How the Greco-Persian Wars changed the way Athenians drank their wine | Curator's Corner S8 Ep4
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2023
- The Greco-Persian wars are some of the most famous battles in history. The 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. The Greek phalanx at Marathon. The naval victory at Salamis. The end result? Athenian domination of the eastern Mediterranean, and the end of Persian aspirations to control Greece. But the failed invasion attempt by Persia wasn't entirely unsuccessful. While they didn't politically conquer Greece, culturally they were far more successful.
Join curator Jamie Fraser as he walks you through the Persian way of drinking wine with an Achaemenid rhyton, and how this very eastern way of drinking made it's way into the Athenian symposium (albeit in a different physical form).
Luxury and power: Persia to Greece
4 May 2023 - 13 Aug 2023
BOOK TICKETS: bit.ly/3p5EgYU
Supported by
American Friends of the British Museum
BullionVault
CONTENT WARNING:
Contains one most verile, manly, strapping, young servant.
#curatorscorner #greece #persia
That Irving Finkle cameo was pure joy 🤣🤣🤣
Upstaged by the master
I mean he's got experience. He probably used to pour wine for these guys when he was a kid
Hilarious
@@imintheraindripdripdrophis younger image appeared in the tile mosaics under “virile, manly, young and strapping”
Fascinating history, excellent speaker. Demos cretos people power, this should be more widely-known.
Irv Finkel played the part of manservant with the greatest display of manliness and virility that I have ever seen.
I died. Irving is a national bloody treasure.
As if we don't see him he is present by tone and humor!, So, playing the servant , a new time he killed Us! Love those series by BM, unique in the World, and I m french🤗🙋
That guy is great, we need more of him
In he bounded. 😂❤
Read the description 😉
How can you send comments from the grave?
How can you mistake Irving Finkle of anything but youngest most virile?! He is amazing!
Thank you so much Jeremy for the amazingly educational session 🥰🥰
That strapping serving boy, keep an eye on him, he seems wise beyond his years. I've seen him rooting around the treasure rooms, playing board games when he should be working, and poking pointy sticks into mud. He's too smart and charismatic for his own good. A trouble maker and rabble rouser if ever I saw one.
There are many irresponsible youths in the palace these days.
4:52
What a strapping young lad xD
This is like if Monty Python became an archeological education show and I love it. Crying from laughing
I could have just looked at those two vessels and thought, "Wow, those are impressive. Great craftsmanship," and gone about my day. I appreciate Jamie Fraser explaining the historical context of the objects and what they can tell us about the cultures they were made in. This is why we have curators like this.
And yes, Irving Finkel's cameo appearance is a perfect example of why I love British humor.
Note that both these vessels are designed so that the user cannot put them down until the wine has been entirely consumed. Also please note that in at least this case the volume of the bowl standing in for the Persian royal cup seems to be less than that the serving device. The inevitable result will be the Persian king will be sitting there with a partially filled device in his right hand and a full bowl of wine in his left. Does the king drink and refill his bowl? Does he serve those sitting beside him? If he slips up after a couple of bowls of wine, does wine run all over the table? And we are told that, at that time, people enjoyed their meals while reclining on couches. So 1) reclining on one's left elbow, 2) holding the cup in the left hand, 3) the dispenser in the right hand and 4) bringing the bowl to the lips and actually drinking must have be quite a trick.
I think the wine goes straight into his mouth without the second bowl. That seems like what would be done by someone who uses a drinking cup that can't be set down until you've drunk all your wine.
it would be the role of the king's cupbearer, not the king, to aim the wine and to keep it from being poisoned
@@rabbitsforyang8273 Yes, I agree. And the King's cupbearer would be serving first the King, and then the next-in-line-to-be-specially honoured dignitary. Whereas the Greek vessel may be more one-person (unless you do like the Scandinavians, whose drinking-horns went from person to person until empty).
I love old Persia cultures and his arts ❤️😘💯.
ahahahaha, irving's cameo was perfect, but this was a very interesting curator's corner aside from that, it's very interesting to think how an object could influence a society and change it, and naturally it's a very interesting story.
also it's very interesting knowing that griphons existed already in the 450 b.c. , it would be interesting to see a series on mythological animals and artifacts associated to them.
No, it's to think how a society could influence an object and remake it, by turning it upside down as it were.
Im a Chinese, and it is fascinating to me listening to James' telling of these two objects. Thank you James Fraser, I am so going to see this exhibit
Personally, think luxury is being so respected at the British Museum that Irving Finkle is your wine servant. Also, luxury is drinking at work and no one says a word.
A fantastic episode ( although I don't ever recall one which was not interesting). As a Persian I always thought that we've had so much in common with the Greeks even though historically we were enemies. I never thought I would see Irving Finkle in a Ganymede role!
Looking forward to the new exhibit, Persia to Greece.
I'm Persian and love the video
The wine spouting out of the chest made me think of how blood might flow if an animal were sacrificed. Was that part of the iconography of these objects? Were they intended to evoke ritual connotations?
But that’s not a sacrificial animal such as a ram or a lamb. That’s a griffin. They’re semi-divine creatures.
wonderful storytelling - with Irving Finkle as the icing on the cake! 🙂
Thanks Jamie, I thoroughly enjoyed your talk/explanation. I studied Ancient History for 'A' level many moons ago, so was attracted to this topic. Sadly, we won't be able to visit the Museum while this is on, but if I ever get to the Museum, I will look for these wonderful items and remember your talk:-) Currently I'd be a good match for the 'most virile young servant'....Best wishes, Ruth in Brum.
I love this demonstration so much, I don't think I've ever fully seen a rhyton in action like that (with a surprise Finkle appearance, no less). Placing the objects in their social context, and in their comparative context, giving a sense of the transfer and transformation of ideas and values (especially that particularly enduring western phobia of eastern "decadence"), and makes them so much more meaningful than just interesting art objects on display. I live for any chance to see what can be sort of reverse-engineered of Achaemenid history by deconstructing Greek sources, I would love to see this exhibit, truly regret being on the wrong side of the Atlantic.
Terrific video, as usual. And the special guest appearance by the indomitable Dr. Finkel was tremendous. 😂
Yay Prof Finkel!
I can't recall being so completely absorbed by this sort of presentation before. Really well done, thank you!
Good choice having Irving Finkle being the strapping virile one :D This was a fascinating video. Thank you Jamie Fraser and all involved.
I don't know if anyone's commented on this, but I must say, I really appreciated how this particular presenter repeats his most important points so that they really stick in the mind and you know how it all fits together! And of course the practical presentation is also great.
I'm almost certain that the Athenian drinking vessel represents an Eagle, most likely a Golden Eagle. The beak is too large for a falcon or a hawk, and the only vulture species in the Mediterranean region with a feathered head is the Lammergeier (also known as the Bearded Vulture), which is extremely distinctive and looks nothing like the artefact. Loved the Dr Irving Finkel cameo.
And the Golden Eagle is an avatar of Zeus - here, the hooded figure almost seen at the end of the symposium in the empty rhyton.
@Nnnoon If you knew what species you meant, then I could look into it, but without that info, I just have no idea what you're talking about. That description doesn't seem to match any Eurasian Hawk species I know of... but I admit I'm just an interested amateur and not a real expert. If you're talking about some really obscure species, then it's still more likely that the drinking vessel represents a Golden Eagle, as they're one of the the largest avian predators in much of Eurasia and are a well-known species throughout their range.
This is pure genius! What a way to educate us! Laughing and learning - love it!
Really fascinating analysis of history that goes deeper than what's written. Bravo!
How fun it must be to have Irving Finkle as a coworker!!!
Omg! You two were hilarious! Ivring played it perfectly! Love you Mr. Finkle!
The lovely Irving Finkel! Great addition to this video.
Excellent! Thank you very much. ❤🎉
As a Persian I find this discussion to be fascinating. Thanks for sharing
This was a really fantastic video! Some of the parallels and the differences between the two objects are quite striking at first glance already, but delving further reveals so much more not just about then, but about the times and the cultures overall. Really great work
Irving has never looked so strapping. 😂
i always get happy when you guys upload!! ready to learn something new today as well. Loved the humorous and fun way you explained this! Oh, and the cameo of Mr. Finkle was absolutely delightful!✨
@01:35 "... self-declared nemesis...." The Persian threat wasn't something the Hellenes just dreamed up.
Fascinating video! The beauty and detail of those two artifacts are amazing, as are the talent and imagination of the artists who created them. And I loved the cameo by the wonderful Dr. Irving Finkel. He's marvelous!
This was so fantastic! Thank you!
This was wildly fascinating and extremely well-done!
This was a lovely piece, thanks for all the hard work here.
Also just loved the whole video and especially the demonstration!
Learned something new. Thank you for this.
That is some fantastic workmanship. The Persian wine rhyton was exquisite
I've grown to enjoy this channel very much. This channel never disappoints. ❤
That. This was amazing. thank you.
Excellent vibes, ty
the Irving is great
The Irving is indeed great!
Great work Jamie!
Marvelous - thank you!
Clicked on this while having my evening wine. Perfect timing! I love learning how ancient cultures enjoyed the same mundane things we enjoy today but in such interesting and dramatic ways.
Brilliant, thank you
thank you for the video
WHAT a presentation! Amazing!
Brilliant Video!
Loved the finest bowl you could find in the canteen and the awesome performance of both Jamie and Irving! hahahah this made my day
Great insight and the Irving Finkel servant gig was superb!
I love curators’ corners!
Absolutely fascinating. I've never heard or seen these objects before so I've learnt a lot. The explanation was tremendous. Thank you Jamie
Fascinating. The objects in Jamie's hands really come to life and tell their tales. Having been to the exhibition, I really appreciate the depth of information he managed to fit in a few minutes. I hope we can see more of you in future, Jamie.
what a terrific teaching model.thank-you.
Very interesting with humor! I remember Irving about how greek medicine was considering the Levant one. I've never seen a democracy, ceramic or silver, this is always elite's luxury. The Anatolian Rython reminds me those found in Thracian's treasures. As I'm living in South East Bulgaria.
Very cool! That bird cup, in particular, is amazing!
Super cool video!
fun learning
love this
Very informative
A brilliant interpretation, James.
That was a very well presentation. Probably the most captivating historical story telling I’ve seen. Done give this man a documentary to direct!
This is the deepest, art history style response Ive heard for why there's novelty drinking cups lol.
Super!
What a dope department to curate!
these are the juicy details about history that I love the most! I want a bird mug now.
This was so awesome to watch to
It was kind of you to to give them credit.
ok, far too busy right now - trying to find time to watch all this wonderful new content - was already enjoying immensely, thank you Jamie - before the young strapping servant bounded in... all my love to always wonderful Irving Finkle 💖💗💖 - to you both - *thank you* 🍷🥂🍷
This video is fantastic.
Right on!
Sir, just marvelous 😊
AWESOME!
This is very interesting, and the pouring moment was way too good.
Very interesting. Really enjoyed it. At 12:31 something you would find at a market in Tijuana 😊
Das pretty dope yo!
I can pour box wine in a similar fashion 😂
Amazing
Felt a bit Tomorrow's World (old UK tv series when demonstrations sometimes didn't go according to plan) when the demonstration kicked off. I liked this as it gives a bit of life behind the objects. Great job.
قلبم میشکند وقتی میبینم میراث باستانی ایران در موزه های لندن ، پاریس و نیویورک است .
ای کاش بتوانیم یک روز میراث اجدادمان را پس بگیریم!!!! 🇮🇷❤️
نه اونجا بمونه بهتره چون نباید دست آخوندا بیوفته وگرنه همه رو میفروشن قاچاق میکنن یا خراب میکنن
وقتی آخوندا رفتن بعدش پسشون میگیریم
He's a very good speaker.
This episode was hilarious! Good job guys!😂😂😂😂
thanks for giving this great insight. My girlfriend and me just started doing some pottery and this was quite inspiring.
I saw Irving talk in Newburgh, NY back in I think 2011 or 12. It was standing room only and everyone was completely enthralled.
this is most interesting thing i have seen this month. I am just an electritian, but i realy find it amazing. Good job
Thank you. So interesting and so clearly expounded. Are there other examples of cross-cultural artisic influence?
I was lucky enough to visit the museum and see the exhibition, I can't overstate how good it was, what an amazing job!
Wow. Just wow.
The Irving Finkle cameo killed me oh my god--
Luxury begins when you need to display your power.
not necessary, well, yes, wealth and power are associated with luxury, but culture also have an important role
That cameo made me so very happy :)
Wow. ♡♡♡
My left ear had a great time listening to this video
Dr. Irving Finkel!!! I hope he got to finish the bottle!
In serbian there is a saying, although mostly used by kids to ridicule other kids, due to its inherent sillyness) "ko se bije, taj se voli". it has multiple diferent, altough simmilar translations, most prominten are "who are fighting (each other), (they) are loving (each other)" or the, "who is beang beat(en), is being loved". The reason why I mention is that warfare between 2 groups, almost with a guarantee results in a shared influence. Rome is the prime example of that, they either responded with a new counter measure in occasion, in another sthraight up adopted thier enemies tactic, a lot of thier equipment arguably is ibero-celtic, and everything in between.