It’s a business decision for many companies to go with electron than java/c since its fast deployment, and user friendly. Users don’t care if stack electron is not great as long as its user friendly and aesthetic
"You can build desktop applications…." Me: Wow, somebody realised that web development is not the only type of software development in the world, and that there are still people who develop apps, gotta hear about that "… with JavaScript" Me: WTF
Only reason I clicked on this was too see this comment down here somewhere lol. Mind you it isn't impossible to make a good desktop program in JavaScript, but none of the tooling is heading to a direction that would allow it. If the program architecture is 90% polyfill bloatware and designed by someone that thinks the current web frameworks are a good starting place for it, they'll either struggle mightily to get it done well, or release garbage. Good examples would be the PC component vendor's applications for managing their hardware, they seem to only hire web devs (nothing wrong with that mind you I'm one too) for lower cost and not dedicate any time to make an architecture actually designed for the purpose.
that's a big brain move. I think that in a few years this language gonna be one of the most important in the programming world. I saw that Linux developers was thinking about rewriting the whole kernel in Rust, or just a part
@@CodingWithLewis Hi, Why don't we have developers or jobs for who build desktop applications specifically or a developer shouldn't choose technologies to build applications?
I very much like apps that use tauri or edge webview since they tend to run much faster because they strip unnecessary components Also for those wondering there are multiple webview libraries There’s Tauri with Rust and JS/TS Wails with Go and JS/TS If you bother searching you’ll probably find a version for a language you’re familiar with
@@swiftypopty1102 The difference is, that an app built in tauri does't package it's own version of chromium but uses the one already installed on your PC (Webview).
@@swiftypopty1102 yes but the reason edge chromium is better is because Microsoft changed the source code (open source is open source) and fixed chrome memory intensive nature. So it no hog you RAM.
I used Tauri for my internship, built an app that controls the workflow of a medical device, it was a good choice I made I think because it was really easy to use and you don't even need to learn rust as you can just ignore the default rust backend and use your own NodeJS one for example, and no rust coding needed.
Well, if you are coding for an Atmega328p with 2kB of ram, probably you shouldn't use electron. But probably you even don't know what is an Atmega328p so...
@@iliasalaur Stop normalizing inefficient use of resources. Electron can be less inefficient if it's heavily optimized (like VSCode), but most people don't bother to. Even if they do, it'll still be slower than some other language.
I've worked with ElectronJS por a months, and I just loved, because de benefit of a desktop app is that you won't need a Back-end server, the "back-end" is the machine of the client xd
There is one thing that few people know about. One library that is the one that could fix the issues of Electron. This library has Rust as a backend, JS as a frontend And Tao and Wri for the replacement fro Chromium. It is the perfect library for building desktop apps with JS, but no one uses it. It's called Tauri lol
@@vadym-beep1241 less ram consumption and disk space dont really matter to most companies (and especially not to the hobby devs). what actually does matter is if the software has been tested extensively which is the case for electron and even more so for chromium. benchmarks might be cool to look at, but thats about it
@@ThisNils I think you are being ignorant here, if a software can offer both stability, security and speed and efficiency in the use of resources it will certainly be the preferred choice of companies, as it should be of any developer, that is precisely why Tauri is worth it. the pity in relation to Electron.
I used Tauri a couple of times, the bundle size and ram usage are orders of magnitude smaller than Electron. It is already stable and should be a no brainer choice for any js+desktop app
I feel like just when you're about to understand this one thing, and then suddenly something new comes up to replace the very thing you're learning. Feels very demotivating and hopeless because how can we ever catch up
Please keep in mind that Google Chrome is NOT THE SAME as Chromium. Chromium is an open source proyect, which was used as a base to create Google Chrome, Edge and other web browsers. Please dont confuse them as they are not the same
Electron is supposedly a better option than the legacy option of Cordova, but with "web" apps there is always going to be limitations on what you can do in javascript, especially around interacting with the operating system. With my Cordova app, which also runs a web app in a container, you can't do anything to directly browse the user's storage to load/save files because the embedded web browser hosting the app has built in security features blocking the "web" application from accessing anything on the system. In order to get my app to work (on my android phone), I had to create a plugin using Java which saves the files, and Cordova had to load that plugin to use within my app. Very difficult way to develop the app IMO.
Tauri is going to be annoying to test for different OSs, especially for Linux where there is multiple webview runtimes for different Desktop Enviroments
ElectronJS is a really cool thing, coz you can create a sigle codebase for backend and a sigle codebase, written in beloved html and css for frontend. The main problem is that it uses Chromium. So, we could say that installing and electron app technically equals to installing a new browser to your system
Yeah vs code with just a couple of plugins take 700-800mb ram in my computer and it gets full very easily when I've opened a few tabs in firefox, gimp, discord and chrome just for checking my app on localhost And with unity and blender it's just 💀 It takes too much ram for a code editor
@@thatsalot3577 well, you should use a computer with higher RAM, let's say, 16GB. But actually if you use Mac, 8 GB will be enough (coz it can take some memory from ssd in swap)
@@iliasalaur “just get a better computer” is not a valid argument for a literal code editor. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have 16, many people still use windows laptops with 8 or less
@@cryptxum9683 the guy wrote that he has problems when working in VS Code with a huge bunch of applications opened, like gimp, discord, Chrome and Firefox. And that's why, "just get a better computer" is a valid argument, coz even without VS Code, those applications will eat off your memory, leaving you just 1GB free. And don't forget that VS Code isn't just a code editor (such as Sublime) but a ... let's say 'semi' IDE, with tons of functions in it (like Emmet)
@@iliasalaur unless he’s programming intensive applications (which I assume not since he mentioned localhost), why should a regular programming workflow exceed 8gb? And how many VScode extensions on average do people have? Maybe we shouldn’t single out VSC and instead also talk about chrome, but can you deny that electron is what causes VScode’s bloat. My extended point is that vscode alone isn’t responsible, but the trend use of bloated frameworks is going to drive up memory costs even further
Tried Tauri, and i think it is very good since it is not too complex and it is fast (Tauri only uses WebViews, such as Webkit on Linux and Mac and Blink+V8 on Windows, instead of packaging a whole web browser like electron does)
I'm curently build POS app using tauri + next.js. And that's fun. Just got some bug like notification suddenly missing on tauri, gonna wait for tauri 2
In some sense, Chromium could be considered a runtime dynamically-linked library dependency. So in the future it should be possible to *compile HTML+CSS+JS* statically-linked with Chromium, with some LTO (Link Time Optimization), to get a native app without bloat. It is already possible to compile Javascript to machine-code, even easier if you put type constraints (TypeScript) and forbid `eval`, and delete `Function.prototype.toString`
Hey! That is similar with the Docker system that uses your linux kernel. But, that would work for Windows 10/11. For 8 and 7? What if the PC don't have a browser?
1. We don't live in the 70s-80s bro ain't no PC that isn't coming with a browser 2. It's just grabbing the web browser the user set as a default (i believe that's what the guy meant, otherwise it would just use the OS default)
@@henrybrown5107 how so? I've read plenty of stories of people entering without a degree an making absolute bank. Also 3 personal friends of mine, all self taught developers no degrees or not completed studies/dropouts
@@xaralabosful You don't need a degree to enter the field as long as you can prove that you know what you're doing. Also, being self thought is tougher than getting a degree from a college.
Say it with me everyone: "Chromium is not the same as Google Chrome!" Also, just use PWA apps. "Installs" instantly, appears like a native app and doesn't package another browser when you already have one. Plus, you literally just use the same code as your web version.
It depends on what you want to do. People judges electron because rich companies prefer the fastest solution to create than the one that would add some quality. If you are a newbie or a solo developer in general don't go with native but don't limit yourself to something like electron. Web technologies are cool, but unless they aren't higly optimized they will cause batteries to drain faster, higher RAM consume etc. (Same thing for native, but not having 300 layers in between makes it more efficient generally)
@@Matt-dv4pu okay so I want to make a desktop application and I tried making one usinh WindowsForms first, but that framework was too limiting graphicwise Do you might have any suggestions for a framework, that has a lot of freedom for graphics and can be used by a solo developer?
No worries. You just need to download more ram.
70 IQ: download more ram
100 IQ: NoOoOoOo yOu cAn'T DoWnLoAd mOrE RaM!!
130 IQ: download more ram
easy
Sir its dedicated wam.
@@ryu_798 That had no busy making me laugh so hard
@@ryu_798 *ahem* I think you mean "dedidated"
Ah yes, the good old "Every application will eventually be written in JavaScript".
Js maxists are the lgbtq++ of programming
@@internet8080not true
It’s a business decision for many companies to go with electron than java/c since its fast deployment, and user friendly.
Users don’t care if stack electron is not great as long as its user friendly and aesthetic
And this is why every desktop app now uses at least 300mb of RAM, now matter how simple they are.
"You can build desktop applications…."
Me: Wow, somebody realised that web development is not the only type of software development in the world, and that there are still people who develop apps, gotta hear about that
"… with JavaScript"
Me: WTF
Only reason I clicked on this was too see this comment down here somewhere lol.
Mind you it isn't impossible to make a good desktop program in JavaScript, but none of the tooling is heading to a direction that would allow it. If the program architecture is 90% polyfill bloatware and designed by someone that thinks the current web frameworks are a good starting place for it, they'll either struggle mightily to get it done well, or release garbage.
Good examples would be the PC component vendor's applications for managing their hardware, they seem to only hire web devs (nothing wrong with that mind you I'm one too) for lower cost and not dedicate any time to make an architecture actually designed for the purpose.
this is why, as a MERN developer, I started learning Rust :)
Yeah just add wasm to your stack and you'll become unstoppable 🔥
Tauri my beloved🙏
that's a big brain move. I think that in a few years this language gonna be one of the most important in the programming world. I saw that Linux developers was thinking about rewriting the whole kernel in Rust, or just a part
@@bridiro iirc Rust was introduced into the kernel, but i don’t think the entire kernel will be rewritten.
Pardon but what's a "MERN developer"?
Now I understand why VS code eats all of my ram
And Discord 😢
and teams
@@jp46614 i think the new teams uses UWP or MAUI cause. Even whatsapp was on electronJs and now its on one of microsoft Frameworks...
You’re shortz videos are so useful for beginners
Glad you think so!
@@CodingWithLewis Hi, Why don't we have developers or jobs for who build desktop applications specifically or a developer shouldn't choose technologies to build applications?
I very much like apps that use tauri or edge webview since they tend to run much faster because they strip unnecessary components
Also for those wondering there are multiple webview libraries
There’s Tauri with Rust and JS/TS
Wails with Go and JS/TS
If you bother searching you’ll probably find a version for a language you’re familiar with
Isn't Edge Webview run in Chromium also?
@@swiftypopty1102 The difference is, that an app built in tauri does't package it's own version of chromium but uses the one already installed on your PC (Webview).
@@swiftypopty1102 yes but the reason edge chromium is better is because Microsoft changed the source code (open source is open source) and fixed chrome memory intensive nature. So it no hog you RAM.
I used Tauri for my internship, built an app that controls the workflow of a medical device, it was a good choice I made I think because it was really easy to use and you don't even need to learn rust as you can just ignore the default rust backend and use your own NodeJS one for example, and no rust coding needed.
Chromium will just destroy your ram in seconds
Well, if you are coding for an Atmega328p with 2kB of ram, probably you shouldn't use electron. But probably you even don't know what is an Atmega328p so...
@@iliasalaur Stop normalizing inefficient use of resources. Electron can be less inefficient if it's heavily optimized (like VSCode), but most people don't bother to. Even if they do, it'll still be slower than some other language.
@@faisalhnf may i hear some examples of "some other languages" ?)
@@iliasalaur C, C#, C++, Ruby, Python, Lua.
@@Vexxel256 good luck writing a desktop app in QT for 3 different platforms using C++.
These shorts are great. Keep it up ✊✊
I started to learn tauri yesterday. Very good system and you can use it with full rust just perfect
Tauri is awesome !
I've worked with ElectronJS por a months, and I just loved, because de benefit of a desktop app is that you won't need a Back-end server, the "back-end" is the machine of the client xd
😂😂😂
Nice info
I still in shock when i knew we actually are all writing code in a web browser 😅
As a start what is the first thing to learn
Yesss Tauri. I transferred over to it shortly after starting with Electron
hey could you tell us how you research new programming libraries or frameworks.
Bro really be digging 🕵️👀🔦🤓
google
Yuh a useful skill to have
@@shhdev googling is an art in which i suck
My job is to build desktop apps. The customer’s ram limits aren’t my problem.
That's why software is so shitty.
node-webkit aka nw.js is way better and faster than electron, plus it support a compilation from js to binary and include this files into ur js code.
And this is why most modern apps are extremely slow
I actually wrote an application in TypeScript using GTK4 as a front-end and it works really well. No electron or browser renderer involved.
good luck to get it to work in non-linux environments
Just when i was looking for how to build desktop application. Lewis you are awesome😃.
electron apparently has some silly security vulnerabilities right now, I'll have to check out tauri - thanks!
Tauri still uses a browser. It says on their website. It's just smaller bundle size because it uses whatever your OS already has...
A good atlernative is Tauri, u can us react and build desktop app that will compile to rust
Electron: Good for developers, bad for customers
There is one thing that few people know about.
One library that is the one that could fix the issues of Electron.
This library has Rust as a backend,
JS as a frontend
And Tao and Wri for the replacement fro Chromium.
It is the perfect library for building desktop apps with JS, but no one uses it.
It's called Tauri lol
what makes it better than electron?
@@ThisNils Less RAM consumption, less disk space consumption, it is not based on Chromium and other stuff.
@@vadym-beep1241 less ram consumption and disk space dont really matter to most companies (and especially not to the hobby devs).
what actually does matter is if the software has been tested extensively which is the case for electron and even more so for chromium. benchmarks might be cool to look at, but thats about it
@@ThisNils Well I have a laptop with 8GB RAM and if I run an electron app and Minecraft at the same time, my laptop will explode!
@@ThisNils
I think you are being ignorant here, if a software can offer both stability, security and speed and efficiency in the use of resources it will certainly be the preferred choice of companies, as it should be of any developer, that is precisely why Tauri is worth it. the pity in relation to Electron.
Keep up, person. Compose multi-platform is all the meat now
I used Tauri a couple of times, the bundle size and ram usage are orders of magnitude smaller than Electron. It is already stable and should be a no brainer choice for any js+desktop app
This is why I will only learn HTML
electron is good but it takes up so much ram and space because it comes with chromium so thats why i like to use tauri and yeah it is really good
Hey Lewis,Which softwares do you use to edit your videos?
Do you know elm ? Functional langage that compiles in js. Its quite good. I think you might be able to do a video about it
I know PINE!
Pine Is Not Elm😅
The world doesn't need more electron apps.
I prefer apps that aren’t made in js, maybe C apps
well, maybe REAL designers are too expensive
Someone actually did a benchmark with both
And the memory and resource hogging is the nearly same between them
I feel like just when you're about to understand this one thing, and then suddenly something new comes up to replace the very thing you're learning. Feels very demotivating and hopeless because how can we ever catch up
Please keep in mind that Google Chrome is NOT THE SAME as Chromium. Chromium is an open source proyect, which was used as a base to create Google Chrome, Edge and other web browsers. Please dont confuse them as they are not the same
imo nwjs is a lot simpler, very good for beginners
You can also use tauri (which is rust based as much as i remember)
You can also use wails with Golang, since Golang is much closer to javascript and typescript than rust, it will feel more familiar
if React-Native had Windows…
Electron is supposedly a better option than the legacy option of Cordova, but with "web" apps there is always going to be limitations on what you can do in javascript, especially around interacting with the operating system.
With my Cordova app, which also runs a web app in a container, you can't do anything to directly browse the user's storage to load/save files because the embedded web browser hosting the app has built in security features blocking the "web" application from accessing anything on the system. In order to get my app to work (on my android phone), I had to create a plugin using Java which saves the files, and Cordova had to load that plugin to use within my app. Very difficult way to develop the app IMO.
Tauri is going to be annoying to test for different OSs, especially for Linux where there is multiple webview runtimes for different Desktop Enviroments
ElectronJS is a really cool thing, coz you can create a sigle codebase for backend and a sigle codebase, written in beloved html and css for frontend. The main problem is that it uses Chromium. So, we could say that installing and electron app technically equals to installing a new browser to your system
Yeah vs code with just a couple of plugins take 700-800mb ram in my computer and it gets full very easily when I've opened a few tabs in firefox, gimp, discord and chrome just for checking my app on localhost
And with unity and blender it's just 💀
It takes too much ram for a code editor
@@thatsalot3577 well, you should use a computer with higher RAM, let's say, 16GB. But actually if you use Mac, 8 GB will be enough (coz it can take some memory from ssd in swap)
@@iliasalaur “just get a better computer” is not a valid argument for a literal code editor. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have 16, many people still use windows laptops with 8 or less
@@cryptxum9683 the guy wrote that he has problems when working in VS Code with a huge bunch of applications opened, like gimp, discord, Chrome and Firefox. And that's why, "just get a better computer" is a valid argument, coz even without VS Code, those applications will eat off your memory, leaving you just 1GB free. And don't forget that VS Code isn't just a code editor (such as Sublime) but a ... let's say 'semi' IDE, with tons of functions in it (like Emmet)
@@iliasalaur unless he’s programming intensive applications (which I assume not since he mentioned localhost), why should a regular programming workflow exceed 8gb? And how many VScode extensions on average do people have? Maybe we shouldn’t single out VSC and instead also talk about chrome, but can you deny that electron is what causes VScode’s bloat. My extended point is that vscode alone isn’t responsible, but the trend use of bloated frameworks is going to drive up memory costs even further
There’s also neutralinoJS but I used tauri mostly
Nice Video
Tauri is very fast but notification click is not working on that. And it makes it useless for you to make information based app
Have you tried Tauri or Electron 🤔
Used and liked both. Working with Rust is quite enjoyable.
Tried both, tauri produces packages way smaller, and takes less memory when running the app
Tried Tauri, and i think it is very good since it is not too complex and it is fast (Tauri only uses WebViews, such as Webkit on Linux and Mac and Blink+V8 on Windows, instead of packaging a whole web browser like electron does)
Yeah, and prefer tauri over electron
way easier to make a react app in tauri than electron
If it's going to end up bloating my pc with chromium, I'm fine not building it
That's what makes me concerned when making desktop app with electronjs. So I stick to the native language instead.
so that's how Discord's web app is basically the same as the desktop application
Yep, basically all the same code base just slightly modified, including the mobile (react native) versions.
Arch Linux does Electron right, by making you have the version installed, and not installing it again and again for each program that uses it
I'm curently build POS app using tauri + next.js. And that's fun. Just got some bug like notification suddenly missing on tauri, gonna wait for tauri 2
In some sense, Chromium could be considered a runtime dynamically-linked library dependency. So in the future it should be possible to *compile HTML+CSS+JS* statically-linked with Chromium, with some LTO (Link Time Optimization), to get a native app without bloat. It is already possible to compile Javascript to machine-code, even easier if you put type constraints (TypeScript) and forbid `eval`, and delete `Function.prototype.toString`
Download notbad.ocx?
very good. I from in brazil
What about neutralino? Same benefits as tauri but still entirely js like electron
When we call him out for calling electron lightweight he uses it as new content idea kekw
But Can I make game engine like Unity or Godot out of JavaScript?
Sure if you dont care about performance sure!
Neutralino JS is also a great option, it works really well with smaller application size and memory footprint
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@judedavis92 anything???
@@paladinuserfem what do you mean?
Talk about flutter plzz
electron amd react with atom symbol.
when a chemistry student becomes a developer this happens
Qt for C++💪💪💪
🧐🤔 still needs optimization, but could mean near native execution
Next framework packs whole Windows OS.
VS Code is written in ElectronJS btw
i love electron
Modifying your apps using other forms of chromium that's more lightweight like thorium
oh wow, built in telemetry
Tauri looking promising but why would developers learn rust while electron providing a single stack (js).
gotta micromanage every last bit of that memory you're using
Electron is laggy
VSCode does NOT use Electron. They forked a small part of it
How you create an application on desktop using visual studio code
Hey! That is similar with the Docker system that uses your linux kernel.
But, that would work for Windows 10/11. For 8 and 7? What if the PC don't have a browser?
1. We don't live in the 70s-80s bro ain't no PC that isn't coming with a browser
2. It's just grabbing the web browser the user set as a default (i believe that's what the guy meant, otherwise it would just use the OS default)
When you know how to use a hammer everything looks like a nail
ElectronJS ships Chromium (for frontend) and Nodejs (for backend)
If you ever feel stupid, just remember this
We used to do this with Flash...
Can you do a video explaining if one needs a degree to enter the field?
If you want to find a job, then yeah, you need a degree. But you don't necessarily need degree to learn programming...
@@henrybrown5107 how so? I've read plenty of stories of people entering without a degree an making absolute bank. Also 3 personal friends of mine, all self taught developers no degrees or not completed studies/dropouts
@@xaralabosful You don't need a degree to enter the field as long as you can prove that you know what you're doing. Also, being self thought is tougher than getting a degree from a college.
@@henrybrown5107 many tech giants like microsoft and google don’t require a degree to enter but it makes your chances to enter higher
Wait, is it just me or did the progress bar really overflow after the chrome memes?
I have made an app with a combination of Google app script. How I can make a software ?
Talk more about tauri
Fun fact: Edge is also based on chromium.
Does Tauri use monads though? :^)
One huge downside: “It’s slow”
Can someone explain to me what's the electron on this video mean, i mean it's that same electron on atom? How it's works
Very great app are made with electron. But they are slow as hell and try to enshittify easily. I'm lookin at you "MS Teams"!
See, that's why if you're big brain you only package the entire Skia with your application :)
Say it with me everyone: "Chromium is not the same as Google Chrome!"
Also, just use PWA apps. "Installs" instantly, appears like a native app and doesn't package another browser when you already have one. Plus, you literally just use the same code as your web version.
When is Firefox going to make its own what ever it is that chromium has?
If possible where is the source of your information
what about Dart ,flutter and Xamarain
Or you can use C and SDL2 as always :)
I would like to use flutter :)
Ofc rust comes out of nowhere
I prefer Tauri over electron
No multi window support and out dialogue 😂
So how what should I use to build desktop applications? I'm a newbie really need some help!🙃
It depends on what you want to do.
People judges electron because rich companies prefer the fastest solution to create than the one that would add some quality.
If you are a newbie or a solo developer in general don't go with native but don't limit yourself to something like electron.
Web technologies are cool, but unless they aren't higly optimized they will cause batteries to drain faster, higher RAM consume etc. (Same thing for native, but not having 300 layers in between makes it more efficient generally)
@@Matt-dv4pu okay so I want to make a desktop application and I tried making one usinh WindowsForms first, but that framework was too limiting graphicwise
Do you might have any suggestions for a framework, that has a lot of freedom for graphics and can be used by a solo developer?
Electron is killing the desktop app space and is the reason so many people have bad experiences with modern software. The solution is Tauri 🙏
Or we use Flutter and than ship a nativ application for every os.