F-15 vs MiG-21 - The Closest Call, Lebanon 1982
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2021
- Most people interested in military aviation have at least a general idea about the 1982. Lebanon War that was fought between Israel and Syria. And most of them also know that the war ended in a major victory for Israel and especially its Air Force which eliminated Syrian Surface-to-air missile threat and shot down a large number of Syrian fighters without an air-to-air loss. But what chance did the Syrians have? Could any of them have shot down a much more modern and sophisticated F-15 or F-16? In two cases, they came close. One of these cases was already covered on this channel. The second one, even closer will be covered in this video.
A flight lead by Yoram Peled and Eitan Ben-Eliyahu, both of whom had participated in the first air combat for F-15 in history three years previously, was sent to a CAP station over Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. They then intercepted a pair of MiG-21s but some more would make sudden appearance and be almost fatal for Ronen Shapira, son of former Israeli Air Force chief test pilot.
This scenario is a rare one where DCS World actually provides assets that enable reenactment of a scenario without much approximation. The actual location and aircraft protagonist being available.
Source:
Shlomo Aloni - Osprey Combat Aircraft 67 - Israeli F-15 Eagle Units in Combat
amzn.to/3Tf3gXY
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Even back in the time of flying bricks ( caugh caugh) F4 Phantom going vertical was the better choice against MiG21, in F15, a no brainer, but Syrians always used their 21s in ambush tactics, few flying up as bait, plenty down on the deck prowling the desert floor... they knew they wouldn't win a turning fight against Israeli pilots, so they just bit their time to get a shot, put it in AB, pop up, toss their heatseekers in hoping for the best and get the hell out, almost same tactic Vietnamese 21s used back in their days...
True. It almost worked here twice.
Yup exactly what I was going to reference was Vietnam. However the main problem in the Syrians trying to use this tactic now is back in Vietnam this was used against Thuds and Phantoms. Quite a bit less powerful and capable than the Eagle.
Look down, shoot down radar on F-15 did well plus they had early radar warning
اسمعي لابد من تدمير اسرايل. وكل الابد
@@user-gm5wf8dm8m If only that were possible. Our job should be to contain them to prevent further growth and preserve the nation state to prevent their one world government
A testament to the F-15's ruggedness was an incident also with the IAF where in a training mission an Eagle had a mid-air with (I'm pretty sure) an A-4 Skyhawk. The Eagle's starboard wing was completely severed off. The pilot was able to bring his jet back to base. His touchdown speed was something crazy, close to 250 knots if I remember correctly.
True, it's a well known incident. And it was a Skyhawk.
I worked for the pilot of the F-15 you mentioned. Crazy story to hear first hand .
@@waterboy4056 Talk about a great cocktail party story. You've had an interesting career.
The pilot would go on to say he hadn't even known that his wing was ripped off, and that if he knew in the moment that it happened, he would've surely ejected.
I believe you but it doesn't make alot of sense to me that he didn't know about his wing. He was forced to land at almost twice the normal speed. Wouldn't he think that something extremely unusual was the cause? Plus, he knew he had a mid-air so he had to suspect major damage. Between there probably being other planes in the air and ground observers (including the tower at his field) there were probably those who were able to inform him of the problem. @@epi_dormania2273
It's amazing that you could re-enact not just the hits but the misses as well. 1982 air war over Lebanon is one of my favorite pieces of air warfare history. I'm not that familiar with DCS, so I'm wondering what missiles the MiGs are carrying. Atolls? We're they painted like Sidewinders in real life? I know that Atolls do strongly resemble Sidewinders, but the ones in this video also look similar to Sidewinders, paint job-wise.
It often takes a lot of tries to get it at least remotely close to how it is described in the sources :) The MiGs have Atolls here. It is possible that some of them had R60 during this conflict but I think mostly it was the older type. They were probably painted the same as AIM-9. Also, they say that parts were interchangeable between them :)
There were actually multiple eagles "damaged" (shot down) in Lebanon. The odds of damaging it over and over without a kill is low.
They are R 13Ms just more modern AA2 (also called advanced atoll) about comparable to AIM 9Gs
@@markingraham4892apparently they damaged only 2 F-15 out of 90 Israeli aircraft
I don’t know if they could refuse but extremely brave Syrians, certainly they knew a suicidal mission
That's true. Their chances were not great (end even before this war, they tried and results were bad for them)
So our Syrian Brave pilots knew that their planes were incapable although they were brave enough to challenge and fight to the death
@@raptor-syria4551 - Braveness alone could not defy the laws of physics.
They had no choice; refuse the mission and you'll disappear forever, accept the mission and you have a chance to survive if you eject on time.
The bad thing for me is that I was about 9 y/o at the time and completely oblivious to what was happening.
Maybe if I go there now, I could find some Mig 21 wreckage? 😁
82-0, as it should be. Syrian pilots fighting for a genocidal dictator got what they drsrved. Good riddance.
Nice work showtime, loved the story telling and the cinematic experience!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for commenting!
Great scene selection to tell the story, but unlike Hollywood, you clearly also take great pains to be accurate in what you show. Keep up the great work please !
You might be surprised to learn how many tricks I have to use to get some of these scenes even remotely close to the historical :) Thanks for the comment!
🤮🤮🤮🤮😪😪😷😷🤒🤒😖😖
@@showtime112 Love your videos
@@1olddirtroad Thanks for your support!
Love your videos, Showtime - factual and very well produced.
Thank you very much, I'm glad you appreciate them!
Again. another fascinating tale. But also so much info about the crews showing the remarkable depth in research! Keep rocking Showtime 112!!!
Thanks again!
The historic accuracy in these videos are actually quite good…, great channel👍
Glad you appreciate it!
As always, great job Showtime112.
Thank you for your comment! Keep watching!
Great video - from cinematic point of view. It really shows how some things never change throughout the history, sadly.
So, you just like the cinematics? 😁😁😁
@@showtime112 I like many things, but most of all I like your attention to the story and details - the effort needs to be recognized. 👍🏻
I only got to taste a little bit of DCS on my computer, but it was very laggy and about 0.2 fps on good days (1.2.16 works pretty well, though), so I live my pilot alter ego through channels such as yours.
Also, I'm only interested in fun aspect of the game - multiplayer colaboration being on top of that list.
But, that's OT. 🤭 Cheers!
Amazing stuff! And so beautifully directed
Thank you very much!
Many thanks 💕 for all efforts, amazing video like everytime from you all my respect for you and your channel
Nedjelja nakon ručka i izađe ovakav video, čista uživancija.
Hvala na pozitivnom komentaru!
Amazing work and attention to detail. Well done!
Thank you very much!
Great video! However; you mention Python 3 as the weapon of choice for short-range engagements, but 9-Lima Sidewinders are shown in the video. I found some photos of F-15s armed with the Python 3, but was curious if they were used in tandem with Sidewinders.
Thanks! Python is not available in DCS so it's represented by AIM-9L. There are three F-15 kills credited to AIM-9G in 1979. and 1980. In fact, on 31 December 1980, one kill was credited to AIM-9G and one to Python3. After that, it's all Python3.
You really do make outstanding videos! Subscribed.
Glad to hear it, thanks!
A very impressive reconstruction. While I know very little about the technical aspects of these air battles, I am impressed by your sustained fairness when discussing the two sides of a conflict.
Thank you for the very positive feedback! I try to be as neutral and objective as possible. But still, some find me biased 🙃
@showtime112 No matter how you make it, there will always someone saying you are biased.
You are doing a really great work.
@@Danko05 Thanks for that!
No one ever won in any war. Both sides suffered casualties. Many good people died. One can respect the enemies that had fought bravely and sacrificed their lives, knowing that that was the last time they kissed their families..... bravely facing certain death, flying outdated jets. Prayers to the brave souls of that war and Prayers to the families of those that never went home. May God, Allah, find the way to rid the evils from humans heart, so the world can live in peace and enjoy each other's company.
Who is guilty ? As of today the Syrian government still refuses to recognize the right to exist to the State of Israel. They continue to believe that Israel will be eradicated one day.
always well done and you never present something thats not factual as a fact you give the info from an objective perspective and say make your own decisions which I very much enjoy
Very good rendition, as is expected from Showtime 112. Afaik, the Syrian Air Force flew MiG-21Fishbed H & J variants (Izdeliye 94 & 96) during this conflict in 1982. It would be unfair to class these variants as 'obsolete' at that time, obsolescent would be more like it. The Syrian pilots were poorly trained and as we have seen on countless occasions - it is not the aircraft but the pilot flying it which mattered in the outcome. If I am incorrect, please excuse my comment and/or rectify it. I would love to learn from the experts.
Thanks for the feedback and opinion. You could say that the late variants of MiG-21 were not obsolete on some average level of early 1980s. Against most air forces of the world, they were quite useful But against the latest 4th generation fighters, I think they were next to useless. Not only in this conflict, in the Iran-Iraq War MiG-21 could only fight well against F-5s while suffering badly against F-14 and even F-4.
I just read about this incident in the Osprey book "Israeli F-15 Units in Combat" the other day. Great book
It sure is. I can recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.
I believe that was the day when one of the most intense air combats happened with modern jets. I was spending my weekend in the Bekaa valley at my in-laws and was able to watch the whole thing from the ground. All we saw was Syrian planes dropping down everywhere. They lost 82 fighter jets and none for Israel. One of the Syrian pilots landed meters away from us and got stuck on an electric pole until the Syrian army came and rescued him. It was a chaotic and scary situation to say the least. The air battle lasted less than 20 minutes for all that loss on the Syrian side. This story brings memories of the most intense moments in my life.
@@rafkend1422 Well, this experience must have been traumatic but then again, you had the front row seat to an extraordinary historical event. Thanks for sharing it!
Another really great recreation. Good history, great visuals!
Thank you for this positive feedback!
Great work, amazing how you use DCS to recreate historic events... 👍🏻
Thanks! It's a tool not specifically designed for this purpose :)
Very nice. This is the replacement of that old Dogfights series I used to watch. Someone should make an emergency net static object/unit, not sure if it is possible as just a community mod🤔. It would also be nice if those cables on the runways would work.
Thanks! Dogfights were the direct inspiration for this channel, I always felt bad because that show was cancelled after only two seasons. I couldn't find any emergency net mod for DCS. Maybe someone makes it someday.
This is the best video ever:D I have read about this dogfight in f 15’s book called Wings of fury (in kindle) pretty nice nice book though.
Thank you very much for your positive comment!
This are one of the only channels with accurate depictions of combats
Nice to hear, thanks!
Love your content!
Thanks, I'm glad to hear it!
As always great job 👌👍
Thank you so much 😀
I believe that was the day when one of the most intense air combats happened with modern jets. I was spending my weekend in the Bekaa valley at my in-laws and was able to watch the whole thing from the ground. All we saw was Syrian planes dropping down everywhere. They lost 82 fighter jets and none for Israel. One of the Syrian pilots landed meters away from us and got stuck on an electric pole until the Syrian army came and rescued him. It was a chaotic and scary situation to say the least. The air battle lasted less than 20 minutes for all that loss on the Syrian side. This story brings memories of the most intense moments in my life.
ECM matters...
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t : Definitely, you almost can’t spend too much money on it.
Nice video
Thanks for your comment!
Nicely done video
Glad you liked it
Just curious, but have you done anything on Nam? Great videos by the way, just found you and it's pretty dang good.
I've done a few Vietnam videos. Mind you, there's no map of Vietnam in DCS so you need a bit of imagination. Assets from that era are a bit limited too so I mostly focused on A-4, MiG-21 and Mig-19 because that's what's available. We will get F-8, A-7 and A-6 in the future.
Nice recordings! The landing looks amazing
Thanks for the comment!
@@showtime112 You're doing an amazing job! Lots of not so well known, yet interesting encounters are covered - the Venezuela dogfights for example. And getting all this to look right in DCS ain't easy. Keep it up!
Thank you, I was there at ground level and watched the down planes trails fall from the sky
Love these videos.
Glad to hear it. Keep watching!
Love your work Showtime
I'm happy to hear it, thank you!
Cool graphics!... How are these simulations made... time and effort! 👍✈️
Thank you for commenting!
Somebody could seriously make a mini tv series about aerial combat engagements like this that has narration and some music. Kind of like how the tv show Dogfights used to be! I'd pay a little bit to watch something like that
There could be a similar show in the future but I haven't heard anything about it yet. History channel cancelled Dogfights after two seasons probably because they could make more money on reality shows. This kind of a thinking is probably still very strong.
Simply AMAZING!!!
Thank you very much!
@@showtime112 My pleasure!!
Keep up the Good Work Showtime 112
Sure will, thanks for commenting!
Questo canale è una figata! 👍🍀🤩
Thank you very much for your comment!
Superb animation.
Thanks for commenting!
Very Good video and excellent points, alittle surprised that the MIG 21 was able to sneak in a firing position, especially when his wingman should of caught that.
Thanks! I guess it was an oversight by both pilots. Bekaa Valley is surprisingly small and it has mountains on both sides. That probably makes sneaking easier.
@@showtime112 Overall Good video, I was thinking of the MIG 21 tactics against the F4's. Because the RIO in a F4 definitely had problems with ground clutter. My college friend in a Intruder, wouldn't of had a issue according to him.
@@ronaldwatson1951 It also depends on the variant of F-4. Earlier ones had no look down capability. Later versions had it but a lot still depended on RIO skill I think. Not so much help from older computer systems.
@@showtime112 got it thanks
Ground controller: this is a suicide mission
MiG-21 pilots: ok
That's what a cool, analytical assessment of it looks like :)
Ground control was a radar hidden in a valley (not on a mountain top) and was completely blind as a result, not to mention the jamming from the Israeli side 😆
The poor pilots were on their own.
excellent quality..great on the eyes
Thank you for your feedback!
You always post a good piece. One thing I noticed is, several IAF bases were mentioned. Is there a source for the location of IAF bases, a good sized map so to speak. Thanks
Thanks! The mentioned bases mostly come from books which describe the events. Ramat David is actually present on the Syria map. Tel Nof is more to the south. As for other bases, I remember some book about Israeli Air Force which had a map of air bases but I can't remember which one.
Danke!
Thank you very much for another donation!
an exciting plot, directing work at a height !!! ++++++
Thanks for commenting!
Great reenactment of an amazing air battle! They say that "Every Dog Has HIs Day", and that looks like it was almost that lucky Syrian pilot's day.
True. I'm just not sure why he didn't launch all of his missiles. I mean, how many more times in your life do you expect the have an F-15 in your sights?!?
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Bad mistake the Israeli pilot Made. I’m almost in disbelief that he followed the kill down. He’s very lucky he survived.
@@showtime112 : I was just wondering the same thing. But I don’t know if multiple missile launches are even supported by an old MIG 21, I suppose not
@@steveperreira5850 They are. It's just an IR seeker that's completely independent of the radar or other missiles. There was a case in 1973 where a Syrian pilot launched all four missiles at a Phantom and managed to damage it.
איזה יופי שיש מישהו שמתעניין בהיסטוריית הקרבות האווירים של ישראל
Oh, there are many people interested in that. Believe me.
I’m not the biggest fan of the welfare and Grifter state of Israel, but I’m always on their side when they are killing off Soviet stooges, better known as the armies of Arab dictatorships.
Great Video and graphics as always,👍 👏just wondering 💭how you get all those events under one carpet. This was like watching some duck🦆 shooting the obsolete MIG-21 vs F-15... What were those Syrian Commander's thinking, sending their pilots against a fleet of F-15's, ? it's like a suicide undertake.☠ The IAF also had its Grumman E-2 Hawkeye Reconnaissance aircraft in the air, which teamed up passing information on to the IAF fighter fleets, so they also had their share indirect of shooting down a lot of Syrian jets. Syrian air force pilots are trained on L-39 Albatros which are nearly 50 years old.
You fight with what you have, not with what you wish you had.
Thanks one more time. It seems hard to understand the Syrian decision. Maybe it was a political thing. Maybe Assad Senior simply told his generals that withdrawal from Lebanon was not an option. Apart from superior fighters, Israelis were apparently superior in electronic warfare, jamming Syrian radars and comms effectively.
US pilots are trained on ww2 ish era F-80 deriviative...
@@user-qn3xu5ee3t About the F-80 Don't know where you got that information from 🤔? To my knowledge the USAF is currently using the, T-45 Goshawk which is used by the United States Navy as an aircraft carrier-capable trainer, and the Northrop T-38 Talon also a Trainer used for Military Pilots.
@@LockOnNow hm, yes, you're right, the last shooting star retired in 1997
Brave Syrian🇧🇩❤️🇧🇩❤️🌼
Perfect graphics
Thanks! Funny, this morning a viewer wrote a comment in another of my videos that said 'why is the graphics so terrible?'. Funny how people can see the same thing so differently.
Those Warsaw pact nations, all used the centralized air defence, the pilots most of the time cannot make critical tactical decision during combat, there under control by ground combat command.
True, pilots have much less freedom under that doctrine.
Yes they can, lol. And it's not like us/jewish pilots do whatever they want in the air
Did the IDF F-15 have the upgraded MPCD in 1982?
Not sure but probably not. This is actually F-15C that we have in DCS so it's an approximation.
@@showtime112 In DCS there is an F-15C MSIP II introduced in 1985 and in use untill late 1990s. With digital MPCD, NCTR radar module, internal ECM etc. Israelis used earlier F-15C from 1979 during 1982 Bekaa Valley clash.
@@bazej1080 Thanks for the info!
ACP.
Amazing battle
Thanks for commenting!
Комшија свака част на клиповима ,скоро сам открио овај канал.само кад би било на наш језик да гледам опуштеније мало јбг... поздрав 👌💪
Hvala na komentaru. Audio će ostati na engleskom, tako je dostupan široj publici. Prijevod postoji kao titl.
Can We have please F-15 vs An-2 !?
👍🏻
Thank You!
There's no An-2 in DCS, unfortunately. Except as a fixed object on airfields.
I remember this conflict well following this debacle on short wave radio BBC, VOA, Radio Moscow. RFI and many others. Of course back then one would try to form a mental image of this air battle but now you are able to provide this in vivid animation. I am no expert in aerial strategy, but back then I thought Assad should have sent his combat aircraft to attack the Israeli airfields instead of engaging in dogfight with better pilots over Lebanon.
Thanks for commenting! With the benefit of hindsight, Assad should have probably not sent any planes but simply retreat from Lebanon. But then again, autocratic leaders can never ever admit a defeat.
5:53
Direct hit on the front and still able to eject and ?!
Damage models in DCS are pretty much simplified compared to reality.
My gen of F-15. What an aircraft.
This is like Biplane Vs Monoplane
If it were a single engine, it may have crashed, one advantage of having twin engine which isn't talked about much
True. Many will say that engines these days are so reliable that you don't need the second one. In peacetime, sure.
How can you make this type of videos, kindly brief it
Well, everything starts with research. I read books or sometimes get suggestions from viewers. When I come across some event that might be done in DCS, I write it down in the notes. When I decide what I want to do next, I usually select one from the notes and then do more research. I usually write the scenario after that (the text I say in the video) and record the voice. The next step is to program the mission (or precisely, several parts of the mission) in the mission editor. Then I play them until I get the desired result (it can sometimes be more than twenty tries). I record the replay tracks then I go over the tracks and do video capture. This is repeated for various camera angles. When that is done, I edit the video. I go over the raw footage, cut the bits that I want, add music, transitions etc. That's generally how it's done.
I like your skills...
Where r u from
@@borunbordoloi7555 Thanks. My DCS flying skills are maybe average 😁
@@borunbordoloi7555 Croatia.
..odlično
Hvala na komentaru!
Shapira's father was one of two native Israeli pilots who flew along with the foreign pilots training in Czech me-109's when the first cease fire iwas broken in 1948. He survived that and then became the Israeli Chuck Yeager. In 1962 Danny was the first western pilot to fly the MIG-21. After a Iraqi pilot defected.
Thanks for contributing info.
The issue of whether there has actually been a F-15 loss in air to air combat is undoubtedly a fascinating one, and the most valid case for examination is probably the shootdown of 2 USAF F-15E Strike Eagles in January 1991 during the Kuwait War. The first occurred in the first day of operation Desert Storm, January the 17th, almost certainly due to AAA, while the second on January 19th, and this is the most interesting, because of what is mentioned about it in an Air University publication, Combat Search and Rescue in Operation Desert Storm, which describes in detail all coalition aircraft losses. It is contradictory, because it first attributes the loss to a SAM, and then to a MiG-25. What is however most interesting is that this is a USAF publication, in any case there seems that there were Iraqi aircraft around when this F-15E was shot down and there has been a record of aircraft losses initially attributed to ground fire, like Speicher's case, for a long time attributed by US sources to a SAM, while nowadays it is universally attributed to a MiG-25, while the loss of an F-14A on January the 21st, also attributed to a SAM, is now considered, at least according to the Helion publication In the Claws of the Tomcat, to have been shot down by a MiG-29. What is of course an open question is if there has been some unacknowledged loss of an F-15, which if is indeed the case, the by far the most likely is that it has been suffered by the Israeli air force, as the USAF's use of the type in air to air combat has been rather limited.
I know about that particular case of F-14 being shot down by a MiG-29, Tom Cooper who actually wrote the book you’ve mentioned told me that MiG-25 could be credited for this kill as well, but it was probably a MiG-29… either way it was an Iraqi jet that shot down the Tomcat.
I am also wondering if there were F-15s lost in air combat… The Iraqis for example claimed to have shot down one or two F-15Es with MiG-29s and Americans would always contribute their losses to a SAM…
It is quite possible that Americans and their allies are hiding their true losses… For example the Iraqis claim to have shot down an American EF-111 with a Mirage F-1, they even offer a serial number of the downed jet together with date (sometimes in January) and name of the Iraqi pilot, but Americans once again told that their aircraft was shot down from ground and a month or so later than the Iraqis reported (sometime in February)…
We also know that a MiG-29 was responsible for damaging USAF EF-111 and B-52, and another EF-111 was damaged by a MiG-23…
The Iraqis also claimed to have shot down an RAF Tornado on January 19. but the Brits told they lost that plane few days later due to ground fire…
So from “0 losses” reported by the US/Coallition we now know that AT LEAST two planes were shot down and three got damaged… AT LEAST!
But this is not the whole story… what about the alleged 35+ air to air victories that the Coallition claimed to have achieved? Here are some interesting examples:
At first, they claimed to have destroyed up to nine MiG-29s, but later they lowered this figure to five MiGs, while Iraqis themselves said that three were lost and one got damaged in air combat (all to F-15)…
One F-15 pilot (Cezar “Rico” Rodriguez) decribed his engagement with an Iraqi MiG-29 and how he was able to force his opponent to crash into ground… before that, his wingman managed to destroy a MiG-29’s wingman… Turns out, the Iraqi pilot in question was alive and well and later described what really happened - how he managed to pull his aircraft seconds before crashing while evading a missile fired by an F-15 which detonated and allegedly that’s whaf made Americans thing a MiG exploded… What is interesting is that “Rico”, the American pilot, said that he didn’t fire a single shot…
Not only that, but the other MiG-29 pilot which was shot down priror to this dogfight (Jameel Sayhood who on the same mission just minutes before brought down a Tornado), in his story said that F-15s targeted him with two missiles and after successfully dodging one of them with high-g maneuvering, he got hit the second missile and was forced to eject (breaking his leg and transfered to hospital by local population)… this is quite possible becase, there was an egagement over Bosnia eight years later in which a pair of USAF F-15s both fired two missiles at a pair of Yugoslav MiG-29s and according to both US and Yu pilots, one missile was dodged but the second one got the job done (this is because in cases of both Iraqi and Serbian pilots they were just to close to their enemies and had insufficient time to react).
The other engagement that I would like to point out occurred on January 26., I believe, when four F-15s destroyed, at least, according to official version, three Iraqi MiG-23s… the Iraqis admited the loss of two fighters… once again, before mentioned “Rico” was involved 😅 and if you think this is the end of his suspicious shotdowns, than you are wrong… let me explain: on March 24. 1999. “Rico” and three more F-15s entered Serbian airspace from Albania… Before that, a MiG-29 was sent to patrol at a hight of 3.000-3.500 meters over Kosovo (a province of Serbia that leans on border with Albania) and wait for the enemy… “Rico” and other F-15s were tasked with escorting German Tornados which were heading towards Pristina (a capital city of province of Kosovo)… official story goes that Rodriguez fired a single bvr missile which destroyed this MiG-29… the interesting part of the story is that the MiG pilot later found out that SAM units operating in that area reported to have shot down a Tornado flying at… 3.000 meters! 🤨 Now, while it is possible that American pilot was actually “the one” who shot down a MiG, there are reassons to believe that the MiG-29 was a victim of friendly fire, since there were three to four other Serbian pilots who flew combat sorties that have reported being acquiered by ground radars, and one of them even claimed he was shot down by friendly SAM (this particular kill was officially credited to a Dutch F-16)!
My point is that many of the US/NATO claims aren’t valid and they are proven not to be always honest… History is written by the victors, right?
@@flanker8724 Certainly, and militaries have ways of doctoring statistics, like not counting among the losses aircraft that suffered battle damage, made it back to base and then were deemed written-offs. In the case of the F-15, there have been acknowledged 5 losses in combat situations, all of them USAF F-15E Strike Eagles, 2 in Iraq in 1991, 1 in Iraq in 2003, 1 in Afghanistan in 2009 and 1 in Libya in 2011. Of these 5, only one, the second of 1991, looks like a plausible air-to-air kill, and it is interesting that its loss is usually credited to an SA-2 SAM, the same weapon system credited for the F-14 loss on January the 21st, now considered most likely to have been an air-to-air kill. I would however not be the least surprised if there has been some F-15 loss, Israeli most likely, that hasn't been acknowledged so far.
@@maximilianmax6996 I wonder which aircraft could be responsible for F-15E kill… you said MiG-25, but I’ve read on many accounts it was MiG-29…
The same goes for that F-14 Tomcat, it is uncertain wether it was MiG-25 or MiG-29…
@@maximilianmax6996 Btw, there was an American pilot back in 2021. I think and he said that during NATO’s bombing campaign of Yugoslavia there was another F-117 hit by a SAM, so now there are two known F-117 victims of Yugoslav SAMs…
God knows what else we don’t know about American and Israeli losses in air combat…
@@flanker8724 When it comes to the loss of the second F-15E in 1991, on January 19th, usually it is attributed to an SA-2, but the Air University publication CSAR at Desert Storm also mentions a MiG-25, I have never read about any MiG-29 involved in the particular incident, you can find this very easily online in pdf form, just search air university csar at desert storm. There is also Iraqi TV footage with the crew of the particular aircraft (Eberly and Griffith) available here on youtube, who when asked what sort of weapon shot them down, said they didn't know. As for the damaged F-117 in 1999, this is nowadays a widely known and accepted fact, although it did take some time.
What's annoying with these MiG Vs F is that the MiG never gets any chance of firing first nor firing back; like sitting ducks, it's quite hard to find any reason behind it.
These MiGs must have been abnormally underpowered and lacked lot of things for successful air fight.
It's actually very easy to find reasons. Inferior avionics, heavy dependence on ground control, inadequate training...
the mig-21 the superstart of the soviet air force in the cold war period.
Russia is full of puzzles, even the outdated Indian mig 21 is still able to take down the Pakistani F16
What game is it?
DCS World
the mdd f-15-eagle but in hebtew is (baz) in idf-ar. mig -21-fishbed. of the syrian arab air force.
Yes, Israelis like to give different names to their aircraft.
Pilot training is key for aerial combat victories. The MiG-21 was formidable fighter in the hands of skilled pilots. In Vietnam, the USAF pilots could have suffered huge losses had they not been highly skilled.
Any good explanations on why the F-15s have been so successful?
Superior avionics, maneuverability, pilot training, weapons, tactics, integrated system in which it operated......
Imagine been sent up in a plane dubbed "fishbed" as in sleeping with the fishies against a F15 you must be thinking "I'm going to die"
Most pilots flying it probably didn't know about this nickname but whoever came up with this designation could have hardly chosen a dumber one 😁
@@showtime112 i always did wonder how it got its name
When it lands...make sure the air speed brake opens lol
The shelters design is always my fanatisy is according to the requirements of the area temperature of the place Air movement etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc good morning and happy future ...
Did the IAF find missile parts in the Eagle upon inspection?
Or did a Syrian pilot claim a kill?
Because considering the amount of AAA hosing up at them I'd assume that was the cause.
Yes, I believe that after landing there was clear evidence of an air-to-air missile. I'm not sure if Syrians claimed a kill. Couldn't find anything about that.
Svaka cast bas su dobre rekonstrukcije bitaka jel bi moglo nesto o bombardovanju jugoslavije 1999. Godine pozdrav
Pozdrav! Zasad postoji jedan video na tu temu ali vjeojatno će biti još koji u budućnosti. Hvala na komentaru!
it wasn't a missile that hit the Israeli F-15B Strike Eagle multi role fighter . . . it was some of the flak that exploded very close to the right engine of the F-15B Strike Eagle multi role fighter . . .
You might be talking about another incident?
@@showtime112 nope it's the same one . . .
That makes a hell of a lot more sense. I had a hard time believing that an air to air missile hit did not destroy the F15
The sturdy construction of the eagle is unmatched ,I think it was Israel pilot that flew home with a wing missing...
True, one of them collided with an A-4 and came back.
More “Operation Mole Cricket” please.
The operation itself was mostly based on Phantoms which we don't have in DCS (at least not good flyable modules). But there will be more of F-15 involvement. And possibly F-16 if I can find details.
great video how many eagles were there to how many migs and what was the count at the end how many migs were shot down. I understand this is war and I fully support Israel defending themselves but I must admit I love aviation and fighter jets and I hate to see any loss of life as I get older. In that, some of the pilots, I'm sure, weren't able to eject.
Why in this video any flak in battle
The mig 21 they didn't see... How did that happen?
It's not that unlikely. You can't just continuously scan 360 degrees around, you need to fly the plane too. MiG-21 is quite small and hard to spot. Plus, they came under AAA fire which probably drew a lot of their attention.
This was the Peace for Galilee war. Are you sure it was the fishbed instead of the Flogger?
Syrians still operated a lot of MiG-21s at the time and many were sent over Lebanon to face the IDF/AF, if that's what you mean.
I thought you'd landed too far down the runway.
True. But it was supposed to be an emergency landing so it kinda adds to the drama. Also, there is no netting in the simulation so the airplane just runs over to the bushes :)
4th generation vs 2nd generation planes
Sejak dulu teknologi militer barat sering unggul dari produk lain.
Make it home alive and in one piece it's a good mission
Plus shooting down a MiG in the process :)
@@showtime112 not good for the mig pilot tho
Can you Do a historical engagement between Pakistan and India in 27 February 2019.....
And yes If any sources say that Su-30MKI was shot down its fake.... We had proof and we showed it to the world a couple days later..... The aircraft which was claimed to be shot down callsign Avenger 1 was showed in a formation with Avenger 2 with other mirages to the public and the story should start from 26th February in which IAF Mirages bombed terrorist camps inside Pakistani territory.....
Would be great if you did it
And BTW interesting engagement well Done , Keep up the good work....👏🏻👍🏻
I'm considering it. Thanks for commenting!
@@showtime112 My brother was flying CAPs in PAF F16 during that episode. The story of the shooting down if SU30 is real as far as the evidences PAF has. Indians tried their best to cover up the shootdown though. They lost a Mig21-bis and a SU-30 MKI, both to F16s. Only two Aim120C5s were fired and both found their marks, a mid range mi21 kill and a long range Flanker kill.
The SU30 formation was cut in half(2 to 1) and PAF has the relevant radar (disappearance of one of the SU30 tracks from the radars of multiple F16 formations doing AMRAAM grinds high above Kashmir, AWACS and the ground based ones covering the engagement zone) /communication (PAF was eavesdropping on Indian A2A and A2G Comm links.) evidences to prove this. Furthermore, the SU30 was shot down from a very long range and the wreckage fell inside the Indian occupied territory. Hence, despite having all the proofs, PAF reluctantly didn't pursue their claim with force. It was noted by intelligence assets on ground in Indian occupied zone, however, that the SU30s wreckage was collected by the Indians and put inside a closed aircraft hanger at one of the airfields nearby (Awantipura I guess).
Also, contrary to Indian propaganda, no Viper was lost as downed Bison had all four missile attached to the pylons (I guess two R73 and two other missiles).
Data linked fighters, AWACS and EW from F16s and DA20 played a vital role in the success of PAF.
Also, InAF shot down one of their own MI-17 Helo, an apparent case of fratricide.
@@showtime112 That might be helpful: czcams.com/video/J-vYtEqu1MQ/video.html
@@01maak Thank you for the info. I'm curious about one thing. Didn't Pakistan deny that F-16s were used at all during that event?
@@showtime112 It was denied initially, perhaps due to the fear of US condemnation over the use of F16 in the shoot down. However, once US authorities got to know about the success of the PAF tactics and the use of AMRAAM in shooting down of the latest Russian airplane, which Indian boasted to be the Raptor of the East (SU30 MKI), they not only did not object much but in fact silently expressed their happiness over the whole episode. After all it proved the ultimate superiority of their tech over the Russians :) .
🔥🔥🔥
Appreciate your comments!
Wherever you think, one thing is clear, Syrians were brave, I mean IDF pilots are top class,same with their jets, you have to be really crazy or really brave to fight against them.
What is name of this game
DCS World or Digital Combat Simulator World. The basic package is free and you have trial periods for paying modules Feel free to try it.
@@showtime112 is it is on ps4
@@tanayworld No, PC only.
I do not see where the glory is when a decades old fighter is set up against the most advanced air superiority fighter like the F 15
It's not about glory.
Tough matchup
This video goes to show why smaller countries need to use planes with 2 engine configuration instead of 1 engine, and that's why I am mad that Bulgaria is getting f16's and not some other 2 engine plane, like the eurofighter
Two engine configuration certainly is superior in situations like this.
If Syrians made coordinated atack, launching mass woley, it whoud much wors for Israel.
Plus look at the cost of Mig 21 and cost of F 15, you can lose five Migs for one phantom.
If your pilots survive is a nother thing.
Maybe they would have succeeded in shooting down an airplane or two. But it probably wouldn't have been a completely different outcome. And they might have lost most of their pilots in the attempt.
I'll see that Mig 21 and raise you a F15.
Something like that :)