Why the DTM finale was a complete JOKE
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- čas přidán 18. 10. 2021
- Now that we've had a week to digest, reflect and compartmentalize everything that happened in the DTM finale, it seems the right time to look back and see why this was still one of the worst conclusions to a championship in motor racing history...
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#DTM #Lawson #LiamLawson - Sport
This was the first season I followed DTM, largely because Albon and Lawson were in it. I didn't catch all the races but I liked what I saw. After that final weekend, I don't think I'll bother with it next year.
Exacly the same here...
Same
same here
Not same.
This is exactly why this weekend was such crap. A lot of new fans will never bother watching again which is harmful for the series and for the motorsport community.
I think DTM lost ALOT of potential fans with this joke of a championship ending. I think many people (including myself) were watching DTM for the first time w Albono and Lawson racing in it, and it seemed very excited. But if kamikazing your championship rival is allowed AND half the grid aren't allowed to fight each other, this championship is decided before it even starts. It's a real shame.
BTCC 1992 championship finale, go watch that, it's honestly a lot dirtier then this
you should follow DTM trophy, that's really enjoyable to watch,and the finale of this season was great.
@@madhukarjonathanminj2772 Yeah, might do that next season, never really got into GT4
its almost like large portions of the f1 grid arent allowed to fight each other if championships are on the line, do you think gasly would be allowed to fight max if max was looking at a drivers title? do you think the alfas or haas' would hold up the ferraris in the last race? no, of course not.
@@zTeaTheCoffee yeah it could happen at some point this year(if somehow AT gets in front of RB) but at the very least mercedes don’t make up more than half the field in f1 like dtm does. And I think manufacturers are not that influential in f1, I can’t see mclaren letting mercedes pass if they’re in the lead, well at least not yet.
I'm pretty sure the biggest losers in this situation is the DTM championship itself. After this debacle I don't think very many (new) fans are going to bother with the championship again.
Idk, if more races are as physical as this, I'll definitely be watching
@@CAPDude44 just watch stadium truck racing, autocross or rallycross if you like "bumpercar racing" like this bs... k.vdl did the "torpedo" twice with basicly no penalty...
@@CAPDude44 Go watch NASCAR or demo derby than. The kind of junk happening in this race wasn't "racing", it doesn't take skill to just ram in to your opponents or shove them in to walls.
Are you kidding? I started to follow DTM just because of this. As a neutral spectator this drama is what I need 😂
@@pdxholmes it certainly adds drama and entertainment
In Germany we often say: Wenn 2 sich streiten, freut sich der 3te. (When 2 guys fight/argue, the 3rd one is happy)
Genau so ging es halt…..
We have a similar saying where I'm from when two people are arguing/fighting the third one is winning/profiting
The first thing i thought after the race:
its like Kimi's championship in 2007
In dutch its 2 dogs fighting over a bone
Imagine this happening in F1, the world would be on fire
2019 Canadian GP says hello
Welcome to ww3 people
It kinda was after silverstone
Imagine if social media was around in 1994 and 1997.
@@a7G-82r you can leave out the kinda.
while F1 struggles with often too much policing, this is a case of too little policing
Yeah, I swear the racing shown reminded me of NASCAR.
Facts. F1 has become a joke
@@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006 At least NASCAR, everyone is on an even field. No manufacturer influence, and if someone drives dirty, karma is legalized.
@@herewegoagain7403 true
@@herewegoagain7403 and the good ol act of revenge comes into play
yellow line rule is stupid though
When even the series director says that race "damaged" DTM you know it went off the rails.
well too bad.
because at this point, DTM is already dead and now, it's just a hollow corpse of a motorsport trying to stay relevant, but it fucks it up so hard in the end that it ruins everything this motorsport has made and built up before.
I wonder why it took his ass so long to respond... Waiting for them check$ from Mercedes to clear? 🤔
@@mr.3733 btw, DTM boss Berger is the uncle of Lucas Auer (Merc driver, he let Götz through) and also his mentor and brought him into DTM. Thats another interesting detail
As a South African, I was gutted for Lawson and really wanted him to win, definitely the better attitude and driver
Same here, I may support my fellow South Africans but I have the ability to tell when my compatriots have messed up.
Would've loved to see a Ferrari win the DTM and shove it into the mercs faces
@Rachel Wood KVDL did not intentionally hit Lawson
Exactly the same. As a South African supporting Lawson. That van linde doos ruined it
this is the equivelant of mazepin taking out verstappen and hamilton at abu dhabi and somehow bottas winning the title
*sounds somewhere down the track of Kimi yelling at his engineers*
You read the script huh?
Tbh I'm all for Bottas winning the title 😅
Bottas deserves a title for all the wingman work he done for Hamilton.
It could happen if hamilton and verstappen failed to finish the remaining races then bottas wins all of them lol
He cut through the corner and took out two drivers on turn 1. That's shitty driving from VDL.
The Mercs holding back and even crashing out a rival car is asshole-ish at least.
I bet they thought they had no choice. They had to stop Cassidy at all cost or else Lawson would win the championship, because Cassidy is that damn fast. He's the most dangerous man to Goetz's title bid at that moment.
Cassidy is a Super GT and Super Formula champion. That talks a lot.
@@adityairawan1843 if you can't win on merit, you didn't win. If you have to crash out your opponents or their teammates to secure a victory in the last race, you aren't the best driver. Yes, this mentality extends to Senna and Michael.
People come to Max in Monza as an example of a "tactical crash", but that's just flat WRONG, van DER linde in this race WILL BECOME the poster child of a tactical crash. Gone wrong at least.
@@BenKuyt64 Has always happened in Motorsport. Even back in the 60s. For example the 1964 Mexican GP, where Lorenzo Bandini took out Graham Hill to help Surtees win the 1964 title. Its bad, but it has always been part of the sport. Its just the dirty side of Motorsport
@@FADHsquared You new or something Schumi is poster child for tactical crashes gone wrong just ask villenueve
The real DTM started dying when Mercedes left. GT3 is just the nail in the coffin. There are other, better GT3 series out there, where drivers pay less in entry fees and have more driving time. And they also have much more prestigious races like the Spa 24h and Nurburgring 24h. ADAC GT Masters and GT World Challenge, (SRO in general), offer better sprint racing for lower fees at better tracks, with no dumb regulatory bullshit from the ITR. Time to stick a fork in this thing, it's clearly done.
DTM has still a higher media reach than comparable GT series, especially the ADAC GT Masters. The fact that it'll move to Pro7 next season will most likely only strengthen that position. Yeah, some fans are yelling about boycotts now and whatnot; but frankly, that's as likely to have an impact as 1994 (or pick any of the numerous other scandals) had one on F1.
but you can still often see some shady tactis by teams like Audi WRT
I very much agree, the 2019 season, when Merc left and they brought in the new engines was really quite disappointing. Especially the aston martin cars which never finished a race
dude, GT world challenge is literally now the de-facto premier GT3 racing league lol
@@kenchen704 Why even call it DTM anymore? Why not just call it the German GT3 Championship?
It should be added that the race director of DTM this year is now moving to F1 next year as Michael Masi's deputy. On the plus side, at least his place will be filled by Scott Elkin of FE and Extreme E.
the finale was a yoke as Alonso would say
GP2 engine! ;)
And it doesn't help when the driver involved in that "incident" was giving a "non-apology" (played victim because of the "troll", really?)
Ha
Karma
can someone please explain me what all this fuss is about? I kind of didn't get it.
The 2 guys fighting for the title knocked themselves out of the race (because of their own stupidity - too bad for them), and people with the same car brand let the 3rd title contender go for the win (what did you expect? They should crash into him as well?)... Some dumb guys screwing themselves in one side, the other did what was expected of him. The guy shouldn't be driving for Merc? If Merc is half the grid, and they have a good car... What are the odd any of those cars would end up fighting for the title?
Is that it? Did I miss something?
I've been waiting for this video since the second the DTM race ended
Edit: I know that any manufacturer would have done the same in that position, but there are still at least three times as many Mercedes as there are Ferraris on the grid
It was inevitable and josh couldn’t escape that fact
the main reason I stopped watching dtm before this season was exactly this, all mercs drove for merc, all audis drove for audi and all bmws raced for bmw even thought they were shown as different teams, you had in audi team abt, phoenix and other, but if one driver of each team was leading the championship every other team opened the path for that driver.
I can accept the second driver on a given team letting their teammate through for better points in the driver's championship, but doing so for (what should be) a completely separate team's driver is rage-inducing.
Manufacter orders should be band. This is ugly. Even worse than jerez 97 adeide 94 with suzuka 90 combined.
The team orders aren't even what bothers me, it's the fact they ended up putting the Ferrari into the wall that bothers me.
The bad thing: Liam won't race another year in DTM. The good thing (fingers crossed). Helmut Marko seems to have an interest in elevating Liam into F1 (most likely we will see him do Friday pracxtice sessions next year in F1) And a funny side note: Götz won several races in the DTM but none on his own merit. Take a look at the Norisring: he won the frist race because VDL pushed Liam wide. The second race Götz only won because the Merc who weren't even teammates waved him past. And his attitude after sunday was the worst. He said "the others don't deserve the title" Show a bit of humility here dude. and one more thing that enraged a lot of fans: the penalties that were handed to VDL were a "yoke" to quote Alonso: 5 seconds for pushing two drivers to the bottom of the field and even damaging one car so heavily it was basically undriveable? Good thing Liam never even thought about having a "braking mistake" when Götz came near him every once in a while.
which VDL KVL or SVL?
@@lisaruhm6681 KVL. Sorry I only had one VDL in my mind
When things were at their very worst:
2 Suns, Cross in the sky, 2 comets will collide = don`t be afraid - repent, accept Lord`s Hand of Mercy.
Scientists will say it was a global illusion.
Beware - Jesus will never walk in flesh again.
After WW3 - rise of the “ man of peace“ from the East = Antichrist - the most powerful, popular, charismatic and influential leader of all time. Many miracles will be attributed to him. He will imitate Jesus in every conceivable way.
Don`t trust „pope“ Francis = the False Prophet
- will seem to rise from the dead
- will unite all Christian Churches and all Religions as one.
One World Religion = the seat of the Antichrist.
Benedict XVI is the last true pope - will be accused of a crime of which he is totally innocent.
"Many events, including ecological upheavals, wars, the schism in My Church on Earth, the dictatorships in each of your nations - bound as one, at its very core - will all take place at the same time."
"Arab uprising will spark global unrest - Italy will trigger fall out"
The Book of Truth
@@johnfran3218 no
I don't think the result of Van der Linde's divebomb even need to be taken into account at all. The act itself was so outside the lines, so egregious, and so flipping dirty that it is, in my opinion, a banhammer worthy offense. That was not a racing move gone wrong like Lewis v Max in Silverstone and Monza. It was a grade A hitjob.
Can I interject and say the DTM Trophy CZcams coverage is brilliant. GT4 and the commentator interacts with YT comments. Watch it next season
Very much agree. So enjoyable and provided fair and fun racing.
10/10, would watch it again next season.
I think people were more angry at KVDL because Sunday wasn’t even the first time during the weekend. His race craft is fucking shocking, littered with divebombs and ludicrous defensive moves that would not fly in another form of racing, especially open wheel categories.
At the 2nd race, it looks like he went off the track to brake in a straight line. Straight towards Lawson.
Hopefully Verstappen or Hamilton don't do that
Here's my unbiased opinion on Van de Linde as a South African, I totally agree that he's been driving like a NASCAR maniac with his super aggressive divebombs. Manoeuvres like that could cost him his seat.
He does it because DTM will let him get away with it. It's not a great look, but all the blame roads seem to lead back to the stewards.
@@thembanjoko2844 won't. In GT you definitely can do some ludicrous things as they're pretty sturdy machines. Kelvin is on the agressive side for GT drivers still though. But still, he performs. For years now. And it's why Audi won't drop him.
Deutsche - only 50% German tracks, only 50% German brands
Tourenwagen - GT cars, not touring cars
Masters - This crap…
Ferrari and mclaren are the only non-german owned brands.
@@thenaysmith6181 Lamborghini drove a couple of cars the entire season..
@@MrSlubbo yeah, but they belong to Volkswagen, which is a german company
YOUR ON DISCORD, IK YOU
@@curious5289 👀
Great video, but you got one thing wrong. These mercs werent in a team, there were no TEAM orders, but MANUFACTURER orders. This just means, as others have already stated, that the Championship is more or less decided on paper which, I think, is actually very much worse than the moves KvdL made. This is what kills DTM.
Why was Liam competing on DTM? I know this comment is comes a year too late but at the time of this race he was also competing on F2 so why compete in a Touring car? Does that help him in get better ina Formula car or is it because of the money?
@@user-el3gn5yl2wi believe from my memory that he already had superlicense and everything etc, its just that a) marko thought he needed a bit more time and also b) redbull and toro rosso already had a solid lineup
Aside from the actual violent threats, Kelvin can cry me a river about the social media abuse. He's an extremely experienced driver and he knew exactly what he was doing. Sorry Kelvin, you signed up to be in spotlight and you did a really awful thing. It's no different for any other athlete on Earth.
So he deserves to be abused on social media? Horrible take
@@ChaserX90 So you think he should be able to cheat and intentionally take out his rival to win a championship and suffer no consequences from the fans of the sport? Now THAT is a horrible take.
Like I said, I don't excuse those who threatened him. Anything below that should be fair game. No one is forcing him read his social media either.
Yeah, he's 25 and he's acting like a kid, he had a problem with Liam all season and he just kept doing stupid things and then he would fake a smile and say everything is ok. I'm not saying he deserved hate, but he should know that people will criticize him. I just wrote to him that he should grow up and he blocked me on Twitter ...
@@asparceproton1 HE DID NOT TAKE HIM OUT ON PURPOUSE
@@draxledes23 Yeah because Lawson took him out at the Nürburgring. Senna and Prost also hated each other after Imola 1989
I‘m Austrian, home of Gerhad Berger, former F1 Driver and current Boss of DTM and I must thank you for interest in this Bullshit that happend during the DTM finals. Even before I watched the video! Thank you in the name if all motorsport enthusiast out there! Thank you!
Du bist das Zuhause von Gerhard Berger? :D
the fact the Berger is the uncle of Lucas Auer (one of the Merc drivers letting Götz through) spicens things up even more
KVDL attitude before and after Sunday's race is enough to make me think it was entirely intentional to take Liam out. The social media post of "the right guy won" reeks of "If I can't win, then I'm going to make sure Liam doesn't". Even in his apology it seemed to be more about him calling out 'fans' for giving him abuse than it was about actually owning his actions and apologising. Team orders are embarrasing but not surprising and this is going to stain DTM and the sportsman in VDL for some time. Feel sorry for the fans who invested loads of time into the series and even paid for tickets for this weekend...what a mess
Team Orders and taking out rivals has been part of Motorsport since the beginning. Actually it was even worse in the 50s with team orders, when drivers had to hand over their cars to team mates who had retired.
And taking out rivals has been part of the sport since the 60s and some of the best drivers of all time are guilty of it (Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Hamilton)
@@eggselent9814 question: do you think Mercedes conspired to take the Ferraris out on purpose because they were getting their butts handed to them?
@@eggselent9814 Just because it's been done before does not make it any less embarrassing. Sport has come a long way since then. Come a long way since Schumacher even... We expect better
@@eggselent9814 hamilton?
@@treyblaze22 When and where? Van der Linde is driving an Audi, not a Mercedes
Liam obviously has great adaptability with different cars. I'd love to see him come back and race Supercars in Australia if the F1 dream doesn't work out, he could be brilliant.
Supercars is dead
@@gtrv6434 It's not flourishing, but it's hardly dying. Looking at all the race series' around the world that have folded or struggled to field grids or gain attendees/sponsors, or had to significantly change their model, like DTM, I'd say Supercars is doing decently well in a difficult motorsport landscape.
He's definitely more of a GT driver than open wheel. His aggressiveness is well balanced for it.
This kinda reminds me Singen 1994 where title-competitor Nannini was pushed to spin by a third driver, making him lose any chance to get the title. Except that time the pilot went full revenge crashing on such third driver, destroying both cars. But I guess those were the days...
It's funny how even outside F1 Mercedes Team(s) manage to piss off a ton of fans
Not even a red bull Ferrari could beat them 🤣
Man this too funny for me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just mercedes habits
Even on public roads most of the time they are one of the biggest A-holes. XD
Every manufacturer would have done what mercedes did if they were in the same position. It's not against the rules
Ah yes, a completely unbiased kiwi reviews the DTM 2021 finale. Jk of course, it was completely unfair for Liam
He's right though...
It's a bit classic. Next you'll get people falling over themselves trying to argue Hartley wasn't a failure in F1. This sort of stuff has happened in all racing series so I don't think it should be particularly scandalous.
Maxi Götz is from my home town, I‘ve known him since I was little and I also know his father very well.
I was glad for him to finally win the title but reality is the circumstances of that last race were not as nice as we all wanted them to be.
Nevertheless he earned the title with years of hard work and bad luck, so he is a worthy champion after all.
Shut it
@@louisbeerreviews8964 L, he deserved it
Imagine if Lawson was driving a merc, he would have won
Bro this isn't F1
You know how the Holy Roman Empire is not holy, not Roman and not an empire? Well, the German Touring Car Masters is not German, not a Touring Car Series, and there are no Masters
Voltaire Bruh
Combining Voltaire and racing? My good sir enjoy your like
Why is It not an empire?😀
@@rekreator9481 just a chappy quote voltaire that gets over used
Let's be fair though, van der linde made the same mistake in the same corner twice in as many days. He should have known it would not work and calling it a racing incident or honest mistake is about as fair as the move itself.
Still, there is this trend where people like to fool themselves into thinking racing incidents were unintentional this year
I think the opposite is happening. There is a trend to think racing incidents are intentional (looking at you Hamilton and Verstappen fan army)
DTM is actually looking a little more preferable now considering the F1 finale now. Coming from a neutral fan who just had to watch whatever you’d call that finish
A new co-F1 race director, which is why I'm here.😂
Unlike certain F1 youtubers Josh just states his bias upfront, that makes the videos much more enjoyable. Keep up the great work!
Who are those certain CZcamsrs if you don't mind revealing?
@@skratta3608 I guess you missed the don't be a Marnus part. No point spreading negativity here
@@skratta3608 AIDAN MILLWARD, for example. I’m yet to see a video of his where he doesn’t find a way to throw shit at Ferrari or Italian people in general.
@@ventisette. John Warren too
@@ventisette. well I mean Ferrari don’t do themselves any favours with a history of blocking innovation in F1 and cheating in recent years…
I like it when you cover other motorsports too instead of just strictly f1 content
The FIA and F1 really said "Hold my beer, I can do better than this"
My big problem was that DTM passively endorsed the shenanigans that occured. Berger only made a statement several days later, and only after the backlash (with no indications he has any real plans to follow through with those words - no plans, no ideas, just hollow damage control PR). The higher ups at the time were happy to see obvious moves to take out competitors go basically unpunished, were happy to see Mercedes cars slowing to actively ram another car without penalty (or even acknowledgment), and were happy to have inter-team team orders - as long as they got the result, they'd sweep any dodgy stuff under the rug and hope the audience wouldn't notice. They've even taken a few fan videos down of some of the dodgy stuff that didn't make the broadcast.
It's either highly incompetent, or corrupt, and it doesn't seem to actually care either way. The team orders is especially egregious when one manufacturer has more than a third of the total cars in the race to try and fix it with. And the ramming of Cassidy was unnecessary and ridiculously dangerous - Elis in any other category would probably face a lengthy ban.
DTM wants it to be this way. It's already struggling for relevance, but this is the nail in the coffin.
The funny part is this video and ones like it will get more views than the DTM finale itself. Reputation ruined with potential fans before the series even begins to take off.
@Rachel Wood Absolutely. It's now just another GT championship. It will die and at some point hopefully be resurrected as a true touring car series again.
@Rachel Wood It has been in a long and slow decline during the 2010s. There is a reason they switched to GT3, it was that or face extinction.
What has turned me off of it is the blatant disregard the drivers have for safety and professionalism.
Yes rubbing is racing. But this video was filled more with clips of number cars than actual racing.
Maybe the best way to get the drivers to drive more professionally and respectfully is to have them flip the bill for the damage.
This was basically mercedes asking aston martin to slow down so that lewis can win or something... this bs...
Tbf, this is much more common in DTM and has happened in the past before. So not an isolated incident, however shitty it may be
@@johnluujl While previously it was a true manufacturers series, DTM is now leaning more to customer series since changing to GT3, which makes this team orders even more laughable
@@johnluujl then DTM is destined to die a slow expensive death
That dive down the inside looks like something I'd do on Gran Turismo Vs the AI but not in a real car Vs real humans
Wow, and I though the 2017 Supercars finale was a mess when McLaughlin shoved Lowndes into the wall, but at least the stewards dealt with it properly and the right champion was crowned. This was just a mess. I just hope Hamilton and Verstappen don’t collide in Abu Dhabi, but I think it’s almost inevitable if they find each other on track.
This is the first time I heard his audio clipping. Man he's furious.
It always has been like this, check the Nannini vs Asch episode. Alessandro literally tried to chase that MB on foot. The reason it came out now is due to the massive influx of fans from f1 and f2. But it's not the first time manufacturers ruin the sport.
Also, Barcelona 2007, etc
F1: You think this is a bad way to finish a race?! Hold my beer.
Abu Dhabi makes this thing look like the best race ever.
As a Saffa🇿🇦, I'm ashamed of what happened.😞
Sorry NZL🇳🇿
Don't be, it's just racers making mistake in the heat of the battle. Yes it feels unfair to Lawson, but racing isn't always fair. Though history of motorsport, the best man don't always win.
And South Africa gives us exciting racers if you look into the 2 wheels world, god I am still excited about Brad Binder's win this season.
The only time we distinctly dont like South Africans is when you beat us at Rugby . What happened was driver v driver , not SA v NZ . Shame it happened at all .
@@tonyrata4796 just remember that at least with Rugby, the competition is fierce but there's no team we respect more than the All Black's. That's why an All Blacks game is special to us and that's why winning means a lot more.
@@hewiebecker6165 Yeah mate , this country stops when the AB's play the boks . And then , win or lose we wake up with a hangover !!! lol.
dude same
Agree with everything you said Josh, I do believe however KVDL had a chip on his shoulder along with a couple of other GT aces throughout the championship, I think it’s more the fact they didn’t like the fact Liam was beating them at there own game
With all due respect, they need to grow up.
Agreed , having watch some of the races , they didn’t like that a new team ( AF corse ) with two new hot-shot driver ( Cassidy , Lawson and albon ) where essentially dominating the sport. Just look at at the points dif from af corse to the Audis in 2nd , more than 70 points
@@Ben-go1iq Actually it was Kvdls first DTM season, so that kinda defeats the point. And also: there was bad blood between Lawson and KVDL all season, especially after the Nürburgring, which was Lawsons fault
@@eggselent9814 DTM is just another series running GT3 now, and Kelvin's been driving GT3s for basically his entire career, while Lawson hopped into them for the first time. It's Kelvin's first season in this particular series, but he's been driving the GT3 cars for several years now.
And now DTM's race director (Niels Wittich) is one of the F1 race directors.
...Mercedes likes this.
A similar thing happened in dtm in 1994. The championship was probably going to be won by Nannini with Alfa Romeo but a german driver driving a private Mercedes crashed purpousedly into Nannini making him lose the championship. History once again repeated itself.
Its happened in F1 as well. 1964 Mexican GP, Graham Hill looked set to win, but then the Ferrari of Bandini crashed into him, taking Hill out of contention. Later Bandini let John Surtees past to help him win the WDC
@@eggselent9814 Bandini came over all Italian
@@dangerdean9066 I wouldn’t call this Italian
There is no track where VDL put that car in. The curb is on his right wheel even before the "turn". It is not even about racing. Its like my 5 years old driving those electric wheels on my lawn. I am disappointed. I am not a fan boy for Lawson or anyone. I just want some racing. I was never a fan for DTM since they change to the prototype era. I don't know if there is still any point to continue the series like this.
I was thinkin "Damn whats Josh gonna think of this?" I think we got the answer
The NASCAR Championship Finale is coming up very soon. I wonder if Josh will make a video about that.
Btw, Josh, if you do make a video about it, I highly suggest inviting S1apsh0es to join in. He knows A LOT about NASCAR, and can give more insight and context to NASCAR’s situation.
Nascar is the worst-run motorsport I've ever seen. They've done everything they could to destroy the racing product legitimacy of the championship. This is what makes it so bad:
1. 550-750 Horsepower is not close to optimal performance for what the cars can do
2. Playoffs -All of it
3. Stages -Just no
4. Damage Clock -Why
5. Big spoiler and low splitter -High downforce mixed with no power makes it extremely difficult to pass and boring racing
Ooof, a Josh Revell/SlapShoes collab, dissecting the biggest clownshow in racing, the NASCAR playoffs?
Sign me up.
God the playoffs suck
Who's here after the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix?
DTM: Look how crap we are.
F1: That's nothing. Watch THIS!!
At the very least Abu Dhabi 2021 might as well be the equivalent of Mercedes' karma for the events from DTM finale (IMO at least)
I only watched dtm since it's reincarnation in 2001 'till about 2008. One the things that always irritated me about dtm is the manufacture team orders. What usually was the case is that, the highest placed driver after one or two races, would be given number 1 status. All the manufactures would follow the same philosophy. Other drivers were pretty much not aloud to race the assigned number 1, and would always have to move over. If there was any category that should ban team orders, it's dtm. Everyone always remembers the 2002 Austrian"let Michael through for the championship" Grand Prix. Go watch the finish of that years DTM race at the same track, another perfect example of why dtm should ban manufactures team orders. Both NASCAR and Supercars only have 3 or 2 manufacturers, and they don't seem to have this problem.
That was the bit that didn't quite come across in the vid: the issue so many had with what Merc did is that it was a manufacturer artificially interfering, those were NOT team orders. They drove for different teams. Plus, Merc has more cars in the series than others, so their opportunity to do something like this was much bigger ...
Mentioning NASCAR in the no team orders issues... yeahhh, I don't remember 7 races either
"NASCAR doesn't seem to have this problem" literally every single plate race since 2000 would disagree with you.
Hell, I can recall back in 2011 when tandem drafting was a thing, Ford instructed the all the teams that had Ford suppourt (so basically every Ford runner) not to work with anybody not running Fords, and even now, the predominant plate talk is "can the Chevrolets actually work together to usurp the Fords" and how strategically-fucked Toyota is by having only five competitive cars.
One huge difference though, is that they have privately-owned and entered cars. The DTM didn't.
Every single car, from every single team was either paid for, supported by, the manufacturers in those years (even Abt Audi in 2001), so each driver or team had an obligation to listen to the orders and obey (apart from Uwe Alzen, who....is just Uwe Alzen.)
Legend says that every Merc driver goes through a masterclass teached by non other than the king of team orders, Lord of the Porridge.
To see that this guy replaces Masi…Yikes
This is easily the biggest motorsport robbery even more than Abu Dhabi 2021
As a South African, I can confirm Kelvin thought he was in the passenger seat and therfore forgot he had brakes. Clearly that is the only explanation
Either way, it was a complete clusterf***
I think he swapped seats with a Taxi driver..
@@honeybadger1656Was trying to get out of the cbd depot
Incident one:
Trying too brake too late
Incident two: Oversteer and trying to correct, hitting back of other car
Mistakes
I miss when DTM was about actual TOURING CARS. It has been downhill ever since
Blame the manufacturers for producing few of those cars
Meanwhile, Super GT is still going strong with their formula..
U can’t really blame DTM for the mess. It’s mainly the Manufacturers fault for lack of production
@@MinhLe-kt5zg But touring cars as a concept still works, it's definitely the fault of DTM that the championship has become what it has
@@bullracing1 Yeah, Super GT is still going strong with cars from multiple regulations (which is awesome in my eyes).
GT500 is pretty much the Class One rocketships we all know and now with DTM dropped Class One regs, Super GT is undoubtedly the fastest GT series out there (though they're already faster than Class One DTM before with their tyre war).
GT300 having 3 different types of cars from different regulations (GT3, JAF-GT300, & MC) also giving us a really really good race as well.
Put both of those classes together on the same track then you get one of, if not the best racing series out there.
And now, the dtm race director last year is now one of the replacements of Masi (other being from WEC) and I am worried now knowing how terrible this finale is
Formula 1: Hold my DRS. . .
Also, congrats to Alex on a good year 😁
" Timo push him out" 6 or 7 years back was harmless in comparison to that. Reminds me of Villeneuve Schumacher, I have not seen that championship execution to that extent within the entire millenium. DTM should annul VdL wins and points like Schumacher back in 97 and suspend him for the first 4 races of the upcoming season, plus forcing Audi and Abt to pay a high fine
Yeah no, you're overreacting.
you're blowing everything out of proportion
@@EmeteCT Not really. Van der Linde deliberately left the track to ram a championship rival attempting to eliminate them from the race. Twice. He also made deliberate and clumsy contact with Gotz as Gotz passed in the second race but only succeeded in damaging his own car.
At the _minimum_ Van der Linde should be getting a multi-event ban going into 2022 and in all honesty DTM could justify a longer ban, even a life ban. He's got plenty of history.
KVL, it's hard to determine exact intent, at the time I put it down to possible takeout/possible insane move, but the words afterwards firmly moved it to the takeout side of things. Definetley deserving of more than a tiny penalty. I think Elis deserves a far bigger penalty - deliberately slowing down and then deliberately hitting an opponent car 5 times (there may have been a sixth one too) with the intent of destroying their car is borderline criminal - and it didn't even go unpunished. That's straight up banworthy to me...
@@AlexConnor_ It wasn’t intentional and it wasn’t the same mistake twice. It was two different incidents. And Schumacher was disqualified from the Championship, but still got to keep his wins
FIA: think this is bad? Hold my beer
I thought the rule regarding team orders was dropped, only because switching to GT cars meant that there are no direct manufactures involvement, only private teams..
Loving the fact that Josh is uploading more videos for us to enjoy!
I can't agree more on the whole "gt driver jealous of single seater driver" statement. Just because a driver is a tin top driver doesn't mean he/she is a shit driver. For all we know it must be a category that driver was aiming for from the very beginning, or like Josh mentioned that single seaters are just a magnitude more expensive compared to gt/touring cars.
Plus GT cars look like actual cars and not spaceships on wheels.
@@MiGujack3 at least they don't look like dead sea bugs like LMP and prototype cars
Plus some drivers pursue careers in gt or touring cars because their driving style better suits the cars
@Oof Biased? No. It's simply the truth. The one clearly biased is the guy bashing LMP prototypes for no reason at all. My comment was about the cars seen in this video, which look like production cars with a bodykit on them, even the guy I replied to mentioned touring cars. But no he really wanted to twist things up his way. I don't get that minecraft example either, maybe because you are "biased" to Roblox and their memes.
So anyway, this conversation ends here.
That mercedes slamming cassidy into the wall was doing Gotz work.
DTM for me was Donington 1995. Thiim, Larini and Naninni appearing outside Goddards 3 abreast! I'd seen Sandro earlier catching some early morning sun next the Alfa motor home. I nodded to him. He nodded back. Sorted.
I saw DTM in 2019. Great racing series but very flawed.
(It was Brands Hatch 2019 (also met David Coulthard that day))
What do you reckon was "flawed" about it?
Name me one racing series that doesn't have any flaws....
@@benn8793 Fun Cup lol
@@benn8793 My guess is that he wanted to make himself sound interresting.
DTM was a series that ran (because how it is now it's just no DTM and i think they should have changed it to German GT Masters or something like that) for 36 years.
I've been going to DTM races since the late 80's and the races were always guarenteed spectacle.
It was affordable and definately best moneys worth race event.
I reckon i've been close to 100 races and i was gutted they cancelled the format.
This guy goes to 1 race and calls it "very flawed"
Hilarious.
@@likilikiki I agree with you on most points. I've been to a few dtm races over the years. The fact that I live near the Nürburgring helps, of course. The switch to gt3 cars was unfortunately unavoidable in the end to keep the series alive. I think the season was very good. Except for the end...
You said that KVDL should be respected because he's a hell of a driver... Racing isn't only about qualifying; racecraft is of equal importance.. so if driving into your competition and even taking yourself out in the process is what you hold in high regard.. then yeah, I can't argue with you. He's one hell of a driver. 🙄
It happens for a person to make a mistake
@@bestoftherest1031 he did the same thing, same corner, same point in the races on both days of the weekend.
Kelvin is fast. His Nurburgring 24H win and 2 ADAC GT Masters title showed that he is a good driver. But that weekend at Norisring was just a shitshow. None of the quality we saw as Audi Sport factory driver in other championship he entered.
They should reintroduce something similar to the original Group A Touring Car regs, so we can see stuff like M3/4's, RS4/5's, C63's, Giulua's etc racing each other. A GT3 style BOP would make it more appealing to OEM's.
I watched every race from the United States and enjoyed them until the last one. That was unsportsmanlike, and since Lawson and Albon won't be back, it further increases the likelihood I won't be back either. DTM has a good thing going there if they came run it equitably.
If the 2022 AF Corse lineup is Cassidy-Lawson, the rest of the grid should be VERY worried.
@@dermysha6410 I posted the comment before finishing the vid so I wasn't sure if it was official yet or not. It makes 300% sense if RB, Ferrari and AF Corse don't want to waste their money on this shit having the possibility of competing in other series such as GTWC where things are more serious. We'll see how it ends up, anyhow, the lineup is hella strong.
The grid should've already been worried with Alex and Liam lmao
both great drivers and they showed that by bringing AF Course to the top of leaderboard
@@fkez0510 Sorry to disagree m8. Cassidy shows up in a car he dosen't know and with a team he dosen't know and absolutely shmashes it. In my opinion, a much better driver than Alex, at least in GTs.
@@estanislao7964 Actually he does have some experience with the car, he's driven the same model in the 24 Hours of Spa in the past. You're right about him not knowing the team though, and also it's probably been a whole year since he drove in anything other than Formula E
Edit: not an entire year, but close
@@estanislao7964 I never said Cassidy wasn't good or that Alex was better than him lmao geez
Just that Alex and Liam was already a great line up
Josh’s videos on hot topics are always the best!
I got the “Kia Carha” joke as “Kia Kaha” was literally my schools motto in NZ
7:04 well that aged well.
Tommo's ears ringing after you mentioned Alex for that 1 second
Now more then ever I want Liam in f1 for 2023!
This whole debacle still makes me so angry. Liam should have that championship title. Absurd that "team" orders were allowed to apply across multiple teams just because they drove the same make of car. Even after that absolutely abhorrent display of poor sportsmanship at the start of the race, it still should have been Liam's.
Ifs and buts
Cassidy did an unbelievable drive, he is amazing
He always is. Unless he pisses Toyota off and gets benched....
He would have been phenomenal if his F1 or Indycar career had managed to take off.
@@OsellaSquadraCorse What did he do to Toyota?
@@elonmusk9697 Signed up to race for ByKolles at Le Mans, but...ByKolles were using a NISMO engine.
VERY shortly after the announcement, Cassidy annouced he was not, in fact, going to be racing at Le Mans, because he was "needed" for test and development work in Japan for the Lexus SuperGT programme.
The DTM was a fun racing series for a long time.
But I'm done with it after the last race.
If Americans knew what DTM was, they’d love it. I haven’t seen the Logano-Busch style blocking/ramming like that outside of nascar.
As they say, “Have at it boys!”
@@jeremythurman5261 Americans don't bother with DTM because they already have the Trans Am Series which fills every niche DTM could and is somehow even more frantic and raw.
Lol and then F1s like hold my beer 😂
2:46 let's face it, most people probably still think what Kvyat did in 2016 Chinese GP is a divebomb, but I don't think they would still think it's a divebomb if they actually watched the replay.
And Seb called Kyvat a torpedo
"Having a fantastic champion ship end in this way is about the most pathetic thing to happen in motor sport".
Well this aged well...
FINALLLLY! Ive asked for a DTM video from last year
Yikes it always annoys me when people use open wheel racing experience as the benchmark for ability, like fuck me every racing discipline is intensely difficult in different ways, especially GT racing!
Thank you for the context around this Josh. Good video.
Thanks for putting things into perspective, I can move on now!!
I only say this, this is the first season I watch DTM and it is only because of Liam Lawson, the more I watched him the more impressed I became and obviously I wanted that championship to go to him, he deserved more than anybody and to lose it the way that he did is just disgusting and frustrating
#JusticeForLawson
KVL sucker-punched Lawson from behind, stole his watch and left him lying on the ground.
Mercedes saw Lawson bleeding on the ground, kicked him in the head and stole his wallet.
DTM said forget it, Jake. It’s Panzertown.
Shame on all of them.
This race looks tame when compared to the other last race 😂
What has always bugged me about DTM is that these things keep happening. Given the track record of DTM, I wouldn't even have been surprised if Mercedes decided to team up and wreck both Lawson and Van der Linde without them coming together beforehand to secure Mercedes' "outsider" chance on the championship.
We all read the title with Fernando's voice didn't we?
Last time I was this early, Alonso was world champion
Farina
I love the f1 season review quotes in Josh’s videos, “open ze legs”
Looking back, this foreshadowed F1
5:31 Atleast in pretty much every other racing series except single seaters blue flags are just a warning and you’re not obligated to let them through, That would lead me to believe those rules apply in DTM aswell.
I would say so too, although people might argue because the Wikipedia page says otherwise even though it refrences an f1 flag guide
Blue flags in DTM are the same as in F1. It's just that at this circuit a pitstop takes pretty much a whole lap. So if you pit you are one lap down. Now, if you would get blue flags you would lose a lot of time which would be just being penalised for making a pitstop. That's why people didn't get blue flags when someone without a pitstop is behind them.
I love van der Linde and I'm sad to see that not as many South African drivers have gotten to his level. I haven't kept up with the DTM since but hopefully this year in 2023 will be better.
Gotz passing everyone in the championship like 001 moonwalking through red light green light
I never understood why people use not having an open wheel career as a negative. Alot of drivers don't want to run open wheel.