yeah gauge and scale length are totally not the only parameters that matter. some brands can't even play well in low tunings while others can. It depends on the materials used and the ratio between core and coating. i really hope that some brand will aknowledge the existence of low tuned metal and start making appropriate sets
They probably don’t. I imagine most string manufacturers see 8 string sets as an afterthought. They make 99.9% of their money on acoustic and electric 6 string sets…
So IIRC most of these sets are relics of the time that 8 string was still new and people didn't have a good idea what to use them for. 09-65 apparently originally came from Ibanez, since they were the first to mass produce 8 strings, and (don't quote me on this, i only found a couple sources about it) it seems to be because on their very first runs, they tuned the 8th string to G instead of F#, to mirror the top 3 strings. 10-74, and the reason why it's the most popular, it's because of the 8 string exploding on the metal scene, and metal guitarists usually prefer higher tension because it feels better to pick and it has better attack, multiscale wasn't a thing yet and 10s feel very taught on a straight 27-28 scale guitar. 09-80s came about because of the 8 string being starting to be used for genres other than metal, people realized it doesn't feel very good playing leads or clean on a 27 inch guitar with 10 gauge strings, so multiscale became a thing. Also, on the metal scene, drop E became a lot more common then straight up downtuning, hence the jump to an 80 for the 8th string, and to this day there's still a lot of people out there that think it isn't enough. Nowadays, with 27 inches being the norm for straight scale, but every brand having a different multiscale, i think companies just don't know how to standardize. And they don't have much incentive to, since 8 strings found their niche and aren't as popular as they used to be in the 2010s. Also, to your point about shorter 8 strings being stupid, you have to remember that the 8 string is a compromise instrument, there is only so much you can do before it loops around to being unplayable again, you make the scale length too short and the 8th string is just absolute flub no matter how thick the gauge. Make the scale length too long and every string *but* the 8th feel and sound awful, no matter how thin the gauge. And if you try to have a multiscale with a very short top scale but very long bottom scale, the fan just gets so wide it's too unconfortable to play (looking at you Agile guitars). Plus, you gotta remember that people are using 8 strings for all sorts of things now, and when it comes to like playing complex chord shapes and stuff, small hands are *very much* an issue for some people. A 27 inch 8 string is like a 24.75 Les Paul or a 24 inch Jaguar, it's not that it's stupid, it just suits some people better. Most people, in this case, there is a reason why your 29 inch M80M is the outlier and not the norm.
Not all of these are correct - this weird 9-80 sets are measured by Daddrio for F# Standard, not drop tuning. It literally says it on the package. Some of the sets I mentioned are designed specifically for multiscales (according to description), yet they offer 84 for F# on 28 inches scale length, which to me sounds crazy. And… 29.4 isn’t long actually. It’s okay. And yes. It is a very specific instrument. But it’s meant to be specific. If long scale isn’t for you, then probably 8 string isn’t for you. There is literally no need to chase lower tuning at any cost. Playing a normal 7 string with 27 inches will sound, feel and play much better than half-backed short 8 string. But I’m primarily a bassist and we like to solve problems - if we need to tune lower, we request longer scale (Dingwall shows up). Guitars tend to request gold hardware or whatnot when they need to tune lower.
@@raljarn They measure the sets at F# because it's the standard tuning, and it's what all guitar companies will ship the guitar tuned to (unless it's Ibanez, who ships in F standard). It's just that they assume that a sizeable number of players will want to drop tune and want to accomodate for that right out of the box, strandberg even says so on the page for their strings which the 84 d'addarios are based on, but they will still ship their guitars in F# standard regardless because it's industry norm. Also, again, compromises, you mentioned the bass side of things, a common complaint of short scale basses is that the strings are too loose and the sound isn't as tight as normal scale, but even so short scales are very much a thing all the way up to professional players. Some people just prefer them, and for some it's all they can handle, i'm not gonna tell my 4'9 sister that she should just give up playing bass altogether just because she has trouble playing on more than 30 inches. Some people just want to play 8 strings because they like the sound it makes and the idea of the instrument, and they shouldn't have to have a guitar that fights against them just because "it's not for everyone".
@@MistuhM dude just look up classical instruments scales. Cellos for example. There are technics how to play them with small hands. Because people teach those instruments properly. And I’ve seen bass players with any hands sizes playing anything on any scales.
@@raljarn It's not really the same though, classical instruments like cellos or violins don't operate on the same level of polyphony as a guitar, it's why you need whole sections of them to play chords, you'll never really see a four finger chord being played on those, at most 2 fingers + open strings. I mean, sure, instruments like those and the bass are more manageable for different hand sizes, but you have to take into account that you won't see as many chords being played on those. Their technique is much more single note focused than the guitar, which is more like a piano in that analogy. But even leaving the ergonomics issues aside, there's still the issue of just making scale length longer overall. Sure, it is the 8 string's fault a bit for entering bass range without fully commiting to being a bass, but you can only really make it so long before it loses the "guitar" part altogether. It's all about finding a middle ground, for you it's 29+, fair enough, but for most people that's a bit too much, and i think that justifies most 8 strings being shorter.
Ibanez 8s used to come from the factory in F, not F#, which was a complaint common in reviews for them, since the 74 was usually said to be flubby. A lot of the reviews of them suggest jumping all the way to an 80, while the rest of the strings were said to be fine.
Finally someone that noticed the huge flaws in some of the 8 string set! Great video! I actually would recommend a great set I found a few months back GHS strings 9-74 set That's 9-11-16-26-36-46-56-74 I still use it until this date! Just be careful where you get the strings from Some places have stored sets and the package can pop open easily, meaning some strings can get rusty before getting to your home :(
Thank you so much for sharing I totaly forgot that GHS existed, I play 8 string but in Drop F# which means i tune every string up 2 step (Exept the 8th) to achive that and the GHS GBXL8: 9-11-16-24-32-42-54-72 on a 27 Inch scale lenght is PERFECT!!!
As for the D'addario 9-65's, I don't think that set is super weird when you realize that lighter gauges work better with longer scale lenths around the 27-28 range. It's necessary to have thicker strings for the lower notes on a shorter scale length, but basically becomes redundant on longer scale lengths.
using thicker strings made me compensate for the mud wayyy too much. switched to lighters and I had to redo the bass settings on all my katana patches haha
I agree that 29.4-30 is the best scale length, I have an M80M and a 30" 9 string. I do think that 27" 8 strings aren't bad, though. A 74 gauge at drop E on 27" has a beefy tone, and while you said that 27" is a scale length for 7 strings, we're in an age where people are doing Drop F on 27" 7s and E is right in that same territory.
I recently went through a similar dilemma of trying to find strings for drop c bass and not a lot of manufacturers care about players that aren’t in different note standards (strings being too tight or too loose)
Dude 30 in scale length is huge and feel weird to fret, specially if it’s not fanned. I have 2 8’s one is 27 in that I use the XL 9-84 so it can actually ring in double drop D and on my 28.5” the standard 9-80. As much as thinner strings are great they are pointless if they can’t ring a note
30 is super ok and feels super ok to fret. I I would even dare to say that fanned guitars are a bit pointless. It makes total sense for basses, if you wanna go beyond 35 inches. But all guitars are relatively short instruments. 9-65 can ring a note on a 30 in F standard. To me going lower than that and using something like 84 sounds like an instrument that doesn’t work at all. Only note that works is an open string and of course palm mutes are dead at this point or at least they are super low end heavy and weird. I would not tune to D even on a 30, I tried all of that. But that’s to my ear and to my feel, if 84 in D is what you want then it’s what you want.
Winspear strings are well worth a look if you haven't already looked into them. Super-long strings that'll work on 30" scales, they feel great, and the sets are all optimised for balanced tension.
Sort of agree. My Blackjack ATX is a bit short with 26.5 scale, what works for me is EB's 9 string set with 8th string removed. Now it's nice and tight.
At long last, the fabled string video! I agree the sets do not make sense for a standard tuning. I play an M80M in drop E and am using the NYXL 9-80. The 80 is comfortable for E but I wouldn't like it at F#.
After you figure out the correct gauge for tuning and scale length you have to factor in the material of metal used for the sound you want. Nickel, Steel, Nickel/Steel, Cobalt, all give different sounds. Shorter scale > thicker gauge Longer scale > thinner gauge But its all personal preference based on playing style. Slinky vs Stiff feel.
The regular 8 string slinky was almost good. I used to play on rather thicker strings but this set make me experiment with thinner ones and after many changes I found my perfect set (EB). It is Mega Slinky: 10,5 - 48 +0.58w +0.74w, multiscale guitar 25,5 - 27" and F standard (half step down) tunning. The extra +0,5 for violin strings add exaclty little more tension I needed while .48w and .58w remaian in perfect balance between tension and intonation, the .74w is pretty standard for the 8th F string. Try this, I am more than happy with the outcome.
that pack is terrible.... a 54 for an E string on a 27" scale???????? actual insanity a string company thought that was acceptable . and a 64 for a b string on a 27" scale.... so terrible
Those tension numbers are funny and random on the daddarios. The 80 was measured with a 30 inch scale length, yet it has less tension than a thinner string (74) on a shorter scale lenght (27) on the other set with same material. That is just plain impossible.
Makes you wonder what percentage of overall sales is made from overpriced strings. Normal 25.5" 6 string electric guitars coming with 46-10 strings(for E standard?), doesn't seem correct to try to learn bends for anyone. Half the sets Ernie Ball sells seem not very practical.
I own short scale bass guitars with thick gauges on them. When they don't fit the tuning peg I unwind a layer off at the tip so it fits. Also are your guitars set up correctly since you're breaking strings constantly?
I talked about Stringjoy also. I basically wasn’t impressed by the quality 5 years ago to really commit into using them. Maybe something changed. But I also want to have string sets available at short notice, because they can break/you might want to change a tuning or whatever. Short notice isn’t something that custom sets like Stringjoy can provide: it’s wait for some weeks against go to the store and buy or get it next day by delivery.
@@raljarn I get mine as a subscription. I don't even have to think about it. I have had one string breaks since using stringjoy and I've been using them since 18-19 to now. I do mostly agree with your video tho. The big brands don't get the big strings right.
@@raljarn yes I see the same all the time. I make sure to stock up when I can. That’s the only 8 string sets I’ve used as it’s the only one that remotely makes sense besides making a custom set with stringjoy
yeah gauge and scale length are totally not the only parameters that matter. some brands can't even play well in low tunings while others can. It depends on the materials used and the ratio between core and coating. i really hope that some brand will aknowledge the existence of low tuned metal and start making appropriate sets
I've had 0 problems with my stringjoy strings with my 6 string in A standard.
100% agreed, it's super weird. It looks like they don't even know what they're doing 🤷
They probably don’t. I imagine most string manufacturers see 8 string sets as an afterthought. They make 99.9% of their money on acoustic and electric 6 string sets…
So IIRC most of these sets are relics of the time that 8 string was still new and people didn't have a good idea what to use them for. 09-65 apparently originally came from Ibanez, since they were the first to mass produce 8 strings, and (don't quote me on this, i only found a couple sources about it) it seems to be because on their very first runs, they tuned the 8th string to G instead of F#, to mirror the top 3 strings.
10-74, and the reason why it's the most popular, it's because of the 8 string exploding on the metal scene, and metal guitarists usually prefer higher tension because it feels better to pick and it has better attack, multiscale wasn't a thing yet and 10s feel very taught on a straight 27-28 scale guitar.
09-80s came about because of the 8 string being starting to be used for genres other than metal, people realized it doesn't feel very good playing leads or clean on a 27 inch guitar with 10 gauge strings, so multiscale became a thing. Also, on the metal scene, drop E became a lot more common then straight up downtuning, hence the jump to an 80 for the 8th string, and to this day there's still a lot of people out there that think it isn't enough.
Nowadays, with 27 inches being the norm for straight scale, but every brand having a different multiscale, i think companies just don't know how to standardize. And they don't have much incentive to, since 8 strings found their niche and aren't as popular as they used to be in the 2010s.
Also, to your point about shorter 8 strings being stupid, you have to remember that the 8 string is a compromise instrument, there is only so much you can do before it loops around to being unplayable again, you make the scale length too short and the 8th string is just absolute flub no matter how thick the gauge. Make the scale length too long and every string *but* the 8th feel and sound awful, no matter how thin the gauge. And if you try to have a multiscale with a very short top scale but very long bottom scale, the fan just gets so wide it's too unconfortable to play (looking at you Agile guitars).
Plus, you gotta remember that people are using 8 strings for all sorts of things now, and when it comes to like playing complex chord shapes and stuff, small hands are *very much* an issue for some people. A 27 inch 8 string is like a 24.75 Les Paul or a 24 inch Jaguar, it's not that it's stupid, it just suits some people better. Most people, in this case, there is a reason why your 29 inch M80M is the outlier and not the norm.
Not all of these are correct - this weird 9-80 sets are measured by Daddrio for F# Standard, not drop tuning. It literally says it on the package.
Some of the sets I mentioned are designed specifically for multiscales (according to description), yet they offer 84 for F# on 28 inches scale length, which to me sounds crazy.
And… 29.4 isn’t long actually. It’s okay. And yes. It is a very specific instrument. But it’s meant to be specific. If long scale isn’t for you, then probably 8 string isn’t for you. There is literally no need to chase lower tuning at any cost. Playing a normal 7 string with 27 inches will sound, feel and play much better than half-backed short 8 string. But I’m primarily a bassist and we like to solve problems - if we need to tune lower, we request longer scale (Dingwall shows up). Guitars tend to request gold hardware or whatnot when they need to tune lower.
@@raljarn They measure the sets at F# because it's the standard tuning, and it's what all guitar companies will ship the guitar tuned to (unless it's Ibanez, who ships in F standard). It's just that they assume that a sizeable number of players will want to drop tune and want to accomodate for that right out of the box, strandberg even says so on the page for their strings which the 84 d'addarios are based on, but they will still ship their guitars in F# standard regardless because it's industry norm.
Also, again, compromises, you mentioned the bass side of things, a common complaint of short scale basses is that the strings are too loose and the sound isn't as tight as normal scale, but even so short scales are very much a thing all the way up to professional players. Some people just prefer them, and for some it's all they can handle, i'm not gonna tell my 4'9 sister that she should just give up playing bass altogether just because she has trouble playing on more than 30 inches.
Some people just want to play 8 strings because they like the sound it makes and the idea of the instrument, and they shouldn't have to have a guitar that fights against them just because "it's not for everyone".
@@MistuhM dude just look up classical instruments scales. Cellos for example. There are technics how to play them with small hands. Because people teach those instruments properly. And I’ve seen bass players with any hands sizes playing anything on any scales.
@@raljarn It's not really the same though, classical instruments like cellos or violins don't operate on the same level of polyphony as a guitar, it's why you need whole sections of them to play chords, you'll never really see a four finger chord being played on those, at most 2 fingers + open strings.
I mean, sure, instruments like those and the bass are more manageable for different hand sizes, but you have to take into account that you won't see as many chords being played on those. Their technique is much more single note focused than the guitar, which is more like a piano in that analogy.
But even leaving the ergonomics issues aside, there's still the issue of just making scale length longer overall. Sure, it is the 8 string's fault a bit for entering bass range without fully commiting to being a bass, but you can only really make it so long before it loses the "guitar" part altogether. It's all about finding a middle ground, for you it's 29+, fair enough, but for most people that's a bit too much, and i think that justifies most 8 strings being shorter.
Ibanez 8s used to come from the factory in F, not F#, which was a complaint common in reviews for them, since the 74 was usually said to be flubby. A lot of the reviews of them suggest jumping all the way to an 80, while the rest of the strings were said to be fine.
Finally someone that noticed the huge flaws in some of the 8 string set! Great video!
I actually would recommend a great set I found a few months back
GHS strings
9-74 set
That's 9-11-16-26-36-46-56-74
I still use it until this date! Just be careful where you get the strings from
Some places have stored sets and the package can pop open easily, meaning some strings can get rusty before getting to your home :(
Thanks! And thanks for Suggestion! Gauges look not bad - will definitely try to find it
Thank you so much for sharing I totaly forgot that GHS existed, I play 8 string but in Drop F# which means i tune every string up 2 step (Exept the 8th) to achive that and the
GHS GBXL8: 9-11-16-24-32-42-54-72 on a 27 Inch scale lenght is PERFECT!!!
As for the D'addario 9-65's, I don't think that set is super weird when you realize that lighter gauges work better with longer scale lenths around the 27-28 range. It's necessary to have thicker strings for the lower notes on a shorter scale length, but basically becomes redundant on longer scale lengths.
using thicker strings made me compensate for the mud wayyy too much. switched to lighters and I had to redo the bass settings on all my katana patches haha
I agree that 29.4-30 is the best scale length, I have an M80M and a 30" 9 string. I do think that 27" 8 strings aren't bad, though. A 74 gauge at drop E on 27" has a beefy tone, and while you said that 27" is a scale length for 7 strings, we're in an age where people are doing Drop F on 27" 7s and E is right in that same territory.
The Baritone Ernie Ball Strings are awesome. For the other 2 strings just ordered 2 that i like
I recently went through a similar dilemma of trying to find strings for drop c bass and not a lot of manufacturers care about players that aren’t in different note standards (strings being too tight or too loose)
Yep, even less options for a Bass…
Dude 30 in scale length is huge and feel weird to fret, specially if it’s not fanned. I have 2 8’s one is 27 in that I use the XL 9-84 so it can actually ring in double drop D and on my 28.5” the standard 9-80. As much as thinner strings are great they are pointless if they can’t ring a note
30 is super ok and feels super ok to fret. I I would even dare to say that fanned guitars are a bit pointless. It makes total sense for basses, if you wanna go beyond 35 inches. But all guitars are relatively short instruments. 9-65 can ring a note on a 30 in F standard. To me going lower than that and using something like 84 sounds like an instrument that doesn’t work at all. Only note that works is an open string and of course palm mutes are dead at this point or at least they are super low end heavy and weird. I would not tune to D even on a 30, I tried all of that. But that’s to my ear and to my feel, if 84 in D is what you want then it’s what you want.
Winspear strings are well worth a look if you haven't already looked into them. Super-long strings that'll work on 30" scales, they feel great, and the sets are all optimised for balanced tension.
Sort of agree. My Blackjack ATX is a bit short with 26.5 scale, what works for me is EB's 9 string set with 8th string removed. Now it's nice and tight.
At long last, the fabled string video! I agree the sets do not make sense for a standard tuning. I play an M80M in drop E and am using the NYXL 9-80. The 80 is comfortable for E but I wouldn't like it at F#.
I sued this set a lot, because there are not many options... But I really don't like the 80... even D#
After you figure out the correct gauge for tuning and scale length you have to factor in the material of metal used for the sound you want.
Nickel, Steel, Nickel/Steel, Cobalt, all give different sounds.
Shorter scale > thicker gauge
Longer scale > thinner gauge
But its all personal preference based on playing style.
Slinky vs Stiff feel.
The regular 8 string slinky was almost good. I used to play on rather thicker strings but this set make me experiment with thinner ones and after many changes I found my perfect set (EB). It is Mega Slinky: 10,5 - 48 +0.58w +0.74w, multiscale guitar 25,5 - 27" and F standard (half step down) tunning. The extra +0,5 for violin strings add exaclty little more tension I needed while .48w and .58w remaian in perfect balance between tension and intonation, the .74w is pretty standard for the 8th F string. Try this, I am more than happy with the outcome.
Good that you've found on! I'm still struggling...
that pack is terrible.... a 54 for an E string on a 27" scale???????? actual insanity a string company thought that was acceptable . and a 64 for a b string on a 27" scale.... so terrible
ernie ball are awful for the price and I say that only playing 6 string guitars
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks they’re awful quality
We need a video series of you in perpetual search of a perfect string set. How is it with bass strings btw?
Even worse :( but we have Dingwalls
Ever tried LaBella?
I actually bought a set recently and it’s now waiting until I waste currently installed set)
Those tension numbers are funny and random on the daddarios. The 80 was measured with a 30 inch scale length, yet it has less tension than a thinner string (74) on a shorter scale lenght (27) on the other set with same material. That is just plain impossible.
Makes you wonder what percentage of overall sales is made from overpriced strings. Normal 25.5" 6 string electric guitars coming with 46-10 strings(for E standard?), doesn't seem correct to try to learn bends for anyone. Half the sets Ernie Ball sells seem not very practical.
I actually use an 8 String pack for my 7 String, because there are no packs out in the market that would fit to my setup. Annoying!
string joy custom set (:
I own short scale bass guitars with thick gauges on them. When they don't fit the tuning peg I unwind a layer off at the tip so it fits.
Also are your guitars set up correctly since you're breaking strings constantly?
That scale is crazy. 26.5 is solid for 10s on a 7-string. 28 is fine on an 8 string. 30" sounds ludicrous to me.
Yeah, you tune your guitar to a bass tuning, while basses usually have 34+ scales. I would say 30 is the least you can do.
Just use Stringjoy.
I talked about Stringjoy also. I basically wasn’t impressed by the quality 5 years ago to really commit into using them. Maybe something changed. But I also want to have string sets available at short notice, because they can break/you might want to change a tuning or whatever. Short notice isn’t something that custom sets like Stringjoy can provide: it’s wait for some weeks against go to the store and buy or get it next day by delivery.
@@raljarn I get mine as a subscription. I don't even have to think about it. I have had one string breaks since using stringjoy and I've been using them since 18-19 to now. I do mostly agree with your video tho. The big brands don't get the big strings right.
I agree. I do think horizon devices has better 8 string sets than anyone else, however they are the exception
They have not-bad looking set 9.5-74, but every time I remember about them - sets are sold out/not available on their site
@@raljarn yes I see the same all the time. I make sure to stock up when I can. That’s the only 8 string sets I’ve used as it’s the only one that remotely makes sense besides making a custom set with stringjoy