Better Than Carbon? 10 Tips EVERY Reefer Should Know Before Running Ozone on a Saltwater Tank!
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Having a crystal clear reef tank is only one of the benefits that running ozone will have on a saltwater aquarium. Today, join Ryan and Elliot (Marine Collectors) for a deep dive into some of the lesser known advantages of running ozone on our aquariums. Find all the benefits of ozone right here!
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00:00 Introduction
00:16 Incredibly Effective
02:29 Use to Manage, Not Treat
10:57 A Little Goes A Long Way
14:45 Accurate ORP Probes are Crucial
18:23 Best used on a skimmer with independent feed pump
23:36 Will Clear Bacterial Infections in Fish
29:41 Positive experience for lymph/viruses
32:48 Clear Water
35:02 More Cost Effective Than Carbon
37:18 Consider The Similarity To Hydrogen Peroxide
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I've run ozone for a little over a year now, and love it. I will say, though, that it has a pretty definitive impact on water chemistry. Using ICP-MS, I've seen some massive drops in many elements, namely copper. I actually started dosing small amounts of copper to keep that level in a detectible range (copper is crucial for photosynthesis). Iodine, iron, selenium, and cobalt also seem to be depleted very quickly with ozone as well. I highly recommend ICP-MS testing for ozone users (MS is a much more accurate ICP test than the usual OES test).
It makes sense that ozone would collapse protein skimmer foam production. Protein skimmers remove organic molecules that are either hydrophobic (water repulsive, like oils) or have a hydrophobic end (so-called polar molecules, like most proteins). It cannot remove hydrophilic organic molecules (water soluble, like sugars and alcohols).
As a general rule, hydrophobic molecules are heavier and more complex than hydrophilic ones.
But ozone works by oxidizing (breaking up) organic molecules, ultimately converting them to CO2, H2O, and NO3. So exposing complex hydrophobic molecules to ozone should act to break them down into simpler hydrophilic molecules.
So I would suggest adding ozone to a separate ozone reactor fed by the effluent of a protein skimmer, and not to the protein skimmer itself. That way the ozone would not interfere with the protein skimmer's removal of hydrophobic molecules, and only have to break down the hydrophilic molecules the skimmer didn't touch.
Then I would suggest you aerate the effluent of the ozone reactor heavily to remove the residual ozone. UV will also destroy ozone.
But this is just a suggestion that someone might like to experiment with, I haven't actually tried any of this.
Martin Moe recommended this exact procedure or through a separate gas exchange tower. A friend of mine used the gas exchange tower method with great results on a 280. He was able to achieve and maintain an ORP of 340-350 with multiple UV O2 generators. This was in 1988.
Maintaining a 600g tank using ozone is something that is intriguing and a must have to maintain good quality water. I’ll be picking up a unit soon. 👍
❤ thanks for another video
Really cool to see Elliot back on the tube. Always nice to see those new faces come give their expert advice.
Elliot always gets a thumbs up 🙂
Yes
I'm using ozone with a BubbleKing 300 External on my 3000 litre system, works really well for me, 13ft long tank with crystal clear water I keep my orp around 350
Love both ozone (on my RedSeaReefer250) and Peroxide as a fish bath before observational QT and then before going into the tank)
My family has a water filtration company named WaterWise, based in Tennessee.
We partner with a top of the line ozone company. The ozone that you are using is using air, which produces the harmful chemical, because air is mostly nitrogen.
Our ozone is produced into water. It is aqueous ozone. We spray it in our mouths, clean wounds, spray our fruits and vegetables, inject it into laundry machines, run it in high doses in certain healthcare and medical applications, etc.
I am not concerned about harmful byproducts with our type of ozone generation. I am setting up ozone in my freshwater tank to test various impacts that it has.
I'd also appreciate learning about your total water system, what your carbon is and how it is being applied.
Please let me know how we can get in touch.
Stephen
Have you posted any videos on that tank behind you with a mangrove and a super DSB? Looks really interesting!
no negative impact on my Nyos220 skimmer. been using ozone for years!
Hey Devin, do you keep it on 24/7?
Yeah man the I would love to see where we go on the peroxide conversation both for fish and coral.
I got the poseiden Ozone for a 200 gallon peninsula FOWLR I am building out. good advice on sett it on a timer and not relaying on the ORP probe.
thinking of a cheap one for my RS 300XL seahorse tank I am also building out. :) they are prone to bac. infection + really messy eaters.
would be nice if you could get a smaller quality unit from ozone tech. Ryan see what they can do!
I think the peroxide DIp is the way to go in QT.
The question i have is what system volume is too small for ozone. I have a 60 gallon display and 15 gallon sump.. loaded with corals but have an issue with sandbed algae. Also a white cotton like algae on my rocks that I would love to see gone. If ran at a minimum can I do it? Need a new compatible external skimmer but if it solves all this TOTALLY WORTH IT!
This is super cool. I work with similar products(negative ions, hydroperoxials) that have the same effect but little to no ozone. These are used in HVAC systems in homes, cars, etc. Always wondered if it would work in a fish tank and never knew positive ion generators(ozone) was already in use. Negative ions, or hydroperoxial ions generate negative Oxygen ions that combine with Hydrogen in the air to form a cluster(HOO-) that interact with single called organisms/bacteria/viruses, leaving H20 as the chemical reaction/byproduct. They also remove odors. This is nerd talk that I only wrote since this video was essentially 42 mins of ultra nerd talk lol
Hi. I’ve missed this one. Can I ask a question if it’s not too late? Is it okay to use ozone in a macro algae tank? Can it also be used with a macro algae refugium? Will it affect the bioavailability of nutrients and trace elements for plants? I was planning to dose iron and wondered if ozone would diminish it in any way. Thank you.
I use both ozone and UV on my tanks. Never have a itch or velvet issue. I run ozone using ORP to turn it ON and OFF. The UV runs all the time. I change the pump flow to have the UV kill bacteria at the lower flow and kill algae at the higher flow.
Would it be ok with an aircon unit being on while running ozone? Ie aircon installed room where my tank is?
Run ozone in my 350g sps tank. Royal Exclusiv skimmer with dedicated ozone port. Run it on 3 for 1 hour per night.
I would like to see how Ryan used ozone to defeat dinos/diatoms. Did he do a blackout to get the dinos waterborne, did he place the skimmer in the return chamber? more videos on ozone please!
I run ozone on everything and run it hooked to an ORP probe and controller. Ozone has a min and max run time each day as well as min max run times when operating per cycle (min 5min run time when turned on, min 30mins cooldown when turned off, allowed to cycle on and off 24hrs fed into the skimmer. When using it on recirculation the ozone is added after CO2 scrubber (via tee) and there is an overpressure/one-way valve before scrubber (also on a tee) to allow excess pressure out of the recirculation system when the Ozone is being added. The only downside to Ozone is the destruction of rubber parts, simple thing to remedy if you keep this in mind when putting a tank together and replace all the rubber seals for silicone ones instead. Also worth pointing out Ozone generator create acid if the air going into them is not dry and this will cause a drop in pH without any ozone being produced...
Don't run Ozone generators off a standard relay, they will destroy the relay pretty quickly if you use it in the example above.
Elliot I was to see your show tank!
Wonder if we could pair the Ozone skimmer with UV sterilizer to minimize the amount of oxidants in the water. I am going to check ORP before and after UV sterilizer to see if there was difference.
from a biological point of view, ozone and UV do the same thing, but they way they achieve it is different. Strong UV can actually generate ozone as well as break it down. It could be interesting to check but there would only be a reduction in ORP if there is still ozone in the water when it reaches the UV steriliser.
Wonder how it goes if you set up a new tank with ozon from the start?
What does ozone do to phytoplankton dosed to the water column?
Can you just use ozone with a air stone (wood) in the sump?
One question I have is how you would use this when setting up a new tank. Instinctively I’d not want it on at all through cycle, but then when would you start using it?
To quote US CDC (NIOSH): 5 ppm Ozone air concentrations is where you start hitting human fatality.
Like every toxin, risk will depend entirely on the concentration and duration of exposure. NIH specifically discusses two additional factors: secondary risks exist where “ozone can react with numerous indoor chemicals, such as those related to wood flooring, carpeting, and perfume, to create potentially harmful compounds” & “Additionally, humans may have variable sensitivity to ozone exposure. One study found that pediatric asthmatics might be more sensitive to certain air pollutants such as ozone.”
That’s not by any means to say “don’t use it”. It’s simply an exploration of the risk as cited by two prominent medical agencies.
If anything, it supports Elliot’s approach of using the bare minimum to achieve desired results over time.
Also, the advice on OPR probes was extremely valuable.
I wouldn't give the risks associated with ozone a single thought...if you can smell it, turn it down a little...people use to dump that stuff into their homes for decades (especially smokers) and never had problems. My friend's grandma use to have one and we would put our faces up to the front of it and suck that stuff in for hours because it smelled good...still here...LOL
I run ozone on a small 100lt tank and larger 6ft 750lt tank.
I initially ran it on my 100lt tank on a 3 hour timer and nuked my tank. Killed one tang and my clowns where drunk on it. Turned it off and they came good within minutes.
On the larger tank, I notice that my yellow tangs get HLLE and also can get body sores if I run it too high for a long period of time. It usually takes a few months before you see the effects but as soon as I shut the ozone off, the tangs heal within a week or so.
I initially tried injecting ozone into my skimmer but it crashed the skimmer, so I bought a separate skimmer and that works a lot better.
I am dosing a very small amount 25mg to a 130g tank. I am not sure if I should rely on my orp reading which never goes over 370 not matter how long I leave the ozone on or just run this on a timer at night. But I am not sure if 25mg doing anything to my tank at all
Can we use an air pump and air stone to just bubble the ozone into the tank at night?
Did Ryan say what Tunze skimmer he used for ozone?
Would you recommend using both , uv sterilisation and ozone ?
I do!
Definitely looking forward to more on hydrogen peroxide 👍
I have a skimmer just for ozone , so when it the ozone comes on, the other skimmer stops working properly .
How does it affect beneficial bacteria?
I just purchased the Poseidon and have trying to decide how to rune it. It sounds as though the time the unit is on will likely be very short. If this is true why couldn't you use your primary skimmer.
you can. I here that some skimmers may not be ozone safe as in the plastic fails but idk how true that is
could anybody help me? I have the red sea 625xxl reefer (160 gal) set up . running the reefmat 1200, protein skimmer and chaeto. only about 12 small fish and 8 small mixed coral frags right now, I clean my glass every 5 days or so. would adding a ozone generator over clean my water with the set up I already have ? it would be nice to have a little less maintenance and clean glass like every 2 weeks
Guys,come on, it's beyond my understanding. You may be one of the top notch proffecinals out there in this world. Why on earth you keep talking about skimmers as the reactor when the way to go here is with deticated ozone reactor 😮
So which "cheaper" ozone unit was Ryan talking about?
Can you use ozone with all skimmers? If not, how do we know which ones can be used with ozone?
Ozone will break down plastics pretty quickly, especially plastic tubing on skimmers. There are a few skimmers designed for use with ozone.
Nyos is ozone safe
@@grantrogers2878 Aquamaxx has dedicated venturi port for ozone and so does Tunze master dc
Give us an update on Ryan’s 360.
How much ozone to run if you use the night?
I run ozone using the Poseidon, no dryer, and have it going into my skimmer pump. I have the Poseidon set to 2.5 and run it for 1 hour intervals evenly divided throughout the day for a total of 5 hours a day on my 190 gallon system. I monitor ORP using an Apex. My water is crystal clear but I have never once seen any impact on my ORP level. My ORP does not go up when the Poseidon is on and it does not drop when the Poseidon is off. My ORP goes up and down throughout the day inversely with my pH and the Poseidon makes no impact on the ORP reading. The ORP range is about 300 to 330. I don't understand why the ozone doesn't impact the ORP reading on my system.
Same here. Been running it on mine for about 6 months and I saw the orp react initially and stopped. Mine stays around 290-315 and doesn't change if I run it 24/7 or a few hours a day. replaced my orp probe with no change. Also changed from using the skimmer to a avast ozone reactor with no real change. Cleaned out my lines and the corona unit. I can smell the ozone in the water that's going into the tank from the reactor but still no orp change. Water looks good and clear so I believe it's working, I just don't like not being able to monitor if I'm using enough/too much.
@Zach Bryant I wonder if it has to do with where the ORP probe is placed in the sump with respect to the ozone rxn chamber. My ozone goes into my skimmer and my skimmer is "downstream" of my ORP probe so ozone would need to go through my display and back down into my sump to hit my ORP probe. I wonder if the ozone degrades before it reaches my ORP probe. Is yours set up in a similar way?
@@codyspencer3491 Currently it is similar. My reactor is putting the ozone water in the return pump section so it's going through the display before hitting the probe. Maybe I'll test putting the probe in the return section to see what happens. I originally started with using the skimmer as the reactor and it is before the probe and still had the same issue after a while. I don't know. are you on Reef2reef? I might start a thread and see what others have to say. I'm assuming most people aren't using ozone so diagnosing funky problems is going to be even more difficult haha
@@Zbryant91 that would be awesome if you did that experiment! I'm ReefDreamz on R2R :)
Running on my 300 gal. and orp is still reacting months later. Few things to consider. My orp is down range in my sump front he skimmer. The skimmer is a recirculating one so contact time is longer.
It could simply be that your skimmer isn't as efficient as a recirculating or a dedicated reactor. Could also be probe placement.
Can a low cost ozone ready skimmer be recommended?
I got a aquamaxx, it come with a port for ozone. They are not crazy expensive
Which aquamaxx are you using?@@riptorable
Any recommendations on how to use in a freshwater system with a surplus of wood? I would like to cut back on the amount of tannins in the water.
It's fundamentally the same set up and set of reactions. However, freshwater systems have a much lower target OPR. Typically a Marine system will have a "healthy" oxidation/redox potential between roughly 300-450 ORP. Freshwater on the other hand is expected to have higher amounts of tannins and organics. A "healthy" range for a fast moving or heavily planted freshwater system is generally 100-200 ORP. While very slow moving systems with even higher amounts of tannins and organics (think a blackwater betta tank) may drop into the high double digit OPR ranges.
Adjusting for the ORP target is the only real difference.
If you have a large tank, it's worth exploring the external generators BRS is exploring here. However, if you have a relatively small aquarium (
@@dusk1947 thanks for the detailed reply, it's appreciated!
I've been using a whole house ozone machine for over a year now. I set it on a timer to come on at 9am, off at 9pm. Adjust the level to just under being able to smell the ozone. It's located at my air handler's cold air return, so it gets blown throughout the house.
My 4 tanks water is perfectly clear. I do however have a bit of cyano on 2 of the tanks.
My house has noticeably much less dust than before, I live on a gravel road so dust is a huge factor.
So, my experience is that I don't need to put an expensive ozone machine directly on my skimmer, I just slightly treat the air in my home, and have a similar effect.
what about calcium carbonate?
Sweet! I have his fish. My old female clown does that thing where she breathes heavily for 3 days, stays in her cave doesn’t eat,,, then fine days later. No ozone that tank, I may add. Is not Ick, no ick in my house. The article on Tang aggression on Marine Collectors website is a bible for fish aggression.
Just want to say thank you. It frustrates me so much when I see people support terrorists. I hope the rest of the world open their eyes soon
WTF are you talking about?
Well you could cut the Video to 5 minutes and the ozone and hydrogenperoxide stuff was so cringe. When people doesn't know a thing about chemistry and understood a little obvious thing by accident