Millerman Talks #12: Leo Strauss, Neoconservatism, and Noble Lies
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- Some thoughts on Leo Strauss, neoconservatism, and noble lies. Sorry that the video is out of focus! I forgot to focus it but didn't want to rerecord it after the spontaneous talk. Also, I misspoke at one point when neglecting to mention the Phaedo as the dialogue that treats Socrates's end. But I trust viewers will still find some of the comments here interesting and helpful.
@M_Millerman
Well done, well spoken. Organized. Concise. Clear. Well thought out. Thank you. I learned a lot in a brief time.
That's great that baby keeps interrupting. That woman chimes in as she is following along. I wish my wife was like that
Thanks. Essential info for students everywhere. Leo strauss has predecessors in both plato and machiavelli. Both men are valuable teachers to world statesmen, but their ideas must be used with some reflection about how the world has changed since 400 BC. Let's emerge from the cave. We will all get along a little better.
The great philosopher Lyndon LaRouche totally debunked Strauss, destroyed and demolished him.
Do you even know who he is? Marxist civil rights activist?
Not believing in the gods of the City sounds like not believing the Covid narrative.
And many, many others.
Superb. Accessible to working people. If you do a video on neitzche I’d appreciate it.
He's made several Nietzsche videos?
@@SatSingh-mm4gg I haven’t found them?
Just subbed for all your content, started down this rabbit hole through Jordan Peterson, discovered John vervaeke and now I’ve discovered you.
I haven't heard of John Vervaeke, but I too wouldn't be here if I didn't get interested in Peterson a few years ago
@@crowstakingoff oh Peterson just spoke with vervaeke, he’s a cog sci teacher at u of t they’ve known each other for quite some time now., check out his meaning crisis series on CZcams it’s probably just as good as Peterson’s biblical series
For a profound philosophical political interpretations within the sphere of the right, Millerman is way better than Peterson, and to be honest, regarding all the respect that I hold for Peterson, he is bad in politics, and his criticism of Marxist ideology is actually, well, superficial, and goes by the notion: "Marxism killed 100 million, marxism bad"...But I think that a Person who watch and read Peterson can formulate a coherent correlation between his philosophical and psychological analysis, that can be implicitly translated into a political stance.
Peterson is a quack and a fraud, @@MM-KunstUndWahrheit. He peddles a low resolution viewpoint on anything Left of Lindsay Graham and rides the coat Tails of great men like Jung and Nietzsche. His babbling is only useful because he name drops real men while pretending to be one.
Good talk, and I agree with you as far as it goes. But I think the more relevant text is The Republic, in which Socrates envisions a state governed by wise guardians who have escaped the cave of delusion. At a certain point, he asks whether it might not be necessary to deceive the people in order to get them to do something they would not otherwise want to do, and this for the greater good of the state. This, in my opinion, is what was guiding the neocons.
I've been checking out more of Millerman's content, which I came to via Hanania, Michael Anton and Jack Murphy (pre-embarrassment). Then dropped interest only to come back once Millerman's been breaking down Thiel, Vance and Yarvin. I had no idea Millerman is a zionist, maybe he is Jewish - I don't know, don't really care. I do care about the idea of a Jewish National Homeland and would be in favor of it as long as it didn't encroach on the people who were already living there, but of course that's a whole mess to argue, particularly because every defender or critic chooses the timeline or history that suits their arguments. There is no, one comprehensive argument that, in my view, rationalizes a "Jewish homeland" or Rothschilds-built state. I am definitely against the obvious ethnic cleansing that the Israeli State is currently imposing on Gaza and parts of the WB. I imagine that I'll keep looking to this channel for insights on philosophers and political thought, but perhaps it would be a good podcast episode if Michael were to argue his case for zionism, particularly because many of the NRx or factions of the New Right are often anti-zionist, anti-Israeli state (if not more extreme toward ethnic hate and scapegoating). If such an episode already exists on this channel on this topic, I'd like to know which one.
Hey, thanks for watching and for your comment. I don't really make the case for Zionism but I do address the topic in a few videos. Zionism and the fourth political theory is one of them. The other is a paper I wrote doing some analysis from the perspective of comparative law. You can find that on this channel as well. It's not my main topic but I do address it from time to time. Cheers.
By the way, I never interviewed Hanania and he never interviewed me. Curious how you got to my content through him. I did read one of his articles about the tech right on this channel recently.
@@millerman Thank you, I'll look that up. I'm greatly enjoying your Strauss, Heidegger, Thiel, Schmitt commentary.
@@millerman Sorry if that was confusing, I was trying to remember the chronology as it makes sense in my mind and likely am referring to a general circle (a soup of dissident right voices). It'd be more accurate if I said I started with Yarvin very early on ~2008 while still considering myself what they call a Classical Liberal, then much later Michael Malice. From there I started looking into more New Right stuff, which then went toward whatever I could find from a compelling right wing, conservative or populist perspective. I eventually started listening to Robert Barnes, the attorney, who had spoken very highly of you (particularly your commentary on Dugin, likely around the time of Russia's special military operation) and Hanania at the time (thus my associating you two in the previous post), Barnes has since disavowed Hanania and Pedro Gozalez (both of whom were on his Sidebar show with Viva Frei). So, I imagine I just threw you in there due to my foggy memory of the Viva Barnes sidebars. To my knowledge Barnes is still a big fan of yours. My favorite or most needed insights I've heard from you recently have been the JD Vance and Yarvin recent eps. the breakdown of whether or not Plato can be blamed for totalitarianism/communism and all of your Thiel commentary. I have yet to get a good grasp on the importance of Strauss or Heidegger, so I look forward to your casts that go into that in depth. Thank you for your work.
This is going a bit off subject but since you said you were Zionist, what's your take on the Transfer Agreement with Nazi Germany in the 30s?
Hello Michael. I highly recommend reading Rediscovering Plato and the Mystical Science of Dialectic by Norman D Livergood. Additionally, I highly recommend watching lectures by Pierre Grimes. Best wishes.
Thank you for the recommendations.
Very inspiring to view the Noble Lie in this light. What about Plato’s use of the Noble Lie in the Republic re The Myth of the Metals, though? Not only is this a more explicit use of the NL in Plato, but it seems directed at a political goal. Thank you.
I always found it curious that in the Crito (the dialogue which is mentioned in the video that takes place while Socrates is imprisoned) Socrates advises his followers to pay attention to the words of wise men, not the majority of men, but he then goes on to willingly submit himself to the death sentence (even after a bribe was successfully offered to the prison guard) which has been ordained for him by essentially what was majority rule - the Athenian state. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Good question. Socrates thought the unexamined life not worth living. But having examined his life philosophically, he found that he did not have knowledge. In the absence of knowing the truth, he found he had no reason to abandon the conventions of the time.
Are you sure it's a noble lie and not esoteric writing
Esoteric writing is how noble lies are transmitted between the liars.
I kind of raised an eye brown when you stated that your original thoughts about the neocons were positive because they tend to be positive about the statehood of Israel - is this really a wise starting point if one is to judge the various ideologies or political thoughts. I couldn’t’ care less whether or not the Jews find e.g. the Fourth Political Theory to be wise or the opposite - that goes for the people of Chile and Kenya as well.
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That said, I think your explanation about the noble lie - based on Socrates and Plato - were very good.
But… I also think you put this very good explanation into a wrong context - especially with your examples about the war against Iraq.
If the given explanations to go for a war against Iraq was for a better cause - and this cause was too difficult to explain to the masses of US - what was the noble cause then!?...
I don’t think that this lie was meant noble - I think the reason was much simpler. I think that the lie was to cover up for the real political purpose only - and certainly not to obtain any kind of wisdom.
I also believe that the true goal of this war was to get rid of one of Israel’s enemies (especially due to Iraq’s SCUD-missiles and because Israel feared they had ABC-weapons as well).
I also believe that the second goal of that war was to obtain yet another US military strong hole from where the US later could control the oil production and later expand their activities against (the Russian-friendly/Israel-hostile) Syria and Iran.
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I think that the true Strauss just tries to advocate in order to justify any actions taking by the world police - meaning that if… a country don’t comply with the United States goal to plant a Starbucks, a McD and a 7-11 on every corner in their society, then… there is a treat against USA and it's a “noble” cause to invade them.
That’s also why Russia is the number one enemy of USA - as they don't allow Monsanto to use GMO-crops in Russia, as they don't allow Goldman Sachs to control the financial system in Russia, as they don't allow US companies to take 90% of the profit from Russia natural resources et cetera et cetera…
Thank you for your comments. I only wanted to distinguish between the view that the noble lie has a primarily political goal, like invasion, enrichment, and so on, and the view that the nobility of the lie can have a philosophical, rather than a political dimension. That was my limited aim. I have noticed that Strauss's name is often dragged into discussions of neoconservatism in a way that makes it seem as though he was a supporter primarily or exclusively of the political lie, I mean the lie for a political end. I hope my presentation shows that it is not so simple. Thanks again.
@@millerman Dear Michael
1. Yes, I get it about the distinguishing between the view that the noble lie could have a primarily political goal, like invasion, enrichment, and so on, and the view that the nobility of the lie could have a philosophical, rather than a political dimension - and again you made a difficult subject easy to understand - I just think that the example with Iraq were a bad choice.
2. About the Jewish angle; Pls note that I personally rank Jews as high as all other human people - that being Danes or people from Singapore - neither less, neither more.
That said, I also see you tend to bring in some kind of Jewish angle to several of your talking points. By doing that I think you limit yourself - and thereby your frame for a true philosophical discussion about the subject.
Because… going back in times then; how do you measure the philosophical aspects of Denmark who, for thousands of years, didn’t had any Jews at all - or what about Asia, South America, what about the ethnic natives former gods in USA, et cetera et cetera.
Do we have to find a Jewish angle to explain The French Revolution - and what to do, if that's not possible!?...
[EDITED]
[and what if the French Revolution was not even a French phenomenon!? ... Please remember that when philosophers such as Jean-Jacques Rousseau talked about the social contract, why we were not monsters or about why artists exhibited their works, he never spoke of the French people, but about humans and human nature. Had Jean-Jacques Rousseau limited his philosophical observations to only Frenchmen (or from a Jewish or Danish angle), he had set an artificial framework for his findings. I kindly quote your own thoughts from “Millerman Talks Episode 8 - Inquiry and Moderation”; “…thought seeks to exceed boundaries and limitations”…]
In my book it’s completely legal to lean on your personal experience as a Canadian citizen regarding e.g. your student period in Canada or as a Jew (where it’s relevant) - in all other cases the Canadian and Jewish Michael Millerman should be filtered out in order to get a free philosophical analyse slash debate.
I look forward to your answer:-)
Kind regards
Tommy
Thanks for your comments. The main reason I thought it was appropriate to bring up the Jewish issue in this video is that neo-conservatism is often taken to be a broadly Jewish phenomenon by its opponents. I wanted to disclose and acknowledge what might seem relevant to some, while at the same time transcending that horizon in the course of the discussion itself. Anyway, it will not be a regular theme of my videos, especially the more philosophical ones. Thanks again for your comments and for watching.
@@millerman
Dear Michael
OK - noted. I’ll look forward to new videos slash writings from you and a (delayed) Happy New Year to you and your lovely family.
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The videos about political and philosophical topics are really good and I look forward to see the next in line.
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Kind regards
Tommy
Calling Leo strauss neoconservative is dumb
He is literally the main architect of america's foreign policy. All his followers are neoconservatives, aka zionists
The invasion of Iraq was on the behalf of Israel… not oil.
Citation needed
You're not an entomologist?
Gadfly sting is so painful that most people would go into shock?
Ie like the stingray?
You dont know, bro.
You're simply forwarding memes?
The noble lie sums up what conservatism has become. From Brexit to Trump, conservatives accepting that lying to the working class is needed inorder to win in a democracy.
Neocons opposed brexit and trump...
Strauss did a better job in his debate against Dugin but bannon destroyed Strauss in that debate.