2 meter antenna install and shootout 1/4 wave vs 5/8 - which is better?
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2019
- You are watching me install a Laird 1/4 wave 2 meter antenna on my Chevy Tahoe. I also compare the Laird to my old Opek 5/8 wave antenna. Which one is better?
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#hamRadio #2meterAntenna #antennaComparison - Věda a technologie
Why do you ‘bleep’ out your call sign when you show us your license plate?
The employer I had at the time had strict rules about social media. Take a closer look at the plate...it's a prop
Thanks for taking the time to do the test. Enjoyed the video!
Nice install. Using a 1/4 wave on top of my RV with a home built ground plane. Works great.
I've been in ham radio for 25+ years and a 1/4 wave antenna can't be beat for the price and, low maintenance. I use the exact same antenna, being demonstrated in this video, and I paid $12(?) for it a few years ago. Over the years, I've tried different styles of single band, dual band and even a quad band antenna's but I still love the 1/4 wave for it's simplicity. I mentioned low maintenance, take a look at most ham radio antennas. They usually have coils, springs, plastic parts, etc., that can be damaged. I've had four antennas, over the years, get damaged in some form or fashion. The first one was a Larsen 5/8 wave that suffered a damaged base coil when it was struck by a tree limb. No external damage but the shock of the limb hitting it broke the coil internally. Within the past few days I had to replace a Comet SS680NMO dual band antenna as the braiding inside the spring was damaged as well as the spring loaded plunger inside the base. Unsure how it happened and only knew about it because I was getting bad signal reports. I mostly use VHF and UHF repeaters so I don't need a high gain antenna for simplex work. I keep the Comet available in case I'm on a road trip and want the extra gain or, in an area where I'm quite a distance from a repeater. My day to day use (repeater distance approx. 25 miles away) a 1/4 is just fine and yes, it can be used on UHF also:)
I have a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee, with electric sunroof, and had to locate the NMO mount about 19(?) inches distance from the rear edge of the lift gate. My SWR is anywhere from 1.4 to 1.2 across the VHF band and, 1.5 to 1.3 across the UHF band. I've made similar comparisons, like in this video, of various antenna's and didn't notice much if any difference in transmitted or, received signal strength. Again, that's just my experience and YMMV. I love this 1/4 wave antenna as it's very stealthy and it blends in with the dark gray color of my vehicle.
I drive all over Kansas and Oklahoma in a little Ford transit van.
I started with a 1/4, then went to a 1/2, then to a 6/8 antenna. Let me tell you, that 6/8 antenna is where it's at. I know my ranges with each of them and the 6/8 blows the rest away. When you need a lot more range get the Comet SBB7, I'm constantly surprising people every day with the range I get with this thing and it's noticeable against the others. I made a 80 mile contact over simplex and 80 mile contact to a repeater just last week.
I run a Hustler CG 144 on 2 meters-84 inches tall mounted 6 feet off the ground on the roof of my truck with 6 db worth of gain and 80 watts and 100 miles is normal for me
Years ago when I still had my Tacoma, I took down my 5/8 and put up a 1/4 wave because I knew I was going to drive into a parking garage at the Toyota Center. The 1/4 wave was fine when I entered the parking garage, but when I exited it got knocked down. On a road trip I would definitely use the 5/8 wave and use the 1/4 as a backup.
Back in '72 I tested a stock 1/4-wave as above and an Antenna Specialist 5/8-wave base loaded antenna on a full-duplex 25 watt VHF mobile phone unit to a repeater at 700 feet AGL. In town 12 miles away, the 1/4-wave was choppy in some places and the 5/8-wave was clear.
Driving out of town, the 1/4-wave was choppy at 20 miles and lost it as 25. The 5/8-wave was choppy at 25 and lost it as 30.
The 1/4-wave antennas last about a year and metal fatigue breaks the whip just above the rubber boot.
Couple of years later tested several 5/8-wave antennas. The ASP with spring, Larsen and Decibel Products without springs. Driving off-road the ASP stayed straight but the Larsen and DB whipped around. We observed how much it whipped around and tied a fishing line and pulled the antennas the same amount. There was a 3-6 dB loss.
You are getting really good at these videos. Great video. Thumbs up.
Thanks Tom....I appreciate your support!
Thanks for the video. I live in a very hilly area of Australia and did that same experiment here. I found that the 1/4 wave was better at the bottom of hills (valleys) and the 5/8 was better on mountain tops as it has a low radiation level. I normally have a 1/4 wave for the same reasons as you. I need to garage the car.
I just got finished explaining this in another comment and didn't even see this one.
Good follow through. Keep it up.
Out here, among the trees and hills, I run a Laird 5/8 2m antenna on an actuator on my mobile. I have greater signal consistency with the 5/8 when leaves are on the trees, compared to previously using 1/4 wave 2m antenna at same mount point on vehicle.
When I was driving to North Branford and back every day I never noticed any difference at all talking with John on the repeater between the 1/4 wave on the trunk of my Corolla and the 5/8 on the roof of the SUV. But that's just my experience and observation, it doesn't mean that it will be the same for every situation.
Many years ago I tried a similar comparison, in the city the quarterwave seemed to be an advantage, we attributed it to the less defined polar diagram perhaps being better for reflecting signal off buildings etc. The 5/8 seemed to have the edge in open countryside although perhaps with more flutter at higher speeds.
g0fvt - The take off angle on the 1/4 wave was probably more efficient for your needs as the repeater antennas were probably on top of buildings. The 1/4 wave puts more signal skyward instead of across the horizon. I’ve always had good results with 1/4 antennas, I’m rarely any greater distance than 30 miles from one so they work fine for me.
Derek Lea , difficult to say, mostly the repeaters were some miles away so not a huge angle if they were at about 100ft above ground level. A popular antenna at the time was the 7/8, worst of the bunch for flutter....
Yet another nice video. Great job on the antenna install.
Thanks Billy!
I went with a 5/8 wave antenna but installed a spring-base between the loading coil and the whip. I just had to reduce the length of the whip by the height of the loading coil.
That Laird quarter wave is not cut for the right frequency. Unfortunately you can't fix "too short" by trimming. If you are dead-set upon using a quarter wave antenna then buy one with a whip that you can trim to put it on frequency.
Otherwise your MFJ analyzer is only telling you that you have the wrong antenna length and you are not going to do anything about it.
I would not recommend the use of Nevr-Sieze. Most antennas (commercial ones) come with a little single use packet of silicone grease. Fill up that gap between the NMO and the antenna with silicone grease. It is non conductive and fills a void so water just can't get to the antenna internals (on a base loaded 5/8) or at the NMO mount.
Been using a 1/4 wave on the roof of my truck for a long time. The roof makes a great reflector!
1/4 wave seems to the the way to go for 2M...simple, cheap, and small.
The roof makes a good GROUNDPLANE. Beam antenna have a reflector.
Thanks for the video!
I have used both on my suburban, the 5/8 seems like it gets less picket fencing when moving. the 1/4 does seem to have a bit better low angle radiation
Lower angle from 1/4 wave is unlikely. The typical 3 db gain from switching from 1/4 wave to 5/8 wavelength antenna is gained by having a lower angle of radiation therefore not wasting as much signal into the stars above you.
I hit the Warren repeater from my house in Smithfield, was able to speak with a Vermont station. Kc1joz here 73s
Not bad! That repeater was off the air for a long time. I don't use it often but I'm glad to see it back on the air and working well.
As soon as you suppressed your call sign, that was enough for me!
I find this interesting...you aren't the only one who has said this. The video is not about me so I'm not sure why my callsign is important to you. Also, at the time this was recorded the company I worked for was strict about social media posts so I tried to stay anonymous. You'll see my callsign in newer videos...but again I'm not sure why it is relevant...
The radiation angle for a quarter wave is typically higher than for a 5/8 wave, so it’s quite possible that it could outperform the longer antenna on some repeaters.
I've not noticed much of a difference one way or the other but results may vary from situation to situation.
My understanding is the 5/8 wave is superior in the quality of the signal while the car is moving. The signal strength between the two stationary should be similar. What would really test it is the audio quality from a moving transmission.
Im super new to all of this, havent even purchased my first radio yet. Decided this weekend to just go get my license, and started studying. Im taking the exam this thursday. Pretty sure Im going to order the Yaesu FTM 7250DR. So any recommendations on a good dual band antenna?
First off, welcome to Ham Radio! I really can't recommend a particular antenna for dual band use as I really don't run UHF here. I would venture a guess and say that any name-brand antenna purchased from a Ham Radio retailer should work reasonably well for you. Mount it as high and as central as you can on your vehicle and it should work reasonably well.
Will you be releasing an update video? How have you been liking the Laird? Going to be mounting a 2m to my truck roof soon.
It seems to work fine but I bumped while shoveling snow off the roof and it got a little bit out of whack since it is so thin. I was able to fix it easily enough but a more substantial antenna wouldn't have been damaged in the first place
Good test. Nice video. Fact remains , a 5/8 wave has a gain over a 1/4 wave. And a different lobe angle ( main lobe is lower ) and stronger. But not so much as to nullify smacking into garages, trees etc! The height of the cab can make a big difference at vhf and uhf. Some cabs are a couple ft higher than many compact cars. That can give a couple miles more to mobile to mobile communications. After years of using all kinds of mobile setups big antennas matter. Its simple capture area and radiation angles. Also PLACEMENT on the vehicle. Matters. !!! Many db... Center roof wins. Exactly where you have it! 73s. K4DSB.
whats SWR on both.. only seen it on 1/4 wave.. both antennas would need to be exact SWR on same freq to get a proper signal reading and comparison
How well does the 5/8 wave perform vs the 1/4? I routinely drive from Columbus Ohio to Cincinnati. My friends usually ride along via one of the main repeaters in Columbus. Currently, I'm using a 1/4 wave Tram dual band antenna which performs reasonable well. However, about half way to Cincinnati, they can no longer hear me. But, I can still hear them. So, I was just wondering if I got a higher gain antenna, if I'd be able to talk to them for at least as long as I could hear them. Any thoughts or information you share will be appreciated! Thanks
I've never really seen a difference between 5/8 and 1/4. But there are alot of variables to consider...my advice is to experiment and see what works best for you
@@SevenFortyOne thanks!
Another good video. I am considering a tri-band VHF/UHF mobile antenna for my GMC truck. I was reading on Comet’s web site that the tri-band antennas need to be moved around to adjust tuning. How do I do that with a NMO mount? I would think I am kind of committed once I drill that holes. Haha. I am impressed by the mounting of the Comet and the fold over (manual) that they have. This is one of 3 antennas I plan on mounting. One VHF/UHF mobile & 2 HF mobile antennas. The HF mobile will be mounted near the bumper (trying to figure that out). If you have any advice to share with this noob, please feel free. Again, thanks for your video.
Things are different from install to install. The best thing to do is experiment and see what happens. There will always be compromises so make the best of what you have and things should work. Also, keep in mind differences on paper don't always translate into difference you'll notice in real world conditions - especially when it comes to antennas.
The most important thing is to get the SWR as low as you can and go from there. For HF, bonding of the car panels to one another is important. Ham Radio Crash Course has at least one video on this topic that you may find helpful. Also, HF mobile antennas are usually a pretty big compromise over full size antennas. They'll work if you get them set up reasonably well but won't usually perform as good as a full size antenna of course. Experiment, and have fun!
How long was the 5/8ths antenna? It looked long, may have been the camera angle
It's an older base loaded antenna...it is long but works great
I think if repeater signal become stronger (in your radio) that mean your rx getting better, but not necessarily with your tx. As long as repeater can still picked your signal then no problem with your tx. YD0ACH 73
Generally with antenna changes, receive, and transmit do show similar if not identical improvements. Antenna gain (a result of radiation pattern manipulation) works for receive, and transmit.
Great video….I’m just getting in to ham radio and was wondering what is the type/size coaxial cable you are using between radio and antenna?
I've been using rg8x in my mobile installations for many years with success. If you are running frequencies higher than 2 meters you might want to consider lower loss coax.
@@SevenFortyOne For the foreseeable future I will only be using 2m and 70 cm in my truck so that’s the cable I will go with. Thanks for the info
@@SevenFortyOne I have some RG 58AU that has the same loss on UHF as LMR 400 @ 17 feet. per my analyzer
Focus man...send/receive benefits of 1/4 vs 5/8 ?
Thanks for this, be interesting to hear your thoughts after 6 months or a year.
The 1/4 wave has been working great since I made this video. I don't notice any difference in performance compared to the 5/8 antenna I replaced.
@@SevenFortyOne being in hilly terrain and close to the repeater or "under the repeater" I believe the 1/4 wave is supposed to hit repeaters better.
When operating far below a repeater's antenna I would think the 1/4 wave would be a better choice, because the lower angle of radiation of the 5/8 wave is going to decrease radiation at the higher angles - which is actually where the repeater antennas are relative to your mobile station on the ground. Of course, for hitting repeaters a long distance away, the 5/8 wave is likely to be superior to the 1/4 wave.
Finally someone who might actually understand antenna gain, and radiation patterns 👍
This may be the public safety band antenna you ordered, can't remember the model for it. I had that problem as well. I changed it for Laird QWB144
You might be right
I'm having a lot of trouble finding basic information about what kind of antenna I need. I must be misunderstanding something, because I can't find the difference between 1/4, 1/2, and 5/8 wavelength antennas anywhere.
There isn't a simple answer. Bit depends on what your needs are and other variable like your car and radio. Having said that, a1/4 wave usually is a good place to start as it generally is the simplest and cheapest option but still provides decent performance.
Great! Thanks
My experience over the last 25+ years = 1/4 Vs. 5/8 - not enough difference to justify matching the 5/8 to the system (on repeaters anyway). Good analysis.
What about the 5/8 Wilson mag mount? Where would it compare to both?
It's hard to say without testing but my guess is it would perform about the same as any other decent quality 2 meter 5/8 wave antenna. I didn't know Wilson made 2 meter antennas, I thought they only did CB.
@@SevenFortyOne I think the mag mount would be a good choice because you can remove it quick or hide it in your car so people might not know you have an expensive radio inside as well. Cover the radio with some socks and hide the antenna :) The Wilson 2 meter is sold by many outlets.
Here is one www.ebay.com/p/1700378110
And Amazon of course.
Btw laird antennas I believe are commercial antennas. That might be why it didnt come into good reasonance until 150mhz
This particular one is resonant from 144-152(?) I think. I have the same one and the SWR is better on it than some other factory pre-tuned ham antennas I've bought and that includes Diamond, Comet and Larsen. I use the same antenna and my SWR is extremely good. This antenna can't be trimmed, like the older Larsen 1/4 wave antennas, but it's really good for what it is. I have no way to check SWR outside the ham bands but, it's not over 1.4:1 anywhere in the 2 meter band.
That was a good test no matter how unscientific it might have been. I think I might need an antenna analyzer someday. I think most do not do 70 CM but the one you have does a lot of the HF bands, correct? I have my general and by winter I would like to have a HF rig and antenna. I will have to go and watch your videos. I see you have some SDRuno videos. I started by playing with RTL-SDR and SDRSharp. I did not know what I was doing so all I could really get was some CB band, VHF and UHF with the thing. Clearly I was ignorant and also did not have the correct antenna. Thanks! Subbed and belled!
You can get analyzers that do 70cm...just depends on how much you want to spend. Mine does not do 70cm but I don't run that band so I don't need it. Rtl sdr dongles don't really work below vhf...you were lucky to get cb on yours. Sdrplay units are MUCH better than the rtl-sdr and cover all hf bands as well as vhf/uhf
@@SevenFortyOne Thanks!
@fpeletz I don't run 440 so no need for me to upgrade right now, but thanks for the info!
What is the difference on 5/8 vs 1/4 is it the thickness of the stell antenna or the length or the bottom part ? In confused
The diameter of the hole you need to drill
@@SevenFortyOne thank you 👍
@@SevenFortyOne I think he meant the 1/4 wave vs 5/8 wave..
Ham since 1969 Been Extra since 1983 and hold a First Class radio telephone and worked for Motorola. If you mount an NMO Motorola had a special hole saw that would cut a 3/4 hole and would scrape the paint where the brass nut would contact the roof. Also the absolute best 2 meter mobile antenna I have ever used was the Model CG-144 Hustler. I could use regular repeaters at 100 miles or more. Running Motorola Spectra 110 watts.
I pay attention to small details when it comes to vehicles and when I see an antenna mounted to the top of trucks/SUVs, I always suspect law enforcement but I guess that's not always the case.
correct
if 1/4 wave antenna tune at higher frequency for given cut length , it probably due to weak ground connection. sometime, lengthening antenna a little bit ( make it slightly inductive ) to compensate for weak ground. often handheld antenna do that, since most handheld radio have weak/small ground. AG6JU
Many times 1/4 and 5/8 wave will be pretty close. The real test will be in driving around. You may see some places you cant talk back from. However, you have a high profile car and this too makes a difference. All in all, good test. 73
My 1/4 wave lil wil wilson beats K40 5/8 wave on 11 meters. Easy. And its a lower price. Does size matter? Hummm...
Would this antennas work for cb as we’ll
No
@@SevenFortyOne No ... CB is 27 Mhz.... if that makes any sense. you are talking 150 Mhz.
Hi Rob, for the most part, I don't see much difference between the 2 when mounted on the roof. A good comparison, I like that the Laird has a solid brass flange, no chance in it cracking. good vid.
I'm glad you liked the video Buzz...I didn't see much difference either.
Nice presentation. I am curious as to why you muted your call sign on the demonstration?
With the two different angles of radiation, I suspect that operating simplex would be the most noticeable test.
Anyone ever try building a multi~wave antenna without using an antenna tuner? I have two ideas for this.
Sure, there are tons of multi band antennas out there to build or buy
I mean like using a full size 20 meter length antenna on 10 meters without a tuner. That i haven't tried yet.
GOOD TEST GREETS ON5OC BELGIUM
that changing signal is ground wave scatter, wind blowing the antenna and other movements, also have an effect.. to test antennas an almost instant change of antenna is required. the time between the change of antennas was too long.. you may see a different signal of a repeater in the morning compared to afternoon... the rf stream can change its course... reflections blockages.. atmospherics.... these antennas are not in free space or close to it... neither antenna is working optimally
Yup, understood. This is what I'd call a "real world" comparison and illustrates approximately what one might see in general use in sub-optimal conditions. This was not intended to be a scientific comparison by any means.
Interesting video. I've had better luck with the 1/4 wave in a mountainous environment.
Because the radiation pattern has a large upward lobe to help get you out of a valley. On the mountain top, however, the lower angle of radiation inherent to a 5/8 wavelength antenna will outperform a 1/4 wavelength antenna.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💎
First time I saw someone that refuses to let listen his callsign. Why?
I used to have a restriction due to my job...but that's been lifted. My newer vids have my call.
@@SevenFortyOne lame
@@SevenFortyOne Very strange Job that restricts your use of your own personal Callsign on CZcams.
I used to work at a great job where we all signed the official Secrets act but where not restricted on using our callsign 😉😊. I guess it's because we live in the real land of the free UK.👍😊
Can't you be arrested for posting on FB if it hurts someone's feelings?
U show you, your car but your callsign is muted?
Why you cover your call sign I don’t understand
I used to because of restrictions with a previous employer...I don't anymore. --N1NUG
Unless the 5/8ths is a piece of crap construction, then your question is easily answered. However, you ask which is better, not which is more efficient. So if you want a weenier that fits easily in your garage then the 1/4 is probably better.
Why would anyone who is licensed edit out their call sign in a video?
Requirements from a former employer
Get a splitter and run both.
Why?
@@SevenFortyOne Try it out;) 1/4 wave on one side, 5/8 on the other.
You mean a switch then?
@@SevenFortyOne transmit and receive on both at the same time. Try it out.
What do you expect would happen?
scared to reveal your call ?
think of it as a bunny hunt.
Haha this is testing
Real hams drill holes on their roof.
Real hams buy used cop cars with holes already drilled in the roof
Real hams drill a 3/4 inch hole on their new $42,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee.... even now I still can't believe I did it.
@@dereklea1183 Real Hams drill 3/8 inch holes and then use a 3/4" chassis punch to make a super clean-cut 3/4 inch hole. I've done that for 44 years as a ham and no one has ever complained or tried to cut the price when I sold it. Just put a 3/4 inch antenna hole plug in it. Most don't even notice it.
@@dereklea1183 The real tragedy is spending 42k on a Grand Cherokee instead of the same amount on a Gladiator! 🙃
And don’t mute their callsign on CZcams. 😂
This is TESTING ? really."
What did you expect? This is Amateur Radio and CZcams, not a commercial radio service and a testing lab.
He obviously transmitted his call sign, but edited it out.
With the nut jobs on here, I would cut the audio containing my call sign as well.
@@needhelp2453 ya think and who cares
Why are you afraid to give your call sign? It's public ya know. All I have to do is look you up on the FCC ULS search engine and I can even be provided with your address. 73 K9POW.