From 5 Hour Marathon to Sub 3, Michael Ovens | The Extramilest Show #19
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2019
- Michael improved from a 5:15 marathon to 3:18 marathon, with his eyes set on a Sub 3 marathon goal next. I am convinced he will reach this goal.
We all learn from our training and racing mistakes and in this episode Michael shares several of his painful mistakes and ups and downs in training, starting with his 5 hour marathon. He hit the wall so hard that he thought he got hit by a bus, several great stories there. This made him relook at his entire approach to training and racing.
He is now feeling so much better about his training and nutrition with reduced stress levels. We dive deep into a variety of topics around his training, MAF and low HR, nutrition, racing and more.
Thanks to everyone in the Extramilest Facebook group for submitting their questions. Thank you Mariano Uberti, Brian Ballard, Marc Copeland, Darren Rutgers, Rishi Sareen, Brandon Rose, Andy Sullivan, Vincent Cheah, Nicolas Garcia, Prashant Fadnavis, Dan Aupperlee, Dave Lee, Dave Lee, Saeed Khan, Blair Margot, Johan Sandgren, Rishi Sareen, Darren Rutgers and Morgan Pettersson.
LINKS FROM THIS EPISODE
* Michael Ovens on Strava - / strava
* Extramilest Community Stories - extramilest.com/community
* Extramilest Facebook Group - / 209003219602686
* The Triathlete’s Training Bible by Joe Friel
* PDF of Marathon Fundamentals by Floris - bit.ly/2McGm55
* Zach Bitter - zachbitter.com/
* Paleo diet - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoli...
* Ketogenic diet - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogen...
* Josh Sambrook Podcast - Race Faster by Training Slower - bit.ly/2KNsz4o
* Josh Sambrook Jset - jset.run
* Tanda Race Prediction Tool - tandaracepredictor.com
* Myfitnesspal nutrition tracker - www.myfitnesspal.com/apps
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SHOW NOTES
* Michael background in running [4:46]
* His first marathon training and first 5 hour marathon race experience in 2010 [6:10]
* Bringing down his 1/2 marathon time from 2:20 to 1:48, still loads of injuries and exhausted [7:40]
* How his training approach changed after reading The Triathlete’s Training Bible [8:40]
* The heart rate zone Michael started training at [9:50]
* Michael’s second marathon experience with the worst bonk he ever experienced “felt like hit by a bus” [11:00]
* When Michael discovered the PDF Flo wrote with Marathon Training Fundamentals [11:45]
* Michael’s first experience with MAF low heart rate training [13:00]
* How Michael does a Lactate Test on a running track [13:55]
* Michel’s MAF test improvements down to 6:45 min / miles so far [15:10]
* Michael’s experience with Paleo and Keto [17:40]
* Floris’s own experience with Keto and his thoughts on nutrition [22:25]
* Michael’s last marathon in Amsterdam, things that went well and things that could be improved [25:00]
* The training approach for his last marathon with MAF low heart rate and his takeaways [28:10]
* Michael will be increasing his training volume to 60 or 70 miles = 97 or 113 km a week [30:00]
* How Michael is aiming to accomplish his Sub 3 marathon goal, with coaching by Josh Sambrook [31:50]
* Michaels watch setting during training and on race day [33:20]
* Strength training as part of Michael’s training approach [34:00]
* The main factors that helped Michael improve significantly over time so far [36:30]
* The biggest challenges Michael encountered with his training and his solutions [37:40]
* Typical training week for Michael, with mostly early morning runs [39:30]
* When training mostly at MAF, what HR strategy does Michael have for race day [40:50]
* Marathon pace runs during Michael’s training cycle [43:00]
* What Michael eats and drinks during training cycles [43:40]
* Beer is Michael’s one weakness [44:50]
* Michael’s struggle with weight and how he deals with it [45:40]
* Michael aims for 7 to 8 hours of sleep, now he has less training stress and gets more quality sleep [47:25]
* What Michael does to keep his stress levels low during the day [48:10]
* His next marathon, the Jersey Marathon on October 9, 2019 [49:35]
* Michael’s closing tips for runners looking to improve in their running [50:10]
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YOU CAN FIND ME, FLORIS GIERMAN HERE:
► Personal Best Program: www.pbprogram.com/
► Strava - / strava
► Website - extramilest.com
► Podcast - extramilest.com/podcast/
► Instagram - / florisgierman
► FB group - bit.ly/2M3qP40
Subscribe and hit the bell to see new videos: bit.ly/Flo-YT - Sport
The problem with experimenting with different foods is that it takes a very, very long time. It took me 5 or 6 months for my performance to return to normal levels after starting keto. I eat zero grams of carbs now and am now completely bonk-proof, but it took a hell of a lot of faith to allow my body time to adapt.
This is awesome
Thanks
Ive been doing maffs since january
Also cut out sugar and many refined carbs
Ive lost 13kg and am running 5 mins quicker over 5k from 28 down to 23min
Ive taken my 1/2 marathon down from 1:57 to 1:48
Im running my 12th marathon next weekend
My current pb is 4:13:19
Im feeling strong and hoping to break 4 hours
Im 55 years old and am lean and fitter than i ever been in my adulthood
Take away: run slower and farther, eat healthier. Thank you for a great conversation!
Excellent takeaways. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks!
Main takeaways for me was that before he started MAF, he had been running for a pretty long time already, with a developed aerobic base. He's been running for about 10 years between his first marathon (5:15) and his PR (3:18) for the marathon. It speaks volumes about having patience and that this is a long term thing. He could have possibly dropped that much time in 2-3 years (He dropped 2:20 to 1:48 half, which would be a roughly sub-4 hour marathon not too long after running his first. It's taken him 9 years because he did it in a holistic matter, not just improving his time, but his nutrition and dedication to the sport.
This can be slightly misleading to the rest of us slower runners (I'm currently aiming for sub-4 marathon), because my MAF pace is around 11:20 per mile (150 max HR, its been ridiculously hot these days, so its possible I'm also heat acclimatizing), while I can easily crank out 10 miles at 9:00 minute pace (157 HR). His MAF pace is 6:45, that's faster than my 5k pace lol. As a beginner, I think the takeaways are less about the MAF HR training, and more about slowing down your pace and increasing mileage, because that's where the benefit comes from. If slowing down, to crank out more miles, just happens to fall within the MAF spectrum (like it has for some of my runs), then thats awesome!
In a nutshell, I believe MAF may be helpful to him, but it's possible it coincides with what a slow pace day for him should be (6:45 per mile is blazingly fast for slow runs for the average runner!) because of how developed his aerobic system is over the 10 year span that he's been running. I'm on the fence still with MAF training, but I will say, slowing down most of my runs has helped me go from 25MPW to 40 MPW, with no injuries and fatigue levels not as high as they used to be. I'm not running entirely at MAF HR, probably a little higher, since I have about a 1 minute gain between my MAF HR (11:20) and a slow 10:00 pace. Lets see how 40MPW will help me increase my fitness.
Regardless, thanks for these interviews. I've learned plenty about them, and physiologically, I'm learning tons on how our bodies adapt to different training aspects.
You should actually read the book on Maf training... you are describing the philosophy to a tee while saying you disagree with it when it is identical to what you think.
If you both slow down and run further, then that will take up a lot more time from your day - have you managed to cope?
My MAF heart rate is only 125 so I'm forced to run extra slow (the joys of getting old!). I was doing 10:40 pace.
I started keto 2 years ago specifically to lose weight and I accepted that my running performance might suffer. It did initially but after 6 months I experienced a huge improvement in my fitness, so much so that the people in my Saturday track group were constantly asking what my secret was.
Get up early then “you’ve got that smug factor” got your training in for the day.😆I love this. Will be new favorite self-talk when I’m forcing myself up on a dark, cold morning. Thank you both for an enjoyable and useful conversation. As always, Floris, love the interviews!
My take away is you can never outrun a bad diet. Its been a month now i have been running completely on MAF and already i can see the improvement in my speeds between my two MAF tests. From 14min/mile i have gone to 13min which is still slow but to see the improvement is such a joy. But i still feel i can improve a lot and diet is something i need to concentrate on.
Key takeaway: take care of your body by putting in high volume but to do so at low intensity (at MAF/low heart rate). The PRs will come.
Yes, it's nice how your recovery is so much faster at lower intensity so you're able to increase that volume. All the best with your PR's, keep Michael and I posted!
i made a huge mistake going for a sub 2 half marathon i was constantly injured whilst training. although ive ran on and off for years i dint know maf was a thing when i did discover it i was running too hot or getting impatient doing it right now for the last week or so im not sore i can run every day and although im running 9-9:30 a km im leaving my ego at the door and just keeping with it my average heart rate every run is 148 bpm i live in a hilly area so having to walk the hills but i have a new lease on running. thanks to people like you!
"You can't outrun a poor nutrition" was one of my favorite quote. I also liked his comments about doing a lactate test and finding your own lactate threshold and heart rate zones. My dream is to go to a legit medical lab and be measured properly. Thanks for a great podcast and for the opportunity to win the Big book. I have one but would be excited to be able to give it to a friend who is intrigued by MAF.
My take away:
1) wake up 1h earlier, and do a morning bike/run/swim before your day starts. (I started this already, love it)
wake up an hour earlier but go to bed two hours earlier ;)
“Really grumpy with the kids and the wife!”
Another fab video, thanks Floris. Starting to see the benefits of following your tips.
"to get the sugar out of your diet and to trust in MAF"
Thank you Floris for all your videos!!! I started with MAF training 2 weeks ago. I am really looking forward to how my heart rate is going to improve next 3-6 month and what else is going to change. I am still getting used to run very slow with MAF. On my first try I even had to stop several times to lower my heart rate because I was still running too fast. Now I am getting used to run with my watch without having to stop. I was running 60 km in 1 week and I didn't have any pain in my legs. That is my new record :-). Thanky you for all your tips & tricks and interviews with such great people! I am looking forward to your next videos! Greetings from germany (and sorry for my bad english!)
Looking back on the training logs and reflecting upon on the progress made before a race will be something I practice from now on. Pre-race jitters could be unnerving and make us forget how hard we have worked and how far we have come. Thank you for your podcast! They are always insightful and inspiring!
“You can’t outrun poor nutrition” was a great point. I’ve tried the Maffetone method without eating better and saw very little improvement. I’ve run two full marathons with my best being 3:38. It excites me to think about would I could do with proper nutrition and MAF training. Love your podcast Floris. Please, keep the shows coming
So exciting to see improvement like this , it’s so more important than super fast from 1st grade etc. I love to see things like this, lots to learn.
One of my key takeaways - you have to be extremely patient in your way towards any particular goal. You shouldn't throw in the towel after the first few failures.
Nice interview. I am now trying to correct my biggest mistake from my last marathon training: train in a high pace! Hearing his improvements by training slower gave me more motivation.
Great interview and super informative recommendations thank you!!
I would love to see an interview with a MAF athlete who’s maf heart rate was 12-13min/mile.
You just start off walking a lot. Can lower the heart rate even more because there is a really uncomfortable spot between walking/running form and increase the duration. The results which you get are amazing.... personally better than the maf formula. They just never tested doing long enough efforts that a lower heart rate would require. No one is gonna volunteer for 2-3 hour efforts every day to see how it works on the population.
Hi Mike, My min mile pace was 12.30 at a HR of 136 (My MAF is technically 137). Within a year, it has dropped to 9.30 min mile pace at the same HR.
Im close to that
My Maff heartrate is 125
Im.doing maffs 80 % & intervals speed and hills 20%
I m running about 7:00 min km or 11:30 miles when doing my slow long runs
Ive been doing this since January and dropped my 5k time from 28 to 23 mins
My 1/2 marathon from 1:57 to 1:48
Im running my next marathon next weekend hoping for a 20 min pb which will take me to 3:50 ish
Perseverance with MAF does bring great results, cutting out the sugar and increasing mileage. Great interview and very inspirational thank you
The tip on finding out MAX HR is helpful. Very encouraging to see an interview with someone who is not a track star runner from school years. Thank you for doing these podcast Floris so much incredible and great information !!
Agreed!
Hi Floris, I have started following your podcast and love it. I have been experimenting with MAF and low HR training since April 2021 as started to run in January 2021 being overweight and making the mistake for first 3 months of going all-out in my runs but not progressing really... since starting MAF training things improved considerabley and managed to finish Berlin 2021 in 4:01h... then increasing volume whilst keeping intensity low I got a PB of 3:20h in Hannover back in April and now I am aiming for a sub-3h hopefully later this fall (San Sebastian on 27th Nov) or in 2024... it really helps me listening to other athletes that have gone through the same journey and learning what has helped them and some errors they made. Great interviews, they are really helping me in my own journey. Congratulations!
Another great interview Floris!
This was a very fascinating and real person's trails and tribulations in terms of trying to get the journey right towards accomplishing the goal of running a marathon. We usually hear of everybody's destination and not necessarily the journey. It was educational .
I'm finding it difficult to pinpoint one quote. For me it was comforting as a 39 year old with a young family and full time job to hear someone else doing the same things and just reinforcing that others are having similar experiences.
Hearing you both talk about early runs has inspired me to give them a go. I'll take that away and experiment.
As for returning some advice.... beer is just like sugar. Once you cut it out, you don't even think about it anymore after a couple of weeks. It's a habit, just like sugar in your coffee or chocolate. When I stopped drinking I had significant weight loss.
Great stuff guys!
I appreciated the reference to finding what works for you in eating. With so many food problems I keep reading that Paleo, Keto, Mediteranean etc is the best diet - I do a combo and now can feel that my plan is what is working for me and I can keep tweaking as I feel it needs changes.
Different diets work for different people. I have personally found Keto to be beneficial for marathon training. I recently ran the Edinburgh marathon (3:43) on Keto with no issues. 100% agree that sugar is not needed. If you're not prepared to go Keto then cut out sugar as a minimum. Great video as always Floris.
Yes. Its a bit of a dogma for some people (as you can see at the comment directly after yours).
Allways a low carb fan myself but never really tried Keto.
That's fine that it works well for you,but most low 3 and sub 3 people are on high carb diets.
@@sebastianzx6r most people are on high carb diets because that's what they're told is 'correct.' Although I am fairly new to Keto it's interesting to hear the supporting views of established doctors, scientists and athletes - Prof Tim Noakes, Dr Mark Cuccuzella, Phil Maffetone himself and Mark Allen.
Fantastic video, filled me with confidence in my current training of which I'm aiming for sub 3 marathon in April 2020.
Since I started training in November 2018, I've focused on HR zone training rather than pace, and using MyFitnessPal (the same macro split), and feeling the benefits.
Now subscribed...
Thank you, now I know I'm on the right track. I have to trust MAF method and be patient.
Running earlier in the day is a great tip and something I'm going to try and incorporate. Also reducing sugar. Only recently discovered your channel and am enjoying the content.
Hi Floris. Thank you again for a very informative video. Actually my big takeaway from today's episode was that we really do need a good balance in everything comprised with carbs. I was surprised to find out that going Keto too long or cutting too much carb could also be negative for our MAF training. Good to know. I won't lose several months of testing it out for myself and will simply learn from both of you guys experience. Thank you! :-)
For me, one of the many good points raised and it validates my current approach is that training in the zone 10 beats below your MAF gives you the ability to go out and run every day without feeling fatigued and stressed. I have never been able to do this in the past. As soon as I notice I'm starting to feel a little fatigued in general, whether from work, family or social, I'll run at a much lower heart rate for a few days, and that will get me back on track without compromising the training.
I liked hearing about reducing high stress triggers from your life --- any stress you can successfully reduce or remove in your life will only help you achieve your fitness goals!
Absolutely, it's eye opening how all these elements are important, not just the running, but also limiting the stress, getting the nutrition right, right strategy for race day, etc.
This is great floris excellent tips here my favourite cut out the sugar.Ive run 3 marathons 435,445,417, and in october i hope to break 350 Actually after watching this today im going to cut out sugar and alcohol altogether more vegetables .I do functional movement training once a week its low hr stuff lunges squats pistol squats..21 weeks to my next marathon great podcast very inspiring.
My take away in this vlog is the testimony of your guest about Maffetone training. low heart training requires patience and consistency. I learned about reducing sugars and increasing calories help runners in their diet balance. First time I hear about Keto nutrition. Thanks for sharing.
I really need to concentrate on running at a lower heart rate and just up my mileage. Very good info, thank you
Boom, solid takeaways right there. Keep me posted on your progress when trying this. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks!
The fact that Michael makes BIG improvements seem really achievable. I was initially just aiming for 3.59 in my next marathon but, with MAF training going well, my A goal is now 3.45, a B goal of 3.50 and a C goal of 3.59!
100% Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve.
Key takeaways for me is to keep the stress level really low, do away with sugar, anything refined/processed, and have a lot of patience! Thanks again for bringing us these podcasts!
@@vramkishore well said!! Happy to help spread the word. I'm learning as lot from all these podcast guests as well. Thanks!
Andy, how did the marathon go? Sub 4?
@@tankercrewchief yes, it went really well. I decided to that 3:50 was a more realistic goal based on how my build up went. I joined the 3:50 pace group and stayed with them until around 35kms then very slowly moved ahead. I finished in 3:48:38 and actually ran a slight negative split (a faster second half of the race). Couldn’t have been happier.
Main takeaways was that a lab test maybe worth the expense. As i have completed many joe friel feild tests and my zone calculations was quite different to maff. Thanks for the inteview
Another great action, Floris!
Very well said several things about nutrition. There is no magic bullet, no wonder diet because one size does not fit to all. Even in case of a particular person, periodization might be a good approach in terms of carb intake or amount of calories. Do not look out for cook book solutions, instead use trial and error and read your body how it reacts to training and diet changes.
YOU CAN'T OUT RUN A BAD DIET! Enjoyed yet another great production - thank you Floris and Michael!! Just for balance, like some others here, I have had a very positive ketogenic experience relative to running performance. Although it was been successful for me for 18 months, for non running performance related reasons I recently changed my diet and came out of ketosis. I may have benefited just because I cut out sugar and refined carbs (such a big change from my old diet!) but i experienced no ill effects going into ketosis. After 2 months of eating less than 50g carbohydrates daily I had a significant weight loss which will have contributed to a running performance increase. Then after 6 months, and one misfire at a stormy Boston 2018, I got my fastest ever marathon time shortly after Boston at Edinburgh 2018. I then got my second fastest marathon time in Berlin in the autumn of 2018, just a minute slower than Edinburgh. I'm 53yrs old/ 6ft5"/ 92kilos and began low heart rate training & keto in October 2017 after reading Maffetone's Big Book upon which I immediately implemented the changes. After getting over the typical keto-flu symptoms I didn't experience any of Floris and Michael's described negative side effects, such as higher resting HR etc. However, interestingly, anecdotally I seem to come across more stories of 'unhappy' keto experiments (carbs less than 50g) than successful ones despite my own very positive experience. For me there was absolutely no perceived loss in the top end of my running when I did higher intensity - in fact all this appears to improve for me the more severe the carb cutback (25g
Key take away: I just ordered a heart rate monitor.
amazing podcast Floris. Key points: Cut all sugar especially refine sugar and follow the MAF system.
Very inspiring to hear about his experience. Important to find your own imbalance through trial and error especially on nutrition, but cutting out sugar and rafined carbs should lead to improvement fir all of us. Think this was good advice!
"just cut out all the sugar"...
I like this because I have recently been noticing the effect of sugar on my body and heart rate.
Been cutting back but I think it's time to cut it OUT!
Thank you for the chance to win
Tim Lucas
What was your favorite quote or takeaway from this episode? Congrats to Josh Larson for winning Dr. Phil Maffetone’s Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing!
[Re: topic of mixing beer and training] "Surely it's carb loading; it must be quite good for you." 🤞😜🤣
@@TasterJoel haha, that was classic for sure!
"You cannot outrun a poor nutrition" - It's so very true
low-intensity training not to feel exhausted after every run, this led to high mileage and injury free. And also cutting all sugars.
„Patience is key“ a really good quote in this world were everything goes so fast
Another fascinating watch Floris! Having been running mainly MAF miles myself now for nearly 8 months I feel I’ve plateaued recently so it’s always good to see others talking of the success of sticking with it and having patience. I’ll take away many things from this but mainly how much improvement could be made by removing sugar from my diet. Unfortunately I’ve a really sweet tooth. I wonder how many on the extramilest group have achieved satisfying gains without completely removing sugar from their diet or even managed a sub3 marathon?
I found Michael's discussion of his diet useful. My takeaway is to look at moving away from my keto diet, which has been great for weight maintenance, fat burning, and hunger control but may not be working for my endurance training. Michael said that keto added heart beats to his HR which I didn't know keto could do.
Very good interview
I can identify with issue of time.
Early starting is an excellent solution when you are a full time worker.
Another point is constancy and going 1
5 -10 beats lower than the MAF HR to improve performance
well summarized right there. those early starts are a great solution when working full time. Glad you enjoyed the video Meqdad!
Thank you Floris and Michael, really enjoy listening to your show. I am impressed by your sincerity and friendliness. It has taking me a while to adjust to your ideas, mainly because I don't fit your typical demographic. My main takeaway from today's show is that I don't have to do the Keto diet and most importantly that a lactate test might work well for me. I had one done in 2015 and he determined my lactate threshold at 146 and my MAF zone at 120 to 140. SO currently that would put me at 120 to 136. Please let me know what your thoughts on this are? Thank you
Hi Floris, I just recently discovered your channel and I am very impressed and interested on this type of training.
Michael Ovens is really inspiring and for me a living example that the training and running at low heart rate works.
I am an "old" newcomer (57 years old) and trying to fulfill a personal goal of running a marathon under 4 hours.
I will buy me a heart beat monitor and start training. I will let you know my progress.
A lot of success for you in December too.
“I’ll never do it again” feeling after 1st marathon is so classic and familiar 😁
Wow..thats a great story.
Awesome channel !
Subscribed.
Welcome aboard!
The kept conversation was interesting.
"Can't outrun bad nutrition" -quote of year!
Great Stuff ! Run Slower to get faster as a 60 yr old runner this sounds perfect for me
I totally agree always go one pen ahead as those first few miles/km have too many people going too slow!
Key take away: Get a wearable/watch/monitor and focus your training on heart rate zones. Thank you so much for the video and the show!
Also, nutrition is key too!
Congrats on winning the contest this week, Dr Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing. Please reach out to me with your address
@@FlorisGierman Thanks! Just saw this today. What is the best way to reach out to get that to you? Thanks again!
Edit: Sent you an email to the address on the youtube about page.
"Patient is key" 👌
This was going to be mine as well, it's been echoed by a few guests I think.
Key takeaway was doing a track test to find lactate threshold and seeing how it compares to the maffetone formula.
5am runs, to get some quality run time! It's a lot easier now this time of year opposed to a wet dark December morning :-)
Great interview! Nice to see him concentrate on nutrition apart from running. I train on low carb n high fat diet, more fat adapted and able to run ultras with no bonking (though I don't kill myself with timings). Patience is the key, keto takes time, but the intensity and strength does come back, HR goes really low, especially during fasting period. It has to be done right, each individual is different n needs to tweak it slightly. There are great materials out there for low carb! (Keto is different from low carbs, you will cycle into and out of ketosis based on periods of fasting n exercises)
Im only 10 minutes in and I can relate so much. Times are nearly identical. Half started at 2:20 and is now 1:48, inconsistent training (back injury), and running everything too fast. Marathon is 4:10:36 but I’d love to run low 3:00:00! 👂
Great interview Floris and Michael. Major takeaways: you don't really need to have a background in running from an early age to become a faster runner and that diet is very much a subjective topic. I was also not the athletic type and never been that good at any sport, mediocre at best. Having started running at 34 y.o. and being focused on getting faster from the outset really didn't help. I got the usual array of running injuries and was making very slow progress even after 2 years of semi-consistent, albeit low milage training (under 50km pw). I ran several half marathons in the 2hrs-1.50 range and several ultras (up to 50 Miles). The major stumbling block was being diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer early this year. All running came to a halt for 3 months. This forced me to start running at a much lower hart rate than was used to which eventually opened my eyes to MAF and i can already see the benefits. 7 weeks in and i can see the times tumbling already. My diet has always being relatively healthy but I now slowly moving away from useless refined carbs and i've noticed i no longer suffer from the spikes in energy i used to suffer from. I am currently training for a half marathon (Guernsey, Channel Islands) as my getaway race to the Jersey Marathon on 6th October (same as Michael) and relishing the challenge. As my first race after the operation I am certainly not looking to break any records but use it as a springboard back to semi-full fitness after the op. I have read your 30 page manual and found it a great source of info, thanks for putting that together. Keep up the good work Floris!
Using Heartrate instead of pace on the watch, or Heart Rate and time. Good advice, looking at the pace makes the mental game harder.
Biggest take away for me was cutting out all added sugars while still keeping carbs. Seems to be a real trend from most of your interviews!
I live on the island too & a V I Runner, would love to meet up with Michael, a really cool nterview
Can anyone help me understand why my HR can be quite high but I’m not breathing hard? Is it possible that my Max HR is quite a bit higher than that determined by Maffetone?
Fyi am 35 trainning to run my first marathon in 3:30. Due to covid 19, may 17 race cancelled, i defered to 2021, but am still training i do my plan as schedule to see how it goes, my first 20miles was 10:53 pace, my second 20 miles was a 9:53 pace, i have my 3rd 20miles in two weeks. My race pace suppose be 8minutes. We will see either way am taking notes so i can know how to improve for next year, thanks for the podcast
Exciting times ahead for you Robin. Enjoy your marathon taper and please let me know how your first marathon experience was. Cheers
When people say they take the sugar out are they including the run specific fueling such as bananas and gels?
Hi! Great to hear from you! Cut out sugar, is that refined sugar really you are meaning, like, no biscuits, no tea with sugar etc. I mean, can I still have my sprinkling of honey nut cornflakes over museli for breakfast and honey on Greek yog and fruit as desert after dinner ?
Over the month of march ran my first marathon at 3:40 - next month looking to qualify for Boston at 3:15 this just simplify the work that go into training etc
Excellent, let me know how it goes!
"You can't outrun a bad nutrition "
Nutrition! "I look at a pie and I put on some weight" :-)
Great video. I've been in a bit of a downer after having an awful marathon last Sunday at Edinburgh. Training had been going great and felt confident of a PB which was 3.14 on a hilly course last year and Edinburgh is pretty flat.
Sadly the wheels came off at mile 20 as cramp hit me together with a strong head wind.
Was running comfortably up to 23 miles in training and had got a 10k PB last month in 37.08 so felt good for if not getting a sub 3 at least getting under 3.10.
Finished in 3.18 and was close to sacking it and now need to go back to the drawing board.
@ 14.09 Floris states that he had a formal lab test, and I concur after being tested myself at a lab, that my own " Threshold test" produced results no where near the results I was given from the lab. However, what is interesting is that my zone 2 level from the lab testing is actually spot on with the Maff 180-age. So if anything I know that the Maff formula works for me! 115-125bpm is my aerobic zone from the lad test. 180-55 ( my age) gives 125bpm. I am on long term meds so can drop 10bpm, which ironically produces better results.
Therefore I would recommend following the Maff formula, and save yourself money, however if you do have a test you may actually realise that 1. You have been running too slow, or 2. You have been running too fast!
P.S Floris my favourite takeaway from this is you can actually relate to athletes who have babies or young children.
Floris, just found your channel. Very nice. I looked for your pdf Fundamentals of Training and Racing on your website but could not find it through the search (in fact I couldn't find any pdfs). Is it still there? How can I get it?
Thanks.
Thanks! Here you go: extramilest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sub3hourmarathon-Extramilest.pdf
Best take away from me would be removing sugar..... I have to close my eyes every time I go into a shop to walk past the crisps... I seriously have a crisp problem... any flavour any size 😩
And let's not talk about sleep.... I got to bed at 10 but the CZcams devil has me wide awake til between after midnight most nights. With a wake up at 0530 for my run 😩
Ahahahahaha! That clip of your lactate test in the lab! That was funny 😆😆😆
haha, always a fun and painful experience those tests!! 🥳
At17 bonked so hard I blacked out while running in 400m so at 19 trained instead of mafg pace but at gaining pace. Trying to induce fainting. To progress from 300m to 350m. Goal dub 40 seconds.my best marathon 3:48 I started from very back do I don't run too fast.
After Olympic gold Frank shorted fridge carries Twinkie and a beer.
Remove sugar.
Gained 25 pounds sitting 9months acl tear 3meniscus years. Work related ran 50 of 100milecrace. About 4of them. My mileage was around 40miles/week. Ran 2,000km last year. Struggling to reduce pounds while not running. Biking a bit more. But I'm a sugar grind. Real hard to remove sugar and meat. I feel weak without meat.
New subscriber, and I've watched a lot of your videos. Can you suggest books I should get, read for marathon training, low heart rate training, ultra training that are must-reads and guides? Any that are written by some of your guests, like Dr. Steven Seiler?
Just did my first 3 mile MAF test (couldn't do 5 miles!) Jogged throughout even though it was slower than I can walk! 21:34 22:36 & 26:03 per mile!!! I have so far to go!!!!
How did you calculate it and do you happen to know your Max HR and outside temperature when you did your first MAF test?
@@FlorisGierman I'm on a treadmill with a stopwatch and checking each mile. It is around 22ºC and indoors so no breeze. Last time I checked my Max HR was 167. I really need to check it now that I've done 2 months of MAF. My RHR has gone down from 60 to 54bpm.. I feel comfortable running at 123 bpm and start to sweat at this precise HR! I will keep at it 🙂
Do you do 8020 or do you do fall out MAF the whole time. When I do 100% slow training I’ll Collett I get real bored and just put in a little bit a speech sessions in there I guess helps my mind.But for me I’m more of a trail runner so I guess my effort and times would be different I look at my higher heart rate stuff is my hills
So I'm snacking on an Oreo when I turned on this video and the first thing I heard was get that sugar out of ur diet. I was like, well shoot, I've messed up already🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
I've been using a Polar plan for a half marathon in August, but I find it hard to believe my MAF is correct. I'm 49 years old, but my may heart rate is 190. Really, I can work for minutes between 185-191.
I see much younger guys and I just think, can they really be running at 135? Any suggestions for dialing in my zones? I wish I had the €463 for the full lactate workup, but I don't.
(Fitness benchmark: last week I ran 2k at 4:56 min/km. I had maybe another lap in me, but not another km ;-)
I love: "you can't outrun poor nutrition"
do you use same zones as running when doing bike rides? would it be beneficial using same zones?
yes, although you'll notice it's harder on a bike to get your HR up compared to with running it goes up much faster. Biking will take more effort for your HR to reach your MAF HR compared to running
@@FlorisGierman atm trying to keep 130-140HR and using 150W. I weigh 82kg so just under 2W/kg. My last FTP was 248. Yeah I have a lot to work on my aerobic side.
Where can you do a blood lactate test? I want to do this. After I get a few months of Maff under my built. I am 57 but very active. I do have skinny Fat issues on low car diet. Hoping Maff can help. I think I should be training at higher heart rate after Itake care of the access fat being stored in my body, I would like to do Lactate test in a lab.
It always surprises me when one of Floris' guests mentions swimming as a "low heart rate sport or "it's tough to get your heart rate up swimming." Perhaps it is just that I swam on club teams and focused on pool distances (instead of triathlon distances), but achieving a heart rate of 190 plus was never an issue for me (even if I only had 100 yards to do it).
I know what you mean, I think many endurance athletes are focusing on the slow and steady swims vs hard intensity sprints
Sub 3hr marathon is 60-70 miles a week! Good to know 😊 ...#takeaway ‘if you pick up your training miles very quickly then you are grumpy with kids and the wife’...hahaha 🤓. I have been training and looking forward to my first half on 29th June, I am a slow runner but coming around with training. 🤞
How long? How many months years?
Another great pod cast Floris. 36:30 cut out all sugars and stick to low hart rate. I'm am trying to find the right food so going to start with getting rid of sugar. Also I don't have to stop drinking beer's YES
Floris, You mentioned that runners 60 and over may have a larger adjustment to the MAF heart rate. I am a 61 years old about to turn 62 and I have been running since I was 14. I started using the MAF method recently because I want to regain my aerobic base which I feel I have lost over the last couple of years. I have a tendency of running at a faster pace than I should and I end up stopping to catch my breath. Since I have been running for so long, I added 5 points to my MAF heart rate of 118 for a total of 123 (not sure if this right). At this heart rate, I am running 11:45/mile and at times I feel like I am shuffling but the important thing is I am not out of breath. Being that I am over 60, what kind of adjustment are you referring to?
Hi Rick, I suggest reading this article: duathlon.com/articles/1460/
Am listening to this podcast and my husband walks in on the part that says he hit a bus, and my husband says he hit a bus, so i pause the podcast to explain😂
hahaha, that's surely a bit of explaining to do there!
If his MAF is @6'45/mile (4'12/km) which is already a 2h57 Marathon time at a lower zone 2 😊, Shouldn't he be able to run a sub 2h30 at zone 3 logically? 🤔
Few ways to look at this. If your MAF pace is 6:45 min / mile, your marathon time will most probably not be sub 2h30. I've also had MAF paces faster than 6:45 min / miles and have not ran sub 2:30 (current PB 2:44). Dr. Maffetone has mentioned about 15 sec faster than MAF as average HR time. I've also seen 15 to 20 beats higher than MAF HR. I think there is no one size fits all approach here in marathon time prediction based on MAF times or HR zones
@@FlorisGierman Sure I agree that there is certainly no one size fits all'👍 I found it pretty intriguing that his Marathon pace was that much slower than his MAF pace, it's not common at all...
Key takeaway. Run 10 below maf
Michael...you're beautiful. Thank you sir.
Healthy not just fit!
I can give up my family but i love sugar!
😂
Are you guys saying maff or max?
MAF