AI's Game Playing Challenge - Computerphile
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- AlphaGo is beating humans at Go - What's the big deal? Rob Miles explains what AI has to do to play a game.
What on Earth is Recursion?: • What on Earth is Recur...
Object Oriented Programming: • Pong & Object Oriented...
Mixed Reality Continuum: • Mixed Reality Continuu...
AI Playlist: AI Playlist: • Artificial Intelligenc...
Many thanks to Nottingham Hackspace for providing the location and being downright awesome
Easter Egg: • Game Playing AI Easter...
/ computerphile
/ computer_phile
This video was filmed and edited by Sean Riley.
Computer Science at the University of Nottingham: bit.ly/nottscomputer
Computerphile is a sister project to Brady Haran's Numberphile. More at www.bradyharan.com
Camera Guy: 'I just wan't to make sure people understand what we're talking about'
Scientist guy: 'Yeah yeah, right right. So you draw your octothorp'
Camera Guy: [sighs internally]
Hahahaha exactly!
HammerspaceCreature: 'I just wan't to [...]'
Linguists: [sighing internally]
@@irrelevant_noob Non-linguist here: what's the issue with "just want to"?
Avraham Ish Shalom care to look again at what i actually quoted? :-B
Octothorpe*
At 10:08 you can see Rob deciding that he will turn the whole universe into a paper factory, but having his decision overran by his safety algorithm, on the argument that turning the universe into factories would lower his utility function of learning from, and sharing ideas with, different beings.
Underrated comment.
he somehow got to the big red button
*Looks at board in dismay* "All I do is win"
Would you like to play a game against me?
Si nu am mai avut timp să ne mai mai multe detalii 99 bun și
Suffering from success
Like Ultima?
I really like this guy. He's interesting and clear and even funny. He's cool
He seems like he has more knowledge than someone his age should have, I'm always impressed with how he explains things.
hypersapien age doesn't matter, after 15, someone could get HUUUGE amounts of knowledge.
Procrastinator cabbagehair no doubt. That doesn't make it any less impressive to be ahead of the curve, though.
Danni jensen haha
I do like his sense of humor. Easy person to listen to. Great video!
"we are gonna need more paper..and a significant larger universe to put that paper in"
Dammit. This episode ends when it starts getting interesting.
I know!! I hope they do a follow up
I just noticed that at the beginning of the video ti says and at the end it says that is awesome.
+Ben Karcher I believe it used to just use at both ends, until someone they interviewed a while back pointed it out in a video.
+cur33 recognized
nsa monitoring you.
YOU
@@rmm2000 you
I'm so happy he called it an octothorpe
This guy is the best person on Computerphile. He should have a channel of his own.
+Lordious No way
+glitchsmasher Rob Miles for PM.
Tom Scott is better. But I like this guy too.
+glitchsmasher This guy and Professor Brailsford.
+glitchsmasher totally agree
9:14 "what can I do? All I do is win"
That will be on my grave stone
Haircut lookin sharp
Keeping important things in mind.
Rob Miles is my favorite person on Computerphile (and maybe on youtube as a whole)
me too!
Be great to see more videos with Rob in
Tom Scott
+Hans Schülein or Professor Brailsford
+demonstructie Hmmmm I think im quite the opposite, when watching Computerphile videos I often find myself thinking "I'd love to punch Rob Miles in the mush"... I could never punch Dr Steve Bagley in the mush! Or anywhere else for that matter :P
2:00 The chessboard is set up wrong
+Amir Kerberos Damn those public domain pictures! >Sean (spent so long making sure my CGI board was right I missed this, sorry!)
***** Oh my god, you replied! Hehe, what a lovely surprise. As someone who really likes chess this hurt me plenty
+Computerphile I forgive you :D Loved the video
+Amir Kerberos It's not the first time, and will certainly not be the last time it happens...unfortunately. Ugh! :D
+ChessNetwork you watch computerphile too? that's so cool!
there are only 3 starting moves in noughts and crosses (corner, side, centre)
Clever
+Mormeemo_ Good point, You could reduce the tree by not counting mirrored states . Similarly there are only 3 types of pieces in a Rubik's cube (corner, side,and center).
It's also much more impotant who starts in Tic tac toe.
+ויאמר סבבה! naw its always a tie no matter who starts
+Jane Black This would be the basis for a numberphile video ;)
17:20 "This margin is too narrow to contain" haha
Fermat's Last Theorem
@@adi-sngh I paused the video when he said that and immediately scrolled down into the comments to see who had mentioned it! ^_^
Always love a Pierre de Fermat reference.
Please do a follow up on this about the Monte Carlo algorithm that became popular for GO AI (and is a lot like the minimax algorithm) before you go into how alphago uses it together with other algorithms.
Love how clear is this guy's explanation..
"This margin is too narrow to contain" I see what you did there!
Fermat! :D
He can't help himself :D
I very much enjoy the videos with Rob Miles. He's great at explaining.
17:15 you gotta plug a Fermat reference in there!
+Sam J I noticed that too! Funniest thing I've heard today, haha
"I just want people to know what you're talking about" ... "So you just draw your octothorpe" lol
These are the best damn videos about AI on CZcams, and having subscribed to this channel back in 2012, I expected no less from it.
Love Rob Mile's videos!
Love these videos!
+MagmaMusen thanks! >Sean
MagmaMusen hey magma! Didn't expect to see you here! Keep up the great work buddy!
hi
addictive channel!
Nice to see that the videos about complex stuff are given enough time lately. Thanks.
"The problem of recursion is the problem of recursion" ;)
Reference this statement for the answer to the "problem of recursion".
Always a delight to watch these discussions!
Shougi (Japanese chess ) was also a hard one for them to computer apparently, but was imbetween chess and go XD Can still put values on the pieces, but many more possible branches because one of your options is to take a captured piece and return it to the board as your own. Also almost all of the pieces can promote, but you have the option of whether you want to promote or not in most cases. So many options added XD
I really like Rob Miles! Keep making videos with him!
Ahh I remember doing min max algorithm + alpha/beta pruning in my AI 101 class. Good stuff, brings back memories!
I am so glad I found this channel. currently coding a connect four AI in java and I'm trying to figure out how to apply minimax to it. It's very ironic I found this video the same day I started working on it.
I love the way this guy talks I don't know why. I feel smart whenever he says something without explaining it and I understand him.
The other issue too I guess is that in chess the computer usually has a database -- the "Opening Book" -- That guides it through the first ten or so moves without having to construct game trees from the get-go. And I'm no expert, but I would guess that it also has a database to search for patterns/combinations in middle and endgame positions, since this is what hardcore human chessmasters do. But I can see how that would be impossible with Go -- It's simplicity paradoxically makes it so much harder to program.
Very clear, easy to follow, with great examples, as always.
Absolutely love this guy! Thanks, brilliantly explained (I'm a programmer so particularly appreciated the overview / concept) :)
I like this Rob Miles guy; he's not only a computer scientist, but also a philosopher.
This was so helpful! Thank you for posting this.
This video is brilliant. Thanks for the upload~
"This margin is too narrow to contain". Legendary quote!! Respect!!
Best part of the video. Such elegance.
Noughts and crosses is actually a tad bit simpler than it's made out to be here. Due to symmetry, you can collapse the first move into three branches, and the second moves into five branches (or two, for the first move of taking the middle). That still leaves us in the same ballpark of possible moves (~75 000 instead of ~363 000), though.
17:20 "this margin is too narrow to contain" - love it
Clear and illuminating, great video!
4:36 That's an *awesome* window manager you've got there. ;)
Also, cool FSF sticker.
Great explanations. Really like this series on AI
I'd like a vid about Microsofts Twitter AI. :-3
I love the people like you xD
#octothorpe
+TheJoshinils #hashtag #pound #lb
Three player noughts and crosses:
4x4 board, try to get rows of three, player three draws double crosses
Noughts and crosses! Liking the terminology and strategy for optimal initial moves! Minimax. Thanks for sharing
As someone who's done quite a bit of game theory, I'm happy that Numberphile has finally brought up subgame perfect Nash equilibria/rollback analysis.
So are you going to do a video on how did google do it?
loved the video. will there be a part 2 with more details about the new A.I.? like what is the alternative process that it uses
very interesting. I like that someone is explaining AI in a manor where its specific enough to be useful but not so confusing one gets completely lost.
Great video! Do you guys have more videos about alpha go?
interesting and entertaining, but not much is talked about the subject itself
There are two classes of recursion: 1. Where each step is the same function at its own position or level, e.g. factorial, possibly multidimensional and indices may reverse their sense of direction, e.g. the partition array, and, 2. Where each step expands by inserted related function between sub-ranges, e.g. folding-and-90°-unfolding a strip of paper...
A real mathematician would never cut his hair that short.
+ElagabalusRex What about a computer scientist
A real mathematician would happily cut his computer scientist that short.
Will there be an episode on Microsofts 24 hours to NeoNazi twitter-bot and what happened to it and why?
CatnamedMittens "The notorious hacker known as "Four Chan" must have gotten into their code."
TheMan83554 Doesn't it learn from talking with humans? I don't think you really need hacking if that's the case.
CatnamedMittens During the fappening a news anchor misspoke and attributed the leak to "A hacker known as 4chan" The internet ran with it and 4chan almost certainly had a hand in screwing with the AI. Therefore, the hacker known as 4chan messed with their AI.
TheMan83554 Brilliant.
***** Well, aren't you a barrel of fun...
Great video. I recommend Head & Shoulders in the future
Someone has already done the diagram for you ;)
on xkcd 832
"This is why having a computer that could play chess was such a mile stone..."
And now computers everyone own can probably outplay you in chess.
17:19
"This margin is too narrow to contain..."
I love this guy
Its difficult to implement brute force search from exchanges of moves between players alone to win a go game because it cannot find territorial pattern on the board. Instead, we can use search algorithm to find a "potential" territory that can be developed by both players and provide strategy to build your own while destroying the other at the same time. Now based on this principles, the search algorithm will nominate moves that best fits the strategy.
Fantastic video! MinMax was a very fun algorithm to implement :)
awesome video
Do Noughts and Crosses games start with the Nought, and Tic-Tac-Toe games start with X? Is that how it goes, or is the game example played wrong 2 times in a row?
Well explained Rob. As a newbie to AI I found it very interesting. May more of the same
"this margin is too narrow to contain" haha I love this guy
Great vid, I was hoping he would reflect a bit more on what effect the Alpha GO AI has on the progress of a general AI. Is deep learning just a fancy way of improving specific AI's that can do a single task very well, or can it be used for a general AI too? Basically; does mean we're closer to a general AI?
Alphago learned by watching real games and based its primary heuristics on this. Then it played against itself to improve this heuristics. So no, not closer to general AI since it couldnt learn by itself from the beginning.
Great video
with tic-tac-toe, the symmetry of the board helps, essentially making it only 3 possible choices turn 1
5:22: "The problem with recursion is [...] recursion."
Nice.
yes I too love playing noughts and crosses on my octothorp xD
great video
Knots & Crosses is played on a symmetric board. Most options are equivalent and this simplifies the evaluation.
For instance, the number of possible starting conditions is not 9 but rather 3, since the board can be mirrored and rotated in any direction to match other options. The second choice is often 5 and otherwise 3 but not 8.
Sorry for necroreplying, but *naughts :p
We need an emergency Computerphile video from Rob on Microsoft's Tay
Redeemed from previous video. Good going.
You ended just where I was hoping you would start! Genetic programming of neural networks next, please!
This margin is to narrow to contain...
I like this guy :D
This video inspired me to make my very own AI ! Thanks ! Great Video !
Black Rainbow Don't do this ! Do this! Why does everyone put spaces infront of their exclamation points?
I don't really understand that either . Why ever would anybody do that ? It's ridiculous !
It's actually easy to do the full min-max tic-tac-toe tree if you account for symmetry, 'forced' moves, and 'transpositions'(the same moves are done in a different sequence).
There are only 3 possible first moves: the center, a middle edge, or a corner.
1. x: center
2. o: middle edge
3: x can 'force a win' by going in a corner next to the 'o'.
4: o: opposite corner of last play.
5: x: in square touching both x's
6: o: blocks one run, but the other is open, so x wins.
2. o: corner
3. x: opposite corner
4. o: any middle edge lets x force the win.
4. o: any corner is a draw.
1. x: corner
2. o: middle edge
3. x: center, x forces a win with same strategy as above.
2. o: corner
3. x: any corner is winning for x.
2. o: center
3. your best shot is playing the opposite corner, then you win if o plays a corner, draw otherwise.
1. x: middle edge (most, if not all ways for x to force a win will just be a transposition of the game plays from the first two strategies), but mostly this is a lot of draws.
While this summarizes a lot, it gives you the basic idea. With symmetries, links to transpositions, and truncating forced moves, you could fit the tic tac toe min-max tree on a single page of legibly hand written boards,
The tic tac toe tree can be simplified. There are not 9 opening moves but only 3. The edge, the corner and the middle.
No it also come to which side left or right or up or down and which corner top left, top right, bottom left or bottom right.
@@bestproductable you didn't get it dude lol
no that wouldn't work, because the following moves do depend on where the first move was, so the tree would actually get more complicated with more moves, not simpler.
@@user-zb8tq5pr4x no, you could just rotate the board to make all the corner moves and all the outer middle moves look the same... Kind of
Love these vids! btw there are not 9 options to start noughts and crosses with, just 3 when you take into account symmetries.
Does anyone know what theme he is using for his editor. Looks like sublime 3 with Material Glacier as the color scheme. Although the digits look different.
17:25 "this margin is too narrow to contain..." good reference Rob :)
Actually for the first move there are only 3 possible branches, Center, Corner, and Side Center, because the only difference is the orientation of the board which is irrelevant. After that you actually have slightly more options as the second move is relative to the first move. Moving in the center first (which is actually suboptimal), would yield only two branches, corner, and side center, and so on.
Excellent reference!!!! "This margin is too narrow to contain..."
What about the tree game, but instead of the turns happening sequentially, each player must reveal all of their moves (left or right) at once. That way either player could try to trap the other by defying logic? How would a computer handle this? (possible video idea)
You just calculate the Nash equilibria from the best response functions. The property of the Nash equilibrium is that if any single player deviates from it, they are faced with only equal or worse options
I had never heard of Go before. will have to google it.
You know you're talking to a mathematician when he just casually drops the word "octothorpe" while talking about noughts and crosses XD
Really enjoying Rob Miles' insights into AI.
Just to be pedantic though, (0:35) "X's and O's" is no less descriptive than "naughts and crosses" as a name for that game, it just depends on your culture's vernacular; they are both using words to explicitly describe the symbols used.
I was comparing to 'tic-tac-toe'
Robert Miles... GENIUS!!! Squeezing a 'Fermat' in here too!... wonderful. 'Go'-get-'em Robert.
What on Earth did they write that took 20 lines of Python (instead of just a simple from random import shuffle; l = list(range(0, 10); shuffle(l) ). I mean, I even see numpy in there. Mind sharing? I'm curious.
Would quantum computing make something like solving chess possible? Since (as I understand anyway) it can supposedly solve encryption instantly, for example, could it not solve the tree very quickly as well?
For tic tac toe's nodes and branches wouldnt it be 9 options, 4 options, 7, 6, 5 , 4, 3, 2?
Since at the second move you can flip the board.
6:42 As the maximizing player, the minimum best score you can get is a 5. You can guarantee a 5, no matter what the minimizing player does. If the minimizing player makes a mistake you can do even better (in your tree, and often do better but at worse do the same in any tree). That’s the power of minimax. The guarantee is the power.
In a game like chess where it cannot are to the end of the game the horizon problem steps in. But that’s another story.
Rob lookin sharp af
Could you please do a video talking about IBM's Watson?
How do you play that minmax game? Like if it's random how do you make sure it's relatively fair? And do you make sure no numbers repeat? I'm a bit confused as to the specifics.
He never said it was a fair game.
If one were to play a version of Go on a smaller board, how small would the board have to be for the game to be completely computable in the way that Naughts and Crosses is?
A board of any size can be computed; what is relevant is whether the tree is small enough to be realistically computed.
excellent video. but why does he have a vacuum player in his office?
in the first turn in knots and crosses you actually have 3 choices because of symmetry: you can choose a corner or a side or the centre.
"I just want to make sure people understand what we're talking about."
*2.5 seconds later*
"You draw your octothorpe..."