Obscure Transit: San Diego MTS
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2023
- Lets take a look at San Diegos transit agency MTS! This agency operates the busiest light rail system in the US and often gets overlooked by other cities with light rail networks. With a very historic past and an optimistic future who knows how good MTS will be! Obscure Transit is a series covering transit systems in North America that often don't get the attention or respect they deserve!
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I’m often impressed by how many places in Can/US have trains and transit… we just need more and better!
I the opposite. I amazed how many northbAmerican cities have nothing at all. Like my moms hometown Indianapolis- 850,000 people and they don’t even have a good bus system for real. I can remember waiting over an hour for a bus in the summers when I would go stay with my Grandad. Luckily I grew up inDC which has very good for North America transit. We have too many big cities (Houston I’m looking at you!) that have barely any transit at all. Can’t speak in Canada, but most cities are not even San Diego good- like Los Angeles smh.
@@JimBrownskiIndianapolis is pretty walkable though, It’s more walkable than columbus and cincinnati.
However Chicago is the one of the best midwestern cities.
@@aimxdy8680 Not if you live around Watson -Mccord or ANYWHERE on the East side....Like I said that's my second home (Mom's hometown) - that city is only walkable in certain communities - OF course out west by the Colts Facility and the lakes, Broad Ripple, etc. Indianapolis is too damn big to have such an abysmal public transit....It's literally one of the 10 biggest cities in America by land Area. You could Fit DC, Baltimore and Boston inside Indy and still have room to spare . That city ain't compact like the three I mentioned, you need public transportation like yesterday there.
@@aimxdy8680 Also Cincy is much more Walkable than Indy. Nowhere near as big and many great walkable communities....Now Columbus yes you got them beat - but both are criss crossed by too many highways (i Mean Indy and Columbus). No one would consider Indy as a whole Walkable...People live in their bubbles . Now downtown has come a LONG way from when I was a kid - we never went there until they rebuilt Union Station. Downtown Indy let me give it credit is actually a great place to walk around, but so much of the city can't get to it without a car!!
@@aimxdy8680nah I’d say Cincinnati is more walkable in comparison to Indy. I know cuz I’ve been to both and from Indianapolis myself. Mainly downtown and Broad Ripple are the walkable parts of the city, the rest are much more car centric since Indianapolis is one of the most spread out cities
As someone who’s looking into UCSD for college, knowing San Diego’s transit system is solid makes me feel a bit better. Thanks!
Triton here! It’s not perfect but the Trolley is definitely useful and enjoyable. Students ride free, too!
Yeah it’s not perfect at all, but as a student it will work great for you. Not everything is connected, but enough is connected that you can plan your housing, work, and school around trolley access.
its far from solid. it doesn't serve anything east in the south bay.
It’s not great considering the size of the city/county
My in-laws live around Fairbanks Ranch, and in classic NIMBY rage, they were NOT happy about the Trolley extension up to UCSD and UTC, since it'd make it easier for riff raff to make their way up north. *sigh*
I would like to point out the Blue Line runs every 7.5 minutes all day on weekdays on the southern half of the line, between America Plaza and San Ysidro.
The Southern Blue Line might be the most frequent single off-peak LRT service in the nation (by "single" service I mean an individual line--interlining your way to 7.5 minute frequencies doesn't count!)
Wtf I assumed all the lines just had 15 min freq...I just moved here and use the Green/Orange lines from Grossmont
@@alexhaowenwong6122 Houston red line have a headway of 6 mins during weekdays. Although it is not a good thing to Houston: the short platform length and poor grade separation made the line run at capacity already
In addition, Blue line will have peak hours frequency at 7.5min throughout the whole route starting 2025!
I rode the original Blue Line in 1980! We were all so excited that it finally opened. My mom liked to joy ride the Trolley. She did that whenever she could until she passed away in 1982.
Ha! We used to ride it down to the border all the time when it opened, too!
Note on fares: MTS uses a fare capping method. You never pay more than $6 in a day or $72 in a month, there is no actual way to get day/month fare.
Blown mind😅 😲
I was impressed by how FAST these trains run and how practically designed the routes are.
Practical if you're a tourist or going to/from downtown. As most politicians, the decision-makers are downtown centric. Note after 3+ decades they STILL don't connect to the airport. Even so, from my former in-town apartment, I'd have to first go downtown, then transfer to the proper line and go back out & around to get to the airport.
The tourist/hotel/taxi lobbies rent politicians by the year.
What about orange line? That line does not have much grade-separation and might be slower than blue and green line
Nice video 😊 you don’t usually get San Diego featured in a video on transit.
Couple of positive add-ons to what you said:
-MTS uses a system where they automatically will convert your tap to a day pass or monthly pass so that you’re always paying the lowest price.
-MTS is planning on implementing a direct pay with credit cards so you will no longer need a pronto card to ride.
-The city has special zoning for transit-oriented development around trolley stops, so over time there will hopefully be more housing and walkable developments near the stops. A lot of the stops in the green line in mission valley are benefiting from this, with big transit-oriented development plans there on either side of the mall
Couple of weaknesses for the system:
-Many of the lines run along highways and so the stops only give access to those on the correct side of the highway.
-The blue line doesn’t really connect to La Jolla as you mentioned. It connects to UCSD. Many of the wealthier cities in the area resist public transit and denser housing efforts unfortunately. Case and point: it doesn’t go to Uptown San Diego, Balboa Park, or to any of the beach cities.
-Many San Diegians view public transit as dangerous and bad, without actually knowing how to use it. This leads them to resist efforts to move away from car dependency, such as making walkable streets by retrofitting roads for bike and transit infrastructure, etc.
-SANDAG has kind of been a mess with politics between San Diego and the transit-hostile smaller cities. I didn’t realize most of the trolley was built under an independent planning agency… maybe we should bring that back.
While SANDAG is a mess, I think they are moving in the right direction toward good transit. If nothing else, I hope the state keeps good on its word and forces SANDAG to implement a climate-friendly plan (on threat of revoking state funding) which so far looks pretty promising, as seen in the 2021 plan and so far in the 2025 plan, there is a ton of transit expansion, and no freeway widening (though some interchange upgrades.) The biggest issue in all of this is securing funding, which I doubt the city of San Diego would do much better.
The Blue Line stops at Nobel Drive, within the boundaries of La Jolla. It also stops at Washington Street, which I would define as uptown. I would also count the Balboa station as servicing Pacific Beach.
@@jamesburns755 while the line may technically pass through the areas you mentioned, I use the trolley and bus system as my primary means of transportation and when going to La Jolla proper the only real way to get there is by car or bus. Same thing for Pacific Beach. True connection to the trolley system would mean a stop in downtown La Jolla and PB near the beach.
@@kiddjim I still think what was said in the video is accurate-it stops within the boundaries of La Jolla. It's right across from University City which has some of the highest density tracts in the county, so I don't think SANDAG was wrong by putting that station where it is. DT La Jolla has great bus service.
@@jamesburns755agree to disagree I guess. I’m not saying the trolley stops were wrong, I’m saying the blue line is great to get to UCSD and UTC, but when I want to go to La Jolla I end up driving because it would take far too long to use the bus or trolley. Like a lot of the county there are smaller denser patches that are walkable and the public transit is ok for getting around the immediate area, but it is not great trying to get between these areas without a car. Put another way, I would not recommend using the trolley to get to most of what there is to do in La Jolla if someone asked me how to get there.
I love this trolly, I ride it and the buses from PB to SDSU every week!
I live in Bankers Hill and use the trolley quite frequently. Along with my e-bike, the trolley allows me to travel nearly everywhere I need to go within the San Diego area quite easily.
Which e-bike did you go with? I’ve been looking at options and visited Electric Bike Central. Leaning either specialized vado or one of the gazelle brand models. Not sure what’s better for San Diego hills and streets but I’ve ridden my analog around various parts of town.
SD native here. The airport situation is SOOO frustrating because the tracks run parallel to the outer fenceline to the point where you can observe planes lining up on runway 27 approximately 300 feet from the actual trolley. Furthermore the airport operates free busses from the terminal to the rental car center which is literally adjacent to the line. My idea is to make a dedicated infill station which would provide a safe (24/7 security presence) indoor climate controlled area which would serve as a transfer conduit to the airport bussway (effectively a mini BRT system). The airport busses run on a dedicated private roadway which is completely gated and fenced off and are not generally subject to the traffic problems on harbor and pacific highway. While not as convenient as a direct rail to terminal setup, this would be relatively easy to set up as most of the infrastructure already exists and would generate a ton of ridership if well marketed as a simple and safe transfer experience, I wish they would do this while SANDAG comes up with a direct rail solution. The rail solutions consist of extending the trolley itself to the terminals via tunnel or elevated (and possibly point loma as well) or doing the peoplemover system to either old town or santa fe depot. The issue is the direct rail solutions are in the billions as there is no way to avoid tunneling and going through the coastal commission, a dedicated airport station near where the current middletown stop is would be ideal in the interim, you can technically already use this transfer as the airport bussway has a stop across pacific highway from the station but this is not very safe given how busy Pacific highway is and how sketchy the area can be due to the homeless crisis in our region. I have sources at the airport authority and they have actively tried to get MTS to rename the Middletown station to "Airport" to entice people to use the airport BRT. MTS's own bus line does NOT use private roads and is subject to the very heavy traffic on harbor dr.
Almost daily MTS rider here. They need to build the proposed Purple line, a north-south line along I-805 that can get you north of downtown without actually going downtown. Last I heard there was a squabble over whether it would be another light rail line or a heavy rail line.
I take this to work each day and my work pays for it.
10000X better than traffic on the 805 or I-5
I live in San Diego and this video is great
The MTS is surprisingly good for an average American city like San Diego
I thought the frequencys are bad but only in the outer suburbs like where I live, but in other parts of the region they are actually pretty good.
It's nice how you can get to lots of cool destinations on transit in SD, the rail system is great
I hear lots of people complain about how the system is dangerous but in all my time riding it it's always been really safe
The payment system is pretty good, SANDAG runs the pronto card and there is free rides for under 18 so I can go anywhere in the county (MTS and NCTD routes) for free
San Diego lore: The first European to visit the region was explorer Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo. Cabrillo claimed the bay for the Spanish Empire in 1542, and named the site "San Miguel". In November 1602, Sebastián Vizcaíno was sent to map the California coast. He named the area for the Catholic Saint Didacus, a Spaniard more commonly known as San Diego de Alcalá. Before them, the indigenous Kumeyaay established villages scattered across the region, including the village of Kosa'aay which was the Kumeyaay village that the future settlement of San Diego would stem from in today's Old Town.
In the early part of the 20th century, San Diego hosted the World's Fair twice, the 1915 Panama-California Exposition and the California Pacific International Exposition in 1935. Both expositions were held in Balboa Park, and many of the Spanish/Baroque-style buildings that were built for those expositions remain to this day as central features of the park. The buildings were intended to be temporary structures, but most remained in continuous use until they progressively fell into disrepair. Most were eventually rebuilt, using castings of the original façades to retain the architectural style. All the exotic animals featured at the 1915 exposition provided the basis for the San Diego Zoo.
I thought it was discovered by the Germans in 1910
The Airport APM plan you mentioned is even better than it seems. SANDAG has said the APM would come every 2 minutes and would be expandable past the airport into Liberty Station, Sports Arena. APMs aren't just used for airports. The same VAL technology used on the Chicago O'Hare APM is used on Taipei Metro's 15-mile Wenhu Line, which runs through dense, urban areas. So the APM is really an automated rubber-tyred light metro.
San Diego also has some impressive infill TOD, even outside of Downtown. SDSU Mission Valley will have 4,600 dwellings, 1.6M sq ft office space, a 400 room hotel, 100K sq ft retail, on top of a 35K-seat MLS stadium. Best of all, it's directly connected to SDSU main campus by LRT, which should generate massive ridership.
An APM connection to the light rail system is not a good option.
You can argue if this technology is suited for a fully fledged mass transit line (and the fact that there only one line in the whole world is a pretty good argument against it) but the problem is not just the technology but the fact that they want to use an APM, which, as the name suggests, is meant to move people locally for short distances, like between terminals. Once you use it to connect to the actual transit mode you force people to make an unnecessary change after a short ride, which is not a good thing in any situation but even less with luggage, but you keep doing this in the US, with the last awful example is the $2B APM in LAX.
Just extend the light rail line into the airport like any other normal airport other airports around the world (and even a handful in the US) do.
@@AL5520 SANDAG has studied MTS' Trolley to Airport Concept and found it would cost almost as much to build as the APM but would run only every 15 minutes. 15 minute frequencies for an under-10-minute ride from Downtown to the airport is unacceptable. MTS' Trolley Airport branch would interline with existing Blue and Green Lines, limiting frequency and reducing reliability. on the Mid Coast and Green Lines.
Key difference between LAX and San Diego's APM is that San Diego's APM will run straight into Downtown.
@@alexhaowenwong6122 First of all you should ask yourself why it can only run every 15 minutes but even if it´s the maximum right now it can be improved in the future. In any case, the "trolley" much more capacity and you can get a far longer one seat ride for more people. Besides, you have two trolley lines passing near the airport and only crazy land connecting them (both) would cost more than a new APM one to downtown.
I've looked at those plans, the one to downtown is just one of the options, and in the end, like in LAX, it will probably end in the car rental center near the airport.
Wasting money on such a project instead of connecting to the existing system can only be considered as a good thing in the US.
@@AL5520 Here's why the Trolley won't run anywhere as frequently as the APM:
1. Branching. MTS' airport Trolley concept will branch off the existing Green and Blue Lines via a...
2. ...Flat Junction.
3. Signalling. The Trolley uses fixed-block, not moving-block, signalling.
4. Operating Costs: MTS has $50M annual operating deficits. The Airport Trolley would require drivers; the APM would not.
5. Street-running Downtown Trolley tracks: Transit Signal Priority cannot operate reliably if traffic signals cannot predict when Trolleys will arrive at intersections because there's so many cars and pedestrians crossing the tracks. The alternative would be...
6. ...Spending $2B+ on a Downtown rail tunnel that still wouldn't be able to reliably handle more than around 24 trains per hour that would be split among the Green, Blue, and Airport Lines, for 7.5 minute frequencies per line.
The APM could actually move more people per hour per direction (pphpd) than the Trolley. Each Trolley has 3 cars, each with 184 passengers, for 552 passengers per train. Given 16 Trolleys per hour, that's 8,832 pphpd. A four-car APM train (APMs carry about 100 people per car) would carry 400. Given 30 APMs per hour, that's 12,000 pphpd.
Yes, some of plans feature a leg that would end at the car rental center. But SANDAG is increasingly moving towards the South Leg APM option that would go straight from the airport to Downtown with no stop at the rental car center.
@@alexhaowenwong6122 You keep giving me reasons but all of them are the exact reason why your transit sucks.
If the trolley system is so horrible fix it. If you want a newer system build a new automated metro line that will serve the city and the airport and start working on converting the other "horrible" trolley lines into a full fledged metro. What you want to do is to waste $2B-$6B on e new shiny transit system that all it does is bring people to/from the airport when the only consideration is "how fast it will be for the people that uses the airport.
Build an extension for the trolley that will go every 15 minutes (a very reasonable frequency in many parts of the world and certainly in the US) with far higher capacity and use the rest to start improving the existing lines. Give them priority, change the signaling system, extend them and build new ones, light rail or better.
One of the main problems in most of the US is that you tend to ditch "old" for the new and shiny while the rest of the world improves and upgrades existing infrastructure.
New infrastructure should serve new parts of the city, not the same areas that are already served by the existing system.
no way san diego
youtube recommended your video to my homepage
I'm still rooting for the purple line and one through mid city the most
Thank you for this! I love seeing san diego get featured in a transit video!
I used to live right next to the new terminus of the blue line in UTC! It was amazing. I still ride it a few times a week and you can use to it get all the way to Petco Park for Padres games!
You could have also mentioned the proposed Purple Line. Its probably a few decades off still, but the plan is to connect Otay Mesa by the boarder up to the business centers in Kearny Mesa. Now we just need to find a way to get SANDAG to fund it!
I live in Los Angeles County. Before 9/11, we would occasionally go to San Diego for the weekend, usually including a day trip to Tijuana. It was so easy! We would catch the train (trolley) to the border, walk across the pedestrian overpass, and catch a cab to downtown Tijuana for $5. Just reverse it on the way back. No two-hour wait times to get across the border as with driving.
I’ve never understood why they wouldn’t want to expand the light rail to the American entrance of the Tijuana airport. It seems like a no brainer and would benefit both the airport and San Diego since SAN is realistically over capacity lol i think a cross border service into Mexico is just asking for logistical issues they already stop right next to the border i think the airport extension to the US side of the airport makes the most sense.
Good point. Service to the US side parking for TIJ seems much more reasonable than the cross border service they are apparently planning.
Purple line is planned to go there
Been thinking the same. Glad someone else out there agrees
@@tylerkochman1007 Tijuana is not known as the safest or most tourist friendly place anyway i genuinely do not see the point unless the Mexican government is trying to throw in money. If CA/the federal government is funding the entire project it should be a hard no, that money should be used for San Diego. Also imagine border checks for an entire train on a frequent timetable i dont see it happening even Canada border crossings are a bit of a mess and they get like 1 train a day 😂
@@damnimloomin you seem unfamiliar. There’s a border crossing that allows you to enter an airport located in Mexico. A train to there would not cross the border. You’d get out before the border. So no checks would need to be done on the train.
Nor would anyone not using the airport be crossing from Mexico over to the US side, so not sure how the crime in Tijuana holds ANY relevance.
The trolley is pretty great . Since SD is still a car-bound area, their plentiful parking is really useful as a connector to other areas w/o having to rely on buses. I simply drive to the trolley station, leave my car, then ride to either Tijuana for Dr. Appts, to Downtown for fun/work, and the reverse to go home. It's pretty neat.
Impressive to integrate transit and driving in California. Cheers
SAN DIEGO MENTIONED RAHHH🔥🔥🦅🦅
I live in San Diego, they should fund more into bus and light rail. I live super close by Balboa transit center and always take the trolley to petco park or downtown/old town. Much easier to than waiting in traffic, plus it gives me a headache trying to navigate downtown 😫
I grew up in Mira Mesa, so the trolley was never relevant to me. I've only rode it once, and that's because I wanted to try it out. It would be amazing to have a city-wide network.
Whenever I come to San Diego for visiting family, I always take rides on this system. It's a great system with great trolleys from Siemens.
Living close to the Old Town station, there's a lot to like about the trolley system. The trains are clean. They run about every 20 minutes (striving for every 15) and the stations are generally really nice. I'll also add that the monthly pass gets you access to *all* buses and *all* trolley lines - the only thing you miss out on are ferries to Coronado or trains heading north to the rest of the Amtrak network. The Airport Flyer from Old Town is free and comes relatively often, bypassing most traffic with airport service roads.
As with all American transit though, there are shortcomings. I can get almost anywhere in SD between 10-30 minutes in a car, but those same trips can take 30-90 minutes via STS. It's mostly because of the reduced frequency and difficulty getting to stations. Though I live close to one of the most active stations, the ways to Old Town are not pedestrian-friendly. Rosecrans street, depending on when you're riding, is not a safe cycling road and has no protected biking infrastructure. Old Town is notorious for poor car infrastructure as well, with cars getting stuck on train tracks during rush hour due to poor intersection design. Buses get stuck in traffic like everything else and there are a number of students (middle school through college) that depend on the buses every day, which can overwhelm or lag the system that functions in 20-30 minute intervals. When school is out, the demand plummets and service frequency tends to drop in the early summer. Compound all of that with a homelessness crisis, MTS strikes and employment shortages, and a serious lack of access to North/East/South of downtown or through wealthier neighborhoods, and it's a system that still has a long way to go to get to where it was 100 years ago.
Let’s gooooooooo!!!!! SAN DIEGO MENTIONED
6:30 -- Um, actually: The best bus connection to San Diego airport is the FREE shuttle from Old Town station, which is served by the Blue and Green trolley lines, along with Coaster and Amtrak passenger trains. As a stand-alone service, the shuttle is optimized for airline passengers carrying luggage.
Old Town is the real transfer/transit station. Santa Fe Depot is a parking lot for sleeping trains.
I think the coolest thing about the San Diego light rail system is that the San Ysidro station ends right at the border. Really awesome to be able to take a day trip down to Tijuana purely using public transit. My only gripe with the system, from my few visits there, is that it feels like much of San Diego is still inaccessible from the network. Even Balboa Park, one of San Diego's biggest tourist attractions, requires a transfer to a bus. And anything east of the park you might as well just take an uber, which is a shame since it seems like a light rail line there would have a pretty sizeable catchment of commuters.
If you're able to get an e-bike, combining it with the trolley will make getting around the San Diego area very easy.
Park Blvd & El Cajon Blvd are just BEGGING for a trolley line that would connect 12th/Imperial to SDSU. There is a Rapid bus line along there which is certainly better than nothing.
@@m8852Yup I have done this for a couple months (just moved here) and works well with the hilly terrain. I can bike around downtown on 2 way separated bike paths and travel from downtown to the beaches on mostly trails, except between Liberty Station to Old Town.
when we lived in san diego a few years ago i was baffled that the airport still wasnt connected to the santa fe depot when theyre so close. unlike here in los angeles where lax is far from any major activity hubs, but we hopefully will have our airport to metro connection done before 2025 😮💨
Balboa Park, with all its museums and the zoo is the most important destination that should have rail service. The Park was originally served by streetcars along Park Blvd., which might have begun as a streetcar right-of-way.
I'm a san diego resident. One of the biggest problems with MTS is the lack of integration between the busses and trolleys. For example, the rapid 235 bus crosses over the Green Line in mission valley via the 15 but there is no interchange between the two. In fact, the 235 does not stop at all in mission valley. As someone who lives in city heights and works in mission valley, this makes the 235 useless for me.
I commuted from Spring Valley to Encinitas(using the coaster) for work. It was way better than sitting in traffic. Often would get off in Old town for a margarita then hop back on the green line to SSU and take the 955 bus home. It’s a pretty good system. Needs a line along I-15 at some point.
Excellent video! My girlfriend and I use this system all the time.
Great video. Best way to get around town during busy events.
One reason it is the most traveled LRT system is its connection between Tijuana and San Diego. Most of the ridership is in between those two points on a daily and weekly basis. People from Mexico and points north use it a lot to commute to their jobs or shop. But once you go north of downtown San Diego, ridership is less especially east of SDSU.
It has a lot going for it and the Blue line extension to La Jolla is a much needed improvement. But the system needs more. For one thing there should be direct service to the airport from downtown, service to Balboa Park, Navy Medical Center, the zoo and the I-15 or 805 corridor (They could be good candidates for heavy rail or a high speed rail line to LA).
SAN DIEGO MENTIONED❗❗❗ ⛱️⛱️⛱️🚉🚉🚉🇲🇽🇲🇽🇲🇽🌇🌇🌇
I take the MTS Trolley to Padres games and during Comic Con. I attended SDSU for college and always loved that we had an on campus underground trolley station 🚃
During the busiest time I park my car at Palm Ave station and take the trolley all the way down to Downtown. Love it
Use this all the time. Great network. Wish it was larger actually.
Why not extend the Orange Line from Courthouse Station to the Airport and then to Roseville - Fleet Ridge instead of building a people mover? I'd also like to see the Orange and Green Lines both extended from Santee to Lakeside. Last but not least, I would raise the height of all the platforms on the system to allow for level boarding at every station.
SANDAG studied MTS' Airport Trolley Concept and found that it would run only every 15 minutes and be nearly as expensive to build as the Automated People Mover, which would run every 2 minutes.
APMs aren't just for airports either--Tokyo's Yurikamome, Taipei's Wenhu Line, Macau's LRT, and Singapore's LRT all mostly serve dense, urban neighborhoods outside airports using the same APM tech seen at airports in Miami, Chicago, and Phoenix.
Lol they dont even have sidewalks in Lakeside. I think it's good enough for East County with buses taking them to El Cajon station for the Green & Orange lines. I would really like to see a new line that runs from a Green line stop to Kearney Mesa, Mira Mesa, and out to Rancho Bernardo or Poway
The Beaches A Must!! Visitor's Are Always Shocked That The Trolley Doesn't Go To The Beaches. And Taking The Bus From Downtown Takes Over 45 Minutes. Sadly I Don't See This Happening. The Airport Is So Close To Downtown, I See It As A Bad Investment. Plus Let's Be Truthful, Most People That Ride The Trolley Don't Go To The Airport That Often Except The Folks That Work There, The Airport Bus Is Convenient. Overall MTS is Fantastic!!
Just ride a bike from Old Town station, the bike trails practically start there and go all around the Mission Bay area and to every beach. Traffic and parking at the beaches suck.
San Diego mentioned
Here in Alberta, our systems which were designed and built roughly along the same lines as San Diego, also have ridership figures far higher than any other per mile outside of Mexico... Ours are just 100% high floor (at least on the historic OG LRT lines)... And of course all three use rolling stock and similar design language to the Frankfurt Metro...
And yes the Siemens-Duewag U2 trains are still my favorite of all time... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens%E2%80%93Duewag_U2
I assume "any other" refers to North America, as the numbers are low compared to quite a few other places in the world.
It's a good system, but it will only have the largest ridership temporarily due to lingering affects of covid on LA Metro.
If you look at the ridership numbers for 2019, LA Metro has both the largest ridership and light rail system. I'm sure by next year it will be on top again.
It used to be really convenient to drive a short distance to the nearest trolley station to where I live, then hop onto the trolley. Unfortunately, in recent years, SANDAG has started eliminating the parking areas, and building housing on those parking areas.
The best airport connection is the Middletown station + rental car bus.
I take the blue line extension to get to work. My favorite part is passing the I-5 rush hour traffic. It's jam packed every afternoon with middle/high school students, UCSD students, workers, and people going to Padres games/concerts/events. I just wish the frequency was better.
One of the down-sides of the trolley is besides downtown it doesn't go through our most densely populated neighorboods such as those around Balboa Park and beach communities.
MTS bus system is pretty good too, only problem is traffic! MTS/SANDAG need to get going on more bus lanes in the region.
The most glaring omission in San Diego's decent Trolley network is a lack of airport connection.
There is a free shuttle from Old Town called "Flyer", and it's usually not very busy.
@@ponyphonic Yeah, it's ok, but they really need that dedicated right of way. A drive from the terminal to Santa Fe Depot looks short on paper, but it can get super backed up with traffic over only that short distance.
I took the Blue line to work downtown for years. Its faster than driving. However, though crime is low, a person does not really feel safe on the transit. far too many mentally ill or unpleasant people.
The bus connections still make any bus/ trolley trip long time consuming to go any distance. often easily 90 minutes several miles off the trolley line. So you can add 3 hours or more to your 8 hour work day in transit time.
I wish it went to the UCSD/UTC area when I worked there. The commute from east county and the SDSU area was shit.
Also missed out on the SDSU extension as they were just starting construction when I was student. Had to take a bus from Grossmont station in the morning, and then in the afternoon it was just faster to take the bus all the way back out to El Cajon.
My experience with MTS is mostly 20 years old at this point, but I thought it was well run and designed system. Just needed to go to more places, and they've been addressing that over the last 2 decades.
Besides the airport, the beach communities and areas around Balboa park are the biggest misses
It would have been helpful to mention that the San Ysidro station is located at the international border. It’s perfect for day trips into Tijuana as you don’t have to pay high parking prices at the border or experience the nightmare of crossing the border in a vehicle. Southbound isn’t bad the the wait times for reentry into the US are extreme. Foot traffic is much easier.
They also run a couple express buses to the other border crossing in Otay Mesa from downtown and Imperial Beach.
Good video. Definitely a link to the San Diego international airport by the streetcar line
Lived in San Diego for 37 years and Ive inly used the trolley like 4 times 😂
0:58 Oh, the memories...
The system should continue on from UTC down Genesee Ave toward Mesa College and beyond back into Mission Valley.
A connection or at least a pedestrian path between sorrento Valley station and the blue line. so you could reach the blue line with out having to take the coaster all the way down to old town.
I lived in SD from 2016 to 2018 and rode the MTS trolley every day with a monthly pass. Also the Coaster to Del Mar, Solana Beach, Carlsbad. and Oceanside. Plus Amtrak to Orange County and Los Angeles. Unfortunately I had to move from San Diego because the rents went through the roof.
Pls give us more chasing the rails 🙏🙏🙏
I just used it 5 minutes ago. It's nice to use overall, though it has been getting busier and busier. Every morning there are more homeless people sleeping on it as the housing crisis in California gets worse by the day. It's obvious that San Diego needs to expand the trolley system and to make more bus lines everywhere. Most people still get around with cars.
I was just there a few weeks ago
I rode on this light rail system many times when I was in San Diego, particularly the Blue Line, though when I was in Spring Valley, we (my dad and I) also rode the Orange Line. One thing I think needs to eventually be done is to create a rail line connecting San Diego to Escondido, and eventually the Inland Empire up the I-15 and I-215 corridors for commuter rail service and a second way to get to Los Angeles.
As for potential light rail expansion in the future there, they could find a way to create a light rail line connecting, say the border and SDSU on or near the I-805 corridor to connect the inland portions of Chula Vista and National City and access Plaza Bonita, and then use the SDSU station as an inland hub to create a line toward at least Mira Mesa and Rancho Bernardo up the I-15 corridor (Escondido might be a bit too far from SDSU for a light rail line and may be best suited for a commuter rail line). A connector to the current Orange Line at Imperial Avenue could also be possible via an elevated platform, similar to the kind of elevated platforms used by LA Metro's A Line between Long Beach and downtown Los Angeles.
a line from downtown through tijuana all the way to tecate would do wonders for the region. a lot of car trips go through the border leading to a lot of congestion that spills over to the main roads. across the border train could reduce the number of these trips. We will probably need to have a TSA style security check at the train stations but we can do it like the surf liner and only have the train stop in certain main stations. The creation of a local line between Tijuana and Tecate would work wonders for those communities in Tijuana of a train tracks run through very dense areas and Tecate lacks many of the resources Tijuana has. The local orphanage in Tecate only houses kids till middle school because they can’t afford to bus the kids to the nearest high school, so they just transfer the kids to a orphanage closer to a high school.
How have I never heard of this line? It looks wonderful
Rode the original route from Downtown SD to the boarder in the early 80s, while in the Navy. I only remember one more expansion up until I moved away in late 88
Once the airport connection is ready, I’d love for a CBX extension!
I live in San Diego and ik our transit is solid but I never knew we had the busiest light rail in America. I thought NYC would've had that title. I'm glad I live here with awesome light rail
NYC doesn’t even have Light Rail, at least it used to and not yet
NY has a subway, hard rail when not underground. There is no light-rail in NY, not in The City anyway.
Unlike the Los Angeles system, the San Diego trolleys share miles of track with freight rail service. Most of the Orange and Blue Line south of downtown host freight trains at night. This is why all stations have low-platforms: To clear the wider freight trains. The Blue Line to San Ysidro is particularly important because it is the only railroad to Tijuana/Tecate, one of the largest cities in Mexico.
MTS is not bad. They also have a airport shuttle free of charge at the old town station.
I think that most SD urbanists would agree that an uptown trolley line would be a very welcome addition. Personally I’d love to see a BRT on the 805
Probably best to build an automated light metro replacing the 215. A street running Trolley would not be faster than BRT with signal priority. If you're going to spend billions of dollars on rail, grade separate it and run ultra-high frequencies.
When I toured the entire network, starting with a jaunt from the airport to Tijuana, I was surprised how similar the SD system feels to Denver’s, which has more lines but very similar orientation to commuters, event goers, then a distant third & fourth, people who can use it off peak & those who have no mobility options for leaving their neighborhood.
From a San Diego resident I don’t think the silver line runs at all, I have not seen it beyond Comic-Con.
This is like third mass transit system that use just red as their colou scheme.
Yes. I had thought US had got rid of ALL rail vehicles except in SFO and NJ.
I’m glad they’re adding a people mover to connect the trolley to the airport but I find it criminal that there’s no public transportation to our major tourist destinations like balboa park, the theme parks, the beaches etc. Big missed opportunity IMO
One thing I would do differently was the recent extension to the UCSD and UTC. Instead of building the very expensive track, I think a cable tram, like the system in La Paz, would have been better. Not to mention it wouldn't have to follow the oddly circular route above Genesee Avenue (simply because the trackway support had to be there). Aerial trams are still considered odd and exotic in the US but the technology has advanced so much that this mode of transportation should be considered in all future plans as a matter of course. For example, it could be used to fork off the line from Gilman to _downtown La Jolla_ at long last. Until recently there was no way to really get it done (other than boring a tunnel under Mount Soledad) but a cable cars (I'm talking the gondola type, multiple detachable) could easily go over the median of La Jolla Parkway, in the direction of Dr. Seusss' house. Such line would also offer tremendous views of the ocean as anyone who drove in that direction knows.
Speaking as someone with anxiety, I'm not interested in being trapped in the air.
@@m8852 Check the La Paz transit videos ("Mi Teleferico").
Cries in NCTD
No one said I wasn’t planning a future video for NCTD 🫢
@@climateandtransit It’s so bad 😭 in a lot of the districts doesn’t have school buses so students have to take NCTD buses if they can’t drive to school. The nearest bus stop was a very hilly 30 minute walk from my house where there wasn’t even sidewalk all the way. The coaster is cool though I will give them that.
@@climateandtransitsprinter video
How long does it take to get to Chula Vista to LA Jolla on the blue line...depending on the time this trip can take over 90 minutes...😢 @sdmts trolley is slow and designed for tourists and no commuters. I live in SD w/o a car and take the trolley regularly...it is an embarrassment how slow it travels and operates. We need more frequency and a faster rate of travel on the trolley if we expect to influence San Diegans to ride instead of drive...@sdmts needs to grow up and take transit seriously
Beach extension desperately needed. Driving will waste half a day.
Cries in north county
An Uptown Balboa Park line.
Great vid. Think itd be cool to identify some of the most used routes and maybe highlight them on a map or something? I lived in San Diego for a while so showing San Ysidro to downtown (and showing how close the station is to the border) and the section of line from SDSU to the football stadium would be cool. As a student at SDSU we would pack those cars to the absolute brim for the quick 2 stop hop over from campus to (at the time) Qualcomm stadium for football games
Whenever that stadium has an event, it gets PACKED! -an occasionally annoyed Green line rider
Both during my years living in San Diego (2008-2015) and since moving away, I have used the MTS Trolleys extensively to get in and out of downtown - especially during Comic-Con International. Even with Comic-Con putting on their hotel shuttles, the trolley carries significantly more traffic during those 5 days than other forms of transit in and out of the Gaslamp/Convention Center region. (I heard the numbers a couple of years ago, but I don't have them at hand).
Since moving away, my wife and I have chosen our hotel explicitly to ensure that we have access to the trolley. She uses a mobility scooter, so the buses are not practical for us, but the trolley works perfectly. We are well aware of where to wait to push the ramp button (and how to address the individuals who try to push in front of us or complain about the doors not opening while waiting for the ramp to deploy).
More cities in the western US need similar public transit. And San Diego needs to find a way to connect the trolley into the North County inland area as well as where they ran up the coast.
They should put one of those it in miami
Didn't these trains go to the Mexican Border? I was there in 2009 when were filming LA Union Station to San Diego. Meteolink and Coaster
Yes
The San Ysidro terminus is the border with Mexico. The rail line goes past it to serve the cross-border freight trains the roll through every night.
@@doujinflip Thank you. I thought so but I didn't remember the video specifically mentioning the Border.
When the train is low floor, the same platforms can be used for streetcar and busses.
In Berlin we have this at some stops.
Hannover has a high floor system, as known from San Francisco.
How about you do a origin story of North county Transit district : San Diego
Mts is a solid transit system especially from a California perspective
California now actually has the strongest rail transit of any individual state. The 80s are over and so is the car-dystopia California of that era. In the 90s we passed multiple state and local bonds to fund massive amounts of rail transit. Now all of the state's major cities have high-quality urban rail, and/or regional rail.
The Bay has always had exceptional transit, but since the 90s SF has built a Stadbahn (Muni Metro) with all-subway downtown service like a light metro. BART is being upgraded from an S-bahn into a high-speed regional subway (frequency, rolling stock, etc.) Caltrain is electrifying and upgrading from commuter/regional rail to an S-bahn. Metrolink is upgrading to regional rail.
LA has built a full metro system in 30 years and is in the process of doubling it right now. San Jose, Sacramento, and San Diego now all have high-quality and mostly grade-separated light rail. We have three of the five most popular Amtrak routes outside of the NEC.
In other words, California has undergone a transit revolution and practically no one in the transit community noticed.
The current routes are great but I would love to see this system expand to OB, PB, Bankers Hill and Hillcrest to name a few possible extensions
Definitely needs to serve the beaches!
Can you do Phoenix next?
Can you do a video on Dallas’ DART Light Rail system?
If I recall correctly, the terminal station in Santee was completed before the SR-52 extension from I-5 to SR-125 was built in the '90s. Do you know if extending the trolley line from Santee to Kearny Mesa then south to Fashion Valley was ever considered? Would have been a great opportunity to build the line along the SR-52 corridor at the same time they built the freeway.
Meh it depends by “busiest” theirs is limited options so a lot of people cram onto what’s offered. Cities like San Francisco’s MUNI light rail, at their peak in 2019, pre pandemic. Seen much more ridership than this. It’s also a much more expansive network.
I was born and raised in New York City but have lived in San Diego for the last 6+ years.
MTS' light rail has good intentions and so much potential. Unfortunately, the way the West Coast views public transportation is essentially as a poor/homeless person mover, which ends up causing pushback from proper expansion of the system. Additionally, the system's routes are set up in frustratingly non-efficient ways. Examples: running the route along main car arteries instead of into high density areas.
Even the future airport extension is mind-bogglingly frustrating. They plan to have the trolley drop people off in the rental car center, making them then have to walk 10-15 minutes with their luggage to get to the terminal (I'm not driving a car, hence taking the trolley. Why are you taking me to the car facility?)
Hopefully, they will continue to build out the trolley in a smarter fashion so that it actually becomes viable to take public transportation and the local views on public transportation as a whole change.
You would thibk metro Los Angeles would have way more passengers?
Isnt LA and SF busier?
Before the pandemic, yes. Since 2022, no.
Tijuana only has two "a".
It's not "Tia Juana"
It's "Tee Juana"
While your on that topic, everyone's been say Los Angeles wrong as well. LOL 😆
Between train and platform is a roughly 8 inch gap. Very poor accessibility throughout the system. I take the green line every day
Accessibility is far better now than when it used high-floor cars, and wheelchair users had to climb up (somehow) to special platforms at stations.
@@pacificostudios
I remember those! The driver had to get up, unlock and deploy the lift, wait for the passenger to safely board the lift, and then activate it to pull them up (extremely slowly). It would take minutes), and at times, there’d be no place for wheelchair-bound passengers. Really bizarre system.
Honestly the fact that MTS doesn't go directly to SAN is a crime against humanity, specifically anybody who's ever tried to navigate the absolute clusterfuck that is the pickup/dropoff area. Speaking of which, the existence of that pickup/dropoff area is also a crime against humanity.