The Rise and Fall of Retractable Hardtops
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2021
- In 2007 it seems every car company had a convertible with a fancy electric retractable hard top, but nowadays they seem to be abandoning them for soft tops. Why did they suddenly become popular, almost 100 years after they were invented, and why are they now disappearing, almost as quickly as they appeared?
Images of the Chrysler Thunderbolt opening are courtesy of Richard Truesdell.
904 WERKS David video about the Toyota Soarer Aerocabin: • 1989 Toyota Soarer AER...
Simon White video about the Honda Del Sol Transtop: • Honda Del Sol TransTop...
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Sources:
www.leblogauto.com/2009/08/be...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges...
www.supercars.net/blog/1941-c...
www.hagerty.com/media/automot...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fa...
velocetoday.com/top-acrobatic...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playboy...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retract...
global.toyota/en/detail/7790394
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_...
3000gtspyderregistry.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...
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Erratum: Georges Paulin didn't of course world for the British Resistance, but the French Resistance (working with the British). My mouth got ahead of me!
can you make a video on tata?????
And no blooper on that 😂
Tata Motors next please
Sorry but on advantages you forgot to mention SNOW. A hardtop is basically a normal car in winter, a softop is definitely not. Also I think the del sol is the only design you showed that addresses the trunk space issue.
In the convertible video, when you did the statistics of hardtop convertibles, you count how many hardtop convertibles were on sale (coming on and coming off sale) in the year (e.g. 2010), not by the end of every year (e.g. 12/2010)?
To be honest… I like how it looks, I hate softtops…
Ye but softtops are lighter
soft tops always look like aftermarket thought done in private garage and it is insane they put it in cars which are expensive....this is alright for cheeky inexpensive cars which are not taken too seriously and should look cute and mostly drive around a city....
@@discozula4469 Hard tops provide better aerodynamics.
Best of both worlds in my opinion. Looks nice when up (unlike most soft-tops) and can still be lowered - being a convertible!
@@discozula4469 and waaayy colder if it’s on your daily!
Idk about everyone else but I prefer a retractable hardtop over a soft top. I’ve had both and I can tell you it’s a whole helluva harder to keep the interior hot or cold with a cloth top. Plus criminals can’t cut a hardtop as opposed to a soft top. Oh and did I mention better roller over protection?!!! Don’t forget wind noise too
When either top is down rollover is the same surely? If worried buy a coupe.
I agree with your other reasons but it doesn't really add much rollover protection since it's usually very light and not structural. I used to drive a VW Eos and it had spring loaded roll bars in the rear headrests that would be deployed in a rollover that along with the reinforced windshield frame could hold the car. The roof was considered expendable in a rollover. I believe many newer convertibles have similar systems.
@@banjopete yes when the top is down there is no difference but when you’re in weather they requires the top to be up, a hardtop provides better insulation
@@PaulN504 that may be the case with a VW but I’m talking from the perspective of a SL. The hardtop in my car is pretty stiff. I’m not saying it will protect you in all situations but is better than a soft top
Just have a car that ass a solid roof, its a loot more practical
Bloody crossovers, soon there will be no estates (wagons), no hatchbacks, no roadsters, no convertibles, no coupes. Choice will be reduced to a black, silver or white crossover\suv. You'd get more choice buying a fridge.
I've got a secret for you, crossovers are station wagons. They just changed the name because nobody wants station wagons.
@@thecianinator Crossovers are just tall hatchbacks. People buy them either because they are boring and just want something that's easier to get in and out of, or because they are dumb and think a tall Nissan Qashqai has the same off-road ability of a Land Rover.
AS LONG AS YOU LIKE A STAINLESS STEEL FRIDGE. GOOD LUCK FINDING A WHITE ONE.
Guys there’s a reason…..
I have a GLA45… For the last 22 years I had wagons, or estate cars as we call them in the UK. Wagons allowed you to carry the detritus of life, boat shit, bike shit, house shit and for some (but not me) kids’ shit. Wagons have gotten bigger and bigger and in UK if you have a Range Rover or Discovery that puts you into a world of using two car parking spaces and being hated by everybody.
Somewhere in the world there is a single journalist who is responsible for the torrent of hate poured onto SUVs and to be honest some can be termed stylish, some are blocky and boxy. But not every one just wants two or four seats and no carrying ability. Mine isn’t even a “high/command” driving position but it’s wonderful to drive and (don’t snigger too much now) it’s better than a Golf R and it’s a million times less nickable as it isn’t desirous to the n’er do well with needs but no money…
So before a raft of hate ours onto me, you tell me what your actual ideal car would that you would buy with your own money?
@@jonbrown6352 yeah a tall hatchback with much higher ground clearence which is very essential in a third world country like mine where the road has a humongous speed bump and will definitely destroy your hatchback undercarriage 🤣🤣🤣
i don't like suv that much but since i need that high ground clearence leaving me no choice
As a former owner of a Triumph Spitfire with a bolt-on hard top, I concur that they are way quieter and make for a more refined and rigid drive. Let's hope in a few years you make a video on the embarrassing craze that was the SUV.
Amen!
@@BigCar2 I'm quite certain you could do that now, no need to wait.
As a former owner of a 60's convertible Triumph as well, and also several German and Italian modern convertibles I can tell you that your information on convertible tops is obsolete and for today's convertibles it is incorrect.
Back in the days of Spitfire convertible soft tops were absolutely horrible: thin, horrible mechanism, dismal sealing, horrible aerodynamics, plastic windows, etc. etc. etc. A bolt-on hard top is also very different to a convertible hard top.
Nowadays soft tops have multi-layer construction and many have composite panels inside too, they have excellent mechanisms, glass windows, and their aerodynamics and sealing is great. It's impossible to make precise blanket statements as anyone with nefarious motives could pick a bad pairing as an example (eg. Lexus hard top vs. Fiat soft top, or the other way: Rolls-Royce soft top vs. Renault hard top), but overall nowadays hard tops are not "way quieter" as both solutions are adequately quiet (depending only on the manufacturer's desire to increase the cost and put in weight).
What can in fact be said very certainly is that soft tops make a more refined and rigid drive. Soft tops allow the car's structure to be strengthened more without having the added huge weight and compromises in structural design (hard tops need the body shape to be designed to minimise roof size and be compromised massively to enable a space big enough to store it). Soft tops are lighter so they create less inertial movement within the roof structure compared to the rest of the body and they also have less inertia to create movement in the whole car. In short: soft tops allow the cars to be better.
Lol. SUV are here to stay boomer.
That’s utter rubbish have you ever been in a Mercedes convertible with a metal roof
I got one of the first SLKs brand new in late 1998 (as a 99 model). I remember putting the top down in public... crowds would gather. It was really a spectacle that nobody had ever seen before.
Thanks for sharing ! Must’ve been a cool moment. What was your color combo!?
@@prabeeshsidhu Black with oyster interior.
I hope the horrible rest of the ownership experience was worth that moment of attention.
@@pistonburner6448 It was a great car. Never gave me any trouble and a lot of fun to drive. I put almost 100k on it from new and outside of regular maintenance the only issues it ever had was a motor mount needed replacing at like 60k and a parking brake interlock at like 45k.
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg Same can be said about a Dacia Sandero. Sorry to be blunt, but the SLK was a particularly abysmal example of a car compared to any relevant benchmarks.
here is my hot take: with a soft top everybody sees you have a cabriolet, even when its up.
It's easy to identify a coupe cabriolet with top up as well. Can't hide the seams between the retractable roof elements!
@@LRM12o8 yeah but there are people that have no clue. if they see the fabric its a 100% give a way. Many people couldnt believe my BMW e93 was a convertible either until I dropped the top
@@xantor_ When I was looking to buy a Peugeot 207 CC from my neighbour, it was only when I got home to do some research on it that I found out it was a convertible. I was sold on the car before knowing it was a convertible, but discovering that was a very pleasant surprise. I still have it and love it very much.
@@HarmonicaMustang I had a 1:16 model of a 206cc back when I was a kid. Fell in love with hardtops ever since
You may have explained the popularity of the "tonneau" vinyl top most American sedans and coupes had in the late 70s and early 80s.
My boss bought an SLK when he sold the company.
It was pretty impressive. Merc got lots of things right that others got wrong.
- The remote control would operate the roof, and it was smooth and looked cool.
- Open tops need to have a different wind-flow pattern, otherwise you get dirt and wind in your ear when driving at speed, or a whirlwind behind your head.
- The chassis needs to be much stiffer.
- The interior needs to be different - more waterproof and easier to clean.
- The dashboard needs to be different, or you can't see the dials when the sun shines on them.
It's just an SLK. You want stiffer chassis, buy an AMG variant
Well said!
TOO BAD THE NEXT SLK WILL BE A SOFT TOP...
AND LOOK LIKE TOO MANY OTHER MERCEDES. THE END OF AN ERA.
@@MICHGO1 the soft top turned out really well imo
Heh, SLKs are famously pretty horrible things.
I like Hard Tops; they look great as I never liked the mismatched materials of a soft top. With me being young I never even thought they were a trend. I just thought they were as prevalent as soft tops. It's a shame to see them go.
The ferrari Portofino is gorgeous. Hard tops can look incredible when done well
I bought my SLK 230 in July 2013. Even now, 8 years later I love looking at the car parked next to me in a parking lot so I can watch the top work in the reflection. :)
The VW Eos roof is an engineering masterclass, as it also has an opening tilt and slide glass sunroof!
Indeed! So complex yet so unreliable! In my case that is 😃
@@Elmantukas Brian Cooley rebadged it, by replacing E with a P
I think the Eos is the only production car that had a operational sunroof as well as a PRHT. I absolutely love mine! With the top up you would never know you were even in a convertible.
@@markb3756 I think it was done so the owner doesn't feel too bad when the top gets stuck in the closed position.
@@Elmantukas the “yet” made the resulting sentence give me the giggles :)
I'm hoping in about 10 years you will have a video on the SUV fad that needs to disappear ASAP.
Agreed, but it won't. Perhaps in 50 years.
Why would they? So much better than a sedan.
If I want a good handling car I'll get a coupe. A sedan and all cars just cant compete for what I want and many others cause they are just too impractical and too low to the ground. Just walk around a parking lot and see all the cars with curb rash on the rims and scraps and dents on the bumpers.
No thank you.
Amen to that! No more mums on the school run in Nissan Quashimodo's who can't drive anything larger than a Toyota Yaris!
SUVs are for people with little driving ability and a big ego, unaware of how silly they look. The empereror's new clothes on wheels.
@@petersimpson5859 I totally agree with you. ive lost count of the number of times I have seen a mum on the school run in an SUV covered in scraps and with scuffed wheels, usually driving with the door mirrors still folded inwards!
On top of that some cars are easily totaled when they get a rearimpact with the hardtop in the boot.
That happened with a work colleague's car. He had a Volvo C70 and, while picking his kids up from school, someone ran into the back of his car. The impact was sufficient to put the roof mechanism out of true. Uneconomical repair, according to the insurance company, so was classed as a write-off.
@@davidrobinson4400 still love the c70 though
Not related to the roof, but I had rear-ended another car in my 2001 SLK320. :( After repairing the front end (they had to take the engine out), they discovered the crankshaft had been hit, so the engine was also needed to be replaced. The insurance company had paid for the bodywork, so it covered the engine rather than total the vehicle. Ended up being a $28K repair. I loved that car, and it was hard to give it up.
Working in a garage there’s always a sense of dread when they come in with the roof mid cycle or not working.
I rented one via car sharing and it got stuck midway. While waiting for the truck to come and pick it up I realized trying to fix this must be like working on a huge limb cutting machine.
btw they never returned the car to their pool of cars after that, probably a write-off
Must be fiddly to rig all the microswitches on a folding roof. I imagine everything has to be set up to close tolerances.
Had a guy shatter the rear windshield on a Camaro top because he didn't install the replacement support brackets correctly 🙃 That's a $1200 mistake
Not going to name models that you have seen like this? Enquiring minds want to know...
One thing I thought I would hear is panoramic sunroof options, they are now huge and whilst not the same as a folding soft/hardtop it gives a huge amount of air and light, I always spec a car with this when I can, best option (IMO). Great video as ever! 👍🏼👍🏼
unfortunately most manufacturers, especially EV ones, these days offer closed glass roofs, like Tesla, Nio.... Probably for weight saving/range increase
My 2011 Volvo C70 thanks you for this overview. I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of it, it’s irreplaceable
The value is only going up from here, especially if you have a 5cyl engine. Might aswell hang on to it.
came here to mention my own 2011 C70 💜
I'm so sorry it's irreplaceable, that's a really unfortunate situation. Have courage, maybe some day you'll be able to save up enough money to buy a new car to replace it even if you can't get any money from selling that old C70.
Luv my 2009 C70 can’t imagine life without it, and it’s Summertime!
My Z4 retractable hard top is great, it doesn't go green like my previous Z's soft top. However when a hydraulic line split it cost me £1300 to fix. At least with a manual you can pull it up in 10 seconds, even when driving.
As the owner of a soft top I do envy the improved refinement on the motorway hardtops offer. And it would be nice to feel as safe parking anywhere as you do with a hardtop.
I agree with you. I had soft tops that were destroyed by idiots who want to steal my car.That's why I am driving a hard top convertible now.
What improved refinement on the motorway? Another commenter with totally outdated misconceptions.
@@pistonburner6448looks better and feels more ridged
@@juliet4093 For her pleasure?
The section from 2:08 to 2:18 has been blurred because these images are copyright. The copyright holder has just informed me.
Update - this has been resolved amicably.
How do they notify and find it that quick?
They watch my videos.
@@BigCar2 Sorry to hear this happened. Still a great video without that clip. :-)
And they actually think you're depriving them of income? Whatever.
All of the images are copyrighted. It’s called fair use
loved the look of the original SLK ever since I saw it in gran turismo 3. probably the only convertible I'd ever buy really
Another brilliant and well researched video!!
This morning I was wandering when the next video will be up, 5 hours later, here it is!!
Coincidence or great customer service......
At the moment I release new videos every other Friday, so here it is!
@@BigCar2 sorry, bmw 4 soft top is only 10 kg lighter than older hard top, I compared 420i models....
The Nissan Micra CC was indeed a odd car...but even a Mitsubishi Colt CZC, could never win a beauty contest🤣
The Micra CC is a lovely little first car.
Micra, Colt and Tigra are total affronts to aesthetics.
Fun fact, the Colt CZC was based on a rejected Mk2 Fiat Punto hard-top concept (known as the Fiat Wish)
Check out the mazda 131 convertible
Same for the Ford Focus Coupe Cabrio from Bertone. The dimensions weren't right.
I drove and loved the last generation Volvo C 70, in my view one of the most beautiful 4 seater convertibles, as it looked like a coupé closed with all the right proportions (no oversized boot) and just beautiful open.
Indeed. Its a great shame Volvo killed off the C70 and traditional estate cars in pursuit of the trend for SUV's
Ditto, and still have my 2011 C70. Nothing to replace it. The other benefit of Hard Top is Canadian winters. They deal better with snow although I did, once, to shut off an alarm have to retract and raise the roof when is was -30 C.
I have a 2009 MX5 PRHT. The roof folds down vertically in 12 seconds into a space between the seats and the trunk which still has enough room for a set of golf clubs. The biggest advantage vs. a soft top is less chance of vandalism and theft via a slashed roof.
Just put some concrete in the boot and be done with it, manual roof folds down in about 2 seconds and is far lighter, live in a better area of town if you don’t want your roof slashed.
Mazda's PRHT is fucken bullet proof, been daily driving my 2010 in Snowy Manitoba for 10 years, it has 260,000 the top has been up and down at least 300 times per year.
One Time, I had to red locktite some adjument nubs.
If someone is willing to cut through a soft top, what's stopping them from throwing a rock through the window?
Have an 07 prht, great car. I love the heard top version as opposed to the soft top as the car feel more solid when the roof is up when compared to the soft top. Have driven both but the prht was much nicer.
@@kisong1960 Um... most cars have sound sensors for the alarm and immobilizer.
Rocks and glass smashing make noise.
Glass gets everywhere and leaves evidence behind.
A knife through a soft top is almost inaudible, doesn't trigger the alarm, and leaves behind no evidence.
I have had a VW Eos for about 6 years as a weekend car and I love it. The roof looks just as good down as up and the large sunroof makes the low headspace feel much more open when the roof is up.
Maybe if you are mechanical moron it may not be the car for you, but a little bit of regular maintenance to lubricate the seals and pulleys and clean the roof drain holes and channels is all that is required to keep it working perfectly with no leaks.
I really cannot see myself getting rid of it for many years as there is simply nothing to replace it with. It’s small size, hard top, 2 litre turbo motor and six speed manual transmission makes it great fun.
I didn’t buy an eos because the reliability of the retractable roof was poor and required specialist repairers.
The Nissan convertible with the glass roof was fine but the engine was not reliable.
The BMW 420i convertible is great so far touch wood but it is 8 years old now so I am a little worried about all those plastic parts under the bonnet.
Hard tops much easier to clean with bird problems.
I have owned an EOS from new for 17 years and it looks as good as new. The boot space is fairly generous even with the roof down but if you need to use all of it, not to worry, you have a glass sunroof at your disposal too. It was my daily runner for over a decade and has proven to be quite reliable. I am slightly disappointed it was not mentioned in the video.
I love these videos they cover so many obscure but important car stuff that most others never get into - cracking research
Even now the first Mercedes SLK looks really good where others look like a wedge
I agree if you want a reasonably priced, secondhand or new, classy, fast, well made sports car, get an SLK
The Mk2 (pointy nose) was the best. Had two. Drive reasonably well above 30mph (feel a bit vague and disinterested below that) and sounded great with the V6 engines. Not too much buffeting with the hood down.
One of the few cars ever made that always look good, from every angle, through any time.
Germanic midget car, fitting only for 2 people who are definitely on the small stature size. I am 6 foot 4 inches, years ago the MB salesman was laughing himself silly how I could not even sit into one of their SLKs, let alone test drive one. He even states that the car was for Europeans who are smaller.
@@frankfarago2825 ha ha ha
Get a F150. Oh, you have already one?
A couple of more advantages to retractable hardtops that are a huge part of the reason why I'm not interested in trading my Z4 for the newer softtop version:
1) Much smaller c pillars. This not only greatly improves the looks when the top is up, but on a smaller model makes a huge difference in the size of the side window space. A small softtop car often has downright lousy side visibility with the top up.
2) Durability. The hardtop will last just as long as any other part of the bodywork while softtops will fade, crease, and wear out no matter what you do to take care of them.
I just bought a used retractable hardtop and it's awesome. Although the reason I bought it wasn't mentioned in this video. It's because I like convertibles but I don't have a garage. Around where I live I've watched street parked soft top convertibles just rot away over the years, and I didn't want that.
Car people tend to forget not everyone has a garage, I always get hit with that ;S
Love my 2013 MX5 with retractable hardtop.
I've got an Mx5 RF and I love it, from the elegant way it goes up and down electronically, the look,whether it's up or down and the reduced road noise and enhanced security it provides .
I think Top Gear really called it when they did their Cool Wall segment with the 206 CC: The auto-hardtops had always been a fashion accessory, so their appeal dropped off as soon as they became common. The companies that introduced them got rich off the temporary fashion and publicity, but you can’t be in fashion forever - and from an actual performance and practicality standpoint, hardtops are an objective handicap. The humble and simple MR2S manual softtop, with 2 latches for when it’s up and just one for when it’s down, remains as the perfect convertible implement.
I love how the older ones look with the clip on hard top. Reminds me of vintage lotus design.
Very nice, I myself like the Volvo C70 which looks great both ways too.
I always liked the 3rd gen version of the MX5 convertible with the PRHT. Another one I've always liked, is the Volvo C70, also with PRHT.
Yeah ive got a mx5 nc2 PRHT, takes only 11 seconds to go up or down
Big thumbs down for the NC mx5, terrible car. Especially with that silly heavy roof.
@@printedprops8730 so about 4 times as long as the manual roof on the NB then.
@@Jabber-ig3iw yeah but you get a hard top and not a piece of cloth over your head.
The prht is great because it lets you drive around with your hard top without the need of going home and putting your hard top on as you would need to do with the NA, NB and the normal NC model.
I think they were both designed by Webasto. They designed a lot of these, actually, including the Eos, 3 Series & Z4, Ford Focus, Ferrari California, Daihatsu Copen, and the MX5 RF.
As an open top lover, I'll take whatever I can get, sunroof, moonroof, targatop, softtop or retractable hardtop. The problem is that the market is just too small. Most people don't want to spend extra for an open top of any kind. They've got A/C and that's all they need. I want both. I insist on A/C, but I'll pay extra for an open top if I can get it.
I want a convertible wagon!
I totally respect your liking for open tops of whatever form. I just wish I understood it.
For me, I find there seem to be almost zero times I can even enjoy a sunroof open (or even the shade covering the glass) let alone having a convertible top down.
Either the sun is angling down into my eyes (behind my sunglasses), or it's either too hot or too cold out. Any of the above 3 scenarios makes me want everything above my head shut / closed.
@@be5952the droptop mafia is going to chime in here... if you're too hot, you're not going fast enough!
@@glurak888Dodge made a convertible pickup truck
Great video my friend. I saw that you had the Peugeot 206, convertible and it brought back memories of my nephew. That was his dream car, especially the convertible roof. He finally saved up to buy it second hand from a lady. He had it for only two months, when he crashed and passed away in it, driving home one night on August 31st 2014 from working late at his job. Sergio Montano was his name. He was just 20 years old.
Sorry for laying it on thick, the picture you showed is his favorite colour too, silver.....
Thanks again for your great video.
Uncle nick. Trinidad and Tobago
The deeper you love the longer you grieve. Sorry for your loss.
10:10 You forgot the biggest reason why hardtops are better: the car actually looks good with it on. I have not seen a single softtop car that looks good when the top is up, they are usually ugly and look disfigured. Some are okay, but with a hardtop they would look great.
911 Targa lol
Targa is a hardtop. :D
Corvette is a hardtop.
Aventador is a hardtop.
@@brien1254 A Targa is not a converible to begin with, it's a TARGA.
The MX-5 NC has a super simple power retractable hard top, and it wont take any boot space. The car looks amazing with the roof up or down.
I have the ND RF and it doesn't take up any boot space either. It sits in a space just behind the passenger compartment.
That said, as noted, the ND RF is more of a "Targa Top" than a full convertible. So there's less "roof" to hide away.
@@petermerchant4439 I do love the looks of the ND RF too. I know hard tops are bit heavier than the soft tops, but for those of us who daily their roadsters, the added security is necessary IMO.
I did get light wheels, flywheel, suspension and exhaust to compensate for the added weight. It's been a slow process, but it's totally worth it IMO.
Speaking about the roof mechanism on the SLK, the 1st gen Daihatsu Copen Kei Car improved the roof mechanism by a lot since it was designed by the original SLK roof designers and Webasto
Great show as always -looking forward to your next. Keep 'em coming please.
Best of both worlds in my opinion. Looks nice when up (unlike most soft-tops) and can still be lowered - being a convertible!
Once again Thank You ... made me & many others smile here as I read hundreds of comments seeking any mention of the 2003 -2006 Chevy V-8 SSR power retractable 2 door hardtop pick-ups. Bought my purple 2004 off show room floor . Went cross country in winter ...only put top up in rain or to sleep . With top up or down , still has same length lockable pick-up bed . Again , thank You for all Your efforts !
I ve had a vw eos for over 10 years and i really love it. It s way more practícal than it seems
I love the retractable hard top on my 2014 SLK. It's brilliant!
I wish we would buy what we wanted and not what the marketing men tell us to. I love my now ageing Volvo C70, it's safe, secure and in a British winter, warm and windproof. Only a hard metal roof can do that. I really am gutted that there is nothing affordable to replace it with.
Yeah, I love my C70! :D
The second generation retractable hard top C70 is a gem. A joint venture with Pininfarina.
Volvos are great
Pity the plastics on them suck.
My C70 D5 is 15 years old and has 150k miles. It looks a feels like a car half its age. I love it but I am, also, disappointed about the lack of choice nowadays.
Such a great video - thanks - and I LOVE the Soarer's buzzers and warning chimes !!
Great video bro.. The research you do is amazing thanks 👍
The '57 Ford Skyliner was the first electric driven, mass produced retractable hardtop.
It's interesting that they never did it with the t bird or the lincolns or mercurys of that era.
I love my 4 series cabrio with its hard top. It has so many checks from a practicality point of view that I think it is one the best coupes ever made. Nice looking car, with fair enough space for four adults and more than 300 hp.
I'm merely two minutes into this video but I've already had the urge to come here and say what a great video this is!
The R230 SL Class is to me one of the most beautiful cars out there ever. It looked so good both with the top up as down.
I love my 2012 mx5 retractable hard top. It takes up the same amount of space as the softtop would, doesnt take up any truck space when retracted, and looks so much better.
"A Rover P6 pretending to be a Batmobile"... Love It 😁
The Best Channel for any car enthusiast
I worked for ASC in the 1990s, including on the Mitsubishi 3000 Spyder, mostly on the latches. The concept was sold to Mitsubishi by the marketing department with little regard to the complications introduced by trying to fit hard, load-bearing panels held together by latches and hinges. Early prototype testing resulted in lots of failed latches and hinges. This was eventually resolved by putting interlocking features in the panels themselves to better transfer the loads. There was also an issue with crash testing. The original boot cover was very rigid and would push right through the rear seat area; under those conditions it was very dangerous to rears seat passengers when the top was down. It was almost like a horizontal guillotine! This was fixed with retention hooks at the front and crumple zones designed into the otherwise very stiff composite boot cover. There were also issues with electromagnetic interference with the relays and solenoids inducing voltages into the switch and sensor wires, "confusing" the control electronics into to simply stopping in the middle of retraction. A very expensive electromagnetic environmental effects consultant had to be brought in to fix those glitches. ASC had done a lot of soft tops but the company had no idea what it was getting into the the Spyder hard top. Ironically the Eclipse soft top was one of the very best made by the company.
5:30 amazing idea though
I hadn't realised how long ago retractable hard tops were invented, thanks for educating me :-) I wonder if another advantage of retractable hard tops is rigidity. I could feel the difference when I fitted the hard top to my cabriolet over winter, not night and day but there was a difference.
Well researched and presented, thank-you.
High quality content - thanks.
I owned a Volvo C70 before and now a BMW 330 with a retractable hardtop.
I think it is a great concept: you can switch from a coupe to a convertible within 20 seconds.
They are aimed to be fun cars, not practical, although 4 adults will fit but trunk space is limited.
You know that before buying and if you can live with it, they are great cars to drive and perform well with top up or down.
The retractable hardtop on the Mazda MX-5 NC was great. The only slight issue was you had to stop the car and it took 12 seconds. A manual soft top instantly goes up or down and you can almost do it on the move or at a junction.
Some "soft tops" these days are a hybrid. Soft fabric on the outside with a hard headliner.
Great video! I've had a few hard top and soft top convertibles. The hard top ones more often than not look 'odd' side on, the smaller cars looks hideous and even the mx5 NC folding hardtop just looks wrong side on..... I think the most beautiful folding hard top is the e89 BMW Z4, it looks wonderful roof up or down from every angle and the mechanism is a work of art (used by Ferrari too!).
I really like your channel..and a great narrating voice unlike other channels
Thanks Frank!
That Del Sol "retractible" / removable top is nice ! I'd MUCH rather own a retractible hard top than a soft top. It's just nicer, to me, but I'd think purists dislike them ?
EDIT : I didn't know there were motorized soft tops, and that the material is stronger now. The motorized part is what I like... If I were to own a convertible.
_That_ is not what I expected a car made by a company named _Playboy_ to look like.
More like _Playtoy._
*Some points about hard tops and convertibles in general:*
Sales numbers isn't just about consumers not wanting such body styles - the economy and marketing are big factors.
The small storage spaces doesn't make a car less usable. It's just less practical, in the eyes of people who skew this way.
The increase in family trucksters (SUV) isn't consumer demand but increased marketing towards a car that's priced higher than it costs to produce when compared to other car body styles.
Almost 40 cars later, I yet have to own a cab. Great video!
3:25 no, the Peugeot 402 Eclipse is the first electric one :)
I thought the 4series comparison was a bit off since the MX-5 comes as a hard and soft top in the same generation I thought that it would be a better comparison.
The video is really informational and I enjoyed watching it keep it up!
Thank you Brilliant. Your unbiased detail of a car history is great.
Is there a Celica one :)
Good video with lots of examples of quirky cars I’ve never seen. Thank you. To add to why more companies are moving away from hardtops - complexity and reliability / cost of repairs. Being an owner of an out of warranty Bmw 3 series convertible hardtop, I know a bit about it. Still, I wouldn’t buy a soft top (had one of those as well) unless I had a garage / covered paring space.
Respect to you for the subtitles sir.
I write a script, so it's only a little extra effort. Glad it helped!
@@BigCar2 It's very helpfull when it's the name of a very obscure car designer like Ben P. Ellerbeck.
@@BigCar2 Thank you anyways. Not many CZcamsrs do this you see. Makes watching at night much easier.
@@lakrids-pibe True.
@@bragadeeshbalakrishnan It helps not only those who are deaf, but also people who don't speak English, as the auto translated subtitles are more accurate.
Love my MX-5 with a soft top. Light, and quick to put up or down in two seconds with one hand. Wouldn't want it any other way 👍
My favorite manual soft-top story comes from a friend of mine...
She bought an old Chrysler Lebaron convertible. One day there was a sudden rainstorm and she pulled over to the side to put up her top. A BMW Z-3 pulled over as well. The guy reached back, grabbed the soft-top to pull it forward and...it got stuck. He pushed it back, pulled it forward, it got stuck. He started swearing as he frantically tried to get his top up. Meanwhile, my friend pressed the button and the top smoothly went up.
She thought, "...and you paid how much for that car?"
Yeah yeah, I know. All manual convertible tops are easy to put up. Until the rain starts pouring down and you want to get out of the rain and you don't necessarily provide an "even pull" because water is pouring down on you and something jams which makes you even more frantic.
Granted, I have a shoulder issue that makes it hard/painful for me to reach back and pull the top up. But even when I didn't, I still went with electric tops.
Having currently got major issues with a 4 series retractable
hard top - i'm glad they're going material again..
Fantastic video and topic!!
Glad you enjoyed it Glen!
I've had 5 SLK's, starting with a 230 in 1998 up to my current 350. They've been fantastic cars, perfect for what I want, and I've never had to think what car do I want next, as I just waited for the upgrade model. I'm therefore really sad that they've discontinued it, and it's going to be hard choosing my next car. I'm dangerously tempted to buy a used Ferrari California, which I think are brilliant, but I've been scared off by the maintenance costs!
I’ve had 2 SLKs and currently have a 2017 SLC. All three have been great cars. I’m planning on keeping my SLC until I’m too old to climb in and out of it!
SL it is then
I am a happy owner of a 308cc and, since I live in Brazil, that security factor of the vandalism was a very important matter for my decision!
I seriously LOVED this video! I already liked your storytelling skills (and praised them previously! xD)!
God bless you and your family! Keep up this excelent work! Cheers!
Thank you for the video!
You’re welcome Piter
Great job on the video. As much as I’m a fan of convertibles I’m more into rag tops which are a lot lighter, simpler and takes up far much less space.
The reason I bought my Chevy SSR - that really cool retractible roof. OK, part of the reason, the other part was looks and performance, w/ the 6L engine and a great suspension for road handling. I've been tempted to sell it a few times, but haven't seen another vehicle I like as much. Owned it since 2004 and the only change I've made is color - it came banana yellow and I changed that to an aqua marine, w/ a little pearl in the clear-cote. I've only had to replace one of the actuator motors, in the 17 years I've owned it.
Great vehicle! Keep it forever!
The chevy ssr looks like a ball of puke with headlights it's ugly
@@scottdawson6851 nobody asked your opinion
The SSR is one of my favorite cars ever, I hope to own one eventually
I gotta admit, the only truck I've ever considered was a Chevy SSR. I've pretty much always had convertibles my whole life and the idea of a convertible truck was just an awesome idea.
If I ever got a convertible it would be a hardtop, I absolutely despise the way most soft-tops look.
What about new bmws 3-4 series. Superb ugly hardtop.
@@NoName-md5zb exception than the rule
I own a 2012 BMW E93 Hardtop convertible and its one of the best things to ever exist. Looks like a coupe with its roof closed and top down driving through mountain roads hearing the engine is the best feeling ever.
That Honda is insane! another enjoyable video thank you.
You're welcome
When my dad brought home a Z8 in '02 I thought it was lame that it didn't have an automatic hardtop convertible roof, now I appreciate that it doesn't. Would've ruined the car.
Great vid. I hate the looks of almost all those cars, cos the proportions are wrong with a too big rear end. I do love the new Porsche Targa.
Excellent and informative vid. Our Tigra took a bit of attention, but now works fine. Nobody has mentioned this, but I think the fact that our children loved Transformers was a bit of a factor in our, much later, purchase! In many ways it's a terrible car, tiny cabin and huge blind spots, but we love it!
Great Content
Another thing which is good about hardtops is the visibility. The 2014-2019 BMW 4 series cabriolet (hardtop) has more window area ( rear window and rear side windows) and thereby making the general driving in city more convenient. I do still prefer the hardtop design because of its design, not looking like it is covered by a sheet of fabric but instead being a cabriolet in disguise.
Thanks for the informative video 👍🏽
That is a significant difference. If you look at the roof-up over-the-shoulder and rear visibility in the SLK vs. soft-top contemporaries such as the TT or the Boxster, the Merc is far superior.
I would love to see a story on Apple Carplay and Android Auto, possibly as a "Little Car" video. I think it would be interesting to look into their history, their development, and how they became one of the features we take for granted in today's cars. Think about it! :)
😀 I'd like to do that, but I didn't think there would be much interest. My background is in In Car Entertainment software design (I hit up my Microsoft friends to do the Ford SYNC video). That would be a very fun one to do!
@@BigCar2 I'd be interested to see it too.
@@BigCar2if you do do this, be sure and call out google for abandoning phone only mode for android auto... it's like they want us classic car drivers, bicyclists, and motorbike enthusiasts to just get a brand new car...
nothing beats the beauty & low gravity of a soft top
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Cool LEGO collection.
Copen. :)
Smallest car in the world with a retractable hardtop.
I love it. 🚘
Love my little Copen. The closed top squeaks & rattles; open it takes almost all the boot. Basically a 1 person road trip car. Kinda wish it had a soft top so I could bring a 2nd person on road trips / more than 13L boot space. The top is always down when I drive it. On rainy days I drive my estate with a big glass roof. Plan to keep my Copen for many more years, decades.
Megane 2 CC , pleasure of driving is top!Yes,it's a havy weight car....
And getting drips on your arm every time you go round a corner after it has rained!!!
My NC series MX-5 is a PRHT model, 2008 model, I've never had a peep of trouble with it, 12 seconds transition time, and I love people's eyes popping when I use it!
I haven't noticed any of the disadvantages you pose, the hardtop goes behind the seats, the boot is exactly the same capacity as the rag-top, and a real, lined steel roof cannot be beaten in rainy or cold weather. And my six-speaker BOSE sound system doesn't have to turned up two notches, either...
I own a 2007 SLK55 AMG (when they still put large, normally aspirated V8's in their cars), and it is a MONSTER. I love dropping the top at the touch of a button. This car STILL gets 'thumbs up' and headlights flashed when I take it out for a spin. I will never, EVER part with this car.
I saw this video through Patreon and it was very informative, hope everyone watching is having a great day!
If only they sold the BMW 4 with a good looking front end!
BMW HAS LOST IT'S WAY.
BMW is dead to me!
When I see one of their new models on the road, I get an instant reflex to close my eyes. They're so hideous that it's actually dangerous!
The way the roof and the windshield and the trunk lid are stacked over each other with the correct curvature ( so like stacking bowls ), I wonder why a soft top can be compressed into a more compact space without doing harm to the fibers. Just look into any racing sail boat with different sets of sails stored in the hull. Also the rear window seems to be made of glass anyway.
Always like your videos. It seems to be a rarity anymore these days, a calm, cool, collected car guy. Since you talked about the used market for hard top convertibles, i have a couple of questions for you: 1. Which do you think is the best model? 2. Are there any that have a manual override operation in case the automatic motors and doo dads give out? Also, a couple of comments: it would be interesting to see depreciation curves and appreciation curves of classic convertibles and hard top convertibles for a compare and contrast. Item two, most "car guys" don't like theblook because it tends to make the back end of the car look bigger, but to each their own. Lastly, there *are* some rare convertible suvs that look ok and were reasonably successful. I'm thinking of the Jeep Wrangler here, but there were many copycats.