Dirty little secrets of elite PhD programs
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In this video in a share with you the dirty little secrets of elite PhD programs and how, actually, they are found in nearly all PhD programs to some extent.
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▼ ▽ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - bias and stereotypes
1:55 - disclaimer
2:37 - business
4:06 - professors are God
5:46 - zero career support
6:59 - relationships and connections
7:58 - politics
9:11 - hyper competitiveness
10:47 - mental health
11:37 - supervisor availability
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As a pure math PhD student, I am grateful not to have to work in a lab, everytime I see one of your videos
Nothing like this in an Ivory Tower then? Just joking. I love maths.
2 years into PhD. Ghost advisor.. became absolutely independent on needing guidance..have few master thesis students with me.. now I have a mini team of my own..guess that's a plus for the moment...
Are you at Oxford, by any chance?
@@Indresh2468 EPFL :)
@@suhas7385 would you mind sharing in which department that is? I'm at Unil and am considering applying for a thesis at epfl
Sadly I've heard of every single issue you talked about here. However, this happens in the 'non-elite' PhD programs too!
hj
Currently in my second year of a PhD program at an elite university. Wish I would’ve declined it for a lower level school. Very toxic environment indeed.
"Elite"...
I can corroborate the opinions quoted in the first minute. In 2010 (roughly) I applied for a PhD position in chemical engineering. I'm Dutch and the position was in the Netherlands. The professor told me I wouldn't make the shortlist regardless because he'd much rather have someone from China or Iran because they are not so pampered as the Dutch and will work insane hours / boost the professor's output.
@@hellosunnymorning your comment oozes resentment. Also, you are confusing socialism with a dictatorship. Cheers.
I'm currently completing a PhD at Cambridge, and while some of what you say is true (particularly in relation to some supervisor relationships), I have found my research group and department to my extremely friendly, non-toxic, and collaborative - not a stressful & competative environment at all
Seconded. And wrt mental health support, my college organised and funded basically unlimited counselling for me and paid for a private autism assessment. Don’t know if that’s available at newer colleges (eg Clare Hall) though
@@fredgoodyer4907 "Autism"... Yeah sure 😂
@@boredscientist5756 I am rather confused by your response. Could you elaborate please?
The lab I work with is the same! It’s very productive and people work so well together. My PI works hard to make sure we love the work and the environment so I feel lucky to be where I am.
@@hellosunnymorning ...This PhD would have been immediately fired... I don't understand your comment!
Its true that many elite universities have toxic environments and labs. But within these places, good PIs can still exist. Speaking from personal experience, it is ok to leave a lab where the environment is toxic for another more supportive lab. it will be scary and few people might support you, especially if you are a few years in. I personally left an abusive lab half way through my 4th year. (US PhD student here) but in the end, a PhD is a small part of a larger scientific journey. While I let go of a potentially huge publication, I think it was worth it as I do not think I would have been proud of the work done in such an environment where I was consistently forced to compromise and not do good science but focus on flashy science instead. I am glad to have found a much more supportive advisor in the same institution who challenges me scientifically and gives me the feedback I need. Furthermore, I am confident that moving toward graduation, I have someone who is invested in my career success and is available to open up doors for new opportunities for me, rather than someone who is consistently looking to put me down or even setting me up to fail simply because I didn't fit into the mold of what their ideal PhD student should be.
That's accurate! I'm a hijaby Muslim woman pursuing my PhD in Belgium. I frequently hear that I can't do this or that because of my sex or religion, but this has never affected my goals, what I want to be, or what I want to accomplish. In fact, it makes such challenges more exciting, and that's what I advise all women of all religions to do: never let anyone change who you truly are and who you want to be. All the best to you!
I feel for you.
Let your ridiculous religion out of science, thank you!
Believe me, that will make you more successful than all of them!!! We PhDs should support each other
@@AVANGuAR Indeed, positive attitude always leads to great outcomes. 🤍💪
@@ZainabOuardirhi from my experience, women in engineering or software development are way better and more successful than men… when you tell somebody they can’t do it, they will eventually prove you wrong
Glad you brought this up... your topic selections are always so apt
Applying to my PhD program next month. Great videos all around, keep it up!
I worked as technical support in a non elite university a particular academic who I was developing some undergraduate practicals with asked me did I want to do a part time phd .My peers got wind of this the bullying was off the scale ! They hid my equipment, made me look so incompetent, accused me of being on drugs and when the found out I was on anti depressants sent me for a medical .I was dismissed and have not had a job since .
Thank for being honest and sharing such information. Yes, I heard about these terrible secrets and thus I decided not to apply for an “elite” program.
I've either experienced these or have seen them first hand happen to Post-Docs, Ph.D candidates, and MS. I am an undergrad about to graduate.
I've worked in 4 labs. I've had a professor tell me that I don't belong in academia. That professor also told blatant racist and sexiest jokes to the class they taught. That professor also had a total of 5 students submit a complaint about him in a single semester and he still has his job, even with some of his verbal behaviors on recording.
I'm not even at a prestigeous school. But if you're considered female, anyone that's not male.....bullying, being asked to clean the lab even if you're a Post-Doc, is not off the table and occurs frequently. And nothing is done about it even if everyone in the lab tells the PI about it.
I've loved doing research and writing up papers and presenting at symposiums. But the sheer degree of sexism and racism and discrimination that exists on top of lack of job security and pay is making me reconsider fields.
Being a scientist was all I ever wanted to do. But the reality of how things are run and the return you get for it doesn't seem worth it. I still have to live and pay bills. It's heart breaking.
Maybe try industry research?
@@siamsama2581 industry research can be very hard to get in if you are not graduating from the right university in the right place(mostly US)
These biases (not to mention, ageism), elitism (especially here in the USA), and the shameful turn of universities to not allow freedom of speech and thought is why I have decided not to pursue my PhD at this time. This was not how higher education was supposed to be. :(
It is a place of class conflict.
You don't have to pursue a PhD in America. Go to Germany where tuition is free or other Nordic countries where treatment is significantly better.
@@MrGTO86 And how are you going to pay for living expenses?
Depends on what you mean by "freedom of speech and thought"
@@Heyu7her3 I mean the freedom to express your opinions without fear of retribution, even if they go against the current woke ideology so prevalent here at universities in the USA. After all, this is what the 1st amendment of our constitution is all about.
Nice to see guys are talking about toxic environment in the lab. Thank you.
I heard that students from developing countries are easier to be pressured. That they won't complaint much even if they are being pushed hard.
Oh wow, you’re here in Adelaide! That’s amazing!
I don't know why but literally i play your every video that comes into my feed
You are my motivation
Could you talk one video on math? It's a bit different than the rest of fields.
Thanks for the video!
Ghost advisors definitely are a thing. I don't even know who my thesis advisor is, but this is history so only my name goes on the research.
I would say that it's the smaller Universities in rural areas that the same problems are worst. The professors are not competitive on an international level, don't get funding from grants, and are wholly dependent on local politics. As result research teams don't grow, and the competition for the few places and funds is extreme. Additionally, in many places, the local university is one of the few big employers. As a result, the competition for a Ph.D. or post-doc from local students is vicious as the positions offer better pay than the local industry. I've seen people go for more than a year unpaid, only on the promise that they will eventually get a one-year post-doc grant!
Agree with you. They refused me for such reasons. Could you give us some adivices for people too old to go through this process. Publications…
I recently stumbled upon your channel. Great content. I am OMSCS student at georgia tech, doing it along with my full time job and want to get a PHD after my OMSCS. I was wondering if you have any advise for people like me.
I have encountered most of this stuff where I am, and a solution I have created, might not work everywhere or even be possible for everyone, is create psych profiles of all the supervisors before even talking to them.
After that, only talking to the one who, according to the profile, will not actively or passively sabotage you.
Downside is that if the status quo changes drastically/unpredictably, the ones you were avoiding but they wanted your project, come into influence, they can do normally actively attack your project or you personally.
The thing I hate the most about it is seeing succesful professors in highly rated universities who mostly hire people of their nationality
Not necessarily. A lot of professors hire exclusively people they worked with previously (nepotism is a thing).
All of these were sooooo accurate during my masters program.
My honours supervisor was invited to talk about his art in Egypt, then took a holiday in London before coming back to Australia.
I'm glad you talked about this, because not so many people say it...some professors even a whole department/ school are usually bias (based on nationality, race, gender, even first language) and they show it clearly... bullying also
Are you living in hell...? My PhD was the exact opposite: huge mix of people from ALL over the world, 5K per month, travelling the world for conferences/workshops/secondments, a very supportive EU commission, project supervisor and lab!
Drop the race/nationality/gender card.... You are ridiculous! It is NOT the norm...
@@boredscientist5756 maybe you live in hell...I never said it was the norm... because you've never experienced something doesn't mean it does not happen...
I'm not even doing my PhD yet... I've had the opportunity of being in different institutions and most were very nice and inclusive..
@@KALE18 Why are you even commenting on PhDs' life then...? 😅
@@boredscientist5756 I'm a graduate student 😏
I am doing masters in Agricultural biotechnology from Kyungpook National University South korea.
I did my master from Korea recently
Academics I met didn't have home country bias, they had personal bias. As in they almost exclusively took PhD students they previously taught.
On one side you seem obsessed by the academic problems. But on the other side this is the most effective and real denounce of what it is going on. I did one postdoc of two year, one of one year and started a third for Half a year just to find an exit. In the first two it was impossible to talk with anyone. Zero inclusion. The last was the unique where I could have had a minimal inclusion being insistent, but I was done and I wanted to go out.
This is spot on. I know a professor of a science subject and he told me he gets annoyed and can't tolerate when a PhD student has anxiety. There is no empathy towards the student. The privaledged professor has studied and worked in the same science subject for many years but has limited emotional intelligence skills.
I've personally overheard a research associate professor in my lab say "I only want to look for a Japanese post doc because I know they will work hard".
My jaw almost fell off listening to this - and no one in the room said anything! #disgusting
@@stefanp89 Maybe you should unionize. Start with the book "Secrets of a successful Organizer".
I heard this exact thing at a conference
But it’s true on average that students from Northeast Asia work harder than any other background. From a young age, they’ve been going to school from early morning to late evening. It’s how they’ve been socialized. White progressives see racism when it’s just facts. Go live and work in non-Western countries and challenge your racist progressive assumptions.
@@dr.winstonsmith ok doc
Can we use the data obtained in pilot study in final result discussion?
Good to know. This is so dark... I hope the culture will change soon.
I am a master student in Georgia Tech aerospace engineering. Just staying in the lab group this semester, I can already feel the fierce competitiveness in the group. The professor is always too busy to talk. So, I am really being advised by a senior PhD in the group. There are many moments that the senior PhD criticizes me for many tiny-bitty things, e.g., the way I talk with the professor is not polite enough, my paper writing skills are terrible, I am just too lazy to figure out this detailed proof (I tried really hard on these things). He just can’t genuinely realize that everyone has a learning curve, although he says he is aware of that. I can see no understanding of my situation from my interaction with this senior PhD. His condescending attitude towards me constantly reminds me that I am viewed as a low level “slave” inside the group. At this moment of deciding whether I want to continue PhD in this group, this experience really gives me a second thought, even on the question whether I should do PhD.
I did PhD at gatech. Are you in the aero group that has like 50 PhD students at a time. Heard it's brutal in that group
@@rajlal2384 I am not sure which group you are referring to. But I am in a big group with almost 30 people in it right now, my concentration is on control. I have little attention in that group, really frustrating.
Yes i believe this is the one in thinking of. I had a really close friend who was in that group. Said one of the research scientists was super helpful and actually offered support
I had to create research that would be presented by other students to artificially boost my supervisors "mentorship" profile.
I understand what grant and ip money is, but what is industry money?
Advisor makes huge difference, some take pride in being difficult. Fortunately that guy died right after I left so my successor students didn't have it so bad.
As a PhD in the social sciences in an elite university this hasn't been my experience. Though I believe this is likely the case in the natural sciences and engineering.
Social sciences don't rely on grants and their professors don't become entrepreneurs. You'll find the worst behavior is in fields where university prestige can translate into real-world riches.
I didn't experience this personally, but I met some guys doing philosophy in grad school, thirty years ago, and they felt that in their department their gender made them second class citizens. In particular, they complained that scholarships and teaching assistantships invariably went to female students At the time I would have assumed that was to be expected.
Would you quit a well paid job and a stable life to go to PhD (linguistics) under the assumption that this will get you into a better paid and permanent job in the future? Your videos are the best of the best in these matters btw!
I am from India and I am working my ass off 🤧
Did you expect an easy ride ? PhD's are meant to be hard and challenging.
Mentor!
Interesting perspective. Currently in my PhD, have been to over 3 Universities in Canada and the UK and all staff (especially upper-level academics and heads of departments) are continually bending over backwards to NOT sound or appear racist/sexist.
The bias topic turns my stomach. Completely unacceptable.
I was the most hardworking students than any Chinese in the lab.
As the saying goes "Everyone thinks his backpack is the heaviest."
Many old professors in nanoelectronics of National Taiwan University are just what you describe in this video. 🤣 They think they are god and can do anything they want. I’ve heard several data stealing events.
There should be a version of your channel that targets the Humanities. Your content seems entirely geared toward Science and Engineering. For instance, nothing that comes out of an English Department is going to result in a spin-off company.
This is why science is stagnent in the west, I even found a japanese children's science book many years ago that explained bird evolution in a more accurate and much more up to date manner than was availeble to the general public in British or American publications or popular journals at the time
Always good to know you´re at a disadvantage just because one is a woman.
Competitive fields, high risk/reward fields, high physical/emotional stress fields, and high up front commitments always filter out women. Doesn't matter if it's higher academia, armed services, businesses, politics, or anything else. No bias necessary. In fact our generation has a disproportionately large amount of women in these fields because we think it's sexy.
Who is having the opinion that Indian students are lazy?
As a computer scientist, it is shocking to hear anybody say that all Indians are lazy.
It's like... 90%, tops, +/- 5%.
(The non-lazy ones are goddamn superheroes and are absolute joys to collaborate with. I don't know how they hold it together. But let's not pretend the bias isn't based in fact, mate.)
i noticed a lot of the female phd students from 3rd world countries at my school would mysteriously seem to get pregnant in their first year
😂😂
Ugh
Truth that white progressives will not want to hear.
Pressure to produce something useful to society, disgusting
Women getting pregnant is not a "bias" but just acknowledgment of reality.
A friend who had an idea for PhD their prof stole the idea gave it to another student and kicked the guy who had the idea off the project. Also a lot of private companies who want phd workers will underpay them big time. Any innovations you come up with in a company keep to yourself never release it as a business as it will just get cloned and slightly changed. Keep your $$$ knowledge and secrets and use it to get pay rises.
The companies are valuing them based on actual utility, not based on the difficulty of the degree.
Indian student are lazy is true as majority of student in international university are from upper caste background, their caste privilege connections has helped them immensely in India but in foreign countries it's different game all together, also caste privilege had allowed only upper caste indians to become professors abroad. Though it is also true the foreign professors do not challenge this kind of upper caste hegemony rather further it to strengthen their carriers in India.
What
I absolutely do not agree with what duskyme is saying. I am a so called lower caste Indian and also a PhD student in the Netherlands. No one in my lab can say that I am lazy. And I can say the same for some other Indian PhD students as well.
Keep whining about the non-existent 'upper caste' privilege while every other hard-working person takes what they deserve instead of crying about no place for them in reserve.
Amazing to see people coming up against this narratives. Unity in Diversity
What sort of mindset is this? Upper cast privilege while pursuing PhD? Don't set false narratives.