Forefoot vs Heel Strike Walking Debate-Grown and Healthy vs Todd Martin MD
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- čas přidán 12. 07. 2022
- Forefoot Strike vs Heel Strike Walking Debate with Mark Hendriks from Grown and Healthy vs Todd Martin MD from The Walking Code. This debate was put together and moderated by Jared K from Primal Health and features two of the most prominent voices on CZcams on the subject of optimizing health by improving walking technique. Almost everyone walks heel first, but there is a growing number of people advocating that forefoot first walking would be the more healthy and natural way to walk. The Grown and Healthy Channel is the most recognized voice advocating for forefoot walking as the healthy alternative to heel strike walking. He debates Todd Martin MD, who also recognizes the health hazards of poor walking technique, but believes the solution is learning how to walk properly with a heel strike, not changing the nature of walking from the way it has always been practiced by virtually everyone on earth for millennia.
Joint the debate by leaving a comment. Let us know your thoughts.
This is an unedited debate. I will be posting shorter clips with some additional rebuttal in the near future. I greatly appreciate Jared for setting up this debate. I believe the different and contradictory messages offered on CZcams can be very confusing for people trying to improve their walking technique. Thanks to Mark from Grown and Healthy for participating in the great discussion. Both participants are very knowledgeable, but have come to different conclusions regarding the solution to the problems of poor walking technique that lead to a variety of medical conditions, like plantar fasciitis, fallen arches, bunions, hammertoes, knee pain, hip pain, and back pain. Please enjoy the debate, click the like button, and subscribe to the channel.
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Interesting update. Mark from Grown and Healthy just posted a video demonstration of how to walk in minimalist footwear on his channel today. He is striking heel first the whole time. He is definitely not using a forefoot strike. I would check it out if you are convinced by his arguments.
Hi Todd, my question is this: if Mark is walking, as you mention, with the heel. Is that the correct way to walk with the heel? Or is there something missing? Greetings.
@@patriciosepulveda6443 He is doing something a little strange, forcing a placement on the far outside of the foot, which is not natural. He also has an anterior pelvic tilt which affects the way he walks. So, no, he isn't really walking correctly, but he is definitely not forefoot walking.
Here is a case in point for whatever its worth. At some point I had to live in a refugee camp for 9 Months. This was in a third world. I walked in with a nice pair of shoes however because we were not given clothing while living and when we eventually leave the camp we had to protect our shoes and so walked around camp and played sports, soccer specifically all bare feet. The first Month was difficult as the inside of my feet, the heel and the toes were all torn up, bruised, bleeding, sore and then all healed. I realized if I walked and run with the flat of my feet hitting the ground first, more emphasis in the front half I could get injured less. Well that was how I used my feet. With them eventually growing a thick callous and I using my feet the safest way, playing soccer in that dirt and rocky field was no problem. The problem I faced was 9 months later my feet could not fit in the shoes I walked in with. Try and run in a rocky dusty field hitting the ground heel first and see what happens. You will eventually learn to land with the full bottom of your feet and land under your center of gravity. Hitting the ground with the heels stretching your legs in front of you will bust your heels and the bones under the cushioning on your heel. Give it a try and let me know.
Heel striking when walking with shoes is not as destructive as running. Hitting the ground heel first specially when the legs are stretched forward will kill the knees. I learned it the hard way too.
For those interested, here is the video
czcams.com/video/VqRXuWYGvTE/video.html
@ToddMartinMD, you're totally right, if you slow the video down, Mark is clearly heel striking, although to very minimal degree. His forefoot is already almost touching the ground when the heel lands. I think this _feels_ like a forefoot strike (even if in reality it is not), because it is still dramatically different from the "heel-toe" way that one walks with a padded running shoe. In the end, I believe that both of your understandings and theories around walking are in reality fairly similar and compatible, even if Mark's dogmatic belief in his gait, and the natural gait, being a "forefoot strike" is probably misguided.
either heelstrike either forefoot strike a honest debate is always a step forward on the path of knowledge so thank you to you both.
You are welcome, Luca. It was a nice debate.
Its 100% more risky and damaging to walk on your heels that the ball of your foot... but hey keep debating the knee surgeon doesnt mind the confusion
Can we please just appreciate the fact dr todd pretty much read and replied to every single commemt, what a man!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤
It’s always my pleasure to respond.
@@ToddMartinMD I watched grown and healthy before you, for 4 to 5 days i forced to walk forefoot and i caused myself so much pain!!!!! And oddly the pain is in my heels, ankle and knees, i watched video as i had back pain from walking, now the pain is moved to ankle area!!!!! I respect mark from grown and healthy but I wish I listened to you first!!!!! And I want to say thank you for saying walking and running are completely different..... there is no debate with walking and running period, thanks dr Todd for all you do ♥️♥️♥️♥️
@user-eb9vi1md7s It’s my pleasure.
Appreciate this debate, thank you both for being willing to do so.
You are very welcome.
Thanks doc, your arguments are clear, to the point, and very informative.
You’re welcome. Thanks for your comment
When i practice Mark's forefoot walk, my back pain begins to melt. It feels silly at first but as a therapeutic "thing", I love it.
There is nothing wrong with practicing forefoot walking. The problem with Mark’s perspective is he is trying g to tell people that is the natural way to walk and heel strike is wrong. He is just way off base with that. People who have problems with heel strike just aren’t walking correctly.
I tried both method, heel strike requires less effort but harder on the knees. Front strike (I actually prefer fore to slightly mid strike) requires more effort, easier on the knees, more traction controls, develops strength around ankles. I think if you're within normal weight heel strike is fine. But if you are a little heavier then forefoot strike is better. It took a while for me to adapt. I started with 10 minutes and gradually increase it. Now I can walk forefoot strike for 7500 steps with no problem.
Heel strike is definitely more efficient. Forefoot striking may have less impact on the knee, but it is only significant if people are heel striking incorrectly. Unfortunately a lot of people walk incorrectly. Forefoot striking will have significantly more stress on the ankle and achilles. For walking, this should all be a non-issue if walking with normal technique because proper heel strike is not significantly high impact. Running has much more impact. Studies have suggested that people who get achilles/ankle pain when running may benefit from changing to a heel strike. People who get knee pain when running may benefit from changing to a midfoot or forefoot strike.
Personally I always walked barefoot at home and it is basically unimaginable for me to walk heel first when barefoot. No matter how softly I lower my foot heel first, I always feel a "thud" in my head, but with "outer side forefoot" landing I feel much more comfortable and never experienced this "thud" sensation. The same goes for shoes but it is less noticeable with a lot of cushion. So based on my observations, forefoot (not fingers) first is the way to go as it dissipates landing forces much better and doesn't allow them to move all the way through your body up to your head.
If you feel a thud, that is an indication of incorrect technique. I also walk barefoot at home all the time and have no thud, and most habitual barefoot walkers do heel strike. Of course you can place softly on the forefoot, but it is a really inefficient way to move energetically speaking and also just transfers the strain to other areas of the body.
@@ToddMartinMD While walking barefoot, just above the heals with gliding movement seems to work fine (as mentioned here : czcams.com/video/gNOLixLh2VM/video.html )
i am just so happy there are others so interested in walking, thank you for the debate
My pleasure
Found your channel while studying running mechanics, techniques, and form due to my knee tendonitis. I learned that I was heel striking as I ran and found the best runners in the world landed mid-front on their feet. I haven't ran in 10 years and ran 1 mile with yesterday without any knee pain or over-exhaustion. I started wondering about sprinting and walking, if the same mechanics apply or not. I found Grown and Healthy channel first, and I was buying into it initially, it sounded great in theory. When I applied forefoot landing, it seemed tiring in some muscles, uncoordinated, unnatural, and silly. I am still listening and re-listening to this debate, but it is difficult to argue with millions of years of evolutionary mechanics and evidence. I think Dr. Martin takes the win here by a landslide, or a heel strike slide. ;P I will subscribe and continue to investigate your work. I notice you have been consistent with responding to questions/comments, if you would be so kind to answer one more. How do the body mechanics(foot strikes, poster, form, hips, etc.) alter/differ during walking, jogging, and sprinting? Thank you for your efforts and time Doctor.
Search the channel for my running videos. I discuss forefoot, midfoot, and heel. The pattern of core movement changes for each. Sprinting usually will be forefoot for a skilled runner because the final motion in the air is pushing down with the forward swing leg hip, like when you reach down to place a foot on a lower step. This action makes the ankle plantar flex, landing on the ball. A competitive marathon runner will usually hit midfoot and the rear leg is generally still extending back as the midfoot comes down. There is no push down like in the sprint.
Great debate. Now I am totally confused. :)
If there is a particular point you are confused about, let me know.
If you are interested in the subject of forefoot walking, let me know what first got you thinking about this topic.
I transitioned to barefoot shoes a few months ago and honestly I'm still struggling to figure out how to walk properly without pain. I quickly figured out that the conventional heel strike was out, then I tried the forefoot strike and that didn't alleviate the pain. So now I'm trying something in-between where I land on the front portion of my heel instead of the back. I just want to get back to walking again. Right now I feel so much slower and my feet hurt at the end of the day, or after a break from walking. I knew this wouldn't be an overnight fix but my goodness!
@@kristitahada5594 I don't think barefoot shoes are a solution to walking problems. They just make it obvious when you have a walking problem that needs to be fixed. That takes practice and the correct technique.
@@ToddMartinMD The short version of the story is that I went from a very sedentary lifestyle to a highly active job with tons of walking on concrete floors. My feet killed me! Some pricey insoles brought me some relief but then I learned that feet are naturally supposed to be able to support themselves. The idea of developing stronger feet was very attractive so I made the switch to barefoot shoes thinking that in the short term I'd suffer but in the long run I'd have stronger, healthier feet. I also got toe dividers to help stretch and bring mobility back to my toes and I do notice a difference in pain levels on days when I don't wear them the night before vs when I do. So now I'm wondering if the last piece in the puzzle, which will get me to feet that can handle my daily life, is correcting how I'm walking. I'm literally thinking of going to a physical therapist just to get some professional help with this.
@@kristitahada5594 If you are walking incorrectly, that has to be fixed before anything else is going to be a help in the long run.
I’m walking 8-9 miles a day and my feet are hurting. Plantar fasciitis is painful! I’ve been trying walking landing on ball of foot since watching your video, but it really feels awkward. I want to get my walk right then look at shoes. Right now I have New Balance running shoes.
Intresting! I’ve been walking with too much heels and knees befor, which been no good for me.. so the frontfoot methood with the toes to help support the body weight, is the one for me. Also help your confidence and mood
I hope it helps.
Bob and Brad demonstrated heel strike 's effect on the knees by cracking a nut in the joint of a skeleton and also describing how the knee locked. And they emphasized the glutes
Their demonstration was really stupid. According to them, you would be cracking a nut while lying in bed with your legs straight. There is no debate in the medical community or any other that heel strike is and always has been the normal way to walk. And the glutes are active to absorb shock until the forefoot hits. They then shut off and have no role in executing the swing through. This is clearly demonstrated in EMG studies. You don’t push yourself forward with your glute max.
Youre actually right scientist dont want us to know that the tendons and muscle in our knees degrade over time. The heels will for sure do more damage than your toes or mid foot. Over use injuries and muscle use will always be better than impact injuries and the chronic conditions that come from under use.
You don’t need scientists to tell people to heel strike because it is natural. People in every country, even where people don’t wear shoes, walk with a heel strike. I would love for you to link a video of any group of people anywhere in the world at any time in history walking with a forefoot strike. It doesn’t exist. You can look at CZcams videos of people walking in Tokyo in the 1800s and everyone has a heel strike. People who walk correctly with a heel strike have no issues with their knees. I have plenty of patients in their 90s with no knee issues. I am in my mid 50s and have never had a pain in my knee. In Bob’s latest video you will also see that he does not walk with a forefoot strike himself. He is terribly duck footed and walks heel first.
@ToddMartinMD I don't need a single source of evidence to make a point. I do however love to look at all the information on each side and how the body is meant to function tell me one person who would run with a heel strike? There's not a single professional runner who would heel strike constantly. Humans weren't made to heel strike just like they were meant to sit hunched over for 40hr/wk. If we weren't meant to run with our heels were not meant to walk on them with large strides either. Most of your studies deal with back pain and similar correlations without taking into account weaker glutes, worse postures, and the fact that most people run and speed walk not just casually strolling like the just learned how. No time in history have we ever needed 10k steps a day either
@ToddMartinMD people are lazy you never want to even give them the chance to think what their doing normal is correct when they're gonna slack off and walk on their heels and hard with added fat weighing them down, head loads, and over all terrible posture at least toe walking will help remind them.
(This is mainly for the majority of US citizens in the modern day of course we can't take into consideration all of human history.)
only the mechanics of how the body works and the muscle usage can help us save people from themselves
I think I mostly walk forefoot first when barefoot, but I have caught myself sometimes walking forefoot first even in shoes and I have no idea why I do that! I never even realized I was walking that way until my mother mentioned it to me years ago.
Most people never think about the way they are walking, until they develop a problem.
From a psychological perspective I prefer more of forefoot over heelstrike.
A deprest individual unconsciously use less energy and that mental state can be changed by using a more energy craving walking technique. So I think your right in a way.
I wish you the best handling your depression. Interestingly enough, Mark from Grown and Healthy just posted a video today demonstrating how to walk from multiple angles and he has a heel strike. He is definitely not striking forefoot first.
@@ToddMartinMD The most obvious difference to me is how much the leg is straighten in front. Thanks for responding as always!
@@bui340 If you are commenting on his recent video, the only significant difference I see is that he has a bit of an anterior pelvic tilt which slightly lessens the angle of his heel strike. The bottom line is, he isn't doing what he says he is doing at all.
As a kid growing up in the 70s I remember my friends and I sprinting in PE. We ran on our toes and never landed on our heals until we stopped sprinting.
That is normal for sprinting, not walking.
Interesting, I think I'm gonna use both, depending on speed (stroll or exercise) and shoes (high heel, short heel)
Glad you liked it.
People who start exercising will encounter pain too, it doesn't mean they should stop
Not sure what that has to do with heel strike vs forefoot strike.
Any links to the anthropological studies that Dr. Martin Referenced? I'm pretty sure that "apes" don't walk upright, but on all fours. I'm curious to see the actual research though. Thank you.
Here is a link to the footprint evidence humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/behavior/footprints/laetoli-footprint-trails#:~:text=The%20footprints%20also%20show%20that,the%20way%20modern%20humans%20walk.
Just google fissile evidence of heel strike walking. Apes don’t primarily walk on 2 legs, but they do for short periods. I am sure you must have seen chimps walking on 2 legs before. All apes do it for short distances, and always with a heel strike. That is also easy to look up.
Please excuse my previous comment, appreciate the effort you went to to put this together.
Forgiven.
Thanks, in my experience when people say negative things they can just be projecting… I’ve watched a lot of his videos and it seems to make sense to me and I’ve been trying it for a few days now. Feels weird but I’ll see ho it goes. I’m going to check out some more of your videos. Cheers
@@potato7173 Cheers.
Just wanna point out that ballroom dance fixes everything and is basically therapy to proper walking posture and movement. I was quite intrigued when I first saw those really popular videos proponating forefeet walking. Thanks to your brilliant videos, my faith in humanity is restored.
Definitely. You have to learn how to use your core fluently to be a good ballroom dancer.
I'll add what I think is the most contentious point for me in all of this. I can go into "Todd Martin" or "Mark Hendriks" videos and in the comments, it will be filled with people who have had positive results from either. It's very possible that from both sides, improvements are given which can help with walking technique.
It's very difficult to say that one is objectively better - without a proper study into it with enforced technique. So for now, I can only go by what i've read which seems to suggest that heel or fore/mid foot can both work - but the other elements are very important. Such as not to over-stride, keep the back straight and head positioned correctly.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I will just add this one thought. Lots of people clearly heel strike incorrectly and end up in pain. It may be quite simple for them to feel better quickly by changing forefoot strike because it would be very difficult to crash into your forefoot in the same way some people do into their heel. So, it makes sense that many people who walk incorrectly will feel some immediate benefit. Extrapolating that into saying heel strike is wrong and only a product of modern footwear is where I have a major issue. Of course this applies to walking, not running.
I find it really frustrating when so-called experts can't agree on such basic issues. Good Lord, we get enough of this with our politicians! As someone who has had various fractures over the years, this is fairly important for me.
There are very few so-called experts claiming that forefoot walking is the correct way to walk. Unfortunately, CZcams ranks their videos highly so they have an outsized influence. And from my experience, most are not experts, they are people who have tried to solve their own walking problems by changing to a forefoot strike and then made a great leap to believe that heel strike was the root of their problems. They are giving purely personal opinion based on their own experience. Look up the human gait cycle anywhere outside of youtube and you will find no disagreement.
Frankly, as long as you lose the weight that needs to be lost, focus on proper posture while standing and walking, make sure you feet aren't pointing outward while walking/running, and do basic foot/ankle exercises (assuming you have pain/issues), then one way or the other of walking likely wont be enough of an issue to destroy you.
With that said, I am no expert, but I had to deal with pain after a tendon tear in my foot, and the road to recovery showed me it really was down to muscle control not just in my feet, but in my core. Focus on the basics and frankly... I highly doubt basic walking will matter enough no matter which method of walking you end up with. Though running might be a bit different.
For that matter you might think that typing on a computer couldn’t cause debilitating nerve damage, but it can. Millions of people who are not overweight and not athletes have worn out joints at an early age. Walking is very capable of causing pain when not done correctly for long periods.
If i land heel first, it feels like a full bet on wherever I'm stepping and that link between my toes and my hips aren't there, whereas my forefoot is more of a check. For me, it's the smallest difference that could prevent a fall
Do what you have to if you feel at risk of falling.
I liked this debate a lot.
Glad you liked it.
Very interesting debate. After having pain with one my toe, I have switched to shoes that are minimalistic and started using a toe spacer. I had to adapt my walking to less cushioning and started browsing youtube videos and found both Dr. Martin and mr. Hendriks's videos. I've tried both method for number of weeks and decided to go with Dr. Martin's method but it took many weeks of adaption and muscle building in the foot, legs and core to properly land the foot on the ground with a soft impact. I have to say that Dr. Martin's videos are very interesting but there are so many videos that it can become really overwelming and sometime hard to find the information you are looking for. A suggestion on that mather would be to have shorts instead of long pants when doing videos because it's often hard to see the subtilties of the motion. Also having someone without a shirt (doesn't have to be Dr. Martin himself) would also help to visualize the core muscle that are actived. I'm not saying this because I want to see Dr. Martin shirtless and in shorts :) but because I often find it hard to visualize the exact muscle and motion involved and because I'm a very visual person and probably not the only one. An alternative could also be to use computer animation to show the motions and muscle actived. Thank you.
Thanks for the comment. I recognize the problem with having so much information on the channel. I recently did a Getting Started playlist to try and help with sequencing for new viewers. As to the visualization, this is challenging, beyond the idea of me going shirtless, because you won’t see the muscles moving or contracting. You have to feel it. Even with an animation showing the muscles, you would just see the muscles but not the muscles moving since the core is not moving a visible joint. The rotational action is disguised by the forward movement, so there wouldn’t be much to see.
czcams.com/video/9sXxGZ6QuRI/video.html
Let me know if this video I made helps, I have found that landing on the whole foot at once has worked best for me and allows me to walk for 5 miles a day activating all muscles in a functional way without causing over use injury.
100%.
20 years ago, I used to have heel pain often. The "bare foot" and "fore foot" guys came out with Vibram 5 Fingers and made a good case to me about why our gait is wrong and causing damage. I didn't buy the Vibrams, but I did start practicing fore foot and mid foot walking until it became 2nd nature to me, and I have not had any heel pain since that day. I wear sandals all of the time, and walk long distances without foot pain from them, because of forefoot walking = I do NOT heel strike in sandals.
The Vibram people did lose a lawsuit because they didn't have any evidence to back up their claims. But if you were walking incorrectly and getting pain, then it is possible that walking forefoot first for you is better than walking heel first in an incorrect manner. I think people should do what they need to do if they are having serious issues with the way they walk. The problem I have is those people then telling everyone else in the world they are walking incorrectly, which is just not true.
I feel that jogging and running can cause more injuries than walking or brisk walking. This is especially so when we do it eg around the neighbourhood on concrete paths and uneven grounds… often these have fallen leaves or twigs or pebbles etc that can cause injuries… and often these paths are never straight or level, can be gentle or even rather inclined… I have experienced foot injuries even with brisk walking because of such situations. And jogging and running out even more stress to our tendons and ligaments. May be good for cardio and stamina but not as safe. What do you think?
Running injuries are very common, but it is a great exercise. I think as a universal recommendation, walking is for everyone. Terrain shouldn’t be an issue with good technique.
@@ToddMartinMD Thanks for your reply :) But in one video you spoke about looking our gaze forward when we walk. I note that if I do not look down I may accidentally step on some slippery twig or leaves that can make me fall or hurt my foot (I have skinny small feet), so how can we have good technique and avoid injuring ourselves? I have seen so many sports professionals ending up with sport injuries. For very clear straight paths, yes I do try to keep my gaze ahead. Thank you.
I have been listening to Grown and Healthy for awhile,and I trust the host. I know that this host does not use the heel-strike way of walking. I have just recently started watching the other guest,and in one of his videos,he was advocating for walking with a gentle,heel-strike movement. I was confused,and then I came upon this debate. Now,hopefully,I can hear the reasoning of these two people,and I can then figure out what to do. I am not aware of how I naturally walk. It seems like my whole foot is engaged when I walk,and I do not mean in a flat-footed position. I mean I do not seem to walk on my heel,or my forefoot.
The question here is about what makes initial contact. It has to be either the heel, the midfoot, or the forefoot. After initial contact, the whole foot will come to the ground regardless of what makes initial contact. As to trusting Mark from Grown and Healthy, I am sure he believes what he is saying, but it is counter to all evidence and all past history of human walking, and all fossil evidence of how early humans walked, and even how all great Apes walk when they do walk bipedally. In my experience, everyone who is advocating forefoot walking (and it is a tiny fringe but elevated on CZcams) has had pain because they were personally not walking correctly. Instead of fixing their walk, they have developed a theory that everyone in the world is walking incorrectly and they are the savior. If you are considering changing the way you walk, I would do research outside of CZcams also and be skeptical when a CZcams personality is saying every health professional in the world has it wrong.
I definitely think that the heel strike is natural that is how we start walking when we’re babies. But if overtime our feet fall apart from pounding on the pavement and our arches fall down in our body gets sore. Then we need to find a new way to walk and the foot strike in the front is a way to save your body and continue on walking for the rest of your life in a way that will preserve your body and you can walk that way in a forest if you’re kind of stalking or worried that there is something hazardous to your feet
Pounding the pavement and fallen arches are a result of incorrect heel strike, which is quite common. My channel tries to teach people how to do it correctly, preferably before issues start. Proper heel strike is not jarring and does not cause significant stress on the knees and can be done until very advanced age without an issue. I understand that many people have been doing it so wrong for so long that they are desperate for a quick fix that seems to require less effort that learning how to walk properly. What I disagree with strongly is people trying to peddle this forefoot-walk compensation for bad walking technique as the ideal and normal way people should be walking. .
babies actually walk forefoot and pull up there leges using their hamstrings. They look awkward doing it but still they do. Imaging grown ups walking like that, haha...
That would be a pretty odd way for adults to walk. Babies haven’t learned how to coordinate their muscles yet.
I seriously doubt we heel strike when we learn walking as babies.
I never had an issue with normal shoes other than them beign too damn narrow I always struggled to find shoes until I found one model from sketchers I kept buying it for around 10 years but couple of months ago I tried barefoot and it soo comfortable.
but the transtion I noticed after 3 weeks of 25k avg steps per day, my heel almost split from constent hitting it, I developed mid foot strike when walking and it's alot more comfortable, I can't walking forefoot for long amount of time and landing on heel hurts after couple of steps. so mid foot walking was the best for me.
I have a question for you. What method are you using to midfoot strike? There are only two real ways to do it when walking. One is to walk with your standing leg significantly bent at the knee or to lean forward from the waist, which breaks the posture from vertical at the waist.
@@ToddMartinMD I basically land on my feet when it below me and using my pinky side of the foot the whole foot but mostly the mid. and then roll my foot to the inside and land my whole foot then push with my forefoot and move my entire body with my other leg.
@@Gamex996 I would be careful of your posture, which is just as important as how you land. If you are landing on your foot with your center of gravity over it, by definition you must be bent over at the waist, which is not good for your back. Landing on the midfoot when running is practical because your other foot is in the air when you land, allowing your posture to be vertical. If you have both feet on the ground at the same time when you land (which is the definition of walking) the only way to land with your weight over your center of gravity is to bend at the waist.
Walking on pebbles with my five fingers is like a free massage to my feet 😁
Good way to think about it.
I am so frustrated. I used to be/am a toe walker. Got picked on enough, So I tried to correct it myself. Now I have poor balance, hip and back pain and I lean forward. I'm not even 40 yet. I wish I could understand how to walk properly
I have a lot of videos to help with proper technique. If you have always been a to walker since childhood, that may be difficult to change because your muscles and joints will have adapted to that unless you fixed it at an early age.
@@ToddMartinMD I wish I could meet with you in person . i'm located in new hampshire
. Maybe I could make an appointment to see you and fly there?
@@ToddMartinMD I have noticed that if I take shorter strides and let my knees bend slightly. I don't have the hip pain. I feel like I was locking my knees to overcompensate
Congrats, I knew you would go wild. Bravo for your success, Todd. 👍
Thanks
I have seen a couple of strongman show. In most of the videos people heel striking during farmer walk, especially in the beggining.
There are very few situation when people would not heel strike on level ground with no obstacles.
Great presentation Dr. Martin. I tried the toe strike walking and it was awful and felt extremely unnatural. I doubt that he's able to walk around like that all the time. I was a heel striker but I got into bad habits. I wasn't incorporating my hips, glutes and core properly. I made some relatively minor adjustments, thanks to your videos, and I feel great walking now. Thank you, Dr.
Thanks. I am glad the videos have helped. I appreciate you comment.
I'm 18 and I began forefoot walking everyday during the summer and later to school, work, practice now and it gave me more awareness of all the muscles in my lower back and how my core connects to my hips so I started to work mobility exercises and relieved the tightness in my lower back, calves, and hips which in turn helped strengthened my knees and aligned my ankles increasing my spring for athletic activities. Its not a "toe walk" your toes assist by gripping the ground when barefoot but there not meant for absorbing impact. I really don't ever recall ever experiencing much fatigue over the time I was 230 going down to 180 in 4 month of just walking and a bit of sports, not diet changes or anything
🤦♂️🤦♀️🤦♂️🤦♀️
Very nice video. I really enjoyed watching you two respectfully debate about this.
I think you and Mark both have a lot of knowledge but some arguments that Mark use are not correct.
I agree with you on all you sayd. Having that on mind, i would like if you can answer to me a question.
One critic that i've hear to forefoot walking is that may cause problems because of the vulnerability of this part of the foot, that may not response well to this level of overload (walking this way all the time). However, is mostly accepted that strike first with the forefoot for some runners in some sport disciplines could be an option, as you both sayd (i know you also made the clarification that's not really 100% clear that is the best way of running).
I know the running and walking with forefoot strike are biomechanically different in so so many things. And because of that, i would like to know specifically what's the reason some people could get an injurie by walking with forefoot strike but not by running (i mean, the level of stress in the foot seems to be higher in the strike when you're running).
Thanks for the time you take to read my comment and answer me :)
Thanks for the question. I don’t think there is anything about the foot itself that would cause forefoot walking to be a problem. The point I usually make is more that, if you think landing on the heel is harmful, the forefoot is more vulnerable than the heel because the bones are more fragile and there are nerves running by each toe which could be injured. But the real answer is that neither the forefoot or heel are dangerous to land on in general. If you step on a nail, it is a problem regardless. Forefoot walking definitely causes more requires muscle work in the legs and this could cause strains, just like people who run get strains. The real issue with forefoot walking is it is inefficient and unnecessary as a primary means of locomotion. Forefoot or midfoot running is not inefficient.
To be more specific to your final question, I think there is no reason that someone would get pain from forefoot walking while not getting pain from forefoot running. I think someone fit enough and skilled enough to forefoot run would not be at risk of pain from walking forefoot. They would just be using a needlessly inefficient gait for no benefit.
@@ToddMartinMD thanks for answer me that question. I really apreciate it.
I was trying to think in how maybe the strengh of intrisecal muscles of the foot could prevent some injuries in some runners and perhaps that develop of strengh may not happens in random people who try to walk with forefoot strike. However, you're right, if somebody can get pain with forefoot walking, there is no reason to think that person will not get pain running with forefoot strike and in the other hand, if somebody is not getting pain by forefoot running, may not get pain by forefoot walking neither.
And it's more about eficiency of walking. Because even when you really have the necesary muscle strengh and flexibility to protect your foot and legs from get pain (like Mark), it's stil a very ineficient way to walk, with no benefits over walking correctly.
Thanks :)
You got it.
That was an interesting debate on video heel versus forefoot walking. I've changed to a forefoot style and have used Mark's videos, but I view it as a modern adaption based on the idea that people in industrial societies either walk or use mechanisation when we would have run or sprinted. I was mostly with Dr. Martin's arguments in the first 35mins, I saw the debate as laying in at what point our ancestors would have moved from walking to running to sprinting and what ratio we did of each. I've heard it said that pre-industrial people tend to conserve energy by sitting and moving around the home area, which would be done with heel striking. However I would question Dr. Martin saying that persistence hunters would have walked for most of it and then sprinted for the last part, giving efficiency as the main reason, as many references talk about running used for the practice. There are also cultures from Europe to the Americas who had a tradition of couriers who would run long distances to bring messages, where speed was of more importance than efficiency. Another claim I've heard is that people who walk on their heel barefoot don't point their toes up as high as those who wear shoes, which could also be contributing to putting the heel down to hard, especially with bigger wedges of foam that have to be pushed through before the foot finds stability.
On the question of military marching, anecdotally I've heard former service members talk about moving to minimalist shoes after suffering lots of pain and injury from their time in the military. Interestingly there is a zero drop boot made for US police and miliary, the Tactical Research Mini-Mil TR102, and on the amazon page it says '...encourages forefoot strike and extra wide toe box allows toes to splay for more natural walking and running', so that seems more nuanced than presented.
After the 35min point however Dr. Martins arguments completely lost me with his scare stories on forefoot walking on injury and a slow pace that is so far removed from my personal experience. I used to take pride in having a long stride and a very quick pace until into my thirties the pain in my lower back and knees made walking a chore. Changing to zero drop shoes made a big difference, and while I did change from heel walking to a forefoot strike, for the first few years as my calves adjusted and my I.T band loosed out, now I can get back some of my speed and distance I used to have, being able to do 8,000 steps, while keeping my heart rate down. I can keep walking like this day after day and the sore knees and back are in the past.
I found it interesting that the first part of Dr. Martins argument was focused on anthropology and yet when it came to if people should run on their heel or forefoot he says the science is not clear, well I wonder if he thinks the anthropology is clear? Which I understand wasn't part of the debate, but maybe this is why he emphasises walking so much because of the debate around running by cutting it out of hunting or saying ancestors either walked or sprinted.
A few points. I am not the one using scare tactics. I am responding to scare tactics by Mark and others who state that walking on the heel will cause damage when there is no evidence to that whatsoever. My point is that if you think the heel is not adapted to striking the ground with its dense solid structure and evolved heel pad cushion, why would landing on thinner unprotected metatarsals not be more damaging. The answer is that neither of them is an issue generally, but if you step of a sharp object you are going to have more risk on the metatarsals and the soft structures between them than on the heel, where there are no nerves to damage.
I don't argue that some cultures may have hunters who can run long distances and do that for most of the hunt, but that is irrelevant to the travel of a whole tribe of people who may be moving from one area to another area across long distances. And the research is clear that forefoot walking takes more work to do than heel strike walking so would cost people traveling more energy.
The anthropological argument is that fossils show groups of early humans moving at walking speeds walked with a heel strike. This in unambiguous since foot print analysis is a very evolved science. The point about research on running is that it is not clear if one causes more pain than the other. Many people run with either forefoot, midfoot, or heel and have no issues and it hasn't been proven whether switching helps of hurts. This is no comparable to the scientific analysis of footprints which is conclusive evidence. No relationship between these two different scientific issues.
I do not argue against minimalist shoes or for heavily padded and heeled shoes. I think minimalist shoes are great and people can develop walking problems from heavily padded shoes that give no feedback to the walker. This may lead to many issues, like overstriding which could be improved by walking bearfoot or in minimalist shoes. It does not need to be corrected by changing to forefoot striking. This has no bearing on whether or not people should walk with a heel strike.
My final point. It appears most people who are even interested in this topic, including Mark, have problems with the way they walk and have had issues with pain. This is why they are interested in the subject. They seem to project their personal walking issue onto everyone else as if everyone has problems from the way they walk. Most people do not. So there is a significant bias from people looking for forefoot walking videos because they are trying to find a solution to their walking technique issue. I think there is a psychological benefit to believing the issue is not a personal one, but caused by the whole of humanity not knowing how to walk correctly. I think people should do whatever they want, but I do these videos because people may fall prey to incorrect information on CZcams because of the fact that CZcams highly promotes some channels who have promoted forefoot walking to the point that people looking for information may falsely believe forefoot walking is commonly recommended by therapists or trainers. It is not.
Thanks for your comment.
Wow that was a good debate.
So what I gathered is forefoot may overwork and may be less efficient. And heel strike walking, if done improperly, can cause problems but is more efficient.
The way I see it from what I've heard, forefoot walking will not cause problems (also its understudied so who knows) except overuse. Which those muscles can be trained up in different ways besides walking to prepare yourself.
I havnt looked at too much of your videos but the margin for error for heels trike walking seems thinner. ( saying it's a worse method just because of that, just noting.)
I'd have to look at more of your videos for info but these walking methods seem to be interchangeable if one works out the muscles to compensate for overuse. Maybe you would need to take a break from forefoot walking if you are over doing it, just like working out, but you get to work out and also make sure you don't suffer from improper heels striking.
I think learning proper form for heel striking is probably "better" but personally I would like to walk forefront too and see how it goes. I'll learn both ways.
It is hard to beat evolution but we may have not caught up.
Nice debate regardless!
Glad you enjoyed the debate. The bottom line is that heel striking is much more energy efficient and the body is evolved to walk that way, which is why everyone walks that way including our prehistoric ancestors and all other great apes when they walk on 2 legs. People can decide to walk on the forefoot as a form of exercise or practice, but to intentionally change one’s default gait to one that is less efficient seems weird. Also , my main beef is telling people that heel strike is wrong and that it is only a result of modern footwear. That is just flat out wrong and gives people who are trying to improve the way they walk a bad premise to start with. Regarding the margin of error, correct heel strike is very easy to do. If you know how to move, it’s not like some steps you get wrong and some steps you get it right. People should be made aware when they are young, before bad habits develop.
@@ToddMartinMD Yeah, maybe wording it differently would be more appropriate 'More heel padding can exasperate bad walking habits if you are unaware of them' or something, idk.
And you say easy, but your get started playlist has 37 videos! lol. But ill eventually get through all of them! I appreciate the free info you give out regardless.
Think of the pads on your feet, ankles, and your upper back thigh muscles (muscle right under your butt) are shock absorbers. If you use your heal as primary contact as you walk,
You are using your knees and quads, spoas muscles, and lower back as shock absorbers! Most quad dominate people have big quads and lower back pain, knee pain, and ankle pain. Babies and toddlers
Walk in a single line and with their weight on the pads of there feet. Slight angle on the knees.
Babies and early toddlers are still learning how to coordinate there body and are essentially falling forward until they get better core control. Then they walk heel first, even in societies that do not use shoes. The glutes and quads and ankle dorsiflexors are all natural shock absorbers when you walk with a heel strike. They all contract eccentrically after heel contact to cause natural deceleration and shock absorption. In addition, the forward roll of the foot further dissipates impact. It is not coincidental that the calcaneus is the largest and most dense bone in the foot and has a fat pad cushion directly underneath it. It didn't evolve that way not to use it for impact.
amir sy' hal min halin
Master of both the front foot and hitting the foot is bad. Is there a solution
Striking the ground correctly with the heel is the solution. If you follow the technique I describe in my videos, you will see the correct path.
@@ToddMartinMD Sir, in which video did you mention the solution?
@@ranim3566 You can start with this one, but all of my walking technique videos review the proper technique for walking which leads to proper heel placement. czcams.com/video/C5irDKj_yoA/video.html
@@ToddMartinMDReally, sir, I followed your videos and benefited a lot from them, especially the video about duck legs, but I have small problems when walking It is represented by pressure on the right hip, which leads to a feeling of pain at its level, and sometimes I lose the ability to control my feet can you give me a tips
I'm late to the party but saying that we have always walked heel first seems to contradict a lot of paintings from etruscan, greek, roman cultures and even a lot of medieval paintings. If you take say egyptian wall paintings, the first thing you'll notice is that everyone is standing with their feet flat on the ground (or with the back heel lifted, but that is more rare). In my opinion they aren't standing, a lot of the time the context indicates that they are walking, but forefoot first. The same way you would implicate motion on pictures today by having the heel of the front foot down (forefoot raised) and the heel of the back foot up (forefoot down).
I think fossil evidence that shows people walked heel first would be much more reliable than assumptions about still people in paintings, where anyone modeling would have been standing in a stationary, balanced position. Also, I have found no evidence of any ancient writings that indicate cultures walked different from us today. You would think if there was some written interest if an entire society walked different from everyone today, but there is none. And people like Aristotle did write about walking technique.
@@ToddMartinMD I would encourage everyone to do their own research. While examining the aforementioned corpus (paintings of all forms, sculptures, albeit not all of it), I have found little to no pictural evidence of heel striking, substantial evidence of forefoot striking from various cultures (front foot raised and the forefoot about to hit the ground, the heel being nowhere near - in the debate, you talk about armies; there is an egyptian wall painting of an army marching in this manner), but yes, mostly it's just people with their first foot flat on the ground, which is indecisive. I concede that this evidence is at least as controversial as fossil evidence. In both cases (written and pictural), loss of source material has to be taken into account.
I am not sure how fossil evidence is controversial. Footprint analysis is a highly developed science and can give very precise definitions of how someone was walking. There is substantial footprint evidence of early humans walking, and it all indicates heel strike.
@@impro1981 Wrong. Statues and pictures rarely captured a scene of someone actually walking. Many paintings or stautues depict people with one foot raised on their tip toes purely for aesthetic reasons as it makes them appear more "divine" or elegant (English isn't my first language therefore I'm running out of words to accurately describe this posture in more detail).
@@thediesel1241 while that might be true in some cases, I doubt that all 4 cultures I mentioned felt this way about depicting walking. I could mention danse macabre paintings, where walking skeletons are far from being divine. Or one could think that the entire Bayeux tapestry would include at least some amount of less divine characters.
Rare as they are, you can find some instances if you look for them.
Saying that something is "Wrong." and then proceeding to reason with the words "rare" and "many" is not the best rhetorical technique, you have to point out a fatal contradiction in my proposition. You might say that ALL depictions of forefoot walking are like that to enhance the divine nature of the walker, but that is a bald claim. Still, it's a nice subject to make a study about. Huge corpus though.
I tried forefoot strike for three days. First it appeared so smooth, but in few days, calf muscles started to pain. I'm in mid 20s, btw.
Not surprised. Forefoot walking outs a lot more stress on the calf muscles.
@@ToddMartinMD Gliding movement as mentioned in another video - creates natural arm swing, walk almost effortless, and calf pain also subsided. Will check for few more days, and update the result.. So far so good. Thank you for the videos.
@@arjithkg8887 My pleasure.
Mine strengthened after a month and the pain subsided, took it like a workout. I am 25.
That’s great it’s working the correct muscles
I suggest observing toddlers as they learn to walk. This will provide insight to the natural foot strike before being influenced by shoes.
When else would you suggest observing toddlers who have no control of their bodies to determine how adults with core control should walk. Do you not understand that people walked with a heel strike before shoes were invented. Even all aprs walk with a heel strike when they walk on 2 legs. And there are cultures in the world that never wear shoes in their lives and the still place with the heel.
@@ToddMartinMD I’m not making an argument for or against walking with a heel strike. I have no expertise here and I don’t claim that I do. I’m merely making a suggestion. Do we learn to walk with a heel strike or do we adapt to a heel strike? Honest question.
@@marqpace Evidence that every culture throughout time and footprints from prehistoric man indicate that all humans naturally walk with a heel strike. People in heavily padded shoes do tend to develop a harder heel strike, which is a problem, but the heel strike is natural.
Front foot : vs : heel doctors listen to me. Im a small time sprinter. Select old Madras city hockey speedy left winger. Former
International umpire did pick me city team seen me play. I have thorough trick using foot or feet moves. Indian foot paths I neither use heel nor toe overtake past lazy walking crowds. The trick used is short steps quickies each foot on toe, arch & heel placed on ground. Drs. Martin, & Mark, mark my trick, try it out innovational. Another school days Italian priest taught me athletics, heel toe, heel toe method. When I bought my first spikes footware reasoned why six spikes fixed on toe area under the sprint shoes. Thanks doctors for knowledge we got by yr grand debate. God bless U Doctors.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you, Dr Martin - I agree with you!
My pleasure,
I'm skeptical of the claim that all observed barefoot walkers have been mimicking their observers.
What I think is most significant is that forefoot proponents, including Mark, make a definitive statement that if you try walking barefoot, you would never heel strike. This is demonstrably untrue, regardless of whether they are mimicking anything. All the forefoot walkers I have heard generally point to the fact they were personally having pain with heel strike, so they are assuming their personal walking experience is universal and are not in a position to judge what a proper heel strike feels like.
I'm watching this walking with the same headphones! Guess what foot strike I'm using
If this was based on a random likelihood of people, I would say 99.9999% heel strike likelihood. The fact that you ask the question makes it hard to guess.
@@ToddMartinMD I get your point on energy conservation, but I believe the debate explained well there's a spectrum to movement, and that we aren't using our potential (weak bodies and minds)
@@lokhistormborn4165 What is the relevance to that to whether it is natural to walk heel first? Walking is a mode of efficient transportation, and we evolved to do it the most efficient way possible (heel strike when walking to get somewhere efficiently), as well as being able to vary the way we walk for different situations (like sneaking up on something in the forest, walking up or down hill, or stepping over a large branch). I don't get your point.
If heel-strike walking is more efficient, wouldn’t it make more sense for robotics companies to have their bipedal products heel-strike? I’ve yet to see any demo videos of the most sophisticated humanoid robots where they heel-strike.
For one, the research has already been done comparing the efficiency of heel vs forefoot striking and it demonstrates clearly that heel striking takes less energy. So, we already know this to be true. Human biomechanics is very complicated and we are no where near replicating human gait in robotics. So really this is not comparable. They are not able to replicate the complex interaction between the upper waist, lower waist, hips, knees, and ankles, that allow humans to do anything from walking to playing football to doing gymnastics. So, what they are doing with robots is very rudimentary compared with actual human gait. Trying to learn something about human gait from what they are doing with robotics just doesn't work. They may have a hard time getting a robot to balance properly with placing on the heel because they do not have our complex reflexes. Most of the robots I have seen don't even have anything akin to a foot anyway.
Feedback for the moderator: Please let the people first introduce themself before starting the debate. Or otherwise introduce the people yourself and then start the debate. Especially on Grown and Healthy there was no introduction at all. Martin did this well himself but started directly with the debate and Grown and Healthy didn't had the chance because he had to start to answer the "attack".
Your point is very good. I still don't really know what Marc's background is. To be fair, Jared is not a professional moderator, just someone interested in the subject. So I appreciate his effort to bring us together for this debate even if it wasn't done in formal debate style.
I sensed an imbalance in the force as Todd Martin became increasingly frustrated in listening to crackpot views. By way of request can you look at doing a debate next time on whether we should go back to walking on all fours?
I don’t doubt someone will be advocating something like that in the near future
How were they able to determine the heel strike from the fossil records?
It was footprint analysis of the fossilized footprints, not the actual skeleton. They can determine the nature of foot strike based on footprint analysis which is very sophisticated these days.
@@ToddMartinMD which brings me to my main point are you just regurgitating information you've heard or have you done the actual study yourself? If the heel was determined to be the point of contact, how could a print determine that? How many of these footprints were analyzed to draw that connection that all pre modern human beings were walking with a heel strike? What areas of the world were analyzed and who is the actual scientist who made these observations? Would you not agree that when landing on the forefoot could produce the same results as a heel strike when the heel follows through ? Which would mean these prints are not a great source to determine the natural strike of the foot.
@@ToddMartinMD I'd like to hear your response Doctor
Here is a video of the city you discussed. It is hard to catch people taking more than a few steps, but you can definitely see at 25:40 and 22:12 and there are some other spots. czcams.com/video/1DkSXU7TAPo/video.htmlsi=ya4Aup_Sz-u2N03n
Regarding am I regurgitating stuff I have heard-I have my own complete movement system that I developed based on over a decade of analysis of Tai Chi movement, dance, normal gait analysis, and my knowledge of medicine and anatomy. I am definitely not regurgitating stuff I have just read. But, everything I teach is also consistent with what is understood to be correct human walking technique as studied in any physical therapy, podiatry, or medical school in the world. Regarding the footprints, I am not a forensic footprint specialist, but this is a well understood field of forensics that is used in police departments and by anthropologists around the world. So, when forensic footprint specialists agree that the footprints (which were made by multiple early humans in Tanzania 3.5 million years ago), I trust their scientific statement. You can look up the Laetoli Footprints. Footprint experts are able to tell you nearly everything about a persons gait by their footprints. This is accepted in criminal court as a hard science. So when they say you can tell it is a heel strike, its a heel strike.
They are mixing things up, running or carrying heavy load is not the same as regular walking at all, apples with oranges.
Exactly. Some people comment that I am wrong and then give information about running technique. When I ask them about evidence referring to walking, they generally disappear and don't reply back.
all I know is when I walk Mark Hendriks forefoot style for 30 minutes once or twice a week for a month, my glutes look very beautiful now.😀
First of all, I would doubt that. Walking forefoot first is not a great glute workout. If it was that good of a glute workout, it would just prove how stupidly inefficient it is. Second, if you really wanted to shape your glutes, you would just do squats or walk uphill normally. Walking uphill is a great glute workout because you have to lift the body up against gravity. Stairs are also good. Both would definitely be a better glute workout than walking forefoot first.
@@ToddMartinMD you can doubt it. But its been a blessing to me ❤. I enjoy forefoot strides. My glutes have nicely developed with only walking this way for a month.
@@LS-ii3fy Best of luck.
@@LS-ii3fy If you are using it as an exercise, there is nothing wrong with that. It really has nothing to do with whether or not that is the natural way to walk, which is the only point of the video.
Look at ancient foot wear it was all minimalist! Leather wrapped around the foot basically. Ancient foot prints in rock...barefoot.
Yes, of course. This isn't a debate about barefoot walking or minimalist footwear, all which are great. It's about forefoot vs heel first. So, I am not sure what your point is.
@@ToddMartinMD my point is if ancients wore minimalist footwear than heal strike for miles days on end maybe unlikely....
Our foot wear today the heals getting bigger and bigger looks ridiculas
@maryhurren6938 People barefoot walk heel first all day long all over the world even today. People in many cultures still live in what would be considered minimalist sandals and spend all day heel striking. If you are suggesting people in sandals don’t heel strike when walking miles a day, surely you could find some evidence to show that. Please post if you find it.
@maryhurren6938 I am not a fan of heavily padded modern footwear, which mostly is targeted to runners, but that doesn’t tell us anything about normal walking form.
@@ToddMartinMD I think grown and healthy makes some very compelling instances with the muscles and natural form of the human anatomy working together as he cites. Time will tell on this one I guess. It's interesting that people are plagued with foot knee hip back joint problems now a days and yet I bet that wasn't the case few hundred yrs ago as they walked everywhere and there was no orthotics and podiatry etc...
look at a footprint and observe the thickness of skin around the load bearing areas of the foot. even in newborns...we are designed to bear weight in the heel from the day we come out the womb. i'd argue a lot of the foot injuries, knee injuries, back injuries come from overstriding and poor movement strategies from the hips and core...we're a sitting society with tight hips, backs and weak core. all have to optimize to reduce risk of injury. poor later hip strength results in knee valgus and over pronation of the foot, tight hip flexors can inhibit glute activity and reduce hip extension causing the person to rely on a forward to mid stance foot placement vs mid to back pattern. assuming you are not overstriding and slapping your heel on the pavement each step, a fast walking gait with a heel strike is perfectly acceptable. lets pay attention to what the rest of the body is doing
I agree. Problems come from incorrect patterns of movement in the rest of the body, not the heel strike.
In my opinion, I don't think the way you walk is the cause of the problems people are facing. I have seen people walk effectively placing weight on their heel, or the balls of the feet or even along the outside. So long as the arch structure remains strong but flexible, I don't think people will have problems. I have walked both ways, and both feel pretty natural. When it comes to the issues people face, I think it has to do with footwear. We are taught to wear shoes that "support" the arch by adding a pad in the middle of the shoe(which makes no sense because any engineer will tell you thats not how you support an arch), not to mention the shoes unnaturally taper towards the toes. I came across many videos of barefoot shoes, and initially I figured they were just a fad.. but after hearing a lot of the arguments for them I think we probably should be stepping back into a more minimalist shoe from the get go, from childhood, in order to properly strengthen the arch and foot. I think humans had a great idea covering the feet, you never know what you could step on and that can be dangerous. But I think we overcorrected and it has been causing people problems for decades if not centuries and we've just accepted that its apart of getting old rather than improper movement.
I think there is a time and place for both forefoot and heel-strike. I think both can feel natural and I'm not sure either would cause issues on their own. For the example of a hunter, he may heel-strike into a run if he spots prey but if he is moving slow and tracking I'd imagine he'd be using more forefoot due to its ability to reduce noise and its more careful. I think the answer is very much that we are meant to use both depending on the circumstances.
I agree with this. I think people would be much better of in minimalist footwear from an early age as they develop their walking patterns. I also have never stated that walking forefoot would cause pain. It is just not the natural gait for traveling, especially any distance requiring any speed and efficiency. There are of course places and times where we can forefoot strike, which I point out in my long video discussion on the subject. But if you are planning on walking any distance, it would be very inefficient to do it with the forefoot. I also do think peoples pain issues are coming from the way they walk, and this may be significantly related to their shoes, It comes in more than one form. Flip flops as regular footwear cause almost everyone who uses them to walk duckfooted, and this does lead to pain. I see it all the time in my practice. People who wear heavily padded shoes also have an issue because they may walking incorrectly by leaning forward, over-striding, or other issues that would be obvious and avoided if walking barefoot or in minimalist shoes. But it is ultimately the walking that causes the problem, not the shoe. Of course very high heels with very narrow toes for fashion are bad all over, but most people already understand this. The problem for people who already have foot pain because of the way they walk is that suddenly removing the cushion can be counterproductive because they are over-pronating and misaligning their joints and they aren't going to suddenly fix it by taking away the arch supports. So they may get worse before they have a chance to get better.
**We take the path of least work, that doesn’t mean it’s the best path**
Heel striking is more energy efficient. Which would explain why a lot of people end up doing it. However it disperses impact forces to areas of the body not as capable of absorbing those impact forces. Even if the argument is made that it does use all muscles, then it can be argued that it may not be in the most optimal manner for the purpose of optimal force dispersion.
Outer edge forefoot striking is more efficient at absorbing impact forces to areas of the body that are much more capable/ designed to take those forces, in a manner that better utilizes the muscles to disperse the forces.
To be clear, either strike is not reducing impact force the body is experiencing, however what I’m saying is that one manner of striking can be more optimal for dispersing impact forces to where it best is capable.
At worst, we are not reducing amount of injury with either strike, however we can choose the most optimal kind of injury to experience depending on which strike is used. There are kinds of injuries that our bodies are more better equipped to healing from.
So if you want to take a chill low energy/ pace stroll then heelstrike (the correct way), but if you’re going to be moving in a relatively faster pace for completing everyday activities out and about then forefoot striking to disperse the relatively high impact forces your body would be experiencing from the faster pace would be optimal *(assuming energy isn’t an issue, which isn’t for most people since nowadays we have quick access to food and water).
Also, It makes sense why our ancestors seemingly heelstriked. Their energy expenditure was an important thing for them to worry about since obtaining food and water was much more difficult to come by. And since heel striking is more energy efficient it would make sense for them to walk that way more often than not.
But again, since that isn’t an issue for most people in today’s age, we have the luxury to shift our focus elsewhere such as optimal force dispersion.
Thanks for your points. My big issue is with the idea that a few people are promoting that heel striking is not natural and only the result of modern footwear. As you acknowledged somewhat, heel strike has always been used by us an our ancestors and is a survival benefit when caloric expenditure is important. You understate when you say that a lot of people heel strike. For practical purposes, everyone heel strikes. I observe a lot and in a year I may see one person forefoot striking, and usually they are clearly disabled. So the big questions is, why would you try to change that? It comes down to people walking incorrectly who end up with issues. My recommendation is to learn how to walk the more efficient heel strike way that everyone does, but do in correctly, rather than trying a wholesale change in your body mechanics that has no proven benefit. If you have a study that shows a benefit, let me know.
@@ToddMartinMD I agree, people should learn how to heelstrike the proper way. I would also agree heelstriking is natural depending on the situations people find themselves in. It’s because heelstriking saves energy that “everyone” does it, despite food and water not being an issue for most people. Every living thing will choose to do what’s easiest to accomplish a goal but that doesn’t make it superior or the best option - all the time. People can choose to ride a car to get to point Z over walking or running, but that doesn’t mean it’s the most beneficial for our bodies. Which is why I’m saying that there’s a context for which both foot planting techniques should be used.
I explained under which major contexts they should be used in my initial post. I say if energy expenditure isn’t an issue - you as an individual has to worry about, then it would be reasonable to shift focus into a maximizing technique for optimal force dispersion. In hopes, to control where damage is more likely to happen if it happens. Why would we do this? Because our bodies are better equipped for handling and recovering from some types of injuries over others. It’s applicable in the sense that both foot striking techniques have been shown to potentially lead to differing issues (since we aren’t perfect, we aren’t always going to have perfect technique even though we should try to). Therefore, attempting to maintain optimal integrity of our bodies over a period of time.
So essentially we taking a precautionary measure by enacting a technique where it shifts the points of potential damage to places where our bodies are better equipped to heal from, when in a situation where you’re more likely to get injured from, such as fast paced walking or running where impact forces are relatively high as one example.
@@captainshockwave1 I think you would have to point to research showing that forefoot striking in rapid distance locomotion would be beneficial. Based on my research this could contribute to muscle strains in the calves and other areas. If you are forefoot striking for a purpose of sneaking around or some other limited scenario, that is normal. If the object is locomotion, generally speaking the most efficient means for doing locomotion would be the proper choice. I have seen no evidence that people doing long walks at a significant pace is going to prevent and not cause problems because it does take more muscle work, therefore will make people more prone to overuse injuries. I would only suggest someone try a change like this if someone were to prove it was not a worse choice than the normal way we already function.
@@ToddMartinMD I say it’s better in the sense that the kind of overuse injury potentially obtained from forefoot striking would be a better kind of overuse or misuse injury to get than the overuse or misuse injury obtained from heelstriking. I briefly mentioned in my last post that research has shown the kind injuries obtained from the overuse or misuse of both of the striking techniques. From there we can determine which of the injuries our bodies could more efficiently heal from as well as deal with. Forefoot strikers are more likely to experience injuries in muscles and tendons where as heel strikers are more likely to experience knee and hip pain. It’s for this reason, it would be logical to conclude that muscles and tendons are a much better issue to have your body deal with than bone integrity related issues. Simply put, our body can more efficiently heal and adapt from those kinds of injuries to a greater degree than the hip and knee related issues.
Dr. Martin, I have knee osteoarthritis. Is it safe to do heel strike walking ?
Heel strike defies the law of physics is transfers force the wrong way! All the points the dr is making about pelvic tilt and the rest completely rectify with the proper walker technique
Where did you come up with this idea. It seems hard to believe that the way practically every one in human history has walked would defy the laws of physics. Which law of physics is being broken by placing on the heel and then rolling forward?
@@ToddMartinMD forward momentum with a heel at a complete stop is the idea it’s a shock of opposite force. Watch barefoot professor testing! And also idea comes from me learning the correct technique and completely eliminating any hip knee and back pain after learning to walk again after a broken femur in days it all disappeared we are not designed this way
@@ToddMartinMD jump in the air as high as you can and tell me where your feet want to land ? That is exactly where we are supposed to land upon walking
İ feel forefoot stepping is more secure
So, you feel at risk of falling when you walk heel first? How old are you? If people are in normal health, heel strike is very secure and much more efficient. If you are walking on marbles then it would be normal to place ball first and move very slowly in that sort of situation. Crawling is also more secure, but not a better way to get around in a normal situation.
@@ToddMartinMD i am hemiplegic due to intracerebral bleeding, so i have not control on my left ankle touching to ground with ankle is extremely hard
Sorry to hear that. Certain health conditions can make walking “normally” impossible. Our debate is assuming people have normal body function.
@@ToddMartinMD thank you ibknow your videos are for normal healthy peoples , but i like your slow motion like walking style perhaps my brain want solve how to walk normally
Saying that pushing weight from the forefoot backwards is inefficient! It’s what actuslly sends the signals to your glutes to fire up like a engine to propel you forward. Practice standing on your forefoot dig your finger in your glute and use the forefoot to push up and backwards and the glute will fire! It takes no energy it’s like a engine Running itself not you forcing your legs up and forward to walk
Did you learn these ideas by watching CZcams? Studies show that walking forefoot first takes more energy and thus is less efficient than walking heel first. It’s a fact that heel strike is more efficient. Turning on glutes has nothing to do with walking at all. I look forward to hearing the source of your information. I hope it isn’t just Grown and Healthy or Bob and Brad.
@@ToddMartinMD no I learnt to walk wrong from watching videos like you share on CZcams including your videos. I’ve spent the last 3 years completly learning how to re walk an the biggest thing that stuffed me up was yours being completely honest. Learning the forefoot method correctly completely fixed me and got my life back
@@ToddMartinMD it takes zero energy if you do it correctly the body knows how to do it it’s all a generation of force that turns on glutes and completely removes any tightness out of mid area like hips and back
@@ToddMartinMD saying the glutes have nothing to do with it means you do not understand the mechanics. Stand flat don’t tell yourself to walk and lift your leg just push down through forefoot and watch what automatically happens it’s quite interesting. That pressure will talk to your muscles and kick you off forward through guess what the GLUTE
@@ToddMartinMD you are literally walking with the break on every time you land it won’t be fluid smooth and as efficient as it should be with complete forward momentum
Military people do have bad feet and knees, I'm a ex military man and marching is terrible on our feet and knees.
Are you differentiating marching from regular long distance walking? I think marching in heavy boots would be more problematic compared to normal walking.
No way !!!!
What are you saying No Way to?
@@ToddMartinMD surprised this podcast happened. It's a shocked 'no way' in a good way lol
@@roy6419 hmmm... I wonder who made it happen that guy must be a legend
Walking is in general incorrect. We are build to sit on trees.
Good luck with that
You can tell one is explaining in bro-science and the other real data. "Som Japanese people walked forefoot"
The Japanese have worn some very funky type shoes in the past that can force an odd gait, like the shoe blocks that have a wooden bar under them which was supposed to keep the clothes out of the mud. Where have you read that Japanese people walked forefoot, outside of any martial arts practice. I know I have watched many vintage videos of people walking in Japan in the 1920s and saw no forefoot walking.
@@ToddMartinMD I haven't I was quoting the other guy in the video as an example of bro-science. :-).
Thanks for the clarification. I haven’t rewatched the debate in awhile so I forgot some of the things he said.
Polio vaccine changed the way we walk? I hate attractive women with knees that bend inward, not them of course just the problem. Duck walking is often the effect of side foot acceleration, as a habit. Once the inner muscles get activated, like in a spin move in basketball, it hard to go back and De-activate the inner quadriceps, for a while. and habitual enough the body undergoes a morph. but whats the actual problem these methods are working towards solving? most people need their burst/strength. we arent all athletes who can tone down the athleticism, as a choice. so who is wrong, im not so sure myself. im a toe walker, its great for healing the feet and ankles. butgentle aligned heel strike walking is doable for some, and really hard to argue with when u see it done properly.
I think all the various patterns of walking are dependent on the variations in the patterns we use in our core. Whether it is duck foot walking, forefoot walking, heel-toe walking, dancing the salsa-you have to look to the core and you will find the answers there. The leg muscles are following the core.
First I was interested in the story of the footsteps on the front foot. I tried it but it feels so unnatural, you even have to work for it. I also searched youtube videos about nature peoples and they all walk on their heels to the forefoot. Dr. Martin is right.
Thanks for your comment. I have also done extensive searches for video on cultures who habitually walk barefoot from birth to adulthood and have found none that walk forefoot first.
Just look up the Tarahumara Indians.
You should do the same. They run midfoot first, as do most distance runners in every country. They do not walk forefoot first or midfoot first.
This guy sounds a lot like people from the low carb community. They create a narrative based on a mishmash of far fetched mechanistic speculation, attempting to overcorrect for negative modern day trends based on an appeal to nature. To be fair, you did a little of that too, but overall I felt like your argument was stronger as it was more grounded in scientific evidence and had more nuance. Well done.
Thanks Sean. I tried to create some common ground so it could be a constructive debate.
You are against low carb? I would like to know why
@@Jaredkprimalhealth i’m not “against low carb” per se, but for healthy individuals, the preponderance of the evidence in terms of health and longevity outcomes points to the benefits of eating a balanced diet which also includes foods high in carbs as well as fiber such as fruits, legumes, and intact grains.
@@Seanonyoutube I would agree that a balanced diet is the goal. Personally I think low carb is a great platform for constructing an overall healthy diet. It gives boundaries to people who don't know the first step to fixing underlining metabolic dysfunction. Rice and and wheat are generally low nutrient value foods that only provide calories in the form of carbohydrates which spike the blood sugars thereby leading to insulin resistance over time and impairing liver function, this can leave the person constantly hungry and thereby overeating because their body is searching for nutrients.
There are nutrients that are valuable in fruits, but alot of fruits now are grown to have way more sugar then they used to thousands of years ago. Our ancestors would not have constant 24 hour year round access to the amount of sugar we have now. We are consuming too much sugar whether it is from a seemingly "Healthy" fruit source or not.
The best fruits now that are realistic to what our ancestors would have eaten would be blueberries, blackberries and raspberries. Apples, bananas and all other fruits are way bigger then they are naturally supposed to be and this causes us to ingest a disproportionately unnatural amount of sugar. Which causes all types of dysfunction in our body, because sugar is toxic in large amounts.
@@Jaredkprimalhealth Lol. You literally used the exact argument structure which I outlined in my original comment. Basing conclusions on mechanistic speculation coupled with an over correction of societal trends combined with a classic appeal to nature. That’s not how science is done.
To test this theory for myself, I did a quick experiment even a child could do.
Simply stand up, and start walking/jogging in place.
I realize the pads of my feet were subconsciously striking the ground first.
So I thought, hmm, maybe my brain is being bias towards heal striking.
After trying again literally having to make my brain think about putting my heal to the ground first, I realized how 1) uncomfortable it was
2) unnatural it was
It's strange to me that healstriking is looked at as the normal/safe way to walk. My heal doesn't touch the ground first when i walk or run in place so why would doctors/business be telling us to healstrike?!?
My theory: ✨health decline = ✨profit
You are confused in thinking that jogging or running in place is at all similar to walking. They are completely different mechanically. Running with a forefoot strike is perfectly natural. When you jump in the air and push your leg straight down, it is always going to land on the forefoot, just like we land on the forefoot when we walk down stairs. But when your swing leg reaches out in front of the body, as with walking, the forefoot naturally lifts for a heel placement. This is a natural reflex that keeps the body in a vertical position and creates a natural heel strike and roll through which makes forward movement very efficient. You can't use running technique to determine how to walk any more than you could use swimming technique. The mechanics are not similar.
This original post here is a great example of how humans improperly use logic
How on earth is standing in place the same as walking? How is walking the same as running? And then you claim it’s all’ a conspiracy to make profit?
My god man, there is a whole world of standardized education around this stuff. I highly recommend taking collegiate courses on kinesiology
you are completely off topic, pay more attention next time before you comment on topics that matter to the public
🙋🏾♀️I reject being evolved from apes......... 👀
We didn't evolve from apes, but we do have a common ancestor. But the real point is that other bipeds (regardless of evolution) also walk heel first.
🤦♂️ Perhaps learn how evolution works before denying it.....
@@An.Unsought.Thought I'll wait for the video of you creating something out of nothing.
Micro evolution, yes. Macro evolution, nope.
Questions:
1) why are there still apes. 2). Where are the middle iterations of "evolution". 3). Why hasn't man evolved past this current form?
Based.
That may be the case for you.