Detroit Eaton True Trac - How they work in real life
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2024
- Detroit Eaton True Trac - How they work in real life, I give more detail and my experience after two years of operation. TrueTrac True Track Overland Jeep Toyota Tacoma 4Runner Off Road
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Finally a sensible strait forward video on these with NO BS... A big thank you for the Video. Cheers !
Thanks!
Great video! I also have Truetracs front and rear in my SAS’d Explorer and your comments are exactly what I experience.
Thanks! Except you rarely run out of wheel travel!
After lots of research, I put a Truetrac in the rear of my 2019 Tacoma. Good stuff!
This is the most informative video Ive found on the subject. They seem like a great option if you have an automatic.
broooo ive been looking for that explaination atthe 5 minute mark forever! thank youuu!!!
Excellent demonstration!
For TrueTrac and manual trans: learning heal and toe braking is helpful, manual e-brakes work for just the rear diff.
In my truck, low range 1st doesn't require clutch feathering so I can use one foot brake and one foot accelerator.
Thanks for the input!
I love my Detroit TrueTrac . Installed in my jeep frontend Dana 30 . I generally keep hubs locked to keep bearing grease moving in bearings. Love the use of 80-90w oil, T-150 n Hays clutch has no problem finding traction with quick depression of clutch pedal it will get otherside moving, in low range, I never had any problems in hi range on ice or snow. I only notice when down shifting and using gears to slow down, all four tires lockup , it'll slide sideways for instant as clutch engages, my bad habit driving. other than my heavy clutch foot , no issues, been installed since '91 or '92. since installed i have never got stuck in 3" of mud as before without it. didn't want the clicking sound on street or special oil for limited slip. Price of a Locker was more than i wanted to spend in frontend. 30yrs and zero complaints from me.
Very Nice Review. One if the best I've seen. I'm currently looking at putting a True Trac into the rear of my 2500 chevy. This is just what I was looking for... Thank you
You’re welcome! I made it because there wasn’t anything out there. 👍
Great vid; thanks. I just put a grizzly in my front Dana 50 and thinking TruTrac for my rear Sterling 10.25, for all the reasons you mention for on-road drivability. This vid solidifies my decision!
For most of the 1990s I drove my manual transmission Land Rover Discovery with Truetracs in both front and rear; I LOVED it. I conquered many famous trails in that rig including The Rubicon, Hole in the Rock and Dusty Ershim.
BTW, it's easy to put a manual transmission in a low crawl gear then ride both gas pedal and brake pedal with two feet.
Good information. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm getting a treutrac installed in my Z71 Silverado in 2 weeks. I live in Utah and currently with the open rear diff it makes it difficult to climb hills, drive up wet roads, and pull my boat out of the lake without using 4wd.
Thanks!
Thanks for the videos. I live the black hills of South Dakota and was skeptical of buying a ratcheting locker for the rear of my xj. Just seemed like it wasnt the right choice for a 50/50 on/off road especially on snowy curvy highways. I seen the first video and knew this was the right choice for me. Ive only had it for a few weeks and havent gotten snow yet but i cant wait.
Glad it helped, I too scoured the internet trying to find real world info and couldn’t fine much. One video I found was a truck in a garage with one wheel jacked up spinning freely and he would apply the brakes and the truck would move because torque was directed to the wheel on the ground. I also have experience with this type of diff in a car application in racing autocross. Cheers!
Nice video, good viewpoints and good editing too.
Thanks!
Great video! You are absolutely right about the benefits and drawbacks of a trutrac. I have found that you can entirely negate the issues off-road by simply keeping all four tires on their ground. (Duh.) this makes it an awesome pairing with solid front axles and long travel suspension. I have two in my TJ Wrangler and I feel unstoppable. They also work fantastic with a manual transmission if your 4Lo is low enough. Just put it in low range and ease off the clutch and let idle carry you through the brakes. (Or crawl control if you have it)
Well said! I have a Yukon Grizzly auto locker and a e-locker in my Bronco. That works really well in an extreme rock crawling scenario but most of the time I wish I had Truetracs as they are just there putting power to the wheels that need it. Thanks for watching.
Great practical video. Very thorough and real-world. One thing you could add: avoid any gear oil with LSD additive / friction modifier as they will be too slick to achieve maximum torquie bias with the truetrac. It's capable of 3.8x torque bias on standard dino oil; synthetic will reduce is somewhat, and synthetic with LSD friction modifier will bring it down significantly (AVOID most high end gear oils!).
When you buy the diffs there is an instructional manual with it. It says use what the OEM says to run. It also says use an oil with the smallest amount of friction modifier as possible.
@@starksexpeditions121 a lot of vehicles come with clutched LSDs, so using oem fluid would be an error. Mine didn't have a manual with it new in box, but it did say to their website, which I did.
@@JoelGrant Using OEM fluid would be an error only if the vehicle used an LSD. As you said not all come with LSD diffs, so you are generalizing things and not giving the best advice. I mean no insult nor do I mean to criticize you. I don’t want people confused or to make the wrong decision.
Use 80w90 gl5 cheap gear oil
Great review and thanks for sharing. I think this will be next update on my rig.
Thank you!
thats a nice looking expedition
very informative, great video
Thanks!
Awesome explanation thank you
Thanks!
Amazing video! Thanks
Thanks!
Really good video.
Great info.
Thanks!
nice work on this video edit.... very useful informations thanks
You’re welcome!
Great review. For my driving the True Trac is my favorite diff. I have them in all of my 4x4s. The Detroit Locker is probably more durable, but kind of a headache on the street.
Why are they a headache on street ?
@admitmohan depending on the application they can be noisy and a bit harsh due to engagement when making a turn while on a surface that offers little slip (dry pavement).
Wow, I'm impressed!!
Thanks!
Thanks for the great information
👍
Thanks for the video!
Your'e welcome!
Greetings to Rusty and you! Thank you for the very insightful video Stark, I've learned and benefited a lot. If you have another video that covers the Torsen-style Eaton Detroit Truetrac on ice (and snowy/icy roads) please point me in that direction or please consider creating one; I'm especially interested in seeing how a vehicle would handle ice in RWD, FWD and 4WD. Many thanks again!
Thanks for watching, these diffs are the best I’ve had in ice and snow. When the streets are covered in snow I don’t use 4wd because the rear diff always finds traction. And because having a limited slip in the front causes the front to loose side to side stability. It’s not like you are out of control but in very slippery conditions both front tires will break traction slightly and the front will not stay straight under power. At a steady speed all is good. Snow and ice are gone for the season so you will have to stay tuned for next years videos. Thanks!
@@starksexpeditions121 wonderful! Thank you very much for your insightful response. I currently have a large RWD SUV and live in a hot climate, I'm planning on moving somewhere with snow and ice so I'm in the market for an LSD. Your videos and active responses are helping me reaffirm my original thoughts and decisions. Many thanks and I wish you continued success.
I just got 4.56 gears and a truetrac in my XJ. I can’t wait to try it out! Im in northern Colorado and being winter it should be a ton of fun. Im going to head up to the mountains and see how much further I can get!
They work the best in snow! Have fun!
How'd it work?
I have A 98 xj w ford 8 8.
Your build is a solid inspiration. I just picked up my '98 and am following a similar path. Do you think you could do a video going over your mods? I know you've covered the diffs and the tires but any more information you could give about things like the bumper, winch, rack, and etc would be great to see. Thanks again!
I will do a walk around soon! Thanks!
Any update on the build, found myself here after a police auction sent me home with an 05
I ordered one good video thanks
Thanks!
Excellent! Thanks.
👍
I have a truetrac in my 08 silverado, put it in 8mos ago. If I do a brake torque, both wheels spin. When I take off from a stop sign and turn...the inside wheel hops like it's posi. I HAMMER the hell outta the truck and it takes it. It honestly acts like posi, at least mine does. The G80 blew ofcourse. It still works with the GM stability control also. Love the truetrac.
I’m glad it works well for you 👍
@@starksexpeditions121 alot better than that M80...I mean G80
Thank you for providing in depth real user content. I am looking to make my 08 F150 4 door 6.5 bed 4x4 lmtd slip rear on 35's a little more trail capable. Gear change and traction adder coming soon. I am curious about your comment about using a locker in the rear, could you add more info please? My first priority is to improve performance in sand and desert trails (chasing Baja desert races and vacationing/exploring) and rocky trails like you show on your videos. Do you carry spare front axle shafts and change on trail or at camp? Just how fragile are the cv's? I realize the skinny pedal has everything to do with it, but it looks like you are a methodical off-road driver as I am so want to know what to expect. Thanks
For the sake of simplicity I think must people would be very happy with just a rear locker. Both rear wheels pulling will do very well in desert type conditions. The only time I break a CV is when I'm on the brakes and the front diff is locked at full droop and at full steering lock.
helpful - thanks!
Pretty good explanation, better than the manufacturer. I've got front and rear trutracs in my Tacoma 5spd. I can get them to lock.
Some what but I think it would be hard to to, but they do work very well if the wheels are on the ground.
@@starksexpeditions121 it's really about skill, and understanding the mechanics of what is going on. Also practice.
@@cidizzle Yep!!!
CDizzle, what year is your Tacoma?
Great video! If you have a manual you can still use the e-brake to try and lock.
Thanks for watching!
In my limited experience the e-brake usually only goes to the rear so you still lose out on being able to lock up the front. A selectable locker in the front and a Truetrac in the rear would probably be just as good as full lockers on both axles in most situations though.
Great video. Thank you!
Thanks!
@@starksexpeditions121 are you still happy with the TruTrac for “city” driving on pavement/wet roads for daily driving/commuting? Seems like TruTracs are a great option for vehicles that have to serve double duty as daily drivers & weekend off-road exploring.
Yes, it shines in everyday use. Lockers and even clutch limited slips will chirp and spin the inside tire in tight turns. The TrueTrac does not do that. So it technically should be easier on tires, and my son drives it to school everyday and I doesn’t see any extra tire wear. For a all around I’m very happy. Like I said before it is so good in snow so that’s where my Expedition is used most and I can’t be happier.
@@starksexpeditions121 excellent- thank you again! Very much the same needs here in lower New England.
Awsome!! that was the video i was hoping for hehe ! cant wait to see more DTT action :)
More to come!
If I end up buying my f150 at the end of the lease I think I'm going to put a true trac in the rear and some nice all terrains. This diff sounds awesome
Sounds good!
Thanks for the informative video. Can you comment on rear tire life with the torsen? I have a clutch-type LSD in my truck and it wears back tires fast (I don't do burnouts).
I’ve use clutch style, and full locking diffs and the TrueTrac is easier on tires. It seems to vector torque to the inside tire and the outside is along for the ride. Definitely different feeling than a clutch LSD and a locker. It doesn’t chirp the tires just traction. It acts similar in the snow, always finds traction not just turn both wheels so it tracks better under acceleration.
That’s a nice expedition
Thanks!
I think I'm going to go with a Full locker in the rear and TT in the front. That's where the vehicle weight is so I think that's where you get the traction. Then True Trac the front. Kinda concerned that applying brakes to get TT to engage may cause me breakage problems on my CV especially when turning and at high CV angles when suspension is flexed. Hopefully full locker in the rear will be easier on my front end components Enjoy your video. Nice to see a rig that's not a jeep...
If I could do it again I would go that way. I love when I come down a trail and see the faces of guys when they see a soccer mom vehicle where only certain vehicles normally go.
If you watch in the intro of the video, he does pop a CV in that exact condition you describe. My advise: stay off the throttle in situations like that. Stay away from situations like that. Pick a different line to avoid that situation.
I would do the opposite. Put the selectable locker in the front and the Truetrac in the rear. My reasoning is it is so much more difficult to make a turn on a trail with the rear locked than the front. In order to make a tight turn, you need the differential action to get the rear ended to come around. John Currie (Owner of Currie Enterprises) also advocates this same approach.
Love your rig man. I have a 99 Eddie Bauer with all wheel drive and 4hi and 4low it also has the air ride should I get rid of the air ride before I take it off road. I’m gonna crank the torsions and put 35s on it.
There are some things about air ride that are different like the front shocks are 4" longer. I used 4" lift Ranchos. I recommend doing the brown wire mod to stop the auto 4x4 from engaging. Good luck with the build, if you need bumpers or sliders let me know.
I am putting trueracs in the front and rear of my 79 CJ5. Unfortunately starting with the rear due to needing to work on that axle anyways. I don't ever get into many obstacles like you are climbing in your vehicle. But I use my jeep on the west slope for hunting primarily, and icy muddy roads, especially steep ones, are why I am getting a LSD. Needing to drive on the HWY in 4wd potentially and the similar cost/added complication issues you mentioned sent me to the LSD. It is interesting that you mention the LSD won't even engage in high range. That is good to know.
How has the performance been for you in muddy conditions? does the brake need to be applied in these instances for traction to go to four tires?
I have a 8k lb warn winch, chains, and now will have the improved rear end. Hopefully I can get where I need to this season!
The LSD works all the time but i can’t get it to put torque to a wheel off the ground in high range. I ran Imogene Pass a few weeks back in a rain storm with lots of Colorado mud (not deep sloppy like low country) and it works so good. It snowed at the top and it just pulls through.
Good videos. I've shared your stuff about the True Track. I actually think you are sand bagging it a bit. I have a rear e-locker and a front Torsen and I prefer the front Torsen by far.
Thanks! This rig is pretty heavy so it’s best to keep a little in the bag.
Hello I've got a GMC 2500 HD with 410 gears and true tracks in the front and rear it originally came with g86 automatically locks up and unlocks when not needed awesome product because I was thinking about going to air lockers
👍
I seriously hope Eaton puts this vid up on their website
I agree; he really did a good job at explaining the features & benefits without any bias or disparaging other products.
Thanks! That would be cool.
The Truetac is a limited slip differential. It’s not a clutch or clutch/cone type, but it is still technically a limited slip. They work amazing with factory traction control systems. By design they also allow being used in the front better than a normal clutch style. The important part is that they require torque to move torque. A tire in the air requires almost no torque to move. That’s why applying the brake works. This is what makes the Truetrac and Torsen the best overall differential for anything except rock crawling. Most people want to over analyze the differential they buy. The Truetrac and Torsen are the best choice for almost every application and work extremely well in a front/rear setup. The video had some good shots in it, but was more of a tire and suspension discussion. The rest could be narrowed down to this. The Truetrac works well in every situation as long as you don’t have a tire off the ground. If you do try to use the brakes to shift the power. Other than that they do as they are supposed to and yes they work like an open differential even in the front when just driving around. Steering isn’t a problem because they will only begin to shift power when you make it happen. If you’re in a 4 wheel drive giving it enough power to spin all 4 you’re making it happen and not likely in a turning situation other than f’ing around.
You should make a video, thanks!
I installed a tru-trac into the rear of my 4wd Toyota Prado. It already has traction control as a factory option. The traction control and Tru-trac LSD are a match made in heaven
@@daveolsen8053 Nice!
@@daveolsen8053 Same thing on my 2021 Tacoma 4x4, TrueTrac in the rear with the factory Auto LSD (traction control) works really well hand in hand, pretty much what Stark is doing with his left foot.
Awesome ride and demonstration! Do you know if if they do a good job of staying engaged over a long periods of time in very low traction situations like slick mud or deep snow?
Thanks! Yes, they aren’t affected by heat as I can tell. I’ve run very deep snow and I’m always satisfied how good they work.
Glad you mentioned the manual transmission at the end, as that is what I have. I'm thinking I might go with something like this in the rear and an OX locker in the front dana 30 with the older 3 piece shaft
Great video! Does the expedition have controltrac like the explorers of that era?
It has “Auto 4x4” not sure if there was a name. But I did the “brown wire” mod to stop it from engaging 4 high until I select it at the switch. I had an Explorer and I think that system did the same thing.
So I've heard this is the type of differential setup the original Army Hummer had in the '80s and '90s and they would teach the guys how to do left foot pushing brakes. Also what's your opinion on having the true track alongside ABS traction control? Not the stability kind but the off-road kind of like Land Rover has where it grabs the brakes of the spinning wheel only. Do you think they would complement each other? Like the same way you're pushing the brake but the ABS system does it for you? I've heard some people say it makes the traction control system work less. If so I would like that because I own an old disco 2 that has phenomenal traction control but when you overuse it sometimes it gets Moody
Hello i have a ashcroft atb in a discovery and i can recomend getting one its transformed both on road and off road mine is fitted in the front it works the same as a truetrac
Love watching the reviews on the truetrac differentials! I took your advice and ordered up some 4.56 gears, now its time for differentials. Do you feel the front tt is worth it? I am afraid of breaking the IWE or the CV axles as I am sure this design is not meant for heavy off reading. What would you think of only an e locker in the rear? Keep up the great content!
Thanks, yes I think its worth it. I think the perfect set up (not a full on rock crawler) is a e-locker in back and TT in front. If you can't get through an obstacle with the rear locked you can apply the brakes and add more torque to both front wheels to get through. As long as you have an automatic, I don't think you can apply brakes and not stall. But even then the TT would put power to both wheels until one wheel lifts.
Tru tracs are very strong. I have them in my Range Rover Classic. One thing not covered here is sand..It made such a difference, that I can barely throw any sand as all 4 wheels just drive thru it. You can pick what ever style you want. I hope it all works for you what ever you choose or chose since this reply is a year later.. I left it for other people who may stumble onto this old video.. Are they pedal to the metal strong? Drag racers used them for years. Military Humvee drivers are instructed how to use the brakes to help Torsen diff's, Thats what the military has them in every Humvee. So I guess they are probably pretty strong, and worked good in the deserts of the middle east. Tru trac/ Torsen diffs are different. But once you get comfortable with them you will like them. For less money they are a bargain for what you get.. Full send up a bolder field? I do not know. I don't do that kind of 4x4ing. I like to drive home and not be on a tow truck. I wheel by myself a lot. I never thought for a second my TT's were going to break. Happy trails
When you install these diffs on these expeditions does the 4 wheel drive knob still function the same?
Doesn't effect it.
In the example you give. Where if " you are locked fully in the rear on the street and there's snow or ice , you'll just go sideways" does that apply to let's say, having a Grizzly locker in a RWD suv?
The only time it “locks” is when you hold the brakes at a very low crawl speed. It works better then a locker in the snow or ice because it doesn’t “lock” and will vector torque to the wheel with more traction.
So are you saying they aren't good if you have a stick shift? Your video was great but I was wondering about how they are with a manual. I have a 5 speed Jeep TJ. Thanks.
I don’t think you can make the front diff “lock” like I’ve demonstrated when a wheel is off the ground. If you are spinning with a wheel off the ground you may be able to pump the brakes to get some torque to transfer to the wheel off the ground but they will work great in all other situations.
Which Replacement CV axles do you use? None of the aftermarkets will handle any lift without binding.
Stock Motorcraft. If you don’t change the wheel travel they don’t bind.
I have a question ? So your saying that the truetrac won't work going down the freeway during snowy conditions. You talked about your front brakes can't hold you well enough to engage the front diff truetrac ? Maybe that has something to do with you having the truetrac in the rear as well.
The front diff works going down the freeway in snow, it will direct torque to both wheels. As you can see from the video I can hold the brakes well enough to engage the front. Not sure what you are asking.
NIce rig!
Thanks! You have the coolest truck ever made!
@@starksexpeditions121 haha thanks for saying that. I have a laser red metallic Expedition just like yours so your videos caught my eye. Love to see them getting worked!
@@605BOLT Thanks!
I have a Gen 4 4Runner V8 (AWD all the time), comes with a center diff locker.
I wanted to installed a True Trac on the front, and full E-locker for the rear.
Would this be a good combo?
I don’t have experience with that vehicle but I like the idea. I have an e-locker in the rear of my F150 and like that if I need I can lock both rear wheels and if I don’t need that I have an open diff in the rear for good street manors. I only thing I can say about using a TruTrac in the front is that in very slippery conditions both wheels in the front will spin and it can cause it to not track straight. But it is not like you are out of control and if I would release the throttle it would go back to tracking straight. I have a Detroit locker in the back and e-locker in the front of my Bronco and that combo works great for rock crawling. So it just comes down to how and where you are driving. The Bronco is harder to drive on very slippery roads as it will go sideways very quickly. But in the rocks it is perfect. Does that all make sense?
I put one of these in my 2WD S10 Blazer and I never worry about getting one wheel stuck in soft sand/dirt, like you encounter when pulling off an unknown road. Open diffs suck!
Nice!
So you guys would recommend this setup for my two wheel drive tacoma?
I want those rock sliders now! WHere did you get them. Also I have A4wd on my Expedition will this work on mine?
I can make a set for you, message me through my website rockymtnbroncos.com I don't have them on there but I already sold a set to another bad ass Expediton.
@Stark's Expeditions, On my 04 Expedition the biggest problem I have offroad is when one of the front wheels comes off the ground, like on a rutted out trail. As you know, all torque goes to the wheel off the ground, which is why I am considering a locker or TrueTrac. With a TrueTrac I understand that I can try to move my left foot to apply the E brake so that it gives power to the wheel on the ground in that situation. But that isn't easy to do quickly, so would I miss a beat there potentially, lose momentum at that point and risk getting stuck? A locker would already be locked or could be at the press of a button. So is a locker is better for my situation? Any thoughts on that? Thanks.
Sounds like you really understand what happens off road. With a TrueTrac you can’t use the e-brake to effect the front. And the only way to get the front to “lock” is to stop, hold the brake and throttle through the brakes to keep the wheel off the ground from getting all the power. So how you are wanting to keep momentum the TrueTrac is not going to work. A true locker will be better. But like you can see in my videos there is a high probability of breaking a front CV. My technique off road like I do in rocks is slow with my left foot on and off the brakes to keep traction and if I loose traction I stop then I hold the brake with my left foot and power through and the front wheel goes up but down pretty quickly. Once back on all four the TrueTrac works perfect without holding the brakes. In snow where you need some momentum I don’t use the brakes at all, just let the TrueTrac do it’s thing where it shines. And it works really good until a wheel lifts so as you are powering up something it will get traction much better than say an open diff so when a wheel lifts you are still moving forward so quickly enough you will be back on all fours and getting really good traction again. Hopefully that makes sense, I have lockers in my Bronco and use it more for big rocks and I like that setup for it but in an Expedition I think the much more simple and less expensive TrueTrac is perfect. Even with out a true locker I get my Expedition into places I really shouldn’t go. Sometimes getting stuck can save you from getting in real trouble.
@@starksexpeditions121 Thanks so much. This thing is what I am stuck with until I can get a 90s Bronco. My issues are clearance and not having lockers. So I will replace my 33s w35s, regear to 4:11, and put in a rear TrueTrac. I saw your video of you snapping the front CV, so I am leaning toward keeping the factory LS in there but will replace the clutch pack (thoughts?). Maybe I should do a video? (Might be more of comedy of errors!😁)
@@johnbennett6887 My advice is to only spend money on things that give the biggest benefit. If you are driving dirt roads and easy trails that needs less upgrades then rock crawling or deep mud running. And, if you are planning to get a different vehicle down the road then spending on the Expedition may be wasted once you start wheeling the new one. As far as breaking a CV goes once you go bigger tires and gears you start to reach the limit of strength. Expeditions are heavy... I had the front pinion bearing come apart and when I took it apart to fix the TrueTrac was full of metal shavings so I just put the open carrier back in so I've been running the TruTrac in the back and open in front and it still works good. Yes! do a video!
So I’m curious if the brake induced “lock” is bad for the brakes or the Truetrac itself? I’ve been reading about that technique but haven’t heard anything about whether it’s good for the system or not
The speeds are so slow that it is not bad.
If it's all the same to you, 100% Lincoln Lock the front diff if you already have some type of locker in rear
instant results bang per buck and since 4X4 is used off road it will work just fine.
Never drive a spool or Lincoln locked front diff on the street. And I have an e-locker in the front of my Bronco and it is almost impossible to turn with it locked so there’s that…
can we see a review on what gearing you are running?
Good idea! Coming soon...
Ii have a rear LSD and front open, F&R locked. Going uphill in snow, if I hear spin rear goes sideways. Is that because BOTH RR&RL are likely spinning ? ?
Yes if both rear wheels are breaking traction and spinning you will loose lateral stability.
What gear oil (brand, weight, synthetic? gl5) did you use with the true trac?
In the manual it says use non-synthetic and the weight the manufacturer says for your vehicle. I used Valvoline 80-90. And no friction modifier like you run in a Ford limited slip.
G'day, Aussie viewer here 🇦🇺 just wondering in your experience does your truetrac make any type of noise when it's locking? Or is it silent? Ours makes a noise when it's in operation but people tell me it's not normal while I have had this made this noise since I've had it installed.its like a grinding wet break noise.
My front TrueTrac makes noise driving on the road. It sounds like the gears inside are loose and rattle against themselves. Like a “waa waa waa” noise that increases with speed that does sound like grinding brakes. But I don’t hear any sound when I use the foot brake to lock it in low range. Thanks for watching!
@@starksexpeditions121 hmm bizzare. We put one into the rear of our AWD the centre is open but torque split 62R/38F the vehicle is also equipped with a 1/100th of a second activating brake lock differential off road traction control system, it seems that when front brakes lock up so to push power to the rear the TrueTrac makes this bizzare wet brake turning noise and I'm certain it is not the rear brakes. Can I post a link to a video we uploaded to see if you recognise the noise?
@@AllTerrainAction Sure, if I think about the noise I picture the helical gears have too much slop between and when they are turning against each other it rattles.
@@starksexpeditions121 have a watch of this it's around the 1min to 2min mark you will hear it engaging czcams.com/video/eNZfCBP8Nw0/video.html and just when power is beginning to be locked between both rear wheels.
@@AllTerrainAction Nice video! I have found that I can only get the diff to lock is in low range. And the rear will open up easier than the front. The other thing is once it opens I have to stop completely and start over buy applying the brake and holding it while pushing more throttle to move the vehicle and that will keep it locked. Another thing that happen is I was descending a really loose and rocky trail called Imogene Pass. I was using low range and had the transmission in first gear allowing the engine to hold me back to save the brakes. After a few miles of that I started to smell gear oil getting hot and after another mile the front diff made a sound like a dry bearing screeching so I stopped and looked under and there was fluid coming out of the breather hose. I took it out of low range and used the brakes for the rest of the trail. The noise was louder but not extreme and I did feel a slight vibration driving home at over 75 mph. I changed the fluid (not burnt but maybe a little darker than new) and now it’s not making noise or vibrating.
I have a 2011 Ford Expedition do you know if the truetracs will fit my suv. Also do they work in reverse .
Not 100 percent but I think they are available. They work in reverse.
I have a E350 2wd ban with a Dana 60 and Truetrac. It has gotten me out of deep sand a number of times.
It’s a misnomer to say it “locks.” Your braking just gives it more torque to bias but it’s just amplifying the torque transfer an open diff would do. It’s essentially an open diff with a bias ratio of 3.5:1 instead of 1:1 (no bias). Drive it like an open diff and just enjoy superior results.
It most definitely will lock at 1:1 if you hold the brake. There is a video where I break a right front axle, at that point it was 1:1. OK, lock is not the right word but it will but equal torque to both wheels. I will say that the front diff will do that but the rear does not. It will not hold torque. Thanks for the feedback.
thanks for this good stuff. what percent of time are you wishing you put a locker in the rear? ill be running an e350 4x4 conversion, high top with full camper build. just trying to make the decision if i need a full locker in the rear.
Thanks! Trick question, truth be told most of the time. To clarify, I wish I had a selectable locker in the rear. TrueTrac in the front with a selectable locker (ARB or E-locker) rear for the type of terrain I need more than just 4x4. As I say in the video the TrueTracs don't put all torque to both wheels, in the front it will pull you up over things but I think the rear looses traction because of the same thing. So you need to apply the brakes to get the front to help when if the rear was full locked it would keep traction longer. I'm guessing you won't be rock crawling with your van, but having a selectable locker gives you the good stability in snow when it is open and max traction when locked at slow speeds. I had a 2wd prerunner Ranger with a Detroit locker and it was always sideways in the snow on the road but went places a 4x4 with open front and rear couldn't go. So think about what is most important and there is always a compromise. I have a new F150 Ecoboost with an e-locker so its open until the switch is pulled and it will actually spin one rear tire accelerating pulling a trailer, wish it had a limited slip.
On rock slab, do you get wrap-up between the front and rear differential?
No, that’s something they do well. They don’t lock unless you ride the brake at very low speed like I demonstrate. They act like any other limited slip at faster speeds.
My experience with driving on hard surfaces, I get wrap-up, between the front and rear with my True Trac
Makes me wonder how well this will do with the Wrangler brake lock differential that applies the brakes to the wheel that spins while off-roading. ? Manual transmission
Not sure, but it’s a great limited slip diff no matter what.
@@starksexpeditions121 roger that thank you!
I wondered why that dog didn't clean his paws before jumping in.
Then saw your example.
☆
When you let off the brake while still under load, does it open back up or does it continue to put traction down until load is removed?
It opens as soon as brake pressure is released.
So then going uphill, say from a start, you have to ride the brake all the way uphill in order to get the benefits to the top? I suppose if your geared right that’s not an issue? I am truly digging (no pun intended) the Eaton over LSD no question, just learning the operation a little more. It would be nice if it was still “locked” so to speak, but then I imagine that could create issues on trails with turns and our cv weak spot.
@@corylamar9125 If both tires are on the ground no brakes needed, only when you are rock crawling and in low range lifting a wheel do you need to apply brakes. Both wheels power if they are on the ground like a locker more than how a LSD works.
Stark's Expeditions the reason I was getting to that was because I’m trying to decide the best traction option for the front diff, without breaking cv’s regularly, that will perform to my needs in MOAB next year. A lot of 3 wheeling on some of the uphill obstacles. At 500 less (roughly) than lockers, I was considering it. But climbing the obstacles with brakes applied doesn’t seem like the route I need. For my everyday wheeling it would be absolutely perfect.. Thank you for the time bud!! You’re a good man..
@@corylamar9125 No problem, thanks!
Going along with my last comment, I see people just hitting the gas and instantly locking like your front wheels do, where my factory lsd never does this. The truck also has near 400k miles on it and likely never had its gear oil serviced. I will note that i get white streaks on my new wheels here lately like the shaft seals under the center cap might be leaking, I've noticed so I'm thinking of just revamping the truck entirely. Engine, trans, rear end. Ive got a $5700 pile of parts just waiting to go on. Im hoping the rear end can be done with minor work to the ring gear and carrier. And u didn't just maybe a big perchase for a diff that works like my factory one if its not any better in performance.
You can rebuild the factory LSD clutch pack, carbon upgrades are available for Ford 8.8.
One thing I'm confused about is when one wheel is in the air and you're pushing the brakes I've heard that an open differential would have the same effect so what makes it different?
Not possible. The truetrac needs to be on the ground to work. When you brake the wheel in the air it simulates that and sends power to the other wheel that has traction. Open differentials are open and don't do this.
@@Gunalizer I'm saying an open differential if you push the brake. Kind of how my Land Rover traction control does it with open differential and pushes the brake on the spinning wheel and the same effect as achieved without pushing the brake. But with an open differential without traction control you can do the same thing. So the true track really just works better on the ground but when a wheel gets in the air it's the same as an open diff
Sorry for making this such a long reply, but some basic background is needed to explain why the Tru-Trac (and most other limited-slip styles) respond so well to applied braking effort.
Here's the deal. In an open diff, torque on both sides is always exactly the same. This confuses almost everyone, and I bet that someone who doesn't understand what this really means will jump in and claim it's wrong. By the same token, so many discussions of this topic would be far clearer to most people if the word "power" were never used, since almost no one understands what "power" actually means in this context. However, I will skip the explanation for why that's so confusing.
Unlike an open diff, a limited-slip diff (and especially a locker) is able to maintain unbalanced torque between the two sides. The axle on the side with poor traction will only have as much torque as can be generated before the tire on that side slips, but torque on the other side might end up being a lot higher (how much higher depends on how hard the vehicle "tries" to move or keep moving, and a few other factors which won't be mentioned here).
With an open diff, if one tire gets lifted off the ground and the vehicle needs traction to keep moving, the torque on that side's axle will be zero because it requires zero torque to spin that wheel in the air. That means the torque on the axle for the tire with good traction will also be zero, and therefore no forward push will be generated by the tire with good traction. Applying the brake means that a lot of torque can be needed to spin the tire that's off the ground, and now, that same amount of torque is present in the axle for the tire that's planted on the ground. That higher torque value may be enough to get the vehicle moving. It's kind of hit or miss whether this works, though, and it's more a function of whether the brake on one side might be exerting a little less force than the other, but it can sometimes get you out of being stuck in cases when not much forward pushing is needed to get the vehicle moving again.
With the Tru-Trac, the maximum difference in torque between the two sides is dictated by the geometry of the gears, and this maximum ratio is much greater than the 1:1 value of an open diff. Not all units are the same but one person in the comments here says this ratio is 3.5:1, so let's use that as an example. In this case, if one tire gets lifted off the ground and the vehicle can't simply coast through the situation, then just like before, it requires zero torque to make that wheel spin, so there's zero torque imposed on the axle on that side. On the other side where the other tire has traction available, the maximum torque that can be achieved is 3.5 times greater, but 3.5 x zero is still zero, so the Tru-Trac unit is basically helpless for the time being (actually, there's enough mechanical inefficiency in the differential gears that the situation is not quite as bad as this). BUT, when the brakes are applied hard enough, a high amount of torque will be needed to spin the tire that's lifted off the ground, and now, the maximum torque that can be achieved on the other side (this torque value depends on resistance and is not constant for all situations) is 3.5 times greater than that. Some of that torque-making ability will be needed to overcome the brakes on that side, but that ratio of 3.5:1 ensures that there's plenty of ability to make the torque on that side go higher still, and that ability to generate additional torque beyond that needed to overcome the brakes translates to an ability to make the tire on that side generate enough pushing force to make the vehicle move. An open diff can't even come close to having this capability.
Hi, what a great video!
on the front you use the "Eaton Truetrac"?
Thanks! Yes I use the Eaton front and rear.
@@starksexpeditions121
great job!
on the front do you have a rigid axle?
@@starksexpeditions121
that is to say,
Can a 2015 Toyota Tacoma be fitted with an "Eaton Truetrac" in the front?
I don’t know about Tacomas.
Πατάς φρένο και ταυτόχρονα και γκάζι ταχύτητα? Η πατάς φρένο και το αφήνεις και πατάς γκάζι ?
what is it in the front or rear axle?
What are you asking?
Would you guys recommend this for my two wheel drive truck instead of dumping a ton of money into an air locker? I just use it to get to disperse camping off of forest service roads. Just want added insurance. My clutch pack limited slip that came from the factory is wearing out, and I don't think it worked that great in the first place
Lots of options, do a search to find what is available.
If you want something that works all the time pretty well, even on the road, get the tru trac. If you want a selectable locker get an Ox Locker and run a cable into your cab. Cheaper than air, cable shifted like a good transfer case and comes with a separate key to put in the diff to lock it in case the cable gets damaged.
My friend has an old 2wd ranger with a trutrac in the rear. It keeps up pretty well tbh!
I have Chevy and replaced factory G80 (started to fail) with Truetrack. Same words, same experience.
👍 thanks for watching!
I`M NEW TO THE CHANNEL BUT FROM WHAT I`VE SEEN YOUR HAVING SOME BREAKAGE PROBLEMS. WHAT EXACTLY IS BREAKING AND HAVE YOU FOUND A FIX. I`VE JUST RECENTLY BUILT MY EXPEDITION WITH A FABTECH 6 INCH LIFT,37 INCH TIRES ,4.88 GEARS AND ARB AIR LOCKERS. TO ME THE STUB SHAFTS LOOK A LITTLE WEAK. SO FAR I HAVEN`T FOUND A REPLACEMENT . HAVE YOU? THANKS FOR ANY INFORMATION.
I broke 2 out CV joints in the front axles, no heavier duty replacements out there. RCV will make some for $1000 each but I have to buy 10 for them to do it. They only break at near full lock at the steering. If you good up with the wheels straight no problems. I'd love to see that build!
@@starksexpeditions121
Your truck looks so good without the front diaper bumper 😉👌
@@xmo552 Thanks!
So are you applying gas and brake at the same time? Or just tapping the brakes?
If you are going very slow climbing and rock or bank I hold the brakes and apply power to keep the diff “locked” to allow the front tire to climb. If already spinning you can also “slab” the brake pedal to get some power to go to the tire on the ground to get a little movement forward and that can get you out. So both can be done.
@@starksexpeditions121 slab? Or tap?
Sorry, I meant to say “stab” because it takes a pretty hard tap of the brakes.
Good enough for the military it’s good enough for me.. takes regular fluid and not friction modifiers. Drives like a regular differential. Hummers are legendary because of torsen style lockers. Just have to learn to drive with 2 feet.
👍
Two feet is the best way to drive offroad anyway. FYI
I got one but no snow here in australia.
Probably find some snow somewhere there. I don’t have much sand here, how does it work in soft sand?
I have a 2003 Jeep Cherokee Liberty KJ 3.7, can I do this with the brake?
That I don’t know, does it have Truetracs?
@@starksexpeditions121 I don't now,does each model have this by itself? or do you put it extra?
Lockers are the way to go!
Thanks for watching!
So my dodge ram 2500, you have to really push the ebrake to the point it almost is too much for the engine to lock the stock lsd. It is Exactly the same as the true track design. My question is... at $1,060 is it worth having the name brand eaton that is a fully machined body. I was told they have a better torque bias ratio than the factory aam 11.5" 14bolt
I really don't have experience with Dodge diffs, good luck with your build.
Why not put the trutac on the rear and a e locker on the front.
Because I wanted to put them in the front and rear.
Joe Montana
I can't say from experience, but at least for the rear, using the parking brake instead of the pedal is supposed to work better... ???
In the video you can see the goal is to get the front to “lock” to get over obstacles so the parking brake has no effect since it’s just in the back.
@@starksexpeditions121 Hence, "but at least for the rear." Jeesh...
You can put the camera in your feet she how doing
Using the work "lock" is very misleading. Under no circumstances and in no situation is a TrueTrac or any Torsen type differential capable of fully locking and transmitted 100% of torque to both wheels like an actual locking differential does.
Thanks for pointing that out, I thought I verbalized that in my video but you didn’t hear that. But thanks for watching it.
I just don't get your critique of a truetrac in the front and both tires spinning if you get on the gas to break traction. The whole idea on a packed snow surface is to NOT break traction. The truetrac is providing superior front end traction by distributing torque, of course if you force traction loss with excessive throttle, both tires will spin. This is like complaining about a great pizza that tastes amazing because you ate the entire thing, and your stomach hurts.
Thanks for watching, it’s not a complaint it’s explaining how it works. If both front tires spin you loose lateral control as compared to an open diff that one tire is always turning at vehicle speed and maintaining directional control. On a black ice surface too much throttle will induce loss of directional control because torque goes to both tires.
By the way, I love all pizza.
@Stark's Expeditions Yeah, ice and even slush (which is just evil) definitely can cause that, or the dreaded "I'm turning the wheel and still going straight" joyride.
Mmm pizza.
@@starksexpeditions121I know this is an old post but I'm new to things like differential locks and hub locks.
I understand a vehicle can slide sideways if all tires are slipping/spinning at the same time but.
Is having the front and rear diff locked in snow better since it helps with traction and it's less likely that all tires will spin at the same time? Why not use snow chains? When driving over ice with snow chains is it not preferable to have the front and back diff locked instead of open?
These fake trac, I mean no trac, oh sorry true trac suck. I got one of these crap lockers and it was a huge waste of money.
Tell me why?
@@starksexpeditions121 Any locker that needs you too press the brake to lock up is no locker at all. I have no idea why people like these at all.
@@killeroffroadhobbyz They are not lockers. They are limited slips that can be used to transfer torque to both axles better than a clutch or cone style limited slip. Sorry you wasted your money. Do you have any experience with e-lockers? I'm building a Bronco and want real lockers in it. Don't really like the idea of air operated lockers due to having an air compressor, just something else to fail.
How many more folks are going to crap on a product they don't understand ? It's like buying bowling shoes and expect them to be good for running...try to understand what the product was designed to do before saying it doesn't work.
@@DL101ca That is what I was trying to say with the video. TrueTracs work better than any other limited slip type diff for rock crawling and bowling shoes can be used for running just need to run differently : )
Great video on the Torsen lsd. I run them both front and rear on my '18 Ram 3500 w/37s. They are fantastic!
Thanks!
Torsen is actually a markedly different design / implementation than the truetrac, but they are comparable in performance. Truetrac is probably better than the standard Toresen T2 for off-road use due to it's ability to bias up to 3.8x with the brakes applied as preload (or under perfect conditions).
@@JoelGrant they are, yes. Even the two I run have differing bias. AAM "trac-rite?" in the rear (stock) and Detroit "tru-trac" in front. It takes more work to get the rear operating. The overall design is fantastic.
@@JoelGrant, can you expound on your comment, "torsen is actually a markedly different design / implementation than the truetrac?" Are you referring to the built in torque bias or something else?