Why Ad Udyr Will Always Be Worse Than Ap Udyr ...
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New drinking game unlocked = do a shot every time I say the word AD Udyr :) ! (don't actually do that lol)
I've been saying this since the rework about his q damage. I hate that the on hit is negligible and you only rely on it to one shot or die. I've been wanting the % damaged lowered and on hit up.
Also, one thing that ww could use is some type of defensive stat. My suggestions are to either give ww %damage reduction or armor/mr bonus. You are a turtle with no shell atm with adyr.
As for E, I always wanted a longer stun. TF had 2 second point and click ranged stun on low cd... and udyr has this garbage that you can't even reliably get 2 autos off. Make the stun scale of AD SLIGHTLY with least 1.5 second max at a high ad build.
RR needs the slow scaling. 100% agree with that.
I disagree. I remember the frustration of playing pre-rework AD Udyr. Always chasing and getting baited .Noone would stand still and take multiple dots. You could only manage a stun, DOT + auto before they hit you with the tiniest slow or dash and had to chase them again, and just when you're about to catchup again, they flash!
If he gets damage reduction on w, then he must lose the shielding or heal.
Udyr stun duration is balanced(since you can offload your damage in 2 hits), only problem is they recently removed the tenacity rune, so you feel every stun. They only need to nerf TF stun duration
Post rework Udyr I played ADyr for months on end till I realized AP is just OBJECTIVELY better. Teamfighting. Dueling. Wave clear. Even taking taking turrets is better on AP because turrets take more magic then physical
been saying this for ever. udyrs optimal build is one AP item one AD item and others full tank. Ive been going Liandrys and Sundered Sky all season the build is fantastic
Liandries with bloodmail + tank items seems interesting. Bloodmail would give 70+ ad lategame, more when ur low health
do you put points in both Q and R?
@@wanger382want to know as well, r is my guess
Shojin liandries?
Rift maker bloodmail?
@@wanger382 3 points R 3 Q and 3 W then max R and W leave 3 points in Q for the rest of the game. Dark seal first B then go Sunder Sky then liandrys then jaksho most games.
Champion one tricks have the best insights on how to bring quality of life to these champions. Too many champions get invented and then discarded, sure they bring out a rework once in a couple of years but it sucks that a rework as a result of outcry is needed. He needs more love.
Udyr is in a good spot overall bout riot dropped alot of potential for his kit by making the AD playstyle so 1 dimensional
Finally someone puts this into words. AD do deals a lot of damage but it's never enough. AP is way more fun for me because you can space the enemy with your R and have better teamfight, not to mention you can be so annoying pushing the map and then escaping with your slow and heath pool + an insane shield and healing. But going full ad/leth with udyr is fun too.
ad deals more than enough dmg herb says this too, he lacks utility not dmg.
@@meowmeowmewo-us2vv not my point but ok
@@juanfisi you legit wrote, ad does alot of dmg, but never enough. cluegi
@@meowmeowmewo-us2vv Because its never enough, meaning damage ALONE doesn't cut it. Read between lines.
One thing you didn't mention is on W the 2 hit after entering the stance scales on AP but only gives you Lifesteal while in the stance (works off AD).
E attack animation isn't bugged. It is a leap/dash airborn. That is why it has a small pause at the end of the animation. Yasuo can also Ult you if you try to E him.
Q also has a problem of getting no benifit to more ranks because it doesn't change the empowered damage. It will only increase the on hit damage that is mostly worthless.
i dont know exactly what u are reffering to by the W AAs. Well here is the thing and probably the main reason why I can confirm the E being buggy beyond riot ray and other rioters already confirming it ... old udyrs E functioned identically to new E it had the leap it had the windup everything was the same basically and u didnt hv any of these issues dw i hv done my research! And yeah the last part is true however i think dmg wise ad udyr is in somewhat of a goldielocks zone
I enjoy the dichotomy between ad and ap. If enemy team had 4-5 squishies, building kraken deadmans and force of nature makes you a menace.
If its 3-4 bruiser/tanks, liandries phoenix build is gg as well. So... i like both a lot. I think ad is in a good spot, i never want to empower anything except for q and e. R is simply for the slow so i can smack them with q.
All your points here are valid though.
I have played close to 1500 games of udyr since his rework. 80% of those games i have built ap (for the reasons stated in video). The ONLY time i really ever build ad on udyr is if im going against a yi, viego, (squishy hypercarry jg ), etc. that i must one shot as you cant play ap udyr into Yi (just doesnt work).
and thats the smart thing to do
ADyr deals has damage while ApDyr has consistent in my opinion
Here are the changes I would make.
Q buff on hit damage.
W change to Omnivamp instead of lifesteal.
E add tenacity while in the stance
R is fine BUT I would add faster movement speed to the homing that scales based on your movement speed
AD and AP ratios on all skills. Now it doesn't matter what build path you take all your skills will still function. This would also open up a build for hybrid udyr.
mhhhm I agree with Q buffs if we nerf max hp dmg / the W changes wouldnt rlly matter because its bound to 2 autos so most of ur healing would still work very similar to lifesteal and it would benefit phoenix since it deals alot of ability dmg / E imo giving power budget to tenacity isnt rlly ideal and again it would equally both phoenix / R is just way to worthless on AD builds especially awaken
great video
ty sir
This analysis is good, but I think under values one element.
Udyr is an auto attack champion. His abilities rely on AA to function - all abilities have an empowered auto attack component, and his passive gives AS and needs AA for CD reset.
Thus, unlike a true AP mage, this means Udyr will always get value out of AD he builds.
I think the biggest change that cemented AP as better performing is Fated ashes, which you call out. It is a great farming component and smooths the curve into the mid game.
Without fated ashes I think AP suffers a lot in the early game.
Personally I still love hybrid, ranking R early while building an AD components means you can function in both key roles - duelist/picker with QQ or team fight peeler with R.
Since we typically build 2 damage item into tank, Shojin or TF into Liandry lets us continue to fill both those roles throughout the game. You can assassinate or shred tanks with QQ or throw RR in team fight and let Liandry burn.
Also, would like to see you try Roach and analyze. The hydra interaction with WW is bonkers tech
well I brought this point up in the video tho. The funny thing is AP udyr simply doesnt hv to auto attack as much while ad udyr only exists when he autos which is actually a curse and not a blessing tbh but therefor his autos need to be stronger. Yes ad increases ur auto attack dmg but just because ad udyr has to auto alot doesnt mean that he has access to auto attack on targets that he wants to auto (full melee semi squishy champion) so in essence what u say makes sense on paper but in reality it doesnt rlly play out this way. Also another thing we can consider in this argument is that every other ad juggernaut works exactly the same way but they still get huge ad ratios (yes ad udyr autos more but that is his means to even use his kit) throughout their kit despite their autos being juiced up. Last point here because i could talk bout this for ever: AD udyrs issues isnt dmg its clearly utility and making use of his kit beyond 2 big ad autos and thats what i addressed in my video.
Maybe you test. Shojin steraks riftmaker boots jaksho. Last one Situational. More dmg go liandries, or titanic . Play vs heavy ad go frozen heart or vs heacy crit randuins vs lot of Range go deadmans or for More sustain unending dispair. Vs heavy ap go kaenic or force of nature or for even more sustain sprit Visage. Its a lot of fun
this is less bout items and more bout his kit
what about attack speed affecting the E stun animation, right now it is extremely silly
again i assume that udyrs E stun animation is coded as some weird ability animation and thats why it feels so off and sluggish so no i think attack speed doesnt do too much
So u would recoomend to go ap udyr for someone who is packung udyr up?
Ad udyr is SUPER fun if you're able to get a decent lead, but ap udyr is gonna give you much better, consistent results. If you're picking him up to play in ranked, so is gonna be the way to go
@@krazyking12345 thank u brother
I would learn both i mean udyr isnt a 1 dimensional champ and u should know how to at least play both basic playstyles imo
Actually there the hyperbird build i use which riftmaker manamune and liandries the damge amplifier works so well with q and the omnivamp keeps u alive
i hv not heard bout this build
I would do anything to get back old udyr and the old SG Udyr skin......
am happy w the rework but the new sgu isnt my cup of tea either
I think these are fine suggestions, but this would be turning Udyr more into a bruiser instead of being an AP tank. It could really sway his identity and change him quite a bit.
i used to love this champion, now i cant play it at the same level, i know sounds stupid but i find udyr hard now and his speed now is shit, i prefer the old udyr a lot more
BRO as a main udyr player sinsce season 4 ,i really enjoy playing ad udyr but really miss my old udyr this one is pretty dogshit ad scale are meh , I don't really now why q have to do ap damage, why you cant no one shoots people like assassins , why your passive have that long cd we supposed to be and early champion, how about e stun animation why just remove that or make it scale with atc speed, everything in udyr kits come with a conditional while other champions can do 3 or 4 thing in one abilities, why we are a melee champion that have 3 abilities ??? why cant we max all our abilities in every match, we do no have any ad scaling , movement speed is key or lose course the is just a low movement speed that goes down quick man I really miss the older udyr . even data that time it feel better play ad
we need oldyr 😭
the dots ;(
@@hyperherbtv6306 🐯🐢🐻🐦🔥
@@hyperherbtv6306 DOUBLE DOT!!
AD udyr's awakened W is understated? up to 40% lifesteal is understated?
Yeah, I mean if you awaken w you lose like 60% of your damage on ad udyr. It's just a panic button at best. Also you'll have less resists, so that wayyyyyy less effective hp than ap udyr, and the shield itself is real flimsy
again if u map it out it is. U get 40% life steal on 2 autos -> 2 autos u spend not using ur AD scaling in Q unlike other champs like lets say darius that heal and deal dmg at the same time -> life steal is past armor meaning if i wanna lifesteal off a tanky melee champion (which is most likely the case because udyr doesnt get to backline that easily) i heal way less -> the shield is extremely low on AD udyr the / the on hit healing is extremely low on ad udyr / the regen is low on Ad udyr -> because all these spells are balanced around u making use of the AP scalings so yes AD udyrs W balance lever is extremely understatted
e stun is a micro dash
yes and so was oldyrs E it worked identically to new E its an animation issue riot has confirmed it already they just dont know how to work it
all good but ur proposal for W is bad, he will be broken and will be abused at the very least in top and splitting
So u are saying that instead of playing the exact same reason they play ap udyr top for (unkillable laning phase because w huge shield, huge on hit healing and huge regen) they would rather play AD udyr top with lifesteal that needs to build ad items in order to make use of the lifesteal therefor be squishier in lane while also loosing the shield bash for trading, the slow approach auto for grasp, the meat shield factor outside of the lane ? I highly doubt this would be the case the only thing that could happen is that AD udyr is being flex picked into certain match ups top but even then riot can always just hv a minion % lever if lifesteal becomes an issue (it wouldnt tho compared to ap tank top)
@@hyperherbtv6306 yeah but when we talk about ad we are talking about your own auto deals high dmg even if ur in ur W phase so we cant just compare it with ap and also the thin shield with ad won't be a problem when u can beat ur enemy "mostly melee champions" while healing with ur lifesteal, they are doing it now with ravenous so imagine when u make it better, i think ad udyr is in good spot even if ap is better
So what about the fact that when you're investing into AD/auto attacks, you also get a LOT more passive procs. Seems like you're completely forgetting that part of the passive. More passive procs = more cc burned with awaken E, more auto attacks pulled off. It is not as black/white as you make it out to be in my opinion
I dont think i make it very black and white (i brought up positives and negatives regarding both playstyles) at all but am just pointing out that AD udyr is weaker by design which is the general consensus and am just explaining it in my words. What am saying is that u hv to auto attack more to even have kit that doesnt mean that AD udyr attacks more it just means u hv to auto in order to use ur kit. Yes we get range on Q yes we get as on Q which helps auto attacking and non of my sugested changes go against the auto attack its more doubling down on it with the W. Thanks for the feedback tho
@@hyperherbtv6306 Yeah i was not trying to shit on it. It just sounded like: Pheonix only playstyle, AD BAD
When in reality, Ad posses so many strong sides, which is also why it is easier to carry because you have that kind of agency to get shit done urself.
But yes i agree, in a 5v5 team both communicating teams. Pheonix is strictly better.
But so many variables makes ad perfectly viable a long way in soloqueue.
Atleast thats my opinion
@@2_Stepper yeah i get it its mainly a design perspective i hv climbed to 300LP on euw myself w adyr only but that doesnt make the playstyle well designed ygwim
@@hyperherbtv6306 Yeah its not well designed. But perfectly viable to a certain extent, i would even go as far saying below gold Ad is superior than Ap. Maybe even Below emerald
@@2_StepperIve been playing udyr since season 8, played ad udyr for years, way better in low elo imo, but as soon as I hit emerald it was just too coinflip, and players are better at not getting caught out. Swapped to AP udyr and hit diamond in two splits
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