LIVE: TENOR TALK - PART: 2 - Observations, Tips, Technique, and Methodology
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 06. 2024
- đ đ Thank you everyone for all the feedback and questions!
đ¶ Here is (PART 2) of Live: TENOR TALK where I go a little more in depth in certain topics and themes I touched on the first video.
I Hope these session clear certain questions raised in the first video
đ„ VIDEO LINK: If you havenât watched the first video here is the link: âą LIVE: TENOR TALK - PAR...
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â€ïž Feel free to comment on what else youâd like to see and hear on the channel. And if youâd like more videos about technique comment on what aspect of the voice youâd like to hear more about!
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As the original creator of Tenor Talk, I am happy you are picking up this torch as an open discussion and the sharing of ideas so freely is, in my estimation, a labor of love toward opera and a great act of camaraderie toward your fellow tenors!
Also, I am glad you have found this gentle approach. We only met once in lesson, but as I see you have found everything I would have wanted you to find.
Many of the things you say, are things I recognize as things I have shared for many years.
Side note: the Bernoulli effect in pedagogy is overstated if not really just wrong. When one sends from the brain the command to move air, there will undoubtedly be a weakening of adduction as air movement triggers abductors.
Scientifically, there is no adduction without adductors bringing the folds together. Once folds are closed without gaps, the pressure mounts under them, so the pressure above is less than below them. Then the vocal fold WHILE STILL BEING CLOSED IN THE BACK, allows for a release of air pressure in a wave of opening from bottom toward top. Then suddenly the pressure above the cord is greater than below it because of the air that moved through that wave of opening. But the muscles that adduct are still active when that happens. The pressure above the cord being greater is what triggers (it would seem) a return of the edges back together. That is what aids the return to closure in the cord. Itâs not the air movement but rather the pressure differential. That pressure differential requires adduction in the first place. If there are gaps in the cords, the phonation is injured because this differential is off. Again this is theory, as I donât think this is proven yet, but it is based on sound theory. Also more intense harmonics require the cords to quickly come back together strongly (stronger closed phase). So the cords stay closed longer than they do open. When they open it is brief and then come back together energetically. This produces intensity. That is not because of air movement, it is because of strong adduction.
What you are doing is not wrong, but you are verbalizing your feeling of ease with incorrect info. I wanted to state this to dispel the idea of moving air to get closure. The sigh you demonstrate is a âsound sighâ not an âair sighâ. How do I know that? Because you could probably hold that sound for 30+ seconds. Airy sounds canât be held long. I would advise you to not believe that air movement gets you to closure. It is gentleness of timbre that does⊠gentle sound sighs, not air sighs. The command of moving air weakens adduction and so it works against theatricality and resonance.
Having said all this, it is also true that piano singing has a weaker closed phase than forte singing, so is less medial energy, but also has less pressure. When you move from piano to forte there is an increase in medial compression. But the intensity of the beam of resonance does not really emerge with great energy until one gets to a stronger medial compression or a stronger closed phase. Overall, gentleness is key as we should sing on the interest not the capital if we wan to sing for a long time.
Bravo José!
Jack Livigni
My dear Jack! Wonderful comment and Fantastic information! đâïž I admit I was incorrect in stating the Bernoulliâs effect for vocal closure. Indeed it was the ease in phonation that I was trying to describe. I will be making another video addressing this to correct the information especially the idea of not moving or forcing air to achieve adduction if anything that would blow open your cords and get a weaker closure in the cords.
I have always been a big fan and I loved your new videos especially the idea of seeing air as âvaporâ rising right before phonation. Would love to work with together in a video sometime! Much love!
-Jose Simerilla Romero
@@Tenor_Simerillaâ€
I have a feeling that this is that eureka moment. Singers such as Pavarotti, Joan Sutherland, Julie Andrews and Maria Callas (in their respective youth) perfected this system. However, when we see them supporting it seems as though they are pushing through more air, where in fact, they are actually creating that wonderful balance between the abduction and the right amount of air under the chords for that perfect chord closure without pushing, which in the upper register requires immense concentration and a well controlled breath mechanism.
As a 37 year old tenor in training who's just opening up his G, G# and A I am in awe at the treasure trove of wisdom the two of you have put online for other singers to benefit and grow from. A thousand thanks wouldn't come close to expressing my gratitude to both of you for your contributions, Maestros! đ«
@Tenor_Simerilla Hello José! it's a pleasure to greet you, both you and Jack in case he reads this. I stumbled upon your channel a few days ago and I'm thrilled. I'm a beginner in singing, and as you rightly say, it's often very confusing because I hear contradictory opinions from different singers and teachers.
In this video, when you mentioned 'glottal attack,' it raised a red flag for me because according to Mr.MICHAEL TRIMBLE (I don't know if you know him, he's now dedicated to teaching, but in his day he was a recognized tenor. He has many videos on CZcams, you can hear how he sang in his prime. Amazing...), it's an incorrect way of singing.
I don't know if Mr. Trimble and you use the same term to refer to different things, or if there's something I'm missing.
Here the links:
Glottal attack: czcams.com/video/ZW4tM84IpiA/video.htmlsi=-PYJx3ar8xtmFtcC.
His singing: czcams.com/video/2SA6Te_AA3w/video.htmlsi=m6QVDeoMFNkbeSQg
I would love to hear your opinion and shed some light on this art that becomes so complicated, sincerely.
My sincerest thanks and congratulations on what you have achieved.
Best regards
Best video on voice technique I found in years
At 15:00 you described a sad, frequent fact among lyric singing students. Some change teacher and technique, some loose interest. You give a useful advice: follow the path where your voice will sound relaxed , at ease, full, round. ( if I got it right)
Your tip of not losing the point of reference is such a Godsend. I was almost getting frustrated with myself because my head voice is so free and resonant, but adding the chest then feels like lifting weights and very sphincter feeling...but using your tip in going back to the point of reference is golden. My journey now is the connecting of this free head voice to the core of my voice/adding the chest voice without getting too weighted and losing that free feeling. Would love your tips on how to crescendo into a core sound especially in the fourth octave!!! This video was GOLDEN, you sir ... know what you are talking about (and my goodness your voice is stunning, that Bb was insane!)
LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE! Thanks so much! đđđŒđŒđđ
great video! a lot of useful tips and exercises! pure gold!
Great material, easy to understand, thanks!
Great advice! Appreciate how you communicate your vocal journey. Thank you!
Thank you for your great sharing. You sound so wonderful. I am so aligned with everything you say and yes..feeling is everything and âreciting in a sustained manner,â I love that, gratefully Nicholas
Thank you!!!
So helpful. Thank you for sharing these wonderful Tenor Talks.
Young man again canât thank you enough for making clearer the âart of producingâ soundâŠmy best sound đ
Mi profundo agradecimiento, Maestro, por dedicarle tiempo a compartir sus conocimientos.
Just discovered this channel. This content is priceless, thank you very much Jose!
Thank you so much â€
Thank you for such a useful tips, please keep making videos for us, maybe more exercises on hitting high notes, just please donât stop making these videos we would really appreciate this. Thank you Jose!
Thank you very much! One of the best and convincing videos about technique on CZcams. Excellente and very helpful. I agree with everything except for the Bernoulli effect.
Excelente!!! Todo lo expuesto es totalmente verdadero. Yo tuve que volver al canto popular para limpiar tantos vicios y bloqueos que no permiten liberar la laringe sobre todo. Buscar el canto en la cotidianidad y en la naturalidad de la funciĂłn de la voz, que es comunicar. Muchas gracias en verdad por compartir
Aaaand subscribed
Muy buen video Jose. Muy didactico. Se parece mucho a lo que dicen Li Vigni y Andrew Owens. Yo personalmente hace mucho tiempo deje de intentarlo. Nunca logre hacer bien el tilt. Este video me reavivo las ganas de intentarlo.
Iâm 20 years old boy and Iâm learning operatic singing on my own like you. I always want to create a dark sound as you say. And youâre right, my throat get hurt, and my neck get squeezed as you said even Iâm singing E4 F4. One day, I started practicing the NG vowel at A3-B3; I felt the strong resonance vibates in my mask area, and it feels so great. I feel like my whole head is vibrating like when we touch an operating massage gun. Iâll keep working on the NG, my instinct told me that Iâm doing right thing. Thank you teacher. Hope you give me some advices what should I do next.
Tolle Inspiration fĂŒr einen alten SĂ€nger, danke.
hahaha the jingle bell partđ€Ł
I really do love what you're doing......please could you do. Video on vowel modification and passagio.....
The most beautiful and difficult instrument to master- Rossini
I gave up also after various so called singing teachers who could only really play the piano. I read a book Great Singing by Great singers Jerome Hines
The advice from Franco Corelli who was also mostly self taught as was Del Monaco revealed the missing element. After some time and many disappointments Voila I crossed the barrier to the right production. Very good lesson here I must say. Bravo đ
Yes! Fantastic read!
@@Tenor_SimerillaYour voice is gorgeous ,crisp warm and melodious
I predict great success for you. Iâm a fan for sure.
What was the advice that helped you? Why wouldn't you tell us?đ
Iâd love to chat about singing in Germany sometime, congrats on your career bro.
Bravo Jose!
Felipe Äudina BegoviÄ
Have you ever studied with Jack Livigni?
If Bernoulli's effect was really operating our folds would close everytime we exhale... This effect doesn't apply for cord closure. Closure is only muscular. Very interesting video anyway. Thank you very much đ what you say about institutions is so true... There are so many teachers out there convinced they have THE technique and forbidden you to look for other method which could help you more... They think they can teach you to use something they don't feel at all but only hear from you.... Actually I think there no many good teachers anymore... Very famous teachers built there reputations on pupils who were naturally gifted....they usually have no impact on the singer who just needed to start singing but already have the voice for opera.
I think to an extent you can apply Bernoulli's to your vocal technique, the reason why in exhaling we don't produce sound is because the vocal cords are so far away you will need a really huge amount of flow with high speed to bring them together..
But for extreme vocal techniques or for the extreme highs like flageolet register you are stretching the cords to an extent that if you apply enough flow the cords will close, it's very effective for those who are starting to discover the flageolet register.
Bernoulli's effect applies only in the case of techniques involving more substantial medial compression. Actually quite the opposite of what is commonly taught. More airflow will not magically bring the cords into a better approximation. This is a common idea in pedagogy based on misunderstandings from 60s/70s era voice science. What he's teaching here is well-balanced and can definitely lead to good results, but it is not scientifically accurate.
In my experience, dramatic singers will also struggle to develop without going a little too far with medial compression initially before balancing it back.
â@@KaineHaywardI agree. About dramatic voice I think that it is maybe the need to feel a stronger musculature? What do you mean by medial compression? Thank you so much
@@nathanaelselig8595 Basically how hard the vocal folds are adducting. More medial compression = vocal folds vibrating more tightly together during phonation. Methods like Melocchi's (both its forebears and derivatives) can be very useful for developing dramatic voices because they focus on intentionally overdoing these more compressed aspects in training. In developing those voices, I think being more muscular in approach can really help (as long as you are precise about it and know what you're doing), but the end goal should always be a sense of ease and flow in my opinion. Just the way you get there will almost certainly not be the same as for a tenore leggero.
Yes I totally agree. Sometimes it's not easy because many people try to identify a voice according to the spoken voice but many should stop saying that we use spoken voice for singing... It's not the same think at all... Especially in opera... Volume is absolutely uncomparable and even the range... That's for a reason... Thank you for your answers it is very pleasant to read that some people stay very open minded on vocal techniques. :)
Not bad
Does anyone do a Baritone Talk?
đ they should!
You are so handsome dude
5:06 The most beautiful vibrato I ever have heard.
Interesting. But this light way of singing is not gonna work for a lirico spinto, etc.
Absolutely right. Generally good video except for the specious Bernoulli demonstration, but for more substantial instruments greater levels of medial and breath compression will be required for ease of emission.
@@KaineHayward exactly!
You are totaly wrong.
This is the way how to sing, but lirico spinto or spinto dramatic tenor voice is something what is your own gift come from God..anatomy of your body.
Lirico spinto..spinto dramatic, using this way( technique ) will be the same effect..
Sorry about my bad english, but i think you understand me..
THIS IS A WAY OF GOOD SCHOOL.
Bravo for the tenor of this video!
â@@mariomarjan You're entitled to your opinion, but I really wish singers and voice teachers would actually engage with an argument instead of just attempting to shut it down and remain in a sort of binary "correct" and "incorrect" paradigm, despite overwhelming evidence of variability the technical approaches of great singers.
It won't always be the case, but a true spinto or dramatic tenor can lose his access to the top using such an emphasis, for example, as Corelli did when he briefly studied with a soprano. There are very good scientific reasons for all of this, both related to function and acoustics. Anatomy is absolutely a factor and will give the voice a range of potential possibilities, but a different anatomy can require a slightly different emphasis in approach depending on the desired outcome of the singer. The ingredients are the same, but the way you get there can be different. It's all very individual also, based on starting point of course.
Even just think about the word "spingere". Why do you suppose we started using that terminology to describe a particular kind of tenor and soprano singing? The clue is in the higher amount of compression. To reiterate, I find the demonstration and technical ideas in the video very valid for a certain kind of singer, in spite of the sometimes dodgy scientific understanding.
I think all the spinto tenors before Del Monaco would disagree. But I do get your point. He is focusing more on gentleness in his demonstration. One needs to be able to move from stronger to weaker medial compression and back if they are to master dynamics in theatrical singing. This is for example something Corelli understood, as he applied more of what Lauri Volpi taught him rather than the purely Melocchian approach. In the end, it is better to sing on interest than capital. Even someone like Corelli didnât sing well once he hit 50. People that sing on the interests and every now and then give a full course meal are the ones who typically sing for a long time. I say typically because longevity is really more about physical stamina.
You are a good singer and I'm sure you produce some good results in your teaching, but your demonstration of the Bernoulli Principle as it applies to singing is not accurate and uses voice science that is about 50 years out of date. Subjective sensation and functional reality are two different things.
Larynx is way too high for me. Wonât carry in the theatre.
Carries just fine :)âŠremember laryngeal position doesnât play a major part in resonance. The amplification of the harmonics that creates squillo is a result of a narrowing of the aryepiglottic fold just above the larynx. In other words âCord Adductionâ. If you want the âpingâ to carry through the hall. Donât ever think you need to compress your larynx downwards and create a âBIG SPACEââŠthis will actually have the contrary effect youâre looking for. The voice may sound bigger to you but in the hall it will never get through the orchestra, and the added âSpaceâ will make it difficult to adduct the cords optimally and forgo any Squillo in the sound. Allowing the larynx to naturally lower but stay âFlexible/floated larynxâ. Soft palate raised, and cords adducted will allow for an easy phonation with enough resonance to cut through the orchestra without forcing or pushing the sound. Relying on these harmonics is tricky and sometimes scary because it may sound small to us but in the hall it cuts right through. Thatâs why most singers tend to get frightened and âmuscleâ their way through it. Which is mainly a recipe for disaster. đ
â@@Tenor_Simerilla let them find out the hard way. I swear these people have a fetish for Corelli or del monaco.
@@downfromkentuckehYou guys have fetishes for these white, unmanly, tiny, nasal voices.
Your"re obviously trained to make these sounds but you're misleading the followers and giving the impression that such a fine cord closure happens naturally but not by engaging support muscles and diaphragm. people don"t need to go to universities to get music degrees but rather they should follow babies how they make sound.
Agreed, but this is a pretty common type of tenor whose sound is nice, but quite a long ways away from a resonant voice. He is using way too much air and subglottic pressure which results in using the thicker part of the chord. I don't know why this is the norm, IU via Kevin Murphy is teaching the same way. It's near impossible to have a nice color pallet with this type of singing in opera. Stretching the chords by sitting the voice on the pure falsetto, like Gili said, it's all falsetto but now they mix voices and have caused a completely misleading technical approach. Not meant in condemnation, but air consistently releases otherwise you won't make sound lol, Jack Livgni talks about that a bit, this failed approach of thinking about the air, big mistake because it will cause the mechanism to engage the false chords which you hear here. It's just in-breath. That's also why there is no warmth in the sound, no stretch just pulling chest and mixing.
This video is really addressed to people already have tons of experience or are professionals vocalist. Alot of what he is saying is less teaching for students or newbies, but more like sensations and concepts to make it work. Its like a reminder video with a POV.
sus notas son completamente abiertas, por su ,mala técnica de colocación