Mirage F1 vs MIG-21 - South African Border War, Angola 1981
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2022
- In 1981, South African armed forces launched several offensive operations into Angola. Their objective was to push SWAPO units away from the border with South-West Africa (now Namibia), then under South African administration. Initially, Angolan Air Force flown mostly by Cuban pilots chose not to confront South African Air Force and their Mirage F1s. But during Operation Daisy in November 1981, two MiG-21s flown by two inexperienced Cuban lieutenants clashed with two South African pilots. Check out how it ended in this DCS World reenactment using the newest jet fighter module, Mirage F1.
Sources:
- Brigadier General Dick Lord - From Fledgling to Eagle: The South African Air Force during the Border War
amzn.to/3AjoQC7
- Peter Baxter - SAAF's BorderWar - The South African Air Force In Combat 1966-89
amzn.to/3KeO6OC
- Tom Cooper, Adrien Fontanellaz, José Augusto Matos - War of Intervention in Angola, Volume 3
amzn.to/3ApZQJI
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Music:_ SOFRA - African Percussion
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#militaryaviationhistory #borderwars #dcsworldhistoricalreenactment - Hry
And that’s 10 min of air war history right there :-D. Wonderful to get a glimpse of these lesser know conflicts. Thank you
I'm glad to hear that you appreciate it!
@@showtime112 keep it up! DCS is more than dog fights and it’s an immense pleasure to see under represented episodes like this one!
I know the story, my father was a pilot in the FAR, he fought in Angola. He was the CO of the Lubango AFB in 85 to 86. Thanks for showing it. Cuba never showed much about it.
Thank you for your comment! Feel free to watch the video about the second clash between Mirages and MiGs (if you haven't already)
Cuba here right now
Here's some South African perspective of this dogfight.
czcams.com/video/H_Er204tbTA/video.html
Dude! My grandpa also served in Angola, Lieutenant Colonel! He told me a lot of the unknown history and some of the times he would stick it to the communists despite his position lol
I was a South African paratrooper in Angola in 85 and 86. The Cuban pilots were always a threat to us and we had to be very careful not to be discovered by them while operating on the ground.
The South African artillery brigades combat during the Border War is a fascinating story to read too. They were often firing at the very extremity of their artillery range, but were very good at it.
Generally, this war is not so well known in the West. Good thing is that there's a whole bunch of literature covering it for anyone who's interested.
They were using Denel / Armscor G-4 (G-5, G-6) mobile artillery, some of the longest range in the world at the time (so I was told).
The SADF batteries were never intercepted by the cubans and dominated the battlefield.
Love these little glimpses into the oft-neglected corners of military aviation History. Very much appreciate the straightforward presentation, and especially the acknowledgement that variables like pilot experience, mission planning and equipment failures can have an immense impact on the outcome of air combat. Too many 'analysts' would simply chalk this up as 'Mirage's 1, MiG's 0' without any attempt to consider the context. :)
Thanks for this feedback! Just like always, a precisely matched fights are a rarity. One side always has the upper hand from the very beginning.
Major Johan V callsign “Scorpio” was a friend from many years back. In 1995 “Scorpio” was with Eight-Five Squadron the Silver Falcons out of Hoedspuirt A.F.B close to the Kruger National Park. Part of my honeymoon whilst visiting S.A. back then was spending time with Eight Five Squadron. Think I was the only US Navy P-3C Orion flyer to have visited Hoefspruit and ride the Impala
Thanks for sharing your experience!
1 SQN Mirage F1 AZ, '84 to '86.
Col Rankin was our squadron commander.
He killed this Mig 23.
I know some sources cite the Angolan Mig-21 pilots as inferior to the Cuban Mig-23 pilots, but if you could fly a Mig-21, you are a heck of a pilot! Mad respect for all the pilots of all sides in this conflict. Have you done a Mig-23 vs. Mirage F1 vid yet?
Thanks for the comment. As for F1 vs MiG-23, it could be done but a proper MiG-23 module is being developed so I'll probably wait for that. It'll look much better.
Good video. On the one hand, South Africa was hamstrung by UN sanctions and was unable to import air-to-air missiles after 1978. The SAAF was stuck with crude, early-generation Matra Magic SRAAMs and the locally developed Kukri SRAAM, which performed poorly (despite its revolutionary helmet-mounted sight). This situation improved somewhat by the late 1980s when the SAAF was able to finagle a purchase of Python III missiles, which it coyly dubbed the "V3S Snake". The highly promising A-Darter and R-Darter missiles and the Atlas Cheetah fighter (essentially a project to convert Mirage IIIs into Kfir C7s with refined/uprated Atar 9K-50 engines instead of GE J79s) came too late to see service in the Angolan war.
On the other, although initially outmatched by SAAF Mirages in the 1970s and early 1980s, the FAPLA/Cuban air forces buffered their MiG-21 force with MiG-23MF/ML fighters by the mid-1980s. The latter had the many advantages over the Mirages: faster acceleration, higher power-to-weight ratio, more powerful radar, and advanced AAMs such as the AA-8 and AA-7. The MiG-23 was largely capable of setting the terms of engagement and escaping when ambushed. However, despite receiving overwhelmingly numbers of superior aircraft, establishing extensive radar coverage, and a operating a bristling SAM network, FAPLA/Cuban ground forces never attained meaningful air superiority. The SAAF circumvented these defenses and continued to conduct air raids on FAPLA forces throughout the war.
Thanks for adding details. I can't wait for the Razbam's MiG-23 module to do their clashes with the Mirages over Angola.
@@showtime112 Awesome. I look forward to those. I wonder how the F-1CZ could have performed against the MiG-23ML had it been able to use Magic II and Super 530 AAMs.
Just note that A-Darter is a very modern missile and its development only started on the mid-2000's with a goal to reach service by 2015. Well, well after the war and it was never carried on the Cheetah. R-Darter (V4 in service) is also a late development/purchase only reaching service in 2000, again well after the war. V3S was supposed to be our modern missile pending arrival of local V3C (Which never really reached production status). It equipped all fighter types in service at the time to replace the rear-aspect M550 and V3B's. Integration started in 1988 but as you said, too late to feature in the war.
@@martinstrumpfer1620 Thanks for clarifying those details, Martin.
@@andrewmorke Iraq managed to shoot down a few Iranian Tomcat (vastly superior to say the truth) with Super 530F. So I think it would allow to compete with R-23/ R-24 missiles.
Awesome stuff brother this is a masterpiece of military aviation history 🔥🔥🔥 what an Air Force the South Afrikans had glory days of SADF 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate this.
@@showtime112 keep up the great work bro
Glad you covered this conflict as soon the mirage F1 is out! It's an interesting conflict that overlooked by many
I've so far done only one video about the Border War and it was very successful. I knew I had to cover it again as soon as Mirage becomes available.
Showtime112, nice video. Loved it :D
Just a side comment... In october 2nd 1981, my uncle (then Leutenant) Raciel Marrero and his wingman engaged both a pair of South African Mirages. My uncle was shot down though he managed to reach the airport (South African forces stated otherwise, but I can pretty much confirm he is alive and well right now, he actually retired with the ranks of Leutenant Colonel). I believe, as far as I remember the story, that he was actually shot down by Major Johann Rankin. So, thanks for the video, it made me remember some stories I cherish as treasures :D
October 1982 😅😅😅😅
Thank you for watching the video and commenting! The incident featuring your uncle will be shown in the next video scheduled for release next Saturday. I do mention both versions. Soth African side claims a kill but there's no detail of Rankin observing an ejection or a crash. Cobus Toerien, the South African wingman says that both Cuban pilots were alive and that he made a contact with them later. Feel free to let me know what you think of that one.
@@showtime112 thank you very much!! I'm a faithful follower of this channel and I would be very glad to see a video about it 😁 I remember my uncle telling me that one of the pilots attempted to contact him some time after; I guess it was Toerien then. It is a shame that he lives a little bit far from me (I live in Havana, my uncle still lives in Holguin, roughly 800km apart) but he would love to see this. Rankin couldn't see an ejection or crash since, as far as I remember, my uncle hit full afterburner and flew following the terrain contour until he made a landing. His plane was heavily damaged though, and he also suffered minor phisical harm as a consequence. He told me that a bullet passed quite near the cabin and almost hit him. My uncle went to court martial for the incident, though he continued flying for a long time. I remember the results of that court martial actually upset him pretty much, and he says GCI was responsible for most of the outcome. He retired being instructor pilot of MiG-23s and with the ranks of Leutenant Colonel, circa the 2000s. He now spends his time working the land. The last time I saw him personally, about the year before the Coronavirus outbreak, he told me that he wasn't completely happy with the official version given by the DAAFAR. Another cool fact is that he wasn't entirely agreeing with GCI during the flight, specially with the flight level vectoring (something about GCI vectoring them way too low or high, I can't recall), but he had to follow orders strictly since disobeying a direct order in that context could carry him to court martial with possible death penalty outcome (it is contemplated in the armed forces... I passed obligatory military service and once had a glimpse into the officer's manual and read it can be applyied in dependency of the severity of the violation)
Once again, thank you very much for such quality content. I enjoy it very much 😊 Cheers
Very interesting hearing your side of the conflict. Glad your Uncle made it, is still alive and well.
Greetings from South Africa.
@@thepatriotsrage661 Thank you :D I actually shown him the video a few days ago and he said that it is one of the most accurate versions he has ever seen of this particular event. He still disagrees with the DAAFAR official version xD. Greetings from Havana :)
Nice video. Some corrections: At 2:15, you claim SA planned to annex SWA. This was raised at various times, but was never policy. South Africa actually gave SWA-Namibia independence following an election in 1985, creating the Transitional Government of National Unity. The UN only
recognised the Stalinist SWAPO, who had every chance to take part in elections, but refused. 2:51. 'Angola in turn received strong support from the Communist Bloc'. That's backwards. The Angolan one-party communist state, MPLA whose army was called FAPLA, were supported by the USSR and Cuba from the 1960s and in 1975.
But hey, a really great video and great visuals!!
Thanks for adding info. This chanel doesn't focus on politics and sometimes, a certain {very simplified) view is given just to give some basic idea to the viewers who know little or nothing about it. The Border War is quite complex and it would take a video three times the length of this one just to give basic facts. And of course, there would be disagreements 😁
@@showtime112 Fair enough. All I ask is that people give accurate information! I am in touch with one of the authors you quoted and he is extremely biased pro-Cuba et al. My wife, who studies this in the archives, is working to "mend his ways."
It's still a great video. Your visuals are reall briilliant!
You always get a lacky that thinks he knows our history.
@@woff1959 one party state? Yours was a one skin colour state. Disgusting
Nice reply, better context may have been the Soviet southwards encroachment on the continent ... Mozambique, Rhodesia ... and South Africa, having a mandate to administer SWA, and covert, erratic support from the USA attempted to stem the tide.
Very well done!
Someone made more accurate skins of the SAAF Mirages, both corrected camo with corrected insignia and the low visibility scheme. I think the low viz is still WIP though but keep an eye out, they look beautiful.
Thanks. Those skins came after the video was complete. As for the low visibility, I really could have used that one for the part two. You'll see why soon 😁
I read about this fight a long time ago. Your reenactments are more enjoyable. Keep it up my friend
I'm a sucker for lesser known 20th century conflicts!
Thnak you very much for this african adventure about this part of South African border war. The South African pilots of the MIRAGE F1 CZ suffer of the embargo about the missiles during a large part of this war and these missiles are poor in efficiency. They didn't have the R 530 EM, they have only sidewinders or Magic II which equiped the MIRAGE F1 AZ too for their defense. Congratulations for this story, and we are waiting more about this particular war. It was a pleasure, keep going, it was great.
Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. I expect this topic was something that many waited for.
The F1AZ carried the V3B Kukri on operations for self defence. The Sidewinder was replaced early in SAAF service as they only had the AIM-9B used on the first Mirage IIICZ's. The F1CZ carried the Matra M550 (Magic II only came in mid 80's - well after imposed embargo took effect) and could also carry the V3B but this wasn't done when deployed on operations. The SAAF did have an early Matra 530 variant but its performance was quite poor and it was barely used at all even on training flights in SA.
@@martinstrumpfer1620 Thank you very much for this details. They had the mirage IIICZ and the MIRAGE R for reco too before buy MIRAGE F1, that's true. They have built their own air-soil missile for their Bucaneer cause of the embargo during the 80's.
@@jeannezehner9450 SAAF Buccaneers never carried locally developed A2G missiles - none were developed at all. Only the French built AS-20 (training) and AS-30 (operationally).
@@martinstrumpfer1620 It's my fault, I have made a mistake, it's not a missile, it's a sort of GBU that they used duting soout african boerder war. They have made this by themself. They have bombed a bridge with. I have seen that on a video. It's guided by TV screen.
Great work man, I usually skim through long videos but this was very entertaining and informative 👏🏽👏🏽
Thank you, glad to hear it!
The heat haze is odd, I kew one of the F1 pilots who engaged a Mig and escorted a defecting Mig, I have his log book, flight suit and gear and the Mig pilot's helmet and mask still. He died recently from an illness RIP
You mean the engine heat? It seems alright to me. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Don’t forget that Russia also became heavily involved. We fought communist attacks for over 30 years. The threats were against South Africa via the borders, not to own South West Africa.
One of my new favourite channels, working from your old vids to the new. Keep it up mate
Thank you! I'm especially happy when older videos get some attention.
Awesome video! Would love for you to do a video of the battle of Cassinga. It was the largest airborne Assualt since market garden in World War 2, performed by the South African Defence Force in Angola in 1978.
Thanks for the comment! The topic you suggest would currently be very hard to do because we have almost none of the assets used there in DCS World.
@@showtime112 Yes, that is unfortunate. I know there is a C-130 mod for DCS, but the C-160 Transall and the Buccaneer might be problematic. If I recall, there was a Canberra mod around, or I might be mistaken. Hopefully one day.
Very good stuff guys. Keep it up! Very well documented
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate it!
Wow, now that was a loooong waited one! 😎 I love war stories from exotic places. 🙂
Glad to hear it! You will like the next couple of videos.
@showtime112 Awesome work on these videos. I love the concept and your commentary. Fantastic!
So good to hear you like it. Keep watching!
When South Africa was a world power, I witnessed that Country.
Great recreation
Thank you, glad you liked it!
Pilot was Johann Rankin and his mate DU Plessis and for second fight one year later Cobus Toerien
That's right. Second clash coming up soon.
@@showtime112 hello it's 34500 dauphin. Will follow Act 2 With my cellular during holidays
The cold war was not so cold for a lot of people, often crual and deadly, especially for millions of civilians
Well, that's true. The term primarily means there was no general conflict between the two blocks but there were plenty of 'hot' wars.
Cool! May I suggest a video covering Mirage F1 vs SU-22 in the cenepa war in Ecuador?
Thanks! This topic is being considered and researched. We only have an AI Su-17 in DCS but it might be workable nevertheless. A developer is supposedly working on a high-fidelity of the 17 or 22 but that will take years.
Intro music was spot on here, nice job
Thank you very much, I'm glad you think so!
Excellent video. Thank you.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Great Vid.
Love your work 👍👍👍
Thank you, I'm glad to hear it!
Great work man 🙌
Always looking forward to your next installment, I've been enjoying the Mirage F1 so much since it's release last week - it's such a nice jet to fly!
Keep up the good work, informative and beautifully put together as always 🔥
Thank you! I love the Mirage too, finally a new jet fighter after a long helicopter and warbird period. Spoiler alert: more Mirage content coming up in the near future!
There’s a book called “the last hot battle of the Cold War “by Peter Polack…it details the conflict pretty well…particularly the decisive battle of Cuito Cuanavale….the SADF offensive though made initial headway stalled and the Angolan/Cuban counterattack was turned back….thus stalemated both sides eventually withdrew after lengthy negotiations…
This conflict is surprisingly well covered in various books, considering the fact that most people in the West don't know much about it.
Not entirely true though. All the SADF objectives were met.
It was a political decision to not cross the lomba and completely destroy the cuban/fapla forces.
Also keep in mind the SADF numbered 3500 troops on that operation while the Cubans had 50 000 troops in Angola and fapla numbered 200 000. I'm not suggesting all 250 000 were present at Cuito though.
The name of Cuito Cuanavale is just a general name for 6 months of operations that never reached the town even though it was shelled.
The SADF never intended taking the town or go so far into Angola. They initially only wanted to stop the Angolan invasion and protect UNITA.
Great vídeo, i liked so much.
Thanks for the feedback!
great to see the South African F1 even if they did get the skin wrong.
Thank you for what you are doing.
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Nice video!
Thanks for the feedback!
Nice video thank you.
Thank you for commenting!
Top vid dude
Thank you for this very positive comment!
I love the camera angles chosen for this vid..
Thanks! Actually, I was quite limited with what I could do because the replay track didn't work well. So, the main shootdown scene was recorded live with cockpit view only.
Wow Great video ! No i realize that Mirage F1 is more modern than Mirage III/V.
Mirage F1 is more look like MiG-23 with fixed wings.
i consider the main rivals of MiG-21 are Mirage III/V, because of similar delta wing design and their confrontation in Arab-Israel wars and Indo-Pakistan wars.
Thanks. F1 and MiG-23 were the same generation and similar capabilities. They actually clashed in Angola a few years later.
Showtime 112 thank you for a delightful and accurate video. I have subscribed and will send it to my friends. Keep it coming.
Thank you, It's good to hear that new viewers are coming to the channel!
Odlican kanal, pretplatio se i pratim 😉
Zahvaljujem!
I actually read that Angola’s MiG-21MF Fishbeds and other Soviet built aircraft were piloted by Cuban and even East German advisors
They were Cubans, true.
@@showtime112 And East German
Cubans? East Germans? Soviets? Yup... but did you forget here about the intervention of the United States and Israel? In fact, the US has been involved in EVERY war in the 20th century, and counting. Now, please check out these FACTS that are on the Web: "In 250 years of existence as a nation, the US has fought against 29 sovereign countries. (In Fact, since 1785, we have been involved, for 231 years, in some kind of war. And this wars, against all varieties of nations. From going against the Sultan of Morocco, to invading the tiny island of Grenada. Well, this means that in our entire history, we have only had 17 years of peace, and even fewer, cuz here the almost 5 years of our Civil War (Union/Confed 1861‒1865), are Not counted, since this war was not with another country, but against us. And the wars against the Native Nations of America either are not counted, for the same reason). Anyway: We fought against 29 countries. We have "Grown" 711 the size of our territory from the original 13 colonies. Our Economic, Political and Military development was established thanks to the Piracy, the Slavery, the Massacres, the Opium Trade or Cocaine Traffic, and the Weakness of many abused sovereign nations. We have provoked with total impunity, 12 Genocides ‒inside and outside our own borders‒, and Assassinations of Gov’t. Leaders, Coups d'État and Economic Blockades in 6 UN member nations. Between 1947 and 1989, the US tried to change other nations gov’ts 73 times. It includes 66 covert Ops. And 7 overt ones. In Civil Wars: The US has taken advantage of and intervened without justification in the following Civil Wars: In Marquesas Island. (Massacre. 1813). US Forces seize Nuku Hiva Island (French Polynesia 1813), and establish here «The First US Naval Base», in the Pacific. This historical fact is important, cuz in 1813, the US had NO Territorial Land nor Maritime Rights in the Pacific Ocean, until 1848, when the US seized California and other Mexican territories facing the Pacific. In Haiti (1813 and 1901 and then 1915-1934-2001). In Hawaii (1889 and 1890-1893 and 1901). youtu.be/C2bjjwv41. In Cuba (1898 and 1901-1902 and 1906 and 1913 and 1952 and again 1960). In Colombia (1899-1902 and 1948). In Mexico (1836 and 1847 and 1886 and 1904 and 1914 and again in 1916). In Russia (1918). In the "Republic Banana Wars" of Central America. (Massacre. 1912-1934). In Honduras (1903 and 1912 and 1919 and 1924-1925 and again 2009). In Venezuela (1936 and 1945 and again in 1948). Military Coup in Peru (1948 and 1967). In China (1857, and 1900, and 1913, and again in 1945-1946-1949). Military assistance to Chinese rebels in Taiwan (1951-1952). In Korea (1950-1953). In Vietnam (Massacre and Genocide. 1959-1975). In Panama (1856, and 1903, and 1964-1968, and again 1989). In Brazil (1950 and 1959 and 1964 and again in 2016). Coup and Intervention in Guatemala (1944, and 1954, and 1966, and again 1982-1985). Coup and subsequent Fascist regime in Greece (1967). The Hunting for Che Guevara, in Bolivia (1968). The “Bombing of Laos” (1971-1973). US Military assistance in the Coup in Bolivia (Copper Mining Co. 1971). Entry of US Troops into Nicaragua (1937 and 1972-1973, and 1983 and again 1995). Coup in Chile. Salvador Allende. (Genocide. 1973). Terror in Uruguay. (Genocide. 1973). Support for the regime of Moboth, in Zaire (Genocide. 1974). Attack on Cambodia (Kampuchea. 1975). Argentina (1976-1986). Support for the cannibal Jean-Bédel Bokassa, in Central African Republic. (Genocide. 1979). We, the US, assistance Saddam Hussein against Iran. (One Million dead in ten years. 1980-1990). Support and funding of the Khmer Rouge. (Genocide 1980). In Angola-Namibia. (Massacre. 1980-1981-1984). In Bosnia (1995)... In Libya, Palestine, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, in Kosovo, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc. And more: We have almost 800 Military Bases scattered around the world; 93 of which are against China. On the other hand, China and Korea (The "Axis of Evil"), in 1,000 years of history have NEVER invaded anyone. These nations have fought their Civil Wars, defended themselves against foreign invasions, and secured their immediate borders, but they have never been meddling or aggressor countries. China is a Nation of Peace. China does NOT Attack anyone. China does NOT Invade nor does it Steal territories of other sovereign nations. China does NOT Intervene in any neighboring nor distant country. Do you know how many Military Bases China or Korea have outside their territory? None. Zero. Any. NADA! They do not have a single Military Base. (The “Chinese Military Base” in Djibouti is actually a Guard Post, with three Artillery Frigates and Choppters to protect against the Somali Pirates. And the “Chinese Military Base” of Patagonia, in Argentina. Well, you don't need to be an expert in strategy here to understand that this is nonsense, unless you think that the Chinese intend to keep all the ice in Antarctica. The Chinese will NOT put a Military Base 7000 miles from the objetive: Washington D.C. So in Argentina there, it is, a Radar Station for they Chinise Space Program. These are verifiable facts). Neither China nor Korea will invade the world; We do... that's DONE, as we do in the Middle East. Iran also does not have a SINGLE MILITARY BASE outside its national territory, and it is surrounded by 16 US Bases, and it is we who call the Iranians Terrorists. LOL --And now, we have ANOTHER WAR on our doorstep, for trying to inaugurate another Military Base in the Ukraine... WHO CARES!!! "War is a Business".
Good work. What is the airbase used in the simulation?
Thanks! I used Tiyas for the South African base (with reduction of some scenery). For the Angolan base, Minakh I think.
Magnificent video... congratulations for such a good job... could you please make a video of a combat simulation between a Mirage F-1 and a MIG-23... thanks.
Thsnks! The clashes between F1 and MiG-23 will be covered once a proper MiG-23 module is released. Razbam is working on it but there's no release date yet.
Cool graphics 👍
DCS can look very nice under right circumstances, thanks for commenting!
At the time of this conflict the South African Defense Force were to be respected. Unfortunately not so today
For sure I mean - the Chief of the SAAF was DICK LORD - how could they lose!
Lol let me guess your Apartheid military was "the best fighting force in the world"?
@@accountretired9479 try another guess, troll
Keeping longing for the past dummy, you can go to Australia
@@accountretired9479 Actually the old South African military was counted as the second best and most feared force in the world at the time. Calling the old force "Apartheid military" is only diversion. The army fought communist terrorist insurgence and communist states. You must remember that the ANC's umkhonto we sizwe never directly engaged the military or police forces. The ANC was not part of that conflict. They targeted and attacked schools, churches, restaurants and the like. The South African defense force engaged Cuba and Russia with the support of the US. "Apartheid" had nothing to do with that. The cold war and the advancement of communist ideology did.
Showtime112, when are you making a vídeo of the 1987 dogfight, involving Mig-23MLs flown by Alberto Ley Rivas and Juan Carlos Godoy vs Mirage F1s flown by Carlo Gaggiano and Arthur Piercy?
I'm probably gonna wait for the high fidelity MiG-23 to be released by Razbam. Now, we only have an old low-polygon AI MiG-23. It wouldn't look that good.
Nice work❤️
So nice that you managed to find time to watch with your current busy schedule 😁
@@showtime112 don't worry, I will always find time for you cuz I really enjoy your charming voice 😉🥰
Very good historical details. The 1956 conflict between Egypt and Israel, with Britain and France intervening might be worth your attention.
Thanks! That conflict would be very interesting but sadly there aren't enough assets in DCS to do anything from it. We have MiG-15 and Mustang but not much else.
@@showtime112 Ah. I should have thought of that.
? New to dcs ...if you fly same mission you created in mission editor 2\3\4x will you get credit in your log book hrs?
Man, I totally forgot there was a log book in DCS 😁
South Africans got us presidential citation for service in Korean war. Things changed for the them in the coming decades
In many ways, yes.
The Angola-South Africa war cannot be historically assessed without considering a number of factors that influenced the political backdrop in the US; the S. African supportive Reagan era was coming to an end; the then control of the US congress by the Democrats; the increasing power of the congressional black caucus [Its role in sponsoring bills prohibiting loans/investments to South Africa, even by foreign 3rd parties - Europeans, brits & Israeli - with US links] and the eventual transition to a Democratic party led Clinton administration reliant on African-American voters.
These factors would see a tightening of US (and Western) embargoes and sanctions against S. Africa through the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986.
Its introduction was highlighted by being the first time in the 20th century that a US president had a foreign policy veto overridden.
Militarily the then SADF thrived with a bush war ‘pursuit and kill’ strategy where its motorized mobility and air superiority [Caspir APC and Puma helicopter-borne special forces] chased ill-equipped guerrillas across the borders of South West Africa.
By 1986, Angola - exemplified by the Quito campaign, with Soviet-supplied armor, artillery, and aircraft, represented the transition to a different kind of warfare from the 'pursuit and kill' bush war. That of European-style standing armies with attendant casualties. It is no surprise that history records the Quito battle as the biggest conventional battle in Africa since WW2, illustrating at least a near technological equivalence between the warring parties.
This shifting balance markedly in the favour of Angola was notably displayed on the economic front. Increased oil production - from Cabinda outside the conflict area, and prices meant that the Angolan MPLA government - with a compliant Soviet supply of weaponry, could afford an arms race with arms and economic sanctioned South Africa. In fact, unlike Mozambique, Angola ended the war with little discernible debt to the Russians or Cubans.
In turn, Angola purchased advanced MIGs (21 and 23), Shilka, Pechorra, & VOLGA Anti-Aircraft Missile batteries, and P18/19 radar networks while South Africa despite its initial air superiority had to rely on limited numbers of mirage F1's, outdated - 20 year old, mirage III's, SAM vulnerable impalas and buccaneers as well as a domestic arms industry that lacked scale. i.e. it cost significantly more for S. Africa to manufacture arms than for Angola to buy them off the shelf with its increasing oil revenue. So while S. Africa produced some innovative prototype weapons, its inferior ability to manufacture at scale in a manner that could counter Angola's unlimited access to equivalent and counter weapons from Soviet stocks discounted the impact of these weapons.
A bit like Ukraine and Himars, or Hitler with his various wunderwaffe, without manufacturing scale for weapons platforms and munitions, innovative weapons become military dead ends that fail to make a discernable impact on the battlefield. As such much of S. Africa's professed advances in aircraft, radar, air-air missiles, and artillery were dead ends.
The introduction of radar networks and SAM batteries across S. Angola caused casualties in mirages and denied slower flying craft airspace. For example at Quito, at least two mirage F1s (SA's most advanced fighter) were lost to enemy missiles signifying the significant erosion in S. African air dominance.
This and the near technological parity argument was bolstered by the failure despite repeated attempts - dog fights, by the SAAF to down MIG-23s notwithstanding the latter craft’s expanding operational role over the skies of S. Angola.
Contemporary revisionist S. African writers try to excuse this failure by calling such aircraft Cuban MIGs despite the presence of significant squadrons of MIG 23s from that era in the Angolan Air Force inventory to date.
According to Wikipedia - "FAPLA MiG-23s outclassed SAAF Mirage F-1CZ and F-1AZ fighters in terms of power/acceleration, radar/avionics capabilities, and air-to-air weapons. The MiG-23s R-23 and R-60 missiles gave FAPLA pilots the ability to engage SAAF aircraft from most aspects."
Thus the diminishing of the SADF’s ability to control the skies over S. Angola and N. Namibia really marked the turning point in the strategic balance in SW Africa. Importantly curtailing the lightning-fast rapid reaction and UNITA support role of helicopter-borne SADF recce regiments.
The US Reagan administration in turn responded to this deterioration in the balance of airpower by skirting the arms embargo to supply UNITA with 310 units of FIM-92 Stinger missiles between 1986-89, in reality, an assist to S. Africa's war effort and in itself confirming the strategic loss of aircover and dominance.
Thanks for this very elaborate comment. It provides a lot if info for those who want to know more. The subsequent clashes with MiG-23s will be covered once this aircraft is released for DCS.
Should have had boeremusiek playing 😆
P.S. That MiG pilot kakked HARD at @6:43!!!
Probably. But you are kinda limited with royalty free stuff. And to be honest, I have no idea what Boer music sounds like 😁
Show, from Brazil!
South Africa supported Unita, an Angolan Independence movement based on the southern tribe with about 40% of Angolan territory and population.
You're the first foreigner to accurately say the name Namibia correctly 🗿
Really? Doesn't seem so hard to pronounce 😁
Not specific to the video but I'd always wondered have there been reported incidents of jettisoned fuel tanks landing on structures or people? Has anyone ever come across a jettisoned fuel tank on the ground near the site of an aerial conflict? Intersting video, my friend!
Thanks for the comment! Regarding your question, there must have been many cases. In fact, my aunt told me a story from WWII. When she was about ten years old, she saw a fuel tank that was dropped by an American plane. There was still fuel in it so it mush have dropped it because of enemy contact, damage or some malfunction.
82ND AIRBORNE
" Evade his Pursuer..." serious display of training and skill.
And probably, a lot of common sense 😁
Would you consider a video on the time a soviet piloted MiG-15 and an US F-86 flew in-between a hanger over a Chinese airfield?
You mean the story featured in Dogfights? Probably someday. I haven't done any Korean War in a while.
@@showtime112 I dunno if it's in that, I read about in a boom from the 80s. I can try and find the guys name if you want
The South African military’s no joke. A former coworker was in the 52nd EOD Group & they were defusing an IED in Afghanistan. South African troops were their security detail. An American lieutenant walked up to them & started getting shi**y with my buddy. The South Africans said who the f**k are you & told him to get the f**k outta there! 😂😂😂
Yeah, those guys are serious. Don’t mess with the South Africans, in the air or otherwise.
A mate of mine was in Afghanistan, as security, when was your coworker there?
I've never been to SA but my former coworker has. He noticed that they were mostly tall and strong. He is a bit short so he felt like a midget there 😁
@@TheSilmarallion Not 100% sure. He was in Iraq first so that had to be sometime after 2003. Then he was in Afghanistan. I want to say 2009? 2010?
Yes. they were very proffesional and not damaged by the "Apartheid"......even the Recces SF were mixed, not segregated.
@@alejandrocasalegno1657 That's an interesting aspect, didn't know that.
Nice video. Wish for video about Iraqi mirage F1 action in Iran Iraq war.
Your wish might come true soon 😉
Aerges said that they would “…probably do that in the future”, when I asked them about the possibility of an F1EQ.
Which is awesome!
@@rhysgoodman7628 So far, the best we can do is use CE in EQ skin.
@@showtime112 indeed. It does look bloody good in the EQ camouflage though.
ALTHOUGH, I would love it if Aerges added the blue-grey from the F1EQ on the CE.
Migs vs. Mirages. A classic of the late XX century
This MIG-21 dashboard is insane!
If you love switches, you will hardly find a better cockpit 😁
Nice simulation of combat.
Bravo. Tanks so much.Have you ever heard about a SA mirage f1 vs a cuban flogger mig 23 encounter ? The mirage would have been downed...
I THINK there is a tinny error in the mirage skin that emblem on the tail is from no 1 sq which used f1az which had a different looking nose to the cz like the one in the video
Great video as always btw
Not impossible. This skin came with the module and it's supposed to be for the CZ variant but maybe Aerges missed a bit. Thanks for the comment!
Awesome
Thanks for the support!
My grandmother neighbor faught in angola fir the cuban side.
He did repairs on SAMs
Thank you for sharing!
can you do a video about the Dofar rbilion
Possibly but I have to say I don't have a particularly precise knowledge about it. I would have to do some research to see which aircraft types were used.
This was basically a suicide mission for the Cuban pilots. They never stood a chance. They were inexperienced pilots, flying inferior fighters against highly trained, experienced pilots flying superior fighters that were built for dogfighting. They were effectively thrown into the lion's den.
Essentially, yes. The ground command should have never sent them to combat the Mirages.
@Showtime112 The second pilot's surname is pronounced Doo-Pluh-*SEE*. Not Doo-PLESS-iss. (It has French Huguenot origins, hence the silent 's')
Thanks! I thought the name could be French but his first name Johan really didn't fit into that 😁 Sometimes, these names get pronounced a bit differently. over time For example, I recently heard that Claire Chennault pronounced his name with l and t instead of silent.
I don`t imagine any Mirage F1 pilot trading his aircraft by a Mig-21 nor even 23...
Probably not. Although, the 23s caused some challenges for the South African pilots a little later.
Great review, thanks. Matra R.550 Magic Missiles proved to be unreliable junk. Today there are so many good AA missiles to choose from: IRIS, Sidewinder, ASRAAM, MBDA, R-73, PL-10.
Thank you. True, AAMs are way more efficient these days.
Sledeće može biti susret f1 i mig 23. Možeš li mi objasniti anomaliju da su se oficiri Jugoslovenskog ratnog vazduhoplovstva zgražavali mig-a 23 i da nisu imali most između druge i četvrte generacije aviona, usput ako hoćeš mogu ti poslati link emisije gde jedan bivši oficir vojske Srbije priča o preobuci u SSSR-u
Planiram pokriti okršaje MiG-ova 23 sa F1 u Angoli. Iako ću možda ipak pričekati da Razbam izbaci modul MiG-a 23. Sada imamo samo low-polygon AI model. Što se tiče preskoka, činjenica je da 23 nije baš najuspješniji MiG-ov model. Mislim, jest ali uglavnom po broju proizvedenih komada. U odnosu na 21, pokretljivost mu je bila vrlo slaba. Plus veća kompleksnost zbog krila. Ne znam točno koje su verzije Rusi uopće nudili ali često se za izvoz radilo o inferiornoj elektronici tako da dobiješ avion koji kombinira loše strane MiG-a 21 i 23. Pošalji link slobodno (doduše, YT često blokira linkove tako da je moguće da ne prođe)
@@showtime112 czcams.com/video/fihEmPpd0rA/video.html
Does anyone know the story of the mirage pilot that landed his plane after part of his rudder were lost?
Did the SAAF score any kills in Korea? I thought this was their first aerial victory since WWII.
Dick Lord wrote it was Korea but another viewer said its probably not true.
@@showtime112They were in korean war from November 1950 to December 1953. 2 Squadron was attached to the 18th Fighter-Bomber Wing U.S. Air Force for the duration of the war.] Initially flying the P-51 Mustang, the squadron re-equipped with the F-86 Sabre in February 1953. During the war the squadron flew a total of 12,067 sorties, most being dangerous ground attack missions. 74 of the 94 Mustangs and 4 out of the 22 Sabres were lost, along with 33 pilots (14 killed in action, 11 missing in action, 8 pilots killed in accident).
For its actions, the squadron received the Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation, United States Presidential Unit Citation, and numerous other awards and decorations.
@@michaelochoa5531 thanks for contributing!
@@michaelochoa5531 I know the of the South African Air Force's contribution to the UN forces in the Korean War. I was only asking if they scored any air-to-air kills. Thanks for the additional info.
Hello, please simulate the Alborz military operation othet name is "Kaman 99" (Arc 99), I think it is easier to simulate than the H3 operation, thank you
I intend to cover a lot of Iranian Phantom operations once the module is released in DCS. Positive thing about H3 is that this airfield complex is actually available in the Syria map.
@@showtime112 thanks alot
Excellent movie in my opinion.
Glad you liked it!
@@showtime112 I found it very informative and the animations really added to it.
Vladimir Putn was a KGB advisor in Angola
Really? Didn't know that. I only heard about his post in East Germany.
I have a suggestion: Do a video about the Pathankot Airbase Raid by Pakistan Air Force in the Indo-Pakistan war of 1965. More than 10 MiGs of India were destroyed on ground when the Pakistani jets sneaked 40KM inside India.
It was a joint raid by 2 different squadrons on 2 to 3 Airbases of India namely Halwara Airbase, Pathankot Airbase from West Pakistan and one other from East Pakistan.
The strikes on Pathankot and the one on East Pakistan's border were successful but Halwara Airbase strike failed.
I'd be interested in doing the 1965 War. The maim problem is the lack of assets flown in that conflict.
Interesting story what happened during the war with Angola.
I believe so. I was really waiting for the Mirage F1 to appear in DCS so I could cover this.
South African Air Force Mirage F1 pilot interview and gun camera footage: czcams.com/video/H_Er204tbTA/video.html
Quite interesting
What about Mirage III and Mig-23?, not a fair fight...
Depends, a well trained Mirage pilot could shoot down a MiG-23 under right circumstances.
Can't wait for you to cover Iran Iraq war
A video with that topic will be released in near future.
Realistic animation.
Thank you for the comment!
We still have quite a few of these F1s here in South Africa. I saw a static one a few months ago at a local airshow, and our pilots gave it the nickname "vlamgat" (flame hole) because of the big single exhaust afterburner.
EDIT: Around 8:40 you mention it was our first aerial kill since the Korean war, but this is incorrect :) we didn't shoot down any aircraft in Korea only ground attack. I think maybe one pilot of 2 squadron claimed damage on a MiG-15 but it never crashed.
Thanks for your comment! As for the 'first since Korea', I quoted that from the book 'From Fledgling to Eagle' by Brigadier General Dick Lord. He doesn't say which kill in Korea that was and I have to admit I didn't research it but believed what he had written.
@@showtime112 Yeah of course I'm not holding it against you but rather Mr Lord there :) to-date I cannot find any evidence that any of our pilots in 2 squadron in Korea achieved any confirmed air-to-air kill. It's a shame really because the rest of what he writes in the book seems relatively accurate.
@@SelfRaisingWheat SAAF in the Korean War, not a bad topic for a video. I seem to remember that someone made Mustang skins.
@@showtime112 Well I would certainly watch! Professor D.M. Moore has done quite a bit of detailed research into the topic and published some detailed papers on 2 squadron's sorties, maybe it could help?
@@SelfRaisingWheat I'll look it up, thanks for the suggestion!
Little mistake, RSA 1st supported the UNITA against the MPLA during their civil war after the Portuguese left but MPLA won. MPLA gave support to SWAPO after RSA supported UNITA and not the other way round
The intro doesn't really go into cause and effect but in a very simplified way gives an idea who was fighting on what side.
@@showtime112 True...but I think that in the quest for simplicity, the idea seem to be that RSA was reacting to Angolan aggression which very far from the truth
Но ) фраза
из прошлого))
КОНТАКТ МИГи))
Interesting
Thank you for the comment!
the South African air base was in Ondangwa.
Great presentation of forgotten aviation history. Said to hear that heat seekers can will fail you when you really need them. Use the gun(s) if available and go full Israeli if you have to. This is why they train to shoot down with guns as bullet can't be defeated unless you get a dud or a jam. 🎩🎱♠️🎯🏁🇺🇲🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌼🌸🔫👊🍀
Thanks! I can tell you that aiming the guns in F1 is not easy since it lacks any radar assist. Took me some practice :)
@@showtime112 Israeli doctrine is 250 meter ahead of the target 🎯
Better missles would have helped saaf alot but circumstances didnt allow it. Good effort anyway
No doubt, thanks for commenting.
The CIA would drop/pass leaflets stating that the US government would give any pilot, that turned over a Mig, a 3 bedroom house with a pool. Now, the CIA weren't eager to get their hands on an old Mig; however, many commanders grounded the Migs because they didn't trust their pilots. Pretty slick move by the spooks lol.
That's a very effective application of Sun Tzu principles I guess 😁
Lot of inaccuracies but not bad
Such as? If you mean the 'political' part in the beginning, it was never meant to be comprehensive. Only to give a basic idea who was fighting against who, for those who knew little about it.
the Cubans sent 50,000 soldiers to Angola
Mis respetos alos camaradas socialistas cubanos.....poniendo el equilibrio en el mundo
the story is beautiful and interesting, but as you narrate it is based on the comments by the South African pilots, only one side of the story, it would be good if you added how the other side told that story in that situation,
Generally, much more info is available from the South African side (at least as far as I can see). With the second video, there's even an interview on YT given by the SA wingman. But I wouldn't say that no information was given by the Cuban side. There are many details about the pilots and their aircraft.
know this was there with 61 meg grond force .
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for the support!