I personally would prefer just dynamically posed but grounded models. Imo flight stands and "floating" poses should be reserved for units that are mostly or always flying. Like Gargoyles, Landspeeders, Scourges, etc. But in the end there's no perfect way like you've said.
All of those models use "Flight stands". Clear plastic rods that allow those models to float. What we see here are models who ARENT always in the air, but still have the ability to fly. And so; you get these rocks that help sell the illusion of jump-packs.
@@LinkiePup depending on edition rules, tactical rocks stop your jump assault troops from using cover. They become too tall. I dont think jet pack units should be floating at all.
tactical rocks dont look bad with proper basing. GW uses minimalistic bases in their promo pictures so people can clearly see everything included with the model, which makes the tactical rock stand out instead of naturally blending it with the base.
this is why I have no issues with it as my basing for my salamander to mostly me painting cracks of lava on the black bases themselves. In my case at least the rocks add to the design rather then stand out.
And what is with people that don´t wanna do "proper" basing? That just wanna have like a simpel base? Everyone can always model a bit of tactical rock to their model and change them a bit espacially if they already do A LOT of the more nuanced hobbying stuff like their own basing etc. But for "newer" people who don´t these look such stupid and even more unrealistic in pose as just putting them on the ground where they start/end anyway.
@@lolzzx1 i used to not even like doing the bases. I would just leave them black. I know this is gona send someone into a frenzy but i just wasnt a fan of it
Exactly, the one you get in the chaos terminator lord is great, it gives the model an imposing feel and its from a time before every model had a tactical rock. The most important thing is that *its optional* which was a cool option.
Yeah, and if anything, it tends to limit the poses, especially on non-flying infantry. People say it allows for more variety, but how many are just a minor variant of the same couple of "one foot on rock, gun held vertically" poses?
@@nicholassinnett2958 can't also forget the "foot on rock/skull with sword pointed towards the sky for no reason". Like yeah it's nice to have a hero in a dynamic pose, but when it's one model in every squad it looks stupid
I think the problem is with how big/heavy space marines are supposed to be. But your comment about the heresy era marine looking like he just landed gave me some ideas. I think you could still sell the weight of a marine and imply that they've been flying around by showing their impact. 1.) Landing on enemies (Probably reserved for characters. Picture something like High Marshal Helbrecht) 2.) Stones being thrown up around them 3.) Crashing through scenery (like breaking through a wall or door) 4.) Please god anything but the clear supports
The last round of pre-primaris assault marines had a bunch of stone and metal panels for them to land on or jump off, and very dynamic legs to contrast the more grounded (ha) poses of other astartes.
The thing that gets me, is 3d prints have solved this problem for them. Its Smoke plumes. Just have them on plastic pillars meant to look like smoke plumes. It works, its structurally sound, it looks way better. Like, is GW just persisting with the most breakable rocks destined to snap off at the slightest wobble out of pure spite because they refuse to admit some random yahoos on Igloo did a better job than them? Why else would they persist in this? Even the clear plastic rods were a better alternative.
I think the problem with tactical rocks SPECIFICALLY with flying models is that the poses are so rigid, vanilla and lifeless. The Captain with Jump Pack looks like he's just walking forward onto the air. In fact, he looks like he WAS supposed to be walking, but was then given a tactical rock so he could "fly". Stuff like Commander Dante works because he has a really striking pose, pushing off the rock to fly backwards while shooting at the advancing enemy, which is the WHOLE POINT of jump packs; rapid advance AND retreat. Even this new Chaos Lord with Jump Pack looks like he's just.... hovering there. Flying models should be more aggressive and loose, with their weight heavily leaning forward as they fly towards their enemies. Their legs should look like they're bracing for a landing or flying behind them to make them more aerodynamic.
Introducing the Emperor’s Finest…..The Jump Pack Twinkle Toe Synchronization Squad! Watch them all at the same time tip toe on what are small rocks and structures on the battle fields of the 41st millennium! I have 20 of those guys, my challenge is going to be how I repose them them all, will be difficult considering the limited build options out of the box.
Is it an unpopular opinion to think that the smoke/jet plumes that some people print are the best solution? I think they look so cool when you have the mini held up by the jet from the actual propulsion. Also poses. I really wish they made them a bit more interesting. I know podger spoke about poses being fine but i kinda disagree. For something like jumpack units, imagine having some that are sort of crouched down, with their jets roaring, as if they are about to lift off. Some could be in the sky, some could be landing and some could just be running along like the retro ones.
@@Itz2Cat what I have seen done is put a standard on the back to get the height back when they cut the flying supports. It's just hard when the same unit has high height variability inside of it. But my answer is really detail oriented and in kitchen table it doesn't really matters. In most tournaments either tbh. Except some of the highest like the world champion or the WTC. (Your answer wasn't dumb it's a complicated games with lot of nuances that are easy to miss. That's why even professional have a hard time balancing it )
I think the reason it looks a bit goofy is because the jets on the jet packs look like they’re turned off with no kind of effect coming out of them. Kinda kind looks like they’re hovering in place.
If this was a direct response then its missing the forest for the trees. Like, to respond to the "Ahh too many tiny rocks with people jumping off them" by then going "Goods new, the tiny peice of terrain all you're guys are going to snap off and will always look out of place on is now some smoke instead" Doesn't solve the issue, just throw some new detailing onto the same issue. uh, general things to say is that I think the assult squads are great, and I love the HH ones, I want a jump pack, and some posing like they're going to take off or landing, I dont want them actually in the air as it so rarely looks any good to me.
we need some veriety! tactical logs! tactical broken things, shards of oil drums, crates, barrier etc. tactical chunk of tank tred. tactical explosion. SOMETHING THAT AIN'T A ROCK OR A HELMET
I think smoke can be done well for jumping units. I play a lot of battletech, and for the mechs that use jump jets, they add a big smoke cloud as an addon. it's entirely optional, but I think a good cloud of fart gas is pretty effective at making a mech look like it's jumping/flying. however, for properly flying units like Vtols and Helicopters, they use acrylic rods. You can look up an example of a jumping Highlander mech or a jumping Thunderbolt mech and the smoke cloud looks pretty good.
I think a mix of stands smoke/dust rocks and perhaps plants or trees flying past a small wall even would look good if the side of a foot was scraping by
i hate the new flying poses so much i just put jump packs on regular assault intercessors, hardly an original ideia, but they look much better firmly on the ground
I don't mind the tactical rock or other fancy basing things like that, but I think, like so many other things, it should be done in moderation. If every model stands on a tactical rock, then it becomes silly, if a handful of your models do, then that's fine. So for me the ideal way of doing it would be to let characters and important models have the extra flare that makes them look more heroic & stand out, and let the basic troops stay on flat ground. (Oh, and the old raptors were metal. And they were truly awful)
Honestly, I think Tactical Rocks™️ look fine most of the time. But the main problem with flying minis and tactical rocks is that their pose doesn’t sell the fact that they’re flying. Take the new jump Lord for example, it doesn’t look like it’s flying at all. More like hovering. If the legs had a more dynamic pose and it actually LOOKED like he was being thrusted into the air, I think he’d be fine.
Flying space marines shouldn't be posed as if they're taking off but rather that they've just landed or are about to. You can have a dynamic landing pose which better captures jump marines role - smash into enemies from on high
a couple of dynamic poses i have done for my flying models are: seraphims that are using a flamer use the gout of flame from the weapon as the stand, used cotton ball unfurled and painted like smoke coming out of a "smoke grenade" used from my imperial guard sprues to display a landing assault marine had, unfortunately got rid of my death company blood angel assault marines, one using lightning claws flying straight and embedding his claws into an ork as a dynamic pose, he was fairly off centered so had to weigh the base down with a galvanized washer, another death company assault marine doing a vertical slice down with a chainsword into an imperial guardsman's shoulder also top heavy requiring a weighted base imo, could do the last one with virtually any weapon, lol power hammer, swinging down and remove target's head (what will be the stand) and replace with hammer face i also used sprue frames and created I-beams corners for assault marines to leap off/land on, and mimicked thrust with gouts of flame and smoke with unfurled cotton ball hiding wire to also indicate a tactical dodge
Honestly I think star wars legion has found the best solution even if it isn't the most elegant. Since they have no choice about making floating vehicles, they just bite the bullet and print clear plastic support pieces. So they can also print units which are flying on jetpacks. There's actually a lot of interesting comparative design you can do between Legion and Warhammer, because they use the same scale, but legion uses designs that weren't made with tabletop in mind.
When I look at them in person I hardly notice the rocks! Especially with a basing scheme which makes them blend in. It's a camera thing which makes you notice them more I think
I remember building my inceptors and the plastic stands they came with were a pain to work with. SO MUCH GLUE and they still refused to stay up. In hindsight, I kinda like this approach and how they're being creative with making the stands be debris from the battlefield.
Those old school raptor models haven’t fallen over without a strong jostle in the 15 years I’ve had them. I wish they would just update the size and make them in plastic. The sculpts on those is perfect.
Include a flight stand but also the tactical rock as a seperate piece of the model & give us options of rocks to use, do with without, or come up with something ourselves. Heck, throw some options in a blister & let us choose.
I think Haarken Worldclaimer looks the best of all of their recent flying minis, the forward tilt sells the feeling of flying more to me than the upright, static pose of the new chaos lord with jump pack
A tactical rock here or there to highlight certain important models is fine. The problem is when *every* model is highlighted with a tactical rock, it defeats the purpose. I prefer airborne units to be either in grounded poses, or on flight stands. Poses connected to the ground by a piece of terrain look clever if it's part of a scenic base, but when there's nothing but the piece of terrain supporting the model, it just looks silly.
Give me tactical rubble, corpses, you know, signs of a unit FIGHTING in a battle! There isn't anything wrong with tactical rocks, it's when you can't craft past a rock as a stand that worries folks
On the topic of smoke, I feel like it would be a cool idea, for jump pack units, to use a plume of smoke out of the actual packs' exhaust, as if the unit is about to take flight.
I wonder if they tried leaning towards using exhaust and decided not to. Smoke is pretty bulky, but there are so many other ways exhaust can look like. Maybe start with a cone from the nozzles, then go into Mach diamonds, and only then transition to smoke at the end
i think a better way to pose flyers, that also make them less breakable in transit. Is to just have a large jet wash off the back pack touching the base. Its better than the tactical rock, you can add smoke effects to the exhaust. And wont cry about it when you open a case and see it disconnected, or its gets bumbed on the table and breaks
It looks cool, but i like the old stuff with the clear plastic flight atnds. They were a pain in the ass with how they broke but i would still rather have them go down that route and make the poses and strengthen the stands.
There is a way you can win but it needs a lot of work (what I've been doing for years): clear transparent bases, cutting any part of the miniature used to do scenic bases and using methacrylate supports for any flying miniature. Miniatures like the Abhorrant Archregent are a pain for me because "the model looks cool" but "is that guy supposed to carry a chunk of church every time he goes anywhere?" I'm sorry for the scenic bases fans but gaming miniatures and "little dioramas" should be two separate things
honestly, i think smoke could be the way to go, but only if they start making it out of transparent plastic. if it was more transparent and only painted a little in a few strategic places it wouldnt stand out so much and look much more like smoke. kinda like flight stands but a little less intrusive because itd fit in more, but still aiming to be as invisible as it can
They seem to limit themselves bu having models attach mainly at the foot. You could jave jet plumes from rocket packs attaching on backpacks or tendrils of ribbon from tattered banners etc.
My buddies and myself in the 3-d printing space have a theory that models that are “floating” are really hard to scan and copy. Makes sense a little. Not much but a little.
I'm putting together noise marines currently and the guitar Marine stands atop a skull so personally I can embrace the esthetic I'll prolly do a yellow to red smoke per my scheme
I think it would be cool if Games Workshop discovered transparent plastics. Though there's nothing stopping a proficient hobbyist from modifying it to their own preference.
Why not use more transparent plastic, such as a cloud/plume of dust. It would function similar to a tactical rock, but a player could paint it with a translucent brown wash with flecks of base-dirt to give the appearance of take-off, or could color it grey/black for smoke. I don't like the opaque blocky appearance of the smoke, and long transparent stands break, so why not marry the best of both worlds with transparent-clouds as tactial-rocks for which the players can wash/dye and paint to suit.
I agree that they need to be standing on something but like with the new tech marine how it's part of a landradier just something different besides a chunk of concrete every now and again especially with character models
I feel like my problem with the dante and chaos marine model is that they look too elegant or like they are just hovering in the sky, like these are super powered jump packs like they are gonna shoot up into the sky and fall like a rock. I just feel like they should use that to their advantage, imagine having the chaos marine slam his axe down on someone rather than just holding it up like it's show and tell.
I just miss when GW was happy to give us multiple poses, wargear and bits... even their more modular boxes are pretty god damn close to being monopose. I would prefer to mod a model to make it dynamic than be fixed into one look. An exception is unique named characters, to a point. As for flight stands. My favourite approach to flight stands is to use lengths of piano wire painted black, they stand out less than clear stands, are super strong and thin
The old mephiston was floating on his scrolls. That was a good design. And i wish the new marines would uave more decor, more scrolls and more ornaments. They are way too functional
All the examples with rocks, smoke etc are much better than those horrible clear plastic flight stands we’ve had previously. The idea with rocks, smoke and scrolls is the right way for flying infantry, it’s just the execution of it that needs to improve.
I wouldnt mind "tactical rocks" if almost all of them werent just actual rocks. More bits of ruins, bodies, broken vehicle parts, etc as rocks would be welcome in my eyes
For space marines their posing needs to look better like the captain in jump pack is ok but the chaos lord is super awkward if it was him taking off or mid flight it would be super cool
Im just not a fan of how faction specific the base is. And if you are going that route at least make it like a necron head or something more interesting than another dead primaris.
I dislike all of them personally, a transparent bar to hold the units suffices and probably would do the best job, leaving the base open for whatever you want on it.
I prefer flight stands if done well like in gunpla, Lego, Warlord minitures... The issue with GW flight stands is that they are do poorly and like you said detract from the experience in ways Flight stands don't normally do.
I think the reason the Herasy mk6 don't have more dynamic bases (and partly why herasy and new models in general are semi/completely monopose) is because it lets them cram more into a smaller space. The 10 man assault squad is about the same size as the old firstborn jump assault squad (along with sprue design in general getting ALOT better). I like tactical rocks, for all of my jump infantry so far I've been making my own. With the mk6 squad i'm actually having alot of trouble with that since both feet are on the ground in most of the poses ;w;
The flight posts I think better sell me on the idea that they're flying, but it's by no means the best solution. Going with a dude that's using terrain alongside either space magic or equipment to propel himself forwards isn't the worst idea, but only as long as it's done tastefully. If you just have this giant rock that sticks out quite a bit, it just looks stupid to me. The transparent posts would probably be my go to pick, although they do need some adjustments so that they actually work better, combined with good posing on the models. I don't really collect anymore however, so I've no stake in this ultimately. Makes zero difference to me what they opt to do.
I get the memes but it can look cool to have a rock to stand on. Heck I jump on rocks any chance I get! However, -ALL- characters don't need them. Moderation is always key. I much prefer rocks over other debris like wrecked city parts and stuff. A rock can be found on literally every concievable ground base so they can always blend in well. Except perhaps the outer skin of a space vessel.
I think the main issue here is the pose of the marine honestly, it doesnt look like its flying. It looks like hes posed for the ground and lifted up you know? Honestly in general i feel like they should be posed like they are about to fly if anything. Some already do it of course but most just got their last little pinky toe on a random rock. Why not just make it look like they took a last step on a rock as a boost to push them into the air. Jetpack activated etc. Hell most the poses here make them jump ALL the way to the left yet somehow their foot is connected to something all the way to the right. Put the rock behind the model since its just there to hold the model up, and it will make it look like theyre flying towards the enemy. You kinda touched upon this but this shit frustrates me to no end haha
Haarken Worldclaimer is executed better than the new jump lord imo, I would probably just kitbash him instead, more aggressive, and if you're gonna put a faction on the base, might as well go full torso with a pole in it, and the forward lean sells the "flying" better than the static pose of the jump lord.
I think _tactical smoke_ could be better than tactical rock if you can smooth it out and make it look more natural, otherwise, I'm all in on the transparent flight stands.
I personally would prefer just dynamically posed but grounded models. Imo flight stands and "floating" poses should be reserved for units that are mostly or always flying. Like Gargoyles, Landspeeders, Scourges, etc. But in the end there's no perfect way like you've said.
All of those models use "Flight stands".
Clear plastic rods that allow those models to float.
What we see here are models who ARENT always in the air, but still have the ability to fly. And so; you get these rocks that help sell the illusion of jump-packs.
@@LinkiePup depending on edition rules, tactical rocks stop your jump assault troops from using cover. They become too tall. I dont think jet pack units should be floating at all.
tactical rocks dont look bad with proper basing. GW uses minimalistic bases in their promo pictures so people can clearly see everything included with the model, which makes the tactical rock stand out instead of naturally blending it with the base.
this is why I have no issues with it as my basing for my salamander to mostly me painting cracks of lava on the black bases themselves. In my case at least the rocks add to the design rather then stand out.
Do you have any good examples of a tasteful tactical rock? I'd love to see.
And what is with people that don´t wanna do "proper" basing? That just wanna have like a simpel base? Everyone can always model a bit of tactical rock to their model and change them a bit espacially if they already do A LOT of the more nuanced hobbying stuff like their own basing etc. But for "newer" people who don´t these look such stupid and even more unrealistic in pose as just putting them on the ground where they start/end anyway.
@@lolzzx1 i used to not even like doing the bases. I would just leave them black. I know this is gona send someone into a frenzy but i just wasnt a fan of it
Sometimes your basing doesn't involve rocks in the setting.
The problem was tactical rocks on almost every stinking model.
Exactly, the one you get in the chaos terminator lord is great, it gives the model an imposing feel and its from a time before every model had a tactical rock.
The most important thing is that *its optional* which was a cool option.
Yeah, and if anything, it tends to limit the poses, especially on non-flying infantry. People say it allows for more variety, but how many are just a minor variant of the same couple of "one foot on rock, gun held vertically" poses?
@@nicholassinnett2958 can't also forget the "foot on rock/skull with sword pointed towards the sky for no reason".
Like yeah it's nice to have a hero in a dynamic pose, but when it's one model in every squad it looks stupid
Just give me the dang clear flying stand. As long as there isn't a bubble of air in it.
I think the problem is with how big/heavy space marines are supposed to be. But your comment about the heresy era marine looking like he just landed gave me some ideas. I think you could still sell the weight of a marine and imply that they've been flying around by showing their impact.
1.) Landing on enemies (Probably reserved for characters. Picture something like High Marshal Helbrecht)
2.) Stones being thrown up around them
3.) Crashing through scenery (like breaking through a wall or door)
4.) Please god anything but the clear supports
The last round of pre-primaris assault marines had a bunch of stone and metal panels for them to land on or jump off, and very dynamic legs to contrast the more grounded (ha) poses of other astartes.
The thing that gets me, is 3d prints have solved this problem for them. Its Smoke plumes. Just have them on plastic pillars meant to look like smoke plumes. It works, its structurally sound, it looks way better. Like, is GW just persisting with the most breakable rocks destined to snap off at the slightest wobble out of pure spite because they refuse to admit some random yahoos on Igloo did a better job than them? Why else would they persist in this? Even the clear plastic rods were a better alternative.
And it's not like they can't sculpt smoke, look at the new Asmodai, and now this Chaos guy.
Sculpting smoke isnt a problem, nobody can paint smoke.
@@TheKsalad Base Coat Black, drybrush grey. Thats it. Those are the steps.
I LOVE the flames coming off a jump pack to hold it up, that looks awesome (3d print)
I think the problem with tactical rocks SPECIFICALLY with flying models is that the poses are so rigid, vanilla and lifeless. The Captain with Jump Pack looks like he's just walking forward onto the air. In fact, he looks like he WAS supposed to be walking, but was then given a tactical rock so he could "fly". Stuff like Commander Dante works because he has a really striking pose, pushing off the rock to fly backwards while shooting at the advancing enemy, which is the WHOLE POINT of jump packs; rapid advance AND retreat. Even this new Chaos Lord with Jump Pack looks like he's just.... hovering there.
Flying models should be more aggressive and loose, with their weight heavily leaning forward as they fly towards their enemies. Their legs should look like they're bracing for a landing or flying behind them to make them more aerodynamic.
Introducing the Emperor’s Finest…..The Jump Pack Twinkle Toe Synchronization Squad! Watch them all at the same time tip toe on what are small rocks and structures on the battle fields of the 41st millennium!
I have 20 of those guys, my challenge is going to be how I repose them them all, will be difficult considering the limited build options out of the box.
Is it an unpopular opinion to think that the smoke/jet plumes that some people print are the best solution?
I think they look so cool when you have the mini held up by the jet from the actual propulsion.
Also poses. I really wish they made them a bit more interesting. I know podger spoke about poses being fine but i kinda disagree. For something like jumpack units, imagine having some that are sort of crouched down, with their jets roaring, as if they are about to lift off. Some could be in the sky, some could be landing and some could just be running along like the retro ones.
I get the appeal but I'm personally not a fan of the big plumes of smoke unless its on orks or somthing
imagine a vaulting one, boltgun style
Big problem is there must be approximately the same height otherwise it's easy to model for advantage
@@caelumemerald1875 Oh, ive never actually played the game so i guess my suggestion is kinda dumb.
@@Itz2Cat what I have seen done is put a standard on the back to get the height back when they cut the flying supports. It's just hard when the same unit has high height variability inside of it. But my answer is really detail oriented and in kitchen table it doesn't really matters. In most tournaments either tbh. Except some of the highest like the world champion or the WTC.
(Your answer wasn't dumb it's a complicated games with lot of nuances that are easy to miss. That's why even professional have a hard time balancing it )
Reject tactical rocks/ smoke. Return to clear acrylic rods.
behold as they tip over every 3 seconds from their high center of gravity!
We can't win no matter what.
@@Blackgriffonphoenixgjust glue a penny in that base
I think the reason it looks a bit goofy is because the jets on the jet packs look like they’re turned off with no kind of effect coming out of them. Kinda kind looks like they’re hovering in place.
Wish they had transparent flying stems instead
Mix of the two would be nice
If this was a direct response then its missing the forest for the trees. Like, to respond to the "Ahh too many tiny rocks with people jumping off them" by then going "Goods new, the tiny peice of terrain all you're guys are going to snap off and will always look out of place on is now some smoke instead" Doesn't solve the issue, just throw some new detailing onto the same issue. uh, general things to say is that I think the assult squads are great, and I love the HH ones, I want a jump pack, and some posing like they're going to take off or landing, I dont want them actually in the air as it so rarely looks any good to me.
Naomi from sword and Steel did a Fantastic flying model using the Cloak of the model.
I'd honestly be happier with just a clear plastic flying stalk. Or for them to not actually be flying, as you said, old school.
we need some veriety! tactical logs! tactical broken things, shards of oil drums, crates, barrier etc. tactical chunk of tank tred. tactical explosion. SOMETHING THAT AIN'T A ROCK OR A HELMET
I think smoke can be done well for jumping units. I play a lot of battletech, and for the mechs that use jump jets, they add a big smoke cloud as an addon. it's entirely optional, but I think a good cloud of fart gas is pretty effective at making a mech look like it's jumping/flying. however, for properly flying units like Vtols and Helicopters, they use acrylic rods. You can look up an example of a jumping Highlander mech or a jumping Thunderbolt mech and the smoke cloud looks pretty good.
I think a mix of stands smoke/dust rocks and perhaps plants or trees flying past a small wall even would look good if the side of a foot was scraping by
i hate the new flying poses so much i just put jump packs on regular assault intercessors, hardly an original ideia, but they look much better firmly on the ground
Please GW, just bring back the clear plastic. I promise we won’t complain again. We’ve seen the error of our ways.
I don't mind the tactical rock or other fancy basing things like that, but I think, like so many other things, it should be done in moderation. If every model stands on a tactical rock, then it becomes silly, if a handful of your models do, then that's fine. So for me the ideal way of doing it would be to let characters and important models have the extra flare that makes them look more heroic & stand out, and let the basic troops stay on flat ground.
(Oh, and the old raptors were metal. And they were truly awful)
Honestly, I think Tactical Rocks™️ look fine most of the time. But the main problem with flying minis and tactical rocks is that their pose doesn’t sell the fact that they’re flying.
Take the new jump Lord for example, it doesn’t look like it’s flying at all. More like hovering. If the legs had a more dynamic pose and it actually LOOKED like he was being thrusted into the air, I think he’d be fine.
Flying space marines shouldn't be posed as if they're taking off but rather that they've just landed or are about to.
You can have a dynamic landing pose which better captures jump marines role - smash into enemies from on high
a couple of dynamic poses i have done for my flying models are: seraphims that are using a flamer use the gout of flame from the weapon as the stand,
used cotton ball unfurled and painted like smoke coming out of a "smoke grenade" used from my imperial guard sprues to display a landing assault marine
had, unfortunately got rid of my death company blood angel assault marines, one using lightning claws flying straight and embedding his claws into an ork as a dynamic pose, he was fairly off centered so had to weigh the base down with a galvanized washer,
another death company assault marine doing a vertical slice down with a chainsword into an imperial guardsman's shoulder also top heavy requiring a weighted base
imo, could do the last one with virtually any weapon, lol power hammer, swinging down and remove target's head (what will be the stand) and replace with hammer face
i also used sprue frames and created I-beams corners for assault marines to leap off/land on, and mimicked thrust with gouts of flame and smoke with unfurled cotton ball hiding wire to also indicate a tactical dodge
Honestly I think star wars legion has found the best solution even if it isn't the most elegant. Since they have no choice about making floating vehicles, they just bite the bullet and print clear plastic support pieces. So they can also print units which are flying on jetpacks.
There's actually a lot of interesting comparative design you can do between Legion and Warhammer, because they use the same scale, but legion uses designs that weren't made with tabletop in mind.
Genuinely curious as to why you like the jump assault intercessors? I think the tactical rock make otherwise nice models look terrible.
Run two squads of them and you have guys on two sides of the battle field all toeing on the same rock 😂😂
When I look at them in person I hardly notice the rocks! Especially with a basing scheme which makes them blend in.
It's a camera thing which makes you notice them more I think
For me I prefer to sculpt a bit smoke out of the marines' jump pack with green stuff
I remember building my inceptors and the plastic stands they came with were a pain to work with. SO MUCH GLUE and they still refused to stay up. In hindsight, I kinda like this approach and how they're being creative with making the stands be debris from the battlefield.
Honestly, if I wanted a flying pose, I’d model it myself.
Those old school raptor models haven’t fallen over without a strong jostle in the 15 years I’ve had them. I wish they would just update the size and make them in plastic. The sculpts on those is perfect.
Include a flight stand but also the tactical rock as a seperate piece of the model & give us options of rocks to use, do with without, or come up with something ourselves. Heck, throw some options in a blister & let us choose.
i dont mind the tatical rock at all. easy to remove but fits the most base options.
I wish we had the option of just having both feet on the ground
I think Haarken Worldclaimer looks the best of all of their recent flying minis, the forward tilt sells the feeling of flying more to me than the upright, static pose of the new chaos lord with jump pack
A tactical rock here or there to highlight certain important models is fine. The problem is when *every* model is highlighted with a tactical rock, it defeats the purpose.
I prefer airborne units to be either in grounded poses, or on flight stands. Poses connected to the ground by a piece of terrain look clever if it's part of a scenic base, but when there's nothing but the piece of terrain supporting the model, it just looks silly.
Give me tactical rubble, corpses, you know, signs of a unit FIGHTING in a battle! There isn't anything wrong with tactical rocks, it's when you can't craft past a rock as a stand that worries folks
It’s a tough thing to convey visually on a model. Idk what the perfect answer really is
You COULD levitate it... with magnets...
On the topic of smoke, I feel like it would be a cool idea, for jump pack units, to use a plume of smoke out of the actual packs' exhaust, as if the unit is about to take flight.
I wonder if they tried leaning towards using exhaust and decided not to. Smoke is pretty bulky, but there are so many other ways exhaust can look like. Maybe start with a cone from the nozzles, then go into Mach diamonds, and only then transition to smoke at the end
i think a better way to pose flyers, that also make them less breakable in transit. Is to just have a large jet wash off the back pack touching the base. Its better than the tactical rock, you can add smoke effects to the exhaust. And wont cry about it when you open a case and see it disconnected, or its gets bumbed on the table and breaks
That tactical scrap piles where amazing on the deff kopters and fly boys little repetitive but nothing u cant fix
It looks cool, but i like the old stuff with the clear plastic flight atnds. They were a pain in the ass with how they broke but i would still rather have them go down that route and make the poses and strengthen the stands.
There is a way you can win but it needs a lot of work (what I've been doing for years): clear transparent bases, cutting any part of the miniature used to do scenic bases and using methacrylate supports for any flying miniature.
Miniatures like the Abhorrant Archregent are a pain for me because "the model looks cool" but "is that guy supposed to carry a chunk of church every time he goes anywhere?" I'm sorry for the scenic bases fans but gaming miniatures and "little dioramas" should be two separate things
honestly, i think smoke could be the way to go, but only if they start making it out of transparent plastic. if it was more transparent and only painted a little in a few strategic places it wouldnt stand out so much and look much more like smoke. kinda like flight stands but a little less intrusive because itd fit in more, but still aiming to be as invisible as it can
If a clear fly stick was used with a posed that suggested forward movement (rather than lateral, upward, or backward/recoil), it'd look much better
They seem to limit themselves bu having models attach mainly at the foot. You could jave jet plumes from rocket packs attaching on backpacks or tendrils of ribbon from tattered banners etc.
Perfect way to do it = epic jetblast
My buddies and myself in the 3-d printing space have a theory that models that are “floating” are really hard to scan and copy. Makes sense a little. Not much but a little.
As a model aircraft builder, hang it with fishing line from the ceiling! 😂 I’m at least glad we aren’t the only hobby that struggles with this thing.
They look cool but you just know they're going to be fragile and it would be better just planting them to the base or clear sticks
I'm putting together noise marines currently and the guitar Marine stands atop a skull so personally I can embrace the esthetic I'll prolly do a yellow to red smoke per my scheme
I think it would be cool if Games Workshop discovered transparent plastics. Though there's nothing stopping a proficient hobbyist from modifying it to their own preference.
The other way - which is unlikely would have smoke bases which connect to the rocket engines - I've seen a few which look pretty good.
Dante isnt flying, hes standing like a ballet dancer on a rock.
My problem is that the heroic scale with the huge bulky armor and giant weapons doesn't give a lot of options for interesting poses for space Marines.
Why not use more transparent plastic, such as a cloud/plume of dust. It would function similar to a tactical rock, but a player could paint it with a translucent brown wash with flecks of base-dirt to give the appearance of take-off, or could color it grey/black for smoke. I don't like the opaque blocky appearance of the smoke, and long transparent stands break, so why not marry the best of both worlds with transparent-clouds as tactial-rocks for which the players can wash/dye and paint to suit.
the model could definitely be floating there with no physical support, it would just cost more for the magnetics.
when the tactical rock works, it works.
I would kill for a version of Celestine standing on the ground. Transporting her scares the shit out of me.
I agree that they need to be standing on something but like with the new tech marine how it's part of a landradier just something different besides a chunk of concrete every now and again especially with character models
For Assault Marines, I would go with the fire from his jump pack.
I feel like my problem with the dante and chaos marine model is that they look too elegant or like they are just hovering in the sky, like these are super powered jump packs like they are gonna shoot up into the sky and fall like a rock. I just feel like they should use that to their advantage, imagine having the chaos marine slam his axe down on someone rather than just holding it up like it's show and tell.
I just miss when GW was happy to give us multiple poses, wargear and bits... even their more modular boxes are pretty god damn close to being monopose.
I would prefer to mod a model to make it dynamic than be fixed into one look.
An exception is unique named characters, to a point.
As for flight stands. My favourite approach to flight stands is to use lengths of piano wire painted black, they stand out less than clear stands, are super strong and thin
The old mephiston was floating on his scrolls. That was a good design. And i wish the new marines would uave more decor, more scrolls and more ornaments. They are way too functional
Could have a few thin clear rods with thin fishing line and have them hanging above the base.
I like running models with jump packs. I got into Warhammer playing Dawn of War. The units jump, not fly while fighting.
Personally, I like the 3D printed jetpack exhaust that I see some people use. It makes logical sense and fits in with any basing scheme.
Am I the only one who likes the clear stems?
All the examples with rocks, smoke etc are much better than those horrible clear plastic flight stands we’ve had previously. The idea with rocks, smoke and scrolls is the right way for flying infantry, it’s just the execution of it that needs to improve.
Would be neat if they used magnets. Have all the weight at the bottom to try and level it out, maybe it could work 🤷♂️
I wouldnt mind "tactical rocks" if almost all of them werent just actual rocks. More bits of ruins, bodies, broken vehicle parts, etc as rocks would be welcome in my eyes
I think the Storm Boyz do flying best. It fits in the Orkz destructive style in a way that looks clean.
For space marines their posing needs to look better like the captain in jump pack is ok but the chaos lord is super awkward if it was him taking off or mid flight it would be super cool
just give an option of smoke holding the miniature so you can choose. Like deadly print studio does.
Im just not a fan of how faction specific the base is. And if you are going that route at least make it like a necron head or something more interesting than another dead primaris.
Waiting for room temp super conductors, not to revolutionize energy transfer, storage and technology, but to have actually floating minis...
I dislike all of them personally, a transparent bar to hold the units suffices and probably would do the best job, leaving the base open for whatever you want on it.
What I hate, what I really REALLY hate, are flying stands. Especially the new style ones. Vile things.
I think it’s fine. It’s still a cool pose in my opinion. It’s a little goofy but it still looks great on the shelf
I prefer flight stands if done well like in gunpla, Lego, Warlord minitures... The issue with GW flight stands is that they are do poorly and like you said detract from the experience in ways Flight stands don't normally do.
Tactical rock vs tactical feet stink lines
Both feet firmly planted on the ground. Best for everyone. For every model.
I think the reason the Herasy mk6 don't have more dynamic bases (and partly why herasy and new models in general are semi/completely monopose) is because it lets them cram more into a smaller space. The 10 man assault squad is about the same size as the old firstborn jump assault squad (along with sprue design in general getting ALOT better).
I like tactical rocks, for all of my jump infantry so far I've been making my own. With the mk6 squad i'm actually having alot of trouble with that since both feet are on the ground in most of the poses ;w;
The flight posts I think better sell me on the idea that they're flying, but it's by no means the best solution. Going with a dude that's using terrain alongside either space magic or equipment to propel himself forwards isn't the worst idea, but only as long as it's done tastefully. If you just have this giant rock that sticks out quite a bit, it just looks stupid to me.
The transparent posts would probably be my go to pick, although they do need some adjustments so that they actually work better, combined with good posing on the models. I don't really collect anymore however, so I've no stake in this ultimately. Makes zero difference to me what they opt to do.
Seems like the only solution is magnetic levitating bases, jump pack boys are going to so much more expensive now
I think what I like about the Dante one is it seems like he’s landing on the pillar not taking off from it
Just make the fire and the smoke of the jetpack be used as the support
I get the memes but it can look cool to have a rock to stand on. Heck I jump on rocks any chance I get! However, -ALL- characters don't need them. Moderation is always key.
I much prefer rocks over other debris like wrecked city parts and stuff. A rock can be found on literally every concievable ground base so they can always blend in well. Except perhaps the outer skin of a space vessel.
For what I’m paying for models I should be getting fun and clever ideas
I think the smoke would look better if it enveloped the leg in stead of stopping at the foot.
I think the main issue here is the pose of the marine honestly, it doesnt look like its flying. It looks like hes posed for the ground and lifted up you know?
Honestly in general i feel like they should be posed like they are about to fly if anything.
Some already do it of course but most just got their last little pinky toe on a random rock.
Why not just make it look like they took a last step on a rock as a boost to push them into the air. Jetpack activated etc.
Hell most the poses here make them jump ALL the way to the left yet somehow their foot is connected to something all the way to the right.
Put the rock behind the model since its just there to hold the model up, and it will make it look like theyre flying towards the enemy.
You kinda touched upon this but this shit frustrates me to no end haha
i use clear plastic rod for my deffcoptas. Looks decent enough
I think the transparent flying basses were good
So, the moral of the story: be careful what you mock. It can always be made worse.
Haarken Worldclaimer is executed better than the new jump lord imo, I would probably just kitbash him instead, more aggressive, and if you're gonna put a faction on the base, might as well go full torso with a pole in it, and the forward lean sells the "flying" better than the static pose of the jump lord.
I think _tactical smoke_ could be better than tactical rock if you can smooth it out and make it look more natural, otherwise, I'm all in on the transparent flight stands.
Tactical rock/tactical smoke plume works best when it's attached to a cape or something
I think the main problem with this figure is the legs. He just looks like he's standing in the air. There's no action or dynamics to his pose.