2 Common Violin Shoulder Rest Problems (Any Model)
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 05. 2012
- ATTENTION EVERYONE: I have continued to learn about this topic, and I have to say, I now would reverse the order in which you seek your perfect set-up: START with the chinrest and FINISH with the shoulder rest, and here's why:
I have come to respect the importance of keeping the violin as close to the collar bone as possible. For me, that is automatic because I have a short neck, but for people with a long necks, this is important.
If you start with a shoulder rest first, you might choose a shoulder rest that lifts the violin too high off your collar bone.
Instead, START by finding a chinrest that fills most of the space between your jaw and the violin, with the violin resting on your collarbone. Find a chinrest that fits the contour of your jaw (the best you can....you can always fine tune it later).
THEN...when you have that space mostly filled, you find a shoulder rest that compliments the chinrest, gives you stability and security.
SORRY for the change...but we all continue to learn, don't we?
www.RedDesertViolin.com/online... This video discusses 2 common problems with shoulder rests. 1--getting the violin horizontal, 2--preventing slippage by using anchors.
If you like the information given here, come get more at: www.RedDesertViolin.com
Don’t just play, play well!
Join my email list for practice tips and other great stuff:
www.reddesertviolin.com/email-...
Please Subscribe (red button on your right) so you don’t miss out!
Find out about all my online offerings at these links:
• Suzuki Book 1 for total violin beginners:
www.RedDesertViolin.com/online...
• Suzuki Book 2 for beginning to intermediate violin students: www.RedDesertViolin.com/suzuki...
• Suzuki Book 3 for students ready to transition into mature musicians:
www.reddesertviolin.com/suzuki...
• New! Suzuki Book 4 is the whole reason you started to play in the first place! It is a rite of passage to violin masterpieces
www.reddesertviolin.com/suzuki...
• Wohlfahrt Opus 45 Etudes home study for students really wanting to boost their technique
www.reddesertviolin.com/wohlfa...
• Intermediate Fiddle Class for those who can play, but need help learning fiddle styles: www.reddesertviolin.com/online...
• Beginners fiddle coming soon!
• Plus: vibrato, tune kits, and much more! Come visit and explore!
www.RedDesertViolin.com - Hudba
I am a violinist named Oscar and I approve of your Tshirt
Coocie monsta
@@seemagupta5282 coochie monsta
🤨😶
Thank you so much! I just upped my practice for three hours a day, and couldn’t even make it through without severe pain. I talked to so many “experts” that didn’t have a clue. This helped tremendously! So well explained. Saved the day.
Nicole, I'm glad this helped. Please keep me posted. I've learned ALOT since making this video.....and there are some awesome NEWLY INVENTED chinrests (The Wave, and The Kreddle).....which are solving problems for people with long necks. Do not settle for pain!
Well, now you're making me blush! Haha. I think you are the first person EVER to be this enraptured by a discussion of shoulder rests! Your passion is contagious. Thank you for the compliment!
Thanks for your confidence, kmoney! That dedication, especially to the exercises that are harder to do, will make all the difference. Keep it up!
Whenever I have an issue with my violin, I always find myself coming back to your videos. Your videos are SOOOOO helpful! Thank you again for this video!
I found that the 'rubbery-ish' shelf liner is GREAT for slippage. It's the kind that looks lacey and I have the kind from Rubbermaid. I just happened to find some at the back of a drawer couldn't decide whether or not to throw it away. As a daughter of the great depression generation, I couldn't throw away a perfectly good roll of liner. About 6 months later, after fighting my fiddle to wanting to throw it away, I remembered that sticky liner. It is sticky but that a bad word, it's grippy. I love it, it's cheap, give it a try.
I LOVE that idea! Yes, and they make it in all different textures....some is course and spongey, some is fine and lacey. I think the fine lacey stuff is grippiest. Thanks Amy!
Hi! You are a very good teacher. Thanks for this beautiful and generous work.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you as I'm just learning how to play the violin at age 57. I found this video very very helpful and I appreciate that you took the time in detail.
good for you! i just started today at the age of 29.:)) Long live the brave ones! :D
I started at 36 and I thought I'm too old to learn it, but your comment is truly encouraging!
Hopefully you are still forging ahead, Mary! Let me know if you have questions. Hopefully you've found a good teacher!
You are all still so young........you will have a long career of violin playing ahead of you! Keep it UP!
Hallelujah! 29 is still just a spring chicken! Keep it going!
You are a genius! I finally learnt how to manage this matter, which I didn't learn from my teacher at all!
+Marco Pilati SO glad it helped! Yes, unless you have had the struggle personally, it's hard to help others. Now you can help anyone else who needs it! Keep it up!
Thanks so much indeed
This is the best on shoulder and chin rests. I finally acheive a comfortable shoulder rest set up. Thanks.
I am so happy it helped!
the enthusiam and perfection of each lesson given by u ma'am is completely extraordinary
+akash agarwal Thanks, Akash! I appreciate your comment!
For me you're a complete treasure. This issue, more than any other, has kept me from starting to play.
I've ordered the Impressionist. I'll have to wait for a trip to a big city violin shop to check out shoulder rests and the Stuber and other "jaw" rests.
Thank you.
WONDERFUL! There are SO many new inventions out there to help us play comfortably! Keep searching and you will find it!
Wow. You are a wonderful communicator. Efficient, clear. No distractions in voice or background visuals. I am going to bookmark you. Thanks.
Thanks John! Glad you enjoyed it.
isn't her (for lack of a better term) stage presence outstanding, love her videos,
v irgil schmoe shucks
Bravo. An excellent demonstration.
This is the very best of all the shoulder rest videos I've been watching. Thank you!
Wow, thank you!
This was the best review of shoulder and chin rests that I have seen! The detail is excellent, especially the point about laying the violin on the table and pushing on the chin rest, showing how easily the violin should respond and balance. EXCELLENT! Can't wait to see your other videos!
Awesome, thank you!
Amazing! As an experienced student who finally took the time to improve posture, this is one of the best videos for fixing shoulder rest placement and losing that grip on the neck. I'd strongly recommend this to beginners and even somewhat experienced people trying to have correct habits. Thank you!!
You're very welcome! You sound like a great student! Keep up the great work!
Omg thankyou so much! This is the best shoulder rest usage videos I have seen..much love!
So glad you found it helpful, Manu..
You done good here. Thanks for a specific, non-generic, useful video.
+Dwight Shackelford Thanks for watching and for your comment, Dwight. Much appreciated!
Awesome, the science behind the balance point hold, and table or wall hold comparison is just mind blowing insight. thank you.
Im starting to learn the violin (with no prior music experience) and while researching the how to's, i came across your videos. Thank you for explaining things the way you do. They've helped me get a grasp on how to start.
+Joe C Wonderful, Joe C! There are tons of great online resources. Another of my favorites is Todd Ehle's channel. GREAT stuff. If you want videos in a logical, organized, order with support from me, you can also sign up for my Suzuki Book 1 class. (link is in the description box above) But either way, glad the youtube vids are helpful to you!
There may be a age gap between us, but the sincerity and gift of your knowledge from years of experience has made me fall in love with you! lol Thanks for the videos!
Wow. You make is so easy to understand. I’m sharing your name with my son and grandson. What a great teacher. Thank you!
Fantastic. Glad it helped!
Thank you, a great help indeed. Altered the tilt and no slippage at all. Keep up the good work.
GREAT! Glad to hear it!
This video is pure gold. ✨
Yep, slippage and squirtage! LOL Glad it helped!
I couldn't resist. It's a link to my childhood! ;-)
very explicitly explain the shoulder rest. I like it very much
Glad it was helpful! Thanks.
Very helpful video, thanks.
Thank you for posting this video. It really helped me set up comfort zone with my instrument.
Fantastic! I have lots of new videos recently showing some new chinrests, and a detailed video about the Bon Musica shoulder rest.
TY for the tips. I just started at age 63 and have a Yale graduate instructor. I've also have done Luthier work and have been bitten by the violin bug.
That violin bug is a GOOD THING! It's one of those positive addictions! I wish you many happy years playing this beautiful instrument! (some day, I want to learn luthier skills too)
Awesome video! Very helpful for me as a beginner who took the shoulder rest off and had no idea how to get it back on properly. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You're a great teacher!!
Thanks for the feedback. I'm so glad it helped!
Yes! Many taller people have great success with the Bon Musica, because their arms are also long enough to overcome the tendency of the Bon Musica to "lock" the violin in place. Also, broad shoulders are easier to play with NO shoulder rest, although I don't recommend that, you might try it. My very tall, very professional stand partner uses those old cheap velvet "Resonance" rests, but he doesn't love it, it's the least bad option he has found. Good luck! (also tall chin rests are helpful)
You are so very good at teaching violin theory.. Thank you
Thanks for that, Randy, and thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for that helpful information. Chuck
Thank you so much! I'm just learning and now realize I definitely don't have the right chin rest. Good info!
Hi Marci, that's a big step to realize WHAT the problem is! Now you can begin to solve it! If you have questions, I can try to help. But also, I want to point you to my new hero, Gary Frisch at www.chinrests.com. He is the chinrest whisperer. You can get help from him too!
I'm a senior and beginner. Watching various videos etc, not one mentioned about the tilt on the rest. I stayed with no rest as no matter how much I tried with the rest it just did not fit well, Did exactly what you demonstrated with hook, tilt, and VIOLA it fits. Will use the rest now and consider the chin rest you mentioned. Thank you so much for clear precise demonstrations.
I"m SO HAPPY to read this, Quigley. Thanks for chiming in. Keep up the good work, and let me know if you have other questions!
Excellent, clear instructions. Thank you!
You are most welcome. Thank YOU!
Thank you so, so much for this video, I was falling into despair and this really helped me to sort out my should rest and positioning issues!!
I'm SO glad. Yes, violin throws stumbling blocks in our way that can get very frustrating.....but once you make it past a barrier, it feels so good! Keep it up!
I actually like the Bon Musica because it addresses the problem of the violin slipping off the shoulder, or falling to the right. I owned one for awhile, but it kept me locked TOO rigidly in place, and I need to adjust the violin to the right for the G string, and left for the other strings. But if I were taller than 5'2", I'd LOVE it. One option is to put grippy things on a KUN or regular shoulder rest to prevent "slippage". Hair scrunchies or rubber bands work great!
Your advice and expertise on You tube is second to none and I really appreciate the information you uoload especially for people like myself who are self taught.
Best wishes from Manchester, UK
Now I'm off to practice!😀
Glad to help! Practice is the most important element for success on violin!
Thank you for sharing this it really helped me out a lot.
I"m so glad! Good luck to you!
Nice to hear from an actual Bon Musica user! The hook is awesome. It didn't work for me, because I'm so darned short, I have to change position of my violin for the G string. (yes, I said G string again), and the Bon Music kept the violin locked in place. But for normal height people, its really great!
great as always video and such good info
thank you so much
i am still working on those exerceses and some are tuff to do
but i will not give up cause i know what you say works bc i trust you
Thank u for this. Especially the advice on starting with shoulder rest first!
Ugh. LurklingX.....you have just made me realize that I need to tweak this video. I have learned more since making it. I started with shoulder rest in my quest, but since then, I have come to respect the importance of keeping the violin as close to the collar bone as possible. So for people with a long neck......if you start with a shoulder rest first, you might choose a shoulder rest that lifts the violin too high off your collar bone.
Instead, here is the better advice, and I apologize that this video is out of date:
START by finding a chinrest that fills most of the space between your jaw and the violin, with the violin resting on your collarbone. Find a chinrest that fits the contour of your jaw (the best you can....you can always fine tune it later).
THEN...when you have that space mostly filled, you find a shoulder rest that compliments the chinrest, gives you stability and security.
SORRY for the change, and thank you for pointing that out.
Red Desert Violin Totes agree with all u said there as an update. My research lead me there. Chinrest first! For contour and height. Getting a professional fitting in a violin shop is ideal, especially for a beginner, but also if they have chinrests in stock.
We did start with shoulder rest, got violin in a good position, kept feet low, then tested chin rests and saw which felt ok on jaw AND didn’t make me feel i had to clamp down to secure violin. One felt good except for me feeling like i was gritting my teeth a bit, clenching. The other took that feeling away.
Yeah I think just make an update vid! I still appreciated the info in this one.
Thank you so much! Darling kiddos bought me a student violin to begin learning on and I am trying to learn what I can on my own.
Jennifer, that is so sweet. The kiddos must have known you have a love for violin! I hope your violin is good quality so that it won't fight against you. (some violins are very hard to learn on)
If you decide to invest more in your learning, a few private lessons could really help. But also (I don't wanna sound salesy), but my online lessons are affordable, flexible, and very effective. www.RedDesertViolin.com. BEST OF LUCK to you!
Thank you so much, this video was so helpful.
I'm so glad! Thanks!
Thanks so much for comprehensive info on shoulder rests. I have a niggling problem with mine and you have given me great tips to help sort it. Much appreciated. Best regards, Georgina (Ireland)
Hi Georgina, I hope this gives you the info you need. If it doesn't, feel free to email me (through my website www.reddesertviolin.com) or post here. I have LOTS of ideas about shoulder rests and chinrests!
This video helped me... SO MUCH. I had both of these problems you talked about, slippage from the shoulder rest and neck pain from "table or wall" principle. I was having to press my chin down so hard to keep my violin up and on my shoulder that I was getting really bad neck pain and losing the desire to keep trying. I was so frustrated trying to solve the issue, trying anything and everything from any resource I could get my hands on, but nothing anyone suggested ever explained what I was doing wrong, why I was unable to anchor my violin as effortlessly as others made it look.
I was nearly ready to give up trying to practice the violin because I thought my neck was too long (silly I know LOL), what people say about beginning violin as an adult is impossible, or something. But then I found your video and you compared how easy it was to raise the scroll when the violin was horizontal to how difficult it was vertical on a wall. IMMEDIATELY I knew my problem and ran to my violin added rubber bands to my shoulder rest and tried holding it like it was on a table. Like you said, my natural head-weight was enough to keep the instrument upright, no pressure needed. My neck hasn't hurt sense nor has my violin slipped. You are an amateur musician's savior. THANK YOU
I am SOOOOO happy to hear you say all this. I have learned SO MUCH since I made this video, and just know this: pain is totally unnecessary on violin. If something hurts, it can be solved and fixed. Keep up the good work, and let me know if you have any questions. I'm slow to respond, but I do respond!
Thank you very much. Great video and really informative. I've never had a properly fitted shoulder/chin rest combo and I've been playing for 14 years! My new violin (a yamaha sv130) has a built in shoulder and chin rest which can't be replaced. I'm going to try your tips re. the impressionist and the scrunchies. Thanks so much!
Thank you!very simple and right to the point
Glad it helped!
thank you so much. I have very broad shoulders and a very short neck (bodybuilder) yet I've been playing stringed instruments for over 40 years. I actually picked up on the vibrato technique quicker than I have (or actually haven't) figured out how to get my violin to STAY put
How are you doing on the shoulder rest hung, Tommy? Let me know. I can help you dial it in.
@@RedDesertViolin ~ Lara, I bought some real expensive rests, and then tried without.... I now have the sponge held with two rubber bands. Another HUGE factor was that I also went through a number of chinrests and pads. Now I have the very slim and low side-chin rest and things are going much better. I don't hold the violin straight out to the side like I had originally planned. I now hold the violin in the crux of my thumb and forefinger, but it just rests. I can shift easily. I will be posting the "Shannon Walz" very soon as i feel I have it nearly mastered. I didn't want to wait for a year or two to "attempt" to learn vibrato. I actually just anchored the violin under my chin and pushed the scroll into the couch. Unorthodox, I know, but I didn't give up until I got it. I've been playing far too long to think that I wasn't ready to learn proper vibrato. So...no 'real' shoulder rest... and a side chin rest and I'm pretty happy. I anchor the violin, but no pushing with my jaw bone.... and then I saw quite a few old-timey fiddle players holding the fiddle in their laps.... obviously shifting is out of the question as is Portamento. A little Glissando and basically one position is NOT going to cut it for me. I wish I could work with a good teacher. I've been through 3 already. They are off-put because I am a music teacher with a degree in music theory, so they are trying to hard to find something wrong and are intimidated because my ear is already developed... so... a good teacher is definitely in order. One who knows music theory and can help an advanced musician as a beginning violinist... and I am not bragging, but I am moving forward very quickly. I believe anyone who has been playing stringed instruments there whole lives should move forward a little faster than most. After all, it is just another piece of wood with strings... even though it is definitely the most sensitive to error.
Thank you so much, I learn a lot from you. ☺️
Thanks for watching, Stella!
Thanks so much for this helpful video.
So glad to have helped!
Sure! Good luck to you.
Awesome video...very informative and clear
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful!
Thank you, Ma'am!
Thank you, very helpful!
This info was soooo helpful to me asa beginner fiddler. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Hope you can get it dialed in! Good luck!
Your question is not easily answered in a brief comment. I invite you to come to my blog where I have a Q&A section, searchable by keywords....I have had long discussions with people about shoulder and chin rest. However, basically, you want to make sure your chin rest isn't gouging you, and that it allows you to balance your violin WITHOUT squeezing with your neck. It should just cradle your jaw and stay put. If it hurts, mark the spot that causes pain, and look for a chin rest that might
Great Video, thanks !
You have helped me make the most of my Kun shoulder rest
Awesome. Glad I could help!
I will try again, the first time I did that when I had to stop playing to attend school the site of the perfect position shifted unpredictably. Maybe now I'll find it again.
Thank you so much Lora
Hope it helps. It's a pain searching for the right chin and shoulder rest....but it's worth the effort when you finally get it!
You're a lifesaver!!
Very happy to help!
Excellent physics lesson for the common fiddler. Your videos keep on showing up on my CZcams feed-good because it reminds me to keep improving the fit of my instrument. I often played with the neck of my shirt hooked to the foot of my Bon Musica to keep it from sliding away from my head. That doesn’t work with all my shirts, so I made a loop of 2 inch elastic (found in my sewing box). I have the loop around my neck and around both feet of the shoulder rest.
Thank you.
Paddlepower888, I LOVE that you are resourceful and willing to "rig something up". That is a great way to start: find something ANYTHING that works.....and then work backwards from there to find the most elegant solution. TIP: I am highly suspicious that your chinrest is a big part of the problem. When the violin "squirts" away, it is the fault of both your chinrest and shoulder rest. If you have a long neck, check out my video on the Kreddle or The Wave. If you are average, check out my video about STUBER chinrests. Keep up the quest! You'll get there! (and I want a pic of your jimmy-rigging!)
@@RedDesertViolin I gave up on the elastic AND the shoulder rest and devised a new thing and made a video yesterday (that’s hard work!): czcams.com/video/m8FX7ZfV4IM/video.html
You’ll see the benefits and how to make one. 😊
@@RedDesertViolin much thanks for showing me the Wave (pun intended) and the Kreddle.
Thank you so much, love your video, regards from Spain
Hi Franscisco! Nice to meet you!
muchisimas gracias por tus videos!!!
Eres muy bienvenido! Gracias por ver.
I used a strad pad years ago. If you rely on "the hook" for balance and support, this will reduce your feeling of security. (but not all people rely on that hook, so those who don't need the hook are fine) The purpose of the strad pad is to add cushion and reduce the sore spot on the neck. I think there are much better ways to eliminate the sore spot. 1) find the right chin rest that doesn't gouge 2) "The Impressionist" will create a custom fit on any chin rest 3) moleskin is comfy
I have been playing for about 30 years!
very helpful information, thanks a lot.
Hope it helped! Shoulder rests can be tricky....
Excellent video. I have two Kuns. Good stuff.
Very interesting. Thanks
so useful, thank u 🌹
your tips are great. thanks for all your work. I've experimented with Kun, wolf and now the Bon Musica i got about two weeks ago. It is great for those long neck folks, not for me. short neck and dou, I did get it to work by putting on the shortest chin rest i could find.
wow,,It's great!!!thnk u
Thank you. I've been holding my violin wrong for years and it gave me tendon problems..
I hope your tendon problem will heal up, and that you can still enjoy many years of playing in comfort! Good luck!
In that case, you might want to consider rigging up a Kun or Mach One with grippy material to prevent slippage while still allowing you to shift the violin to different angles for different strings. (you may not need to do this) Or, consider making the "hook" on the Bon Musica into a gentle hook, allowing for movement when needed. Good luck!
Thank you!
🎻
You are welcome!
cool, cool, used good examples I could not quote any personally, however, made sense. I believe using common sense daily helps quite a bit honestly. tThank you for sharing young lady. God bless.
you are great, thank you!
Thank you for watching! I hope I've been helpful!
Very useful video, thank you. I'm having hard time playing without shoulder rest (it's definitely possible though) and I feel like without it I just don't progress as quickly as I could because my shoulder and neck are getting tired very quickly. Found KUN classic in my local store, will give it a go :)
Thank you so much and i love love your shirt
LOL.....a fellow Oscar fan!
Thank you!!!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching! Good luck!
I like the Everest. THey are very similar to the Kun, except they are more "silicone" jelly-like on the pad, and it's very comfy. I don't think the swivel function is as "swively" as the Kun, but they are good.
Thank you for helpful video! I have two cheap violins: Chinese with higher style chin rest, which i can play without shoulder rest and another used Czech with lower style chin rest , which is not good to play even with Wolf shoulder rest. I ordered cheap few euros Kun style shoulder rest and higher chin rest, same style as which comes with Chinese fiddle. Greetings from Finland!
Great points
Hope it helps!
Getting the fulcrum thing was critical for removing tension. I need need lower rests like the vlm diamond. The Kun gives me too much leverage such that the violin lifts off the collar bone. With the vlm, collar bone contact is maintained all the time, as if playing without a rest. This video contains all the key points. Very experienced teacher.
Interesting feedback. Thank you.
QUESTION: Do you have a prominent collarbone? (I like to have recomendations for people with prominent collarbones. So far, my only recommendation is the Wolf Secundo. But if the Diamond is good too, I'll add it to my suggestions for pokey collarbone people)
@@RedDesertViolin yes, in fact I do have a prominent collarbone, typical for a lean/skinny built guy. Looking at the back of the violin with the violin positioned uprightl, I place the vlm at an angle as much as possible (with the right side up and left side down, so far this suits me the best. Most people place it more or less horizontal. Hope it helps.
I agree with you, the Stuber chinrest is the best. I played all my youth with shoulder rest but one day (15 years ago) I've thrown it in the bin and I found my happyness...but it is a different way to play...anyway brilliant video. I was a pupil of Szeryng and one day he old to a pupil who had a big shoulder rest: " get rid of all this orthopedy..."
Are you saying you don't play with a chinrest? (or did you mean shoulder rest?) Anyway, I have HEARD of that story about Szeryng.....and also Zukerman! I'm sorry....but some body types absolutely require them!
@@RedDesertViolin NO, I play with chinrest of course and I agree that the chinrest model (Stuber) mentioned in the video is the best expecially for those who don't use shoulder rest. I have a long neck, I'm thin, but I play without shoulder rest...is not about body types, but of technique, playing without shoulder rest is a different technique, not so easy to master but very rewarding. But I never tell my pupils to play without, is personal and what is important is that you feel comfortable while playing
thank you for helping me figure out why I was gripping the neck to hard.
Oh yeah, if your shoulder rest is set wrong, the left hand cannot relax. Glad you got it figured out!
Thank you.
My advice is to either "rig" your new rest so the violin is more level to the ground, or try buying a different one. Wolf Secondo is really versatile, but my favorite is the Kun. I personally use a Mach One, but I don't think it's quite as versatile, and it's very expensive. (Kun is pretty close for 1/3 the price)
Thanks!
Thank you for your trust!
I promise not to mislead you! --L
hi, my shoulder rest swivels like yours, but when i adjust it then put it on ly shoulder it just bends back to where it was before
ur the best 👍🏽
You are soooooohelpful thank you
Very helpful, I have problems violin with slipping forward
Yes, so check into maybe a lower shoulder rest? If it's too high, it can "pop" out. Or check into "grippy" items like rubber bands that can help it grip your shirt. Or, check into a chin rest that can "hook" you under your jaw....like my Stuber. (You can only buy REAL Stubers from Gary Frisch at www.chinrests.com, but a very similar chinrest is the EDU, and those are widely available)
I have a Stowemaster, and although it at least gives me the freedom of choice compared to a "regular" pronged shoulder rest I go crazy and obsessive over the millimetres I have to consider in order to find the right positioning. Just wanted to throw it out there.
Ah, thanks. I'm going to TRY to get some good videos posted this month! (also working on some AWESOME content for my other channel, RedDesertFiddle. I've got something major planned for that channel for this month!
love the grouch tee ;)
YeSSSS more on the table, less on the wall !!! Thank you !
Yes, Ady. I just discovered that my "table" analogy confused a couple students. The E string side will still go on your chest.....the violin doesn't sit CENTERED on top of your shoulder....like with the button in line with the seam on your shirt....that would be WAY too far up. But we need enough on our shoulder so that our head can balance the violi. I just want to make that clear.