why are video games so self conscious?
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- čas přidán 16. 12. 2022
- Here's a truncated and oversimplified version of media history in the purpose of analyzing Al Pacino's appearance at the game awards, what a great idea for a video!
[if you're gonna criticize me in the comments, remember my main point is just to show that games are going through the same growing pains as every other new artistic medium. Anything else I say is just set dressing.]
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#gameawards - Hry
This video is right on the mark. I've felt for a while that games as a medium have been stuck in a sort of "teenager" mindset. Full of angst that it's still not treated as a "grownup" medium, mistakenly believing that the "child-like" playfulness of previous generations is what has been "holding it back", and shallowly emulating its elder siblings in a transparent bid for prestige.
Love this! It's amazing how we repeat this with every medium, as well as some of the fear mongering.
Bill Clinton holding up a Guilty Gear ad will never not be wild to me
Can you imagine making fuckin Guilty Gear and one day you turn on the TV to see the president of the US across the world heralding it as a wicked item.
i think the "games as an artform" debate has lasted 3 decades too long now, its gotten to a point that nobody should care about it anymore. its like you're saying that certain influential people (mostly in the west i think) care SOO much about it because its an insecurity.
oh yeah, it's gone on waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.
Just finished watching, another great video. Earlier this year, I worked on a big project for high school. We got to choose our own topic, and I picked the history of videogames. I didn't end up getting a very high grade, because I wasn't doing very well at the time, mental health wise, and couldn't bring myself to do everything that was asked of me. I did do a lot of research, and i found it very enriching.
Even though its a topic a lot of people have covered in depth before, the videogame crash of 83 really did mark a turning point in how games were made. During the time between the crash and the north-american release of the NES, the place where videogames thrived the most was the personal computer. And, a bit before, but especially after the crash, PC gaming tried its hardest to distance itself from what was perceived as the cheap toys that flooded the 2600's catalogue. That's how we get the point and click adventure's prevalence during the era. And again, like you said, they're not necessarily bad games, but they also don't play to videogames' strengths. They're often weak as videogames, and weak as stories. The platonically ideal videogame would be one where the gameplay and the story compliment each other in a way that's greater than the sum of their parts. No offense to them but I find it interesting they brought Ken and Roberta Williams as presenters for one of the awards considering that, while their company was founded before the crash, it suffered a fraction of the losses other companies had at the time. The genre they specialized in? Adventure Games.
Even though he's often perceived as another internet scream-y yell-y review man, I find a lot of wisdom in the words of Ben "Yahtzee" Crosshaw. I highly recommend his recent "extra punctiation" video series, where instead of covering individual games, he looks at the industry at large. In some of these videos, he's talked about a topic similar to this: videogaming's evolution and how it kind of mirrors that of cinema. One example of this is the open world. He compares AAA open world games that pride themselves in being as detailed and as open as possible to cinema's early obsession with filming larger than life crowds, and creating the biggest spectacle possible, with little regard to how unsustainable this was. The more detail you put in your videogame, the more places you can go, the higher quality the grass textures, it requires an exponentially larger amount of labor with rapidly diminishing returns. He has also, on a different occasion, coined the term "ghost train ride" to refer to the type of game you talk about in the video: highly linear games with "cinematic" storytelling.
But cinematic stories are not well suited to videogames. For one, the main characteristic of a videogame is the player's control. If you're trying to tell a story in a videogame the same way you'd tell a story in a movie, you're making a grave mistake. You can't predict what the actions of the player will be, and as such, the protagonist's actions can be completely opposed to the story and themes the game is trying to tell. The actions the player can take should themselves be the story. And not in a "choose your own adventure book" kind of way; the actions themselves should be the story. They should get the player thinking, challenging the way they usually face their own world.
Again, not to say games HAVE to be these things, it's just that theres a ridiculous amount of resources being put into creating videogames that don't represent videogames' strengths all that well. People who say they like indies above AAA games are often seen as snobs or elitists, but independent developers, people who create for the joy of creation, are the only ones brave enough to try weird things that only games can do. A triple A studio would never in a milion years have created something like Getting Over It (give it another look sometime as more than a letsplayer bait frustration game it actually has a lot to say). Like Spiritfarer. Like Undertale. Like Papers Please. Games whose gameplay do the heavy lifting in transmitting an emotional experience. And the game awards pretends to care about indies. They always nominate a token "Indie Game" for the main award, but everyone knows it never had a chance to begin with. The game awards, just as the film equivalent theyre trying to mimic, The Oscars, are nothing more than thinly veiled advertising.
We do not need award shows. We do not need the approval of film critics, or big actors. We don't need spectacle. We are special in our own way and we need to be proud of it.
always love your long comments!
I'm 4 minutes in, finally gotten to the point of how we arrived at the question in the title and I gotta say, this really is an awesome idea for a video and a great topic to talk about/explore. Excited to see the rest!
uh oh, that's a lot of pressure! I tried to keep this one short and sweet. This could easily be like an hour long video but I cut myself off haha
Video games do this weird thing that people just don’t seem to get, which is being Art and “Fun” at the same time. I feel like the more fun something is for someone it gets written off easily. Like a novelty. Fun doesn’t “mean” anything in our society, Fun is when you’re not thinking critically, or planning, or developing or being productive. Fun is a distraction, an unimportant diversion that helps de-stress and pass time in an enjoyable way. At least, that’s what people try to make this stuff out to be. Because we’re dealing in “Fun”, gamers and game developers are seen as wasting time and energy. Other adult “Fun” would be bars, casinos, “places of vice and debauchery”. Live Acting Theaters, Movie Theaters, and concert halls also get shown to be treated in the same way because of their “fun” quotient. A Marvel movie, horror film or the newest My Hero Academia animated film would be seen as “lesser” when movies like Babylon and Life of Pi are more “serious, thoughtful” films (though I’ve heard Babylon is still fun). Animation, too, once for adults, then becomes for kids, and now it can’t shake its “fun” appeal. Also animation expensive but that’s a different topic.
Basically though, adults having fun? Society don’t like that. And if kids are gonna have fun with video games, why should so much emphasis on “games as art” be constantly brought up? Kids “don’t get art” and dont “need” art, according to some people who really don’t get it. If something is too fun, it’s for kids who have time for fun. If an adult wants to have fun they get treated as socially incompatible with the people around them, which is sort of what the whole nerd uprising we saw the past few decades was all about: the right to have fun and not be judged for it (and then they became gatekeepy and judgmental WOOPS)
“Art Shouldn’t Be Fun” is what critics might say, but I wholly disagree. Here in Chicago is a museum called WNDR and it’s ALL about fun art that you touch, interact with, play with, immerse yourself with. Or how could I forget Meow Wolf’s House of Eternal Return or Omega Mart, two art installations all about dunking yourself into fantastical worlds and fantasy environments with secret passages and hidden riddles. That’s some Fun Art right there. Art can be fun and should often be fun, and until we get over our hangups as a society over having fun and enjoying ourselves, I’m afraid this topic is going to keep coming up again and again. Let Fun Reign Supreme.
Most my favorite works of art are fun in one way or another. My favorite movie is Chungking Express, and I'd definitely call that movie "fun." Thanks for the comment
This was a really great watch! It's always great to hear people talk about the potential of an art form! Thank you!
I'm really glad you covered this topic! It's something that has been at the back of my mind for a long time now. I don't know how much interest you have in the Metal Gear Solid franchise but I feel like there's really something there, specifically with Kojima and his huge love for movies. I don't know I just feel as if he respects movies too much, or maybe doesn't see the potential in narratives made for games (as oppose to traditional narratives with videogame shells). At any rate, great video as always, happy holidays!
I'll never forgive Roger Ebert for dropping that take and then promptly passing away. Let us prove you wrong!
But honestly it's nice to write about games in a time and corner of the Internet where everyone is on same page about this stuff. Of course games are art. It's strange that the most powerful people in the industry don't share that confidence.
You’ve got a real talent in making these video essays, I just subscribed and I’m looking forward to the next one!
I was honestly contemplating doing a video on this very subject, but you nailed it so hard and said pretty much everything I wanted to and more, phenomenal work.
Great video! It's interesting to look around and notice how much video games will try to emulate cinematic styles, the most irritating example of this being the dreaded motion blur and film grain effects that some video games have turned on by default. One thing I would mention about the video, however, is that I wouldn't say that voice actors contribute nothing, as for the games they're in, they definitely help contribute to tone and subtle cues to help deliver the narrative. I'm only bringing it up because I feel like voice actors put in a lot of hard work into the industry and should be appreciated! Not to say that games that don't have voice acting are any lesser, it's a choice that developers make to help form their game, but depending on the game, it's not always the best decision. Anyways love your video!
Voice actors are amazing! I like games with voice acting in them and I am so happy when a game has good voice acting. All I mean to say is that a game doesn't need voice acting to be artful, just like how a film doesn't need acting to be art either (documentaries, nature films, more experimental films like Man with the Movie Camera, etc). I'm sorry if I was overly dismissive of the incredible artistry that goes into voice acting.
I find the “it's capable of evil, therefore it's not an art” argument to be perplexing. How could anything that isn't capable of being evil be able of even expressing and dealing with evil, and how would that thing then be art? It feels like, if anything, this inability would be the thing that demotes it to pure entertainment, instead of the other way 'round.
I love how broad you went in this discussion. Didn't expect to watch such a deep dive on other art forms as well, and I definitely loved the positive and hopeful spin at the end with Elden Ring winning representing self-confidence for video games as an art form. Very signature i am error ending. Another wonderful video!
Is pong closer to art or sport? Does the artistic intent of it's creation matter? If pong is both art and sport, what other sports are also art? Many video games are now starting to also be considered sports (esports), but I can't think of any sport that is called art. Maybe the performance of an individual player is only considered artistry in the moment. Maybe ballet? But is ballet more of a sport or more of an art? Is it sport in practice but only art during performance? Does it require an observer to be art? (This isn't me being contrarian, I'm genuinely philosophizing)... so many questions!
These are interesting questions, takes too long for a YT comment to explain all my thoughts, but generally speaking, I find sports to be art, but video games, even Pong, I do not consider purely "sport."
Dunka dunka dunka dunka~
Very well exposed and narrated. Same old topic but with a different point of view and with recent examples. Good job and thank you!!!
Wow, what an insightful video! I never noticed this but you're absolutely right! All the celebrity cameos or famous musicians for the soundtrack are there to lend credibility to a medium that doesn't trust itself yet.
I feel like what makes me weary about calling a game like red dead redemption 2 great art is the freedom as it struggles to keep a cohesive “thing” it’s going for,, whereas a game like undertale which gameplay is less free and deep is a clear artistic piece with its whole “thing” sorted out
Stunning how history repeats itself and strives for validation! Loved this video!
i feel like a lot of the cultural stigma around animation has leaked into video games because of the vast technical advantages that come with using fully digital characters in them. every time i see a famous actor mocapped and perfectly replicated in a video game, i get the feeling that parts of the industry are just /so/ desperate to be able to make a live action video game. it all comes back to the self consciousness you talked about, but it also just makes me honestly kind of sad, because the technical limitations video games face have led them to be at the forefront of really neat looking stylized 3d animation. i'm absolutely glad that spiderverse has lead to 3d animated films becoming less homogeneous style wise (especially with textures.. my god), but i feel like it could've happened years earlier if animated films turned to take inspiration from things like video games or even stop motion, other three dimensional mediums with their own unique limitations.
this got a bit off track (i take the chance to ramble about 3d animation in film as often as i can) but. my god! video games have struck gold and yet in so many ways it almost seems like they're ashamed of it! mocap and hyperrealism absolutely have their places in games, of course, but.... there's a reason people find the "live action" lion king remake soulless.
Fantastic video 🤩
"I am error, who also believes this video essay was a unique piece of art."
What error videos out there aren't art?
Yeah, games have always been art. It's just the bigger world out there still doesn't believe it's a legitimate "art form" because politicians and parents who just don't get them. To them, it's low art and are meant for children and losers in their eyes. Yeah, but video games have become a billion dollar business, apparently outselling movies and music combined. Even the Game Awards pulled in 100s of millions in views since the 2020s. I know number should not mean much in the grand scheme in this context, but you can't deny that huge impact.
Gaming has become big, and we should be happy with that. Screw those skeptics.
You know, until I actually watched this video, I'd been misreading the title as "why are video games so insecure?" They kind of mean the same thing, but "self conscious" is a kinder way to put it.
Great vid. 👍
Well done sir. You receive my positive thumbs
it isn't just Gaming, the film industry is constantly seeking gratification from books by the sheer amount of Adaptations. Anime is almost entirely hinged on the success of Manga before it. It goes to show that Art (especially when being mass produced in an industrial scale) is inherently derivative.
Another banger
Better. Much better.
It's either the format or the topic or perchance a yerar's worth of growth.
Bet you read this one in its entirety.
lol thx
is the background music from super princess peach :00
I would also add that in your talk about animation and comics as starting out child oriented, you didn't include the complexity there. With early animation being more for adult audiences and there being more adult oriented comics that were impacted by things like the Comics Code Authority, though I'm by no means an expert on this. But I do think that the lasting idea of being child oriented or teen oriented remains.
Also funny how often new artforms get hit with things worrying about their impact on children or whatever, I mean they always say think of the children but, y'know, "Think of what art can do to affect a person's worldview."
Adam Millard sent me here. I'm staying!! cc:
Is that Hot Cyder doing a voice over?
you know it
@@iamerror Kind of amazing how somewhat smaller video game channels I'm fond of I recently discovered are collaborating.
I think its the same reason that legacy media doesnt take youtubers seriously
I don't think Art should be competitive, Fandom's butting heads over the fact their ideal game or movie won trophy/applause is antithetical to what Art could be.
Things don't need to be art to be valuable. My niece is not art, she's a girl. Basketball is not art, it's sports. Games are not art, they're games! They are valuable.
If games are art, or can be art, then only games that embrace its medium should be considered art, not the games that try to be movies (Sony and Kojima games). From Software games embrace gaming in all its glory. These games never stop being games to present their narratives. God of War has gaming moments and movie moments, and it's the movie moments that resemble art, leaving the gaming moments out of the equation. If you removed all the movies from God of War, then the game won't feel like art. Dark Souls has not that separation. It presents its narrative and its themes through gameplay, not outside gameplay.
Now, are you really sure Pac-man and Donkey Kong are art (or Barbie and GI Joe)? Ok, why? What's art and how these games and toys fit into the category of art?
The word "art" has a lot of definitions, but by my personal definition, which would take a whole 'nother video to explain (not because it's complicated, but because I like to be thorough) would include all the things I mention as art in this video. To answer your question, I am *REALLY SURE* that Pac-Man and Donkey Kong are art. Though, my point in this video not to say "video games are art, and here's why" but to say "the video game industry seems to want the cultural legitimacy of being seen as art, but the ways they try to achieve it undermines the claim, which is an issue most media struggle with if we go back and look at the historical record." Obviously the video is more complicated than that, but I hope that helps answer the question as to what this video's aims art at least.
@@iamerror It sure does! I have an ambiguous relationship with video games, if we can call it that, in which I love games as much an in some cases even more than books, music and movies, which are my three preferred arts. Under my vision, games are not art, some games can be artistic.
I think the same you mention in the video, games are desperate to get legitimacy. But where you bring up Al Pacino, I bring the whole "games are art" discussion. For me, games don't need to be art to be a legitimate form of cultural and valuable creation.
Maybe we are talking about the same thing, only we use the term "art" more loosely or more rigidly. In the end, it seems we both love games and respect games for what they are.
@@vagabundorkchaosmagick-use2898 yeah, games don't need to be art to be valid, but they are still art either way haha
Ayo drop ur letterboxd id
but what if I don't want to get letterdoxd?
(it's evelynn_k)
Aha finally I'll be able to know what to think of all those movies I've seen! /s