thank you for focusing on and educating users about the freedom people get when they buy from vendors that provide local control APIs... this is so important.
Looks great and the demo board is so useful as well. I'm glad you mentioned the UK pitfall about not being suitable for ring mains. I would love to see a future version or maybe firmware update with an ability to put two outputs in a parallel mode to switch on/off together to cater for say 32A loads, or even maybe a different device which has the power monitoring for several circuits without the switching
not suitable for ring mains? is that because of the current limits, or is there another reason? not that i would install ring mains anyway, for several reasons.
cheers for the demo, you're dad is a legend for creating that. I would love to get these for my upcoming consumer unit replacement, but 16A is a bit limiting, I could always downrate my 32A ring final circuit to a 16A one but I need a couple of 40A ones for the shower and hob.......guess i'll be waiting for a while longer then
Great visual tool by your dad! I've been looking for a way to use home assistant's power monitoring and getting data from my smart meter seems tricky or expensive so it's good to know an alternative.
i would turn off bluetooth and wifi as soon as it is configured and use ethernet. when ethernet is an option, that wireless stuff makes all kinds of red flags go up.
Very interesting, was watching this thinking this might be a good way to address the issue of all the devices I have in the home that stay on standy overnight ... until you dropped the 16A limitation. Currently I'm using the Shelly EM 2 channel for whole house enery monitoring and find it to be great but I can't seem to get both channels to show up in the Homeassistant energy monitoring for some reason.
Finally saw the video. Looks like I have a couple of 6A and 16A breakers I could put onto one/two of these. I think I'd mainly use it for the power monitoring of the circuits. I don't see me turning off ALL the lights for the ground floor - that's where the individual shelly's come in. In which case, why not simply put some Shelly1PMs ... hmmm. What to do.
I can't imagine if any electrician in Australia install any of Shelly switches in switch board. First 16A 240AC rating switch, terminal blocks will burn if connected pool pump, heat pump or water heater. This terminal block are design to run lights only.
Thanks for the great video. Just wondering if you can share the wiring diagram. I am building an house and like to be able to integrate the Pro 4pm for lights, but of course still want to use standard switches but not sure how you wired it up. Thanks for sharing.
I have them for week or so I'm waiting for electrician to plug them in. I've ordered them for controlling electric heating from one spot. One thing that I would like to see on these switches is ability to "daizy-chain" for lan connections it would definitely save some sockets in my switch as well as hassle to drag cable to each of them.
You mean to tell me your dad's an electrician and didn't make you work as his apprentice to learn the trade? 😂 Mine made me learn on the job ever day from 12 - 18.
Hi there, I have just wired up similar to above - I was wondering if the manual switches work regardless? For me, when I turn off the light / line using the Shelly app (the relay), I need to turn the manual switch on and off again for it to work. Have I was wondering if I am doing something wrong? Help.
I also have 2 X 4PM4s in my house. I noticed that after a power outage - all devices linked to the 4PM are disabled instead of enabled. Is there a way to change this setting ?
Looks great, but the only issue I see is with RCD selectivity. 4 circuits on one RCD, assuming that you wire it in to an RCD first, that then in turn feeds the Shelly 4PM pro is not really suitable. Especially as most electricians use rcbos for selectively purposes now.
Real cool showcase your dad made. Can you link them up 8,12, .. I have some pem 3 sensors i want to use for power measurement. This device is much more easy also saves me the esp32 programming.
Would be amazing if there was a 32A version, but still looks great. Any chance you can review the ethernet part, too? E.g. setup without BT/WiFi at all, just using wired network - connectivity, ability to work fully offline, etc...
Do you have video of your dad wiring up that panel? Seeing it being done while being described would possibly answer so many ??'s 1. Are the switches in this panel ... The same as used in the rest of your house? They aren't momentary switches are they? 2. I'm seeing only 1 line coming in at the bottom of your box. I'm assuming that is the source of your power. You say this is a relay so the 3 lights are on the same circuit? So I'm assuming that I'd need the single version ( which at your filming time wasn't available ) so that each light could be seperated at the fusebox?
I've been curious on getting me one of these, but my problem is that all 4 channels share the same neutral. If something/breaker trips in my fusebox I want both L and N to go dead, not just the L. It could be handy where one need to control ie 4 different motors of a given singular system.
Yeah, only really good for lighting (or other low demand circuit), unless your house is wired with radials which is highly unlikely in the UK.
Před rokem
So there are no dry contacts in this device? What if I want to control something that operates with a different voltage from the power grid (e.g. 12V)?
I wander if there are solutions out there, which provides more channels (or expansions) but only for power metering. In my basement I just wish to monitor power consumption of every single appliance.
Hello! Do you know about Shelly EM? I have one but it is not able to connect in my WiFi. All the other Shelly are ok. The Shely support is realy bad :(
I'd love to see this as an 8 or even 16ch with dry contact support. Another thing I'd like to see is a KNX option. Were slowly getting closer to getting rid of all the existing propeitary systems like Dynalite, CBUS etc.
Looks like Emporia Smart Home Energy Monitor has multiple current clamps so can monitor each circuit to a degree (current clamps are not 100% accurate, especially at low current) in not sure I like things floating about inside a consumer unit and I think it’s more designed to go in to American breaker panels which are much bigger. Plus I don’t know what home assistant integration it has but take a look.
** note ** using the home's switches, requires the switch wiring to be run to the shelly. switches will not work if they are wired for a non-smart home, with switches wired inline as normal.
Thanks to the aka the legend 😁🤭👍. Is this can safely replace the breakers ? Official breakers go through a lot of safety test but what about the shelly feature ? 🤔
going by the wiring diagram at 1:25, I don't think the majority of UK homeowners would find this useful (on lighting circuits anyway) as it requires both the feed and switch-cable to be run to the shelly. unless they simply forego using an external physical switch.
Great device, maybe I'll trade my 2 clamp shelly em to get this one... Or I'll just buy another two 1pm and monitor/control devices in almost the same manner.
Sadly there are several different breaker boxes for the US and they will not have enough room for this. I also doubt the inspector would approve it or know what they are as well.
in that case i strongly advise the Shelly EM, it has 2 channels to messure but you can use more of those units , much more safe as it only clamps onto the circuits wires nothing to rewire needed
Yo. You know you can bond channels so like 2 16A will give you. Tadaa 32A. The problem is I don’t think the software let you bind them to turn on “as one” and your dad as a qualified lekki might say it’s outside of standards doing it…. Maybe? Let us know bro. Great video Ahh just checked the 4PM only supper 40A max so it’s a bit of a waste. These are great for for sub panels though I don’t think they will do for main breakers.
It took me a really long time to realize that these are in the breaker form factor you guys have (EU?). So US audiences can look on in envy for now I guess? I doubt they fit at all, and then there are issues like code requires AFCI/GFCI breakers for most rooms - those features are not whole house, it's per breaker, or often GFCI is done at outlet). The next best thing someone could do is snip the wires coming out of their breaker box, and place these in series using these as a 2nd breaker for the meter functionality, but that sounds like a huge mess (mostly because you're not allowed to splice wires, you must use junction boxes where it's cut, and the wires are the exact length for the run). -- or maybe there's a to-code way of splicing I don't know about (anyone?)
@@mrxmry3264 Lack of knowledge, I guess - but that's kinda what I meant about putting these in series - to do that, I'd need the reails. I'm really curious if anyone's done it here (or wanted to). I'm not against that idea (but it just went from a $500 want for just the Pro 4PMs to a $1000+ want with all the boxes etc). If I put a DIN Rail style box next to my main breakers in series, I'd want to know how to do it to code (including the splicing part). There are smart breakers for the US, but we have so many breaker types that the company that did it (Leviton I think?) just made an entire panel ecosystem. So that's amazingly expensive and makes no sense for a retrofit (not to mention they don't play nice with Home Assistant). Since these do 4 circuits, at $100 these are basically $25 per circuit (it has a US price on it), and if that were the only cost, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
I see limited use for this in a retrofit environment. I certainly couldn't install this at my breaker - I have circuits on a breaker that have multiple lights daisy chained together and rewiring my house to bring every light circuit back to the panel is impossible. Raises interesting questions for what is the proper way to wire a smart home is when doing a new build -- bringing every switch back to the panel would have significant cost implications.
not sure you would do it for every switch, you would probably do it for every circuit. but the way most houses are wired, it's a circuit for all the sockets downstairs, 1 for upstairs and a similar situation for the lists, 2 circuits for upstairs and downstairs. From a power monitoring stance, it's a bit blunt in that you could say, "my energy consumption for the frst floor is...." I'm looking to re-wire my house and have each room, both sockets and lights as its own circuit for more fine grain control and monitoring
@@sygad1 at that point I would be doing the monitoring on the plug / lightswitch level and at the point (ie. with a shelly or what have you). might be more expensiive than this single point option but at least you would get on/off control as well
@@EngineerK it's probably a sensible way to go for super fine level of monitoring. I do wish someone would develop a double UK plug socket that has power monitoring, be the answer to a lot of problems
I realy all my Shelly stuff. I was waiting fo the 4 Pro for a while now. Great it is finally become available. The only thing that I don't like about Shelly ist that they are not able to enable the energy theft feature on the 3EM as well as providen the 4th clamp need for this feature.
@@EverythingSmartHome It should check if someone is steeling power from you. There is ist a 4th connector on the 3EM which you should connect to N so it could check for energy leakage. They advertising this feature on there site but it is not implementet and the clamp needed for this is not in the shop.
i dont think its a good idea to use it in a mainboard putting it in 40 amps and have running 4x 16amps out, its a lot of power ! , yeh you can use relais to the outputs to overrise the max power but than you will missing the power monitoring of each conected device other than just the power used by the relaiscoils itself or i missing something? yeh might help putting the outputs parallel and just use it for one heavy device but still... relais never switch at exact time so sparks will destroi the internal relais after all
Hello, it is impressive how the project is developed with the shelly, I wanted to know if something similar can be done, to have a relay and manual control from the home assistant using the esphome or something similar P.S. greetings from Mexico
I dont see the point for a normal person in a normal house. you are not going to reqiew all your light swithces and lights to come to the shelly box!!! What am i missing? Show us how this is supposed ot be connected in a house wiht standard 8 circuits (light up/down, sockets up/down, cooker, fridge, etc
This product bothers me... if I wanted to take advantage of the 40A it can handle, I would need a 40A fuse in front of it, but I would also need 16A fuses on the output channels. Blah!
Well they could have written some logic in it to disconnect the relay when it gets above 16amp on the channel and if that does not disconnect (relay not working) then it has a short to ground with a resistor to stop too much current melting the unit but sufficient to blow the 40amp fuse that’s put into it. However mcbs are cheap and I’d rather have a 40 or 32 amp mcb supplying it just for safety’s sake. That’s the setup I’ve gone with and if you are pulling >16 amp per channel that’s quite a lot of power given a car charger is usually connected to 32 amp. In these times if you are rich enough to afford that much electricity you can spend a few bob on mcbs and a din rail enclosure.
@@davideyres955 I'll admit I'm not 100% up to scratch on the english jargon, i probably meant MCB when i said fuse. My experience with shelly relays is that they trip on overcurrent way faster than my "fuses", but i'd be surprised if they are considered an acceptable replacement for a "fuse". So that thing must be supplied by max 40A "fuse" for its own protection. Each of the outputs must then be protected by a "fuse" according the the regulations arround wire type and gauge, and installation method used. Max 16 A for normal wall sockets. And then there's the space required, which means you better have a lot of free room in the breaker box. Maybe this works a little differently with ring main systems? I live in IT land my self, so i get that not everyone has the same fundemental architecture. And then there's phase balancing, if youre planning for 40A draw (3x13 isn't unreasonable), you'd probably want to spread it out over the three phases, not everything on one phase. When all that is in place, you'll probably find that the single channel Shellys PMs are a better solution. In times like these, with spot pricing, maxing out my main "fuse" when the price is low is a great way to save some cash. EV charging, water heater, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer... at a 10th of the cost, the savings are real!
@@salemyr fuse and mcb are kind of interchangeable (well not really but they do the same thing) sounds like you are in the US or Canada? I’m guessing but in the UK we generally have just single phase into houses. 3phase is more for industrial or really high power draw. I’m pretty sure the 4pm pro does not work with 3phase. You are absolutely right about it’s protection both before and after the unit and there’s no way I’d recommend anyone rely on the unit for their over current protection. If your breakers/ fuses are similar to ours they are built to trip within a specific amount of time given the size of the overload. This is dependant on the load so something like a big motor that could pull a lot of current at start up would want a more forgiving breaker. So even the usually fitted MCBs here say a 32 amp has something pulling 33 amp on it won’t trip provides it’s that for less than the corresponding time on the chart where as I guess the Shelley’s could just trip at that on amp over, but there’s always the risk that the disconnect in the Shelly could weld together and that’s when the fuse arrangement comes in to play. The problem with the uk 3 phase is they are rotated so you have a potential of 415volts and there’s a bunch of other regs that come in to play and I guess that even the 1pm pro won’t be rated to use in a 3 phase setup. I’ve got another company’s smart socket that has 4 individually controlled sockets on an extension lead and that was good but in the end it fused and the sockets can’t be turned off. It wasn’t overloaded by any means so I’m always a little cautious when it comes to electrical installs and trust the mainstream electrical suppliers for the base level safety since they typically will have much better testing facilities. My dad used to work at an electrical switchgear manufacturers and I’ve seen their stuff tested to destruction at many thousands of amps (their switchgear was for power stations and the like) it goes bang in a big way! Shelly stuff has certifications but the likes of Schneider, Hager, Mk have more installs and are probably better tested. Ring mains are just the cables going from the main board and a single fuse in a ring and each socket is effectively wired in parallel, meaning 2.5mm cable can be wired in to a 32amp fuse/mcb/rcbo. It’s a old British standard from when copper was scarce. Takes no more space in the board really.
@@davideyres955 IT is isolated Terra, we have three phase without neutral. 230V between phases. This is northeast of Newcastle. What I'm thinking when I say I'm better off with the Shelly 1's is that I can use three of them, one for each phase, and have what seems like a better solution to me. No three phase load tho, just the single phase loads spread over the three phases, three Shellys Laymen only talk about fuses around here, but the reality is that the fuses do short circuit, overload, and earth fault. With ring main system, isn't there something about each outlet being protected by a fuse? 32A on a 2,5mm wire is allowed but not more than 16A on a single outlet either way?
@@salemyr regarding ring mains it’s a UK oddity introduced when copper was expensive so you could run more current in to smaller cables. Basically it’s parallel wiring each socket so the current travels both ways back to the consumer unit/ breaker board. Usually there is a fuse in each plug, not everything has a fuse, things like transformers/power brick type devices don’t usually have fuses. The 32amp breaker protects the wire and by “doubling up” the cable it can take more current. Typically ring mains are 2.5mm square cable which is rated for 24 amps, but because of the split then it’s rated at 32. They also assume that not every socket will be plugged into a big load so there are rules and therefore calculations around that. Interesting that you have no neutral, I was under the impression that made the balancing of the phases very important in which case wouldn’t one of the Shelley’s disconnecting have an interesting effect? Efixx did a interesting video on 3 phase where they showed that no current returns down the neutral when they are all in balance but some flows when they are not. Interesting hearing about other countries standards. All the best.
Lol, either someone here is dangerously fatigued, or they're higher than the proverbial kite! 🤣 Either way, I am willing to bet that our dude here is neigh off his balls (a.k.a. high AF), although there is always the possibility that he just started out with a new medication in the day(s) prior to the filming of this video. This might of course end up being a royally botched deduction on my part, but I am 100% sure that were not talking about something of the... more herbal variety shall we say, if you catch my drift 😉 Although I frankly do have a strong suspicion, I couldn't tell you with complete certainty _which_ particular downer or medication we're talking about either. Either way, please indulge me by clicking on the following time stamps to skip to the relevant portion of the video, and then closely watch his face from around 3:06 to 3:35, and then tell me what you think 🤔 (especially whatever he does with his eyes @ 3:10 and 3:23 in particular, wtf is happening there? 😲)
You would have just lost your money if you bet that 😂 you really couldn't be further from it 😂 I don't take anything (including medication), never have. Nothing against it at all, just not for me.
@@EverythingSmartHome it's alright bro, no worries! I was half joking anyways 🤣 I just noticed that you seemed to have to fight tooth and nail just to keep your eyes open, you probably was just a little bit tired, but there was something about your facial expressions and eye movement/blinking patterns while you were (seemingly) struggling to stay awake that for some reason just happened to reminded me of my nodding days all those years ago, hence the intoxication reference 😉
You really should research more. Inductive and resistive loads work totally differently. Inductive loads like pump motors usually require a lot more amps to start up so it could cause a fire in one of these. I'm surprised that your electrician dad didn't mention that to you. 16A is simply not enough for some motor applications. Please do some strong research when you talk about electrical stuff, you could get someone's property damaged or worse.
the relais are 10 amps each, so pretty risky to put 16 amps loads on them, they will not live long, for years and years usage i would not go over like 6 amps on each relais. They simple to small to handle 16 amps! misleading for sure, hope no houses gets in fire.
thank you for focusing on and educating users about the freedom people get when they buy from vendors that provide local control APIs... this is so important.
Of course! Thanks for supporting
Thank you so much, and kudos to your dad for the installation he made for you (and us!) this is really awesome!
This is by far my favourite smart home channel. Unbiased, honest, informative and educational. Keep it up 👍
Thanks Steve, really appreciate that a lot! 🙏
Thanks Dad
Nice work 👍
😂😂 thanks!
That board is awesome! Your dad is a legend!
Haha, I agree, total legend 😅
Looks great and the demo board is so useful as well. I'm glad you mentioned the UK pitfall about not being suitable for ring mains. I would love to see a future version or maybe firmware update with an ability to put two outputs in a parallel mode to switch on/off together to cater for say 32A loads, or even maybe a different device which has the power monitoring for several circuits without the switching
Thanks Robert! That would be cool!
not suitable for ring mains? is that because of the current limits, or is there another reason?
not that i would install ring mains anyway, for several reasons.
cheers for the demo, you're dad is a legend for creating that. I would love to get these for my upcoming consumer unit replacement, but 16A is a bit limiting, I could always downrate my 32A ring final circuit to a 16A one but I need a couple of 40A ones for the shower and hob.......guess i'll be waiting for a while longer then
Put an additional relay behind it and you're done.
I like the board as an illustration. Really helps.
Really useful right?!
Great video as always.. Kudos to mr ESH SNR, very nicely done sir..
Great visual tool by your dad! I've been looking for a way to use home assistant's power monitoring and getting data from my smart meter seems tricky or expensive so it's good to know an alternative.
Way to go Dad 👍 Nicely done review. Wish I could reword my house… thanks.
Haha thanks Richard!
Nice work dad!!! 👍👍👍
Haha thanks!
Always luv you videos, extra thanks to your Dad
Great video as usual! Thanks Lewis. I use Shelly 1 and 2.5 to control lights and roller-shutter, this 4pm could be a good for energy management. :)
Thank you sir! Glad you enjoyed it!
i would turn off bluetooth and wifi as soon as it is configured and use ethernet. when ethernet is an option, that wireless stuff makes all kinds of red flags go up.
Great that you have the options!
Very interesting, was watching this thinking this might be a good way to address the issue of all the devices I have in the home that stay on standy overnight ... until you dropped the 16A limitation. Currently I'm using the Shelly EM 2 channel for whole house enery monitoring and find it to be great but I can't seem to get both channels to show up in the Homeassistant energy monitoring for some reason.
Your dad's a legend! haha
Great review, looks like a pretty cool device! Hopefully a US device is introduced at some point
😂 agreed!
@SkynOcean Awesome!! Ah, America's Top Hat!
Brilliant vid!
Thanks!!
Finally saw the video. Looks like I have a couple of 6A and 16A breakers I could put onto one/two of these. I think I'd mainly use it for the power monitoring of the circuits. I don't see me turning off ALL the lights for the ground floor - that's where the individual shelly's come in. In which case, why not simply put some Shelly1PMs ... hmmm. What to do.
Awesome dad! :D
And nice product of course.
Haha thanks!!
I can't imagine if any electrician in Australia install any of Shelly switches in switch board. First 16A 240AC rating switch, terminal blocks will burn if connected pool pump, heat pump or water heater. This terminal block are design to run lights only.
Thanks for the great video. Just wondering if you can share the wiring diagram. I am building an house and like to be able to integrate the Pro 4pm for lights, but of course still want to use standard switches but not sure how you wired it up. Thanks for sharing.
I have them for week or so I'm waiting for electrician to plug them in. I've ordered them for controlling electric heating from one spot. One thing that I would like to see on these switches is ability to "daizy-chain" for lan connections it would definitely save some sockets in my switch as well as hassle to drag cable to each of them.
Agreed that would be cool!
Hi, thanks for the great video. Can you explain us the type of switch used, wiring and settings of the Shellly?
You mean to tell me your dad's an electrician and didn't make you work as his apprentice to learn the trade? 😂 Mine made me learn on the job ever day from 12 - 18.
This be good for a garden room or office setup
Really nice wiring!! could you post a wiring diagram of this example for the Shelly pro 4pm?
Also would lke a video of wiring your demo set-up
Thanks for your time and work. I am a little bit confused, why should I use relays instead of smart switches? What is the point of it? Pro and Const?
Hi there, I have just wired up similar to above - I was wondering if the manual switches work regardless? For me, when I turn off the light / line using the Shelly app (the relay), I need to turn the manual switch on and off again for it to work. Have I was wondering if I am doing something wrong? Help.
I also have 2 X 4PM4s in my house. I noticed that after a power outage - all devices linked to the 4PM are disabled instead of enabled. Is there a way to change this setting ?
Looks great, but the only issue I see is with RCD selectivity. 4 circuits on one RCD, assuming that you wire it in to an RCD first, that then in turn feeds the Shelly 4PM pro is not really suitable. Especially as most electricians use rcbos for selectively purposes now.
THANKS UK DAD!!!! 🥳🌟👍👍👍👍
Hahahaha 😂
way to go dad! lol - nice video!
Haha thanks Andre!
is it suitable to manage four lines with appliances like dishwasher, trumb dryer, fridger, oven, ecc ?
Real cool showcase your dad made.
Can you link them up 8,12, .. I have some pem 3 sensors i want to use for power measurement. This device is much more easy also saves me the esp32 programming.
Thanks! Yes you can have them side by side on a din rail and should work no problem!
Would be amazing if there was a 32A version, but still looks great. Any chance you can review the ethernet part, too? E.g. setup without BT/WiFi at all, just using wired network - connectivity, ability to work fully offline, etc...
Looks great, does anyone have any recommendations for thermostatic radiator valves that work well with home assistant?
It looks like Tado thermostatic valves work with home assistant. These Tado thermosatatic valves are the ones I am considering using.
Could you link this with the nspanel and turn off all the lights in a room/section of the house?
Would also have liked to see an extra lan port so you could daisy chain them rather than a separate ethernet cable for each one.
That's a pretty good idea, didn't think of that!
Do you have video of your dad wiring up that panel?
Seeing it being done while being described would possibly answer so many ??'s
1. Are the switches in this panel ... The same as used in the rest of your house? They aren't momentary switches are they?
2. I'm seeing only 1 line coming in at the bottom of your box. I'm assuming that is the source of your power. You say this is a relay so the 3 lights are on the same circuit? So I'm assuming that I'd need the single version ( which at your filming time wasn't available ) so that each light could be seperated at the fusebox?
I've been curious on getting me one of these, but my problem is that all 4 channels share the same neutral. If something/breaker trips in my fusebox I want both L and N to go dead, not just the L.
It could be handy where one need to control ie 4 different motors of a given singular system.
Yeah, only really good for lighting (or other low demand circuit), unless your house is wired with radials which is highly unlikely in the UK.
So there are no dry contacts in this device? What if I want to control something that operates with a different voltage from the power grid (e.g. 12V)?
I was wondering how to wire these modules and your dad made it really easy to understand. I will probably wire my new house like this, or similar...
Awesome glad it was useful!
I wander if there are solutions out there, which provides more channels (or expansions) but only for power metering. In my basement I just wish to monitor power consumption of every single appliance.
Hello! Do you know about Shelly EM? I have one but it is not able to connect in my WiFi. All the other Shelly are ok. The Shely support is realy bad :(
I'd love to see this as an 8 or even 16ch with dry contact support. Another thing I'd like to see is a KNX option.
Were slowly getting closer to getting rid of all the existing propeitary systems like Dynalite, CBUS etc.
That would be good too!
Thanks for that video, nice product! Do you know of any that can go into an MCB to monitor all power usage in a UK home?
I don't sorry that's waaaay out of my league!
@@EverythingSmartHome Haha, fair enough, thanks for your videos!
Looks like Emporia Smart Home Energy Monitor has multiple current clamps so can monitor each circuit to a degree (current clamps are not 100% accurate, especially at low current) in not sure I like things floating about inside a consumer unit and I think it’s more designed to go in to American breaker panels which are much bigger.
Plus I don’t know what home assistant integration it has but take a look.
👍 非常好！
my father was an electrician too.
** note ** using the home's switches, requires the switch wiring to be run to the shelly. switches will not work if they are wired for a non-smart home, with switches wired inline as normal.
Thanks to the aka the legend 😁🤭👍.
Is this can safely replace the breakers ?
Official breakers go through a lot of safety test but what about the shelly feature ? 🤔
😂🙌 no this is designed to replace breakers but rather compliment them!
going by the wiring diagram at 1:25, I don't think the majority of UK homeowners would find this useful (on lighting circuits anyway) as it requires both the feed and switch-cable to be run to the shelly. unless they simply forego using an external physical switch.
Great device, maybe I'll trade my 2 clamp shelly em to get this one... Or I'll just buy another two 1pm and monitor/control devices in almost the same manner.
Lots of choices!!
Got all excited then until I realised it was no good for ring mains in the UK. Hopefully they'll bring out a UK spec version
Indeed it's a bit of a shame for us in the UK! UK version would be great!
Oh no!
@@EverythingSmartHome the easy solution is to not use ring circuits. then there won't be a problem, right?
Does it work with homekit
Sadly there are several different breaker boxes for the US and they will not have enough room for this. I also doubt the inspector would approve it or know what they are as well.
What would you suggest if someone just wants to monitor the power usage?
in that case i strongly advise the Shelly EM, it has 2 channels to messure but you can use more of those units , much more safe as it only clamps onto the circuits wires nothing to rewire needed
Yo. You know you can bond channels so like 2 16A will give you. Tadaa 32A. The problem is I don’t think the software let you bind them to turn on “as one” and your dad as a qualified lekki might say it’s outside of standards doing it…. Maybe? Let us know bro. Great video
Ahh just checked the 4PM only supper 40A max so it’s a bit of a waste. These are great for for sub panels though I don’t think they will do for main breakers.
Thanks Piotr! Agree it's a little limited in amperage for our UK homes
Cutting power to the outputs and sending you an alert, how would that work? Your entire house would be without power, no internet or anything else.
The product looks like a Siemens LOGO
Shout out to your dad!
Haha thanks Ian!
It took me a really long time to realize that these are in the breaker form factor you guys have (EU?). So US audiences can look on in envy for now I guess? I doubt they fit at all, and then there are issues like code requires AFCI/GFCI breakers for most rooms - those features are not whole house, it's per breaker, or often GFCI is done at outlet). The next best thing someone could do is snip the wires coming out of their breaker box, and place these in series using these as a 2nd breaker for the meter functionality, but that sounds like a huge mess (mostly because you're not allowed to splice wires, you must use junction boxes where it's cut, and the wires are the exact length for the run). -- or maybe there's a to-code way of splicing I don't know about (anyone?)
like it or not, but occasionally we europeans get something right. besides, what stops you from installing a DIN rail or 2 somewhere?
@@mrxmry3264 Lack of knowledge, I guess - but that's kinda what I meant about putting these in series - to do that, I'd need the reails. I'm really curious if anyone's done it here (or wanted to). I'm not against that idea (but it just went from a $500 want for just the Pro 4PMs to a $1000+ want with all the boxes etc). If I put a DIN Rail style box next to my main breakers in series, I'd want to know how to do it to code (including the splicing part). There are smart breakers for the US, but we have so many breaker types that the company that did it (Leviton I think?) just made an entire panel ecosystem. So that's amazingly expensive and makes no sense for a retrofit (not to mention they don't play nice with Home Assistant). Since these do 4 circuits, at $100 these are basically $25 per circuit (it has a US price on it), and if that were the only cost, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
In coming Dad video ? :)
I see limited use for this in a retrofit environment. I certainly couldn't install this at my breaker - I have circuits on a breaker that have multiple lights daisy chained together and rewiring my house to bring every light circuit back to the panel is impossible. Raises interesting questions for what is the proper way to wire a smart home is when doing a new build -- bringing every switch back to the panel would have significant cost implications.
not sure you would do it for every switch, you would probably do it for every circuit. but the way most houses are wired, it's a circuit for all the sockets downstairs, 1 for upstairs and a similar situation for the lists, 2 circuits for upstairs and downstairs. From a power monitoring stance, it's a bit blunt in that you could say, "my energy consumption for the frst floor is...." I'm looking to re-wire my house and have each room, both sockets and lights as its own circuit for more fine grain control and monitoring
@@sygad1 at that point I would be doing the monitoring on the plug / lightswitch level and at the point (ie. with a shelly or what have you). might be more expensiive than this single point option but at least you would get on/off control as well
@@EngineerK it's probably a sensible way to go for super fine level of monitoring. I do wish someone would develop a double UK plug socket that has power monitoring, be the answer to a lot of problems
I realy all my Shelly stuff. I was waiting fo the 4 Pro for a while now. Great it is finally become available. The only thing that I don't like about Shelly ist that they are not able to enable the energy theft feature on the 3EM as well as providen the 4th clamp need for this feature.
Energy theft feature? 😮 What's that?! Haven't heard of it!
@@EverythingSmartHome It should check if someone is steeling power from you. There is ist a 4th connector on the 3EM which you should connect to N so it could check for energy leakage. They advertising this feature on there site but it is not implementet and the clamp needed for this is not in the shop.
To bad they do not make anything that fits 200 amp US breaker boxes.
i dont think its a good idea to use it in a mainboard putting it in 40 amps and have running 4x 16amps out, its a lot of power ! , yeh you can use relais to the outputs to overrise the max power but than you will missing the power monitoring of each conected device other than just the power used by the relaiscoils itself or i missing something? yeh might help putting the outputs parallel and just use it for one heavy device but still... relais never switch at exact time so sparks will destroi the internal relais after all
Like for Dad.
Think he got more likes than me!
Hello, it is impressive how the project is developed with the shelly, I wanted to know if something similar can be done, to have a relay and manual control from the home assistant using the esphome or something similar
P.S. greetings from Mexico
Sure, but you would need to be careful when you have mains electricity connected like that!
will not work on american homes...... Wish they would come out with an american version of this system.
I dont see the point for a normal person in a normal house. you are not going to reqiew all your light swithces and lights to come to the shelly box!!! What am i missing? Show us how this is supposed ot be connected in a house wiht standard 8 circuits (light up/down, sockets up/down, cooker, fridge, etc
Reliable? 😂
This product bothers me... if I wanted to take advantage of the 40A it can handle, I would need a 40A fuse in front of it, but I would also need 16A fuses on the output channels. Blah!
Well they could have written some logic in it to disconnect the relay when it gets above 16amp on the channel and if that does not disconnect (relay not working) then it has a short to ground with a resistor to stop too much current melting the unit but sufficient to blow the 40amp fuse that’s put into it. However mcbs are cheap and I’d rather have a 40 or 32 amp mcb supplying it just for safety’s sake. That’s the setup I’ve gone with and if you are pulling >16 amp per channel that’s quite a lot of power given a car charger is usually connected to 32 amp.
In these times if you are rich enough to afford that much electricity you can spend a few bob on mcbs and a din rail enclosure.
@@davideyres955 I'll admit I'm not 100% up to scratch on the english jargon, i probably meant MCB when i said fuse.
My experience with shelly relays is that they trip on overcurrent way faster than my "fuses", but i'd be surprised if they are considered an acceptable replacement for a "fuse". So that thing must be supplied by max 40A "fuse" for its own protection. Each of the outputs must then be protected by a "fuse" according the the regulations arround wire type and gauge, and installation method used. Max 16 A for normal wall sockets. And then there's the space required, which means you better have a lot of free room in the breaker box. Maybe this works a little differently with ring main systems? I live in IT land my self, so i get that not everyone has the same fundemental architecture.
And then there's phase balancing, if youre planning for 40A draw (3x13 isn't unreasonable), you'd probably want to spread it out over the three phases, not everything on one phase.
When all that is in place, you'll probably find that the single channel Shellys PMs are a better solution.
In times like these, with spot pricing, maxing out my main "fuse" when the price is low is a great way to save some cash. EV charging, water heater, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer... at a 10th of the cost, the savings are real!
@@salemyr fuse and mcb are kind of interchangeable (well not really but they do the same thing) sounds like you are in the US or Canada? I’m guessing but in the UK we generally have just single phase into houses. 3phase is more for industrial or really high power draw.
I’m pretty sure the 4pm pro does not work with 3phase.
You are absolutely right about it’s protection both before and after the unit and there’s no way I’d recommend anyone rely on the unit for their over current protection.
If your breakers/ fuses are similar to ours they are built to trip within a specific amount of time given the size of the overload. This is dependant on the load so something like a big motor that could pull a lot of current at start up would want a more forgiving breaker. So even the usually fitted MCBs here say a 32 amp has something pulling 33 amp on it won’t trip provides it’s that for less than the corresponding time on the chart where as I guess the Shelley’s could just trip at that on amp over, but there’s always the risk that the disconnect in the Shelly could weld together and that’s when the fuse arrangement comes in to play.
The problem with the uk 3 phase is they are rotated so you have a potential of 415volts and there’s a bunch of other regs that come in to play and I guess that even the 1pm pro won’t be rated to use in a 3 phase setup.
I’ve got another company’s smart socket that has 4 individually controlled sockets on an extension lead and that was good but in the end it fused and the sockets can’t be turned off. It wasn’t overloaded by any means so I’m always a little cautious when it comes to electrical installs and trust the mainstream electrical suppliers for the base level safety since they typically will have much better testing facilities. My dad used to work at an electrical switchgear manufacturers and I’ve seen their stuff tested to destruction at many thousands of amps (their switchgear was for power stations and the like) it goes bang in a big way! Shelly stuff has certifications but the likes of Schneider, Hager, Mk have more installs and are probably better tested.
Ring mains are just the cables going from the main board and a single fuse in a ring and each socket is effectively wired in parallel, meaning 2.5mm cable can be wired in to a 32amp fuse/mcb/rcbo. It’s a old British standard from when copper was scarce. Takes no more space in the board really.
@@davideyres955 IT is isolated Terra, we have three phase without neutral. 230V between phases. This is northeast of Newcastle.
What I'm thinking when I say I'm better off with the Shelly 1's is that I can use three of them, one for each phase, and have what seems like a better solution to me. No three phase load tho, just the single phase loads spread over the three phases, three Shellys
Laymen only talk about fuses around here, but the reality is that the fuses do short circuit, overload, and earth fault.
With ring main system, isn't there something about each outlet being protected by a fuse? 32A on a 2,5mm wire is allowed but not more than 16A on a single outlet either way?
@@salemyr regarding ring mains it’s a UK oddity introduced when copper was expensive so you could run more current in to smaller cables. Basically it’s parallel wiring each socket so the current travels both ways back to the consumer unit/ breaker board. Usually there is a fuse in each plug, not everything has a fuse, things like transformers/power brick type devices don’t usually have fuses. The 32amp breaker protects the wire and by “doubling up” the cable it can take more current. Typically ring mains are 2.5mm square cable which is rated for 24 amps, but because of the split then it’s rated at 32. They also assume that not every socket will be plugged into a big load so there are rules and therefore calculations around that.
Interesting that you have no neutral, I was under the impression that made the balancing of the phases very important in which case wouldn’t one of the Shelley’s disconnecting have an interesting effect? Efixx did a interesting video on 3 phase where they showed that no current returns down the neutral when they are all in balance but some flows when they are not. Interesting hearing about other countries standards.
All the best.
Lol, either someone here is dangerously fatigued, or they're higher than the proverbial kite! 🤣 Either way, I am willing to bet that our dude here is neigh off his balls (a.k.a. high AF), although there is always the possibility that he just started out with a new medication in the day(s) prior to the filming of this video.
This might of course end up being a royally botched deduction on my part, but I am 100% sure that were not talking about something of the... more herbal variety shall we say, if you catch my drift 😉 Although I frankly do have a strong suspicion, I couldn't tell you with complete certainty _which_ particular downer or medication we're talking about either. Either way, please indulge me by clicking on the following time stamps to skip to the relevant portion of the video, and then closely watch his face from around 3:06 to 3:35, and then tell me what you think 🤔 (especially whatever he does with his eyes @ 3:10 and 3:23 in particular, wtf is happening there? 😲)
You would have just lost your money if you bet that 😂 you really couldn't be further from it 😂 I don't take anything (including medication), never have. Nothing against it at all, just not for me.
@@EverythingSmartHome it's alright bro, no worries! I was half joking anyways 🤣 I just noticed that you seemed to have to fight tooth and nail just to keep your eyes open, you probably was just a little bit tired, but there was something about your facial expressions and eye movement/blinking patterns while you were (seemingly) struggling to stay awake that for some reason just happened to reminded me of my nodding days all those years ago, hence the intoxication reference 😉
You really should research more. Inductive and resistive loads work totally differently. Inductive loads like pump motors usually require a lot more amps to start up so it could cause a fire in one of these. I'm surprised that your electrician dad didn't mention that to you. 16A is simply not enough for some motor applications. Please do some strong research when you talk about electrical stuff, you could get someone's property damaged or worse.
What on earth are you talking about? When did I talk about any of those things?
the relais are 10 amps each, so pretty risky to put 16 amps loads on them, they will not live long, for years and years usage i would not go over like 6 amps on each relais. They simple to small to handle 16 amps! misleading for sure, hope no houses gets in fire.