Coven Counters Budget Precon Upgrade Guide - Midnight Hunt | Command Zone 423 | Magic The Gathering
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 09. 2021
- Support the show and become a Patron! Be a part of our community, receive awesome rewards, and more! / commandzone
----------
Show Notes:
Double double toil and trouble, by the pricking of my thumb something BUDGET this way comes! This episode, Jimmy and Ashlen bring you our “Coven Counters” Innistrad: Midnight Hunt precon upgrade guide. We’ll tell you witch 10 cards to add and the 10 to take out (for about $30) to create a brew that can guide humanity to victory at any table!
----------
SKILLSHARE:
The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/thecommandzone08211
BETTERHELP:
Start living a happier life today! Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health. Get 10% off your first month by visiting: www.BetterHelp.com/CommandZone
AMAZON MUSIC UNLIMITED:
For a limited time, new customers can try Amazon Music Unlimited FREE for 30 days. No credit card required. Just go to: amazon.com/commandpod
----------
The Command Zone is brought to you by CHANNEL FIREBALL!
Check out the brand new Channel Fireball Marketplace on October 1st for the widest selection of cards from licensed professional vendors. And be sure to use our affiliate link to let them know we sent you: www.channelfireball.com/command
Huge thanks to UltraPro ( / ultraprointl ) for sponsoring this episode and providing awesome prizes for our giveaways. Be sure to check out their new PRO GLOSS sleeves and MYTHIC COLLECTION deck boxes.
Find UltraPro:
Facebook: / ultraprointernational
Twitter: / ultraprointl
----------
What We Talked About on The End Step:
Flowly
www.flowly.world/
----------
Where to Find Ashlen Online:
Twitter: @AshlenRose
Twitch: / ashlen_rose
Instagram: @RawrItsAshlen
----------
Follow us on Instagram:
@CommandCast
Follow us on Twitter:
@CommandCast
@JoshLeeKwai
@jfwong
Follow us on Facebook:
/ commandcast
Email us:
commandzonecast@gmail.com
----------
Commander Rules and Ban List:
mtgcommander.net/ - Hry
Another great include is Kamahl, Heart of Krosa. He is a human, and gives +3/+3 and trample to all creatures at the beginning of combat
26:06 Start of upgrade guide
I added: The Ozolith, Hardened Scales, Cathar's Crusade, Mirari's Wake and my favorite allstar: Renata, Called to the Hunt. Having every creature enter with a +1/+1 counter triggers so much stuff it's insane!
I really thought i would see Call the Coppercoats on this list. That card is insane with Kyler.
Yea they are crazy for missing that card
First thing i thought of when i saw this deck was : HAMZA ELEPHANT BOI
omg yes!
I'm buying this deck just to upgrade my hamza.
My first thought was to make a Katilda, Dawnheart Prime Elfball-style Human Tribal deck.
@@renanaraujo5435 Haha same!!
SAAAAAME
Still to this day Leinore is undervalued as a +1/+1 counter commander, that draw each turn is very nice and super easy to get online since you only need 2 other creatures on board if you don't "and you shouldn't" pump her up with her own effect. Her being able to put a counter on a creature unconditionally is nice as well since most commanders need a secondary theme like lifelink or needing to attack with them to do it, Leinore is consistent.
I disagree with Mentor of the Meek. It seems like a non-bo with the deck with Kyler at the helm. If Kyler is out, then any amount of counters is already going to make Humans entering larger than 2 power. And you want to be churning out Humans once you get Kyler out.
And green has way better be card draw
Yeah, just play Elemental Bond or Cream of the Crop.
Garruk's Uprising should be fine here honestly, draw + trample
Thanks for making these videos, as a person who used to play waaaaay long ago and now getting back in, and feeling super overwhelmed by game types and flavors, these videos are really well produced and the content is super friendly and hopeful for me to learn/catch up at my own pace. Thanks everyone. 🙂
No Slippery Bogbonder? It's a human that gives hexproof counters, and since Kyler which the deck is being skewed towards to, the hexproof counter pumps your team too.
Love Slippery Bogbonder
Kyler is the real commander of this deck. So many human token creation ways. Going wide and tall at the same time is so good.
I think they were talking about Tragic Arrogance, not Tragic Slip when comparing cards in the new card segment.
I'm pretty sure that's the case, too
Yeah I'm surprised the editor didn't correct that, only put tragic slip up on screen showing "not in this deck"
45:57 "Curse of the Climbing Webs" and "Sigarda, Heron's Grace" is NOT really a nombo, unless you curse yourself.
If you curse an opponent which is for example playing a graveyard recurring deck, he will be the one exiling his creature and you'll get the spider.
Sigarda cannot affect his graveyard, she only remove cards from yours.
The only non-synergistic part is creature type, which is a reason valid enough to remove it from the upgraded precon; it's just not really a nonbo; it'd be just a graveyard hate in the deck.
Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that.
I was just about to comment this... lol
My friend who is relatively new to commander played this deck out of the box last night. Curse of the clinging webs was the biggest game all night. Right shut down the Orah deck for most of the game. Great graveyard hate and not a nonbo at all.
Thank you very much for the help! A card I added was visions of dominance. It seemed like a good fit here.
"... those old cards from Ikoria."
Ikoria cards are old?
at the rate they are releasing sets? yes
Herald of war was the first mtg card I ever saw when i was first getting into the hobby. Such nostalgia!
same, I slotted my old, foil Herald of War, from the Innistrad pre-con 'Angelic Might' circa 2012. That card had just been sitting in a binder for a decade and now she can truly shine!
The video I’ve been waiting for! Thank you
Ashlen be looking like the trendy grandma at a hair salon
I hope she’s ok.
I wouldnt use "trendy" but to each there own
The hair makes her look like she has drank some of that "Gender Fluid" 😂
She looked really pretty before, now she looks like the exact thing you just said
Shalai voice of plenty, hamza, increasing devotion, and Maja bretegard protector.
Thanks for upgrade guide. It’s helping me out immensely!
Breath work has helped me in almost every aspect of my life! 🙌👏 more to it than just meditating and stress relief! Your mental and physical health will never be better with intention into your own breathing
Got the deck yesterday, but I got new Sigarda along with it and made her the commander. So far its pretty good with Sigarda, Champion of Light at the helm. Ordered some cards online for the deck, and looking forward to upgrading it! Deck is pretty fun!
I feel like the Gyre sage would evolve from pretty much every creature. It would be the only one not pumped by your commander, and since you want counters, not poower, that seems like a sweet interaction.
Thanks! Budget deck tech is always appreciated.
Thraben Doomsayer is such a good card for Kyler. It's a free tap to make a human, and only 17 cents.
Surprised call of the coppercoats wasn't used in upgrade.
Please🤙:czcams.com/video/z4mvXP37Cr8/video.html
I bought this deck, looking forward to sleeving again Selesnya, my true love.
Bought cuz i was like 'imma be buying zombies....so why not human tribal for the flavor as well!
Mentor of the meek feels really unsynergistic. Doesn’t Kyler make most of your humans bigger than 2/2s?
Still amazes me mentor of the meek is played in any deck. It’s a garbage card.
@@chrisstropki280 I mean if your playing anything other than mono white then yeah, but in mono white especially since a lot of white creatures are smaller and if you have token synergies then it can be a bomb. In the context of being mono white card draw that is. But yes I do agree with you that generally if it’s white paired with any other color then it’s not that great
@@justanotherhuman7106 it’s a common misconception that it’s good. It may be the one of the better white draw spells, but it doesn’t mean it’s good. 3 mana to cast, then have to spend mana to draw on trigger. Consider best case scenario you create 3 tokens from a planeswalker, paying 1 for each trigger. That’s 6 mana draw 3. 50% more than a harmonize. I just don’t like the card at all and exemplifies why mono white is so far behind other colors.
@@chrisstropki280 I understand it’s not a good card in the grand scope of things. My point, however, is that with the tools mono white has currently, it’s a great card for the color. Yeah of course it isn’t at face value better than harmonize, but over the course of a game it can draw you way more cards than harmonize can, and the more mana you put into it the better total value you get out of it. Also I mentioned in my previous comment that outside of mono white I agree it is a garbage card so I don’t know why you mentioned harmonize in the first place since that is a green card and of course if you have green in your deck I wouldn’t encourage you to run mentor. My argument was for mono white specifically. Yes, mono white needs better card draw, I don’t think anyone will refute that, but for right now I will argue that it is a fantastic card for mono white.
You have green so you can play more powerfull stuff, beast whisperer, guardia project oe even something like sylvan library but... Those cards are very expensive in some cases and this is a budget upgrade
I think the deck has been upgraded, but I feel like it could have used a bit more card draw.
Also, how is Katilda not mentioned? Making all of your humans ramp seems good. Especially if you can spam tokens.
I just finished rebuilding the deck after buying it. Ne thing I added was Ordeal of nylea. Helps with the adding counters early and also possible ramp if its around long enough
I think a good card to add into the deck would be forgotten ancient. Getting 1/1 counters for every time a player cast a spell and then moving all of those counters to the commander would just be so insane! Depending on how many counters you get with forgotten ancient you could just straight up and win pretty quickly
You expect ppl to remeber that card doh? *Ba dum tss
If you have the money for it OR if you own a copy: you should run "Hardened Scales" in the deck, the deck has enough +1/+1 counter synergy to run this card, especially since you're adding counters one at a time; making Hardened Scales a really mana efficient card.
Probably included in the deck, but surprised Maja wasn’t mentioned, would seem very strong in this deck.
Intrepid adversary would be pretty good too. later into the game you can flicker it and put a pretty big amount of wide power onto the board by surprise
@5:00 there's 2 others. There's a reprint if Sigarda, Heron's Grace, in addition to the new card Kylar, Sigardian Emissary.
we are probally going to awit until the two decks from crimson vow to be upgraded before the pre con fight
Possibly this for the extra turns game, but they should do a game knights episode with the 4 unchanged deck as soon as they release, right? Likely with someone who doesn't have the time to build an entire deck
@@cacs2201 and I meant for both, as the will realise two decks on each set of Innistrad, and the do the videos before the episodies, even the straight out of the box ones
This deck kinda makes me sad, because like Prosper from AFG, it’s a deck that has an amazing commander (not the main one the other green white one) and then the rest of the value is pretty rough. I recently built Prosper and before the budget upgrades the deck disappointed me a lot, and I feel like this one is the same.
Awesome deck upgrade though, can’t wait to see more.
I love propser though it does feel absolutely nuts/cheating when you got 20+ treasure sitting out
@@buddatello I love prosper hes one of my favourite builds now, but the deck he comes with has so many subthemes and is so unfocused. Tokens, goad, sacrifice, its pretty meh all together. Prosper is a commander I spent fifty dollars on a budget up for and the deck runs so much cleaner now.
When there is new commander decks they always starts ith spoiling the Commandzone one first and as always they have value way higher then the other decks. Its always like this.
I personally thought Prosper was really strong and fun out of the box, upgrading it just made it more so for me. I'm just confused about the rats.
@@Quapper the token generation is really weird, rats included. I switched every rat and goad card out for treasure and mana generation.
Ok, its been a while since Ive seen a youtube video with an opening like that, usually strikes me as 2014 youtube, but that one is AMAZING!
Ashlen Rose looks like a cute grandma with that hair lol
I feel like I haven’t seen anyone mention this card, but Opal Palace seems like the perfect land to have for Kyler.
Kyler is very interesting because the card is good for both voltron and go wide strategies simultaneously.
Biogenic is actually really good I think - put all 3 counters on Kyler and she pumps everyone 3 PLUS whatever that doubles to!
Definitely won a match that way! Got Kyler super pumped, put all the counters on him, then doubled it so it ended up being like a 30/30 and everything else got that same ridiculous buff? It's an instant gamechanger for sure.
Played it near the end after having hardened scales out for a while and wiped the board out in one swing. Biogenic upgrade is definitely worth the mana in the late game.
Cathar's Crusade and Felidar Retreat (even though it makes kitties not humans) would be natural fits to this deck as well, especially with Kyler.
Interesting🤙:czcams.com/video/5rq1C9jqbgo/video.html
I love cathar’s crusade but if you’re playing paper magic it is obnoxious to keep track of lol
Asides from hardened scales and the ozolith, l also wanna recommend gavony township for utility land on the deck
This deck just feels like Elves, but with Humans.
That's basically what white/green Midnight Hunt was lol Sigarda Champion of Light ftw
Great video!
Esper sentinel and grand abolisher, mangara and auger of autumn I know that these all maybe not be budget but man the card advantage is great.
i think mentor of the meek won't do anything because kyler will make the tokens enter with too much power, but at least shamanic revelation could take advantage of it and also take less mana in total (and cannot be killed by a removal or board wipe)
For Human tribal commandere do you think Is Better jirina or Kyler?
Hydra's Growth is a nice low cost (money wise) card that would go well with this deck.
41:57 gyre sage pops off though when the commander is Leinore (I had it tapping for 5+ on several occasions)
Isn't mentor of the meek a nonbo with Kyler's pump effect? I'm building this deck, and I checked the rullings for mentor and it says the player has to add buffs before checking for mentor's trigger:
"Apply power bonuses from counters the creature enters the battlefield with and continuous effects such as that of Valiant Knight before checking to see if Mentor of the Meek’s ability will triggers"
Am I missing something?
Thank you for your outside of mtg recommendation. Also thank you for saying the Internet is just a platform. Not the end all be all. You're right & I forget that
Semester's End + The Ozolith would make things super fun
Another note baseri is a good addition,he focuses around +1/1 counters
I think grand abolisher would be great for the deck, I hate being messed with during my turn
Also katilda and the viper lady from the new sets would be auto includes for me
Love the additions, but I have to say Dearly Departed is a monster in human decks. I get the reasoning behind it, and the logic you give checks out, but I would 100% leave it in.
I added Call The Coppercoats to my Kyler deck. Can plus huge with human tokens
I feel like if you run Kyler as commander you should try to fit in increasing devotion create 5 human tokens and then flashback create 10 human tokens so kyler would get 5 counters to possibly 15 off this one card especially if you are ramping right
Odric is one of my favourite white cards of all time
You never heard of alpha status…. I was playing that in tribal elves when it came out… now I feel old
Kurbis is there because it's pronounced like Kürbis in German, which means pumpkin and is usually a main symbol for autumn. And it has to stay in the deck if Leinore is the commander.
Wyrm's Crossing Patrol is a 1/1 human with myriad, so 2 humans will enter each turn, and both will trigger death's embrace on leaving. Great cheap creature that stays good lategame
Ahhhhhh yes alpha status.....memories 😂😂 it plus saber ants equals a really good token generator and attacker
The Ozolith and Hardened Scales would be good in this deck
Budget.
@@k9commander considering the cards included in zombie precon i cannot justify lack od hardened scales in this one.
@@tttyyy949
Either I misunderstood what Troy said or you misunderstood what Troy said.
This is a video for upgrading the precon within a $30 budget.
I took Troy's message as 'those two cards would be great upgrades for the deck'. A sentiment that I agree with. Unfortunately, those two cards alone would make up the entire budget of this video. There would be no money for the other 8 cards. Hence my reply of "budget".
@@k9commander you didnt misunderstand and i also didnt misunderstand. I went a little offtopic saying that seeing quality of reprints in zombie deck i would expect card like hardened scales reprinted so we wouldnt have to talk about it being over the budget.
@@k9commander I understand this is a budget build. I am saying that those two cards would be good in the deck considering that you can save the +1/+1 counters as well as increase the amount of +1/+1 counters.
This definitely feels like a bolster deck
Abzan Falconer would be a nice addition to this deck, it gives flying to all creatures with a +1/+1 counter (which, in this deck, is basically all creatures)
it is already in the deck.
I gave that deck a huge makeover and built it around Kyler. The biggest problem was definitely the card draw, but i think it can be fixed if you give it some thought
I've never had any issues triggering her draw ability, it works like 95 percent of the time she's on the board. Try her in a counters deck not reliant on humans, if you start looking at her as a human tribal card and more of just a good counters commander, she becomes a lot more stronger.
You guys think Torens Fist of Angels could be a good Commander for this deck?
I would probably add Basri, Devoted paladin. He can put a ton of +1+1 counters in everything. The last ability also helps to just smack the opponent with all your huge counters.
I know it's a late reply been kinda out of touch with the world for a couple weeks, but honestly I see whyd you'd want basri for the multiple minus 1 activations but I feel like that'll just make him more of a target then, and he's already six mana so huge risk of being countered for his value, and if not countered then almost immediately attacked to death. Honestly I wouldn't run either cuz I don't like big 6 drops anyways and both are kinda weak but if you were to run basri I'd recommend Tempt with Glory instead cuz its a better incentive not to get countered by an opponent since theyll get a little value out of it and you don't have to worry about waiting multiple turns and risk attacking with your creatures, to have them all get more than just 1 +1/+1 counter.
I prefer the Satin cubes. it fits into my case, a tower does not, it does if I take the dice tray off, which basicly makes it a slightly taller satin cube.
druid of purification from Adventures in the forgotten realms is a human, in case you want a reclamation sage effect and have it be a human. but it's quite expensive now, here in Europe it goes for 4.7 € or something like that, but I think I'm putting it in my deck.
Kessig Cakebreakers? how dare they! I would cut them too if they break cakes!
the average CMC of this precon is massive, before the change: 3.89 :O I understand why you added a land.
Edit: if you have a bigger budget than this, I would also remove Somberwald beastmaster. you get a lot of value for those 7 mana, but none of them are human! so its a waste. For that, I would add Slipery bogbonder like someone else suggested. Also, I do agree that mentor of the meek is a nonbo with Kyler, so instead, if you have a slightly higher bugdet, go for Mangara the diplomat instead or if you really want the card to be card draw, just put in a green card draw spell. Mangara does protect you a bit in that sense. or you can put in realmwalker and you can cast human creatures from the top of your library, so that gives you an extra card to cast
Interesting🤙:czcams.com/video/z4mvXP37Cr8/video.html
Biogenic upgrade should be in my atraxa deck. If I ever make a deck with her.
Watched this a couple of times before and after buying this deck.
It’s an ok deck, but I think upgrading it to include black to make the deck a Abzan, human tribal, counters deck. Found some decent builds for Anafenza, the Foremost.
I never could make Anafenza, the Foremost work for me, her needing to attack as well as another creature you want to pump was always too restrictive. Same with her graveyard hate, If I want black, I want recursion as well. I think out of any 2 color counters decks, Leinore is the best. By favorite counters deck however is my Chulane, Teller of Tales deck. Most of my favorite creature decks are Chulane decks actually, having that much of a draw engine in the command zone is dangerous lol. Hell, I have a mono green for the most part Chulane deck.
With Kyler, I think you need better token generators. I would also keep the wall that draws cards since you didn't add other card draw
With the counters Synergy as well as some flicker stuff no Cathar’s Crusade?
Cathar's Crusade would eat up a chunk of the budget that Ashlen may have wanted to use elsewhere.
I guess so but it just works so well. For a land slot Gavony Township could be good too.
Celestial Judgement Seems a bit situational, especially for that cmc...
I like the other cards though :)
What would you change "Alpha Status" for?
When I first saw this I just thought "please do human tribal"
Heh. I see Ashlyn is attached to a deck and i automatically was waiting for the Eldrazi card. She luvs her Eldrazi 😍
I think this deck and Leinore are sneaky good. I think people will start seeing how strong it can be once they play it a bit more.
leinore just draws a card once a turn conditionally. I think you mean coven will trigger more than one might think? You can run any strong selesnya shell regardless of this commander
I've been playing it for a while and it's a sleeper after some upgrades. The only two outcomes I've had with it are obliterating other people late game or getting obliterated early game. Kyler only needs three or four turns to become almost unstoppable without a board wipe, and even those are hit or miss with hexproof from Sigarda and/or indestructible from Bastion Protector.
Miss Frizzle costaring heck yeah!
I’d love to see a “Kitchen Table Commander” game from The Command Zone. Meaning any card can be played, even anything that is banned. Just 4 of the most powerful decks you can possibly make for the highest possible entertainment value. Who can make the best deck if literally any card can be used??? Please give this to the fans!!!
Hardened scales seems like an auto add with all the counters going around.
No Maja? Landfall for a human token on a lord seems good
Am I crazy for thinking Call The Coppercoats was a huge missed opportunity here?
10:30 -- $73 reprint value. Today (10/21/24) the cards for this whole deck come out to $36. If you sum only the cards worth $1 or more (there are 9), it's $13.69, and only Herald of War comes in above $1.50. It's worth $3.73.
Bastion Protector was $9.50, now $0.50.
Somberwald Sage was $5,.99, now $1.50.
Herald of War was $5.00, now $3.73.
Mikaeus, the Lunarch was $4.50, now $0.40.
Swords to Plowshares was $3.70, now $1.00.
Eternal Witness was $3.70, now $1.05.
Canopy Vista was $2.50, now $0.28.
Temple of Plenty was $2.50, now $0.25.
Talisman of Unity was $2.30, now $0.43.
Champion of Lambholt was $2.00, now $0.49.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary was $2.00, now $0.99.
Good cards, not sad to see them come down but the value contained within this precon has come way down.
35:30 Arkoma's Will, on the other hand, has gone from $$6.99 to $19.24, lol.
100% there is a Cleric and a fighter sitting right there
I feel like the best commander for the new green white human deck is actually that guy that turns all of your humans into dorks, But maybe that’s just the glimpse-elves player in me (Yes I realize it does not come in the deck)
Definitely put Elspeth Suns Champion in the Kyler deck
The Ozolith with Kyler is gonna be dirty. OH YEEEAH!!!
what about cathar's crusade
When will the Wilhelt upgrade video be releases? 😃
i built around leinore/ coven, it's a fluid deck eitherway you slice it. I find the deck performs faster than the kyler build, however If you keep it in there you get a nice Combo with Leinore that's too good to pas up.
I actually removed Kyler from my Leinore deck, while I do have more humans than the typical counters deck in her 99, I found I had not enough to fully utilize Kyler. I think Leinore is stronger when you break away from the human theme of the deck and see her as just a good counters Commander that is consistent in both distributing counters and drawing.
I would run kyler, sigardian emissary, because this deck has a lot with counter's and Humans
I wouldn't cut Biogenic Upgrade. Put the three +1/+1 counters on Kylar and then double ALL the counters on Kylar seems like a huge buff to the human tribe that comes out of nowhere to me. I'd add Hardened Scales to the mix for a little more spice...
Drawing those two cards is almost instant win.
Late here, but quick question for anyone willing respond… wouldn’t Alpha Status on Kyler be better because he adds +1/+1 on other humans for each counter and adding +2s on him would make him grow and hurt more but also adds that many +1s on other human meaning Heronblade gets the counters (as +1s) anyway so mama on her would still grow? Asking for clarification.
Ashlen had to find a way to add something Eldrazi in the deck
Wouldn't a flicker card be bad in a counter deck since it drops all the counters off whatever you flicker?
@Temur Timmy true, but a lot of the cards in this deck add counters to any and all humans on your board. I guess you just have to be selective about who you add counters to so your flicker doesn't reset large +1 counter amounts
Lack of Cathar's Crusade hurts.
Kurbis immediately found a home in my Zaxara deck
enduring scalelord creates an infinite combo with a number of different 1 of cards that allow it to become an infinitely big flyer. Your gonna want to leave it in. Wildwood scourge for example. Cast them and you now have an infinitely large scalelord and Scourge. And scalelord is played first so surprise you have an infinitely big flyer that can attack that turn.