One of Lionels biggest problems of the 60's was that unlike other toys, older Lionel trains did not wear out. Grandparents handed them down to their kids and then down to their grandchildren.
They also didn’t capitalize on the automotive craze during the 60s. Their offerings for static display vehicles during this time were boring. A lot of kids and adults during this era just bought readily available Matchbox and Hot Wheels then used their imagination to make up for the difference in scale. That was a ton of potential business lost to a segment they could have easily entered with a product that was cheap and simple to make. A lot kids buying Hot Wheels for their old train sets were also big into Hot Wheels tracks. Lionel could have made some cool diecast toy cars and playsets if they beat Mattel to it and introduced something like Hot Wheels in the early 60s geared towards the hot rodding and emerging muscle car scene…but was more to scale with O Gauge. It would have appealed to both model railroaders who wanted some variety on their layout and kids who just wanted toy cars that were more exciting than the Lesney/Dinky/Corgi offerings.
I am a big fan of the MPC era. There has been growing interest in this era over the past 18-24 months and it has been interesting to see some of these pieces rising in collectibility. Especially the FARR engines and some of the “premium” F3 sets. Great video!
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR while I have never been able to use it since it is HO and the sets and equipment we have are primarily of O gauge Lionel we have an American freedom train preamble express streamlined diesel from around the bicentennial if there was any MPC item that I think would be the best. It would either be the Lionel scale model of the American freedom train 4449 daylight streamliner, or the MPC era remake of the blue comet.
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR I scored one in new old stock condition, complete with the optional diner car. The engine is basically a reissue postwar 2-8-4 Berkshire complete with Magnatraction. I rode the real thing when I was 10.
The DT&I came out in 1971. I own an example. Mine, I replaced the manual reverse lever with a postwar E-Unit, and added some weight inside. Pulls nicely now, and can go both directions like a yard switcher should. Got to love the MPC era. Mighty Sound of Steam and Mechanical Sound of Steam are both corny and campy, but that's part of the charm! Simple, but does the job and sure brings a smile to my face! Personally what I like about the MPC era is that the stuff can be had dirt cheap, and if you enjoy modifiying and upgrading your trains (As I do) then they are a lot of fun for not a lot of money. Recently I upgraded a couple MPC era bobber cabooses, put metal wheels underneath, ran a piece of thin music wire down the center of the car, to act as a centering spring for the couplers. Added red marker lamps to one end, and as both were missing original smokestacks, I added postwar 717 type metal stacks. Added clear plastic inside the windows, and am thinking of adding lighting inside as well. All told, it was several evenings of fun, and I maybe had 30 bucks in the project between the two. Cheap entertainment nowadays!
I had that engine when I was a kid, it came in the Yardmaster set. As I recall it had no problem pulling all of the Yardmaster cars and my dad's 1950 freight set all at once. But that was 40 years ago
MPC had some problems in the beginning. But they did get their act together and made some beautiful things. The Norfolk and Western J, the 783 Hudson to name a few. We wouldn't have Lionel today were it not for MPC.
As a child, my favorite MPC was the Illinois Central GP9, who can forget that bright orange and white paint scheme. For me, it was as attractive as was the Santa Fe red and silver F3.
Mark McCummins I remember as a teen in the ‘70s having scorn for Lionel MPC, dismissing it as the “cereal trains.” These days I praise General Mills for saving a company that clearly was on the rocks. Because of their efforts Lionel is with us today.
Born in 1953 my Dad who was very handy built a 3 tiered mountain Lionel layout with colored cement based mountains in our basement. Best was seeing it run at night when dark with with the lights from the layout on. It was started around 1957 and taken down when I started college in 1971, but it had already been rarely run with its cover over the top years prior. There was a Sanata Fe passenger set from 1960 as well as a freight. The top level was a workman bumper car that went back and forth. For my group of friends it was not rockets but instead racecar layouts that replaced their early rail days. Years later I sold all the rolling stock and accessories and it brought us a week and half family vacation for us to Florida one year. . Even years later I started up an EJ track collection of AMTRAK nad freight HO gauge in our basement. Very interesting hearing what followed my Lionel days. Lionel must have rubbed off on me in a different way as from 2001 through 3013 in 5 separate weekend to weekend trips I rode all the AMTRAK routes west of St. Louis and even did a VIA rail run in the West.
Growing up my first fascination with Lionel started as a kid watching 90s VHS tapes. Wasn't until I was probably 20 or 21 that I got my first Lionel set in 2013. I've just recently started adding to my tiny collection big time.
My first engine was from the MPC era. Introduced an older friend who is more into postwar to it and he was impressed with how well it ran for a little engine. Pulled his heavy postwar passenger consist quite well.
I grew up with this shit. I was born in 1976 and I still have my first set from when I was 6, albeit it sits in a box under my layout. I bring it out when my nephews come to visit in the winter. I let them play with it, I don’t run it on my $20,000+ legacy layout.
The MPC era is super underrated. There are a ton of gems from that period and it's nice to get versions of scarce Postwar models for a fraction of the collector price.
I personally love the MPC era. I’ve been a Lionel enthusiast for over 50 years, and I’ve collected a lot of postwar Lionel trains, but now I’ve moved over to the MPC era trains, and I’ve been collecting so many things starting with the very first Service Station Set 6-1250 from 1972 in brand new mint condition, and a few other MPC sets all in brand new condition including the FARR #3, the Great Northern #3100, the #8100 Norfolk and Western “J” and the 8 passenger cars, and the #5484 TCA 4-6-4 along with its passenger cars. There’s so much out there available, it only makes sense for me to collect them. Great video, and letting the audience know about the foam deterioration in the tender was a key point. Great job!
One of my first engines was from that era and still runs like a champ today. The realism may have suffered during the 70s, but it seems like some of those motors are timeless.
I’m a big MPC era fan. When I got into the hobby 15 years ago they were cheap and affordable and easy to fix. Since then I’ve got about 20+ MPC engines and with a little maintenance and care every one of them runs and pulls beautifully. Some even better than their postwar counterpart.
I grew up during the Lionel MPC era and really liked MPC alot. You are right about MPC not getting enough recognition. My first Lionel steam sounds engine had a rock tumbler in the tender. I still have much of my Lionel MPC era trains. You can still buy Lionel MPC era rolling stock really dirt cheap.
The debate between MPC lovers and MPC haters reminds me of the age-old battle among Lionel and American Flyer fans in the 1950s. Everybody likes what they like, based on their own experiences and preferences. I was a postwar boomer, so naturally I love trains from the 1950s. But I have recently come to respect and appreciate the MPC era, due in large part to videos like this. Once you dive in and explore the world of MPC, you will find there is far more to like about these trains than ever imagined.
A lot of the "cheapening" that is blamed on MPC actually started during the later postwar era. The switcher that you showed was based on the postwar 600 series switchers from the mid 50s. These had stamped metal bases and molded on details, unlike the very early switchers that had cast metal bases and better motors. It was Lionel Corporation that started putting plastic trucks on their freight cars and even put plastic trucks on their 6464 boxcars in the 60s. One thing that can be said about MPC was that they buried the dreaded plastic "scout" motor for good.
Great video and overview of the MPC. My first set was a starter set from the 70s. Is it cheap and plastic? Yes it sure is. But it still runs and took a beating over the years. I have a bunch of the higher end MPC steamers and they are among my favorites. Easy to maintain, practically trouble free, and they look great. Thanks for showing the MPC some love.
Probably the best set they made during this time was the N&W Powhatan Arrow. Even by todays standards it’s a beautiful set. I also love that Chicago and Alton you have
During these early MPC years, Lionel also still had competition with MarX as well. 1970's I had my first new train set and it was a low end MarX. Adding more track; that store only had Lionel track. Erector also suffered during that time as well, I think Gabriel bought them out.
What you say is very true. I remember as a kid going from trains to commercial track slot car racing. The MPC slot car called “dyno charger” (corvette) and “dyno can” (maco shark) were the hot set up (with tire & gear changes) at one time prior to rewinding Mabuchi, (angle sidewinders), small can motors. MPC was very affordable slot car stuff. At that time trains (be it MPC or Lionel) were not in my sights any longer. But things have made full circle. Nice presentation.
I didn't have Lionel, but my parents got me, a Marx layout, with a #8 configuration. The locomotive was a 2-4-2 steamer. That was back in 1968ish?? I ran that 'till I was 12, or so. I don't have the tracking, or any of the accessories, but I still have the engine, and cars.
I always thought it was interesting that MPC acquired Lionel. They were one of many big players during the commercial slot car racing boom of the late 50s-mid 60s that dethroned model railroading….then the slot car industry imploded overnight and they wound up purchasing Lionel years later. Funny enough if Lionel would have diversified and dipped their toes into the slot racing scene they’d have probably met an extremely disastrous end by the mid 60s and the brand likely wouldn’t be around at all these days. I believe they could have made a fortune though if they got into making 1:64/1:48 diecast toy cars in the early 60s that reflected hot rodding, sports cars, and the emerging muscle car scene. Mattel probably wouldn’t have even bothered. A lot of folks in the late 60s used Matchbox and Hotwheels on their O/HO layouts even though 1:64 wasn’t an accurate scale because they were more detailed and exciting looking than static models of the era that were to scale. I’ve picked up some nice old hot wheel and Matchbox collections off folks who used them on their old layouts. Lionel producing something exciting like a hot wheel in larger 1:48 scale that could have run on plastic track, or static displayed on O Gauge layouts would have been awesome. It would have kept kids interested in a mode of transportation that had been overshadowed by the automobile and capitalized on those who preferred toy cars, but wanted something more exciting than the Lesney/Corgi/Dinky offerings.
Your synopsis of MPC and the historical timeline and presentation of the MPC product line are enlightening. The MPCs are worthy, and my favorites are the Tootsie-Roll and Lifesavers single-dome tank cars. Thanks for the demonstration. I'm impressed seeing MPCs Premium Penssy 6200. In 1985, I was selective, dismissing the engines as bogus. And, not believing Lionel's touting: The Famous American R.R. a mere marketing hype to maintain a brand since the Post-war era. I'm shocked that the company returned to Magne-traction from traction tires. And it's an eye-opener seeing the wheel valve linkage because not all Turbines have that feature. And the tender with rear backup lights is an excellent addition. The Famous American R.R. set contained freight cars. And I prefer seeing your Turbine combination with the passenger cars because the Lionel Catalog shows the Turbine pulling the green-colored Lionel Lines Passenger cars. However, your selection using the Tuscan-colored passengers is an excellent choice for the Turbine. Where did you get the R.R. ties to supplement the track ties? I only noticed today, in contrast to all the lighted buildings, only The Gateman is unlit until the door swings open to signal the oncoming trains. So is The Gateman snoozing until it's time to go to work? LOL. An independent constant voltage-on Interior lighting using an H.O. light post may enrich the interior of The Gateman Shack at night, but it's fine as is.
Food for thought. The low end sets and the like from Lionel and some others have plastic wheels on the rolling stock. The good point about that is if you have Kusan or other 2 rail (Atlas) 0 gauge trains those cars will run on the 2 rail track without shorting out the power. The other good point is you can fully wash those cars and not have any rust problems, just be aware of the metal on the coupler if has a remote one. The bad is the cars are so light you will need to put them toward the end of a long train so that they don't roll over on the curves, especially the flat car.
I was never much of a fan of the MPC era stuff due to the quality, but it is cheap for those who want to get into Lionel Trains. Also, they work well for customizing equipment due to the price of most pieces.
The MPC era produced cheaper Lionel sets , locomotives and rolling stock. However, it was the MPC designers who gave us the needle bearing rollingstock allowing us to pull longer trains. They also gave us the scale diecast freight car trucks with real springs which put to shame the old postwar freight car trucks hands down. In time, the MPC developers reached a level of quality which matched the original postwar Lionel complete with magnatraction and steel gears. They brought back such classics as the N&W J, the 783 Hudson (which was a copy of the 1950 model Hudson), the Virginian FM (with the new Southern Pacific - which existed with the original Lionel as a prototype model only, never produced) and the GG1 with (eventually) the same quality of the original. Another thing is MPC gave us much more colorful, attractive models over the flat or rather boring postwar models (except for several of their diesels). MPC did a huge service in bringing Lionel back from bankruptcy and gave it new life and these MPC models reflect that with their vibrant paint schemes and eventual high quality re-issues. BTW, I drove my parents nuts with the "Mighty Sound of Steam"!! My parents would ask me to unplug the tender from the engine to shut it up. - Memories.
Gotta love the mighty sound of static and dying cow whistle :). Also the MPC rolling stock is a great value if you like traditional size. I have many, especially tank cars.
With today's ridiculous prices and PC Rolling Stock it's very affordable for beginners and holds up. Common older Lionel pieces are also nicely inexpensive.
I had a Lionel yard diesel engine set back in around 1984-86 it was all made in Mexico as well. I gave it away to a former girlfriend. I should check and see if she still has it.
Lionel was on life support during the MPC era. I grew up with them. They're cool. Funny how they put the mighty sound of steam in a turbine. They didn't chug, they screamed. Great video.
As bad as some of their stuff was during this period, they didn’t really have a choice. Either cut costs and stay afloat or go all out and go for broke
I do have several MPC pieces in my collection, and, for the most part, they run well. I do wish the diesel motors had been better back then. The steamers seem to run pretty well.
The MPC Era produced locomotives and sets which far exceeded the attractiveness of the post-war era with a few exceptions. The Southern Passenger set from 1977 and the Blue Comet set from 1978 are some of the most beautiful sets made. MPC also re-issued the FM and their markings are every bit as good as the originals. MPC even re-issued the 773 Hudson with the number 783. It was clear their goal was to climb back up to the level of quality of the post-war trains but with much more attractive paint schemes.
I really like my American flyer MPC rolling stock, great road names, vibrant colors and same quality trucks and couplers that are found on the pist war pieces. What's complete junk is the trucks and couplers that they make now. I had some just fall apart for no reason at all.
Timely video 4 me, thank you for building these, great and interesting channel you are building. Have a recently acquired 6-18003 Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 4-8-4 Locomotive that prolly needs to have the tender & preventative maintenance done sooner than later. DID dig out the old bubble gum like grease & put in a synthetic. Never thought to look in the tender :)
That static noise as it's called was a big deal to me back in 1973 when I got the Silverstar set which I still own and still runs still today love the MPC era. I now have a postwar collection too
That is the EARLIEST version of DCC sound and I have that EXACT dt&i 8111 and also my 8111 runs very well along side my C&o 4-4-2 Atlantic from the Seaboard freight set and also (edit) I got a cn gp7 8031
Good point about the foam if denigrated it will damage electronics. I’ve talk to dealers and train shows who were not aware of the problem so they cannot warn the customer
8111 debuts in 1972, the postwar ones had no horns and they were single motor also . The rearly PW ones had wieght nbut the latter 600 series were basically the same as 8111
For me owning a Yardmaster set since Christmas of 71. That DT&I switcher came with green lanterns in 71 and by 72 it came with red lanterns on the front. By 1980 this one wasnt being made. My DT&I switcher will pull up to 10 cars with no problems. I havent upgraded anything but the lights. I went LED lit up the rear light and the lanterns.
It's funny, the "mighty sound of steam" was literally just a throwback to Lionel's "chugger" on their better locomotives in the 1930s and they sound pretty much the same. Also funny, even Lionel couldn't put the tender the right way 'round in their own commercial? Really? Geez!!! Great video!
I have been involved with toy trains since 1968 if it were not for MPC Lionel would have gone out of business way back in the early seventies. MPC did for Lionel what AMF did for Harley Davidson ,kept them around for years.
I got a mystery engine from grandpa 25yrs ago.. an old alco he got from someone along with a lot of odds and ends. Thing has a chassis just like that switcher- and had ZERO weight on the wheels and could barely pull anything. Thing was such garbage honestly. I tried putting rocks inside to give it more weight but it barely helped.
Enjoyed your video, just a couple corrections on the years. The 8142 loco and the 8111 DT&I switcher both came out in 1971 and are shown in the 1971 catalog. In the early days of MPC and Fundimensions, the second digit in the locos catalog number matched the last digit of the year the loco was produced. The 6200 loco had a catalog number of 8404 - and as you said, came out in 1984. I like your elevated line - something I want to do on my layout.
but MPC Does Have Some Appeal If You Grew Up Then, At 62 I Can Remember When The Catalogs Came Out, And This Stuff Was New, Iam Amazed At The Product From That Era Is Still Boxed Up Like New.
I really don't know why some people bash the MPC era stuff. It's kind of like the way some people put down Marx. I have both and they all run perfectly. I got my MPC 8601 with a Rock Island Tender and caboose for $20. Then added an MPC flatcar and gondola for $8. The 8601 runs great and with the red pilot and drivers even looks great pulling a consist of red Marx tin litho passenger cars.
If it wasn't for MPC General Mills there wouldn't be Lionel Trains today. MPC were made in Michigan by us who knew how to build complex things.. Think about it?
Funny. History may be repeating itself with Lionel. In my train club there's only one young boy new member. His grandfather has gotten him interested in trains. Lionel will need another generation of young consumers/hobbyist to keep their company financially afloat. As for their mature present-day consumers/hobbyist. If the quality of their expensive products continues to decline. The future for Lionel may be financially difficult. Great video. I was already in my late teens, 20's and 30's, during the MPC era. I ignore all of that crap.
In my own opinion if there was a dark age for Lionel it was the 1960s because it was going under and the company’s attempts to diversify had failed. IIRC the products at the end of the post war era in the mid to late 60s were a far cry from what they had been before or what they are like now.
Those who look down their noses at the MPC era should stop and think. If General Mills didn't see value in the Lionel name enough to keep the company alive it wouldn't be here now. And I don't think any of us would really want that! MPC may have gotten off to a bumpy start but they more than made good on it.
People like to bad mouth the MPC era of Lionel the way the Harley guys bad mouth the AMF era of Harley-Davidson but if it was not for MPC we would not have Lionel trains and if it was not for AMF we would not have Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
It is overly simplistic to state that the MPC era was the dark ages for Lionel. To me the dark age ran from 1965 to 1980. Most late postwar stuff was real crap and later MPC saw the return of metal gears to the diesels and the 783/784/785 Hudsons were some of the best Lionel pieces ever produced. I have no interest in modern Lionel and it wouldn't bother me to see it go away.
MPC gets a bad wrap for cheapening, and they did make some doozies early on, but after around 1973 they started to improve upon cheapening tactics that happened in the postwar years. The cheapening you mention of your switcher were all changes that occured in the 50s (stamped frame, no handrails, ect.) Nylon gears are another thing people don't like, yet lionel experimented with them in the postwar years as well. By the time General mills sold lionel to Richard Kuhn they were producing trains with more details and features than lionel in the mid 50s.
The Dark Age? I'd argue that would be the present era unless you're well-heeled enough to swing the quadruple-digit pricetags on Lionel's present offerings. MPC was when Lionel was catching its breath from the sucker punch the space race did to it, and the early LTI days was when it got back on form.
I love the legacy stuff but there’s no reason to go broke for one of those. Me personally in terms of reliability the 2003-2010 era was god awful. Their circuit boards always failed
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR Seems to be the way they're going for the time being, sadly. Irony is that Lionel trains were toys long before they morphed into scale models/expensive collectibles, and I think they've forgotten their roots there.
Simple demographics. The Boomers grew out of toy trains. Then they stopped having kids for a decade, going to grad school, driving microbuses around New York looking for Woodstock, buying BMW's, etc. MPC / Lionel hung on by their fingernails. By the time the boomers started having kids, the world had changed and trains were no longer what they were in the late 1960s.
I do not like the MPC era, and nether does my grandfather. He has an engine from that era and it has plastic gears. Currently not the best from Lionel.
I'd have to say in my experience the plastic/nylon gears were not the problem, but the pivot points of those gears, and those pivot points not getting good oil. If your gears are flopping about it is not the gears that are bad but the support point in the center. If the gears get floppy and you still run them, then the gears will turn into mush. Paper shredders have the same problem, when you run them too long. I have saved a MPC steamer 4-4-2 by drilling out the center of the second gear pivot, putting a machine thread screw in it's place and also putting a piece of metal on the top of the motor gear shaft to stabilize that part. On a modern dual motor diesel I had to drill out the center shaft of the secondary gear on both wheel sets and put a machine threaded screw in there and they worked fine enough. Big problem with the motor in the wheel sets and other DC motor engines is any quick stop or start will ruin the gears due to the gear ratio of the DC motors and the fact they don't spin so well when powered off. The fly wheel on the motors resolved much of that problem. To my knowledge none of the worm gear driven ones did not have a plastic worm gear system.
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR The Mrs and I have several steam and diesel locomotives from the era and have had nothing but delight from them. Some of the rolling stock we have from the era has held up very well and looks like new.
If it was not for General Mills buying Lionel trains and starting the NPC era of Lionel trains we would not have Lionel trains today. If it was not for AMF buying Harley-Davidson we would not have Harley-Davidson today. Just like the purists who consider only nineteen sixty nine and under Harley's as real Harleys so we have the same crowds who considers that Lionel died in 1969 and that was it. MPC kept Lionel trains alive made in America over 20 years. MPC came out with a new locomotive showing they had faith in the toy train hobby enough to invest in making something new and not just reissuing the same old Lionel crap that they inherited. They should be given credit for coming out with new products and having faith in the industry. Isn't it funny how Lionel trains are so expensive built in a country where they pay $2 an hour? Oh but it's too expensive to build them in America bulshit Weaver made trains in America at Price lower than what Lionel charges for crap made in China
Meanwhile, in the HO world we excelled and beat O gauge for a many beneficial reasons, expense, compactness, and most of all compatibility. I once read what made HO more desirable at that time when there was Lionel and American Flyer was that you had to choose one or the other, with HO you could have a Mantua steam locomotive, haul Athearn cars on Atlas track using Kadee couplers.
One of Lionels biggest problems of the 60's was that unlike other toys, older Lionel trains did not wear out. Grandparents handed them down to their kids and then down to their grandchildren.
They also didn’t capitalize on the automotive craze during the 60s. Their offerings for static display vehicles during this time were boring. A lot of kids and adults during this era just bought readily available Matchbox and Hot Wheels then used their imagination to make up for the difference in scale. That was a ton of potential business lost to a segment they could have easily entered with a product that was cheap and simple to make. A lot kids buying Hot Wheels for their old train sets were also big into Hot Wheels tracks. Lionel could have made some cool diecast toy cars and playsets if they beat Mattel to it and introduced something like Hot Wheels in the early 60s geared towards the hot rodding and emerging muscle car scene…but was more to scale with O Gauge. It would have appealed to both model railroaders who wanted some variety on their layout and kids who just wanted toy cars that were more exciting than the Lesney/Dinky/Corgi offerings.
I don't think N. P.C. was a dark age I think it was more of a fun age. Some great trains come out of it.
I am a big fan of the MPC era. There has been growing interest in this era over the past 18-24 months and it has been interesting to see some of these pieces rising in collectibility. Especially the FARR engines and some of the “premium” F3 sets. Great video!
I always liked the FARR sets but one set I’m really chasing after is the 1980 Chessie Steam Special set.
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR while I have never been able to use it since it is HO and the sets and equipment we have are primarily of O gauge Lionel we have an American freedom train preamble express streamlined diesel from around the bicentennial if there was any MPC item that I think would be the best. It would either be the Lionel scale model of the American freedom train 4449 daylight streamliner, or the MPC era remake of the blue comet.
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR I scored one in new old stock condition, complete with the optional diner car. The engine is basically a reissue postwar 2-8-4 Berkshire complete with Magnatraction. I rode the real thing when I was 10.
NPC was a fun time in Lionel trains.
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR I have that set it's great I love it.
The DT&I came out in 1971. I own an example. Mine, I replaced the manual reverse lever with a postwar E-Unit, and added some weight inside. Pulls nicely now, and can go both directions like a yard switcher should. Got to love the MPC era. Mighty Sound of Steam and Mechanical Sound of Steam are both corny and campy, but that's part of the charm! Simple, but does the job and sure brings a smile to my face! Personally what I like about the MPC era is that the stuff can be had dirt cheap, and if you enjoy modifiying and upgrading your trains (As I do) then they are a lot of fun for not a lot of money. Recently I upgraded a couple MPC era bobber cabooses, put metal wheels underneath, ran a piece of thin music wire down the center of the car, to act as a centering spring for the couplers. Added red marker lamps to one end, and as both were missing original smokestacks, I added postwar 717 type metal stacks. Added clear plastic inside the windows, and am thinking of adding lighting inside as well. All told, it was several evenings of fun, and I maybe had 30 bucks in the project between the two. Cheap entertainment nowadays!
I had that engine when I was a kid, it came in the Yardmaster set. As I recall it had no problem pulling all of the Yardmaster cars and my dad's 1950 freight set all at once. But that was 40 years ago
MPC had some problems in the beginning. But they did get their act together and made some beautiful things. The Norfolk and Western J, the 783 Hudson to name a few. We wouldn't have Lionel today were it not for MPC.
I love my 783 and think it is one of the better values out there for a scale Lionel Hudson .
As a child, my favorite MPC was the Illinois Central GP9, who can forget that bright orange and white paint scheme. For me, it was as attractive as was the Santa Fe red and silver F3.
Mark McCummins
I remember as a teen in the ‘70s having scorn for Lionel MPC, dismissing it as the “cereal trains.” These days I praise General Mills for saving a company that clearly was on the rocks. Because of their efforts Lionel is with us today.
Born in 1953 my Dad who was very handy built a 3 tiered mountain Lionel layout with colored cement based mountains in our basement. Best was seeing it run at night when dark with with the lights from the layout on. It was started around 1957 and taken down when I started college in 1971, but it had already been rarely run with its cover over the top years prior. There was a Sanata Fe passenger set from 1960 as well as a freight. The top level was a workman bumper car that went back and forth. For my group of friends it was not rockets but instead racecar layouts that replaced their early rail days. Years later I sold all the rolling stock and accessories and it brought us a week and half family vacation for us to Florida one year. . Even years later I started up an EJ track collection of AMTRAK nad freight HO gauge in our basement. Very interesting hearing what followed my Lionel days. Lionel must have rubbed off on me in a different way as from 2001 through 3013 in 5 separate weekend to weekend trips I rode all the AMTRAK routes west of St. Louis and even did a VIA rail run in the West.
Growing up my first fascination with Lionel started as a kid watching 90s VHS tapes. Wasn't until I was probably 20 or 21 that I got my first Lionel set in 2013. I've just recently started adding to my tiny collection big time.
My first engine was from the MPC era. Introduced an older friend who is more into postwar to it and he was impressed with how well it ran for a little engine. Pulled his heavy postwar passenger consist quite well.
I grew up in the 60’s and I never liked rockets or any of that. I got my first Lionel at the age of 4 years and 57 years later I still love my trains!
I grew up with this shit. I was born in 1976 and I still have my first set from when I was 6, albeit it sits in a box under my layout. I bring it out when my nephews come to visit in the winter. I let them play with it, I don’t run it on my $20,000+ legacy layout.
The MPC era is super underrated. There are a ton of gems from that period and it's nice to get versions of scarce Postwar models for a fraction of the collector price.
Specifically the F3s and Hudson’s
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR Especially the Hudsons. I'm after mainly a 783, but would be happy with any of the other two.
I personally love the MPC era. I’ve been a Lionel enthusiast for over 50 years, and I’ve collected a lot of postwar Lionel trains, but now I’ve moved over to the MPC era trains, and I’ve been collecting so many things starting with the very first Service Station Set 6-1250 from 1972 in brand new mint condition, and a few other MPC sets all in brand new condition including the FARR #3, the Great Northern #3100, the #8100 Norfolk and Western “J” and the 8 passenger cars, and the #5484 TCA 4-6-4 along with its passenger cars. There’s so much out there available, it only makes sense for me to collect them. Great video, and letting the audience know about the foam deterioration in the tender was a key point. Great job!
One of my first engines was from that era and still runs like a champ today. The realism may have suffered during the 70s, but it seems like some of those motors are timeless.
I’m a big MPC era fan. When I got into the hobby 15 years ago they were cheap and affordable and easy to fix. Since then I’ve got about 20+ MPC engines and with a little maintenance and care every one of them runs and pulls beautifully. Some even better than their postwar counterpart.
That DT&I came out in the early 70’s. That was my first set my grandfather got me in O scale. I believe I got it in 73-74. I still have it.
I have that locomotive I've kept up the maintenance on it and it runs great
I grew up during the Lionel MPC era and really liked MPC alot. You are right about MPC not getting enough recognition. My first Lionel steam sounds engine had a rock tumbler in the tender. I still have much of my Lionel MPC era trains. You can still buy Lionel MPC era rolling stock really dirt cheap.
The debate between MPC lovers and MPC haters reminds me of the age-old battle among Lionel and American Flyer fans in the 1950s. Everybody likes what they like, based on their own experiences and preferences. I was a postwar boomer, so naturally I love trains from the 1950s. But I have recently come to respect and appreciate the MPC era, due in large part to videos like this. Once you dive in and explore the world of MPC, you will find there is far more to like about these trains than ever imagined.
A lot of the "cheapening" that is blamed on MPC actually started during the later postwar era. The switcher that you showed was based on the postwar 600 series switchers from the mid 50s. These had stamped metal bases and molded on details, unlike the very early switchers that had cast metal bases and better motors. It was Lionel Corporation that started putting plastic trucks on their freight cars and even put plastic trucks on their 6464 boxcars in the 60s. One thing that can be said about MPC was that they buried the dreaded plastic "scout" motor for good.
The MPC Era had some very nice Engines and sets that are gaining value
The MPC stuff is probably my favorite.
Great video and overview of the MPC. My first set was a starter set from the 70s. Is it cheap and plastic? Yes it sure is. But it still runs and took a beating over the years.
I have a bunch of the higher end MPC steamers and they are among my favorites. Easy to maintain, practically trouble free, and they look great. Thanks for showing the MPC some love.
Probably the best set they made during this time was the N&W Powhatan Arrow. Even by todays standards it’s a beautiful set. I also love that Chicago and Alton you have
During these early MPC years, Lionel also still had competition with MarX as well. 1970's I had my first new train set and it was a low end MarX. Adding more track; that store only had Lionel track. Erector also suffered during that time as well, I think Gabriel bought them out.
What you say is very true. I remember as a kid going from trains to commercial track slot car racing. The MPC slot car called “dyno charger” (corvette) and “dyno can” (maco shark) were the hot set up (with tire & gear changes) at one time prior to rewinding Mabuchi, (angle sidewinders), small can motors. MPC was very affordable slot car stuff. At that time trains (be it MPC or Lionel) were not in my sights any longer. But things have made full circle. Nice presentation.
I didn't have Lionel, but my parents got me, a Marx layout, with a #8 configuration. The locomotive was a 2-4-2 steamer. That was back in 1968ish?? I ran that 'till I was 12, or so. I don't have the tracking, or any of the accessories, but I still have the engine, and cars.
I always thought it was interesting that MPC acquired Lionel. They were one of many big players during the commercial slot car racing boom of the late 50s-mid 60s that dethroned model railroading….then the slot car industry imploded overnight and they wound up purchasing Lionel years later. Funny enough if Lionel would have diversified and dipped their toes into the slot racing scene they’d have probably met an extremely disastrous end by the mid 60s and the brand likely wouldn’t be around at all these days.
I believe they could have made a fortune though if they got into making 1:64/1:48 diecast toy cars in the early 60s that reflected hot rodding, sports cars, and the emerging muscle car scene. Mattel probably wouldn’t have even bothered. A lot of folks in the late 60s used Matchbox and Hotwheels on their O/HO layouts even though 1:64 wasn’t an accurate scale because they were more detailed and exciting looking than static models of the era that were to scale. I’ve picked up some nice old hot wheel and Matchbox collections off folks who used them on their old layouts. Lionel producing something exciting like a hot wheel in larger 1:48 scale that could have run on plastic track, or static displayed on O Gauge layouts would have been awesome. It would have kept kids interested in a mode of transportation that had been overshadowed by the automobile and capitalized on those who preferred toy cars, but wanted something more exciting than the Lesney/Corgi/Dinky offerings.
Your synopsis of MPC and the historical timeline and presentation of the MPC product line are enlightening.
The MPCs are worthy, and my favorites are the Tootsie-Roll and Lifesavers single-dome tank cars.
Thanks for the demonstration. I'm impressed seeing MPCs Premium Penssy 6200. In 1985, I was selective, dismissing the engines as bogus. And, not believing Lionel's touting: The Famous American R.R. a mere marketing hype to maintain a brand since the Post-war era. I'm shocked that the company returned to Magne-traction from traction tires. And it's an eye-opener seeing the wheel valve linkage because not all Turbines have that feature. And the tender with rear backup lights is an excellent addition.
The Famous American R.R. set contained freight cars. And I prefer seeing your Turbine combination with the passenger cars because the Lionel Catalog shows the Turbine pulling the green-colored Lionel Lines Passenger cars.
However, your selection using the Tuscan-colored passengers is an excellent choice for the Turbine.
Where did you get the R.R. ties to supplement the track ties?
I only noticed today, in contrast to all the lighted buildings, only The Gateman is unlit until the door swings open to signal the oncoming trains. So is The Gateman snoozing until it's time to go to work? LOL.
An independent constant voltage-on Interior lighting using an H.O. light post may enrich the interior of The Gateman Shack at night, but it's fine as is.
Food for thought. The low end sets and the like from Lionel and some others have plastic wheels on the rolling stock. The good point about that is if you have Kusan or other 2 rail (Atlas) 0 gauge trains those cars will run on the 2 rail track without shorting out the power. The other good point is you can fully wash those cars and not have any rust problems, just be aware of the metal on the coupler if has a remote one. The bad is the cars are so light you will need to put them toward the end of a long train so that they don't roll over on the curves, especially the flat car.
I was never much of a fan of the MPC era stuff due to the quality, but it is cheap for those who want to get into Lionel Trains. Also, they work well for customizing equipment due to the price of most pieces.
The MPC era produced cheaper Lionel sets , locomotives and rolling stock. However, it was the MPC designers who gave us the needle bearing rollingstock allowing us to pull longer trains. They also gave us the scale diecast freight car trucks with real springs which put to shame the old postwar freight car trucks hands down. In time, the MPC developers reached a level of quality which matched the original postwar Lionel complete with magnatraction and steel gears. They brought back such classics as the N&W J, the 783 Hudson (which was a copy of the 1950 model Hudson), the Virginian FM (with the new Southern Pacific - which existed with the original Lionel as a prototype model only, never produced) and the GG1 with (eventually) the same quality of the original. Another thing is MPC gave us much more colorful, attractive models over the flat or rather boring postwar models (except for several of their diesels). MPC did a huge service in bringing Lionel back from bankruptcy and gave it new life and these MPC models reflect that with their vibrant paint schemes and eventual high quality re-issues. BTW, I drove my parents nuts with the "Mighty Sound of Steam"!! My parents would ask me to unplug the tender from the engine to shut it up. - Memories.
Gotta love the mighty sound of static and dying cow whistle :). Also the MPC rolling stock is a great value if you like traditional size. I have many, especially tank cars.
With today's ridiculous prices and PC Rolling Stock it's very affordable for beginners and holds up. Common older Lionel pieces are also nicely inexpensive.
Nice video. The MPC era sometimes has pro and con feelings but is still love some of the engines and rolling stock made during that time.
You have a great layout.
Those who don't like MPC era are train snobs.some great colors
Very nice video. Thank you for building this one.
I had a Lionel yard diesel engine set back in around 1984-86 it was all made in Mexico as well. I gave it away to a former girlfriend. I should check and see if she still has it.
Lionel was on life support during the MPC era. I grew up with them. They're cool. Funny how they put the mighty sound of steam in a turbine. They didn't chug, they screamed. Great video.
As bad as some of their stuff was during this period, they didn’t really have a choice. Either cut costs and stay afloat or go all out and go for broke
The orange rail car looks huge compared to the rest of the train.
I do have several MPC pieces in my collection, and, for the most part, they run well. I do wish the diesel motors had been better back then. The steamers seem to run pretty well.
MPC was higher quality than what you get from Lionel now.
The MPC Era produced locomotives and sets which far exceeded the attractiveness of the post-war era with a few exceptions. The Southern Passenger set from 1977 and the Blue Comet set from 1978 are some of the most beautiful sets made. MPC also re-issued the FM and their markings are every bit as good as the originals. MPC even re-issued the 773 Hudson with the number 783. It was clear their goal was to climb back up to the level of quality of the post-war trains but with much more attractive paint schemes.
Things really seem to change in 1980
When I first saw the 1980 catalog, it just seemed like they step things up in a good way
Love MPC :) Getting hard to find mint in box items
Really enjoyed this
Just found your channel, and like the look of the layout. I plan on watching your other videos.
I really like my American flyer MPC rolling stock, great road names, vibrant colors and same quality trucks and couplers that are found on the pist war pieces. What's complete junk is the trucks and couplers that they make now. I had some just fall apart for no reason at all.
Congrats on 700 subscribers, i'm proud to be the 700th!
Timely video 4 me, thank you for building these, great and interesting channel you are building. Have a recently acquired 6-18003 Delaware, Lackawanna & Western 4-8-4 Locomotive that prolly needs to have the tender & preventative maintenance done sooner than later. DID dig out the old bubble gum like grease & put in a synthetic. Never thought to look in the tender :)
Great tip on the foam and great video overall !!
I'm a big fan of MPC or older Lionels. Great video!
According to Greenberg's Guide, that 6200 is very rare and expensive. Nice find.
Very nice video about the MPC era. I just found your channel and subscribed! Keep up the great work! 👍
That static noise as it's called was a big deal to me back in 1973 when I got the Silverstar set which I still own and still runs still today love the MPC era. I now have a postwar collection too
MPC Era is epic in my opinion
That is the EARLIEST version of DCC sound and I have that EXACT dt&i 8111 and also my 8111 runs very well along side my C&o 4-4-2 Atlantic from the Seaboard freight set and also (edit) I got a cn gp7 8031
Awesome video 🚂❤️😎👍
Good point about the foam if denigrated it will damage electronics. I’ve talk to dealers and train shows who were not aware of the problem so they cannot warn the customer
Most of my trains are MPC and up to 2005. There was plenty made and can be bought inexpensively.
at 2:38 in your Lionel Commercial. the Slope back tender is backwards in the train. Odd for a Lionel Commercial.
I’m wondering how that was even possible. The shell must have been mounted backwards
8111 debuts in 1972, the postwar ones had no horns and they were single motor also . The rearly PW ones had wieght nbut the latter 600 series were basically the same as 8111
Great channel.
For me owning a Yardmaster set since Christmas of 71. That DT&I switcher came with green lanterns in 71 and by 72 it came with red lanterns on the front. By 1980 this one wasnt being made. My DT&I switcher will pull up to 10 cars with no problems. I havent upgraded anything but the lights. I went LED lit up the rear light and the lanterns.
You are wrong about the Pennsylvania set. Even though the traditional line was made in Mexico, The Collectors sets where still made in Michigan.
The "mighty sound of static" sounds better than the phoney digital sounds of today.
It's funny, the "mighty sound of steam" was literally just a throwback to Lionel's "chugger" on their better locomotives in the 1930s and they sound pretty much the same. Also funny, even Lionel couldn't put the tender the right way 'round in their own commercial? Really? Geez!!! Great video!
Your #8111 switcher was introduced in 1971.
Mpc Era is awesome. The 8111 is cool. I have 4. The 8030 IC is visually neat.
I always thought the IC engines had a cool paint scheme
I have been involved with toy trains since 1968 if it were not for MPC Lionel would have gone out of business way back in the early seventies. MPC did for Lionel what AMF did for Harley Davidson ,kept them around for years.
The plunger is also used to push air to force smoke out of the stack.
I got a mystery engine from grandpa 25yrs ago.. an old alco he got from someone along with a lot of odds and ends. Thing has a chassis just like that switcher- and had ZERO weight on the wheels and could barely pull anything. Thing was such garbage honestly. I tried putting rocks inside to give it more weight but it barely helped.
Enjoyed your video, just a couple corrections on the years. The 8142 loco and the 8111 DT&I switcher both came out in 1971 and are shown in the 1971 catalog. In the early days of MPC and Fundimensions, the second digit in the locos catalog number matched the last digit of the year the loco was produced. The 6200 loco had a catalog number of 8404 - and as you said, came out in 1984. I like your elevated line - something I want to do on my layout.
Thanks for the info!
I believe the darkest days of lionel was the Roy M Cohn era, MPC may have saved Lionel.
Yea the Cold War era wasn’t the greatest either
but MPC Does Have Some Appeal If You Grew Up Then, At 62 I Can Remember When The Catalogs Came Out, And This Stuff Was New, Iam Amazed At The Product From That Era Is Still Boxed Up Like New.
I really don't know why some people bash the MPC era stuff. It's kind of like the way some people put down Marx. I have both and they all run perfectly. I got my MPC 8601 with a Rock Island Tender and caboose for $20. Then added an MPC flatcar and gondola for $8.
The 8601 runs great and with the red pilot and drivers even looks great pulling a consist of red Marx tin litho passenger cars.
If it wasn't for MPC General Mills there wouldn't be Lionel Trains today. MPC were made in Michigan by us who knew how to build complex things.. Think about it?
Funny. History may be repeating itself with Lionel.
In my train club there's only one young boy new member. His grandfather has gotten him interested in trains.
Lionel will need another generation of young consumers/hobbyist to keep their company financially afloat.
As for their mature present-day consumers/hobbyist.
If the quality of their expensive products continues to decline.
The future for Lionel may be financially difficult.
Great video. I was already in my late teens, 20's and 30's, during the MPC era.
I ignore all of that crap.
In my own opinion if there was a dark age for Lionel it was the 1960s because it was going under and the company’s attempts to diversify had failed. IIRC the products at the end of the post war era in the mid to late 60s were a far cry from what they had been before or what they are like now.
That Johnny Cash ad showed a train with the tender running backwards. How did that get through production?
Those who look down their noses at the MPC era should stop and think. If General Mills didn't see value in the Lionel name enough to keep the company alive it wouldn't be here now. And I don't think any of us would really want that!
MPC may have gotten off to a bumpy start but they more than made good on it.
People like to bad mouth the MPC era of Lionel the way the Harley guys bad mouth the AMF era of Harley-Davidson but if it was not for MPC we would not have Lionel trains and if it was not for AMF we would not have Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
It looks like th he 1849 Southern Locomotive has an operating knuckle. How did you add that?
Nice layout by the way.
My CN GP 7 is 51 years old.still going
Just aquired an atlas GP 7 for 10x the price of 8031.i wonder if it will last 50 years
I dont' know how to feel about a steam turbine locomotive puffing.
I have a question about the 6200 tender. Could I put a board of cardboard underneath the soundboard?
You can add anything as long as it’s non conductive
It is overly simplistic to state that the MPC era was the dark ages for Lionel. To me the dark age ran from 1965 to 1980. Most late postwar stuff was real crap and later MPC saw the return of metal gears to the diesels and the 783/784/785 Hudsons were some of the best Lionel pieces ever produced. I have no interest in modern Lionel and it wouldn't bother me to see it go away.
u can fix them unlike newer trains with “obsolete” repair parts
The Johnny Cash lionel train commercial was inspired.
I`m a prewar Marx enthusiast . Lionel has always been too pricey for me . I`m doing it on a shoe string .
I actually kinda like mpc lionel
MPC gets a bad wrap for cheapening, and they did make some doozies early on, but after around 1973 they started to improve upon cheapening tactics that happened in the postwar years. The cheapening you mention of your switcher were all changes that occured in the 50s (stamped frame, no handrails, ect.)
Nylon gears are another thing people don't like, yet lionel experimented with them in the postwar years as well.
By the time General mills sold lionel to Richard Kuhn they were producing trains with more details and features than lionel in the mid 50s.
I like trains and hotrods
The Dark Age? I'd argue that would be the present era unless you're well-heeled enough to swing the quadruple-digit pricetags on Lionel's present offerings.
MPC was when Lionel was catching its breath from the sucker punch the space race did to it, and the early LTI days was when it got back on form.
I love the legacy stuff but there’s no reason to go broke for one of those. Me personally in terms of reliability the 2003-2010 era was god awful. Their circuit boards always failed
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR
Seems to be the way they're going for the time being, sadly. Irony is that Lionel trains were toys long before they morphed into scale models/expensive collectibles, and I think they've forgotten their roots there.
My 8111 DT&I switcher must be built differently from yours. Because mine can pull the paint off of the walls.
I found the railsound great . i have lokomotor with sound of stean its not so Bad its better as no sound
Simple demographics. The Boomers grew out of toy trains. Then they stopped having kids for a decade, going to grad school, driving microbuses around New York looking for Woodstock, buying BMW's, etc. MPC / Lionel hung on by their fingernails. By the time the boomers started having kids, the world had changed and trains were no longer what they were in the late 1960s.
You didn't mention the couplers.
Oh yes. The couplers are also plastic and non functional
I'm post Lionel Post war.
I do not like the MPC era, and nether does my grandfather. He has an engine from that era and it has plastic gears. Currently not the best from Lionel.
I'd have to say in my experience the plastic/nylon gears were not the problem, but the pivot points of those gears, and those pivot points not getting good oil. If your gears are flopping about it is not the gears that are bad but the support point in the center. If the gears get floppy and you still run them, then the gears will turn into mush. Paper shredders have the same problem, when you run them too long. I have saved a MPC steamer 4-4-2 by drilling out the center of the second gear pivot, putting a machine thread screw in it's place and also putting a piece of metal on the top of the motor gear shaft to stabilize that part. On a modern dual motor diesel I had to drill out the center shaft of the secondary gear on both wheel sets and put a machine threaded screw in there and they worked fine enough. Big problem with the motor in the wheel sets and other DC motor engines is any quick stop or start will ruin the gears due to the gear ratio of the DC motors and the fact they don't spin so well when powered off. The fly wheel on the motors resolved much of that problem. To my knowledge none of the worm gear driven ones did not have a plastic worm gear system.
The era that Lionel wishes they could forget
Might not have been their finest hour but if it wasn’t for this era we may not have had the sounds and features we have today
@@DeerbrookSouthernRR The Mrs and I have several steam and diesel locomotives from the era and have had nothing but delight from them. Some of the rolling stock we have from the era has held up very well and looks like new.
If it was not for General Mills buying Lionel trains and starting the NPC era of Lionel trains we would not have Lionel trains today. If it was not for AMF buying Harley-Davidson we would not have Harley-Davidson today. Just like the purists who consider only nineteen sixty nine and under Harley's as real Harleys so we have the same crowds who considers that Lionel died in 1969 and that was it. MPC kept Lionel trains alive made in America over 20 years. MPC came out with a new locomotive showing they had faith in the toy train hobby enough to invest in making something new and not just reissuing the same old Lionel crap that they inherited. They should be given credit for coming out with new products and having faith in the industry. Isn't it funny how Lionel trains are so expensive built in a country where they pay $2 an hour? Oh but it's too expensive to build them in America bulshit Weaver made trains in America at Price lower than what Lionel charges for crap made in China
Meanwhile, in the HO world we excelled and beat O gauge for a many beneficial reasons, expense, compactness, and most of all compatibility.
I once read what made HO more desirable at that time when there was Lionel and American Flyer was that you had to choose one or the other, with HO you could have a Mantua steam locomotive, haul Athearn cars on Atlas track using Kadee couplers.
cant hear cash at all