The hardest, part of complex is understanding when things are done. For example, if you’re flying IFR, it is when to put the gear down. Most people say at the initial approach fix, but if you lose an engine, you’d want your gear up as long as possible. You can also reach the initial approach fix and still have to fly outbound for a course reversal. I will put the gear down after passing the initial approach fix, inbound, while I’m slowing down and getting ready to configure for the descent. Moving the prop to full forward is best done after you have reduced power Below 15 inches manifold pressure to prevent a prop over speed. I move the prop full forward when I have moved the throttle to idle that way when I come back with power, you don’t have the loud whining of a speeding prop.
This was just what I needed today. Low time pilot. (120 hours) Looking for a pre-buy inspector for a 78 M20J. All my time has been in simple and mostly light sports. So this was a great clip for me. Love the content. Thanks...
Leaving the prop full forward in the pattern makes sense as you are practicing take off and landings etc, and pulling the power back will reduce RPM anyway. On a cross country where you will probably be running at a constant RPM for quite some time pulling back the prop makes sense for managing fuel consumption and engine life. Thanks, enjoyed the video
This is definitely helpful. I am one of those folks that are scared to make that transition to something more complex. Just passed 150 hours and I'm still trying to get comfortable with straight and level and staying ahead of the game. Thanks for the video.
You can do it man...no doubt. That was great watching you get into that 180 hp 172! Keep up the good work and congrats on the growing channel, you'll be at 1000 subs before you know it!
@@MyTimeToFly thank you brother! I really do appreciate the encouragement. I pray that one day our paths will cross and we'll get to do some flying! Until then fly well, and God bless!
If your routine is good in a conventional airplane, you can do the same with a complicated one ! I flew the Cessna's , and owned a Stearman. I bought a Bonanza, and flew to New Jersey to pick it up. I only flew in a Bonanza a few times and never flew one. I had to learn how to fly it, because I was weathered in in N.J. for almost a week. I made many take-off and landings. The first one surprised me, because I greased it on! By the time I got back to Northeast ,Ohio, I was broken in as a Bonanza pilot.
Another great video. My only COMPLAINT - there aren't enough of them. Seriously, I enjoy watching your "average guy" explanations and approach to flying. As a fellow M20C driver, I am always looking to learn from others as well as just enjoy watching others talk about flying, especially the Mooney. Hope the winter isn't too rough up there in MI, we didn't get a chance to visit for Christmas this year. We will try and get up there in late spring I am guessing. Anyways, great video, keep them coming, and fly safe.
@Rodolfo Castro Same here 172 to M20J and as long as you're not too fast, the M20J is a lot more stable in crosswind situation and lands very softly compared to the 172. The hardest is to manage when to descend so you're not too fast nor too high when you get close to the destination airport
Very informative video on complex aircraft. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with us. Being a new pilot, I'm excited to start and achieve my complex endorsement. I'm not quite at 90 hours yet, but have flown 9 different aircraft. (Mostly C172) Only flown 1 complex, and it was also high performance. (Comanche) That was a real rush, considering I was only at around 45 hours. Just starting my journey and really enjoy learning from all of my new pilot friends!
Right on man, the Comanche was the first high performance ride I had. I wasn’t flying it, just got the right seat experience. Are all the 172s equipped similarly? That must be a bit of a challenge flying so many different airplanes.
@@MyTimeToFly The 172s are pretty different. The main one is a 69 172k. The other 2 were a 172XP and a later model with a decent panel. Also flew a Grumman Tiger and Traveler. I don't think it hindered my training, if anything, it taught me that I can fly pretty much anything if I fly it by the numbers.
That awesome man! I’ve said that a lot, give me the V speeds and I’ll figure the rest out. Obviously I wouldn’t actually be that careless (very often).
I watched your video because I am thinking about buying a Mooney. I have no complex airplane time. In fact, I have not flown in twenty years but no retired, I want to resume flying. I was also thinking about the increased cost of maintenance because of the gear and prop systems. and increased insurance cost too. Nice airplane though. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Roger, when I bought the Mooney I had ZERO complex time as well. The transition was pretty easy. Of course there is added opportunity for maintenance costs...but to me it's been well worth it.
For me the S in GUMPS stands for "switches." My plane has switches for the lights I need to turn on or off for landing, the electric fuel pump, the carb heat knob, and the hydraulics pump knob.
Informative video. I, too, leave the prop alone in the pattern. An example of 2/3 complex aircraft (flaps, and constant speed prop--but fixed gear): the Cessna 177B Cardinal. There are many others, of course. Same concerns for takeoff, cruise, and landing--minus retracting/extending landing gear.
I would at least reduce prop to climb power rpm even when staying in pattern( prolonged excess noise)The prop full forward on landing isn’t really just in event of go around. Many other scenarios factor in to that prop forward/ fine pitch condition. Especially in short field, IFR, etc… I personally use base or final as my latest point to be prop full forward. Just my way of doing it though.
I’m usually use 2700 for takeoff, 2500 for climb and 2300 for cruise unless the altitude listed in the POH shows 2400 as lowest setting. Once I’ve been cruising, I leave the prop at cruise until I decide to go around or after I’ve landed and retract the flaps, then push the prop forward. Below certain manifold, pressure the RPM is not even going to reach those levels. When I make a determination to go around, I don’t immediately jam, throttle forward. I am usually at MP below the green arc, then I make sure the mixture is rich, move the prop full forward, then I bring the power up on the go around. (Right to left in the quadrant). Positive rate, gear up, stabilize, and then retract the flaps one notch at a time.
Very informative video, I fly a Cherokee 140 and will be selling it next week to move up to a commander 112 complex aircraft. I have very little experience with this type of aircraft, one of the flight Instructors has a Mooney and we went up in it a few days ago it was a very good experience, hopefully I will be doing some training this week to get my endorsement.
I'm not a pilot, but I can imagine adjusting the prop in the pattern to reduce wear and reduce fuel burn. Flying with the prop full fine is a lot like keeping your car in first gear around the neighborhood. You won't blow your motor if you're turning 5,800rpm through a school zone, but you are going to put just a bit more wear on your bores, rings, cams, etc and you're going to burn more gas. You'll also be better able to punch it and swerve around a cat or whatever, and at least in the car you'll look like a bit of a spode. Without real-world flying experience and just based on first principles, I'd probably prefer to bring the prop down and then put it back to fine on final when go-around power needs to be available. I'm used to a manual-transmission mindset of adjusting RPM separately and in anticipation of need. That said, if props do have a not-insignificant tendency to stick, potentially leaving one underpowered, then I can definitely understand why you'd want to set it and not monkey with it back and forth. I suspect it has more to do with not wanting to get distracted and forget.
Lots of great thoughts, especially as a non pilot! One thing to consider, that the RPMs of the people do eventually reduce once you bring the power down enough, regardless of your prop setting. An example from the Mooney. At 13” of manifold pressure, I’m turning about 2200 rpm at a full fine setting.
@@MyTimeToFly That's good to know. I'd still imagine that a lower prop setting would be more efficient though, as engines are typically more thermally efficient at higher loads and lower RPMs. With a full fine prop, you may be putting more energy into beating the air than into making actual thrust. Kind of like a high-stall torque converter. But of course, all this is just theoretical, and might be worth like five bucks a year. It'd be interesting to look at a BSFC chart and see if an O-360 plays by the same kind of rules as a Chrysler 360. Some engines don't; if you were flying a 2-stroke or a Wankel then you really would want to keep it buzzing in the narrow Happy Place, load be damned.
I wish I could post a photo in here, I’d show you a chart that show efficiencies based on MP and RPM. Check out a “cruise and range data chart” of the Mooney sometime.
It’s my opinion you won’t go wrong with the Mooney! If you ever have any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out. I tell you anything I know, even if I’m wrong!
I’m a bit scared about complex. Going from a c172 which I trained to the warrior I purchased wasn’t that hard but I was still a bit cautious going alone. Now it feels simpler to fly than the Cessna 172. Great encouraging info though.
Very cool…good ole Hastings. Todd there does my maintenance. O shoot for 25 squared on climb out if I’m not climbing up to altitude. I’m a firm believer MP to the firewall if your climbing high. Honestly, there are many correct answers here, and LOTS of opinions!!!
Hey I am not too far away from Sparta and would like to get workin on my Pilot's license soon. Do you know anyone out there looking to add another co-owner to their plane?
Off the top of my head, I don’t. Here’s what would recommend. Call up Mark Schmitt at Sparta Aviation and get started training by renting. Once you are around the airport often, you will find what you’re looking for. 616-308-3967
Early on I have a video that introduces my Mooney, that might be a decent one to check out. What you're pointing out is a storm scope. I've never used it, and will likely remove it at some point.
It’s my advice that you should never think they are harder to land. Now that I’ve been flying the Mooney for a while, I believe it’s easier to land than a 172. Sure, you need to have your speed right, but that’s the same in every airplane I’ve ever flown. I’d say, go get it!
You stated you have 200 hours flying, what is your insurance cost and how many hours did you have when you bought it? Just put a deposit on a Mooney C and waiting for my mechanics thumbs up.
I had about 150 hours when I bought it. Full coverage on $40,000 hull value was a bit over $2,000 / year. We paid that for a year, then decided to move to liability only insurance which is only about $600 / year. I’ve got a video about it on the channel…check it out.
@@MyTimeToFly I actually went with the 180 Comanche (o-360 engine). A 250 is nice but the trips I do (Kingston, Ontario to Chatham, Ontario or Windsor, Ontario) the actual time isn't that much more and in exchange I get incredible fuel burns.
@@MyTimeToFly they are starting to come available. What happened (as far as I can tell) is that people bought them and fell in love. So they kept them. Cherokees and 172s are great but they aren't special, so people tend to sell them and move on. Comanches are...different, they are special. Now all those Comanche owners are at the end of their flying careers so they are starting to show up. You'll notice too that the ones that do still have the avionics to support that theory. Mine came with a complete Narco stack that is slowly being upgraded now.
The hardest, part of complex is understanding when things are done. For example, if you’re flying IFR, it is when to put the gear down. Most people say at the initial approach fix, but if you lose an engine, you’d want your gear up as long as possible. You can also reach the initial approach fix and still have to fly outbound for a course reversal. I will put the gear down after passing the initial approach fix, inbound, while I’m slowing down and getting ready to configure for the descent. Moving the prop to full forward is best done after you have reduced power Below 15 inches manifold pressure to prevent a prop over speed. I move the prop full forward when I have moved the throttle to idle that way when I come back with power, you don’t have the loud whining of a speeding prop.
This was just what I needed today. Low time pilot. (120 hours) Looking for a pre-buy inspector for a 78 M20J. All my time has been in simple and mostly light sports. So this was a great clip for me. Love the content. Thanks...
Thanks a bunch Jon! You'll do great in that "J", I'm sure of it!
@@MyTimeToFly Thank you! Have a great day!
You too!
Leaving the prop full forward in the pattern makes sense as you are practicing take off and landings etc, and pulling the power back will reduce RPM anyway. On a cross country where you will probably be running at a constant RPM for quite some time pulling back the prop makes sense for managing fuel consumption and engine life. Thanks, enjoyed the video
Thank you kindly!!!
This is definitely helpful. I am one of those folks that are scared to make that transition to something more complex. Just passed 150 hours and I'm still trying to get comfortable with straight and level and staying ahead of the game. Thanks for the video.
You can do it man...no doubt. That was great watching you get into that 180 hp 172! Keep up the good work and congrats on the growing channel, you'll be at 1000 subs before you know it!
@@MyTimeToFly thank you brother! I really do appreciate the encouragement. I pray that one day our paths will cross and we'll get to do some flying! Until then fly well, and God bless!
Right back at you…fly safe my friend!
Spot on brother and very timely! Thanks for the video and encouragement
Thanks for the information. I have a Warrior but will soon be flying my restored Mooney M20C. Your tips are appreciated! Keep up the great videos.
If your routine is good in a conventional airplane, you can do the same with a complicated one ! I flew the Cessna's , and owned a Stearman. I bought a Bonanza, and flew to New Jersey to pick it up. I only flew in a Bonanza a few times and never flew one. I had to learn how to fly it, because I was weathered in in N.J. for almost a week. I made many take-off and landings. The first one surprised me, because I greased it on! By the time I got back to Northeast ,Ohio, I was broken in as a Bonanza pilot.
Very cool! I love adventures like buying a new plane, and having to bring it home!
Proficiency is earned and learned, not given !@@MyTimeToFly
So true!
Another great video. My only COMPLAINT - there aren't enough of them. Seriously, I enjoy watching your "average guy" explanations and approach to flying. As a fellow M20C driver, I am always looking to learn from others as well as just enjoy watching others talk about flying, especially the Mooney. Hope the winter isn't too rough up there in MI, we didn't get a chance to visit for Christmas this year. We will try and get up there in late spring I am guessing. Anyways, great video, keep them coming, and fly safe.
Thanks Russell! I’m trying…but this darn job keeps me busy! Winter’s been good so far, hopefully it remains mild!
Thanks for the video. I transitioned from a 172 to a Mooney M20J a year ago and it was very easy for me. In fact, I find the Mooney easier to land.
I agree, the Mooney is now easier for me to land than the Cessna. Just seems to be more predictable.
@Rodolfo Castro Same here 172 to M20J and as long as you're not too fast, the M20J is a lot more stable in crosswind situation and lands very softly compared to the 172. The hardest is to manage when to descend so you're not too fast nor too high when you get close to the destination airport
I’ve got some good strategies for descending, I’ll share them in an upcoming video. I agree with everything you’ve said!
@@TheBarzook Cool. Mine came with speed brakes but I rarely use them. The landing gear is a great tool to reduce speed if managed properly. 👍🏽
Definitely a must to get the gear down. What’s your gear down speed?
Very informative video on complex aircraft. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with us. Being a new pilot, I'm excited to start and achieve my complex endorsement. I'm not quite at 90 hours yet, but have flown 9 different aircraft. (Mostly C172) Only flown 1 complex, and it was also high performance. (Comanche) That was a real rush, considering I was only at around 45 hours. Just starting my journey and really enjoy learning from all of my new pilot friends!
Right on man, the Comanche was the first high performance ride I had. I wasn’t flying it, just got the right seat experience. Are all the 172s equipped similarly? That must be a bit of a challenge flying so many different airplanes.
@@MyTimeToFly The 172s are pretty different. The main one is a 69 172k. The other 2 were a 172XP and a later model with a decent panel. Also flew a Grumman Tiger and Traveler. I don't think it hindered my training, if anything, it taught me that I can fly pretty much anything if I fly it by the numbers.
That awesome man! I’ve said that a lot, give me the V speeds and I’ll figure the rest out. Obviously I wouldn’t actually be that careless (very often).
I've never really thought about it. You guys can transition no problem.
For sure. Once you get the hang of it, it's easier anyway.
I recently started viewing your videos. Boy o' boy do I need to learn how to fly 😮💨 you guys are amazing 👏
Anybody can do it! Just takes some motivation…go get it!
I watched your video because I am thinking about buying a Mooney. I have no complex airplane time. In fact, I have not flown in twenty years but no retired, I want to resume flying. I was also thinking about the increased cost of maintenance because of the gear and prop systems. and increased insurance cost too. Nice airplane though. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Roger, when I bought the Mooney I had ZERO complex time as well. The transition was pretty easy. Of course there is added opportunity for maintenance costs...but to me it's been well worth it.
Great information and explanation!! I learned in a Cherokee 180 and 172. I will be buying a complex airplane soon.
Make it happen…you won’t regret it! Thanks for being a part of the community.
Such amazing information thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much! I appreciate you watching!
For me the S in GUMPS stands for "switches." My plane has switches for the lights I need to turn on or off for landing, the electric fuel pump, the carb heat knob, and the hydraulics pump knob.
Informative video. I, too, leave the prop alone in the pattern.
An example of 2/3 complex aircraft (flaps, and constant speed prop--but fixed gear): the Cessna 177B Cardinal. There are many others, of course. Same concerns for takeoff, cruise, and landing--minus retracting/extending landing gear.
Perhaps those are a great way to transition to a fully complex airplane.
@@MyTimeToFly Yes.
Thanks for the video. Good information from a pilot to a pilot.
Thank you kindly!
I would at least reduce prop to climb power rpm even when staying in pattern( prolonged excess noise)The prop full forward on landing isn’t really just in event of go around. Many other scenarios factor in to that prop forward/ fine pitch condition. Especially in short field, IFR, etc… I personally use base or final as my latest point to be prop full forward. Just my way of doing it though.
Roger that, thanks for sharing!
I’m usually use 2700 for takeoff, 2500 for climb and 2300 for cruise unless the altitude listed in the POH shows 2400 as lowest setting. Once I’ve been cruising, I leave the prop at cruise until I decide to go around or after I’ve landed and retract the flaps, then push the prop forward. Below certain manifold, pressure the RPM is not even going to reach those levels. When I make a determination to go around, I don’t immediately jam, throttle forward. I am usually at MP below the green arc, then I make sure the mixture is rich, move the prop full forward, then I bring the power up on the go around. (Right to left in the quadrant). Positive rate, gear up, stabilize, and then retract the flaps one notch at a time.
GUMPICSS: Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop, Instruments, Carb Heat, Switches, Seatbelts. Not all items apply with some aircraft.
Very informative video, I fly a Cherokee 140 and will be selling it next week to move up to a commander 112 complex aircraft. I have very little experience with this type of aircraft, one of the flight Instructors has a Mooney and we went up in it a few days ago it was a very good experience, hopefully I will be doing some training this week to get my endorsement.
Fabulous video 🙂🙂🙂🙂
Thanks 🤗
I'm not a pilot, but I can imagine adjusting the prop in the pattern to reduce wear and reduce fuel burn. Flying with the prop full fine is a lot like keeping your car in first gear around the neighborhood. You won't blow your motor if you're turning 5,800rpm through a school zone, but you are going to put just a bit more wear on your bores, rings, cams, etc and you're going to burn more gas. You'll also be better able to punch it and swerve around a cat or whatever, and at least in the car you'll look like a bit of a spode. Without real-world flying experience and just based on first principles, I'd probably prefer to bring the prop down and then put it back to fine on final when go-around power needs to be available. I'm used to a manual-transmission mindset of adjusting RPM separately and in anticipation of need. That said, if props do have a not-insignificant tendency to stick, potentially leaving one underpowered, then I can definitely understand why you'd want to set it and not monkey with it back and forth. I suspect it has more to do with not wanting to get distracted and forget.
Lots of great thoughts, especially as a non pilot! One thing to consider, that the RPMs of the people do eventually reduce once you bring the power down enough, regardless of your prop setting. An example from the Mooney. At 13” of manifold pressure, I’m turning about 2200 rpm at a full fine setting.
@@MyTimeToFly That's good to know. I'd still imagine that a lower prop setting would be more efficient though, as engines are typically more thermally efficient at higher loads and lower RPMs. With a full fine prop, you may be putting more energy into beating the air than into making actual thrust. Kind of like a high-stall torque converter. But of course, all this is just theoretical, and might be worth like five bucks a year. It'd be interesting to look at a BSFC chart and see if an O-360 plays by the same kind of rules as a Chrysler 360. Some engines don't; if you were flying a 2-stroke or a Wankel then you really would want to keep it buzzing in the narrow Happy Place, load be damned.
I wish I could post a photo in here, I’d show you a chart that show efficiencies based on MP and RPM. Check out a “cruise and range data chart” of the Mooney sometime.
Great video, Cory. Hoping to end up in a Mooney in the next year or so after I finish flight training.
It’s my opinion you won’t go wrong with the Mooney! If you ever have any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out. I tell you anything I know, even if I’m wrong!
I'm not a pilot but less noise pollution on the ground could be a reason to drop the rpm a little in the pattern ?
I’m a bit scared about complex. Going from a c172 which I trained to the warrior I purchased wasn’t that hard but I was still a bit cautious going alone. Now it feels simpler to fly than the Cessna 172. Great encouraging info though.
Nothing to be scared of! Have confidence and study ahead of time! You won’t regret it!
my instructor told me soon after takeoff pull power back to 2400 rpm and the same for the manifold pressure. I fly a M20F out of 9D9
Very cool…good ole Hastings. Todd there does my maintenance. O shoot for 25 squared on climb out if I’m not climbing up to altitude. I’m a firm believer MP to the firewall if your climbing high. Honestly, there are many correct answers here, and LOTS of opinions!!!
Hey I am not too far away from Sparta and would like to get workin on my Pilot's license soon. Do you know anyone out there looking to add another co-owner to their plane?
Off the top of my head, I don’t. Here’s what would recommend. Call up Mark Schmitt at Sparta Aviation and get started training by renting. Once you are around the airport often, you will find what you’re looking for.
616-308-3967
Do you have a video on your avionics and/or your panel? For example, what is the greenish square device in the upper right side of the panel?
Early on I have a video that introduces my Mooney, that might be a decent one to check out. What you're pointing out is a storm scope. I've never used it, and will likely remove it at some point.
Any advice on the landings, just closer speed management compared to a C172 and PA28. I have been looking at a few Johnson Bar Mooneys to purchase.
It’s my advice that you should never think they are harder to land. Now that I’ve been flying the Mooney for a while, I believe it’s easier to land than a 172. Sure, you need to have your speed right, but that’s the same in every airplane I’ve ever flown. I’d say, go get it!
You stated you have 200 hours flying, what is your insurance cost and how many hours did you have when you bought it? Just put a deposit on a Mooney C and waiting for my mechanics thumbs up.
I had about 150 hours when I bought it. Full coverage on $40,000 hull value was a bit over $2,000 / year. We paid that for a year, then decided to move to liability only insurance which is only about $600 / year. I’ve got a video about it on the channel…check it out.
Is it very difficult to fly by plane?
Not really. Landing is the hardest part, and making good decisions can be a challenge. But flying isn’t overly difficult in my opinion.
I did my training in a 150 and immediately after I transitioned into my Comanche. Wasn’t that hard really.
Very cool! What engine is in that Comanche? 250hp?
@@MyTimeToFly I actually went with the 180 Comanche (o-360 engine).
A 250 is nice but the trips I do (Kingston, Ontario to Chatham, Ontario or Windsor, Ontario) the actual time isn't that much more and in exchange I get incredible fuel burns.
That’s fantastic! I was very interested in a 180 Comanche when I first started looking. They are hard to come by.
@@MyTimeToFly they are starting to come available.
What happened (as far as I can tell) is that people bought them and fell in love. So they kept them. Cherokees and 172s are great but they aren't special, so people tend to sell them and move on. Comanches are...different, they are special.
Now all those Comanche owners are at the end of their flying careers so they are starting to show up. You'll notice too that the ones that do still have the avionics to support that theory. Mine came with a complete Narco stack that is slowly being upgraded now.
They are special, that’s for sure! Enjoy that bird, maybe we’ll cross paths sometime. I’d love to compare the Comanche to my Mooney.