Hamilton and the right mess it's gotten me into
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Does Hamilton challenge or uphold the status quo?
The answer is... a nightmare to work out!
A further reading list, plus a lot of my own writing that was cut out of the final video, is available for $2 patrons: / whatssograce
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To me, Hamilton felt like America fan fiction. It fights against the injustices that can be stomached by the donor class while avoiding more complex and arguably more relevant problems of today
I think in many ways, if possible door open on a lot of conversations that were being had in private but never in the Forefront.
Addio Zio Tom, was a movie that depicted the horrors of slavery in a very graphic way back in the 1970s, but it was rejected by black and white audiences of the time
Finally a critique of Hamilton that acknowledges the awkwardnesses and possible mistakes while not ignoring the power and greatness of the musical. Thank you for always looking at art from many perspectives, and also for always forming your own.
Thank you!
I'm amazed at how quickly you've become my favorite video essayist on CZcams (with Jacob Geller as a very close second). I think your work has filled the void Idea Channel left behind, with your insightful commentary blending academic and popular influences.
This video especially impresses me with its embrace of the nuance around Hamilton's place in our present cultural moment. I think a lessor creator might have addressed the mixed politics but ultimately plowed ahead with their thesis; you're comfortable leaving us with a nebulous argument that honestly reflects the nebulous reality. That shows a tremendous respect for your audience, so thank you.
Thank you so much!
Your notes about the unified human experience is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. And you're right, when people in power talk about "us", the "us" they refer to is usually the Eurocentric, white parts of us.
Yeah, it was something I hadn't really thought about before coming to this topic. Glad I'm more aware of it now!
Corporis is here too!
The janky Presidents/History of America animatronic show at Disney should be totally cheesy but it was one of the highlights of my visit. I was so enthused and inspired. The idea of America is one of history's greatest. It is a truly wonderful story. But that's what it turned out to be, a story.
The opening song shines a spot light on each character as they explain who they are in the story and it's so reminiscent of those janky animatronic shows. I love it! :D
I think the idea of America is not one of the history's greatest. To me it feels more like Americans like to tell that to each other and suppress critics. I do not feel like I can not call anything the greatest, if I know how much history there is. I liked the music in Hamilton though. It is always a story, but some stories are more accurate than others.
@ThisIsMyRealName I appreciate the point you're trying to make, although I feel your use of inclusive terms like "most" and "worst" are a bit misleading. I am proud of my country for the good that it's done, but at the same time I despise all the vile things we've either done personally, or propagated the idea of doing so, to other countries. I think we should try to take pride in the things we can achieve as humans, as a team, instead of worrying about who's the best. But unfortunately, in the grand scheme of things my opinion doesn't matter much.
I mean, the story is pretty lame compared to some other historical narratives. “One of history’s greatest” is a massive stretch. Especially seeing as it’s basically 0% true.
The musical 1776 makes an interesting companion piece to Hamilton, especially through the lens of "hey, what parts of the story haven't been told." 1776 and Hamilton have a LOT in common, being about the founding of the USA, but 1776 doesn't really have any counterculture leanings to it. It does, however, very directly call out basically the entire cast for being slaveowners (or at least profiting from the slave trade) and being hypocritical when the northern colonies try to remove slavery in the declaration of independence. It's amazing, it's a whole musical number. Even as it gets extremely direct, the whole musical is still a basically uncomplicated mythologizing of the events leading up to the signing of the declaration of independence. I'm not sure that America will be ready to deal with something even approaching a "warts and all" history for a very long time.
As a Mexican, born and raised on Mexico, I do not know anything about USA's history, and even so I do love hamilton I feel the same way as you as in I believe that I can separate the musical from the real history a little bit easier than someone who grew up learning about this in school
Europeans: Hamilton? They made a musical about that racing driver?
They made a musical about the mathematician?
Oh, a new video, I'm going to take the opportunity to say that I started following you a few weeks back when a youtuber I follow recommend you, and since then I've been loving every single video you do, can't wait for even more stuff
Thank you so much!
I was so unprepared for a quote from “Always Coming Home” but I’m so here for it! Le Guin is always relevant.
Yes!
I think Hamilton's musical emotional appeal just makes the white history of it worse. The last thing americans need is more moving american mythology. It's all part of the exceptionalism.
Yes to all of this. 👍 Watched Hamilton for the first time on the 4th of July which was quite the moving experience. Spot on analysis.
Thank you!
This is so fantastic and nuanced and well-researched. Much like a novel, it's a whole bag of thoughts, and I'm really glad you shared it with us. Amazing video!
Thank you so much!
The whole unfairly forgotten Founder premise rightfully belongs to Thomas Paine who was a type of Communist and did oppose Slavery without any hypocrisies to explain away.
I was gonna write something about how you put alot of my thoughts on hamilton into words and that this video made me rethink some parts of it, and it did! But honestly right now I'm just thinking 'damn adventure time was so good at philosophy'. Anyway great video as always!!
Haha, thank you! It really was!
FYI, yes Peggy did die in that time between The Schuyler Sisters and Take a Break which is why there was that silence. As did their mother and father around the same time. And of course the events that happen later in the musical.
Also, I wanted to say I'm impressed by how much you push yourself to make these videos better and better every time. Keep it up! 😃
Peggy died in 1801, the same year as Phillip who is age 9 during the song Take a Break, and dies at age 19. The timeline doesn't add up Miranda! Unless Eliza and Angelica have been pleading with Alexander to take a break for 10 years which honestly I'd totally buy 😂
They sing this song every year...
Thank you! :D
@@WhatsSoGreatAboutThat Damn, you're right! That really is a conspicuous silence then; it made so much sense before and now I have no idea because of how intentional it sounds. I've thought that for so long I forgot to actually look it up.
Thanks for the correction
yeh I also feel like I can very easily separate this from real history, looking at it more like mythology, as someone who's not american. I'm swedish and most of what I knew of american history before Hamilton was brief things from american cartoons.
I feel like it says... something, that fans who make animatics and fanart has everyone look like the actors playing their roles rather than drawing the real people who existed.
in a vacuum this is an engaging story with lovable characters, and you kinda wish it wasn't an adaptation of real historical people and events. at least I feel that way
I love it when I find a channel I genuinely enjoy. You've touched on *everything* from the bootstrap ideology rampant in the musical to the exciting combination of hip hop and revolution, to the fallacy of painting black faces on white oppressors and much more. I also enjoyed this musical, but this must be discussed. You've got a new sub!
:D
beautiful work, as always!! i love this conclusion-that we are never at the end of history (okay i know that’s a whole thing but you know what i mean) and how hamilton can remind us of that.
“conclusion” -end of the video, more like, since i do want to echo the comment that voices appreciation for letting this stay nebulous
Thank you!
love this video!!
it's been really interesting to see this Hamilton revival now, in 2020, and comparing it to the discussions I saw happening back in ~2016
Thank you!
Your editing in this video is GOD TIER!!!!
Ahhh, thank you! :D
Quite possibly the most nuanced and interesting take on _Hamilton_ ever. I love it.
Thank you so much!
I had been saving the video for months becuase I hadn't watched Hamilton, but no I think I should have seen it before watching the musical. Great analysis, Thanx!!!
Thank you! I think it's better to have watched Hamilton first so you can have your own experience with it. I know I'm glad I was able to watch the show, thoroughly enjoy it, and then later go... wait a minute...
haha
You excellently express why Hamilton is absolutely the musical embodying our times!! I was a little conflicted with the fan fic hagiography underpinning the musical, despite the songs being outstanding and original.
While listening to the musical I found it interesting contrasting Alexander Hamilton’s depiction with that in the HBO miniseries John Adams. They are so diametrically opposite in almost every way.
Haha, it's all about 'who tells your story'
@@WhatsSoGreatAboutThat very true!!
"Just as we can never gain perspective on our own lives. We can never know the future." Oof. When these lines came up, they just _pummeled_ me at that sweet spot between existentially terrifying & oddly comforting -- which, now that I think about it, is true of a lot of your videos haha. 🤗
Anyway, I loved this, but I suppose that goes without saying. Thank you for sharing!
Haha, I'm happy to exist in that space. :D
Every time you upload a new video a lil spark of happiness makes it’s way through all the other problems of the world, at least for a lil bit
Aw, thank you!
Innuendo Studios mentioned this video. Glad he did!
:D
After finding your channel after the goose video, I have to say you’ve become one of my favourite video essay channels on CZcams. You definitely deserve more views for your rich introspection :)
Thank you so much!
This is a masterclass in using music to accentuate your video, as well as the comedy within.
Absolutely loved this.
Thank you so much! I spend a lot of time trying to find the right music. :D
You're my favorite creator on the platform! You've inspired me to write essays of my own, however amateur mine may be, it's been a great learning experience. Taking time to appreciate concepts and productions in far more intricate ways has created a bit of a catharsis. (I also got to use the word Atopic which was rad as fuck).
Thank you so much! That's so great to hear. :D
I have been meaning to watch this.
As always love your editing and especially the rhyme right after the pun.
Haha, thank you! :D
This was great. And, as a multiracial American, thanks for giving my country some hell with this video. You colonizers aren't so bad!
Haha, thank you! :D
Thanks innuendo studios for sending me here!
My only frame of reference for Hamilton is this one time at my friends house my friends little sister was in the room telling her gran how much she loved Hamilton. Gran knew it was a musical but didn’t know how much rap was involved and asked her to sing something from it. She really didn’t want to rap for gran but didn’t want to make her sad by saying no. Long story short gran was not impressed and it was really awkward.
Haha, she could have sung Burn!
I haven't seen Hamilton and haven't really felt a strong desire to, but this feels like one of the most balanced feeling takes on it that I've seen. It kinda makes me wanna watch it.
Haha, thank you :D
May or may not have talked about this with my therapist... more than once.
What's so great about a thorny issue that requires much mental picking at? Plenty!
:D
I understand where you're coming from. I'm from the United States of America. I was raised with the Idolizing of the founding fathers. However, history is something that I find fluid in a presentation. Having been raised in a Christian cult, and de-converting to an atheist, I am very wary of the use of media and such to indoctrinate people into a certain ideology. I think that Hamilton is clever in that it both uses and subverts what you call "white history" to mix the cultures. It's more subtle than just telling people that their history is full of bad things. That usually gets people antagonistic to the message. With my family, they demonize me all the time for this, but I generally present their biblical historical scenarios in a matter that is divorced from the glorified and sanctimonious and paint the ugliness that I see. This is offensive to them, and honestly, I know it. It is actually wrong of me to do this because it shuts them down. It is so unappealing that they mentally are incapable of hearing me. They have been programmed to not discuss religion with those critical of their faith. This is very similar, I find, too much of the ingrained prejudice and idolatry of historical figures, such as the founding fathers.
Hamilton is a place to reflect, I agree. The united states need to do a lot of self-reflection. I hope that we take the self-reflection seriously.
Just finished my first watch through of this video, going to stew in its glorious juices for a while before I inevitably watch again. You set the bar for video essays.
Thank you so much!
We can change their races, no problem! But giving women agency? That’s historically incorrect and should be excluded from this very accurate show. :|
Hey Gracie, watching your videos has been quite delightful in these very trying times. Keep up the good work
Thank you!
this is so absurdly good, I'm still reeling. Thanks so much for this. I think you really nailed the complexity of embracing Hamilton as profoundly true on an emotional and human level, while also being profoundly troubling in the history it perpetuates. I hadn't considered how powerful it is that this piece invites the audience to reexamine our cultural narratives, even though it may not reexamine them quite far enough.
Founding Fathers: we're the Daddy of all Daddy Issues
God: hold my extremely large beer
I've been making my way through the Inside Cinema series recently on iPlayer and was pleasantly surprised to come across your episode on miniatures. Cool you contributed to that!
Ah yeah! Sneaking my way around the web, haha.
Wow, this musical came out more than 4 years ago and I'm still yet to see it. I just want time to slow down a bit.
Don't we all, man... don't we all
I'm curious about your point about Hamilton and time/structure! Mostly because using non-linear time (within a linear story) is pretty common in musicals. I mean, in She Loves Me (which has a very simple, linear plot), there's a song to condense all of December into five minutes, both to move along plot and to create the stress and pressure of what retail is like during Christmas. The way you talk about it, it feels like Hamilton's playing with time is part of what makes it more subversive, and to me, it felt a little like just thoughtful analysis of the musical as a form. And I do think that Hamilton is what it is because it's a musical, and because it uses all the benefits of the form in tricky little ways, but I don't know if we can just give it the credit because of that. Also, unrelated, but I love that Ursula K. Le Guin essay, one of my favorites.
Yes, it's definitely a musical thing! But I thought that was interesting in relation to telling history and what the musical format means as a medium for this story. You're right though, I'm not sure if we can give Hamilton credit for a lot of the things I talked about, haha. I just think it's interesting anyway. :D
Is it my imagination or am I detecting some Lindsay Ellis references?
I didn't makes any conscious references but I do watch her videos. I actually hadn't seen her "most white washed character in history" video until last week and it uses the same balloons/confetti joke that I'd unknowingly used in this and I was like "damn it, Lindsay!" haha
I just keep thinking about that cutaway gag of Funky Phantom in Harvey Birdman. 👉😎👉
Fantastic breakdown. I just recently watched the play and had similar hang-ups about it. I saw several people objecting to the story and claiming that instead of casting white people with brown actors, they should have added the stories of black people at the time. I think I disagree with that. Bogging down a play with more characters just to add more historical stories wouldn't help Hamilton because that isn't the point, I think. Hamilton works because it's a re-appropriation of a white story by brown people. The story of the founding fathers is always going to be romanticized, either to glorify or demonize the historical figures. There will never be such thing as a truly accurate retelling of such a mythologized story. What we can do, however, is reframe the myth to draw comparisons to modern revolutions, to modern struggles to build the best country we can, and to the hope we have in the next generation. At the end of the day, I don't think it matters (in the scope of this particular story) that Washington and Hamilton weren't really anti-slavery or the play isn't truly accurate. What matters is that this version of the American myth puts the struggle for equity for everyone at the forefront, and that's pretty important.
I read a really good description of the difference between gen z and millennials using Hamilton. Millennials try to work within the current system to try and improve it while Gen Z are actively trying to dismantle it as it needs to be built from the ground up
So Hamilton is the Millennial working within Broadway trying to add diversity and new styles of music but still tied down with inaccessibility to large diverse audiences the prices a Broadway show choose to have
While gen z are creating musicals directly on CZcams and ignoring Broadway and their rules and gatekeeper ways
Generation Z contributed to the popularity of "Hamilton."
The musical also gained popularity by releasing its soundtrack before it became available on streaming platforms.
11:39 Yes actually I think that in real life history Peggy died pretty young (I think? My mother read the book and when we watched the play together she would always be like, "that's actually true!" and go on these tangents lol)
She did, but she would have been alive at the point in time that scene occurs, pretty sure I fact checked that joke haha
Thank you for analyzing this show! I’m new to this channel but love the content!!
Came here from Innuendo Studios! This is cool
Whoa, a revolution of perspective
I rarely comment on videos, but damn if these essays don't bring me life. Keep it up!
Thank you so much!
The founding fathers is the daddy issue of daddy issues!
Brilliant.
Love it
Hope you are going to make more incredible video essays like this
Thank you, I'm working on it!
I feel blah about most musicals I've seen but Hamilton is one of the most insanely well written, musically and especially lyrically. when it is inevitably performed by white high schoolers in Oklahoma, it will still be amazing and meaningful. the problem with the US founding myth is not that it is not accurate, it definitely isn't real, imo it needs to adapt to a different vision of America. if it is a myth, let it be a good myth rewritten by the people who have chosen to come here and love it for what it can be. I want LMM to bring me with him to the future he sees in this new history. I just think you want that POC to do more heavy lifting than any one artist can do in one musical.
I should probably watch Hamilton now.
Grace's videos have consistently been getting better since the start of the channel, but lately they've been getting funnier and funnier in particular.
Ahh, thank you! :D
Okay, wait. Do People actually critizise Storys about what their storys are? I mean it is a retelling of the American Revolution, where most people where White. Should we now say: « Those people were all white and owned slaves so we will never talk about them again » or « Allthough this is a fantastic storyy, and a super musical it is set in a time where most people in power where white so it is total shite » ?
History is not over. There IS an alternative.
This is very well-written. Just one quibble- Hamilton wasn’t an immigrant, he was born in colonial territory and as a young man moved to the mainland colonial territory. At that time he wouldn’t have been viewed as an immigrant so much as someone who came from elsewhere in the then-empire. I loved your video, good job.
To be honest this is more interesting than real history because at least at the end I don’t have to get graded on it
Yay! another video!
Hope you are doing great
Thank you! :D
Hope you are too!
Obligatory "Ian sent me"
Obligatory "thank you Ian"
Have you seen Renegade Cut's essay on the cult of tradition? Because it is hard to understate the cultishness of how America mythologizes the founders (and westward expansion)
Yes, I have! Great video
14:00
^this is a bookmark
Not familiar with the show, but judging by the music here I'd say if Lin-Manuel Miranda ever heard actual hip-hop he'd run away screaming.
Haha, this is the consensus I've heard from hip-hop listeners.
Your thesis in this one sounds like a postmodern McLuhan “the messages are the medium”
Haha!
Powerful and insightful
That last quote got to me… damn…
You're really good at this.
AND PEGGYY!!
I'm sorry to point out such a detail, have you noticed how the women's pants are tight, and the men's ones are loose ? A strange choice indeed
i really liked the editing in this!
Me too omg
Innuendo Studios recommended this video, but the narration is so mumbly and that I honestly can't get more than a few minutes in.
Any other Danielewski readers that recognized the Only Revolutions reference?
I can’t think of anything to say.
This was pretty good. Honestly.
I am watching your channel for very recently and I saw you did some videos on videogames ,so why not try dark souls
Great video, as always. This makes a great compliment, as another take, on the many, many, way too many Hamilton videos that are out now.
There is something strange (and obviously problematic) with "American Exceptionalism".
I am an American, but one that tries to see the forest through the trees.
Many american's personal identity is founded on: that this is such a great country and has been since all of our founding father made it so, blah, blah, blah. So much so; that that is what they want taught in school (not necessarily the truth or facts or real history or any of that rubbish). We have this odd premise that to be great today, than we must have always been great and that is part of why we are great today, and look: our white washed history proves that! right? :)
So we focus more on the "Founding Fathers" than the land theft, the genocide, the slave labor, female oppression, manifest dipshittery, etc. etc. But of course even our Founders were mostly terrible people too. Most of our choices in history were of the wrong ones, or lagged behind the times.
We were just very lucky that after the World Wars we ended up in a position of power without needing to rebuild our country, so to get ahead and stay ahead has been way too easy for us -- and so we think well it must be due to our hard work as Americans -- not that it just fell in our lap, or that all the great people who come here to make our country even greater, like Einstein and millions of others. Or the women and people of color that never got credit for pushing science and technology to give us yet another edge.
so we have this delusion that this is the greatest country ever, blessed by God, and such.
Well we are blessed in many ways -- not that we deserved it.
And there is so much opportunity and resources here that our success just breeds more success, despite all of our bad habits.
I do love my country, but I am not blind to all her flaws.
We're Number One!
(But not in yuh know: literacy rates, personal liberty, or economic equality, or human rights, nutritious food, cost effective medicine, any metric accept sugar induced diabetes).
But we're number one! For sure.
I am proud to 'call' my self an American, but only a fool would be actually be proud to 'be' an American.
Unless you came from somewhere else to make a different life -- then YOU actually deserve to proudly call your self an American (no matter the legality of how you came here, or whether you got you citizenship or not), at least more so than all of us spoiled white brats that were born here.
And to all my fellow Americans of color, yeah we should all be terribly sorry for like the last 500 years. I hope you, your friends and family, and decedents help us actually make this country that we could be proud of.
And maybe things like Hamilton are just a baby step in the right direction to help us continue to look at racial and gender inequity and so many other things. I embrace the "colorizing" of our mythology. Why not.
Hell, I wish we had better representation in all forms of media. Black Jesus, Asian Superman, Hispanic President, Gay Santa Clause, Female Doctor Who. bring it all on -- sounds fun. :)
Is your name Philip? are you a poet?
Did you make this vid just to show it?
12:46 when will you get into that ?
it was the most interesting part of this video to be honest.
I loved it.
About Peggy, yes, yes she died.
You mean she isn't 262 years old?! What a disappointment
Wow hamilition been thrown In the trash a lot in this video.
I did so many takes too, so probably like 30 time haha
This is a great essay.
Also this reminded me how Alex Nichols blamed Hamilton for Trump's election 😆
Thank you!
Haha, that's a lot of weight to put on the shoulders of a musical.
@@WhatsSoGreatAboutThat no prob!
As a fan of the musical I am happy that it has sprung a lot of discussion in how it ties to the current
+
AH
Amazing. Please, keep in mind Lin Manuel is not white. People do that all the time.
People think Lin Manuel Miranda is white? That's weird.
@@WhatsSoGreatAboutThat I thought you said he was a white man, I must have misunderstood you. Nevermind this comment, then
But now that we're on topic, yeah, people tend to label white-passing POC as white if they get rich.
@@TheGoblinoid Oh, at the beginning when I was talking about mixing white people and hip hop? I meant Alexander Hamilton, haha. Whoops, should have made that clearer!
@@WhatsSoGreatAboutThat Nah, it was my bad, the video rules.
*Minorities make a play*
The internet - this play supports/ignores systemic racism and sexism!
So even if I'm a minority I have to somehow work past my race thing, the systemic barriers to success and so much more. And THEN I have to make sure my liberal brothers sign off on everything I do. C'mon, do people give the Avengers this kinda stress? Did anyone care about this with Harry Potter?
Or maybe hitting Hamilton is just a way to start current. And you're more likely get people watching. And the algorithm, and monetization, yada yada.
You really had no business trying to analyze hamilton so separate from American life
Edit: I can already tell y'all are going to be mad about this so all I ask is that you read the comments before adding your own
What?
@@Gloomdrake @ThisIsMyRealName hamilton is incredibly seeped in american culture, and trying to create an analysis while removing that bias just completely cuts off all chance of getting to the root of things. Like how current analysis of greek plays are totally different from how they were originally analyzed. By treating hamilton as seperate from a culture, especially from a white european stance, it makes it impossible to actually hear what it's saying as a work.
So we've finally gotten to the point where if you aren't born in a certain country you can't analyze any work of art that comes out of it? You might as well just tell all video essay channels to fucking pack it in.
You better get to learning dozens of languages since you will only listen to any critics that come from those countries.
D Deegan The average American has no idea who the founders really were under all the glitter
@@Gloomdrake Yes, and I think that should be part of an analysis about hamilton