What's the most efficient way to drive an EV?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2018
- How do I make my EV go further? With all these economy settings in the vehicle it's difficult to know where to start. Is it best to drive with the full power of regenerative brakes or remap the power delivery with an Eco button? What about one pedal driving, that must be the best way of retaining as much battery as possible, right?
What if all these features are just a gimmick? Perhaps we can find a more efficient way?
I have looked at the three most common settings people claim give best efficiency in a Nissan Leaf and share my opinions with you.
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I don't own an EV at the moment, I can see me getting one when it becomes financially viable.
I may not own an EV but I'm well versed in the laws of Physics, I can tell you exactly how to get the the best mileage for the least power consumption.
Aerodynamic drag is the most influential factor regarding power consumption. The drag coefficient of the vehicle plays a part, however the most influential factor is velocity, speed in common parlance. Aerodynamic drag increases with the square of velocity, not good news for those of you who like to drive fast. For a given vehicle, drag is twice as much at 71 MPH as it is at 50 MPH. Power consumption increases exponentially with increasing speed. If you want the best range, drive as slowly as you can bear.
Regenerative braking is horribly inefficient, 25 to 30% at most, so you're far better off looking ahead and anticipating having to slow down, backing off the throttle as early as possible and coasting to the the bottleneck letting the vehicle naturally loose it's momentum, rather than hammering up to it and relying on regen to slow you.
Don't accelerate quickly and particularly avoid accelerating whilst going uphill. If you see a hill ahead, gradually build speed before you get to the bottom of the hill, then gradually loose speed as you're climbing the hill, rather than keeping the power on.
However much you would like it to be different, I guarantee you will NEVER contravene the Laws of Nature.
Andy Woof brilliant. I guess we all know the answer but hope there is a magic button to make it better 😁
Andy Woof Well Watson, I believe the wheel has turned yet again.
Your comment are logical and precise, however, driving a BEV is a change of attitude to that of an ICE vehicle, I’m retired and do a lot of tootling around both my daughters live over an hour away, so driving locally I usually drive in D eco motorways is D with eco off and I find that I’m classified on the Nissan app as a platinum driver, now that’s on annual average I’m 4.2/miles per kWh, now locally I can be upto 4.8miles/kWh even higher and what I do when approaching junctions and lights that are on red I flick it in B eco for regent it might be small but a lot add up, also I don’t use my breaks as much which is another saving.
When I first got the car I drove it like my previous car a Yaris 1.4lt and I was only getting 3.7miles/kWh yes driving style is extremely important the faster we drive the more juice we use in either petrol or electricity motorway driving here in Kent most of the time I’m running with the traffic and it can range between 55-60mph yes there are plenty zooming by at 70+
Your premise that speed plus drag plus friction is correct, but above all driving style as you said driving at 50 as opposed to 70 you double your drag. Just my thoughts on efficiency and experience.
Even if I travel on the starship Enterprise?
I know this is an old comment now. I agree with your comments, but what's the physics behind "not accelerating quickly uphill"?
As you wrote it is mostly about wind resistance and gradually loosing speed than using regen. But physics wise we all learnt in school that building potential energy lifting the car to a higher level and how fast you build it doesn't really affect the energy it takes to do it. So where's the loss? Why is building momentum better at flat than uphill?
Something important - softening the pedal response significantly reduces power spikes under acceleration. High acceleration/power spikes are a leading cause of battery heating, vastly more so than steady delivery of a given power level to simply maintain steady speed (even highway speeds). For local driving and low daily ranges, high acceleration and heat build up is usually no problem, but for a long journey with a couple of DC fast charges, you will want to manage battery heat in your Leaf (especially 2018 Leaf owners). In such cases you should do whatever you can to avoid high acceleration and spikes in power. Steady cruising, even at 70 mph is much more sustainable for battery heat than frequently accelerating rapidly between e.g. 50 and 60 mph. If adjusting pedal response settings and cruise control can help some drivers to make gradual acceleration rather than harsh acceleration, it will massively help to control battery heat. If you can put yourself in chauffeur mode and use your go pedal gently, with more precision, then by all means do that.
max holland great advice, not just for Battery management but for all driving 👍
Your videos are getting better and better! This was really interesting.
Philip Malaby thank you very much 😁👍
Another fantastic video that debunks a lot of ifs and buts...
Thank you so much for clearing this topic up. Absolutely brilliant!!! Keep up the great work.
Awesome! Thanks for video. That's the same conclusion I came to for my 2012 Leaf.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info and for doing the test!
Good morning from Seattle! Great video! Have a wonderful time at the Fully Charged Live at Silverstone. Wish I could be there.
Thanks for doing this.......Ex LEAF driver. 4.1 Miles all the time, eco off, B on in town, off on open roads; I now drive an Ioniq PHEV, too much range anxiety in North Wales. Currently after 1500 miles 127MPG very happy, and no worries I wont get home.
Your videos are literally what gave me the confidence to buy one. I have dreamed of having an EV for years and radioactively thought it would be a long time before it was an option for me. Then after only a few weeks of waiting and watching for the right one, I got my hands on a 2015 SL model with the Bose system and it had 10 bars and 50k miles at a good price. The Nissan dealership certified and it and offered me the ability to buy an 8 year bumper to bumper warranty for it. Man. I love this thing. I love it. I’m in south Florida and there are plenty of charging options around town and at my work, which is 14 miles round trip. Thank you for doing as much as you did the way you did it. It’s perfect.
I’m so glad you are happy and I played a small part in helping you 😁👍
I like how you conducted a real world test. Sometimes that's the only way to know something for sure.
Chris B thank you 👍
You have the best channel, not trying to sell me the EV concept.
I discovered the same thing. ECO mode just make you loose power, well less responsive.
The range say you loose 4 km when turning off ECO.
But you use the same amount of Power to travel up the same hill.
So you get better regen then, down hill. Nope just bad respons.
So in B mode did I discover was the best way to drive.
It's also the closest to my gas car in respons.
But I have an active driving style, so I use alot more like 4,9 km/kWh
Thats 3 miles/kWh.
Thank you so much, I was conflicted with this theory too! Looks like I will be driving fast mode.
Very nice conclusion!
Very very interesting! I have been reading all sorts of conflicting reports recently on what combination is better. When I get my new leaf in July I might just drive it with no optional extras! Money saving might not be significant but extra range is. Good watch, well done.
Great video and awesome analysis. I was thinking of doing something similar for myself but my journey's are not as routine as you so you've saved me some effort. I've often driven with Eco off and B mode on, so please that this is the better of the options. Driving with Eco feels a bit lame because you can get the same soft acceleration without Eco, just by pressing less on the pedal. Driving with B mode is the most enjoyable as it allows me to get a somewhat "one pedal driving" experience. Obviously, when I need to slow down harder, I do need to use the brakes but for expected stops, I can really reduce brake pedal usage.
A couple of weeks ago we picked up a used 2013 Leaf with 29000 miles on it. Our first EV. Love it. I have also been trying all the different settings and kind of settled on D and throwing the Eco on when off the freeways. We live in the Seattle area so a lot of hills and valleys which robs the most power. Great videos btw!
Don't tromp on it and speed where useful . . . coasting downhill ( put it in 'N' ) is very handy to gain speed for the next uphill . . . . . just don't exceed the posted limit by too much . Let your momentum carry you into the next uphill adding power slowly as you slow to the posted limit . . . works well for me / averaging 4.8 + per kw/h . Slowing below the posted limit before cresting the hill helps, but pisses-off the ICE vehicles behind you which are in a bigger hurry to get to the next red stoplight .
Good review cheers
Cheers mate.
Your videos helped me decide to buy a 2017 30Kw/hr Leaf yesterday. I live in SW France now but I recognise your driving routes as I moved here from near Winchester.
It was a revelation driving it. Lovey and smooth, quick enough away from lights (actually as quick as my previous 2 litre Mondeo Auto).
It was from a Nissan dealership. One owner (sold by same dealership). Looked like new inside and drove as tight as a new car. 30K km and a full healthy battery as far as I could tell.
180km shown on the dashboard so a realistic 110 miles I think. Perfect for 90% of what we do, I have loads of Solar panels so it will be mostly "free petrol" apart from airport runs (where there is a handy IKEA in Bordeaux).
I'm not prepared to commit fully to a new (40 grand) EV just yet. The rate of improvement and change is too great right now. In 4 or 5 years I think we'll see a huge improvement in range, in charging time, and in infrastructure. By that time I think we'll have this Leaf as the shopping trolley and a new EV that will 100% replace petrol convenience.
Anyway. good info, presented really well. Thanks.
Brilliant video, puts everything into prospective.
Rob Fuller excellent. Thanks for the comment😁👍
@@EVOpinion all you EV owners and all of the different videos I have seen has helped me make the choice of buying a 40kw Leaf. Ideally the new e-Soul would be ideal but I want a tried and tested reliable EV to start with.
Rob Fuller great news. I love it when the videos help people made a decision to buy an EV 😁👍
I have a Zoe (Q210), i never drive in ECO mode, no fun, real slow pulling up at a roundabout ect. Also the airco or heating hardly work, so i really think this video is spot on how i drive my EV
In my Zoe ZE50, I’m currently using ECO when in town and not once the limit is over 60 (dual carriageway and motorway). I also use the ‘B’ mode as I enjoy the braking I get. I’m getting 4.3m/kWh so I’m quite impressed. It’s smoother to accelerate and I can hold speed limits more easily in ECO mode, which limits the Zoe to 65mph.
about 5% saving might be useful. But I think you are right that a setting which meets tge drivers style and requirements is probably the way to go.
I've been driving with Eco off in B mode for the last two charging cycles and it does seem to work once you've adjusted your right foot. The key seems to be it's easier to get good efficiency of you can keep the momentum you've built up going longer. There's also a little bit of one pedal driving in the older Leafs where you're on throttle but the car produces no power and glides, and slightly less throttle regens a tiny bit. Put the energy information tab on the Carwings screen and get a passenger to help you find the throttle positions!
Very interesting comparison, we have owned a 30kwh Leaf for a few months now and both my wife and I drive with eco off and B mode engaged. For me the major benefit of B mode is not having to use the friction brakes as often, just easing off the throttle and letting the regen slow the car down. We live in a very hilly area and it is amazing when going back to driving our ICE car how often you have to brake and change gear. Driving the Leaf is so much more relaxing and I definitely have a much more chilled driving style in the Leaf.
Spot on. ( Mercedes B250E ) Friends ask me : do you leave the aircon turned off? Nope. If I can't drive it with lights, wipers, zircon, heated seats as the need arises then, to me, I'm not seeing the real economy figure. Two suggestions : 1. Financial improvement - If you are paying £7.85 a month for a swipe card, rather than charge at home all the time are you getting at least 60kwhr in public charging a month, preferably more? For me, two visits a week to 22kw charger does this. 2. Sailing. The cheapest energy is energy you don't use, rather than use and regenerate. If you do the same routes often and your car has a 'least regen' mode then you'll know where it's safe to let the car 'sail'. This is easy on the B250E as the Regen levels are set by left and right paddles on the steering wheel. ( if not in auto, where it uses front facing radar ) and finally, our real world savings on fuel alone have been £2000 a year. If you run two cars at present, getting one affordable EV is a no-brainer.
Hi, recently got a facelift e-golf. We drive a mix of motorway, dual carriageway and motorway. Tend to keep the fast roads around 60, with overtaking up around 70. Don’t tend to use the economy or regen buttons on the fast roads. However, we like the engine brake effect if Level 1 regen (e-golf option) on bendy country roads.however, the great revelation for me was using B mode when in the city and on significant stop/start traffic. We found at the end of the trip we equalled or exceeded the proposed range the system indicated at the start. But amazingly,especially for someone who is not a fan f busy cities or bumper to bumper heavy traffic, I now look forward to getting stuck in and clicking the B mode. It’s so much more relaxing and - - it seems - helps with range.
I just ordered a 2015 Nissan Leaf with 11 bars from Carvana. Going to take it for 7 day trial run and see how it goes. Car sticker prices are up as we know but so are gas prices! The car is 15,000 US dollars but I think it is still worth it. I do not have long commutes so I am optimistic it will do what I ask. Thanks for the helpful tutorial! I have the OB2 in the mail and will be doing a health check when the car arrives using this video. Cheers!
Excellent video as always ! I've had my Leaf for nearly 12 weeks so still learning! I have the 40KWH - I test drove the Leaf mk1 and the ECO on the new Leaf is like having ECO off on the mk1. The Epedal makes a big difference, more regen than B alone. I tend to use Epedal around town, D and ECO on motorways or when I need the coasting and B with ECO down hills but speed required. I'm getting 4.4-4.6 miles per KW if I believe the car computer - its like any other car - its how you drive them ! ECO on 99% of the time as this is fast enough acceleration for me, no ECO is really quick.
Anthony Palmer people seem to be getting better miles per kWh from the new Leaf and you seem to have it sussed. Thank you for your comment 😁👍
EV Opinion It's an ongoing learning curve. It's my first EV so I can't compare to the 24 and 30.
Ryan I have a Leaf 24Kwh and have tried all the various options and have settled on Eco button and drive in D mode and the vehicle for the use I have had it for am getting 4.20 miles per KWh I know this because I have kept a spread sheet and log all charges and miles at time of charge so I have a quick check of the distance since last charge and ongoing performance and regards to the B mode if the road and style of driving requires auto retired for bendy roads or traffic it very easy to flick the mode control in to the option and likewise with the Eco switch it so natural for a swift or long overtake to push it off and after the pass is done push it back on. Works for me but each to their own. Thanks for your video .
Dave Giles I guess that was my end conclusion. Don’t worry too much as there isn’t really a great saving to be made. Just drive in the mode that suits you best and enjoy the car😁👍
Just one thought though. I also have a Leaf 24 and have found that driving in B without Eco in normal town and rural twisties has shown the best figures. (And that is quite apart from making the car much more pleasant to drive than in Eco which gives the turgid feel you describe.) But on motorways, try switching to D and coasting to lose speed - by better anticipation. That gives me better figures on open road driving with light traffic. On your test, I suspect that using a combination of B for town and D for motorway use would have tipped you into 4.2 quite easily.
Hitstirrer thanks. I’ll give it a go 😁👍
That is exactly what I do too and have found it to be the best result too.
Hitstirrer Hi I have a Leaf Tekna 30kW and I’ve found over this summer on motorways that I’ve been getting 4.7miles per kWh however I have been using cruise control and I’ve been on around town Beco and motorway Deco with cruise control I also use M20 and M25 and M23 my speed is generally at 63 to 65 however on All motorways have traffic control 50mph and M25 has congestion control 70, 60, 50, 40, then back up to 70mph then back down.
I'm getting a Leaf soon and my commute consists of mainly dual carriageways and roundabouts so will be interesting to try this too; might try adjusting the drive corner to corner and see what that does to the economy.
I watched a vieeo the other day where the driver was doing all of the stuff that we've been "educated'2 to do e.g. very smooth acceleration, very light braking, high levels of anticipation etc. He was getting over 6 miles per Kw/h. Very impressive but I wouldn't want to be driving behind him.
I watched this back in 2018, and again today. Now I wonder if this still stands with improved systems. Car manufacturers learn and improve their products.
Would be interesting to get an update on it.
So glad you done this video Ryan 👍 I Iike B mode with Eco off. My wife doesn’t like B mode at all. She doesn’t like regen. Baffles me why she feels this way 🙄
Mark Gaudie lots of things baffle me about my wife too😳
My wife loves to boot our Leaf from a standing start and really enjoys the acceleration!
D mode still has regen. but it’s not as strong.
I have had my 24kwh Leaf for over 2 yrs now and in the last couple of months have changed from Eco with B on to just B and find the car more pleasant to drive. Don't drive on the motorway much so my average speed will be less than yours so can get about 4.8 miles per kwh in summer. Think I saw a VLOG a while ago saying take B and Eco off when driving over 60 for long periods as this gives more free wheeling which is even better. Will be looking to buy a Kona in a year or two as they promise more miles per kwh. Thanks for the interesting videos.
Tom Robson thank you. Looks like your experiences are similar to mine. I used to think having eco off was unpleasant but having persevered with it I now really enjoy it 👍
Another factor to think about is how much each setting impacts the brakes and other mechanics of the car, which may increase maintenance costs.
Great video! Thanks for sharing that info. With my ioniq I find zero regen is giving me the best results. I don’t know if this is possible with the leaf but if you can somehow coast in neutral, I’m sure the miles per kWh will increase.
Agreed, we find that with our ioniq especially on motorway trips. You can coast in neutral with the leaf - and it wont let you accidentally put it into reverse or park either! It just beeps angrily at you (don't ask how I know that....)
This is great info. I’m gonna try driving without eco and in b mode to see what I can get. I’m averaging 3.4-3.9 in eco/D. But the range estimator won’t give you a higher estimate than it does. And I’m in a 2017 Leaf sv
I have a 2017 Leaf. I don't know about efficiency, I just love driving in B mode with Eco off. It's such an effortless way to drive, hardly ever using the brakes.
Another good video. I get the point about the ECO button. If it flattens the response, you will be tempted, even subconsciously, to press the accelerator just that little bit more. I read somewhere that the Honda Jazz engine has something called an Atkinson cycle aimed at economy and the initial throttle response on the automatic is a bit flat at times. I sometimes use the paddles to change down and get some extra oomph thereby defeating the whole object. When I get my first EV I'll be ignoring any ECO button!
Michael OWEN and saving loads of money on fuel 😁👍
My 2012 Leaf has no "B" mode. I have always used the eco mode, and I average 4.6 miles per KWH. However, my average speed is generally around 38 mph. Since my battery only has a range of about 47 miles in the coldest part of the year, and my commute is 41 miles round trip. I need every mile I can squeeze from the battery. That means no highway speeds, and just enough heat to defrost the windshields. Interesting video.
I've tested a few EVs now and in all cases, using the eco mode or equivalent automatic system has resulted in worse efficiency, when trying to be efficient than simply having full power and manually being efficient. Having modes to automatically be efficient simply makes you lazy and not drive efficiently in my opinion, it makes you FEEL like you're being efficient.
Improving your anticipation and observation brings best results as well as a gentle foot.
Enjoying your range of videos btw
The EV Puzzle thank you and I think you’re right. There is no substitute for planning ahead and good accelerator sense 😁👍
The EV Puzzle, yes, you’re right. I think people don’t understand regen, and think the more energy they capture with regen, the more efficient it is, but of course that isn’t true. They don’t understand the regen efficiency comes only from replacing mechanical braking with regen, but not when replacing coast down with regen.
Don't tromp on it and speed where useful . . . coasting downhill ( put it in 'N' ) is very handy to gain speed for the next uphill . . . . . just don't exceed the posted limit by too much . Let your momentum carry you into the next uphill adding power slowly as you slow to the posted limit . . . works well for me / averaging 4.8 + per kw/h . Slowing below the posted limit before cresting the hill helps, but pisses-off the ICE vehicles behind you which are in a bigger hurry to get to the next red stoplight .
Hi, great video , have you tried comparing with the eco-and the B (brake regen) off ? Just wondering how that would work as I always thought the B was only useful downhills
Wife and I own 24Kw Leafs. She goes up and down a 500 foot high hill most days, drives the “burn & coast” mode and gets 4.3 miles per. I drive round trip of about 45 miles on back roads (no highways) and get 4.8 miles per. We both use eco and D mode. I find only insignificant changes when using B mode (better low speed regen only) and slightly fewer miles per charge when not using eco. Your mileage may vary! :-)
I love watching your video's! Very informative and "to the point".
I am collecting my first electric car this afternoon (14 plate Leaf) and my first drive will be a 50 mile run home. It's funny that I was happy that the M6 is slowed to 50 MPH due to roadworks!
Anyway... My question... What about using the D and B modes for "normal" driving and the Eco when up to speed and cruising on the motorway? Anyone tried that?
Keep up the good work! If you are ever in the NW, call in for a brew! :D
Chris Malcomson thank you for the offer👍. I haven’t tried your suggestion. Let us know if you try it 😁👍
Hello good video, and I agree with your conclusions. I have a 30kw Leaf and using for the most part D mode with no eco,
and in combination with B mode no eco when the slope of the road allows good regen or needing to brake, I am getting 4.9 to 5.1
miles per Kw. Driving speed around 50mph mostly with some 65mph. Terrain Dorset Hampshire mostly so no mountains.
Tim Palmer that’s great stats. You must live close to me 😁👍
Would be nice if you did a control group too with D mode (Eco on/off) as D mode still had regen.
Thanks for the Video and save me lots of measurements 😀 Got the leaf a couple of days and wonder if eco made sense at all. Eco button is in this case rather for driving without strong acceleration which you also can implement by gentle usage of the throttle.
For deciding between B or D I would say it depends if it's more useful to let the car roll free to the next slowdown or stop. For driving longer downhill and keeping the speed and driving dynamics like with motobrake in ice, the B makes more sense.
matneu27 I suppose it’s like any car. You adapt to the condition around you. Thanks for the comment 👍
DO NOT trust the average consumption in the Leaf. I drove a stretch multiple times (testing steady speed vs following terrain). Each trip was around 20 km. All other numbers (Leafspy and % shown in Leaf-display) showed that steady speed was around 20-30% more efficient, but the "average consumption" showed slightly higher consumption with steady speed.
Regen is so efficient (around 90%), so it's actually better to hold the speed constant down a hill with (hard) regen rather than to build up speed by coasting or using low regen, thus waisting energy on higher windresistance.
I've found no benefit with ECO as for... well... eco. But I can find a way to explain that some people will see it more efficient.
I've had my 24-Leaf for 3+ years, "always" used B. D will, in my case and most likely generally, be the most efficient, because you'll be "forced" to slow down earlier before junctions etc, if your goal is not to touch the brakepedal of course. In B-mode you will tend to wait longer until you release the watt-pedal, because the regen slowes down so much.
So why then would D be better than B if regen is that efficient? Well, because steady speed is the best. With B the speed will variate more because of the late braking. Average speed also might be a little higher, but most important is the steady speed.
I have not tested what is best of "hard" or slow acceleration, but I find no reason to believe that a slow acc is better.
So what about ECO then.. It MIGHT be better in some cases because it CAN "force" the driver to have a more steady speed.
In the manual it says that in ECO the heater will be altered not to use as much power. Well, I've tested it a few times and found no difference at all. To save on power to the heater, the only thing that works is to turn it off, lower temperature or set the fanspeed to a slower level.
To be honest your experience is from using the Accerlator by the sounds of things. But you are better off relying on the Cruise control and incrementally increasing it's speed than the pedal if you wish to use B. The Cruise control will stop aggressive regen as the car knows the speed you wish to achieve. But I grant you in heavy traffic you will be better off using the pedal than cruise control and switching over to D for that kind of environment.
I agree Rayner and i have only;y been driving two weeks and know that much.
@@Cowcow211 The speed limiter is better actually.
@@Cowcow211 CC isn't usable on twisty (icy) roads, in town with roundabouts, traffic etc. I use it as much as possible though but I don't believe I used it in those tests.
Increasing/lowering speed is also much easier with accelerator than CC, especially in B as CC will throw on a lot of regen to lower speed while my very well trained right foot can coast down.
I do most of my driving in B mode and with Eco turned off. I use Eco in slippery conditions to help avoid wheelspin.
Thanks Ryan for another great video, raising some interesting points. I'm sure you were right regarding your own car, but I question whether you can extrapolate those findings to other vehicles. Our i3 Rex does massively greater mileage in Eco-Pro mode, though I agree that driving in Comfort mode (really a sport mode) it is a more fun drive. However, most of our driving is in Urban and sub-urban environments where frankly Comfort (Sport mode) is unlikely to be safe or practical. However you raised some very valid questions and in some circumstances, counterintuitive results will be obtained. Thanks again.
Stephen Shannon thank you for sharing your observations. I guess all cars are different so it’s great people are explaining their settings and the benefits they find 😁👍
Very interesting video thank you.
Our MG gives better efficiency in eco but this may be as sub consciously we change our driving style more than we think we do.
We only use Eco when it is sensible so we are not the slowest on the road and happy to use sport for a bit more fun. We get an overall avg of 4.2 miles per kWh.
If you include minor other costs rather than just electricity then the replacement of brake pads and discs needs to be included if reducing the regen effect.
We keep our car in regen 3 which also allows a more relaxed (lazy) one pedal driving.
I find our energy efficiency makes a lot (3.7-4.4m/kwh lately)
Given the weather hasn't changed that much I've got to assume it's mainly the different routes we take. There are quite a few hills over here and that seems to make quite a difference.
FYI, we drive with both Eco and B on although I switch to D for motorway/dual carriage. Also we often limit our mortorway speeds to 60mph yet go up to 70 if we're a bit more pressed for time.
I love my e-pedal!
Just stumbled on this video having bought a second hand leaf. Really interesting, as I’ve been driving it in eco mode on the assumption it was more efficient I agree though it’s a nicer nippier experience with it off. I wonder though if eco also limits the aircon / heater power use ? So in eco mode they decrease the range by a lesser amount (I know it’s best to avoid using it if it’s possible).
Possibly not an issue with pure EV. But in a hybrid it makes lots of difference as you wouldn't need to use petrol as much
Other side of the pond here. 2015 Leaf I get 4.7 in ECO mode (35-65MPH gentle terrain). I stay that way, because I like the more aggressive Regen braking. I had been getting 5.2 on a mostly flat, 20mile RT commute. Terrain and climate does affect the numbers. Hot days and the numbers go down (and I did not use the AC)
I suspect a lot depends on where you live, l live in the Lake District, where there are a lot of big hills. Using the B mode on long steep descents does help.
Great episode BMW i3 on eco pro plus mode for 90% of my journeys
Simon Roe cheers 😁👍
Had mine 2mos now. Drive it without eco or regen just keep the speed within the limit and anticipate the road ahead. Get 4mkw without too much effort. I did the maths and realised it was going to be a lot of effort to change my driving style for minimal gains. Enjoy you EV!
I have found that switching off eco mode gives a far more enjoyable driving experience and really makes very little difference to my percentages. I have also noticed there's a difference between the amount of regen when eco is on or off, especially in D mode; D mode without eco is great for rolling down hills, it has become second nature for me to switch between D and B to slow down a bit when rolling down a long hill.
Keep up the great videos!
Nicholas Wintle thank you 😁👍
same here Nicholas
Not true - I drove to London. Twice and the difference was huge.
Very interesting, what about driving in D with ECO off? How much difference would that make?
Reducing speed and acceleration, even slightly, will give you much more savings than changing mode.
I currently get 5 m/kw, in standard mode. dual carriageway / local roads.
EV Planet wow! Good work 👍
i don't have a leaf (but am possibly about to pick up a used 2015), but i drive a Chevy Volt. there is no 'eco' mode but i drive in the 'B' equivalent (called 'L' for low) all the time. i can't say i've tested much comparison between D and L, but where i notice the HUGE difference is in using cruise control. the car computer is so much better at keeping a constant speed than my foot is that whenever it can get a scrap of regen, it does, and i'm not wasting energy with repeated small accelerations to counter 'accidental' regen because of my inefficient foot control. so yeah, cruise control for the massive win.
Another useful video with great informative. I don't think I've ever turned off my Eco button. I tend to always use it in B mode. Sadly I'm one of these 55mph drives on motorways, in order to maximize my range. I have to say that my driving style has changed since driving my leaf. I no longer speed around. For me it's a blessing to see a 50mph sign on the motorway. Nissan say using eco mode helps preserve the battery. Don't know how true this is.
Vampire Echidna that is the greatest thing about an EV. It’s so pleasant to drive and such a nice place to be you just stay calm and relaxed so speed never seems to matter 👍
EV Opinion it truly is. I drive an hour to and from work per day. I never feel stressed even when I do hit traffic jams. Unlike the manual diesel car, the pressing of the clutch every few meters in a jam. It's most unpleasant and stressful.
Totally agree, I just want to drive it.
one item that has only briefly been mentioned is the cost of electricity. i was with ecotricity but the price was quite high, so i switched to "greenenergy" and went on the "tide" tariff. now i charge overnight and it costs only 4.85 pence per unit, so i can fully charge, (128miles) for under £1-50. using one of those cheap plug in timers its a doddle , coming on at 11pm and going off at 7pm. (i am of course using the granny lead.
Just use the cars inbuilt timer/scheduler. No need to buy a timer plug?
I learned years ago working in the avionics industry on a "cruise control" system for airliners that it is very difficult to be successful in business by being incrementally more efficient. The milage on my old Prius is starting to fade and just putting up with spending more at the pump is way, way cheaper than any other option. It is all paid off, doesn't cost anything to maintain and is impossible to justify buying a Chevy EV (Bolt), but I've got one on order anyway. I dislike gas stations, worked in electronics my whole life and have been waiting 30 years for the car companies to build something I can really feel good about. This will be the first new car I've ever purchased! The Bolt (with a "B") is a stupid name (they should have called it the Chev-EV), it looks just like any other stupid modern streamlined sedan, and I'm sure I'll get frustrated with all the complex electronics - but I will love charging it up at home, zipping around traffic with no care about economy, and being the first (in my whole town I think) to have a pure EV. In ten years, it will be the norm - mark my words. Already, I'm constantly frustrated in traffic following old gas hogs around going slow because they are doing what (little) they can to save money at the old gas pump. In ten years, all these gas hog, big , loud pickups etc are going to be a pariah in our towns and communities as the EV revolution takes hold and quick, fun, efficient, quiet EV's take over. The beauty of electric drive is that you don't have to worry about "eco" mode - you can blast off and drive like you want and still have way better economy and reliability than the old ICE technology. Just this week I helped a friend whose big ranch pickup got stranded going up a busy hill because his fuel line got clogged somehow. EV - no fuel system, no carburetor, no exhaust, no noise, no oil, no brake wear, no smog system, virtually no dealer servicing. God I love it!
Greg Collins - if you fit in the seats nicely, you’re going to like the Bolt EV. Easy to get in and out of, and lots of utility with the hatchback. Such a smooth operator in one pedal mode, and the regen is so strong, it’s amazing that a car can put that much energy in the reverse direction!
Greg Collins it sounds like you have found the perfect car. Good luck and see if you can convert a few more in your town 😁👍
I play with the settings on my Outlander PHEV based on the road I'm using, it has a coast setting which I'm not sure the Leaf has, which is ideal for long downhill sections of the motorway section of my commute but totally unsuitable for the country road or town section, where regen braking is a better option. The Phev doesn't have the aerodynamic efficiency of the Leaf though, the Leaf may benefit more from a coast setting.
Thanks for an informative video. I would be interesting to see a similar comparison by someone who drives a Chevy Bolt or a Tesla.
Richard Molby me too. 👍
Bolt EV - because it’s significantly less aero than Leaf, seems to deliver a large difference in efficiency depending on your speed. Driving at less than freeway or motorway speeds (45 to 60 mph), it can approach if not exceed 5 mi/kWh - seemingly very efficient. Strictly freeway at 65 to 70 mph will cause the efficiency to drop to nearly 4 mi/kWh - still pretty good, but about a 20% difference, which seems like a lot for not that much speed difference. Imagine what 80 mph would do. It’s surprising the efficiency - and hence the range implications - can vary that much - but it does demonstrate that aero, like tire choice plays a big role in EV design. Aero in a true sedan body style demonstrates how the Hyundai Ioniq EV is capable of such great efficiency (nearly 6 mi/kWh at more than 60 mph).
Hi there
Great video. I tried the non eco driving on my 30 Kw leaf this morning and I got 4.2 kw and it doesn't make it feel restricted. I was normally getting 4.0 Kw.
Keep up the good work
Neil Hubbard excellent news 😁👍
Short answer, yes you are using more power when in B mode. The most common type of electric motor (not just in EVs, but in general) is a pair of permanent-magnets with an electrical coil wound around the sides of the magnets. When you're using regenerative braking, the motor controller puts a certain amount of power to the coils around the magnet(s), intensifying the magnetic field. The amount of power (and whether one or both magnets are used) varies by which level you've selected. The more brake force you want regenerative braking to create, the more power goes to the wire around the magnet. With that being said, B mode is intended to allow you to slow down without using your friction brakes; as a means of controlling your vehicle. It is *not* to help you save power. The fact that it generates electricity that can charge the battery is just a happy side-effect. For the vast majority of people, I'd say leave it (B mode) off outside the city; the exception being when you're coming to an exit ramp on the highway, and need to slow down gradually. One word of caution, though; give the brake pedal a couple taps, just enough to turn on your brake lights, so you don't get rear-ended. Most of the EVs that I've come across (here in the US) don't activate the brake lights when their "B mode" equivalent regenerative braking kicks in.
In my 30kWh Leaf i average around 4miles per kWh.But mainly find its temperature that has main effect,i never use Eco and switch between B and D modes while driving.Example when travelling from Cadnam to Wimborne via B roads i use D mode so vehicle rolls better on downhill and lifting off throttle but flick into B for slowing down,in the villages and when scrubbing speed coming into corners at speed,i use B in town and B on A31 when going thru St Leonards across all the roundabouts but into D after Avon country park Rbout all the way to M27 and beyond,,i find the hills on the main A31 are main killers for range and normally cruise at a speed limiter setting of 68mph,i dont use cruise control.if im likely to be braking a lot i use B as i prefer the feel of that plus footbrake as opposed to D plus footbrake.Your videos are very good now and are very enjoyable,i think ive passed you a couple times(do you wave to other Leafs?) im in a Bronze Tekna.
Chris Barrow that all makes sense and I know those roads well! I do always wave so sorry if Ive missed you. 👋
EV Opinion yes you did wave,im normally a bit of an at the last minute kind of waver waiting to see if the oncoming Leaf waves first LOL.
For me it's more of a longevity thing than a saving each month. Say the battery last 10 000 miles. Then the 1000mile extra per year is all of a sudden a full extra year with the car before needing a battery change :)
Regen mode have better potential to improve range at high speed, at lower speed the air resistance is a smaller factor and regen efficiency may cause more loss than just rolling.
I searched the comment section for one point. Thought someone mentioned it, but no-one did. A fact is that when you drive with minimal acceleration, you wont go hard on the battery, which means the battery will likely be better conditioned in the long run compared if you floor it or drive it hard. So technically in the long run, you will save money wont you?
I always drive my leaf 2013 tekna with B + ECO, based on this thinking pattern. Just reached 71k km and still 12/12 bars.
Calty720 a very good point. Thanks for highlighting it 👍
That was very good, I drive an I-Pace and you get the comments that the I-Pace isn’t very efficient, well I get about 2 1/2 to 3 miles per KWh but then it’s very powerful, you can’t expect to get 50 mpg out of a powerful sports car, so why do people expect to get 4 miles per KWh out of an I-Pace
I have the base model 24kwh Leaf, so no B mode. My choice is Eco or plain old D. I find that Eco returns better mileage per charge if driving in very stop start urban conditions, but otherwise is almost irrelevant. Because D mode coasts more then Eco, which gives a little more regen, if roads are clear and there aren't many traffic lights then I find D actually better. As D mode is much more enjoyable to use, I just keep it in D and let the battery get a bit lower before recharging. I am only using public charging, as Nissan (here in Japan) gave me 4 years free charging when I recently bought the car and there are three Nissan dealerships near my home, so it makes no sense to me to crimp the pleasure of driving the car just to eke out a bit more range (especially as my daily mileage is not high). I get an average of 7.8 km/kwh (about 4.9 miles/kwh), I think slightly more than you get in the UK because of the relatively slow nature of Japan's roads.
Does anyone know if there is a video comparison like this but for non-plu in hybrids?
Had my leaf a month, tried all modes. Really didn't like Eco it felt like driving in treacle. My favourite is B mode and appears to be about the same as eco mode. Averaging about 4.1 Mi/kWh, I do like the electricity usage in the App, almost re genning 25%. Even though it costs almost a penny a mile I've found myself driving more conservatively.
We have two Renault Zoe's, a 22 and 41Kwh. They're great cars and certainly in the case of the 41Kwh do absolutely everything you could possibly need a vehicle to do ( last week I drove one down to Bordeaux and back! ) but before we purchased I test drove the Hyundai Ioniq, which whilst not quite having the range of the 41Kwh Zoe, was far more efficient. There's probably a raft of reasons why this was the case ( new tech, aerodynamics etc ) but I think the ability to " glide " without resistance was a major one as I think the amount you gain in regen is lost by having to constantly use the energy to maintain momentum. You can replicate this by flicking it into neutral but it is a bit of faff.
I am looking to buy my first ev. I'm thinking 2016 Nissan leaf or 2016 Kia Soul. The more I look..the more unsure I become. Any thoughts, opinions would be greatly appreciated. I'm in Canada.. so winter driving is a consideration. I have to make a decision soon.
Are you leaving out an option? What about using neutral ?
There are lots of small hills where I live.
If I am going down a hill with no stop at the bottom and the road then goes up another hill then I shift into neutral at the top of the hill and let it coast and build up speed and then let that speed carry me up part of the next hill - sometimes it is even enough to carry me to the top of the next hill. I can only do this when there is not other traffic in the way.
I get more range when I do that. It seems to me coasting is more efficient that using regen.
I get 5.0 - 6.0 miles per kw but mostly average 30 mph - no interstate driving.
I also drive well below the speed limit if no other cars are around.
finally I tried driving the other day with eco off and it is like driving a rocket ship , I'll try with just b mode see if I get better than 5m kwh :)
Thank you so much for all your videos. You’ve converted me and i pick up my 30kwh 2016 tenka this weekend. Just getting my head round all the cards, apps and companies. Very confusing
Lord L brilliant news and a great choice. Download the Ecotricity app for all rapids at service stations and then look at your local area for what’s best. Lots of people use Polar.
EV Opinion thank you for the help. I’ve joined polar plus. I wanted to asked I picked up a 30kwh 2016 tekna leaf today. I am waiting for Chargemaster to fit me a tethered lead. I have currently the plug into mains cable. I went to use a pod system round the corner which is 7kwh. However it doesn’t have a lead to attach to my car? Should I be investing in one and if so what type please? Thank you
Lord L it’s a choice for you depending if you think you’ll use it? I use mine occasionally as shopping centres and businesses often have untethered points. They aren’t cheap but personally I would buy one. You need a type one to type two lead 😁👍
EV Opinion thank you again for the advice. I ordered a tethered connection for my home like yourself. I’ve just brought a 32amp lead for those untethered pods. I’m getting there slowly, not saved money yet!
Lord L you will 😁👍
What's your best way to charge multiple items in your leaf like cellphones etc???
Use regen and don’t use cruise. Accelerate down hills and keep white dots to 2 unLess absolutely necessary for hills.
I haven't seen anyone mentioning this in the comments I have read but sorry if I'm repeating the info here.
I'm not sure about the Nissan Leaf, but many other electric véhicules have regen when softly pressing the brake pedal. By example, the Chevy Bolt in america and Hyundai Kona have these features. I have a Chevy Bolt and the regen out of the braking system (not physical friction braking) is very high. I've seen up to 48 Kw regen with this method.
So let's take any car with this feature, this would mean that in standard D mode, you could benefit from slow deceleration when releasing the accelerator pedal to ensure a good coasting less energy loss on a highway, and braking softly when anticipating a stop, or starting to brake earlier would get you a lot of regen and wouldn't use the physical braking system at all. This could simply be the most efficient way, for now, in many situations.
But I admit that in the city when constantly having to stop and go, the B mode might just be the most suitable. One pedal driving is a lazy cozy funny way of driving. Love it.
Using regen braking not only saves by generating power but uses the brake pads less which also saves money.
Just tried turning eco off, and e-pedal off on my 2017 40 x (sv). usual combo of motorway at 105kph, and city driving, with the usual range of weather and wind conditions.
Started test at 92% state of charge, its now down to 15%.
Dash reading was fluctuating between 7.1 - 7.2 km/kwh with both on, and has remained EXACTLY THE SAME, (which it has been showing for over 600km's since last reset).
Update - just finished 2nd near full charge down to 15%, driving cycle, and display now fluctuates between 7.0 and 7.1km/kwh, so have say now that eco features must do something, but the amount is extremely small.
So it really makes very little difference at all, for my driving, but will admit that now i have had it turned off 3-400 kms, i do like the faster instant response for a lot less pedal input. turning it back on, for a short time, makes car feel like the brakes are on.
Going to turn back on anyway now, for next few charges, and see if it eventually climbs back to 7.1 - 7.2
Note - i like stoplight drag races, and use full throttle off the line a lot, but when i actually try driving more moderately, it still remains the same, best ever in the 3500 kms owning it, was 7.3km/kwh. (ok sure, you can get higher instant readings if you reset while coasting, but that is not relevant. Unless you check over at least a full charge in same conditions, you will likely be fooling yourself).
Way i see it, it takes x amount of stored energy to get up to speed, regardless of whether you do it quickly, or slowly (watch consumption reading as you slowly accelerate, and you will see its using a good bit for a long time, as opposed to a lot, for a short time).
Imo, the 2 driving styles pretty much balance out overall, and eco mode and e-pedal do very little if anything, to help range. But i will go back to using them anyway, as i like one foot driving, and the slower acceleration at moderate pedal pressure(unless you fully boot it, in which case it makes zero difference), - i also use cruise constantly (pro pilot).
ps - but i assume if you also love last minute braking, the result would be different, as that would waste a lot of energy compared to just coasting down to a stop, or using regen options.
I dislike how overly optimistic dash display is, with 92.5% battery health, dash often claims 280+ range at full charge, but never yet got more than 200 when down to 10% (so that's really only 6km's /kwh, not the 7.3 dash said) calc = 40kw x 92.5%soh = 37. 37 usable , minus the 10% remaining, = 33 used. 200 kms divided by 33 = 6.06km/kwh
Forget eco just let your granny drive you, along recline the seat and watch CZcams clips on your tablet perfect way to get the most out of the leaf she won't notice the dullness in the pedal or the limited acceleration because it's the way they drive anyway ;) great video mate
If you can coast efficiently in B (or L(ow) mode in my case), it should be equally as efficient as driving in D (it requires a bit more foot pressure/muscle use = fatigue, which is why I avoid it).
I have no eco mode, but I do have a Sport mode, and I do not use it anymore. As you alluded, it only "changes" the accelerator, to require more or less pedal travel to achieve a certain power output. Put the pedal all the way down in either mode, and you SHOULD achieve full power regardless.
2015 Spark EV - 5.2mi/kwh lifetime average efficiency (and rising).
thelondonbroiler wow! That’s some nifty eco driving 😁👍
My experience (30Kw Leaf) is that outside air temperature (colder air, denser, therefore, more resistive and tail/headwinds) affect efficiency on the same repeated long journey (80 miles) more than anything else. I use the cruise control at 66mph, eco setting on and regenerative braking mode 'B'. I'm measuring efficiency in terms of range left at the end of each journey. Any attempt to measure efficiency if you can't standardize the air temperature and wind speed/direction seems to me to be doomed to failure!
We only do 30 miles per week, but on Saturdays & Sundays usually 90 mile each day , Im guessing 30kwh is the most suited battery for us?
Getting 4.2-4.3 miles per kWh in this weather at the moment. Wet, and about 3-4 degrees C.
Not trying too hard. Car in normal, D and B mode depending on scenario
I personally use B mode to safe the brakes 🙂
The £35 saving over 2 years is irrelevant but ~5 more miles per charge is significant as I often gets home with < 10 miles.
Paul Feakins very true and would have made a real difference to me a couple of times 😬
I know the % most of my usual journeys take:
Crawley to Brighton 31%
Brighton to Crawley 32%
Crawley to parents' 15%
Parents' to Crawley 18%
Total: 96%
So one day I did all 4 journeys back to back and I did indeed arrive home with 4%!
@@PaulFeakins Yoyu know your car and yourdriving style very well then, I'd be interested to see what difference the temperature makes to these figures... I have the 30kWh Leaf, and I'm new to this at the moment so I'm eager to try different things.
Suggesting regular D mode no ECO... Doing more coasting. I find B mode just slows the car down unnecessarily. Only use B when absolutely needed.
When you are decelerating from highway speed, use regen down to 35 or so mph. as coasting is in efficient at high speed where drag is highest. Likewise at lower speed you can conserve your energy better by keeping it kinetic, also regen is less efficient at low speed. Same rules apply as any other type of car, drive as you have no brakes, never coming to a full stop to avoid high draw accelerations.
I just did this today..Always drove in eco, turned it off, turned on heat and cruise and I got better mileage and miles added at 55mph and driving with B. So, think I will stay with eco off unless Im driving in town at 35 or lower.
Doesn’t B mode basically just apply the regenerative braking when you release the “gas” pedal?
Yes. It makes it more pronounced thereby putting more energy back into the battery.