Really good Chad, the purpose of JV and channel lock when done correctly, is to limit your miss to one side of the course, though Marcus teaches to hit a draw, more of his teaching is about learning to control the club face and being able to feel when you’re not. Each individual will find one works better for them than another, the point is we need to thank these guys so much for giving us teaching that would’ve cost us thousands of dollars 15 years ago
@@GolfTestDummy you know Chad, one thing Marcus teaching helped me realize about the JV swing, is the reason people struggle to hit driver with JV is they put the ball too far forward in their setup
I play right handed, and have an injured left ankle. Since I injured it 4 years ago, I have not been able to play much because I cannot put weight on my left side. Would any of these swings possibly be an answer to my situation?
I’m in the JV program now. Please help. So, if I put the ball more in the middle or back of my stance with driver, I’ll have more success? Please give me your insights. I’m struggling badly with driver.
Yes; I’ve been revisiting all 3 of these lately. I must say that the Edblad way is seeming the most comfortable to me personally. It just seems to be less “manufactured” than the other two, also requiring less swing thoughts IMO. With all due respect to Jim, JH and Steve - Marcus also appears to be the best credentialed in terms of golfing achievements outside the teaching sphere.
Looks great! It would be interesting to see the AOA in the different metods. It feels like the further back you put the ball in your stance will give you a steeper AOA than further forward..?
Hi Chad, Good video .. as always.. clearly those three golf swings are promoted as swings that produce a consistent 'starting' direction of golf ball flight... The baseline mechanics/geometry of the ball flight resultant ease of application I think is the aspect that is most important. In order to produce a 'draw' ball flight its imperative to have the clubhead tracking in to out at impact.. and the clubface closed to the path at impact ...I know there was a direction of thinking a few years back where an 'open' clubface at impact with an in to out attack path would produce a draw ball flight.. that never happened once in the testing I was involved in years back with the Iron Byron swing robot.. every time the clubface was open to the delivery path ..being in to out at impact.. the ball went straight to the right.. a straight block ball flight.. conversely when the clubface was closed to the in to out clubhead path at impact.. the ball flight was that of a Draw bias ball flight.. the testing was undisputably non-contestable. To that end.. I developed Channel Lock with a geometry dynamics of applied knowledge of cold hard testing resultants.. that being the clubface must be closed at impact with an in-to-out attack path in order to produce a draw-biased ball flight. Adding to that conclusion resultant .. it was clearly obvious that in order to produce the required in-to-out clubhead delivery path at impact.. the shoulder girdle had to be 'closed' at impact .. In order to produce an easily constructed shoulder closed at impact bias consistently.. it became clearly evident that the positioning of the ball at impact was the key to locking the shoulder girdle into a consistently closed positioning at impact. The further the ball was positioned back at address/impact.. the easier it was to maintain a closed shoulder girdle at impact .. and the determination of where the best positioning of the golf ball was to be at impact in order to guarantee the shoulder girdle being closed at impact was just a result of determining actually how far back the ball 'could' be positioned at impact to absolutely guarantee the shoulders would 'always' be closed at impact.. which turned out to be for me.. right on the toe of the trail foot. Now.. by the positioning of the ball off the trail foot toe.. biomechanically/dynamically if a normal rotational mass unwinding in the downswing was to occur... the shoulder girdle would have been opening coming into impact which would have occurred because of the extreme back positioning of the golf ball .. hence the need to keep the body mass distribution in the trail vertical axis at impact. What occurred by keeping the body mass positioned at impact in the trail vertical axis.. was the occurrence of a more independent free arm swing process independent of the body. As well with such an extreme back positioning of the golf ball at address in the CL swing geometry.. you need as much utilization of the clubs' available loft at impact in order to not produce an inordinately low ball flight post impact.. which you actually experienced in your demonstration.. had you stayed more in your trail vertical axis at impact you would have achieved a normal height ball flight. The JV method is a good swing process.. I just see it requiring high discipline to not let the shoulders open at impact with so much weight positioned into the lead side at impact.. and with a ball position forward of body center at impact .. the ME swing process I see having a lot of parallels with the Channel Lock swing methodology.. more emphasis on the clubface being closed at impact and a definite intention to keep the shoulders closed at impact.. and the ME swing is a virtual clone of CL. Chad, your channel will gain significant popularity going forward if you keep up your unbiased investigatory journey of all things Golf Swing... don't let anyone get you going down a 'specific' swing mechanics road.. I have never met a golfer who has the same 'specific' body dynamics function or application as another golfer.. so to that end just keep doing what you have been doing to date.. I think you are doing a great job for the rank and file Golfers. One thing.. do you do your videos before being called to lunch or dinner..lol.. it seems you are always in a rush to get your videos finished .. I can assure you your subscribers could tollerate longer videos from you.. your content is certainly worthy of more video time exposure. cheers JH
Awesome as always to hear from you JH. I can't tell you how enjoyable every chat is, and I very much appreciate your input, especially in a public forum. Toward the end of your comments, you spoke about staying the course, not being swayed, and people that would try and pull me off my path. I absolutely struggle with this. Constantly. Doubt can easily creep in when you're open to new ideas and suggestions. It's a double edged sword. You NEED that open mind, willing to put ego aside and allow the possibility that you may not have everything yet. But that same open mind means that the status quo can manipulate your thoughts and create a tidal wave of doubt in your mind. For instance, the back ball position and the intention of severe in to out swing. I remember in your earlier CL videos, you spoke about drawing the trail arm STRAIGHT back, as in beside you, 90 degrees to the target line. Of course, that wasn't real, but as an intent, it sounds insane. But...... it works. And you proved it. And you were steadfast in what you knew, but open enough to try a radical. That is a rare combination.
@@GolfTestDummy Hi Chad , There will never be a 'one swing fits all golfers' .. sure in the World Professional ranks the majority of those guys look as if they are using a similar set of swing principles.. and to a large degree they are.. but.. those across the board swing principals have never provided for those golfers.. and all those who preceeded them .. a golf swing that can consitently start a golf ball in the same direction . Probably the best conventional structure golf swing today is that of Rory Macilroy.. his swing exhibits all the 'visuals' of a super cordinated amalgum of body componentry in motion. However.. he has the same inherant problem every other world tour player has.. he can hit alernate shots.. with all clubs.. that can miss the target area both to the left..and right.. he just manages to hit less of those shots on most occasions than his competitors.. but he has no defense mechanism against that inconsistency of starting direction ... I think that is because with a conventional ball position the chances of the shoulders being open slightly at impact ...or closed ... is just too difficult to control... With the Channel Lock swing geometry setup of the ball address/impact position being off the trail foot just makes it biomechanically difficult to have the shoulders open at impact.. the body simply has to position itself with closed shoulders coming into impact in order to make any type of contact with the ball. Having said all that.. I personally will not stop investigating other swing processes going forward.. I would just get bored into submission only concentrating on one specific type of swing mechanics.. for me the enjoyment of the practice tee is the delving into all types of swing permutations.. the 'ultimate' swing mechanics is still out there.. and while guys like you and I keep looking for it.. it has a chance of being discovered one day ...just keep on looking. cheers JH
Very well explained JH. So does the open stance pre-load the hips so that when the backswing is complete the upper body can unwind without the need to bump and open the hips to start the downswing ? Thanks
@@gordonwood1594 Hi Gordon, I remember the revelation of the 'New Laws of Ball Flight' that was being promoted by a group of teachers some years back.. how they ever came to the conclusions they did relative to an in to out swing path and 'open' clubface producing a draw ball flight is really surprising. They clearly never did any Robot testing of their theories.. I actually saw a story about 2 years ago that said those suggestions of an open face in to out swing path theory producing draw flight had been debunked and that the promoters of the theory had retreated from promoting such. I hope to get back to my old 'active' state in the very near future...although I must admit I enjoy just tuning into Golf Test Dummy and seeing what he is doing experimentation-wise.. Chad has the same investigative inquisitiveness that I have about all things golf swing mechanics. cheers JH
Played 2 myrtle courses using the Edblad method . It worked great with the driver off a tee and not so good when hitting from the fairway. It is very easy to overcook the flip .The low point will be inconsistent usually resulting in a pull draw or a push. The flip definitely adds distance but at a cost .
This is great! I'm not familiar with the other swings other than Marcus'. My practice with the Edblad method really shows itself if I remember to push with my back hand and swing out. Marcus said it should feel as if it's all one side of the body (the back side). When it happens correctly, it's a powerful feeling ball strike.
@@GolfTestDummy I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's these types of simple methods in golf that are tailored for the masses. Golf instruction has been so bad for the avg golfer for so long. But its changed for the better. When I found AJ Bonar well over a decade ago, I got better rather quickly...I'm still a bogey golfer but the days of shooting 130 and losing 3-4 sleeves ended quickly. We don't need a Dustin Johnson swing or a Mickelson short game, we just want to be able to play well and have fun while hitting some shots that are memorable. So your videos are valuable in that regard.
This is exactly what I've been saying for years. The majority of golfers want to shoot in the 80s and have fun, and they can't or won't devote hours a day, everyday, for years practicing.
Great stuff! Fun to compare and contrast those 3. I’ve been aa “Locker” for about 8 years and appreciate your high praise of JH. Like most of the golfing world though, you did not mention the greatest ball striker of all time Moe Norman, the true master of the single plan swing. Did you give that a try over at Graves Golf.
Went through similar path of multiple swings and found a benefit not expected. Over time club head awareness became apparent and helps with the next step of club face awareness.
Great video! Just discovered Marcus about a month ago and you've given me a key to improving my take on his swing even more. How about you do a video on the variations of these swings for driver?
Great as usual Chad. I've tried JV and CL in the past and had initial success with both. Eventually struggled with left side discomfort with JV and couldn't get on with CL. I Recently started trying to play the ball inside the trail foot like I do with my short game and just make a smooth swing and found i could hit pretty well. I may have found the "Goldie Locks" of ball position for me but it shows that everyone has a different low point for their body?. Keep up the Marcus Edblad content as its similar to what I'm trying to achieve so finding it very interesting. Thanks again.
Really great video. I have tried the JV style as well as JuJu (current). don't even care about distance anymore but just trying to find that swing i can repeat as i get older... great stuff! Cheers!
@@MrRichfarrell I like the repeatability of the swing. Still blocking a bit but I had to cancel the monthly sub as i got a youngster in college. Will continue to work but am intrigued by Edblad system. Was an absolute JV guy but just never found the distance that i have now. cheers!
GTD, I have tried all of these and had success with them all as well. My humble opinion is that some people will respond better focusing on the right side and some will respond better on the left. The whole body hits the ball but many people play better choosing a side. Could be a dominant side thing or a dominant eye thing, or a combination of the other sports you have played who knows? Sure is a lot of fun to experiment though... youthemangtd!
Roy I couldn't agree more. That's why I have such an issue with people teaching "THE way". Different strokes for different folks. We need options to find what suits us best.
I used to have a dicky right hip so the CL didn’t suit me. I tried JV and tended to block out right a lot, so I rotated my aim left and problem solved. Now I have a new right hip joint and a left side torn rotator cuff , I will try Marcus Edblad when the course is wide and open and revert to Eureka when it is narrow.
In all cases your release is excellent. Nice, free flowing unimpeded circles from the inside where the arms and wrists are creating the speed. Seems like that essential was present in all three methods. Marcus would tell you you did a great job of your fast hand passing your slow hand.
Great presentation, very informative and also entertaining. It just goes to show that 'all roads lead to Damascus' as the saying goes. Is that a Texas accent you got there? If I'm wrong it's because I'm a Limey!
To me the Edblad method can be more easily applied to all clubs and is more consistent. The real question: Which method has the quicker ramp up with good results? Marcus does note that it took him a while to groove his swing and will not happen overnight, but even doing the core fundamentals I noticed a much higher ball flight and distance with my driver using his method. And you need to do a cool intro like Marcus' old videos with the classical music playing while walking into the morning mist.
When you rewatch notice your lack of “stillness” with JV swinging. You were moving all over the place. Other than that I enjoyed this comparison. I’ve been doing the JV swing for 6years and it’s won me a little $$ in tournaments
Don I just started the JV program and wondering if I made the wrong choice after watching this video. I’m only a month in, and it’s been very difficult for me to repeat his swing style consistently. Also, I can’t ever hit driver at all using it. It’s a complete mess. I asked him for help, and he was annoyed that I was skipping steps. He doesn’t want me to golf for months while I’m learning but that’s not possible as I’m in a Tues night golf league from way before I signed up with him. Talk me off the ledge! I’m feeling like I wasted money. Any tips for hitting driver with his technique? I can barely hit it off the tee with the closed stance and hitting down on it.
The first CL swing was shorter and your wrists cocked directly behind the backswing path of your elbows at the top which is a major key to power and then you swung down on the same line which is why you hit it far but out to the right but with your wrist releasing directly behind your turn immediately from the top.. The paintbrush motion is what allowed your arms to align better with the first CL swing as long as you get it short enough and didn't swing too far. Once you swung further on the 2nd CL swing you crossed the line at the top and your arms were out of alignment with your turn and became much less efficient because you couldn't release the club directly behind your turn from the top as you did in the 1st CL swing. The JV swings were just not JV swings really at all but were more weight forward versions of the other swings. The JV swing has the lead arm mostly (almost entirely) just swinging from the shoulder socket with the trail arm being swung on a very limited arc in a fashion reflective of the lead arm motion such that the hands are just kind of lifted up over the trail shoulder and there is no wind up of the mid section such as you had with all the JV swings so, all in all, they were completely different from the JV method and were at best a fairly dissimilar hybrid. So the swings all had pretty similar characteristics except for the first CL swing where your arms moved differently as mentioned above and the JV swings where weight was forward and you fell back to strike the ball and had your trail leg moving out towards the ball but in general the body and arm motion was similar in all of them but the 1st CL swing. The 1st CL swing is a testament to what I have told you about improving your performance with certains clubs. If you shorten your arm swing, (and use a paintbrush type motion) your trail elbow and wrist cock will be in better alignment to swing directly into the ball and you will not lose power but your performance throughout bag will improve. Doing that and keeping your arms from going as far inside as the CL swing calls for would enable you to swing down the line and have good power with all clubs by allowing the trail arm to release in a more efficient manner directly from the top. Cheers.
Hi Chad. I think you and everyone who is watching need to choose one and try that for quite some time and then try another for some time to even have a chance to find what's best for them. Your brain must be on overload trying to separate the different methods. I'm sure all the methods work but they have come from different people therefor they have been born from different fundamentals. I get really angry when someone says somethings not working without even trying it or trying to understand it. All methods work if you understand them. My mission is to help golfers understand why things happen no matter what "method" they decide to follow. Video coming in a few days...
Marcus you could not be more correct. I know that my reviews only last for several videos, but since I put out 1 video per week, 8 videos is 8 weeks of work. And it's not 1 day per week, it's several days each week. So you can't just go try something on the range one day, hit a half bucket of balls, and say it doesn't work. Really, 2 months of work is not long enough either. I say this in my videos all the time. You have to try for a long period of time, and you must embrace the entire philosophy.
Some, haha. Some are. It can be frustrating to put all your words, graphics, video, etc. up and do your best to get the points across, only to have some viewers watch part of the video, or skip to the end, or click off the video half way through. When we make the videos, we make it as a whole, with every sentence being needed. If you don't watch the whole thing and pay attention, you could miss a lot.
Enjoyed the video Chad, I’ve done the JV and CL had success with both more with CL 1 under par. Had trouble being consistent with driver with both set ups. On the course I primarily play I really need to shape the shot draw just doesn’t work all the time. I ran across a guy by the name of Darrell Klassen who says everyone has a God given natural swing. I like to experiment as well and his method is different. I’ve only been playing it for a week but am having some success with draws and fades with woods down. Driver fade is easy but draw is real inconsistent. You might check him out it’s different than anything you’ve done so far and for the most part it’s easy. I think watching all the different swings helps people find what works for them. Keep them coming.
Thanks a bunch Larry. I've seen some of Darrells videos in the past. Pretty good stuff. I tend to agree that most people have a natural inclination toward a swing profile.
I use the JV method!, it works great! I would never use a swing using my trail side. You need to keep your back shoulder back, no traditional shoulder turn.This feels like you can't get your hands through but you can. This takes some practice. Both swings were not the correct Veneto method. You need to keep your legs and upper body(chest) still. This forces your lead arm to dominate the swing. Thanks for showing the other methods but not for me.
What did we learn? I learned that you have excellent hand-eye coordination! You could literally swing like John Daly and I bet you could hit the ball well. 😀
Channel Lock has changed my life. Consistent, automatic, accurate, higher and longer. Hitting at least one club longer. 6-iron, 170+, 8iron, 150+, gap wedge, 110-120 depending how much I choke down. And, I’m 76 yrs young!
200 yards 6 iron. You can reach many Par5 in two. Hi Chad, good to see you revisting Jim Venetos swing techques to compare with others. Feel like going back the memory lane of your great, painstaking 12 weeks of your JVGA study, plus some funny trivia of yours. Sweet. Still recall your emotional response to your fans at the end of your JV course about "why did you quit JV club? " LOL. Carry on with your persistent exploration for the most repeatable swing technique in your nice studio that can guarantee finding the fairway. By the way, look up the current issue of Golf Digest reporting that the two golf legends driving distance in their prime. Interesting.
Manuel de La Torre’s approach is so simple and repeatable, and allows for differing physical capabilities. Moe Norman switched to the de La Torres method before he died.
Good stuff Chad! All three swings look similar to me, just by watching what you're doing and not paying attention to the differences in intention and setup. Don't get me wrong, differences in setup and intention can, and do produce different results. Have you tried combining all of these, and adding in a bit of Moe? CL Back ball position, JV weight more on the lead foot, Moe single axis setup (single axis referring to starting with the shaft aligned with the trail forearm at address, which is where it ends up at impact anyway). Then, keeping all of that, use the ME idea of using your hands/arms to create speed, bend/extend hard, and way out right. Feel like you are pulling it back inside as far as you can with trail hand, and then throwing it out to the right as far as you can with the trail hand, much like the channel in CL.
same, I tried all of them ,and then some. The most natural and most comfortable i feel is with my own swing, which usually produces a draw, But some time too much draw and a push right. so I tried many swings to just hit it straight. the only one I could be repeated simply was Marcus"s, So My now sing is 60% mine and 40% Marcus. and that manly is having the lead arm bent in the back swing( can't do straight lead hand.) I think it has to do with My 10 finger/Baseball grip( have nerve damage,CAN'T OVER LAP. )
Interesting...so many differences and at the same time similar as they are all arm drives body motion swings. Here a challenge, compare one of these to a body drives arm motion swing like Gankas or Lines, throw in a Moe Norman for fun.
Right blocks are the killer for me on these swing methods. I can play good with the them on an easier golf course, but if the course is narrow I have to take too many penalty drops. I have to follow Ignition Golf philosophy most of the time; play a fade. Any swing that favors a draw requires more practice and timing, even Marcus says "it's not easy ".
So….could it be this: I am a right handed everything, except….baseball and golf. When I play golf left handed, I feel like the dominant side is still my RH lead side, so my strikes still feel like I’m playing RH. I think that is why the JV swing works very well for me, as my Left side is merely supporting my dominant RH side on a LH swing. I’m striking the ball much better now, with less effort. But I could be wrong…
Marcus does shift the weight, back/in/up to the trail foot, down/out gradually to the lead foot following the club path, so the whole body weight goes a bit forward and out during the stroke. But the back hand push is determining the tempo and the body will naturally follow. _My limited comparison/understanding of some key elements of the swings below_ ⬇ *Marcus Edblad* * power from the arms and push of trail hand overtaking lead hand * neutral or open stance * swing out as much as you can, more than you think is reasonable, the release closes the club face (trail hand passing lead hand), rotation compensates crazy out path * arm path separate from rotation, start with arms down before rotation or you will slice. * never roll the hands, but can scoop, especially with driver, also release EARLIER than you think with the driver which has a different swing than the irons * he puts the ball very far in the back of his stance, but you don't have to though it makes it easier to get a natural down on the ball motion. * Another good one he promotes is to practice doing the wrong thing, hit slices, hooks, hit with open/closed face, bad path see what happens so you know your misses. * Practice impact often. Lay a tee a bit behind the ball, make sure you can hit the ball without hitting the tee. *Jim V* * neutral or closed stance * pivot, keep weight on lead foot always, shoulders angled closed, keep shoulders closed until the hit, back foot angled, grip club after pivot * stillness, minimal movement in head, legs during takeback, swing * power from "gravity" (later in downswing), shoulders kept angled which together with lead arm/hand controls the swing path to a draw * ball location determines how big the draw is, back bigger, front less *JD channel lock* (Haven't used enough, but) * closed stance * weight on the back foot, * ball far back (?) * club face closed to path * swing in the channel in to out You can do the loaded (Count Yogi ?) back take of the club for any swing drag club, hands before club head in back swing, gives some loaded spring power, but risk is in face control.
I tried SNT a while back. I like Tom's style and he makes great content. I didn't do an official review, but in a few videos a while back I mentioned that after a few days, my back was really getting worse.
Tried so many ways to get some control on golfswing. I started 60 YO and it is totally impossible to do a ”correct/traditional shot. Too stiff and slow. Started try Marcus way and now I hit the ball pretty far and same direction every time. Not beautiful but I don’t care. Thanks to Edblad
Hi chad, always love your content. If you ask me, you do look like bubba. You look more like bubba with channel lock. you do look bubba with edblad method, but you really look like bubba with channel lock. the way you finish like with you way at the right foot. it's bubbaesque.
I feel like there is no better or perfect style. You have to find a style that you are comfortable with so is repeatable. The first thing to keep in mind is that you want to use your left arm or right arm as your dominant arm. As in which hand do you want to guide the club into the ball? Marcus is all about the right hand, and Jim is about the left arm. Do you want to sling the golf club or throw your golf club? And 2nd important thing is how you want to recenter during the swing. Ultimately it comes down to finding a consistent low point. U need to find a swing where “you” can find a consistent low point. There is no secret to hitting a draw, if u are facing the ball u need to hit the ball at 4oclock and towards 10oclock while the club face is closed towards the target. You don't enter at 3 o'clock and exit at 9oclock. And most slicers enter 3 or 4 clocks but exit 8oclock. If u want your stock shot to be a draw, find a swing that u can enter 4 and exit 10.
All this tells me is that there are many different ways to swing a club to get good results. The important thing is: so long as it’s repeatable for the shot shapes you desire and it’s safe on your body, use it. Nothing and no one else matters.
Hi Chad great show as promised! Pick and choose and keep best what works for you. For myself as I said before all I do now is essentially to swing the head of my club over my tail shoulder; under my trail elbow; and over my lead shoulders. My entire body responds very nicely to this one swing thought I saw several video of Marcus and complimented him on many of them. However Marcus talks about scooping in one of his videos and so i told him I don’t like the thoughts of scoping the ball either with the right or left hand. He seemed offensive over this. So I will no longer bother him. What say you? To scoop or not to scoop that is the question? Cheers⛳️😃👍❤️🥂
Thanks Thomas. Everything gets interpreted by whoever is hearing it, right? We're all just different kinds of filters really. What I took from the scoop is that he's really trying to get golfers to unload the wrists fully, rather than holding angles too long, as a result of all of us having "hold the lag" drilled into our brains for years. So he's trying to exaggerate to effect change. I may be wrong, but again, it's just my interpretation.
@@GolfTestDummy also with his stance and inside backswing I think he uses an open club face and swings his club out on his downswing as far outside as he can feel. Are you doing this now?
Have you looked at overhand golf the holy grail yet? Might be one worth trying and seeing your results would be interesting compared to the other methods you've tried
Thank you, Chad for experimenting with all these different systems. When you go play golf just for fun and you`re not trying different systems, is there a style you prefer, or do you just use your own swing that you`re comfortable with?
Many thanks. I've had that question a few times, and it's not easy for a lot of people to understand, but the ugly truth is; I have no idea what MY swing is. My swing has no identity. It's the price I pay, and I knew it going in, so I can't claim ignorance. But I don't actually have a swing that I'd call "stock" or normal. After constantly changing, sometimes drastically, I lose one very crucial component. Assuredness over the ball.
Ok, what possessed you to side track on this Edblad deal. Was so looking forward to getting deeper into what you were experiencing and even onto woods and driver. You have already reviewed these others and quite honestly I don't see the similarities you did even in the ball flights, face angle closed to club path creates a draw so even traditional swings create draws when they are closed to club path. Sorry man don't mean to sound critical just was looking for the further review. Keep doing it like you feel is best my friend. I am working on Edblad myself so just eager to compare some notes on what I am getting and feeling etc.
Oh I'm not side tracking, I promise. But after last week's video, I had so many people reach out to me AND Marcus about Channel Lock, that I had to get this one done so that I could move on. Don't worry, I'll be on this review for a while.
You hit beautiful shots with each method; albeit, a practice style is required to begin the dial in of the method. So, it comes down to what your body and mind combine to produce a repeatable quality golf shot. So, which one for you generates solid contact and a easily repeatable swing. It seems to fall upon the bottom of the swing, and the hand - eye coordination that best fits the individual, so your anatomy and swing plane that is the most easily repeated should indicate which swing method is best for your individual requirements. So, which is it, which one can you jump on from zero, and flush it easily and repeatable....??
It demonstrates that you don’t have to be perfect. There isn’t a perfect swing. A person just has to find what they can repeat as naturally as possible.
Chad all three of these methods promote a ball position off of the trail foot. When I do that the ball flight is a really draw. You might say to me that I am twisting the shaft which shuts the face. If so then how does one get a closed face to path impact and still get reasonable height on the shot ? Thanks
Great question. First though, to clarify, JVGA doesn't have a stock rear ball position, Marcus isn't on the back foot, but just back of center, and Channel Lock IS on the back foot. To your question; The start line of the ball, initial launch angle, and curvature are all the result of the clubface at impact relative to the swing path. If the ball position is back, it promotes an inside to out path, but doesn't guarantee it, because the golfer can manipulate the path, often without even sensing it. To get a ball that starts a bit right, then turns back left to the center, for a right handed golfer, the clubface must be slightly closed to the path, not the target line. So maybe put some tape down for the target line and then some for the intended path, and at setup, set the face square to the swing path. If you hit that path, and keep the face square, you should get a pretty straight push or block. Then, try closing the face slightly, swing again, without manipulation, and see if it turns a bit. If it's coming out low, it could be because at impact your wrist conditions or clubface conditions are delofting the club, but it could also be that the ball is back too far.
@@GolfTestDummy Chad first of all thank you for clarifying the ball positions of the three methods outlined in your video.Also thank you for suggesting that the club face should be square to the path to start with and then incrementally start closing the club phase to path until the desired results are obtained. My mistake was I was addressing the ball with a clubface Square to target line and then swinging on and in > out club path which was creating a low hook. So I guess the club face at impact should be open to the target line but closed to the path. Does the amount the club face is closed to path change as the club loft changes ? Also, how does the ball get height in the CL method with the ball positioned so far back and with a closed stance ? Thanks again for the quick reply
Alright! Great to hear we're making progress. As far as getting some height, with CL, you're on the back foot and you stay there. Then swinging in the channel, which is intended to be a pretty strong in to out path, it should encourage and even force some side bend, which will tilt the shoulders, and help with the angles. Apart from that, cheat the ball position forward a bit so that you're not delofting the club as much.
Welp, im wondering about Darrell Klassens swing as a Golf Test Dummy trial swing. Like Marcus Edblad, he realy emphasizes using your hands. He claims that the arms are the enemy of the golf swing. He also stresses swinging out to his the ball. Would be a good bridge from Marcus's swing.
I stumbled upon the Y shape golf swing. Supposedly there is an e book you can buy through the CZcamsr. Some of the videos are more than a decade old. Seems legit. And simple.
I feel like all these gimmick swings can work as a band aid for most weekend warriors but the truth is that they produce inconsistent results and reduce your options for other shots that you may need to play. Nothing beats good fundamentals. There's a reason that practically no one is using a stack and tilt or channel lock or whatever, in the PGA. Distance is great and a stock draw will certainly help with that but a 7 iron Carrying 185 and running out to 203 isn't exactly optimal for good players. Anyway, great video. Love the channel!
Thanks Mike, and good fundamentals are always a great thing for all sports. With golf though, it makes me ask the question, what are the fundamentals, really? The basic grip, which can be modified a bit and still be in the same basic category. But beyond that, there are lots of players that play from a closed, square, and open stance, feet wide apart or close together, arms driven versus leg driven, etc. The fundamentals in golf really get to a grey area, especially when even PGA certified instructors can't agree.
Hey Big Bayou👍🇺🇸 nice to see your still alive and doing well I hope. Swings like ch lock and Marcus Edblad are what I like esp for my irons. Thanks Crash test. 👍
@@GolfTestDummy Slam dunk analysis there Chad.. I have never seen one professional golfer .. with the exception of Moe Norman.. who could apply any variation of the so-called' Fundamentals of the golf swing with any consistent control of reliable ball fligh starting direction..not one. Even the best players in World Golf throughout history have not been able to use the so-called' correct fundamentals' of a golf swing to eliminate the double cross to the intended ball flight direction requirement they have so importantly required at a specific stage of importance in the playing of a hole in a tournament. I stood behind arguably the greatest player of all time.. Jack Nicklaus.. on the 17th hole at the Australian Golf club during an Australian open.. he was leading the tournament.. his std shot with the driver was an ever so slight straight push late leak fade.. which he hit from an open stance. He was clearly aiming center fairway to position himself slightly right of the center fairway for his approach shot to the green .. the flag was extreme right side of the green.. he flat pulled his drive 30 yards left into a dense clump of high trees.. the difference between his 'intended' line and his resultant line landing spot was 50 yards.. That occurrence was from a player who was probably the most diligent applicator of the principal theory of 'Sound Fundamentals' of the Golf swing...those considered required fundamentals of golf swing mechanics just failed miserably when they were needed. I believe the so-called Fundamentals of the golf swing are significantly flawed because they are so allied to the traditional forward of body center ball position at address/impact.. that positioning just leaves too much variable potential at impact for the clubface to be tracking either .. out to in.. or.. in to out.. at impact.. With an extreme trail foot ball positioning the Body Biomechanics reactionary requirements are virtually preordained to be only able to track the club head in to out at impact. I can understand why no Top line Tour player of today plays the Stack and Tilt golf swing.. it is virtually designed to exacerbate the instance of the dragged or pulled shot because of its extreme forward body mass loading at address/impact.. which also makes it virtually impossible to hit a strongly flighted in to out attack path power draw ball flight.. The reason no player has been seen using a Channel Lock type swing process.. is simply because no one in the World teaching fraternity knows anything about it yet. I'm not knocking the so-called 'Correct Fundamentals' of the modern golf swing.. hey .. I would love to be able to play the type of Golf Jack.. Rory and Tiger have played with those types of fundamentals applications.. I am just suggesting that if either of those players could actually' rely' on a specific 'starting' direction of a golf shot.. then the 'Fundamental' that allowed that to occur would have to be suggested as that of the 'Correct Fundamental' application. in my humble opinion that is. cheers JH
JH I was thinking about something the other day, because once I started hitting shots with with all lead side, then all trail side, I was having questions pop in my head. Why in the hell do we put the ball in a position that requires us to fold our trail elbow and then deliver that folded elbow past our center of mass, to the other side of our body, like the instructors are teaching today? It requires a pretty high degree of flexibility and athleticism, and I'm not saying it's not possible. There are many pros that have that intention nowadays, and they pull it off to varying degrees, but why? With that model, you're literally trying to cross your limb from the trail side to the lead side. It's almost like trying to walk with your legs crossed. It's a recipe for creating an in to out, steep path from the word go. I feel like a center ball position, or even a slightly forward ball position was just an arbitrary thing that started a long time ago, and rather than allowing ourselves to change that variable, we have spent decades trying to remedy the side effects of that ball position. Like taking 17 pills for our ailments because each pill introduces a new problem, rather than just starting over from square 1 and changing the diet that created the original sin.
I spend way too much time on YT watching golf swing videos (guess I need a life LOL). IMO Mike Adams and Terry Rowles (Bioswing Dynamics) are the closest to figuring out how each of us should really swing. They take measurements and make recommendation based upon those measurements and how one's body actually move. Please give their approach a look and possibly try their protocols.
Too bad all 3 of these swings have caused me to groove such an extreme inside to out swing path that I cannot stop shanking...3iron through wedge all off the hosel. Ill randomly pure one and all the misses are hooks
This is the first time I ever heard a Marcus,, yet i have always had a Marcus kind of swinger , never knew his swing was on YT,, , I always draw,, some time to much,, so I tried CL,, got to much Yoga position for me to feel a free swing,, Tried Jim's now for a week,, having good results,, but as my own swing, I see too much draw even on Jim's swing.. maybe not still enough,, trail arms still kicks in on the last part of the swing.. I also can do av Moe swing, with the sharf across the middle of my R hand,, again straight hits , but i don't like the forward lean,, i'M GOING BACK TO MY own swing as it gives me the same results as Jim's.. and Moe's but I have a bit more turn and push though..That's what is feels like. I can't fade for quits!! it fades if I shank.. and I used to be a big slicer at the beginning when I was a 34 HC,, Now I'm a 9 but want the holly Grail of a straight and a fade at will.. My real problem I think is the fact that I use and can only use a baseball grip, due to neve damage,. which I'm sure , changes the dynamic's of the whole swing and I'm still trying to find the balance between the grip and swing..
Thanks for the comment, Sam, and I'm glad to hear that you have found some great improvement over the years. I switched about a year or so ago to a 10 finger grip because of wrist issues, and I can never go back. I know it supposedly costs you distance, but it saves me loads of pain.
@@GolfTestDummy meanwhile, Marcus hitting 300+ yards sitting on a chair... : czcams.com/video/1moaQKwhjx8/video.html The vid is in Swedish, but he's trying to demonstrate that it's possible to get enough speed without most lower body participation.
I bet you could do any swing method (for the most part) and get good results. Since you’re a very good Golfer, your subconscious will find a way to square the ball.
Well I don't know if I'm a "very good" golfer, but I'll definitely take the compliment and the positive vibes. I can get down on myself from time to time, so the comment is much appreciated.
From what i could tell from Jim's swing, he doesn't turn hardly at all, if any in his back swing ,where you are making a full turn. He more less seems to be just picking up his arms. I could be wrong, but that's what i see anyway.
Good work there Chad ….the comparisons was fun to watch but ….there’s always a but ….with out putting in sometime with Channel Lock and maybe revisit JV system a little more …was it your best performance with them Maybe 🤔 The one thing you forgot to mention with CL was the club face position If it was lined up to your swing path the ball flight will be as it was in your demonstration a push…couldn’t see the club face alignment JH always said to close the face to your target and then swing across your target line Ball flight laws JH is a outstanding person and a pleasure to talk to as you found out and his Channel Lock system is a great system for a consistent ball flight and taking out half the course …and no cool aid is ever served on his practice tee for anyone to drank …just honest words for all to hear and try You showed us 3 splendid ways to move the ball from point A to point B with similar accuracy and with the same theme ….swing inside out Winner winner chicken dinner for all 3 It’s up to everyone to find out what works for them but the inside out swing and playing the ball back somewhere in your setup will eliminate the slice …. I hope we all can agree with that Your doing a great job my friend with your channel and I look forward to seeing the next videos Hope your ok with the storm in the Carolina areas Again…appreciate your time and effort and now I’m a big Marcus fan You da man 👍⛳️
Hi Steve, JH, Chad from Hurricane Ally in South West Florida. Things are starting to get better by the day. My home had zero damage even though we lost 5-6 palm trees which all missed the house. No power yet, but have a big generator which is helping a lot. Our course is still closed, but the aqua driving range is open. As far as the open stance with CL is concerned, we all went through phases of trying various body/foot/shoulder alignment. Really you can have your feet open to the target line, but that makes it more difficult (for me) to have my shoulders closed closed at impact. I have settled on Steve's setup. Feet and shoulders closed to the target line. How much? Some. The club face should be down the line or slightly closed. The more closed, the more draw. You must concentrate on swinging to "right field" however. The 5 o'clock nose is the key for me. If I don't maintain that, I get a straight push. Without CL I would never hit a draw period. I will never change from CL. Do I hit bad shoots? Hell yes. Who doesn't? At this stage of my golf life I am very thankful to have found CL. I am 75 years old and started playing 15 years ago. My sincerest gratitude to JH, Steve Walters, and all the rest of the Lockers who have helped me along the way. Cheers FJ
@@pigaman1 Good to hear your safe from a storm of that magnitude….here in Louisiana a home generator is like having a 2nd auto…must have The feet position is a personal comfort and confidence feeling as you know….the shoulder line is the body part we all need to understand and setup correctly Hope your power gets back on soon …how’ll did they do it in the horse and buggy days 🤣
i have tried lots of different swings, conclusion = they all work BUT if you put a shitty swing on any of them you get a undesirable result. Trick is too find a swing that has the least bad result.
Ah Chad...finally you sip from the CL kool-aid heh heh. I hope you do a "ctrl-alt-delete" after each method because if all of them show up at the same time on the first tee---you're either going to collapse in a heap or you're going to Kyle Birkshire it 500 yards ha ha
Hey Chad you are running out of "swings". Next move..................Ju Ju Swing. That has an extreme "paint brush" back swing. It seems to really send it with the Driver.
Love this! I still incorporate channel lock in my swing when needed!! I'm interested in the Power Slot swing method now! I've been tinkering with it just a tad! 🐊🏌🦅🇺🇲❤️
Really good Chad, the purpose of JV and channel lock when done correctly, is to limit your miss to one side of the course, though Marcus teaches to hit a draw, more of his teaching is about learning to control the club face and being able to feel when you’re not.
Each individual will find one works better for them than another, the point is we need to thank these guys so much for giving us teaching that would’ve cost us thousands of dollars 15 years ago
Amen to that, Jim!
@@GolfTestDummy you know Chad, one thing Marcus teaching helped me realize about the JV swing, is the reason people struggle to hit driver with JV is they put the ball too far forward in their setup
I play right handed, and have an injured left ankle. Since I injured it 4 years ago, I have not been able to play much because I cannot put weight on my left side. Would any of these swings possibly be an answer to my situation?
I’m in the JV program now. Please help. So, if I put the ball more in the middle or back of my stance with driver, I’ll have more success? Please give me your insights. I’m struggling badly with driver.
Fantastic video! Opened my eyes to "unorthodox" golf swings. You described them great
Yes; I’ve been revisiting all 3 of these lately.
I must say that the Edblad way is seeming the most comfortable to me personally.
It just seems to be less “manufactured” than the other two, also requiring less swing thoughts IMO.
With all due respect to Jim, JH and Steve - Marcus also appears to be the best credentialed in terms of golfing achievements outside the teaching sphere.
All good points here. And it is really simple.
Good stuff continues to flow from your channel. I’m always entertained and learn something new.
That's so great to hear Brian. Helps to remove the doubts I have from time to time.
Your athletic ability is amazing. Changing swing types in succession with good results is astounding. Hats off to you!
Looks great! It would be interesting to see the AOA in the different metods. It feels like the further back you put the ball in your stance will give you a steeper AOA than further forward..?
Thank you for showing the whole dang world that it's ok to think out of the box..... As long as you have fun!
Can you go to alignment on these methods? Very difficult to get a consistent alignment for correct ball flight
Love this video... I've tried Channel Lock and JVGA with modest success... On to Edblad... Thanks for comparing.
Best of luck and more videos coming!
Well done/explained, Sir ... thanks so much for all your hard work. We all benefit from GTD =)
Gracias George! You guys make it worthwhile.
Chad , you just keep getting better and better , but I think your natural talent is trumping any particular golf technique 😊
Haha, well I'll take that as a compliment, and bit of a downer as well. That means I'm not really doing a proper test.
Hi Chad,
Good video .. as always.. clearly those three golf swings are promoted as swings that produce a consistent 'starting' direction of golf ball flight...
The baseline mechanics/geometry of the ball flight resultant ease of application I think is the aspect that is most important.
In order to produce a 'draw' ball flight its imperative to have the clubhead tracking in to out at impact.. and the clubface closed to the path at impact ...I know there was a direction of thinking a few years back where an 'open' clubface at impact with an in to out attack path would produce a draw ball flight.. that never happened once in the testing I was involved in years back with the Iron Byron swing robot.. every time the clubface was open to the delivery path ..being in to out at impact.. the ball went straight to the right.. a straight block ball flight.. conversely when the clubface was closed to the in to out clubhead path at impact.. the ball flight was that of a Draw bias ball flight.. the testing was undisputably non-contestable.
To that end.. I developed Channel Lock with a geometry dynamics of applied knowledge of cold hard testing resultants.. that being the clubface must be closed at impact with an in-to-out attack path in order to produce a draw-biased ball flight.
Adding to that conclusion resultant .. it was clearly obvious that in order to produce the required in-to-out clubhead delivery path at impact.. the shoulder girdle had to be 'closed' at impact ..
In order to produce an easily constructed shoulder closed at impact bias consistently.. it became clearly evident that the positioning of the ball at impact was the key to locking the shoulder girdle into a consistently closed positioning at impact.
The further the ball was positioned back at address/impact.. the easier it was to maintain a closed shoulder girdle at impact .. and the determination of where the best positioning of the golf ball was to be at impact in order to guarantee the shoulder girdle being closed at impact was just a result of determining actually how far back the ball 'could' be positioned at impact to absolutely guarantee the shoulders would 'always' be closed at impact.. which turned out to be for me.. right on the toe of the trail foot.
Now.. by the positioning of the ball off the trail foot toe.. biomechanically/dynamically if a normal rotational mass unwinding in the downswing was to occur... the shoulder girdle would have been opening coming into impact which would have occurred because of the extreme back positioning of the golf ball .. hence the need to keep the body mass distribution in the trail vertical axis at impact.
What occurred by keeping the body mass positioned at impact in the trail vertical axis.. was the occurrence of a more independent free arm swing process independent of the body.
As well with such an extreme back positioning of the golf ball at address in the CL swing geometry.. you need as much utilization of the clubs' available loft at impact in order to not produce an inordinately low ball flight post impact.. which you actually experienced in your demonstration.. had you stayed more in your trail vertical axis at impact you would have achieved a normal height ball flight.
The JV method is a good swing process.. I just see it requiring high discipline to not let the shoulders open at impact with so much weight positioned into the lead side at impact.. and with a ball position forward of body center at impact .. the ME swing process I see having a lot of parallels with the Channel Lock swing methodology.. more emphasis on the clubface being closed at impact and a definite intention to keep the shoulders closed at impact.. and the ME swing is a virtual clone of CL.
Chad, your channel will gain significant popularity going forward if you keep up your unbiased investigatory journey of all things Golf Swing... don't let anyone get you going down a 'specific' swing mechanics road.. I have never met a golfer who has the same 'specific' body dynamics function or application as another golfer.. so to that end just keep doing what you have been doing to date.. I think you are doing a great job for the rank and file Golfers.
One thing.. do you do your videos before being called to lunch or dinner..lol.. it seems you are always in a rush to get your videos finished .. I can assure you your subscribers could tollerate longer videos from you.. your content is certainly worthy of more video time exposure.
cheers JH
Awesome as always to hear from you JH. I can't tell you how enjoyable every chat is, and I very much appreciate your input, especially in a public forum. Toward the end of your comments, you spoke about staying the course, not being swayed, and people that would try and pull me off my path. I absolutely struggle with this. Constantly. Doubt can easily creep in when you're open to new ideas and suggestions. It's a double edged sword. You NEED that open mind, willing to put ego aside and allow the possibility that you may not have everything yet. But that same open mind means that the status quo can manipulate your thoughts and create a tidal wave of doubt in your mind. For instance, the back ball position and the intention of severe in to out swing. I remember in your earlier CL videos, you spoke about drawing the trail arm STRAIGHT back, as in beside you, 90 degrees to the target line. Of course, that wasn't real, but as an intent, it sounds insane. But...... it works. And you proved it. And you were steadfast in what you knew, but open enough to try a radical. That is a rare combination.
@@GolfTestDummy Hi Chad ,
There will never be a 'one swing fits all golfers' .. sure in the World Professional ranks the majority of those guys look as if they are using a similar set of swing principles.. and to a large degree they are.. but.. those across the board swing principals have never provided for those golfers.. and all those who preceeded them .. a golf swing that can consitently start a golf ball in the same direction .
Probably the best conventional structure golf swing today is that of Rory Macilroy.. his swing exhibits all the 'visuals' of a super cordinated amalgum of body componentry in motion.
However.. he has the same inherant problem every other world tour player has.. he can hit alernate shots.. with all clubs.. that can miss the target area both to the left..and right.. he just manages to hit less of those shots on most occasions than his competitors.. but he has no defense mechanism against that inconsistency of starting direction ...
I think that is because with a conventional ball position the chances of the shoulders being open slightly at impact ...or closed ... is just too difficult to control...
With the Channel Lock swing geometry setup of the ball address/impact position being off the trail foot just makes it biomechanically difficult to have the shoulders open at impact.. the body simply has to position itself with closed shoulders coming into impact in order to make any type of contact with the ball.
Having said all that.. I personally will not stop investigating other swing processes going forward.. I would just get bored into submission only concentrating on one specific type of swing mechanics.. for me the enjoyment of the practice tee is the delving into all types of swing permutations.. the 'ultimate' swing mechanics is still out there.. and while guys like you and I keep looking for it.. it has a chance of being discovered one day ...just keep on looking.
cheers JH
Love it JH. Well said.
Very well explained JH. So does the open stance pre-load the hips so that when the backswing is complete the upper body can unwind without the need to bump and open the hips to start the downswing ? Thanks
@@gordonwood1594 Hi Gordon,
I remember the revelation of the 'New Laws of Ball Flight' that was being promoted by a group of teachers some years back.. how they ever came to the conclusions they did relative to an in to out swing path and 'open' clubface producing a draw ball flight is really surprising.
They clearly never did any Robot testing of their theories.. I actually saw a story about 2 years ago that said those suggestions of an open face in to out swing path theory producing draw flight had been debunked and that the promoters of the theory had retreated from promoting such.
I hope to get back to my old 'active' state in the very near future...although I must admit I enjoy just tuning into Golf Test Dummy and seeing what he is doing experimentation-wise.. Chad has the same investigative inquisitiveness that I have about all things golf swing mechanics.
cheers JH
Played 2 myrtle courses using the Edblad method . It worked great with the driver off a tee and not so good when hitting from the fairway. It is very easy to overcook the flip .The low point will be inconsistent usually resulting in a pull draw or a push. The flip definitely adds distance but at a cost .
Yeah, the only way I can think of to not "overcook" it is to think toe up on the follow through.
Great!! Not pointless. Just Awsome. You are incredible👍👍👍👍
Thanks so much!
This is great! I'm not familiar with the other swings other than Marcus'. My practice with the Edblad method really shows itself if I remember to push with my back hand and swing out. Marcus said it should feel as if it's all one side of the body (the back side). When it happens correctly, it's a powerful feeling ball strike.
Absolutely. I'm trying to work out some kinks at the moment, but hoping to get on track soon.
@@GolfTestDummy I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's these types of simple methods in golf that are tailored for the masses. Golf instruction has been so bad for the avg golfer for so long. But its changed for the better. When I found AJ Bonar well over a decade ago, I got better rather quickly...I'm still a bogey golfer but the days of shooting 130 and losing 3-4 sleeves ended quickly. We don't need a Dustin Johnson swing or a Mickelson short game, we just want to be able to play well and have fun while hitting some shots that are memorable. So your videos are valuable in that regard.
This is exactly what I've been saying for years. The majority of golfers want to shoot in the 80s and have fun, and they can't or won't devote hours a day, everyday, for years practicing.
Great stuff! Fun to compare and contrast those 3. I’ve been aa “Locker” for about 8 years and appreciate your high praise of JH. Like most of the golfing world though, you did not mention the greatest ball striker of all time Moe Norman, the true master of the single plan swing. Did you give that a try over at Graves Golf.
Went through similar path of multiple swings and found a benefit not expected. Over time club head awareness became apparent and helps with the next step of club face awareness.
Yep
Great video! Just discovered Marcus about a month ago and you've given me a key to improving my take on his swing even more. How about you do a video on the variations of these swings for driver?
I'm thinking driver might be my next video.
Great as usual Chad. I've tried JV and CL in the past and had initial success with both. Eventually struggled with left side discomfort with JV and couldn't get on with CL. I Recently started trying to play the ball inside the trail foot like I do with my short game and just make a smooth swing and found i could hit pretty well. I may have found the "Goldie Locks" of ball position for me but it shows that everyone has a different low point for their body?. Keep up the Marcus Edblad content as its similar to what I'm trying to achieve so finding it very interesting. Thanks again.
Will do, Russell! I'm still trying to work out the kinks, but plenty more coming.
Very interesting video, thanks!
No problem Peter!
Really great video. I have tried the JV style as well as JuJu (current). don't even care about distance anymore but just trying to find that swing i can repeat as i get older... great stuff! Cheers!
How's the JuJu working ?
I have taken a few lessons with Brad.
Man thats really just a great way to say it. A swing you can repeat as you get older.
@@MrRichfarrell I like the repeatability of the swing. Still blocking a bit but I had to cancel the monthly sub as i got a youngster in college. Will continue to work but am intrigued by Edblad system. Was an absolute JV guy but just never found the distance that i have now. cheers!
GTD,
I have tried all of these and had success with them all as well. My humble opinion is that some people will respond better focusing on the right side and some will respond better on the left. The whole body hits the ball but many people play better choosing a side.
Could be a dominant side thing or a dominant eye thing, or a combination of the other sports you have played who knows? Sure is a lot of fun to experiment though... youthemangtd!
Roy I couldn't agree more. That's why I have such an issue with people teaching "THE way". Different strokes for different folks. We need options to find what suits us best.
I used to have a dicky right hip so the CL didn’t suit me. I tried JV and tended to block out right a lot, so I rotated my aim left and problem solved. Now I have a new right hip joint and a left side torn rotator cuff , I will try Marcus Edblad when the course is wide and open and revert to Eureka when it is narrow.
It's good to be able to have choices, and then switch as needed.
Thanks Chad another great video.
Much appreciated George!
In all cases your release is excellent. Nice, free flowing unimpeded circles from the inside where the arms and wrists are creating the speed. Seems like that essential was present in all three methods. Marcus would tell you you did a great job of your fast hand passing your slow hand.
Thanks Ray! Hand speed is good with irons, but I need to step my driver game up.
@@GolfTestDummy Me too!
Great presentation, very informative and also entertaining. It just goes to show that 'all roads lead to Damascus' as the saying goes. Is that a Texas accent you got there? If I'm wrong it's because I'm a Limey!
To me the Edblad method can be more easily applied to all clubs and is more consistent.
The real question: Which method has the quicker ramp up with good results?
Marcus does note that it took him a while to groove his swing and will not happen overnight, but even doing the core fundamentals I noticed a much higher ball flight and distance with my driver using his method.
And you need to do a cool intro like Marcus' old videos with the classical music playing while walking into the morning mist.
Haha, agreed on the intro. As to the ramp up, I suppose it would depend on where you're starting from that would be the main determiner in that.
Have you tried Marcus's swing with driver yet? An upcoming video I hope?
Driver will be the next video. I've had some mixed results, but I'm moving in the right direction.
When you rewatch notice your lack of “stillness” with JV swinging. You were moving all over the place. Other than that I enjoyed this comparison. I’ve been doing the JV swing for 6years and it’s won me a little $$ in tournaments
Yeah, I haven't practiced stillness in a couple of years, so I'm very rusty.
Don I just started the JV program and wondering if I made the wrong choice after watching this video. I’m only a month in, and it’s been very difficult for me to repeat his swing style consistently. Also, I can’t ever hit driver at all using it. It’s a complete mess. I asked him for help, and he was annoyed that I was skipping steps. He doesn’t want me to golf for months while I’m learning but that’s not possible as I’m in a Tues night golf league from way before I signed up with him. Talk me off the ledge! I’m feeling like I wasted money. Any tips for hitting driver with his technique? I can barely hit it off the tee with the closed stance and hitting down on it.
Don, had the same issues with the jv swing, love to see somebody to do the driver swing
The first CL swing was shorter and your wrists cocked directly behind the backswing path of your elbows at the top which is a major key to power and then you swung down on the same line which is why you hit it far but out to the right but with your wrist releasing directly behind your turn immediately from the top.. The paintbrush motion is what allowed your arms to align better with the first CL swing as long as you get it short enough and didn't swing too far. Once you swung further on the 2nd CL swing you crossed the line at the top and your arms were out of alignment with your turn and became much less efficient because you couldn't release the club directly behind your turn from the top as you did in the 1st CL swing.
The JV swings were just not JV swings really at all but were more weight forward versions of the other swings. The JV swing has the lead arm mostly (almost entirely) just swinging from the shoulder socket with the trail arm being swung on a very limited arc in a fashion reflective of the lead arm motion such that the hands are just kind of lifted up over the trail shoulder and there is no wind up of the mid section such as you had with all the JV swings so, all in all, they were completely different from the JV method and were at best a fairly dissimilar hybrid.
So the swings all had pretty similar characteristics except for the first CL swing where your arms moved differently as mentioned above and the JV swings where weight was forward and you fell back to strike the ball and had your trail leg moving out towards the ball but in general the body and arm motion was similar in all of them but the 1st CL swing.
The 1st CL swing is a testament to what I have told you about improving your performance with certains clubs. If you shorten your arm swing, (and use a paintbrush type motion) your trail elbow and wrist cock will be in better alignment to swing directly into the ball and you will not lose power but your performance throughout bag will improve. Doing that and keeping your arms from going as far inside as the CL swing calls for would enable you to swing down the line and have good power with all clubs by allowing the trail arm to release in a more efficient manner directly from the top. Cheers.
I like the Edblad method the best. It seems the most natural. I only discovered him a few days ago but was drawn to the way he smashes it with ease.
He's a great guy and a great coach.
Doesn't this depend on your natural anchor? ie Edblade rear Venetos front. Front anchors may struggle with Edblad and vis versa
Hi Chad, Love the videos. Would love to see you review ZEN Golf too. Cheers from South Africa
Thanks Werner! I have a Playlist on my channel where I did a review of Zen Golf. Several videos.
Hi Chad. I think you and everyone who is watching need to choose one and try that for quite some time and then try another for some time to even have a chance to find what's best for them.
Your brain must be on overload trying to separate the different methods. I'm sure all the methods work but they have come from different people therefor they have been born from different fundamentals.
I get really angry when someone says somethings not working without even trying it or trying to understand it. All methods work if you understand them.
My mission is to help golfers understand why things happen no matter what "method" they decide to follow. Video coming in a few days...
Marcus you could not be more correct. I know that my reviews only last for several videos, but since I put out 1 video per week, 8 videos is 8 weeks of work. And it's not 1 day per week, it's several days each week. So you can't just go try something on the range one day, hit a half bucket of balls, and say it doesn't work. Really, 2 months of work is not long enough either. I say this in my videos all the time. You have to try for a long period of time, and you must embrace the entire philosophy.
@@GolfTestDummy I know you say that but are the golfers listening?
Some, haha. Some are. It can be frustrating to put all your words, graphics, video, etc. up and do your best to get the points across, only to have some viewers watch part of the video, or skip to the end, or click off the video half way through. When we make the videos, we make it as a whole, with every sentence being needed. If you don't watch the whole thing and pay attention, you could miss a lot.
Great comparison videos.
Much appreciated.
Enjoyed the video Chad,
I’ve done the JV and CL had success with both more with CL 1 under par. Had trouble being consistent with driver with both set ups. On the course I primarily play I really need to shape the shot draw just doesn’t work all the time. I ran across a guy by the name of Darrell Klassen who says everyone has a God given natural swing. I like to experiment as well and his method is different. I’ve only been playing it for a week but am having some success with draws and fades with woods down. Driver fade is easy but draw is real inconsistent. You might check him out it’s different than anything you’ve done so far and for the most part it’s easy. I think watching all the different swings helps people find what works for them. Keep them coming.
Thanks a bunch Larry. I've seen some of Darrells videos in the past. Pretty good stuff. I tend to agree that most people have a natural inclination toward a swing profile.
I use the JV method!, it works great! I would never use a swing using my trail side. You need to keep your back shoulder back, no traditional shoulder turn.This feels like you can't get your hands through but you can. This takes some practice. Both swings were not the correct Veneto method. You need to keep your legs and upper body(chest) still. This forces your lead arm to dominate the swing. Thanks for showing the other methods but not for me.
What did we learn? I learned that you have excellent hand-eye coordination! You could literally swing like John Daly and I bet you could hit the ball well. 😀
Channel Lock has changed my life. Consistent, automatic, accurate, higher and longer. Hitting at least one club longer. 6-iron, 170+, 8iron, 150+, gap wedge, 110-120 depending how much I choke down. And, I’m 76 yrs young!
Wow that's amazing Parke! 76 and killing the ball. Great stuff!!
Feel like your weight is going straight down thru your heal, stops any right push for me and great contact
200 yards 6 iron. You can reach many Par5 in two. Hi Chad, good to see you revisting Jim Venetos swing techques to compare with others. Feel like going back the memory lane of your great, painstaking 12 weeks of your JVGA study, plus some funny trivia of yours. Sweet. Still recall your emotional response to your fans at the end of your JV course about "why did you quit JV club? " LOL. Carry on with your persistent exploration for the most repeatable swing technique in your nice studio that can guarantee finding the fairway. By the way, look up the current issue of Golf Digest reporting that the two golf legends driving distance in their prime. Interesting.
Thanks so much CK, and I'll look that magazine up!
I'm hooked on the Manuel de la Torre method after recently discovering him
I've got a couple of videos that deal with him as a subject, but it's not a "formal review". Great teacher.
Me too. Ball position reminds me of Marcus's - not too forward. I like the idea of balance.
Manuel de La Torre’s approach is so simple and repeatable, and allows for differing physical capabilities.
Moe Norman switched to the de La Torres method before he died.
Good stuff Chad! All three swings look similar to me, just by watching what you're doing and not paying attention to the differences in intention and setup. Don't get me wrong, differences in setup and intention can, and do produce different results. Have you tried combining all of these, and adding in a bit of Moe? CL Back ball position, JV weight more on the lead foot, Moe single axis setup (single axis referring to starting with the shaft aligned with the trail forearm at address, which is where it ends up at impact anyway). Then, keeping all of that, use the ME idea of using your hands/arms to create speed, bend/extend hard, and way out right. Feel like you are pulling it back inside as far as you can with trail hand, and then throwing it out to the right as far as you can with the trail hand, much like the channel in CL.
Thanks James! I hadn't made any plans to try and combine them, but who knows what the future holds?
Man, I love your stuff! Which one of these methods felt most effortless?
Thanks FG! Man, that's tough. I like that paintbrush technique, but really, Marcus's approach just feels instinctive.
Instinctive - yes I agree
It just feels more comfortable
More of a “go with the flow” technique
Jim Venetos Is the best golf swing in the world.💪 Ciao dall'Italia 👍
same, I tried all of them ,and then some. The most natural and most comfortable i feel is with my own swing, which usually produces a draw,
But some time too much draw and a push right. so I tried many swings to just hit it straight. the only one I could be repeated simply was Marcus"s,
So My now sing is 60% mine and 40% Marcus. and that manly is having the lead arm bent in the back swing( can't do straight lead hand.) I think it has to do with My 10 finger/Baseball grip( have nerve damage,CAN'T OVER LAP. )
Interesting...so many differences and at the same time similar as they are all arm drives body motion swings. Here a challenge, compare one of these to a body drives arm motion swing like Gankas or Lines, throw in a Moe Norman for fun.
Haha, man that sounds like some real gymnastics. I might have to try that at some point.
I would love to see your take on the 4 mm by Joe dante,that would be cool.
The 4 mm is a new one to me. Haven't heard of it.
Right blocks are the killer for me on these swing methods. I can play good with the them on an easier golf course, but if the course is narrow I have to take too many penalty drops. I have to follow Ignition Golf philosophy most of the time; play a fade. Any swing that favors a draw requires more practice and timing, even Marcus says "it's not easy ".
Ignition Golf is Paul Wilson right? Yeah, I've seen a metric ton of his stuff.
@@GolfTestDummy correct. I don't use Paul's method, but I do think he's right on how incredibly hard a consistent draw is.
So….could it be this: I am a right handed everything, except….baseball and golf. When I play golf left handed, I feel like the dominant side is still my RH lead side, so my strikes still feel like I’m playing RH. I think that is why the JV swing works very well for me, as my Left side is merely supporting my dominant RH side on a LH swing. I’m striking the ball much better now, with less effort. But I could be wrong…
Marcus does shift the weight, back/in/up to the trail foot, down/out gradually to the lead foot following the club path, so the whole body weight goes a bit forward and out during the stroke. But the back hand push is determining the tempo and the body will naturally follow.
_My limited comparison/understanding of some key elements of the swings below_ ⬇
*Marcus Edblad*
* power from the arms and push of trail hand overtaking lead hand
* neutral or open stance
* swing out as much as you can, more than you think is reasonable, the release closes the club face (trail hand passing lead hand), rotation compensates crazy out path
* arm path separate from rotation, start with arms down before rotation or you will slice.
* never roll the hands, but can scoop, especially with driver, also release EARLIER than you think with the driver which has a different swing than the irons
* he puts the ball very far in the back of his stance, but you don't have to though it makes it easier to get a natural down on the ball motion.
* Another good one he promotes is to practice doing the wrong thing, hit slices, hooks, hit with open/closed face, bad path see what happens so you know your misses.
* Practice impact often. Lay a tee a bit behind the ball, make sure you can hit the ball without hitting the tee.
*Jim V*
* neutral or closed stance
* pivot, keep weight on lead foot always, shoulders angled closed, keep shoulders closed until the hit, back foot angled, grip club after pivot
* stillness, minimal movement in head, legs during takeback, swing
* power from "gravity" (later in downswing), shoulders kept angled which together with lead arm/hand controls the swing path to a draw
* ball location determines how big the draw is, back bigger, front less
*JD channel lock* (Haven't used enough, but)
* closed stance
* weight on the back foot,
* ball far back (?)
* club face closed to path
* swing in the channel in to out
You can do the loaded (Count Yogi ?) back take of the club for any swing drag club, hands before club head in back swing, gives some loaded spring power, but risk is in face control.
You could add stack & tilt by Tom Saguto and Rob Cheney to this mix. Rob's stock shot is a push draw.
I tried SNT a while back. I like Tom's style and he makes great content. I didn't do an official review, but in a few videos a while back I mentioned that after a few days, my back was really getting worse.
JV swing seems to be your comfort zone! With channel lock you need to aim/close the face down the intended line (12noon)!! 🐊
Tried so many ways to get some control on golfswing. I started 60 YO and it is totally impossible to do a ”correct/traditional shot. Too stiff and slow. Started try Marcus way and now I hit the ball pretty far and same direction every time. Not beautiful but I don’t care. Thanks to Edblad
Hi chad, always love your content. If you ask me, you do look like bubba. You look more like bubba with channel lock. you do look bubba with edblad method, but you really look like bubba with channel lock. the way you finish like with you way at the right foot. it's bubbaesque.
I feel like there is no better or perfect style. You have to find a style that you are comfortable with so is repeatable. The first thing to keep in mind is that you want to use your left arm or right arm as your dominant arm. As in which hand do you want to guide the club into the ball? Marcus is all about the right hand, and Jim is about the left arm. Do you want to sling the golf club or throw your golf club? And 2nd important thing is how you want to recenter during the swing. Ultimately it comes down to finding a consistent low point. U need to find a swing where “you” can find a consistent low point. There is no secret to hitting a draw, if u are facing the ball u need to hit the ball at 4oclock and towards 10oclock while the club face is closed towards the target. You don't enter at 3 o'clock and exit at 9oclock. And most slicers enter 3 or 4 clocks but exit 8oclock. If u want your stock shot to be a draw, find a swing that u can enter 4 and exit 10.
Yep, I've said it a hundred times. Find a way to create a repeating low point, and then use it to create whatever English on the ball you want.
All this tells me is that there are many different ways to swing a club to get good results. The important thing is: so long as it’s repeatable for the shot shapes you desire and it’s safe on your body, use it. Nothing and no one else matters.
I can agree with that.
MEST (Marcus Edblad Swing Theory) has a strong position with leverage
Hi Chad great show as promised! Pick and choose and keep best what works for you.
For myself as I said before all I do now is essentially to swing the head of my club over my tail shoulder; under my trail elbow; and over my lead shoulders. My entire body responds very nicely to this one swing thought
I saw several video of Marcus and complimented him on many of them.
However Marcus talks about scooping in one of his videos and so i told him I don’t like the thoughts of scoping the ball either with the right or left hand. He seemed offensive over this. So I will no longer bother him.
What say you? To scoop or not to scoop that is the question? Cheers⛳️😃👍❤️🥂
Thanks Thomas. Everything gets interpreted by whoever is hearing it, right? We're all just different kinds of filters really. What I took from the scoop is that he's really trying to get golfers to unload the wrists fully, rather than holding angles too long, as a result of all of us having "hold the lag" drilled into our brains for years. So he's trying to exaggerate to effect change. I may be wrong, but again, it's just my interpretation.
@@GolfTestDummy makes sense to me
Thanks
@@GolfTestDummy also with his stance and inside backswing I think he uses an open club face and swings his club out on his downswing as far outside as he can feel. Are you doing this now?
Have you looked at overhand golf the holy grail yet? Might be one worth trying and seeing your results would be interesting compared to the other methods you've tried
Oh yes, I've definitely seen Overhand's stuff. I might be changing directions this coming year...
How about testing the juju swing?
I might do that in the future. Had several people suggest it.
Thank you, Chad for experimenting with all these different systems. When you go play golf just for fun and you`re not trying different systems, is there a style you prefer, or do you just use your own swing that you`re comfortable with?
Many thanks. I've had that question a few times, and it's not easy for a lot of people to understand, but the ugly truth is; I have no idea what MY swing is. My swing has no identity. It's the price I pay, and I knew it going in, so I can't claim ignorance. But I don't actually have a swing that I'd call "stock" or normal. After constantly changing, sometimes drastically, I lose one very crucial component. Assuredness over the ball.
Would like to see all 3 with driver.I could never drive the ball well with CL or JV .
Driver is my problem too with these swings. Although I use them from time to time, I always play a fade with driver. It's just easier for me.
Driver was difficult with JV for sure.
I've seen quite a few people that draw irons and fade driver. Gotta be something to that.
@@GolfTestDummy Look at Bubba! Always fades driver.
Ok, what possessed you to side track on this Edblad deal. Was so looking forward to getting deeper into what you were experiencing and even onto woods and driver. You have already reviewed these others and quite honestly I don't see the similarities you did even in the ball flights, face angle closed to club path creates a draw so even traditional swings create draws when they are closed to club path. Sorry man don't mean to sound critical just was looking for the further review. Keep doing it like you feel is best my friend. I am working on Edblad myself so just eager to compare some notes on what I am getting and feeling etc.
Oh I'm not side tracking, I promise. But after last week's video, I had so many people reach out to me AND Marcus about Channel Lock, that I had to get this one done so that I could move on. Don't worry, I'll be on this review for a while.
@@GolfTestDummy Maybe the Pastor can give you an exorcism if you're "Possessed", Chad!
@@GolfTestDummy Glad to hear it, thanks as always for the response. Thanks for always responding, feels like we are part of what your are doing.
You guys are totally part of it, which is why I made this video, haha.
You hit beautiful shots with each method; albeit, a practice style is required to begin the dial in of the method. So, it comes down to what your body and mind combine to produce a repeatable quality golf shot. So, which one for you generates solid contact and a easily repeatable swing. It seems to fall upon the bottom of the swing, and the hand - eye coordination that best fits the individual, so your anatomy and swing plane that is the most easily repeated should indicate which swing method is best for your individual requirements. So, which is it, which one can you jump on from zero, and flush it easily and repeatable....??
Good questions. I'm not sure I know honestly.
Need to close face of club slightly in channel lock.
Yeah, I think that's what was off.
It demonstrates that you don’t have to be perfect. There isn’t a perfect swing. A person just has to find what they can repeat as naturally as possible.
That's a great summary.
My dad always said to me, you can only swing how your body allows. my left knee is screwed so i’m favouring the Marcus Edblad swing.
Agreed. My right wrist is garbage and I can't bend it all the way, so I do the best with what I have.
Chad all three of these methods promote a ball position off of the trail foot. When I do that the ball flight is a really draw. You might say to me that I am twisting the shaft which shuts the face. If so then how does one get a closed face to path impact and still get reasonable height on the shot ? Thanks
Great question. First though, to clarify, JVGA doesn't have a stock rear ball position, Marcus isn't on the back foot, but just back of center, and Channel Lock IS on the back foot. To your question; The start line of the ball, initial launch angle, and curvature are all the result of the clubface at impact relative to the swing path. If the ball position is back, it promotes an inside to out path, but doesn't guarantee it, because the golfer can manipulate the path, often without even sensing it. To get a ball that starts a bit right, then turns back left to the center, for a right handed golfer, the clubface must be slightly closed to the path, not the target line. So maybe put some tape down for the target line and then some for the intended path, and at setup, set the face square to the swing path. If you hit that path, and keep the face square, you should get a pretty straight push or block. Then, try closing the face slightly, swing again, without manipulation, and see if it turns a bit. If it's coming out low, it could be because at impact your wrist conditions or clubface conditions are delofting the club, but it could also be that the ball is back too far.
@@GolfTestDummy Chad first of all thank you for clarifying the ball positions of the three methods outlined in your video.Also thank you for suggesting that the club face should be square to the path to start with and then incrementally start closing the club phase to path until the desired results are obtained. My mistake was I was addressing the ball with a clubface Square to target line and then swinging on and in > out club path which was creating a low hook. So I guess the club face at impact should be open to the target line but closed to the path. Does the amount the club face is closed to path change as the club loft changes ?
Also, how does the ball get height in the CL method with the ball positioned so far back and with a closed stance ? Thanks again for the quick reply
Alright! Great to hear we're making progress. As far as getting some height, with CL, you're on the back foot and you stay there. Then swinging in the channel, which is intended to be a pretty strong in to out path, it should encourage and even force some side bend, which will tilt the shoulders, and help with the angles. Apart from that, cheat the ball position forward a bit so that you're not delofting the club as much.
@@GolfTestDummy In CL where is the club face aimed at address ?
I'm not 100 percent sure honestly. Haven't studied it enough to know.
Stick with @GolfwithMarcusEdblad !!!
Welp, im wondering about Darrell Klassens swing as a Golf Test Dummy trial swing. Like Marcus Edblad, he realy emphasizes using your hands. He claims that the arms are the enemy of the golf swing. He also stresses swinging out to his the ball. Would be a good bridge from Marcus's swing.
I think he says the lead arm is the enemy. The trail arm is the throw.
Edblad gets my vote
👍🏻
I stumbled upon the Y shape golf swing. Supposedly there is an e book you can buy through the CZcamsr. Some of the videos are more than a decade old. Seems legit. And simple.
That sounds awfully familiar. I might have to refresh my memory.
@@GolfTestDummy Phil Hurrle
To me the Chanel lock and Jim’s swing is very similar?
I think you look more natural with the Edblad swing
It feels pretty natural too. Not a lot of retraining my body.
He also seems to rotate and uses a wrist release
He's very fluid but powerful. Pretty amazing.
I feel like all these gimmick swings can work as a band aid for most weekend warriors but the truth is that they produce inconsistent results and reduce your options for other shots that you may need to play. Nothing beats good fundamentals. There's a reason that practically no one is using a stack and tilt or channel lock or whatever, in the PGA. Distance is great and a stock draw will certainly help with that but a 7 iron Carrying 185 and running out to 203 isn't exactly optimal for good players.
Anyway, great video. Love the channel!
Thanks Mike, and good fundamentals are always a great thing for all sports. With golf though, it makes me ask the question, what are the fundamentals, really? The basic grip, which can be modified a bit and still be in the same basic category. But beyond that, there are lots of players that play from a closed, square, and open stance, feet wide apart or close together, arms driven versus leg driven, etc. The fundamentals in golf really get to a grey area, especially when even PGA certified instructors can't agree.
@@GolfTestDummy
You nailed that one 👍
Hey Big Bayou👍🇺🇸 nice to see your still alive and doing well I hope.
Swings like ch lock and Marcus Edblad are what I like esp for my irons. Thanks Crash test. 👍
@@GolfTestDummy
Slam dunk analysis there Chad.. I have never seen one professional golfer .. with the exception of Moe Norman.. who could apply any variation of the so-called' Fundamentals of the golf swing with any consistent control of reliable ball fligh starting direction..not one.
Even the best players in World Golf throughout history have not been able to use the so-called' correct fundamentals' of a golf swing to eliminate the double cross to the intended ball flight direction requirement they have so importantly required at a specific stage of importance in the playing of a hole in a tournament.
I stood behind arguably the greatest player of all time.. Jack Nicklaus.. on the 17th hole at the Australian Golf club during an Australian open.. he was leading the tournament.. his std shot with the driver was an ever so slight straight push late leak fade.. which he hit from an open stance.
He was clearly aiming center fairway to position himself slightly right of the center fairway for his approach shot to the green .. the flag was extreme right side of the green.. he flat pulled his drive 30 yards left into a dense clump of high trees.. the difference between his 'intended' line and his resultant line landing spot was 50 yards..
That occurrence was from a player who was probably the most diligent applicator of the principal theory of 'Sound Fundamentals' of the Golf swing...those considered required fundamentals of golf swing mechanics just failed miserably when they were needed.
I believe the so-called Fundamentals of the golf swing are significantly flawed because they are so allied to the traditional forward of body center ball position at address/impact.. that positioning just leaves too much variable potential at impact for the clubface to be tracking either .. out to in.. or.. in to out.. at impact..
With an extreme trail foot ball positioning the Body Biomechanics reactionary requirements are virtually preordained to be only able to track the club head in to out at impact.
I can understand why no Top line Tour player of today plays the Stack and Tilt golf swing.. it is virtually designed to exacerbate the instance of the dragged or pulled shot because of its extreme forward body mass loading at address/impact.. which also makes it virtually impossible to hit a strongly flighted in to out attack path power draw ball flight..
The reason no player has been seen using a Channel Lock type swing process.. is simply because no one in the World teaching fraternity knows anything about it yet.
I'm not knocking the so-called 'Correct Fundamentals' of the modern golf swing.. hey .. I would love to be able to play the type of Golf Jack.. Rory and Tiger have played with those types of fundamentals applications.. I am just suggesting that if either of those players could actually' rely' on a specific 'starting' direction of a golf shot.. then the 'Fundamental' that allowed that to occur would have to be suggested as that of the 'Correct Fundamental' application. in my humble opinion that is.
cheers JH
JH I was thinking about something the other day, because once I started hitting shots with with all lead side, then all trail side, I was having questions pop in my head.
Why in the hell do we put the ball in a position that requires us to fold our trail elbow and then deliver that folded elbow past our center of mass, to the other side of our body, like the instructors are teaching today? It requires a pretty high degree of flexibility and athleticism, and I'm not saying it's not possible. There are many pros that have that intention nowadays, and they pull it off to varying degrees, but why?
With that model, you're literally trying to cross your limb from the trail side to the lead side. It's almost like trying to walk with your legs crossed. It's a recipe for creating an in to out, steep path from the word go. I feel like a center ball position, or even a slightly forward ball position was just an arbitrary thing that started a long time ago, and rather than allowing ourselves to change that variable, we have spent decades trying to remedy the side effects of that ball position. Like taking 17 pills for our ailments because each pill introduces a new problem, rather than just starting over from square 1 and changing the diet that created the original sin.
I spend way too much time on YT watching golf swing videos (guess I need a life LOL). IMO Mike Adams and Terry Rowles (Bioswing Dynamics) are the closest to figuring out how each of us should really swing. They take measurements and make recommendation based upon those measurements and how one's body actually move. Please give their approach a look and possibly try their protocols.
Thanks Roger! I'll check that out.
Too bad all 3 of these swings have caused me to groove such an extreme inside to out swing path that I cannot stop shanking...3iron through wedge all off the hosel. Ill randomly pure one and all the misses are hooks
Chad do you think the blocks are a timing think?
Could be. Could also be that my clubface at setup is off. Gotta keep grinding to get a finished product I think.
Have you seen the eureka method 😂
I have, haha. Seems a pattern is forming.
Hehe - my current swing could be described as a hybrid of Eureka & Edblad - IMO they go together quite well ...
This is the first time I ever heard a Marcus,, yet i have always had a Marcus kind of swinger , never knew his swing was on YT,, , I always draw,, some time to much,,
so I tried CL,, got to much Yoga position for me to feel a free swing,,
Tried Jim's now for a week,, having good results,, but as my own swing, I see too much draw even on Jim's swing.. maybe not still enough,, trail arms still kicks in on the last part of the swing..
I also can do av Moe swing, with the sharf across the middle of my R hand,, again straight hits , but i don't like the forward lean,,
i'M GOING BACK TO MY own swing as it gives me the same results as Jim's.. and Moe's but I have a bit more turn and push though..That's what is feels like. I can't fade for quits!! it fades if I shank..
and I used to be a big slicer at the beginning when I was a 34 HC,, Now I'm a 9 but want the holly Grail of a straight and a fade at will.. My real problem I think is the fact that I use and can only use a baseball grip, due to neve damage,.
which I'm sure , changes the dynamic's of the whole swing and I'm still trying to find the balance between the grip and swing..
Thanks for the comment, Sam, and I'm glad to hear that you have found some great improvement over the years. I switched about a year or so ago to a 10 finger grip because of wrist issues, and I can never go back. I know it supposedly costs you distance, but it saves me loads of pain.
By the way great 6 iron distance Iam jealous😂
It hasn't always been that way, and what absolutely kills me, is you'd think driver would be 250 plus easily, but I'm not there yet.
@@GolfTestDummy meanwhile, Marcus hitting 300+ yards sitting on a chair... :
czcams.com/video/1moaQKwhjx8/video.html
The vid is in Swedish, but he's trying to demonstrate that it's possible to get enough speed without most lower body participation.
Agreed, and I have seen several compelling videos from people that proves that hand speed is really the biggest factor. Awesome stuff.
Yup, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Find a swing that works for YOU, then stay with it - tweak as needed.
I bet you could do any swing method (for the most part) and get good results. Since you’re a very good Golfer, your subconscious will find a way to square the ball.
Well I don't know if I'm a "very good" golfer, but I'll definitely take the compliment and the positive vibes. I can get down on myself from time to time, so the comment is much appreciated.
From what i could tell from Jim's swing, he doesn't turn hardly at all, if any in his back swing ,where you are making a full turn. He more less seems to be just picking up his arms. I could be wrong, but that's what i see anyway.
Yeah, I'm pretty out of practice with the JV swing.
Good work there Chad ….the comparisons was fun to watch but ….there’s always a but ….with out putting in sometime with Channel Lock and maybe revisit JV system a little more …was it your best performance with them
Maybe 🤔
The one thing you forgot to mention with CL was the club face position
If it was lined up to your swing path the ball flight will be as it was in your demonstration a push…couldn’t see the club face alignment
JH always said to close the face to your target and then swing across your target line
Ball flight laws
JH is a outstanding person and a pleasure to talk to as you found out and his Channel Lock system is a great system for a consistent ball flight and taking out half the course …and no cool aid is ever served on his practice tee for anyone to drank …just honest words for all to hear and try
You showed us 3 splendid ways to move the ball from point A to point B with similar accuracy and with the same theme ….swing inside out
Winner winner chicken dinner for all 3
It’s up to everyone to find out what works for them but the inside out swing and playing the ball back somewhere in your setup will eliminate the slice …. I hope we all can agree with that
Your doing a great job my friend with your channel and I look forward to seeing the next videos
Hope your ok with the storm in the Carolina areas
Again…appreciate your time and effort and now I’m a big Marcus fan
You da man 👍⛳️
Thanks Steve! All safe and sound here. Just rain and wind gusts. No biggie.
Hi Steve, JH, Chad from Hurricane Ally in South West Florida. Things are starting to get better by the day. My home had zero damage even though we lost 5-6 palm trees which all missed the house. No power yet, but have a big generator which is helping a lot. Our course is still closed, but the aqua driving range is open.
As far as the open stance with CL is concerned, we all went through phases of trying various body/foot/shoulder alignment. Really you can have your feet open to the target line, but that makes it more difficult (for me) to have my shoulders closed closed at impact. I have settled on Steve's setup. Feet and shoulders closed to the target line. How much? Some. The club face should be down the line or slightly closed. The more closed, the more draw. You must concentrate on swinging to "right field" however. The 5 o'clock nose is the key for me. If I don't maintain that, I get a straight push. Without CL I would never hit a draw period.
I will never change from CL. Do I hit bad shoots? Hell yes. Who doesn't? At this stage of my golf life I am very thankful to have found CL. I am 75 years old and started playing 15 years ago.
My sincerest gratitude to JH, Steve Walters, and all the rest of the Lockers who have helped me along the way.
Cheers FJ
@@pigaman1
Good to hear your safe from a storm of that magnitude….here in Louisiana a home generator is like having a 2nd auto…must have
The feet position is a personal comfort and confidence feeling as you know….the shoulder line is the body part we all need to understand and setup correctly
Hope your power gets back on soon …how’ll did they do it in the horse and buggy days 🤣
i have tried lots of different swings, conclusion = they all work BUT if you put a shitty swing on any of them you get a undesirable result. Trick is too find a swing that has the least bad result.
Ah Chad...finally you sip from the CL kool-aid heh heh. I hope you do a "ctrl-alt-delete" after each method because if all of them show up at the same time on the first tee---you're either going to collapse in a heap or you're going to Kyle Birkshire it 500 yards ha ha
Haha, man it's just not easy switching through them like that.
IF YOU DO JVA I WOULD BRING YOUR RIGHT FOOT BACK A TOUCH MORE
Not pointless. Just different ways to skin a cat. One works for some, and so on.
Thanks Chris. I agree fully.
Hey Chad you are running out of "swings". Next move..................Ju Ju Swing. That has an extreme "paint brush" back swing. It seems to really send it with the Driver.
Haha, I guess if I really wanted to go down a rabbit hole, I could try all 742 variations of the "conventional" Golf swing.
Pointless
Love this! I still incorporate channel lock in my swing when needed!! I'm interested in the Power Slot swing method now! I've been tinkering with it just a tad! 🐊🏌🦅🇺🇲❤️
I've seen that one also. Man it just always feels like there's not enough hours in the day, haha.