Rewriting The 2nd and 3rd Drafts Of A Screenplay by Wendy Kram
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2018
- In this Film Courage video interview, Wendy Kram (Founder of Wendy's LA4Hire) talks about rewriting the 2nd and 3rd drafts of a screenplay by Wendy Kram.
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#writing #screenwriting #screenwriting101 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Accept feedback that enhances YOUR story. Not feedback that changes it into another's story.
I actually just had an interesting experience with 'revising'. I decided to take some of my screenplays and turn them into 'traditional literature' (book form - something Wendy had mentioned to me once). After having made several revisions and corrections over time, the process of transcribing the stories into a different medium gave me a truly fresh perspective, and showed me where genuine improvements (rather than little nudges) could (and should) be made.
Before you make your 5th 'revision', make a 'transcription'. It will probably help you in ways you never anticipated... :)
@@ejvonrhein The story itself didn't really change, but the way I told it did - in ways that I think made it much more clear... :)
With the first draft being a principle more about "getting it written" than "getting it right"... I think the second and following should be in a word "refinement"...
Some of the refinement comes from just asking (based on the first draft)... "What do I want to say?" "What am I doing here?"... AND then leading into "HOW do I say it?"
It takes experimentation, fiddling with stuff and rewriting a scene several times before you find the "right" parts about it, and then flesh it out to be the right scene, done the right way... Even with a second or third or forth draft, it's the right scene, the right way, BUT... the language is only so clear... The structure or timing or terminology is only so much.
In dialogue, the biggest two parts are...
1. What is being said...
2. What is NOT being said...
AND the tricky part is how to say more about the characters and story by avoiding things than with what's actually uttered in the dialogue. Refinement clears the original clunky ways we normally communicate and creates the ambiguity of what is being meant in weird codes, innuendos, and assumptions, rather than explained in monotonous exposition...
We hear from critics all the time about "Show, don't tell"... meaning to avoid mindless (or worse... mind-numbing) exposition. AND we see it time and again, the show just displayed the integral conflict rise from character A showing horrible disdain for character B, and yet, there's that part in the coffee shop or a canteena, where Character C has to explain, "Well, you know, D... A really hates B."
It's a whole scene (lots of them, really) that could be stripped entirely from the film, show, budget, crew, script, and save even the audience more headache than it's worth...
Maybe there's a film where Character A is just head over heels for B... And the whole point of the first half or a little more, is that whenever A and B are together, B is the one trying his best to be nice and respectful and polite, and A is avoiding ever saying something nice, friendly, or pleasant, for fear of showing too much affection in THAT space... (oh... for the love of GOD, don't go having C and D discuss it in the damn canteena if you write this friggin' thing!)
So refinement is about "catching myself" and erasing stuff that tells, noting what I wanted to say or do with it, and going about more showing, demonstrably... or denying (if that's what seems to fit)...
On Critique... Constructive criticism does a couple things... Most obviously, it asks questions... A really good critique, Cites a spot in the work, page, part, line... quote, and then asks about the subject at the time... "Did you mean for this character to sound just a little more like an a**hole?" (for instance)
Secondly, a really good critique, will usually point out one or two of the smallest things that will have the greatest impact on improvement. I still do occasional critique on Newgrounds (for example) and in almost every single one, I have a section at the bottom, "Most improvement for least investment???" where I explain what would be the smallest amount of work to do on the thing, and show the greatest level of improvement if it was done and re-uploaded, or revisited later.
Opinionated "hatchet jobs" and "hit pieces" are not critique materials. It's an utter waste of time to tell someone "this character's flat, and the villain is just evil for evil's sake, so your work sucks utterly"... Because there's no citation nor questions for building a depth in character. Sure, the motivations seem obviously murky, but without some references and questions, where could there be a better presentation? How does one go about it? What nuance would've "done it" for you??? Maybe the critic doesn't like Psycho' slasher dramas, so it always "seems flat and uninteresting" to him or her... In which case, it's the wrong person for the critique.
These are things to think about, not just because we all want to grow and learn, instead of getting splattered mindlessly with the filth and schlock troweled out by the troll brigades. BUT so we can recognize our own biased shortcomings, and maybe do a better job in the "self-edit" portions of notes for the next drafts, too. ;o)
I've learned something in core vision, doing outlines, is that it gives you the definition in understanding yourself, confidently when you submit your 2nd draft knowing the structure is already have the foundation in hand. Depends how committed to brainstorm and then outline, you're ready to past vomit draft to go 2nd draft easily map than before to rewrite.
For me my drafts are to simply improve every area of my script from when i first started it. Even when i feel like it's complete i'm still tweaking it. Every scene you write should feel like it's better than the last scene because has human we're always evolving and so should your writing. I'm always telling myself i could do better and i feel it.
I love her answer on the first question about core vision.
Don Simpson talks about sticking to the vision and all elements staying on track with that vision.
I love your channel! I listen to it everyday! Please have more material on revision and rewriting! This was helpful.
Anthony Tome Try rewriting and fixing the biggest problems first. Don't be overly concernes with dialogue until the story is solid.
Thank you for watching, Anthony! Will definitely focus more on this. Thank you again :)
This was a great interview. I can really relate.
I've recently worked on the 2nd draft of one of my scripts, and the goal has always been to clean up any ideas that I just threw on the paper. This could mean scenes where character do certain things that lack logical reasoning, or even a change in time, location, and actions. If I originally had one character doing less or more in a scene than before, I will either scale back or tone up their actions to be in line with reality. Small, intricate things are what I focus on during 2nd drafts.
Sticking to your core vision is important.. Getting input from others can help point out where your core vision isn't getting through. But I have to say, after three drafts, if it's not 'good enough', stop. Walk away and do something else. Maybe come back to it later. In my experience, a fourth draft is not really any better than a third, it becomes overworked. Take a break and get some perspective. You can't stick to your core vision by churning out 'revisions'. You can't. So if it 'needs' that many drafts, your core vision was flawed - do something else. If you're staying true to the core vision, you can't keep changing it indefinitely. Just my opinion...
Madness by Design So I'm up 40 drafts, maybe. 🤔
Write Heroes, I see a lot of these videos saying 'You need to have 30-40 drafts, or it's not good enough', then give examples of movies that sold with the first or second draft. Do you need more than one? Probably. Do you 'need' 30-40? No. "More drafts" doesn't mean every draft is better. Like I said, if it's not good enough after 3, walk away for awhile, otherwise you just wind up overworking details, rather than actually fixing problems. That's been my experience, but everyone is different, and maybe yours does get better from 39-40...
Perhaps I should also clarify: When I say "draft" or "revision", I don't mean the odd change of a word here or there, and then re-saving the file as a "new draft". I mean substantive change.
But the point was 'staying true to your core vision'. You're supposed to be rewriting your narrative (the explanation OF the core vision), not the core vision itself. I would totally agree that getting out of your own head can be very important, though...
That is very interesting and concerning that some of the people who won best screenplay at the Oscar said it takes him 30 drops so does some of the phone makers on this channel who are interviewed by film courage also talks about that as well
I kept rewriting and rewriting till I changed the whole script right down to the characters and story. Does this happen to anyone else? BTW This was my first script and I'm happy with the results now, it's more succinct and feasible to make. However I don't know if I lack focus that made this happen.
I´m finding a little hard to be more flexible with my story, I´m too attached to things but this was very helpful because sometimes you just need to hear you own voice and the voice of your characters and don´t fall for all the suggestions that come your way, at the end every persons would tell the same story in a different way and you have to pick very carefully what you can use and what you can´t. My goal in a second or 3rd draft is to shake things a little bit, cut more dialog of, tell things in a cinematic way and start cutting weeds from my script.
I finished my 1st draft in September and only now have I gotten around to tweaking it. For one, I just had to get away from it for a while and secondly, it is a daunting task to go back through and revise everything.
The main thing I found was that it had way to much verbiage in the action and dialog. I've just reworked the first 10 pages and it already reads much better despite being more "basic". As always I'm fixing spelling errors along the way but I'll consider this a "revised 1st draft". The second draft is where the story and plot evaluation begins.
Thank you!
Guests on this channel were more encouraging in 2018 than they have been during this pandemic so far.
Really interesting observation. I’m usually watching by theme or topic I’ve searched so don’t notice the date. The pandemic has been hard on all of us so it makes sense you’re seeing it in writers as well. I’ve worked really hard on my craft during the pandemic - that’s what I have control over.
Many in the arts are seeing careers that were just blooming now crushed it’s a tough time. Money that people spend on classes and script consulting is also tighter.
Very very very very true 👌👌👌👌💯💯💯
Thanks!
Thank you Andrew! Here is another one on 2nd draft mistakes that is pretty good - czcams.com/video/D6tGmn73MgY/video.html Please let us know of any topics you'd like more knowledge on.
Complete newbie question. What changes does a person have to make in order for their initial script to be considered a second, third, fourth draft etc? Adding/deleting scenes? Fixing spelling/ grammar errors? Or something much more fundamental?
Usually, a first draft is a lot longer than the final script. A revision will be adding and felting things to make the sorry flow better/get rid of filler, etc. And definitely fix the grammar along the way
I've never gone beyond a third draft. The second draft is purely structural and as I'm going along, I will fix spelling errors and such. I plan my work with varying degrees of scrupulous structuring and organising. When I'm writing a first draft that is almost like a second draft because I've planned it pretty thoroughly before hand. I don't count the plan as a first draft but it's like it and so I feel that when I finish a first draft, aside from many spelling errors and such - its a solid piece of work. There have been scripts where I've reworked the story but its rare. My goal is always to get that first draft as good as I can. I will say that she mentions Blake Snyder's beat sheet from Save the Cat. My own personal advice is don't use that because it has too many points. Its hard but try and find a beat sheet that has minimal steps. I use one from Amnon Buchbinder which has eight. There's Michael Hauge who has something like 6-10 steps. I would also avoid John Truby's 22 step structure too. I know screenwriters who have used Blake Snyder's beat sheet and got completely lost in the process. It's a horrible book and a horrible conclusion.
This is the conflict between writing what interests you versus writing what you think people want to read. The former always trumps the latter.
I like brutal feedback. When I get a negative comment, I can't wait to crack on and correct, change and respond to that through the work. I also know when the feedback isn't relevant and is a comment on my style of writing, which I will still take on and ask: "How could the style be getting in the way of the story here?"
I wrote my first feature script and well it came up short i.e. 57 pages. So I asked a few people to read it and many said they liked it but gave very few suggestions positive nor negative. I covered what I wanted in the story in that short of a time but some (who have not read it) say to come up with a sub-plot and with no suggestions. I have rewritten the darn thing a few times but can't seem to add more without subtracting from the key story I wanted to write. So now cant figure out what to do next. ....
i would be happy to take a look at it for you?
Sounds like what you have to say isn't refined enough and you need to look more into the complications of the character's struggle. Once you find the complexities you have more scenes. Definitely check out some sort of cheat sheet if you haven't already.
Or... you may have a short story. 'Padding' a story out with extra elements can just dilute what you've got (which may be great as it is). Have you thought about entering it into a contest as a short story, or putting it up on Blacklist for an evaluation?
On the third draft of my second feature -- my last draft came up shorter than I liked. 78 pages. And I eventually figured it out: my main character was weak. She didn't *do* enough, didn't choose enough . It wasn't about her, it was about things that happened to her. I think that crippled my second act. So guess who spent a couple weeks re-outlining. Not quite done yet, but I am much happier with the story. Next draft will be working on some character tweaks and defining my aesthetic.
So maybe it's your MC?
@@madnessbydesign1415 What's a Blacklist?
I got that same note (change your hero to a woman) that was a hard no. I feel that was a change for change sake - and trying to be a flavour of the month. Don't take all the notes to your script.
Yeah, I had the same with my screenplay that I’m writing. It was an idea that worked with the sequel, it just fitted more but with one of my protagonists in one of my films he felt too forced as a woman, it just felt weird and the character felt lost, like the core essence
How do I get a review of my script directly from Wendy? She's a smart cookie...
I need someone that can help my script.
my goal is to finish...
She is speaking from the perspective of a producer and apparently she has a lot of experience working with writers for whom the rewrite process goes wrong. Her company gave the writer some feedback and they took it in a bad direction. They lost the thread.
From a writer's first hand perspective, I could use advice on going from the Vomit Draft to your true first draft, before you send anything out for others to read for feedback. Do people really send their vomit draft out for feedback? I always assumed the "first draft" you send out for feedback is actually your second or third draft that you have revised and cleaned up so you're not sending people a mess. Based on my own experience I'm assuming the initial stages of writing are: Vomit draft, revision, first draft. Then you solicit feedback. Then you write the second draft. What do you think?
I SO wish more people did videos about this topic. This video certainly doesn't tell us how to do it. 😒
🤤
Good feedback can sound like: this could be delivered better. Could this be explained more? This part makes x redundant consider removing it.
Back feedback: What if xyz happened instead and the protag shoots lasers from her eyes?! Why isn’t the world building exactly how I want it?
Love this channel, but the majority of these videos are more informational than educational.
Hey Rio, thanks for watching. What's the difference? How would you change it? We're open to hearing your thoughts. Thank you!
Film Courage I haven't seen one video yet on how to properly write a scene. It's much like a screenplay in regards to structure. That's one example. Then again this isn't a school...and "education" isn't free.
Sounds good. Education isn't free but CZcams is. Like the idea for a video topic. Appreciate the feedback!
Film Courage I appreciate the feedback. Have you ever been subjected to a professor lecturing for the entire time then dismissing class? How much can you really grasp..? That's all. It's a complex subject, so I don't expect teaching.
Hmmm....let us think about? Thank you, Rio.
Anyone that tells you what to do, what to write etc, is an idiot. Good reviewers would say what something looks like to them and it's your job to interpret what that means for your script.
It is a tricky one.