The Electric Reincarnation of the Gyrodyne
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2024
- In this video we explore why electric propulsion is the ideal technology to bring back the Gyrodyne.
Contrary to popular belief, the idea of airlifting passengers from the city centres is decades old. The recent wave of urban air mobility has only renewed interest in the idea because of the advancements in electric aviation technologies.
Special thanks to Mustard for creating this original video on Rotodyne and bringing it back into consciousness
• This Plane Almost Rein... - Věda a technologie
Using the free rotation of the blades in flight as a regenerative generator is a really smart idea.
I love the presentation on this channel. Clear, informative but to the point, no stupid music, and no irritating presenters.
And no robots that can't tell row (noun - in a line) from row (verb - argue).
I'm glad to see Carter Aviation live on through Jaunt.
Excellent presentation!
I am continuously amazed why no manufacturer has taken up this concept to commercial level... why ..???
Thank you for a very well-informed briefing on modern Gyrodynes.
Fantastic teaching video on my most interested subject. Explanations , examples made this video a joy to watch and learn from. Please keep them coming.
You're very welcome!
Aha! This is very much what I was thinking of when I was watching another of your videos about EVTOL to cruise.
Fantastic video again. I'm so glad I found your channel. A perfect balance of engineering history, the underlying physics and possible future applications. Looking forward to your next.
Really enjoying this channel. Don´t see these stories anywhere else.
This is what CZcams is meant for.
I like the cutting-edge topics on this channel, including glimpses at these potential coming technologies of the future. The easy-to-understand background explanations are great for a mainstream audience, and not only niche enthusiasts. Thanks for this nice video -- please make more!
Great video from you, as usual. Thanks!
Thanks again!
Fantastic overview and update - really exciting developments! Thanks again!
Well done! Carter Copters have been developing the slow rotor technology for quite long time. It has all the potential to be a safe urban air transportation. It's nice to see this technology making it's way closer to being used in a mass aircraft.
It's crazy to optimize these short hop craft for cruise. Autorotation makes it's safe use viable.
…safer…
Maybe the added complexity of a rotor pushes the price up, but, the range and speed on this configuration is a game changer. Maybe the power consumption is low enough for PV panels to make an useful contribution?
You missed the crucial concepts of the Cartercopter rotor: It is tip weighted to store energy for take off and it stays stable despite reverse flow over the retreating blade.
Your channel is awesome! I love that you put all of these together. The Rotodyne and Carter-copter are some of my favorite aircraft designs. Would love to see the Rotodyne style come back at it's size & capacity. Jaunt is doing great things with Carter-copter technology as well. I really hope that these compound style aircraft can make it to market, particularly for individual consumers.
Excellent video man. Well done. You are covering the technical aspects very well. Keep it going.👍🏽
Ive had Rotodyne on my mind for some months. It occurs to me that the rotor could be powered up using electric powered folding props the like that are in use for glider propulsion.
In this way the noise of the tip jets is avoided, as well as the complexity of fuelling them, it simply requires slip rings to transmit electricity down the rotor to motors about 2/3 span out. When not required for vertical flight the props will self stow themselves to a furled position. The entire machine is quite safe as, if the thrust engines fail it has the reserve of the rotor either as a helicopter or an autogyro the safely descend, or it could fly on to an available sealed surface if there was one in proximity. The original had Napier Eland turboprop power producing 2.800 shaft HP, and tip jets providing 1.000 lb thrust or 4 Kn with a tip speed of 720 ft/s. The main rotor was a pitch controllable 4 blade design of quite low disk loading of 6.14 lbs a sq ft. Overall the machine had some 30% of its GW or 50% of the EW available for disposable load.
If you can make a working model of your idea, it would be a great demonstrator. I like the idea of folding props
Thanks for this, very informative and well presented. Always thought the Rotodyne was a good idea gone to waste.
great video, sharp, intelligent and to the point,. love the accent,... lol
This is insanely informative video, it is great indeed.
Glad it was helpful!
@@ElectricAviation are you from India
@@7.90billionfoolsonaplanet7 Nope
@@ElectricAviation then where are you from your accent sounds little Indian
Always excellent videos - fascinating history part too, ^oo^
Excellent as ever.
Thank you.
Thank you too!
Very enjoyable presentation! Nice balance. Flowed nicely.
Great video and information. As a long time fan of the Farey Rotordyne and rotorcraft in general, I was not aware of how versatile and promising this technology is.
love this idea and video ! been following gyros for decades. electric propulsiom combines seemingly well.
Solid video as always :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for your videos and they are very informative. Big fan of Rotodyne.
Thanks for watching!
Amazing video thanks for breaking that down so fully.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, thanks! A lot of interesting information and very pertinent, too!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent video. Very detailed.
Well explained, thanx!
Glad it was helpful!
Very well explained!! Love your channel
Thanks so much!
Excellent explanation of the engineering physics. Thanks.
I was just thinking about electric gyrocopters.
Very interesting concepts, and well presented.
here i am! ready to be educated!
Love how you really dig into the details and explain things so well, thanks
Glad you liked it!
Good type of aircraft & useful commercially. Hope this will be made to larger/bigger model that can carry passengers to anywhere.
I loved the video and the explanation of its tech thanks
Oh boy.... a gratuitous amount of my Rotodyne video is used here without permission.
That's disappointing, shame he didnt ask as I'm sure you would have gave permission, that sucks
My sincere apologies. I am very appreciative of your work and I understand the effort you put into 3D models and rendering. Although I should have asked before, but even if you dont permit me to use it, I will take the video down
At what point does it stop being fair use for education and become 'gratuitous'? Is the 'Video Courtesy: Mustard' not enough? Not criticising, just curious. Thanks.
@@goldreserve Taking content I created for a video about the Rotodyne and using it in your own Rotodyne video is not fair use in any sense. The fair use exemption only applies when the use is transformative. For example if you were to made a video about the 'use of CGI in CZcams videos' and you sampled my renders - that's fair use. In this case, Electric Aviation is simple using my work/efforts for a video he will profit off of. I also paid hundreds of dollars to license footage used in my rotodyne video... which are reused in this video. So he's not only violating my copyright, but the copyright of the footage holders.
@@ElectricAviation You can keep the video up but please be more carful with copyright. Most wouldn't hesitate to give you a copyright strike and you could loose your channel. Best of luck and I hope to see your channel grow :)
Super Vid , Electric Gyro had enormous potential 👍👍👍
I am verly glad I found your channel, I am an industrial designer and I am planig on designig an eVTOL, keep the great work up! Thx a lot!
Welcome aboard!
Very cool
Thank you so much,
I have a goal to make the first electric commercial aircraft. And I don't see a lot of videos out there.
You one of the few, please keep uploading.
THaNk yOu!!
(I subscribed and liked)
Me too. I have a better fan design for VTOL than what is available
@@786ALHAQ Nice, is it bladeless? There is something called a fluidic propulsion system.
Also, are you good at drone engineering?
I'm thinking to start this business first since it's affordable.
Great presentation. Thank you. Do I remember correctly, maybe back in the 30s, there were some gyrocopter crashes in the early days that drove public sentiment against them from fears? If so, I am glad that gyrodyne had such an excellent safety record. Thanks again for an excellent discussion on this subject and its history.
Very cool.
I was just about to ask about regen and you added it in the last 10 seconds.
Excellent video. I really learned a lot from this. You mentioned the Jaunt Rosa needing a dedicated pilot. If technology (which already exists can be used to get rid of that increasingly wasted expensive weight) imagine what it could do to the economics of the product in a relatively simple way. Ie: Once FSD for cars has been attained it could rapidly be scaled up and deployed for aviation with massive cost savings.
Their initial plan is to start with a pilot but they will bring the auto pilot system by the year 2030
rotodyne still looks good 2021 ! way ahead of its time .
By the way Fantastic vidio thank you very much.
Thank you so much
I've started a company called AetherX, this is my dream for it, updating the Rotodyne!!!
The rotodyne design with electric tip props instead of the ramjets seems intriguingly viable. Would resolve the noise problem, and the fuselage vibration issues could surely be revisited and resolved.
At 2:33, that's a chinook helicopter rather than a gyrodyne. I saw plenty of those when I was in the 101st Airborne Division. Thanks for the video overall. Very interesting and informative.
That's no Chinook. It's a civil version of the CH-46 Sea Knight.
Wow cool
I always wanted a Gyrocopter to commute to work. If it becomes electric that would be perfect. I could imagine it needing less energy for take off than a multicopter... There comes the explanation. Thanks.
Good video
That was a HECK of a video. For us engineers, the information you provide explains a lot. Subscribed! Those 46 dislikes must be Boeing employees.
Hahaha....Good one :)
One point on the comparison to the Lilium, the effect of the location of the propulsors across the rear of the wing and canard can not be ignored. The inlet of the propulsors uses the wing and canard surface as the lower portion of the inlet when in horizontal orientation with the upper part of the inlet being an extended portion of the propulsor nacelle. The hinge line of the propulsors are located inside the inlets. The result is that when the propulsor arrays are deflected to vertical orientation there is no obstruction to airflow over the top of the wing and into the propulsor. However the upper portion of the inlet now projects above the surface of the wing and one helps to turn the air being entrained across the lifting surfaces and also inhibits airflow coming into the propulsor from behind the wing.
The result is that the suction of the propulsors will acceleration of the air across the lifting surfaces which reduces the static pressure causing lift to be generated by the wing and canard even though the forward speed is zero. Further when it is in ground effect, the exhaust from the propulsors will be cause a high pressure bubble to form under the wing and canard, further increasing lift. Thus in this particular vehicle you can't use the standard equation for power based on disk loading.
vertically
The rotor of the Fairey Gyrodyne was always powered during flight. Two thirds of engine power was directed to the rotor for vertical takeoff with the remaining one third directed to the single propeller situated beneath the advancing side if the rotor disk. As airspeed increased propeller power loading decreased until two thirds of the engine power was directed to the propeller. The remaining one third of engine power drove the rotor so it would maintain rpm while while flying parallel to the flight path with the collective pitch close to or in autorotative settting. This minimized axial flow through the rotor which, along with the lateraly mounted single propeller are the defining features of a gyrodyne. The defining features of a gyroplane are positive axial flow through the rotor with a propeller proving thrust for translational flight. The defining features of a helicopter are negative axial flow through the rotor with a horizontal component of rotor thrust used to enable translational flight.
A rotorcraft that powers its rotor for low speed/vertical flight and and autororotates that same rotor for cruise flight is a compound gyroplane, not a gyrodyne.
See: www.researchgate.net/publication/290776162_The_Cierva_Gyrodyne
Informative. Thanks. Some say tip jet noise was partly the reason for Rotodyne failure. Would be nice to see a recreation.
Great content well presented. Thank you. Would be interested to hear of your tale on plasma electric engines (in this and other applications)!
A video is in the que
Are retractable blades feasible?
The first time I saw the carter gyrocoptor(the prototype of the Jaunt), I realized that the rotodyne had been redesigned.
Some drone designs use this type of design, I saw one with 2 vtol rotors on body and 2 wing ones for flight, the lift rotors turn off when cruising.
Hey. I've been meaning to ask you how we can donate to your channel? 💗
Well I have a full time job at present so thank you. For now, your gesture is enough
I second this!
@@ElectricAviation I let the ads run, hopefully you will receive some revenue.
Does the downward flow of air from the rotar get converted into any forward thrust or lift when it encounters the wing airfoil? Excellent video. Thanks
The air going through the rotor goes upward, that's how it provides a constant parachute effect. Cool huh,
Carter Aviation's slowed rotor was ahead of its time. I watched them for years. They had data and prototypes that showed very high fuel efficiency, but they couldn't get interest to commercialize the passenger/cargo version that would have changed the aviation market. Hopefully the interest in a clean electric version will push it forward. The autogyro's inherent safety vs. a stack of VTOL fans and all of the failure points those systems have would make me more likely to use it.
TY
Sold :-)
Good show/analysis,i wondered about this,thankyou.i wondered also if a parachute or para sail,could be incorporated into the rotor blades hub,to save battery power.sounds crazy combining high rotation components with a parachute/sail and strings,but if the forward motion is maintained without the rotar blades,then surely this could be feasable,and the gliding speed would come to a halt proportionately to the resistive force of the chute, long after the blades are disengaged
is a multi-rotor autogyro possible?
Unfortunately they are way behind, the Jaunt company started 2019 and ROSA will only be produced in 2025 and that is simply too slow for the rapidly changing market in these next years.
I dont think its that bad. The reason is their design is banking on 300 Wh/kg batteries minimum. While we have only a couple of suppliers for this energy density, but by the time 2025 come we might exceed 350 Wh/kg
Power for take off could come from mains electricity via a detachable feed. If this were a cable it could even power the rotor for some metres of ascent after lift off, thereby saving the most severe drain on the batteries. Used as a shuttle between regular destinations, power could always be available in this way. Battery recharging facilities would be needed anyway.
The Rotodyne's noise level was not addressed. Most of it came, not from the twin turboshaft engines on the tiny wings, but from the small jet engines in the rotor tips. This jet noise was the downfall. At least that's the story the public ws fed. As you pointed out, they were well on the way in bringing down that noise level. The real reason it was cancelled were the other companies that made regular airliners. If the Rotodyne had gone though, it might have meant less sales for their aircraft at home, (England), and abroad. They petitioned the government to stop the project. Personally, I don't know if money was exchanged, but, we hear enough stories about that kind of thing that I would not be surprised.
What parts were used in aeroplane in world wars to reduce noise of aeroplanes,missiles
Is it possible to "freeze" the rotor perpendicular to the body to gain additional lift? I believe that one side of the blade has to be reversed.
That is done by and X-wing aircraft, that is we can freeze the rotor and change the cross section of blades on one side. I have covered this in a video called "Wings of change"
Adding smaller size 4 blade main rotor instead of 2 blade longer size with high tip speed wouldn't be beneficial?
not exactly about this Video: but why are there no gliders / sailplanes reviewed on this channel? I mean that is the area, where electric propulsion is used sucsesfully for for quite some time now.
Please do watch the next video (coming Thursday). We will cover them. Its just that eVTOL are all the rage right now so that is why they were prioritized
First time on the channel. Very good video, particularly liked the explanation of disk loading.
I think it was a little let down by the sound quality of the narration and you could improve it easily with some sound deadening material near the mic. Also I had to think a bit about what L/D ratio was - I guess Lift/Drag - I'm not an aircraft professional, just someone who thinks the fairey rotordyne was cool.
I've been a big Rotodyne fan for many years now :) 2 points with this proposed design: asymmetric handling with an engine out would be a challenge with the motors being positioned so far away from the a/c centre-line, and how is the main rotor powered for TO and landing?
They should try Intermeshing rotors configuration (synchropter). Like a "K-MAX" helicopter /
It will be a real new experience in model building! I've never seen anything like this!
It's a pity that no one has tried such a scheme for gyroplanes.
Excellent and informative video.I think the Jaunt entry has a leg up on it's competition for the simple reason autogyros are already an accepted aircraft category in the regulatory scheme of things,whereas other new VTOL aircraft would require completely new flight categories,which would be very expensive to develop. I am also thinking Jaunt could use it's electric wing props to counteract the torque of the main rotor if the latter were briefly powered for takeoff/landing,eliminating the need for tip jets as seen in the original Fairey Rotodyne.
The number of good engineering projects that have been shut down by government, world beating ideas killed and with them our engineering companies were gradually consigned to a lesser position in the world. We now have a country lacking in manufacturing companies buying our needs from abroad. The years of producing machines that were amazing after the war until the sixties is gone.
I keep revisiting this video because it carries a strong message. That many VTOL machines are optimised for cruise flight
Blackfly: Blackfly 'rotates' on its curved bottom to achieve the attitude for vertical flight, then transitions to cruise. It has on its wings essentially the same motor prop combinations fore and aft. As a tandem wing aircraft it is necessary to have the CG well forward, and rig the machine for a Clmax of 2.0 for the canard, and 0.8 Clmax for the mainplane. This gives an expected average of Clmax 1.4 for the machine entire, which is well within the scope of everyday technology.
Ordinarily this would mean that the CG which I position at th belly button of the pilot, would be out of position for vertical lift and horizontal flight, but the designer cleverly thought of this. With forward flight characteristics satisfied, the balance of the thrust power is evenly distributed because the vertical thrust footprint situates the CG between the two wings quite perfectly. But oh that pilot position.
Rotordyne: The fly in the ointment for Rotordyne is that it requires a collective pitch control rotor, which is neither cheap nor simple to achieve. however as an autogyro conventionally the pitch is usually fixed. With the disk spun up via torqueless means you are in a position to lift off at minimal speed but likely not vertical take off unless in a strong breeze. And here again, the CG to centre of lift issue would come up unless one utilised the mechanism of shifting the rotor mast as we saw here, but there is another way.
Not as yet seen a two rotor autogyro, configured like a Chinook (think more like smaller McCulloch MC-4), with tractor propulsion. Because the rotors run at different heights, they somewhat avoid each other's interference flow, and the distributed lift cancels CG balance issues. With 'pre-rotor' management the typical gyro copter is able to lift off at 15mph or so, but clearly more thrust on a 'very' positive angle of attack attitude would reduce that on full power. This is quite close to vertical take off with very few complicated expensive moving parts, that compacts the rotor footprint and reduces disk loading.
Thank you. This is a very informative comment. I will pin it
The idea of city center air travel goes back to the 1930s. It was originally intended for zepplins visiting NYC to dock at the top of the Empire State building.
Still one of my favorite evtol, not so sure about their new parent company though. Nothing seems to be happening while this should be one of the top contenders for the new evtol marketplace.
Nice Video. Thank you!
Do you know a Gyro-copter with two rotors to reduce rotor diameter? May this could be the solution for the Gyrodyne. Less diameter = less noise = less tip speed.
Best regards from Germany
Yes I mention that at the end of the video. Coaxial gyros
@@ElectricAviation Better still a multi-stage compressor rotor
1:39 it was literally the only aircraft in it's category
i woiuld lobve to see this in the air - or a modern version of teh technology
Next up, video on Eviation please!
There is already one on Eviation
czcams.com/video/-sTH8XzFBY0/video.html
When i was a kid i designed a variant of autogyro, which i named Auto-gyric Heleocentric Sparrowcopter. Dont ask me more there is no reason to things you name when you are a kid, i just happened to like sparrows so i named it that way.
I love it. When can we buy one. It's the perfect aircraft.
One aspect of the power-to-horsepower calculation is damaging to all ducted fan configurations. The presenter gives the raw swept area of the ducted fan rotors, without taking into account the effect of the duct in amplifying the thrust available from a given power. Theoretically, the factor is two. Detracting from this is the fact that the Lillium fans are close together, which means they must "share" part of their mass flow. But contributing is the area of the wing and flap, which are in effect huge duct lip extensions. Admittedly, there is still a large gap between a large open rotor and small ducted fans, but a factor of two could separate a feasible from a non-feasible configuration.
Juan De la Cierva, un genio injustamente olvidado. Sin él el helicóptero hubiera tenido una evolución mas lenta. El autogiro aporta también gran simplicidad y seguridad a la aviación, pudiéndola hacer más accesible al común de los mortales, ese es el principal problema.
A great solution for places where runways are impractical or impossible.
The Bell Huey broad rotors are very loud and, not acceptable by the public anymore. Central main rotors are not the way forward, expensive, high maintenance, a pain to change.
A rotor with a diameter of 27.4 meters at 152 rpm has a tip speed of 785 kph if my math is correct.
This is my main concern with electric tipjets. An exhaust propulsion has a fixed power regardless of relative speed. A tractive propulsion loses ability the faster the relative speed of material, in this case air. Can we make (and is it worth making) electric fans small enough that can achieve this?