Stealth Indoor HF Ham Radio antenna. 2500 mile contact first day on JS8CALL!!
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2019
- This is a very short video on my 10-75 meter wire antenna mounted inside my house due to my landlord. Works pretty well and very easy to do. I happen to be using JT8Call, but any digital mode would be fine. Voice could work, but make sure to keep the power reasonable.
Here's a link to the antenna I'm using.
www.dxengineering.com/parts/c... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
This is what Ham Radio is all about. EXPERIMENTATION and seeing how it works! Nice job 👍 73’s Larry de K7HN
Never apologize or put down your antenna. You did great for what rules you have to abide by. And good reception too!
I know this is an old video but good job. I never would have considered running the antenna back like you did that's a great workaround.
Nice Set up, the space you have isn't Really bad At All , It seems to work great being on the Qrp level especially your antenna Arrangement, and you have Configured Beautifully!! Thanks for sharing!! 👍
get a fishing rod and weight, go out during the day and cast over top of those trees. get the fishing line where you want it and mark both ends so you can find it later. I would also pull a heavier fishing line back as the antenna pull string. now a little night ops to pull the copper wire into place. I’d drop a ground out too or at least attach a ground wire to the ground prong of a NEMA-15P plug and plug it into a wall outlet inside the house. that will bond with the electrical panel ground. you’d have one wire heading from the window to the tree. I will bet money that no one will say a word or even be aware of your wire.
Did that before and well I suck with the fishing pole however I used light string and a sling shot and over it went. Pulled a thicker sting (paracord) and my ant is up
Josh, I also had an indoor antenna in my two bedroom apartment. About 5 feet over my head on 20 meters, but I didn't think to reduce my output power. I was so happy with my clandestine home-made, two-wire, ladder-line fed dipole, suspended corner to corner from my ceiling. In my first week I made about 50 contacts in multiple states. Fantastic! Until I began to experience sunburn type feelings across my shoulders and neck. I had a noticeably red patch on my upper back, undoubtedly caused by my hundred or so watts of RF. I immediately ceased transmitting. I was so dissapointed. I mean, it wasn't like I was using high power. Just the basic output of your average HF transceiver. And a week of operating a couple hours a day.
I still own my neat little 20 meter dipole, but it's unhooked and rolled up, and my backside healed, seemingly with no other complications. Now when I transmit, I'm separated from my radiator by at least my ceiling. And one more thing too, I moved into a 72 foot mobile home I purchased, and now no one tells me I can't any more. Be careful Josh. RF can cause cancer.
Great video and yes, it can work this way - I also had to run an antenna this way some time ago. I know this is an old video, but it's better to avoid wire angles less than 90 degrees or cancellation may occur. Also, if you can't connect a counter poise, use a 1:1 common mode choke to minimize RF.
That's pretty neat. Great idea for HOA. Good contact for low power and an indoor antenna.
Barry
Thanks for posting this. I am testing for my license March 16 and have been giving thought to my setup. I live in a development with an HOA so am also unable to have an outdoor antenna. But, my whole attic which runs the length of the house is empty. The roof is joist construction so it is not financially practical to finish it as useable space without serious engineering reconfiguration, thus nobody is ever up there. Plenty of space up there to run wire though and it won't be seen. I will probably be setting the transceiver up in my finished basement so I will be far enough away to not have to worry about RF exposure. The trick will be figuring out how to drop the coax down through a wall (one story only) and through the floor without disturbing any other wiring. Subscribed.
Great Idea and just about to do the same in my attic! I have nosey informing neighbors in my area in scotland and this will work wonders I have an end fed Long wire HF40 160-6M band with a 9:1 Unun... so heres hoping! thank you for the upload!
So glad to see hams making it work. My XYL is my HOA. 😆 So, I have to go stealth to keep her happy. I run a delta loop literally ON my roof with great results on 40, 20, and 15. Balun Designs 4:1 balun, and regular old 12 ga. housewire that matches my brown shingles. I have made phone contacts to New Zealand, Spain, Germany, Poland, Sweden, and a lot in the US. Admittedly, I run a Palstar tuner and AL-80B. Cool video! 73, Brett
I have never understood allowing a spouse to dictate rules of putting up an antenna. A loving spouse will allow what pleases you. You should object to something she loves to do and then start negotiations.
Nice work! Living in an HOA community myself I can appreciate your determination and creativity to get an antenna up and get on the air. My antennas are in my 20'x20' garage attic. They receive about 1-1/2 to 2 S-units lower than the outside 7 foot 40m Hamstick Mag-Mounted on my van in my driveway. That is another way to run an antenna and works quite well. Continue to keep the power down inside the house and maybe you won't loose any more hair...hi...hi! 73!
I am currently in between "senior/disabled govt. subsidized" high-rise apartment buildings, but in recent past a ran a Chameleon matcher rated @ 500 watts with a steel whip screwed into the top of it mounted on a balcony railing on the 3rd floor, with nothing but concrete and asphalt reflecting the signal. I did pretty good with just the transceiver anywhere from QRP on up to full power! My sub/personal contest is "stomping on base station running a kilowatt to 1,200 or so out"!
Another important note is that if you are using bare wire you will need to insulate it from the eyebolts and make sure that it doesn't come in contact with other metal objects.
I wouldn't worry too much about RF levels within the shack. For a good chunk of my working life I was working 8 hours a day close to a 3 million watt radar transmitter with the 40dB gain antenna a few feet over my head. I suffered no ill effects.
Very helpful Josh, and quite ingenious. Thanks for sharing! 73! WI9RHC IN Milwaukee.
cool! My IC-7300 has been sitting on table for a year! Time to get antenna up. I have a MFJ multiband vertical. Going to try to put it up on Condo Balcony SOON!
Always worry about peoples health when they say they are using an indoor antenna. Glad you mention the fact about RF and using low power to counter that as I would not want others to make this without knowing the risks. Good luck and glad you mentioned that aspect in your video it was the responsible thing to do. 73
Now I'm looking up at my ceiling, thinking. Hmmm 😁
Josh, you are lucky to be in a wood framed home. Many taller apartments are masonry over steel beams and plaster lathe wire, which forms a great attenuator. Many new 3 story buildings use sheet steel "2x4's" and again, stucco like your addition. That can also kill signal. Great that yours works! I suspect the weak signal digital modes help.(g)
I’m in a gal’ steel roofed house. Old brick building. I use loop antennas. Nice and small and I can poke them out the window and they work ok provided I keep them far enough away from the power lines.
At some stage I’ll need a more permanent solution, however I am on the air for not a lot of outlay and minimal impact on the house or the neighbors
I’m in a gal’ steel roofed house. Old brick building. I use loop antennas. Nice and small and I can poke them out the window and they work ok provided I keep them far enough away from the power lines.
At some stage I’ll need a more permanent solution, however I am on the air for not a lot of outlay and minimal impact on the house or the neighbours
Nice video Josh. I’m glad you put the disclaimers in it about EMF exposure. Great job there.
I host a CZcams channel to encourage people to get licensed as well as license up. I’d like to use this video as I’ve had a request for a “indoor antenna set up“
I think any antenna anywhere is better than no antenna nowhere.
I’ll be sure to credit your channel and put a link to it in the description section of the video.
Thank you again for a truly remarkable video and excellent ingenuity here Josh!
Larry
de K7HN
So cool! I can’t wait till I get my own HAM setup. Btw, A good free software to record your screen in the future is Open Broadcaster Software :)
Its a great hobby Hamzah! I wish you lots of fun with it and maybe we meet on the air someday. Best 73ś from the Netherlands, Ronald PA3GBY
Glad you mentioned the RF risk , many dont.
I rented a house from a ham that had a 70 foot motorized crank up with a 40 foot boom 10m monobander. Then a multiband mosley above that. And a pair of cushcraft 2 meter beams and above that then again above that a pair or 1296 beams. Then at the very top a 11m vertical trimmed to 10. An inverted V off the side. And a nitrogen bottle connected to 7/8 heliax. The whole thing was rotated using a prop pitch motor. This thing was insane. It would turn around so fast. It was a TV station engineers home here where I live. I've long since moved and he's SK now. Everything come down and parted out in an estate sale. But I could work anything on 10m with just 5 watts. It could hear everything.
I've heard of prop pitch motors before but not what they were designed for. Helicopter? I'm going to put up a very small antenna here. A 3-band vertical and a 40/80 meter inverted V. The tower is only going to be about 30' off the ground. As long as I can keep my radio happy and I don't bother the neighbors with RFI, things will be good..
Keep up the amazing work !
I am using a "magnetic loop" antenna as they are fairly compact, do not require grounding and intercept the magnetic field which is orthogonal to the electric field; in other words it ought to be able to see right through the mesh of vertically oriented steel studs although I still need to think about that. (*) 2000 kilometer contacts are routine with 20 watts using any of several modes: FT8, PSK31 and Olivia being my favorite digital modes. At 40 watts my DVD player turns itself on and off.
The loop is also handy for reducing electrical noise from household appliances. If you go that route beware the high voltage at the loop terminals, at 100 watts it will be around 1000 volts but a lot depends on materials choices. Do it yourself loops out of copper tubing is cheap and easy; larger diameter tube 1/2 inch for instance makes a big difference in efficiency. Take a 20 foot length of 1/2 inch copper tubing, squish the ends, drill holes and attach to the back of an MFJ loop tuner. It's good for 6.8 to 10.5 MHz or so; not a real wide range. I have several loops constructed. Tuning for 1:1 SWR is fairly easy once you get the hang of it. They are very sharp tuning so if you move frequency very much, like as little as 5 KHz at lower frequencies, you'll need to retune. A benefit of that sharp tuning is that it immunizes your radio from strong nearby signals that are off frequency by even a few tens of kilohertz.
For ARRL Field Day just take your loops outdoors and go for it! They don't require a ground plane and probably wouldn't even work with one.
* books.google.com/books?id=q_1PYh6PsJsC&pg=PA259&lpg=PA259&dq=screen+effect+on+radio+waves+vertical+wires
I'm in the same position in the UK. Renting is a big pain in the you know what. I'm considering getting a licence after being an SWL back in the 70s, but the nightmare of renting means I'll have to get a portable rig and go mobile. Thinking about a XieGu G90.
I am glad you're getting something from JT8 but really SSB is the one to use, all those Digital modes are ok, you could use a coathanger and get the same results.
Hi thanks for the information Best Regards Tim
Beautiful! I too had to make do with a dipole out on balcony for the 10m band. Not ideal but it does the job. Thanks for sharing your setup! 73, 2E0LUP
Me: "Hey honey, I'm going to tack up a 60 ft wire in our living room OK?"
Wife:
My wife was cool with it. She knows Ham Radio is my hobby, we have that one room set aside for all my crap, and it's ok. The rest of the house is her domain and I"m not allowed to be putting up antennas there. This was just an idea for those people who want to get on HF and can't put up an antenna outside. For me it worked, for others it won't.
While these "end fed" antennas work much better outdoors, I too have had some luck using mine indoors. Made 2 contacts over 1000 miles away on 20m last field day with mine indoors. They could hear me fine.
Nice set up .
You could make a simple ground wire that runs from the antennae to the screw that holds on the cover plate on an electrical outlet.
I'm sure being several stories up probably helps. I f u were on the ground floor ur results might not be as good. Also u're turning the antenna back on itself which decreases efficiency, but u probably would've had to so in any case. It's nice that Stealth makes this!
You should try SSB. I I’ve up 12 Stories and can only have indoor antennas for all the bands I work, which in HF (SSB), All mode VHF, UHF. I try regardless because I make a lot of the contacts I try.
I live on the ground floor of a three-storey apartment building, and the way my building is constructed, it acts as a Faraday cage on frequencies below 30 MHz. Plus there is a *lot* of RF noise on HF within my building, almost completely blotting out signals like WWV.
Same here, below 30 MHz receiving is barely audible at my place so transmit would be useless if I cannot hear. Near the window, UHF & VHF is possible, but that is not helping on HF. I tried wire dipole and also a loop antenna inside too. I'm sure it's the building construction material.
living in a "cubby hole condo", this presents an answer to my being able to be to any degree active once I get my license...
Love that RF in my dental work! Yum Yum.
Any non linear connections to a nerve and it might demodulate the signal in your head. Voices from AM or what sounds like a bee committing suicide from SSB.
Newbie here wanting to maximize the reception on the rtl-sdr that I'm eagerly awaiting delivery on today! :-D So antenna direction changes don't matter, it's just end-to-end length of the wire? I've got an old spool of THHN wire sitting around from the previous house owner and my upstairs has a straight shot between curtain rods on opposite walls. Would running a wire back and forth between the curtain rods be any more effective than just a single wire across the stretch?
Im putting a 7.6 meter 24feet aerial in our bed room my base chest of drawer with my ss9900 and my power pack and stuff on cant wait
If there is a cutter/down spout on your house you might be able to connect a small wire to some part of the system.
Lived in an apart for two years. I was on the corner unit and was able to connect to the down spout. I had to use an external ATU but it worked well for me.
Best of luck & good DX
wd4dda
This hilarious! This is absolutely stealth if you are outside but not very STEALTH on the inside! I bet that if you ever bring a woman home they are impressed!
Oh sure with a digital mode. The coax shield acts like a partial ground. Wire antennas and a 9:1 unun is a great setup.
Sure.. lol! I've been working Single sideband for most of my ham radio endeavor I guess, and I want to work 40 meters on a very similar antenna set up, with no mare than a 100 watts output. Think that would be okay RF-wise in a 1 bedroom apartment in a brick and mortar building? Please get back to me ASAP with a response.
03:40 "To much RF is unhealthy thing, so i've been using..." SPF 5000.
Do you find the antenna more directional? My long wire antenna has a pipeline to Europe, S. America, Caribbean and Africa. It won’t work going west and north of my location. I’m on the east coast.
I like the indoor antenna idea. I’m getting ready for my first foray into HF with a Kenwood TS 430s. I own my home, a large Victorian. Climbing around on the roof isn’t going to happen (25+’ from the ground just to the eaves). But I have a huge, unoccupied attic space. I wonder how that setup would work there. I could put just about any antenna up there, dipole, end fed, ground plane. Definitely something to think about it
Take a look on youtube. You'll find many people who get excellent results from attic mounted antennas. Good luck!
Hi Josh, nice results with that setup! Seems to meet your requirements (good results, stealth, etc). I have a question about that 9:1 balun from Chameleon… do you have a link to it, or know the name they sell it by? It looks a lot like the matching unit in the EMCOMM II but they say that one is a 5:1
As for getting coax outside the house, if you wanted to… I have a temporary outdoor antenna I’m testing and have run coax through the window just opening it that 1/4” that’s necessary. I fill the gaps (for bugs and heat loss) with air conditioner insulation. Cutting it to fit, it would take some direct looking to see the window is ever so slightly open.
I put a link to a stand along 9:1 balun where you supply the wire or the 9:1 kit that comes with 60 feet of wire. Wire is cheap and that is the way I would go. There is no magic to the wire that came with the kit. I bought it because I didn't know better.
That is the radio I want to get that 7300 is awesome
good job
Just curious , what's your swr like . my setup consist of a 1 to 1 balun center feed dipole 50 feet per leg 15 feet off the ground . btw i am getting swr less then 2 from 30 meters to 6 meters
Icnirp and fcc will love you 😂
I checked Chameleon website and it is a 5:1 transformer, not 9:1. All the best.
I am getting ready to set up my first HF shack, and plan on using a hidden antenna setup, hence my watching this video. Maybe I missed something or didn't understand clearly: is this antenna suitable for ALL modes of transmission or just for data? I understand you were transmitting on a low power to reduce the risk of RF exposure, but I'm planning on installing my antenna in the attic space over the garage. By pushing more power through it, say 50 watts or more (?), will this antenna set up work for voice as well? Also, I'm curious: since your antenna was triangular shaped in how it was strung, does it favor one particular direction over the others?
My antenna wasn't meant to be directional and if it was I can't say in which direction it would have had the most gain. My goal was just to get an antenna up that worked and could be tuned to work with the radio. Triangular is not the optimal shape for an antenna, but it allowed me to have an antenna that worked, but was still stealth. Pushing a little more power would help the output. I think you'll find many videos on putting antennas in attics. We couldn't do that, but seems like it's worth a try. When band conditions are good you can talk to the world with 5 watts and a compromised antenna, but when band conditions are bad you can be running 1000 watts and have a great antenna, but still not be able to make contacts. Do the best you can with any antenna and get started with HF. If you want to improve later, then you can. But just get started. It's fun to experiment and the more you use it the more ideas you'll have for improving it.
Awesome
Josh. What is that round ring about a foot or so from the feed point off the balun? Did that come with the antenna you bought? I live in a HOA and all my studs in the house are metal which kills my reception with an inside antenna. I have plenty of room in my attic over the garage and this may do the trick for me. No metal up in the attic.
Yes, the ring came with the antenna wire. I'm not 100% sure what it is. It looks like a toroid core, possible used to make sure there's no RF coupling when using another wire to help hand the antenna. Not sure, but there's one on either end of the wire.
Chokes of some kind are often used on unbalanced antennas to prevent RF from traveling back into the radio, your hands and body, etc. Here's a resource on screening as for instance from steel studs in the walls. The implication is that because they are vertical, they will screen vertically oriented elecric field waves but not their corresponging magnetic waves so a loop antenna with the loop vertical intercepts, and generations, horizontal magnetic waves and will go through the studs with little interference. It can also talk to vertically oriented antennas nearby and for DX the polarization tends to rotate anyway so it will work even in that circumstance. I've gotten 3000 km through the metal studs in my walls using digital mode such as FT8 and about 40 watts using a loop antenna.
books.google.com/books?id=q_1PYh6PsJsC&pg=PA259&lpg=PA259&dq=screen+effect+on+radio+waves+vertical+wires
you may try 20 and 40M microvert antenna. hitting asia with a meter aand half antenna.
This may be dumb... could you ground to the grounding prong in an outlet ? I’m curious for a setup too
That is not a dumb question. Grounding is one of the most complex topics for new Hams. There is RF grounding and electrical grounding. The station is electrically grounded with the 3rd prong on the plugs. The RF ground isn't really possible from the second floor. An RF ground should go to a grounding rod, but needs a very short lead. One solution that I haven't tried is to use an artificial ground and MFJ makes one. I wasn't having any problems especially at low power so it wasn't an issue for me. Not to say that my station might have worked better if I could have gotten an RF ground for it. Good luck!
Are you concerned with RF exposure? How do you minimize it? I live in an HOA and have thought about doing this but didn’t know if it would be fine.
There is a chart in the ARRL handbook concerning what is considered safe.
you are surrounded by RF 24 hrs a day from all sorts of radio radar etc, whether you are a radio ham or not.
Run your coax through the chicken wire wall through the doorway and run full 100 watts.
Just put the radio as far from the antenna as you can
Possible to put some wire up outside along the eaves stealthfully?
The problem is getting the coax outside the house without drilling a hole in the wall.
What about radiant barrier on the roof?
Not sure if anyone mentioned, but why use a metal eyelet to hold the antenna around the moulding? Antenna should not touch metal. Was there a specific reason that was done?
I used metal eyelets because I couldn't find any made out of wood. I don't think the eyelets had any effect on the antenna. They weren't large enough to change the resonance much. I like the way you are thinking, but all I can say is that setup worked. Have a great day.
Interference? RFI? EMC?
Now time to try a QSO westward 😂
Use 5 watts and your golden, sure it takes longer to snag a qso but 5watts is quite safe to be near. I use a mag loop indoors at 5watts
Always wanted to try a mag loop, but can never seem to find myself a suitable capacitor for making one.
I bought the linked antenna and installed it as you did but in a 10X20 room, with no ground and no counterpoise other than the coax. I'm getting nothing but noise mostly. I note that you referred to a 9 to 1 balun but the CHA manual says it's a 5:1. Have they changed?
Hey John, I think I made a mistake in the video. 5:1 is probably what I had. The noise is probably from lots of electronics near you. Maybe TVs, fluorescent lights, or cell phone chargers, one of the worst offenders can be solar systems. Try it at different times of the day. Sadly some Hams are just in locations where there is a lot of noise. Sometimes you can still operate digital modes when there is a lot of noise, or you can take your show on the road and operate from the car. I wish you the best of luck.
@@joshbloom9646 Josh, thanks for the clarification. I have begun switching things off, running on batteries, etc. I'll try digital soon.
Called a Cup Hook!
I always thought antennas like this had to be ‘linear’, ie straight. How much, if anything, do you loose in performance?
They no not have to be straight. Old wife's tale. Height is probably more important. This was not the optimal setup, and it didn't perform as well as a straight dipole up outside 50 feet, but it worked and that was the point. Anyone can put up an antenna.
@@joshbloom9646 thank you. Appreciate the response.
What is that knotted line hanging down at 1:46 ??
Would lobe to know the model you got the link don’t work
I hope that people understand that 100 watts of RF on HF does not hurt you unless you're wearing a pacemaker. Some hams really have to learn engineering practices. Just going outside you're getting bombarded with more radio waves than a measly 100 watt signal on HF and please I want people to learn how RF at HF frequencies flow around the body not through the body unlike the counterparts of microwave
Nice setup. Does the Camelion setup come with the wire or was that separate? I wouldn't worry about the radiation. The worst that could happen is your hair could fall out
Not worried about my hair since it's already gone. Maybe too much RF in the past. It does come with nice wire. Don't even need to trim the wire.
bloom thanks looks like a good solution
I will b having a 18ft thundepole half wave on outside of cottage the coax will come through the wall 24 inch thick in our cottage is pre drilled for tv the house was built in 1750 so its 270 yrs old the houses were built rather different then the walls back and front 24ins thick tv dude was pissed drilling through back wall
They are old weavers cottages ive in one of the oldest houses in our town now they may b a lot older.some date back to 15 81 i live in darwen lancashire uk built on cotton we got a lot from georgia and southern states
Wish I didn't have a metal roof then I would try this.
Use the roof as antenna ;-)
What about QRM?
Antenna will perform even better if you can get it grounded.
Is the only way this will work is if you use JS8?
You can use any mode you want. FT8 is a really popular digital mode right now. VaraChat. PSK. You can also do voice. But in my situation at my house the noise level was so high I preferred to use a digital mode so I didn't have to listen to all the hash. Good luck and enjoy.
HOA? I am in the uk what does that mean .
Home Owners Association - overlords of deed restrictions, rules and regulations in a controlled neighborhood. Usually intended to preserve property values (keyword - "intended").
try WolfRiver..
The hook is called a "screw hook".
I need this bad the link doesn’t work I want on hf bad
What software are you using?
Using the JS8Call software: files.js8call.com/latest.html
Nice! Any luck on SSB?
I have not tried my SSB voice. Conditions are so poor on the HF bands and I can't have a full size antenna that I am happy to have JS8Call. Although I'm told 75 meters has been ok in our area recently.
@@joshbloom9646 Try it, if you haven't already. I have had some horrendously poor antennas in terrible locations and sometimes it is so surprising what actually works. 73
Still flying the Mavic? 2e0gko.
hello good dx 73
ssb?
Yes, most digital HF is done with Upper Side Band SSB.
this works in houses built from wood. If you have a house built from reinforced concrete it will not work
my antenna is completely inside, hence my hair has all fallen out due to RF radiation 12" from my noggin'. LOL I kid
wow is it a 9:1 Bal-Un or an Un-Un very different. 73 VA2SOB CLAUDE
It is unbalanced to unbalanced so un-un.
Is this a kit? Links please
Yes, the antenna was a kit and I just now put a link in the description. Enjoy! This antenna is great because it allows you to get on all bands. It's not the most efficient antenna, but it's very versatile.
bloom awesome tyvm
Audio is very low.
Good to know. I'll do better next time. I'm still learning about making youtube videos. Thank you for the feedback.
All that RF into your body might help your hair to grow!
73
If RF helped hair grow I'd had a full head of hair. Maybe that's what high power amps are for?
josh bloom Sy Sperling Hair Club for Men
I hope your cat gets to go outside sometimes
Screw hook
In door antenna make you lose hair, lol
100 watts of HF isn't going to hurt you 🤦🏻♂️
Поэтому вы лысый?)
I don’t understand when everything i have watched there is RF energize and you are being exposed? Any commented would be great
Lower your power! You’ve lost your hair and your cats have become invisible