Golos BANNED, Worldfire Unbanned | EDHREC Room
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Golos Pilgrim vs. The Worldfire
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Golos, the retired pilgrim?
Too soon?
This is the best comment yet
Jhoira of the ghitu is gonna have a field day with worldfire
Jhoira of the ghitu hasn't had a field day in years so this is okay with me.
Put it in the pile with jokulhaups, obliterate, decree of annihilation and so on
My golos deck is about to become a jhoira deck!
@@batmanwins5701 I'm so proud my dude! What is the plan of the deck? Also you still have jodah if you just play fat things you like in all colors.
@@zchwen my deck is not one that uses many Muti color spells so jodah is not a suitable replacement. It was a yidris deck that became a golos deck so I might go back to yidris but truely many of the big spells are blue so I will examine jhoira as the replacement as she is also in the 99.
The grab a land was so good, if you removed him it just meant the next turn they casting him again and get another land
It was best to Oko him.
I love how the background of this video is nothing but other banned cards
I just want them to print a gates matter commander now that Golos is gone. He was PERFECT.
Tbh he was perfect to almost any deck
@@winwi000 touche
Oh man, i only use Golos as my commander for a Maze Runner deck, now its useless.
Disappointed.
100% agree. I was trying to get a golos gates deck together, and now..... welp.
Please wotc, give us a commander that lets us use Maze's End without making our deck literally strictly worse. Because that's what Golos was for me.
That was the problem, he was perfect for way too many strategies. Which isn't healthy in the command zone
The reason Worldfire was banned in commander was because of the potential to float mana to recast your commander, come out ahead, and immediately win. And honestly, if your win condition involves casting a 6RRR sorcery with enough spare mana to recast your commander this late in the game, I’m not really mad. Good game, wild 15 mana combo, shuffle up.
Golos hasn’t been a problem in my play group but I can see exactly why it would be. I just treat it like Urza and Kinnan and Korvold, commanders with so much built in value that we only drag them out against each other.
I vote every Golos player casts worldfire in remembrance.
I told my 16yr old son that him winning five games against his 14yr old brother was the sole reason Golos got banned. Happy for him to pick Tergrid as his new commander.
tergrid is a horrible experience, wtf
good let's get tergrid banned as well
x D
@@taurelith4867 she's in the watch to be banned too
He moves to Tergrid?! Are you proud of the monster you have created?!
I think Golos's crime is that he's too much of what a lot of people in commander want to do. He's strong in general but on top of that he gets the passive buff of it being taboo to target lands or use stax/hatebear pieces. You want people to largely leave everyone alone while you ramp out lands and play haymakers? Not much beats Golos in that environment but he sure doesn't do as well in one where Collector Ouphe, Cursed Totem, Phyrexian Revoker, or Pithing Needle to name a few, are regularly on the battlefield.
Am I using a bad "dies to removal" argument in this situation to grandstand that I dislike that a lot of the commander world, relevantly the portion that creates rules for it, seem to over value people finding interesting ways of playing solitaire and get grumpy when they are forced to weaken their finely tuned machine to include interaction for a large chunk of possible deck strategies? Yes, yes I am.
Well put king
Your goal of people playing more removal is noble but of those cards I've seen pithing needle once on the battlefield two times during 9 years of playing commander but ok
@@selkokieli843 I dunno, man. We just got a land that can tutor it up for free. It might be worth running if you are playing Urza's Saga. I haven't done it yet, but I've definitely thought about it.
Yeah, grabbing sol ring, moxen, or mana crypt is usually better, but if you need the removal, it might be worth running now.
@@BigPapaGanda There are much better hate cards than Pithing Needle for EDH, in multiplayer the effect of a Pithing Needle is going to king-make the other two players who aren't playing the card named.
@@selkokieli843 Exactly the point I'm trying to make, be the change you want to see in the world and throw a Phyrexian Revoker in a deck or two. But surprised out of all of those you've seen pithing needle. What was it in? like an Urza deck?
The worldfire unban is the perfect temperature to pop my popcorn over the Golos drama.
Also goes well with Kediss. One swing from him after the pop and you've won the game.
Dana’s explanation is the best way to describe how I felt about Golos. I didn’t necessarily think it needed to be banned but I think it’s so genetically powerful and boring.
I think sometimes that's reason enough to warrant a ban, even if most of the time it's done for power-balancing. In video games something that's not fun to watch/play could get patched but Golos had to get the axe.
It's also about telling wizards we don't want any more of these fucks in the format. Give us another route for maze''s end that doesn't also do literally everything else.
@@Verygrimcoyote Like along with that, GOATS meta in overwatch. Horrible to watch and play.
@@malmasterson3890 should havee taken that stance when wizards started with the secretlair bs
@@Verygrimcoyote but that's still much better left up to each playgroup rather than banned outright. golos is the most played commander for a reason, and a lot of people find him fun to play. it takes no effort for someone to not play with a golos player if they dont want to, but it takes a lot of effort and money for the golos player to remake a manabase for another 5c commander or get another deck. im sorry but banning the most played commander in an unofficial format is just something that should be up to anyone but the people who are currently playing it or against it
Teferi's Protection will be in EVERY Worldfire deck.
i mean, that's a solid win con
I mean 12 mana to win the game with 2 cards is fine
It is a great win con for Boros.
@@atlasrises4 you act like 12 mana is hard to do in commander.
@@bedge8601 no, I act like if you have 12 mana you either got there naturally so end the game already or you invested even more than 2 cards to get there and that's fine. At minimum you're playing boros so whatever color combo you're in for you to go for a worldfire win is an investment compared to any easier degenerate way of winning.
I'm a pretty new player, but I think this ban really exemplifies a decision approaching commander from a casual format perspective more than a top down competitive. It's not that there aren't stronger or more oppressive commanders, but rather that Golos' design has literally no skill floor in comparison to the rest of the format. In casual settings this guy does genuinely everything for you to the point that you could practically randomly generate a deck for him so long as it contains at least 1 of each basic land. I really like this guy a lot and was building a scout tribal so I'm still pretty disappointed it's been banned though.
Golos is Legal in Historic Brawl which is even worse bc it is 1v1.
I read this tweet about a guy who had 5 golos decks and got supremely mad
1 for each color ;)
What do you even do if you were that guy?
@@Turn2Ugin create a new format and banlist
@@Turn2Ugin go home and rethink your life
No one is thinks that Golos isn't broken. He is certainly over powered, but by no means toxic. Does he bring certain drawbacks to the format? Yes, but no more than any of the other op commanders out there. He opened up many people to build decks that were fun and unique to THEM. Why take that away? Isn't that what the format is about? Why does rule 0 work for one card, and not another?
I agree. The power creep in the last few years has introduced several commanders that were unnecessarily efficient. I'm not sure why golos is worse than what Chulainn, Korvold, Urza have done. I feel that they have rendered many decks obsolete
Its very hard to rule 0 the most built commander in the game. Try sitting down with people and saying, oh you all got some golos decks? F u, you dont get to play them. That will make you a bunch of friends i bet. Golos was just such a freeroll. I think almost half of my 17 decks, if not more, would be better and more consistent if Golos was at the helm. Which is just dumb.
Not just the fact he was overly powerful, it's that he was pushing out more varied and interesting commanders in all of the color combinations while also reducing card diversity because he has no restrictions for color.
@@selkokieli843 I get that. You easily could use golos to support a great number of things that it didn't feel great to see him doing. 5 color dragons with golos seems wrong (but when the ur dragons 50 bucks I bet that plays into the decision. Golos's low budget made him accessible.
For me what made Golos good was that he could be used to create interesting decks that weren't super playable. I had him pilot my mazes end deck--- it wasn't a super powerful deck, but as I look at other 5 color commander options it will only bring inconsistencies to a deck that really shouldn't run. As an individual, if you value new and interesting decks, build them. I never once felt golos took from me the desire to build inventive decks. If anything I find my creativity more stifled by the homogenous cards in the 99 that seem present in every deck that can run them. Those are the cards that are pushing out varied ideas.
I wonder if newer players found golos more attractive because of budget, power, and accessibility. When I was newer I chose power over creativity-- because that's what I needed to feel like I knew what I was doing. I bet over the long haul we would see a lot of golos decks disassemble that shouldn't be there. On the other hand big splashy magic is one people like to play and golos supported that like no other so I could be wrong.
All this to say I think there was a place for golos in the format
What commanders have been overshadowed by him that will now flourish? How many people are going to switch to playing those decks rather than just change out Golos for another op commander in the format?
All Golos did was replace the extra turns/bombs toxicity shell that was originally the Narset decks’ domain and add ramp and repeated single-turn use of the ability.
Typically golos deck (at least online)~ 50% lands and ramp, 15% extra turns, 10% draw, 10% counters/blink/protection, 10% sweepers, 5% finishers. Most golos decks don’t even run creatures beyond Sakura Tribe-Elder/grove dryad.
There’s a huge difference between wanting to actually play all of your favorite spells of all colors and just spamming free broken spells. Plenty of creative 5c decks out there that work for it and succeed. Goldfish Golos was, sadly, not one of them. When half the Rule 0 comments on MtGO queues are “No golos”, you know there was a problem.
Yep, the people whining that as if the fact that they don't do busted stuff with him means he shouldn't be banned. As if there isn't 10,000 other people out there playing the busted builds to their one under powered one. The edh community is hilariously biased when it comes to power evaluation when it comes to cards they like to abuse themselves. Have a rule 0 conversation and stop whining as if the rest of the community needs to shoulder the load so you can play your "under tuned version" of golos people.
Worldfire went up in price by like 2000% today.
I wonder how many RC members bought a ton of Worldfire before the unban... and maybe that makes the golos ban a publicity stunt.
@@benkalisky3384 that's what everyone i've talked with today ahd said... I wouldnt be surprised if sheldon had 100 foil worldfires ready to be sold
Unsubstantiated conspiracy theory is my fallback too when I get frustrated
Im not saying its likely, im just saying that if i k ew my actions were going to cause a consumable to spike in value massively , i would buy a shit ton of them.
@@benkalisky3384 i have similar suspicions since the Protean Hulk unban.
Banning commander that is inherently boring and took forever taking it's turn.. hmm... It's also one of the most popular commander... Hmm... So.. turns out most people in this community are solitaire players after all..
Great video! You talk it through and analyze instead of just kneejerk react. Good! A well balanced discussion get us so much further. Cudos to you guys!
If this was any other format I'd have understood the need for format diversity.
But when your a banning a card in a casual format for format diversity reasons it seems super unessasry.
Definitely makes me reconsider any popular commanders.
Your comment blew my mind, hadn’t thought of it like that.
Still, now that edh is the only format that seems to matter and with competitive magic m.i.a., banning for diversity might make sense now? I notice all the sweaty tryhards getting into edh and using a lot of cedh staples at normal lgs tables, and people switching to cedh wincons to keep up. The format seems to have gotten a lot more powerfull. So ‘power banning’ makes more sense now maybe? Golos has been out for years right?
Tldr your comment blew my mind cause i think you’re right but also because i just realised i don’t think of edh as a casual format anymore :p
@@CJ-nd9gg Golos isn't really a cEDH commander though. There are way better ones if we're talking about sheer power or consistency.
This is the rc telling people that there fun is wrong
omg the puns they hurt so good. But yea the Golos thing is real i was making a 3 color deck and then thought wouldnt Golos still be better than something else.
We need more multi colored partner commanders to solve this problem. I think you could take good and make 2 or 3 multi colored commanders out of him.
I agree with Dana, people have to learn how to play without the Training Wheels now.
@@brianmcevoy1990 I guess I’m an elitist then? I was just agreeing with Dana and giving another dumb metaphor. :)
There is also the third camp, that played Golos in the 99, as a splashy engine, and are sad to have to cut it.
Yeah I had previously discussed with my group that if any commander was worthy of bringing back "banned as commander", it's Golos. Sadly the RC would rather go nuclear but imo it's best that Golos is gone as a commander.
there are some commanders and companions, that are only problematic and therefore banned, if they are the commanders/companions. The banlist sadly does not differentiate...
@@caligo7918 Jep, I understand why they got rid of the banned as commander list, but as enfranchised player, that sucks.
I don’t really get the idea that worldfire invalidating the rest of the game being some new problem. Infinite combos do the same thing. And you might argue that combos take set up but so does world fire. And some combos don’t require set up and it’s just down to rule 0 of saying I dint like games that end out of no where.
People who don't understand why Golos should be banned seem to be completely blind to how strong he is... It's really strange. I've seen hundreds of comments saying "well I just used him to [find Cabal Coffers in my mono black Golos] / [find Mazes end in my Maze deck] / [fix my mana for this or that strat], etc... We understand what you used it for, but it doesn't make Golos any less broken. It could be used in all these archetypes because it was just objectively overpowered. I know you think your deck was unique, but it just wasn't, because if I can't function without Golos, then it wasn't really a functional deck.
Turns out lots of people would like access to Cabal Coffers in the command zone, and commanders with card advantage, and a mana-sink late game, and a commander that ramps. You weren't "pulling off a unique strat," you were just playing Golos
Thank You !
Worldfire seems problematic in combination with all of Red's recent impulse draw effects, especially those that let you exile and play those cards until the end of your next turn (after the Worldfire resolves).
The better way to abuse Worldfire is to just play cards like banishing light and oblivion ring on your own stuff. Worldfire goes off and you get your stuff back.
But at the end of the day, if Worldfire is a mana intensive card that can win you the game, we already have cards like that in every other color.
Torment of Hailfire in black
Cyclonic Rift in blue
Approach of the Second Sun in white
Craterhoof Behemoth in green
These are all cards that with a little bit of effort, probably win you the game. Worldfire is in that same ballpark.
Thanks for the sensible and in-depth discussion. Great listen
The way I referred to it was Golos was the Correct Answer. Building Dragon/Eldrazi/Rat tribal? Golos. Playing any combination of colors? Golos is probably your best option. Any deck that didn't need a very specific engine in it's Command zone was better served running Golos.
What decks don't need specific engines? Can it even be considered a functional deck at that point?
Golos is probably one of the best Enchantment commanders. And artifacts. And Dragons. And Spellslinger. And Lands. And more.
@@bobby45825 Lots of decks don't need a specific commander. If you've ever seen someone use a commander for their color identity and not much else that's what Golos did best.
@@Dr.Barber That seems odd and like a serious waste. If you're playing a commander deck to not emphasize the commander's strengths, or at least have the commander emphasize the deck's strengths, then what's the point?
Really not a fan of the ban. Banned list in a casual format should be smaller not bigger. Tons of broken commanders out there that aren’t banned. I’ve seen a lot of janky 5-color lands decks that don’t work now... I’ve never heard anyone call for a Golos ban. What’s next…Korvold? Chulane? Tergrid? They’re all horrible.
Now that they made Gisa I expect Tergrid to be eating the banhammer any day now
Totally agree. They unbanned worldfire citing rule zero but banned golos cause rule zero doesn’t exist? Dum to ban stuff in casual rite? I really don’t get it like you mention there are other commanders that are much less fun to play against.
What's worse is it starts forcing the rule 0 discussion, even when you don't want to. It's a demonstration to the incompetency and disconnection the committee has with the community overall.
I'm losing a very powerful deck that I invested a lot of time and money in building. It's sad..but I do agree with the banning.
What deck was it that it couldn't swap to another commander?
@@blackmage665 it is sort of like a cascade deck that doesn't rely on the cascade mechanic other than a few cards. Yidris might work but he seems too linear to helm the deck and have it play as strongly.
@@batmanwins5701 depending on the exact nature of your deck, maybe ramos will work. Jodah can also fit, sort of? Kenrith is just good stuff as well.
@@blackmage665 it's not just a five colour generic good stuff and it uses mostly mono color spells so both Jodha and Ramos would be poor choices. Golos's tap ability was what fueled the value engine that made the thing pop off. Getting home to cast extra turns into extra turns was sort of the heart of the deck. I would pullout lands with a big suite of ramp cards thus thinning the lands so I optimized the chance of keeping the chain moving. Once I got a mana doubler or two in play or hit omnipotence the deck just basically won.
just rule 0 it. My pod lets me play certain silver bordered and banned cards. I wasn't doing completely broken things but they still let me do them. I've never had a golos deck but a friend of mine has one and I liked to take on that challenge.
It feels better to rule 0 a banned commander than to rule 0 to ban a commander
This was a perfectly sensible ban announcement to me. Worldfire does not need to be on the ban list because it is the kind of card that the community is clearly capable of self-policing. The EDH banlist is for those cards and kinds of cards which the EDH community cannot self-police and, if the number of decks helmed by Golos was anything to go by, the social contract was not preventing people from jamming 5C Good Stuff when a commander that effortlessly enabled it presented itself.
I like the mild mannered discussion you guys had over this.
Did u watch the commander quarters video
I like the banned card images playing through the video. Nice meta choice there!
I just brewed a maze’s end list too :(
I had a Golos Basic land types matters deck. Using cards that care about how many Forests, Swamps, Mountains, Planes, Islands you have like Last Stand (The actual build around card), Ashaya, Defile, Nissa Who Shakes the world, etc. Golos did a lot for the deck. Fetching whatever land I need: Valakut, Yavimaya Cradle of growth, Coffees, Urborg, Field of the dead, World tree. It was a pretty strong deck purely because I would end up with like 20 lands per game and would get to spin the wheel on Golos a lot eventually winning with either Last Stand or other landfall wincons like Omnaths, Avenger of Zendikar, Valakut, or tokens from Field of the dead.
Probably will use 5c Omnath when that gets released as my replacement and will rule 0 Golos in until then because there aren't any other 5 color landfall commanders.
I don't think Golos is a stronger commander than Urza, Korvold, Kinnan or Chulan... I don't get it
I've built a Korvold Treasures deck and I think it's quite Fair my friend plays Chulane and Kenrith those are too good
@@davidmcgaha7932 I too have a Korvold treasure deck and it tends to kill turn 6 :p
@@nolifeSnorlax are you playing tutors
Neither do I, but those are the strongest only in their colors. Golos is however the strongest in most of the other combinations which stops a lot of commanders from getting played
It's not about strength. It's about diversity. Why play anything other than golos if you are going 5 color and don't have a plan from the get go
if golos was strictly a super solemn, grabbing any land for you when you etb, and did not have the absurd activated ability, or a turned down version of it, golos would have never been banned. and that's the tuned down version that would fulfill a lot of folks. the biggest losses are the lands matter decks focusing on different land wincons. everything else can go and the format will hopefully be helpful
Will be fun to cast worldfire, and have a whole table race the 3/3 from thragtusk.
Lol here i was thinking theyd use teffaris protection then cast worldfire. Honestly im okay with dying like that
Well now my Maze's End deck needs a new commander. Suggestions from the community?
You might just be out of luck for the moment, dude. Y’all who were playing Golos Gates get my biggest sympathies. Y’all were really playing Golos fair.
Child of Alara
Play golos anyway and say it is a mazes end deck. And mention that at the start of games. pretty easy imo
I don't know how many people play on untap, but every time I look at the games list there, there's at least 1 person with the game title "no golos" in the EDH format. Usually though there's 2-4
My favorite thing about Golos is I could just throw together my favorite big janky cards and ramp and make it work in my higher power level games. But now I’m kinda stuck trying out how to be a true Timmy at “casually competitive” table.
“Just throw together jank and ramp and make it work in higher power level games.” Chef’s kiss
If you wanna play a timmy deck use horde of notions as your commander and entomb malestrom wanderer. You can cast him for wubrg and get his double cascade trigger so you dont have to run a bunch of elementals just a few that you abuse from the bin. You could throw in a conspiracy or arcane adaptation and now you can reanimate anything for wubrg. Not as strong as golos but its still powerfull and other players will apreciate that you gotta work a lil for that kinda power.
Your comment, i think... Is exactly why golos deserves the ban.. It's the jack of all trades kinda commander that goes to almost any deck. It hinders players to build their deck in more creative ways. Cuz why bothers taking times and efforts to run a clunky commander in a clunky deck while u can just slap a golos and boom! the deck will run smoothly after that. :/
I play in a commander league where rule 0 isn't a thing because we are playing for prizes so world fire will affect my meta. Plus with treasures and red's rituals Zargo, bell ringer and red commanders with haste will be powerful
IMO it's easier to understand the Worldfire unban once you realize that it's not really a board wipe - it's a combo piece. Anybody who primarily cares about resetting the board state doesn't actively want to set all life totals to 1.
Worldfire does one thing that no other card does: it sets all life totals to 1, while also doing something that could trigger an ability that makes your opponents all lose 1 life. In other words, it's a nine mana spell that combines with one or two other cards in order to win the game on the spot. IMO this is a compelling card to have in the format, considering that there are plenty of other combos that are far more efficient, and other "blow up the whole board" cards that are better for that purpose and which were never banned in the first place.
The puns started coming and they didn't stop coming...
Anyone wanna bet when Tergrid gets the hammer?
I built a tergid deck then within 2 play nights deconstructed it the worst part about this deck is it's cancer for your opponents and it doesn't win quickly
Hopefully
@@davidmcgaha7932 you had to play the deck to realize this? Lol
I'm betting never
Depends on whether Sheldon get's his shit pushed in by the card or not. Cards like Biorhythm and Iona are fairly random picks and it seems like closer to a "blindfold + dart board" decision. I'm certain once the Tiny bones into Waste Not into Tergrid, into Wit's end will just be as hilarious for him as the Tergrid player.
Worldfire + Norin = EZ claps.
Is Kenny or Najeela next? Ive been looking to build one of them for a long time..
I gravely disagree with the golos decision. It maybe the most popular and versitile general, but it doesnt feel overpowered. Kenan and urza are more unbalanced compared to this.
In terms of cheating the commander cost, just take a look of yuriko. This isnt really a justified banning.
I also agree that the Golos decision was dumb. Golos was the most popular commander, but it didn’t feel like the format was warped around it. It’s generic and powerful but doesn’t invalidate other commanders.
@@kendelia9609 As does Derevi. Guess we gotta ban him too.
How will a robust pregame conversation stop anyone from casting Worldfire? There is no reasoning with someone who wants to set the world on fire. It's not a reset button it's a game over button.
Meanwhile in my group it's Puresteel Paliden vs Rofelos so we probably won't be stopping anyone from using Golos
Worldfire ends the game basically, some games take forever or some pll play solitaire. Having a 9 mana spell with 3 mountain in the cost is fine to end the game and plus red needs some love.
Totally agree about Golos. I've seen so many posts and comments today that are some flavor of "but my money!" (you don't have to throw the deck out, you can repurpose those cards in other decks) and "my five color good stuff deck!/my janky Golos gates deck!". The problem with Golos isn't why you are running Golos, it is the question of why aren't you running Golos. When you need to stop and ask yourself why half your decks don't have the same commander, maybe there is something wrong with that commander.
I used to have golos at the head of my planeswalker deck but i switched recently since golos was just too easy to get out of control.
So I don't really care much, but my first reaction is i am still quite surprised with golos being the most popular commander, never played against holos though.
I have; it's annoying, even when playing weird crap like "Oops, All Gods!".
I feel sad for the Gates deck, though
People just got salty over playing against generic goodstuff.
People are dumb
Damn, now I wish I could've seen those mono white Golos decks pre-ban. Even though I more or less agree with the banning itself.
czcams.com/video/S8Di7RDz8ak/video.html&ab_channel=LRRMTG
I present you, the one and only Ben Wheeler
@@nik700 I was going to bring up his deck too.
I built a Golos deck that was a 5 color werewolf tribal deck that utilized tribal enchantments/sorcery and would storm off with cascade and Bolas' Citadel. It won tons of games.
Replace golos with korona
The Golos decks that sucked and the 5 olor goodstuff decks, will all migrate over to Jodah or Ramos or Kenrith. But the interesting golos decks, the mazes end decks, the lands combo, the Dark Depths, the monocolor golos, the Abzan finally has a fun blink commander, those decks are all dead. and that sucks.
Clearly, Golos is leaving on the ban-ana boat.
I have a Cromat Mutate deck, it's really fun and great at protecting itself.
When I teach someone how to play commander I typically make the person a $50 budget deck to get them started. I also ask the person a bunch of questions about what the best deck for them would be. One friend I felt that a group hug deck was most certainly in order. Most of the best group hug commanders were a bit more expensive but then I looked at Golos. It was perfect because on top of being group hug, he had a great win condition built in (Maze end). Now I'm not sure if or how I should tell that friend.
Maybe all of you could give him a group hug? Hehe
Hey Jimmy, yeah sheldon got mad again. He's telling you to stop having fun with cards he doesn't like
Personally I never really had a problem with Golos, I just always thought it was a boring Commander
I am very sad and disagree with the golos ban, but you guys were able to express a reason I think better than the rac. Joey mentions the transparency but to me it still feels very arbitrary when they ban/unban. And I think part of the reason golos was so popular is because he was very forgiving as a commander for new players. Mana base can get very expensive if you are new, but if you are an old player who was able to buy all of the great lands when they were new and cheaper you care less. And golos being better than the ur dragon isn’t very hard, I think Moro phone is much better than UR, same with Tiamat or Ramos. When talking about power levels I think golos is stronger at a higher power level than a lower one.
I'm good with both. If you read Sheldon's note he commented a couple times about wotc getting the message the commanders like golos are a problem and I think the RC went ahead with the ban because they actually expect we won't be seeing a golos 2.0 any time soon, so this ban will mostly close the hole on this generic good stuff commander. As good as golos is, I only really tinkered around with making a deck for him cause he doesn't really have a mechanic that is very fun to lean into.
They're way too over confident in how much influence they think they have over Wizard's. They're acting like Wotc will just cap the 5 color free casting design space and that's INSANELY unlikely.
I love how much more mature and understanding g this video is compared to the commander quarters video
Not just Mitch, this is more measured than basically every other video on the topic
People could just target Golos player first. Morphon gives you 5 color access, and is colorless... so is he next to go? What about Derevi been skirting mana cost for years...
Is urza? My Jodah deck is now named Golos in his honor : /
Golos is definitely an insanely boosted card. Worldfire is a dumb card
Is he so boosted that he's warping the format?
@@bobby45825 He was warping the format, he was the most popular General for the past 2+ years.
@@CapsFan117 That's not what "warping" means. There's always going to be a "most popular commander" and it's not always based on power.
Is this the beginning of RC vs FIRE?
When the mazes end (so sad)
does low to mid level play really need a rules committee? i always thought they were there for competitive and tournament play, now they seem completely irrelevant to me.
I'm surprised Coalition Victory didn't come off the list before Worldfire. Despite the meme, Coalition Victory actually does die to removal, and by turn 7-8 when it'd be dropped, you can safely interact. Worldfire, there's almost no way to finish the game out, it's way worse to play against it than Armageddon. Unless you have access to about 15 mana for the average red Commander.
Personally I don't mind World fire coming back. It gives me the answer to my friend's Lord Windgrace deck. He would always grab that stupid Glacial Chasm and leave the rest of the table to fight it out till he gets a winning combo. Deztroying lands were worthless if you couldn't win in that turn. Need more cards that exile lands.
Realm Razor
18:54 "We believe the social contract and robust pregame discussions will keep Worldfire out of games in which it doesn’t belong." Couldn't this apply to Golos as well?
Lmao no, folks pumped so many resources into golos decks (sometimes multiple) that they wouldn’t switch off. Or had no other decks.
Multiple Golos decks I’m holding my ass laughing
@@jbigs65 I literally have been all-in on Golos for almost as long as he's been available. He gave me the ability to play around with so many deck inclusions and actually made commander fun for me.
Its a lot easier to talk about worldfire, because it is not and will not be everywhere. Golos was. Everywhere you sit down, there is a big chance someone has that deck. Do you really want to be they guy that sits down somewhere and says hey, any of you guys have a golos deck? Yeah f*** that you dont get to play it.
@@bobby45825 haahahhaahaha
So I 'm speaking as a person who has a Golos deck that is north of $3000 in value: I'm happy to see the Golos ban.
I dislike the play pattern that Golos was built in mind with. Get to 5 lands, cast Golos, get land 6, next turn play land 7, activate Golos, rinse, repeat. It makes it so that the cards in your hand are irrelevant when you can just play the top 3 cards of your deck each turn for 7 mana.
You can kill Golos to try and stop this but, they'll just recast Golos, ramp an extra of literally any land, and try again. You almost help the Golos player by killing Golos for them.
I built my Golos deck because I wanted to play 5-color lands and when I built it I told my playgroup (and anybody else I would play with who hadn't played with me before) that I will not activate Golos's 2nd ability. My usual playgroup literally has a voice recording of me saying this in case I ever tried to go back on that. (Which I never have)
Golos rewards poor deck building and promotes a linear, hard to interact with game plan. I believe the format will be all the better to see it go.
p.s.: I will be swapping said Golos deck to BUG Omnath
Thank you for this. Great addition to the arguments given. Ps. Child pf Alara can be a great lands commander? ;-)
If you want you could run 5c horde of notions. So many great land payoffs are elementals and his activated ability is fair but can be busted.
Quality dad-joke-filled opening, guys. Thanks for putting out this video!
Worldfire is a game ender, no problem with it existing. Compared to normal LD spells that just grind the game to a halt, Worldfire "misery" doesn't last long.
Worldfire unbanned ...they do realize they just printed Vadkir Astral Archmage
RC is dumb.
I'm surprised by the banning, but it seems reasonable.
It sucks that there isn't a great replacement for the Maze's End decks, but the good stuff oriented decks have plenty of reasonable backup options.
Golos is one of the ultimate “cop out commanders”
Worldfire feels like a decree of annihilation that's easier to use as a wincon if you're not running superfriends. It's good imo if you're already running MLD
What's the plan to win with mld and how does it work with worldfire
Gate tribal decks now gunna struggle, but urza is okay. In a gates deck his 2nd ability can actually ruin your deck. At least my play group is okay with him. The unban of worldfire doesn't make sense unless you unban all other 9 mana cards that do similar effects. Consistency matters with bans/unbans. If you don't like a certain deck/card talk to your play group or the people you are going to play against. Use rule 0. Also worldfire was sold out on cardkingdom at the time of this post.
Golos is still legal in Historic Brawl on MTGA
I think one of the biggest arguments against banning something like Korvold is that it was in a precon (granted it was Brawl). I think that looks bad.
Trade secrets was in a precon? ;-) I get your point though. I just feel that the commanders where payoff is stapled to enabler, are too 'easy'. Chulane and korvold come to mind.
For banned legendary creatures like golos. There should be a ban as a cmdr but be put in the 99 to at least be able to play the card
I just don't understand the criteria for banning cards. Like you said... everybody was shocked about this. When did this become a problem? Where is the data? What is the criteria to ban it and not other stuff? For a casual format, based on rule zero, I don't really understand why banning cards just because they are powerful. Sure, Golos was powerful for reasons it shouldn't be powerful (like the Dragons example Joey gave) but this is a format to express yourself and playing Golos should be a personal decision and if a group is not ok with that commander/deck, it should be talked within that group.
0:22 Golos is leaving the world on fire
Worldfire teferi's protection
the days have gotten shorter my friends
Lol someone just counters teferis protection but not world fire
I am so ecstatic about this ban announcement, so much so that when a friend of mine first told me that it happened I thought it was an out of season April fool's joke.
When I was significantly younger I remember being barely involved in magic but opening a pack and getting a world fire and being so enamored as to how strange and interesting that card was. To this day it is probably one of my favorite pet red cards that I never get to use. And while I agree with the general masses that land destruction that doesn't immediately follow by a win isn't all that fun gameplay wise world fire has the knee portion of text dropping everyone's life total to one so in the next two or three rounds around the table which should be very quick someone is going to get out a creature and just start knocking players out of the game so it won't last much longer after world fire resolves.
As far as golos is concerned f*** that guy. There is nothing more lackluster in the game to me than something that is so ubiquitous or generically useful that it can be put in any combination of decks and still just be good if not broken. And it's not as though it's a hard card to break. There's probably another 10 or so legends mostly from the past few years that I would also like to see go the way of the golos but this is a pretty damn good start.
I apologize for any typos I'm utilizing speech to text while driving and it's not always the best
Someone said "Sheldon just bans every deck that he loses against." I'm not quite that cynical yet, but I confess I'm getting there.
I have lost confidence in the Rules Committee and their judgement on this one.
I never built a Golos deck, probably never would have, but I disagree wholeheartedly with this ban. You're telling people how to play the game, how to construct their decks, which feels to me like overreach.
"Healthy for the format" is bonkers when you are challenging the single most popular commander. That's at least 7,000 decks that are suddenly "invalid" just because a select group of people think they aren't fun.
How many people did they honestly poll? Clearly not the 7,000 who built those decks.
I agree. Banning golos just caused people to lose a fun commander, and many other powerful commanders are on the potential chopping block as a result.
You have no idea what youre saying. You can still play Golos and anything you want actually, thats why rule 0 exist. Thats up to the playgroup u have.
If you need to complain about someone, complain about them.
man can't wait ... float 12 mana .. cast woldfire, drop sulfuric vortex .. pass turn !
That's not gonna work out for you fam.
@@T_Peazy well the actual way would be to cast vortex, with a way to instant cast worldfire while its on the stack .. worldfire resolves then vortex etb's .. pass turn
@@MrXennhorn yeah. Quicken let's you cast the next spell with flash. So you'd need 14 mana.
13* quicken only costs 1
I swapped golos for esika since my deck was spin the wheel of crazy. Sorry to all the mazes end peeps!
I have never seen a Golos commander in any game, so I would not have banned him. As for Worldfire - my Jeleva deck will love it!
My maze’s end deck died for sandbagger’s sins
Honestly saves me the hassle of building this decks!!!🤷♀️🤷♀️
No deck should have a turn 7 win every game with “summon golos, world tree, game”. This ban was a super healthy ban and those who dont agree just like their busted golos decks. Plenty of other commanders especially for 5 color that are good and more fair for edh. Even ramos (which i have ramos charm tribal) is nerfed in comparison; no free spells no land fetch and only generates mana and gets counters.
I believe there are many ways to stop people winning on turn 7... I mean, it looks like it's far enough into the game
Funniest part to me. They banned ramp and unbanned mass land destruction.
About time :p There is a reason red and white are totally gimped at most edh tables. Land destruction ftw!
I've been wanting Worldfire unbanned for years. Can't wait to pair it with Chandra, Awakened Inferno.
How do you plan to do that? Chandra will be exiled when Worldfire resolves.
@@hunterblessing1595 She will be gone, but her emblems that deal 1 damage to your opponents on their upkeep will not be exiled however.
@@TheBalogna7 Ah I forgot that one has the cheap emblem but won't they just die from not being able to draw a card tho?
@@hunterblessing1595 Worldfire doesn't exile libraries. Only hands, graveyards, and the battlefield. That's why in the video they were comparing it to cards like Decree of Annihilation and Obliteration.
@@TheBalogna7 strange I always thought it said libraries. So it's not as bad as I originally thought but I still don't think it's gonna be very fun to play against if it starts seeing play.
Succinctly put, I can only imagine the sadness and rage every Golos player is feeling. I will recommend each of them try out Jodah though, he is quite fun.
Jodah will not work as a replacement in my deck. I think I'm going to have to basically scratch it and absorb the cards back into my collection.
Ruuuuuuuule zeerrroooooooo
@@Oopsall we play by the actual rules/strict adherence to the banned list in my play group so I won't be allowed to run golos.
@@batmanwins5701 sounds like you need to have a discussion about it then. Adhering to a generic ruleset that is first and foremost intended to be bended and broken is a little silly.
@@Oopsall Im of the mind set that in commander restrictions breed creativity. Im happy to play with the actual ban list. I have 28 decks so if I can't use my golos anymore I'm ok.
All I want is to play Apex of Power into Worldfire and a Dwarven Pony...
Was this sponsored by RC?
Rest in Power, Golas (Naked Man in Polish)