Why You Can't Get a Good Metal Tone (How to Stop Wasting Time on Tone)
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Metal Tone Guide: www.jasonstall...
As metal guitar players, we spend way too much time and energy trying to dial in a good metal tone.
Even worse, many are constantly chasing someone else's guitar tone.
In this video, I breakdown all of the elements as to why you can't dial in a good metal tone that sounds like your favorite band or guitar player.
You'll also learn the things you need to think about when it comes to dialing in a good metal tone for your song or album.
Keep it Metal,
Jason
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This is an example of a video every musician needs but they never know they need it. The recording effects, mixing, layering, panning and mastering process affects recorded sounds immensely and this never gets talked about. Thank you man! I'm learning recording and mastering as well and this is one of those subjects that really opens your eyes and ears.
Yeah dude, the whole art of post-processing, mixing, and mastering is a different world! But as you said, very eye opening!
it's a good reminder. i really wish i spent as much time practicing as i did chasing tone, its such an unproductive obsession and tends to drive me nuts especially with all the options available today (which isn't a bad thing to have options). wonder if i just need to get a simple tube amp with limited options and stick with it then just simply play
You nailed it and I think we've all been there...struggling with tone instead of getting better at our craft!
And I think you make a great point in getting a simple tube amp with a couple of pedals. I personally prefer less options (a few really good ones as opposed to a ton that you have to go through)
Another great video, Jason, thanks. Funny because before watching this I spent 45 minutes trying to get the right tone for the Metallica low E/ A muted "chug", which I was never able to replicate. Sometimes the tone does make the song.
Tone can certainly give character to the songs. But many will obsess over it. And I've done the same. These days, I put more energy into the songwriting than the tone.
@@jasonstallworth You're obviously doing it right you're a heck of a guitarist and a great teacher. I'm just getting into intermediate stuff and have learned a lot here. I found that if I listen to the live version of the song you get a better feel for it, without the "studio magic" of layering, overdubs, and perfect tones.
The live version sounds different from, sometimes better than the studio version.
It’s crazy that you posted this video because I just started doing the double guitar style in my DAW audio recordings. Fell in love with that stereo sound. It really adds that extra pinch to the sound.
There's nothing like the sound of those 2 guitars hard-panned!
I like to use the Swedish death metal tone sometimes when I cant get the right tone I’m looking for because it is easy to set. Just crank all those knobs to max!
Dude, check out that link in the description to my tone guide blog post. It may not be the settings you want but it may shed some light and help you dial in something cool from there.
I’m a new guitarist trying to learn what tone really means and this is just fantastic. Great channel
Thank you! Be sure to see my tone guide post in the description of this video.
Thank you for this advice!
A lot struggle from this. I used to chase tone so much that it stopped me from just putting in time to practice and be more efficient.
Yeah man, chasing tone can really be time consuming and takes away from practice and writing songs
Dude! You totally solved my problem ever since I was 14 and Im 38 I was trying to sound like the whole band on one 🎸 right now Im running my old 100 watt bass amp with a mini tube screamer and mini chorus pedal and my Dimebag CFH wah I think I just need a EQ? I was thinking metal pedal or EQ and it's driving me crazy
Yeah man, that's something we've all struggled with at some point!
I spent a small fortune on pedals. Bought bias amp and bias fx.... I'll probably sell my pedals now. I don't play live and with the bias software and presonus I can get any tone I want, to an extent. The bias software does sound crap into an amp though.... Thin.
I’m a big fan of BIAS. What changed everything for me was when they added the Celestion speakers to their elite package. I only use that for the studio (writing ideas and videos).
@@jasonstallworth I think I watched a video of you choosing them the other day when making an amp to use in Bias FX.
I shall definitely have a look at the upgrade.
Cheers Jason.
Wow never really thought about that - that you’re trying to recreate a full production when chasing tone - as we never hear a raw guitar tone on records - saying that I’m glad about my influences pushing me to where my tone is now cos I’m really stoked with it 🔊🔊🔥🔥🤘🤘
Yeah, a lot of guitarists get frustrated over that. Of course, as you said, our influences do indeed push us towards a certain sound for ourselves.
Amazing Jason!!! That's true and sometimes we forgot this details. A single guitar tone is totally different to a full mix, and our mind sometimes is tricked. 💪😃
Yeah, it's easy for us to be tricked by all of that!
This makes perfect sense Jason. I often think about tone to because I like how my favorite guitar players play but yeah there's more to it than that even with all the pedals and amps you use. Very helpful video and info Jason thanks 👍
Yeah, it's easy to chase down other's tones without realizing everything that goes with it. I used to want to dial in the Puppets tone, and also bands like Scorpions, Queensryche, and pretty much all of the hair bands! I do remember the Rockman effects by Tom Scholz's company back in the day
I agree with you about tone chasing. I have seen playing guitar for about 4 years and at first I did try to sound like what I could hear while through my head phones. This did not work, so I quickly stopped that. I have fried to play other musicians music and got bored trying that too. I have different guitars for different kinds of music with different pedals for each guitar. I have a sound and I play what I feel at the time and all of my neighbours like it (not one complaint).
I think more musicians should try more to sound like themselves. When they do, they will be happier.
You sound like you Jason, and you sound great. Keep up the good work. Rock on 🤘🎸
You nailed it...musicians should definitely focus more on developing their own sound!
Great video and explanation Jason! I recently went through this myself as I have begun writing and recording recently with a friend who’s taking care of bass, drums and one guitar track where I’m doing a harmonizing guitar track. I was able to pretty quickly realize what sounds good in a mix vs standalone, or what I was previously used to. It’s now more fun to set out tone chasing with the goal of what sounds best in the mix, or a backing track. Oh, and stereo guitars all the way! Can’t wait to hear your next album! Cheers.
Awesome, yeah often times it’s not a major change from jamming to mixing but there are some subtle adjustments that have to be made in the mix.
Thank your for sharing your knowledge with those of us that are new to playing metal guitar and home set up. I bought a t shirt to support the channel and to show my appreciation. Bonus I also have an EVH 5150 6L6 double speaker cab 🤘.
I appreciate your support! Those amps are awesome!
Love the riff!! Sounds like something my music endevour as a single writer would put into my stuff. Just the tempo and heart you can feel put into that
🙏🏻🤘
Awesome video, so many need to hear this! Love hearing about your album updates!
Thank you for watching!
Nice video. I agree, it's not really easy to recreate tones from others. Especially when you factor in mixing and mastering. It is hard to resist trying though! Looking forward to the new album!
There are some songs I really like but don't care for the guitar tone so much. One example is Take This Life by In Flames. Not a big fan of that tone but love the song. Another is Deadsong by Before the Dawn. Not the greatest tone or production, but I've listened to the song countless times. The songwriting is a huge element for me more than tone.
I needed this so bad thank you
🙏 🤘
Thanks! Very informative. I realize that changing my guitar pickups won't make much of a difference. Because it's the amp that matters or recording from your computer matters.
Actually your pickups can make quite a difference. Some pickups have a tighter sound than others, some hotter, some with less output, more output, and so forth. That with the amp and everything else all works together.
@Bigboss92 it’s crazy, I actually prefer my Ibanez stock passive pickups through my amp over my guitars with actives.
yeah man nice work yet again man! ive got my home studio going good now my software is topnotch!
🤘
I personally don't chase the tone of others. But I do chase the tones I want to hear. Or maybe that's a misnomer for the sounds I'm looking for. I have "my" blues sound dialed. Still chasing the distorted/overdrive that chugs and screams the way I want it to.
Nothing like a solid blues tone! Check out the link to my tone guide...it's just a blog post I created with screenshots, images, and settings and hopefully that will help you some.
Great video, explains a lot of questions I had been wondering about.
Awesome to hear that🤘
This is so helpful! Also, I love the riff you're playing! I don't have any professional recording equipment, so I use a headset mic and plug the headset into my phone, which I use to record audio and video at the same time. I'm not the biggest fan of my current tone, whenever I'm not recording it sounds great but it sounds completely different on video. Anyways, the vid helps a lot and I can't wait to try out these tips!
It sounds like you've got a cool tone dialed in so now it's just a matter of getting a computer, DAW (recording software), and interface. I have a blog post showing the minimal stuff you need here: www.jasonstallworth.com/home-recording-studio-guide/
@@jasonstallworth I'll be sure to look into it, thanks!
Your videos are so informative and entertaining. Great tips and tricks. 👍👍👍
Thank you dude 🤘
I literally wasted years chasing the tone I thought I wanted before switching directions and deciding I liked old Crate and Ampeg solid-states.
Then I wasted more time trying to find the Ampeg until someone made an amp-in-a-box pedal based on it.
And I will likely end up wasting more time tracking down a real VH-140C once gear insecurity sets back in.
Dude, I had an old Crate stack back in the day (solid state, but don't recall the model). I played that on stage several times with the old Digitech RP10. Before that I had a Peavey Bandit 212 and that was a little beast!
@@jasonstallworth
I love my GX, it'll probably be the best $30 I've ever spent until the day I pass. It'll definitely be the best $30 I ever spent on music gear until the day I pass.
Bandits are pretty great too, I'd love to have one in 'amp-in-a-box' form.
Time to check Master Effects, he might make one.
I appreciate all of your insight, Jason. I just discovered you recently, and I love your videos.
Dude, thank you for being a part of my channel 🤘
Perfect timing… I was just shopping for a tube amp (currently just use a modeling amp) to get better tone… maybe I’ll save my money (and time) and just focus on my playing and maybe learning the “studio” side of things.
I wasted YEARS using crap amps and modelling.. find a used affordable all tube amp and you will be blown away. it will completely change how you play and make you want learn and branch out into new territory. I regret not buying one years ago.
Definitely dig into the studio...there's a lot of helpful things you'll learn with that than with messing with tones. For amps, I do like my EVH 5150 III but there are other good options out there.
Modeling amps aren't bad either. But it's also a rabbit hole of endless tones, and that can steal time from you!
Yeah, those old Peavey 5150s or 6505 combos...you can find those used for a decent price
I know you don't need it since you got the real thing but, did you try Audio Assault's Peavey ampsim? I use very often (because you do lol) and I quite like it.
Maybe later I'll post some preset using the parameter settings you gave in your pdf.
I haven't tried or even heard of that. Positive Grid's BIAS has been my go-to for sims and I really only use those for ideas, and when I need to get a quick video out.
3rd recording sounded great
🙏🤘
Great stuff! Thank you.
🤘
Surely distortion is heavily compressed anyway? Mind you I am using the amp modeller output and not a mic on my amp.
Distortion is very much compressed but many guitarists recording with an amp will actually back off of the gain so that they get more clarity of more 'feel' to the amp when playing. And with tube amps, the more you crank the volume, the less gain you'll need.
You can pan, 'verb, compress, whatever you'd like to a crummy tone and it's just a panned, 'verbed, and compressed crummy tone. We would spend hours dialing up amps in the studio so as not to add anything after the fact. If you are subtracting more than a db on anything you tracked it wrong or are using the wrong mic. Doubling guitars using the same mic and gear just adds frequency buildup and will cause massive issues during a mix. This is a classic example of "we'll fix it in the mix"...... completely the wrong way to go. Track it properly and a mix just falls into place. If what you hear through the monitors isn't what you are hearing in the room than you've still got work to do. The object is to CAPTURE music not CREATE it after the fact. This is why pretty much every modern metal record sounds the same and boring.
I'm definitely with you on the NOT 'fixing it in the mix' approach. But yu can have an amazing recorded tone yet often won't find until later that those tracks may need a few adjustments once you start adding in the other instruments and elements.
And there's also the post-processing and mastering that happens that may not be specific to the guitars but to other instruments, and the overall project, which inadvertently changes what you initially hear, tone-wise.
In other words, you could record the 'perfect' guitar tone and track, make no changes, yet there are many other elements to consider (vocals, other instruments, adjusting frequencies that may be clashing, which you often won't discover until you get to that point in the project).
Also, I don't double guitars, per se. I actually record that 2nd track. And it's not so much to beef up the sound; it's more to add a more lively feel to the song. There will be those little nuances between the 2 guitars that really bring the mix to life, IMO.
All that said, that's really not what the video was about, although I expected many comments, and thank you for this one. These are great things to point out.
But the point of this was to stop chasing the 'end result' (aka full mixed sound) as many do.
This is why I went through the many things that happen after-the-fact. If you're trying to create a tone based on a song or album, you're not creating that tone. You're trying to replicate what you hear after much has happened beyond recording that single guitar track.
Now, and I think you'll agree here, that doesn't give you a pass to throw down a crappy tone. And I'm hoping that the tone guide I provide in the description helps some folks.
Hopefully that adds some clarity.
@@jasonstallworth I guess you just have different approach than the producers and engineers I've worked with. They tended to have everything mapped out before any tape started rolling. Preproduction is a lost art. Yes, there are happy accidents along the way but they were never caught off guard by clashing frequencies. They knew beforehand where everything needed to live. Again...if your final product sounds substantially different than what was originally tracked then you've done something wrong. The mix should magnify and highlight your work not be the work. My opinion of course but also my experience in professional recording situations as a guitar tech. If your way works for you that's all that matters. You may find you mixes to be more open less cloudy and overall cleaner if you do the math beforehand.
@@craigpoole2602 I’m definitely with you on doing the due diligence on the pre-work.
And you’re right, there really shouldn’t be a night-to-day difference from beginning to end.
But when I talked about post-production, I’m not suggesting that there are massive changes. It things are that off, then you need to go back to the drawing board, so to speak.
More so, these are subtle adjustments that may be made here and there. I don’t know any producers or sound engineers that don’t make those subtle adjustments.
I’ll dig a little deeper into this in a later video. I’m getting ready to step into Morrisound studio soon for the mixing and mastering of a new album coming up from the band Siren.
(This is the studio that produced and recorded many of the metal bands back in the 80s when Brandon, FL was considered the metal capital of the world - so I’m really anxious to see some behind the scenes).
as always your videos are educational, seeing you added drums last I have a question. when you are writing the music, the riffs do you do it with a drum track or just whats in your head then have the drummer play to match your rhythm and then does that lead to changes in the riffs and tempo? often when i like a riff but record it and listen back it doesnt sound as good as it does when i play it
I always record those initial riffs to a drum loop that I pull in, which helps keep timing better than a click track.
And that's a good question because, yes I often may change things up a little after getting the real drums back if I feel that I can play something that fit better. And that's why I wait to record my final guitars until after the real drums have been done (I'm actually going through that now)
Perfection 💙💙👍👍
🤘
I dont really chase artists tones, I basically am just trying to get the right distortion settings for EMG pickup, I've been gain staging and rolling down the distortion on the amp and pedal, but can never get it to sound as punchy, when I roll down the distortion .
Dude, it's funny you mention this. In the video, I'm using a guitar with passive pickups. I re-recorded some tracks with my 7 string, which has EMG 707s and wasn't as impressed.
One thing you may want to try if you haven't already is booting the mids a little to 6-7 (I used to cut mine for that Metallica tone but sometimes boosting instead can give you a cool sound).
Also, that punchiness will and should come more from the bass guitar track, IMO.
Try an EQ to shape your tone before the amp.
@@mrunconventional For me, using an EQ is more about making sure certain frequencies aren’t clashing with the other instruments and vocals, and you’re not really going to know that until you get into the final mixing process.
In a day and age when isolated tracks are available for almost any album imaginable, your argument no longer holds the same weight.
In addition, I find that when I hear a guitar tone in the mix, to me it sounds just like the isolated guitar track. Maybe I am just really good at picking out the individual instruments, but I also think when it comes to guitar tones, it's really all about the midrange and the treble, which do not get masked by other instruments to a significant degree, especially not the midrange. Personally, I find the "everything sounds different in a mix" argument very weak.
Lastly, we only study and aim to imitate exceptionally great guitar tones that are worth a study because they got certain things right. For example, I find the tone on the Piece of Mind album absolutely stellar, as I do the whole production on the album. To date, I have not heard a better sounding British metal album, which makes Piece of Mind worth studying even almost 40 years after its release, as it is an album that sets the gold standard for metal production. In terms of guitar tone, there's stuff that Dave regularly did way back then that is a mystery to me even today. For example, in his harmony on "The Trooper," his guitar tone sounds very round and full. It s not clear how he achieved this, whether it was via EQ on the amp, or the MXR 10-band EQ he used in his signal chain, or by backing off the Tone knob on the guitar, or some combination of the three. I have tried all the aforementioned, but have not been able to replicate the result without losing presence. That is the sort of stuff that motivates us to study and imitate guitar tones-so we can get better at basic aspects of guitar tone and improve our productions. You have to learn the basic tricks of the trade before you can be in the same league of guitar tones.
By the way, I was very intrigued that you used a compressor on a distorted part to even out the dynamics. I recently started dabbling into this, but ran into issues such as pumping when I really tried to grab the transients and even out tracks. It would be really helpful if you could do a tutorial showing your compression techniques and demonstrating what is achievable.
I appreciate your feedback and opinions here. But let's first clarify something: There's no argument being made.
This is the problem with the online world. Everyone needs to argue and their view is right, or they need to prove someone else is wrong, yada, yada, and so forth.
Although there are plenty of channels that will eat that up - be assured that this isn't one of them. Moving forward...
This is all just based on my personal experience and experience I've had with been shown through other working musicians out there. Nothing more, nothing less.
And I often find that as I discover something, I may discover something else later that contradicts what I thought was true or best.
So talking about compression. I recently stopped using that (after this video was made) on my guitar tracks.
However, if you go into any pro studio (I've been in a few in my area, like Morrisound and All Access Recording, both awesome places), you will find that certain elements are used in the mix and especially during the mastering process.
How much does that impact the guitar tone? It sounds like you have a great ear for that so I'll leave that one in your court.
But more importantly than all of that, the core message of this video was to not allow yourself to get so caught up in tone chasing that you don't get any real work done. There's a point where you'll drive yourself mad to the point where you don't release the product.
with all of my guitars I like or dislike the tone I get on a daily basis and play the one that sounds best that day
Yeah man, I think we all go through that. Some days I love my 7 string but other days I don't care for it and will pick up my Ibanez RG 6 string.
Like I told my friend - First: backoff your gain about 70% and break off the knob.
Yeah, anymore than that just gets muddy on most high gain amps
Excuse me sir....you're video is breaking up....All I heard was s....chase tone. Copy that sir. Continuing mission. I have Dark Funeral's tone in my sights approximately 2 kilometers away at the Guitar Center to my south. I'll contact command after I've acquired the new gear. Bravo-6 going dark.
😅🤘 Dark Funeral has a cool tone, for sure!
compressor on guitar tracks is a BIG no no. your amp is actually a compressor. distortion is compression by default. if you have too many peaks in your guitar recording, then your amp isn’t dialed in correctly.
@Bigboss92 i think whai pointed out destroys his entire argument. “don’t chase tone cause im gonna kill it with a compressor later”
I'm sure there are folks that don't use a compressor but most of the working guitarists I've known over the years do either use it with their amp or the sound engineer will add it to the track, and/or overall mix (remember, much goes on in the studio after the fact, which is why I shared that as part of the post-processing).
A great example is you may dial in a killer tone, record it, and it sounds phenomenal. But when you start adding in the other instruments and such, this is when you find out what's needed to make the tracks a bit tighter.
So it's not so much that you're going crazy over your tone, and yes, you want to have the best tone possible from the source, but the mixing/mastering and all that takes place after the fact is another world.
All that said, compressed guitar tracks or not, many several elements may be used in the mastering that will act as a compressor. Again, this is all after the fact.
To clarify, there's no argument here. And compression doesn't necessarily 'kill' the tone. This may (or may not) be part of the post-processing process (I explained this in my response to your first comment, which hopefully makes more sense).
Obviously if you overdo compression, then yes, you'll do much more harm than good.
But I think we're getting off of the point of the video, which was don't obsess over tone or try to mimic someone else's because there are many other dynamics involved (not just compression, and even if a compressor isn't used, those other dynamics are still relevant).
@@jasonstallworth thank you for clarification 👌
@@genghisghost you’re welcome, brother. I learn new stuff everyday!
And I actually like the guitars better with no compression. But it’s when everything else was added that I found I needed to tame those tracks just a little, and sometimes you can do that with subtle post EQ adjustments.
I’ll probably have to make more adjustments once I record the vocals. Part of it is making sure certain frequencies don’t clash (this is why I’m hiring help…too much for me to handle if I really wanna do it right!)
this is why playing with a band is more fun
Man, it is absolutely more fun! I play 2-3 solo gigs a week and though it's cool, I often miss playing with a band.
This is the video my wallet needed to watch.
🙏 🤘
I think guitar tones or cool, but it's cool just to do your own thing and have a good time.
That's what this video is all about🤘
Those studio monitors are horrible man. You need to upgrade those.
Sorry you don’t like them. Mine work just fine