Dune Philosophy: The Most Evil Emperor
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2022
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Obviously this video will have spoilers! My favorite thing about the Dune series is how it points out the dramatic shifts that take place in the collected human unconscious over millennia. Like the evolution of how "The Worm" is viewed. In the first book the worm represents an unstoppable force of nature. The worm is Arrakis, Arrakis is the worm. It is the living and physical embodiment of the desert itself. In Freman culture the worm is God because he keeps the desert for his people. Shai Hulud guards the entrance into their "secret realm". The worm is exalted in Fremen society, enormous, deadly, rageful yet protective, and graceful. All of this changes after book 4, “God Emperor of Dune.
Paul Atreides' son, Leto II, took the image of the worm and twisted it.
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I'm hyped
It’s going to be EPIC
I'm so glad its an audio book, something that drew me to quin was his voice and his storytelling prowess. His cadence and tone is just so... *chefs kiss*
Awesome good luck
Look forward to hearing it.
Also didn’t Leto rule tyrannically because he foresaw that something was going to wipe out all of mankind? His restrictive rule gave mankind the urge to spread out across the universe ensuring that at least some of mankind would survive. With the added benefit that as time went on they would become invisible to prescience.
And he deliberately becomes a tyrant, saying, "Pray that I am the last!"
It's like the book asks the question of "What would it take for humanity to be sick of messianic tyrants?", and Leto II is a character written in search of the answer to that.
Yes, the awful tyranny of Leto II was also the most benevolent rulership. By ruthless suppression and the kind of absolutism that the worst dictator of Old Earth could only dream of he managed to save humanity. He did what his father could not, he sacrificed his humanity, and more importantly his morals, to ensure human survival. Arguing over weather that makes him the ultimate villain or the ultimate hero misses the point.
The book doesnt explicitly say what Leto is preparing humanity for, but there are several hints. His religious dictatorship itself is perhaps a hint. But also, he breaks the Fremen. He makes them into the thinnest shadow of their former selves, while also preserving them. He insures that the Fremen will never again allow themselves to become that weak. And as he breaks the Fremen, he also breaks the Bene Geserit and the Guild. He shows them that reliance on the spice alone makes them weak. And for the rest of humanity, Leto's Peace is cultural and technological stagnation. All of this is to prepare humanity to be ready to fill the vaccuum of his restrictions.
@@patreekotime4578 Copy-pasted from my post:
In God of Emperor of Dune, Siona is tested in the desert.
She has a vision of the last humans being hunted down through prescience, killed by robots.
The Golden Path is Leto II's attempt to avoid this future.
He does this over a period of 3000 years, in at least two ways:
1) Human society is conditioned, bred to instinctually Scatter. Humans will no longer clusture around single points of authority, where they can be easily hunted down and killed.
2) He breeds genetic immunity to prescience through Siona's line.
By the time of Leto II's death, he has succeeded; human extinction has been averted.
He says: "Do not fear the Ixians. They can make the machines, but they can no longer make arafel. I know. I was there."
i.e. Ixian killing machines are unable to use prescience to destroy all humans.
@@patreekotime4578 it does. The golden path. The only path that ensures the human races survival into the future, without prescience.
The path Paul ran away from. Knowing what he would have to become to ensure the golden path.
Fremen: "The chosen one will turn Dune into an oasis planet!"
The Atreides Dynasty: *Does so*
Fremen: "No not like that."
The Fremen only thought about what they'd gain from a green Arrakis, they never thought about what they'd lose.
People always want what they don't have. Once they get that it looses it's value.
@@jirijelinek2326 I guess they thought the grass was greener on the otherside 🤣🤣
@@jirijelinek2326 Honestly, reminds me of Israel and them constantly wanting what other nations and kingdoms had. Every time they got that or God allowed it they instantly regretted it.
@@jirijelinek2326 that ….. is true
The interesting thing about the perception of Leto II as the Most Evil Emporer is that his greatest weakness, which the Tleilaxu had figured out and exploited, was his capacity to Love. And not just the universal brotherhood of mankind kind of love, but to fall hopelessly and totally in the most fairy tale kind of giddy "true love". That the 3000 year old terrible brutal dictator of the known universe could fall from the school-boys spell. And the reason Leto II is capable of falling in love is that despite the terrors he inflicts upon humanity, despite the inhuman monster he has become, deep down he still thinks of himself as worthy of love.
For a guy who was married, FH loved pointing out the dangers of romance. If you think about it though, the idea of having to do terrible evil things for the greater good may be a bad guy thing, but the idea that making hard choices and having to do things others would judge you for, and that it would make you unworthy of love...can be a message that sends its own dangers.
@@Tuberiascaesar but Leto is also the most humanized character in the Dune series. Herbert (and Leto in the framing story of his Diary) go to great lengths to make sure the audience feel what he feels and ask themselves if they would make the same choices with the same information. Herbert could easily have painted Leto into a complete monster, but instead the body horror of his transformation feels more terrible because we understand the ultimate sacrifices that Leto has made. We have sympathy in his "death" even though he will never really die at least the rendering of his consciousness was quick and not another thousand years of slowly losing control and becoming total worm. Did the Tlielax know it was a mercy killing? Or did they genuinely believe they had outmaneuvered the God Emporer? I love the layers of this work!
@@patreekotime4578 yes but you seemed to imply that if one is in a bad spot and having to make hard moral choices that one is not worthy of love or humanity. I probably misunderstood, but while I doubt that is what you or Frank herbert meant, the idea that the only way to save the world is to sell one's soul for an often thankless human race that would judge you for it, seems a little bleak lol
@@Tuberiascaesar No. What I mean is that what Leto PROJECTS is that he is incapable of love. He is The Worm! Terrible, fearsome, awful! It is also a sign of good writing that we see this most human desire. Many writers paint their badguys as incapable of love... It is a lazy shorthand for the dehumanization of a character.
@@patreekotime4578 He projects that because this is what people expect of an ultimate god. they want to believe a god will lookk after them but is ultimately above sentiment.
This channel is entirely responsible for me getting more into the Dune series. Thanks so much for putting time into these videos.
Same! I tried reading the first book years ago. I couldn't follow it very well and got discouraged and gave up. Fast forward years until I discovered this channel. I wanted to watch all his Dune content but I didn't want to be spoiled. I recently read it and loved it! The only down side is that until fairly recently, I didn't realize it was a series. So now I still can't watch a lot of his vids because I'm not sure if he's talking about only Book 1, or the series as a whole. It's torture!
Quinn's understanding of the subject matter and ability to guide us through it while making judgements and supporting those judgements as he guides us is unique.
Quinn has other videos on other science fiction subject matter which are just as enlightening and exciting because of his thorough examinations of those books and his unique , interesting narration.
I would never read any of these books but to hear him describe them in exacting and interesting detail , I just might.
I am just glad the CZcams Algorithm brought me here.
Carry on, Mr.Quinn.
same! his passion and excitement for Dune made it hard not to read! THanks again Quinn!
Same! I read part of one book when I was a teenager 30 years ago and Quinn got me reading the whole saga!
Me too! I tried to read the books a number of times but always ended up dropping it. But Quinn not only makes it sensationally interesting, but understandable.
"Heroes are myths. There are no heroes in Dune, at least not in the indefinite sense. The Dune series understands that being a hero is not a trait that one possesses, but a fleeting, transitory experience that one embodies for a period of time... Buying into your own myth leaves you unable to evaluate your shortcomings and acknowledge your wrongs."
God Emperor of Dune is pivotal to the delivered philosophy of the whole series, and a video about it is a treat in itself.
But I love how deeply Quinn gets the message of Dune, and how well he reads Frank Herbert's ideas and relays them. This healthy iconoclasm towards messiahs is what keeps Dune relevant and insightful, more so than most fiction. Goodness knows, we need that.
In other words: Heroes are fleeting…but villains are forever.😈
@Sabizos he’s not. He and his mother are using the Fremen, and he knows (once he takes the Water and becomes the Kwisatz Haderach) exactly what his fanatical Fremen will do after he is Emperor…and he does it all anyway. Maybe he had limited choices, but his motives were not heroic.
@Sabizos Paul not being a hero isn't even subtext. The whole bit with Lytte Kines dying in the desert spells it out.
Leto II knows his shortcomings, knows humanities shortcomings, he's the godhead born and bred. He chooses to give in to love, his humanity had been preserved, whether by fate or choice, who knows, but Leto II knew himself, knew his enemy, well.
A pleasant surprise but honestly I cannot believe I never once thought that one day you would do audiobooks! Especially since it’s your voice that really carries the videos that you create so well!
He's actually been working with tadhya for a while
@@justcypher8808 Oh I know he’s been working on that graphic novels but I never anticipated that he would do an audiobooks that’s what I meant by.
@@muthias4582 I'm pretty sure when he announced tadhya it came out with the audio version I could be wrong tho
I started reading Frank Herbert's Dune books when I was 17. At that time I was very rebellious. I was drawn to the themes of tearing down the establishment and creating a different society in the Dune saga. Now I'm in my early 40's. I've got a good job and a family. When I read Frank's novels now I focus on how power corrupts. I wonder if I'll focus on another layer of the onion when I reread the original Dune books in another 20 years?
Wow, now that's a good story I'm convinced now to start reading that's awesome
Yes, you will if you keep looking.
Find the context which refers to humanity and how it shapes its own evolution, and the pitfalls that leads to.
The problem with justify the tyranny of Leto II with him being a psychic god is it kinda suggests that brutal tyranny under charismatic leaders is...good.
Like he has all the knowledge of the universe and could come the closest to true objective ethics and chooses tyranny. And that his actions get excused as for humanities good basd on his knowledge suggests tyranny and subjugation are themselves good.
"I know better than you and im hurting you for your own good" is classic cult leader type stuff.
my dad, a protestant minister, who started reading the books in the 70's, and is a big fan of Star Wars, and I have been talking about the books since I read them in middle school in the 90's. we often make parallels between Anakin and Leto II. However, not why I commented. When he has questions about Dune lore I link him your videos, if I don't have time to postulate myself, but we always follow up.
Wanted to thank you for the Dune content, and showing me other large scale stories to explore through your other content.
Thanks Quinn!!
also love the robe
You can tell that Dune is insightful when it can appeal to Atheists, Muslims, Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses and have something meaningful to teach each of them.
Long live Quinn’s ideas
Wonderful discussion here. I agree with your Dante reference as well. Frank and Brian were correct in that one can read Dune multiple times, ( particularly book one, but the whole series to be sure) and focus upon a different thread each time. The wealth of psychology and philosophy are especially deep and varied throughout.
Great video as always Quinn.
I just want to say that Shai Hulud although spelled like gibberish in Arabic "which I'll count it as creative liberty" but since it references Arabic words, it sounds closest to "Shah Kholoud" which translates to "King of Immortality" which imo makes the name a little bit more interesting with a hint of foreshadowing.
Shah is Farsi, a pure Arabic. interpretation imo would be more Shai Khulud = endless thing
In the fictitious language or Dune it means Old Father Eternity
I think a more accurate translation would be "The Eternal Thing", although as Frank Herbert wasn't an arabic speaker he made a mistake cuz the literal translation of "shai (k)hulud (شيء خلود)" is "thing eternity" which is grammatically incorrect in both arabic and english.@@jadelkhaleqghalayini5552
@@mohamedsirajeddinemansour Giving that Dune plays ten thousands years in the future, the wrong spelling actually makes sense.
I'm surprised Quinn didn't do an audiobook sooner. His narrations in his videos are so good.
i dont know if you are the artist... but the amount of work put in with the art and even including a score with an audio version... that is crazy.
i’m buying the leather back soon, i wish they released the whole series again. they’re all gorgeous.
Dude, third vid watched. I'm really loving how you let the books be the focus of the vids. I don't think I've ever seen a dune cover look so beautiful.
There are some interesting parallels between the rule of Leto 2nd and the rule of Japan's Tokugawa shogunate, which we also know as the Edo period. During this period, extremely specific, complex, and strictly enforced rules of social structure were established and, at times, brutally enforced. The irony here is that the rules were to enforce peace in the wake of centuries of civil war, and it lasted for a little over 260 years. There is still some debate over whether Tokugawa's system was evil or not (to what extent, I do not know).
Thanks Quinn, glad to see more Dune content.
Thanks Quinn!! You're killing it!
I really appreciate your insights and I love to listen to you talk about Dune.
i've really never heard anyone talk about dune so deeply or insightfully. thanks for loving one of my favorite books.
Man, your videos just keep getting better and better.
Thanks for another great video. Your analyses are fantastic. Keep up the good work.
Thanks again for another great video!
Really looking forward to getting your graphic novel and listening to the audiobook.
Yes! Just what I needed. Super excited about the audio book and The Lie Behind the Star! Gonna get me on that list after I watch this. Thank you sir!
Another great video on Dune. All your videos on Dune are great. Must viewing coming from a man who has read Dune 10ish times. I look forward to your new graphic novel when it is finished. Have a great week!
Awesome and insightful as always.
amazing video, really love your work!
Your graphic novel looks amazing! Very excited for it. Love your channel Quinn!
Quinn ! The narrating voice you have is one of a kind !
Always excited for Quinn's content, much love
“the state of being great can convince one that greatness is a static trait…” BARS 😂
Love your work brother
DUDE! So excited for your graphic novel im getting on that
Good video as usual. Keep up the good work!
Brilliant video!
Thank you man, i have been around your channel since about 2019. I see the great progress you have made. The first videos were hard to watch for me. A lot of reading and not much of analasis. I feel like you have turned around greatly in your favor making me rethink a re-read things i read about 20 years ago- thank you :)
Hi Quinn, congrats on your upcoming novel and your audiobook! I just wanted to say that Ive been following you for a little while even though I have never read a science fiction book in my life. You have helped me discover a whole new world of literature, even though Im not quite there yet ( I have started to read Dune but with some difficulty to dive in). I do enjoy watching sci fi movies though now, which was impossible for me some time ago! So now I have this whole reading list planned thanks to you and a whole now literary genre to explore. I would love it if you could explain in the future for people like me, what are the subgenres (cosmic horror, fantasy, hard scifi... I have even heard of New Weird ?? After watching Annihilation...) and how you came to cherish the science fiction genre as a whole.
I have said this in comments before but your library shelves are a life goal! Well done and thanks for sharing your passion with us
Excellent, on point and very insightful
You in depth and philosophical analysis is nurturing to my brain.
Thank you for the great video!
Flying out to Holland really soon. As much as I love reading tangible books, I think I’m going to have to go with the ebook format for the sake of saving some space and getting it in the mail on time. The audiobook with sound effects is very tempting as well. Keep up the great work brother; I’m a supporter. Bless up!
Really great video this time!!!!
Love your insights! You put Into words what I am unable to articulate. Thanks!
Long time fan and I'm super impressed at how you continue to keep it fresh and exciting on your channel. Feels like you're leveling up in production as well with the music backdrop and visuals. Where is alien will o wisp by the way??? Just saw you're releasing the Tadhya Audiobook so I'm going to stop over to your shop and pick that up too.
Keep up the amazing work Quinn!
this has to be my favorite video of yours so far.
That Tadhya Audiobook sounds sick!!!
The way you explain the story and philosophise about the themes of these books is so captivating. I don’t think if I tried to read Dune again, I would have anywhere near the understanding I have just from watching your videos.
Me too
Excellent video. Good luck with your current and future projects 👍🙂🐻
Thanks ~ I needed some Quinn !
Thank you for the analysis.
I got into Dune because of the recent film, like a lot of people i suspect, and am currently reading the first book, i dont watch too many of your Dune videos yet for fear of 'spoilers' direct or indirect. But they are a good and interesting appendix to an amazing story and i will watch all of them in due course. Thank you for your work.
Great new video, Quinn. Love your content. I’m reading Hyperion now because of your videos and recommendation. I’m loving it too! Keep up the great work.
I also read the Hyperion books due to stumbling across his video about the cruciform. Got me into sci fi again.
Thank you Quinn, that was great.💖
Well done, great work 👍👍
Thanks for all the great content. And thanks for introducing me to so many good stories. Children of Time in particular is amazing.
I have your novel Tadhya so just waiting for your next project. You’re one of the few CZcamsrs I’m happy to support. Not to mention your writing is actually pretty good
I love this channel so much, thanks for the great content and look forward to your new novel :)
Excellent analysis as always
I love you Quinn, I really do. You are, and I'm not exaggerating here, the only channel I'm subscribed too. I've seen every video of yours, and some multiple times. With that said, you really, *really* need to take a lint roller to that robe of yours. :D And before I forget, THANK YOU! Thank you for turning me onto the 3 body problem book series. It's one of my favorite books of all time. Only behind the Wheel of Time.
Excellent insight as always.
Love the channel it reignited my interest in dune thanks
I love your videos man, and I support u all way!! Hope best for u.
Good episode. As always. Ur dune videos have made me open to ur other book reccos.
An interesting thought process. Love this!
Dude your channel is the shit and you have a top tier book-reading voice(s). Most definitely gotta grab your books soon.
Love your work
Another great Dune video.
Looking forward to the new graphic novel.
Quinn, your entrepreneurial mind is amazing! How you can funnel your creativity to fund your passions. Very smart!
Dude.... Sick! I gotta get some of your book stuff!
I didn't know you made also graphic novels, great! Keep up this good work!
Love your videos Quinn, amazing how much there is to pick apart from Dune
I can't get enough of your channel, thank you for every single video and the work you put in. You'd be an absolute legend to share a spice coffee with and chat Sci-Fi
Quinn Forever and Ever and Ever x
Man! You knocked this one out of the park. 👍👍👍👍👍
Great Video.
i just purchased your audiobook…. well done my friend
Thanks Quinn!
I love this channel!
Well done!!!
Finally, you’re doing an audio book. You’re voice is so perfect for it.
GREAT VIDEO 👍👍again thank you, be proud man !!!!
The art looks awesome.
This is just a wonderful analysis of Dune. I think the first 3 books in this series are pretty good, but I think your analyses is, honestly, better. I love your channel!
The first quote you mention, about the returning of the worms/the desert, is about the whole Empire, not only about Rakkis, isn't it? An allegory spoken by Leto, as he is a ”god” always speaking in riddles around his subjects . Because we know that after his death came a time of ”famine”/social unrest all around his former realm.
From one artist to another, you have some serious skills goin on man. Cheers from Canada
Love those concepts! Gotta check your graphic novels out!
Another excellent discussion.
As always acurat and beatyful analysis
Haven’t seen your video’s on my feed in a while, YT algos are criminal.
Happy to see cool self publishing!
Keep sharing the passion for sci fi!!
Holy shit I just noticed you're at half a million congrats man!
Super proud of you Quinn.
Hey you have a really great reading voice Quinn!
Hopefully the lessons of Dune can resonate with more of us in the near future. Thank you for increasing the popularity of this underrated masterpiece of a story.
yea dude dune is a hidden gem that only a few people have ever heard of
Quinn definitely deserves a lot of respect and support for the channel and his new graphic novel
Damn. Congratulations on the books my dude. 👏👏👏👏
Serious props to you for creating and publishing your own content on top of all the deep analysis of others' work. Excited for your new afro-futurism/horror work!
great vid
Love your speaking voice. Very soothing to me.
excellent!