Understanding FINAL PROOFING in sourdough bread making. | by JoyRideCoffee
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2020
- Understanding FINAL PROOFING.
The final proofing always caused me problems. At the initial bulk fermentation, the texture and structure of the dough send you some information. You feel the dough in your hands and your hands transmit information to the brain. Then you make decisions.
But the final proofing is like a black box. The dough sits in the basket at a certain temperature and waits for your decision to be baked. You can just look at it. Or you can press it with one finger and not understand anything. Or you can search the internet and get conflicting information.
Legitimate questions arise:
How long do I have to leave it? When is it ready to bake? Do the alveoli open? Are they collapsing? Isn't it overproofing? Won't it be underproofed?
From my point of view, if you have a starter in good condition and you have made a proper bulk fermentation, then the final proofing is just an option, depending on your personal taste.
I used the same strong flour (Molino Verrini type "0") as in the "pair" clip - Understanding Bulk Fermentation - • Understanding BULK fer... .
For 3 loaves:
825g - white flour Molino Verrini type "0"
150g - wholemeal flour720g - water
190g - sourdough starter
22.5g salt
Method: 3 hours autolyse, knead with starter, 30 mins. rest, knead with salt, 30mins. rest, bench strong fold, 30 mins. rest, lamination, 60 mins. rest, first coil fold, 60mins. rest. second coil fold, shaping after 6 from starter inoculation
Loaf 1: Bake with no final proofing
Loaf 2: Bake straight from the fridge after 22h final proofing at 4 deg. C
Loaf 3: Bake straight from the fridge after 46h final proofing at 4 deg. C
Bake as usual on a baking steel for 10 minutes at 240 degrees Celsius with steam and 25 minutes at 210 degrees Celsius without steam.see my baking method here: • Post
If you're like me animated by the same passion, subscribe & comments are most welcome.I have made for my followers a list of essential tools for baking bread at home. These are my personal choices based on experience so far. Remember, buying from these links makes my JoyRideCoffee journey to continue.
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Inspired by:
- Trevor Jay Wilson: / trevorjaywilson
- Kristen (fullproofbaking): / fullproofbaking
Your "unproofed" bread is way better than anything I've ever made 😋😄 !! Thank you for yet another educational video 😊👏🏻
Thank you!
Your videos have changed my sourdough. I share them all the time thank you for all of the info!!
I learn so much from your bread quests! Great music in this one ☺️ You inspire me to bake
Thank you again for an interesting video and to allow us to understand more about bread! It was surpring to me to learn that sourness was small only after 48h.
You are an amazing baker! Love all you posts!
love ur low key videos and your methods, thanks for the inspiration. greetings from thessaloniki, greece.
We all applaud your consistent and consistent results.
Thank you!
This is the video that made me realize i have been overproofing my dough. Thanks a lot!
Wonderful info as with all your videos! Thanks for the posts!
They all look great and probably all delicious!
Very informative ánd inspiring, as always! Thanks for more insight on the breadmaking proces 🙏
Thank you René!
The background music starts BUSTING at 1.5x speed
Adorei a experiência !!!
Very good info, thank you.
Hello i love your videos they make me very happy i wish you all the best
Perfect experimentation! You are into our minds...Well done! (so bulk f. is the most important factor besides a strong starter)
Hi Niki. Indeed bulk is the key.
lovely videos - i am amateur baker following your methods - love it
Thank you!
Thank you.
Thanks for the experiments! Bake #1 with just 6 hrs of bulk ferment, probably has not had adequate time to convert enough starch from the flour and make the bread more heathy to eat with less sugar. Thats why I make S/D - to ingest less converted sugar from starch.
true :) that's the point!
Without final proof bread is fantastic.. For times without time :) very usable
I appreciate the walk-through!! I make mostly quicker breads (2-3 hours) because I’m baking for a hungry family in between my work days. Cold proofing sounds interesting-I’m not sure I could last 46 hours though 😆👨🍳🥖
Awesome experiments！That is my question about the process of proofing. No proofing does not mean underproof and long proofing does not mean sourness. Proofing is very important when we make the soft sandwich bread like Japanese Hokkaido Milk Bread. It is very different from the lean sourdough bread. Thank you for your perfect sharing!
Hi! Great video, like always! Can I ask you a question? I looked for the flour on the site of the mill Verrini, but they have many types of flours "0" can you specify which one you used whit a link, please? Thx ❤️🍞
Would be interested to see an 8 hour proof.
I love this channel.
Your bread is beautiful, so I subscribed.
But for a housewife like me, it is difficult to learn flour milling technology and its types. I'll put off baking for now, please write what "flour 0" is, under what name it can be bought in a regular Canadian store. The same applies to flour 00. On bags of flour in Canada, only the name of the company and the type of flour are indicated - wheat, wheat with or without bran.🤷♀️ I would be very grateful for a simple answer.❤
Hi! You truly make beautiful breads! Can you tell me what flour brand you use? Do you add any gluten? Thanks! I tried your recipe many times and was never able to get such amazing results. :)
It’s wonderful to see a new video of yours! On the topic of proofing I wanted to ask you: do you ever final proof at ambient temperature, either completely or for a short time before a cold, long final proofing? A few recipes I’ve seen do that, but a lot of others don’t, and I was curious whether it is even really necessary considering you don’t do it and your bread looks amazing.
I prefer cold retarded loaves for complexity and balance of taste. But sometimes I want the bread on the same day and I do the proofing at room temperature (2-3 hours) and a very good bread comes out. So it's a matter of your preferences and the schedule you have. Note, however, that scoring is more complicated to do if the dough is not cold.
Crazy question, but who is the musician in the background sound? So smooth! Love your videos and the simplicity of descriptions.
I love that Danish whisk! Where can I buy exactly same Danish whisk? 😍
Hi Joy, thanks again for this nice experiment and great video! How could you get 6h bulk with only 2 coils foil ? Have a wonderful day.
Hi! Early gluten development is mandatory. And you must fit water quantity for the flour.
Someday I will have gentle shaping hands and techniques too! Do you have experience with fresh milled flour? Im using some from a local mill and it proofs incredibly fast! Also has a tighter crumb. I'm concerned about over proofing but don't know if proofing under 4 hours is enough. I proofed at a lower temp my last batch. It continues to bulk even in the fridge overnight!
Awesome experiments video. Very instructive. Thanks a lot for all the efforts and knowledge sharing.
👍🏼
(by the way, I always wonder what are those plastic "caps" you use on your stainless bowl to cover up your dough? 😅)
Take care mate and have an awesome Christmas! 😉
I think it’s a plastic shower hat :)
Hi, I like to know is it ok to use the starter without having to feed first? As I had fed it a couple of days ago and still have some leftover & it has been sitting on the kitchen table at room temperature around 23C? Thanks
Great video! How are you able to prevent the dough from sticking to the banneton after such a long proof? Do you use a different flour? Also do you have a video on the exact methods you use during the baking process? Thanks and hope to hear from you!
Rice flour is your friend.
Hi! Could you please tell me what flour you feed your starter with? Thanks!
Can autolyse be done in the refrigerator overnight? When you performed the lamination, was table surface wet? Thx
I was looking for this piece of info. Thanks for producing this? I was even wondering if bread can be proofed for 3 days or 7 days too?
I just asked that too
Sometimes, if I have a busy week, I prepare a dough for 4 loaves on Sunday and put them in the fridge. Then bake one on the day I need it. It lasted at most 5 days, it did not overproofed but the gluten inside was destroyed and some caves came out. But it was still good. If you want a longer time, I suggest you freeze it (I still freeze them with banetons)
@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee pics (videos), or it didn't happen. 😄
@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee where are you getting your bannetons from? 😊
When bread proofs, there is not only fermentation but enzymatic activity. The first ends up with sugars, the second with gluten net. Besides, cold or retarded fermentation favours acidity, so the more time you keep dough into the freedge the more acid the bread will be. And the less consistent, spongy. You can get rid of gluten degradation by using very strong flour, and reduce acidity by using young levain in less quantity, say 5% total, and doing a shorter bulk fermentation at air temperature.
Hi friend.
How do you store your bread after baking it? How can I preserve the crispy crumb?
Lovely video. But surely, from the description above, you shaped 3½ hours after starter inoculation, not 6. It was 6 hours after the beginning of autolyse. Or perhaps you waited another 2½ hours after the third coil fold before shaping?
thank you. yes, total bulk was 6 hour from starter inoculation. (after second fold I let it untouched until the bulk was complete)
Don't the deep cavernous holes on all 3 loaves suggest underproofing, or do I have that wrong? The 3rd loaf certainly has markers of overproofing though. I take it, loaves 2 and 3 went directly into the fridge after shaping, correct?
yes. directly in the fridge. underproofing or overprofing are just terms. otherwise, as long as the bread is tasty and good-looking for your taste, you can fit it somewhere between these terms. For me, a bread that has a lacy crumb that keeps its freshness for a long time is not a underproofed. Likewise, for me, if it's not sour or collapsed, it's not overproofed.
@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee Just trying to learn. I'd certainly be happy with any of those loaves! Please keep it up.
Hi do you have a video on different methods of strengthening the dough? Slapping versus coil fold?
Not yet! Thank you!
Thanks for the video... You didn't mention how the flavor of bread #2 turned out?? Curious
I would describe it as the most balanced. Complex, strong taste (specific to sourdough breads) but balanced, with an imperceptible sour shade. This type of bread is my favorite.
Did you let the dough reach room temperature before baking it or you just baked it cold?
I'm ***desperate*** to stop those large tunnels you are getting. Any suggestions? I find it so impractical for using when it is like that.
Could you perhaps try to do a video on sourdough sandwich bread ... or baked in a tin, i'm trying to get less of an open crumb for that style of bread :)
I tried these breads - open crumb that fascinates me. I will make other breads as well.
Is there a 3rd coil fold? time doesnt add up
hey! i followed one of your methods and had great bakes! but during the last couple ones, the part where i score the bread (the slit that opens up during baking) stays kind of “flat” and doesnt really have that beautiful round shape, but the other part is usually very nice and round. what am i doing wrong? am i under/overproofing?
Can be overproofing. Did you checked fridge temperature?
Yes , that happens to me too the bread doesn’t have that beautiful round dome shape. I thought it could be due to the low protein level of my four 11.5% ?. I can’t fine flour with higher protein level in my local shop.
Great Video!.......whatever happened to Trevor??
if my fridge keeps 6°C how many hours my final proofing should last?
So if bulk is done correctly you don't have to actually proof the loafes because there is so much gas already inside? It seems like your dough does not rise in the frigde so much. Thanks for an incredible video (:
How much you let it grow in bulk ferment? 30, 50 or 100%?
This looks really interesting, but unfortunately I can't read most of the subtitles as they disappear into the background on most of the shots.
When you see them showing up you can pause the video. But it's a good suggestion to have the subtitles last longer, for sure.
what size of proofing basket did you use ?
Please make brioche or sometype of enriched bread with sourdough
Where does one get those Banneton's?
How do you compare the sourness level of the second and third bread? Is the 48 hour proof more sour than a 24 hour proof? How about a 72 hour proof? 96 hours?
I want super sour bread.
Have you ever heard of bread bakers adding any additives to their bread to enhance the sourness?
You should then bulk ferment at higher temperatures that favor the lactobacilli and the taste becomes more sour.Also use a starter of 1-1-1 kept at high temp also.
I'm on the opposite side, I don't want sour bread. I have not explored in this field but many attempts can be made (from starter, temperatures, leavening times). Bread 3 has a sour but very small hue. I have never used additives.
What is the temperature in your BF process, thanks
An open crumb may look pretty and all, but I prefer a crumb that is well distributed and not so large that it leaves me nothing to chew on...
What is that thing you use to cover the dough at 1:27 ?
shower cap
If I want to add walnuts, when is the best time to add them?
At the lamination stage, I've seen in some videos
@@David-we3sb Thanks.
Is it possible to make sourdough with gluten-free rice flour?
Also my starter had been rising in size for days 1-3 but starting from day 4, I only see bubbles but no rise. What should I do?
Hey... It's been a while... Hope you and your family doing ok
Yep, it's confirmed, you still bake bread that's 99% better than all others regardless of how long the final proof is! Good experiment though. I suspect that for most people it's all about the schedule, when you're going to be in the house. When I make sourdough, it's nearly always late afternoon or early evening the day before, with overnight proof and bake around 11am the next day. Although with a colder house, I've noticed that my starter can be fed late the night before and still be at peak the next morning, so I could change that schedule quite easily over winter. Thanks for the video!
Just use good flour👍🏻
@@MegaFregel I do!
@@ricos1497 should be foolproof then. Lots of times I’ve thought I messed up because I couldn’t bake my bread on my planned schedule but it worked out every time.
@@MegaFregel don't get me wrong, I get decent bread, just those in the video are almost perfect.
@@ricos1497 shouldn’t be decent it should be almost perfect.
WTH happened to your forest? It looks like its gone up in flames?
the forest is still ok. there are some areas that look strange in winter :)
Doing the math.... can you divulge your starter hydration? 100%?
Am I rlly first
okay but all 3 looked the same
OK, I'm going to just say it. I'm skeptical of your results. You're either adding a bunch of sugar in with your flour and/or are doing bulk rise at an elevated temperature or you have some kind of Franken yeast. Baking without proofing would likely not give those results. It would more likely be a hard lump.
The whole video appears overexposed, and the subtitles are illegible. I've never seen this with any of your other videos, and I just checked a couple and they still look fine...
Go away.
What is written there? Couldn't you choose dark font? Video is overexposed itself. Useless
This comments is useless.
@@alex.username this comment is useless or these comments are useless. But grammar apart, try to be more constructive
@@VladimirBlagoderov It's clearly a typo, not a grammar mistake, Mr. Serious, as I was referring to the only and one useless comment: yours. Oh yeah, I'll try to be more constructive. I think I'll learn it from you, since calling a really helpful video useless because of the color of the font is a super constructive way to put it.
@@alex.username It is a poor quality video - overexposed, with unreadable subtitles. The description gives more information than the clip. In this respect it is useless. I am very surprised by the author - other videos are excellent
You should consider talking in your videos.
Hi Guys 😍💋 💝💖