During the depths of the recent lows in gold prices, I bought a one ounce, carded, ASAHI bar. Even though I bought it from a major online bullion dealer (Liberty Coin), all the talk about tungsten fake gold bars in cards had me just a little worried. Contacted Liberty, and they assured me that there was no way they'd sell me a fake (They buy only from authorized suppliers), but that was not enough for me. I took it out of the card, brought it to a local coin shop, and asked them to test it on their Verifier, which they happily did, no charge. When the lady assured me, after the test, that it was 100% real, I felt completely at ease. Now you've put an inkling of doubt back in my mind. Thanks a lot, LOL.
He’s buying shady stuff from goodness knows where. Reputable dealers with reputable product in reputable brands do not typically have this issue. You shouldn’t take your bars out of the casing, from what I understand… it has the potential to decrease the value. This is all my opinion. I could be wrong.
@@dandrake337 yes, gold without the card is worth less since amateur collectors don’t have the machines to verify gold. And the machines dealers use to verify doesn’t need the gold to be taken out. But better to buy coins. So annoying to have gold you can’t touch and feel...and hug and rub...
@@TheBooban I was planning on taking it out of the card, anyway, as I can't stand not being able to hold it normally. From what I've heard from dealers, they will not accept a carded bar, anyway, and immediately take them out of their cards to test them before they buy them from any but authorized dealers of the various mints. Little point in keeping them carded, then, since being carded doesn't assure anyone of anything.
@@therealhawkeyeii7888 yes, he said so in the video also, which sounds crazy because they do have machines to verify them, also as seen in the video. But as I said, the card is important for regular folks. But you make a good point. Everyone talks about buying buying buying. Few ever talk about selling. And the reality is, it’s pretty much a sham. It’s such a pain jn the butt to sell, you are beholden to your LCS whatever he wants to charge.
I also bought a few bars from Liberty Coin. It’s reassuring to hear your story. I just stick with trusted Sellers when buying Gold bars. I have no problems selling them either. I just put them on EBay. I’ve also been selling on EBay for the last 10 years.
When you buy silver or gold, you get scammed by thinking the artwork has value, be it a coin or jewelry. You need to accept that what you have has only the melt value at spot price. If you paid double for the artwork, you do not recover that premium until the spot price increases.
Occasionally I will purchase something with a certain design or message because I like it. I know it may be just melt value but I'm not purchasing for the monetary value alone.
@@MrThe1234guy The premium for the American Silver Eagle is more for universal recognition of a reputable mint. There is higher risk and lower trade value with lesser known and trusted coins, even those that the owner may subjectively find appealing.
A lesson most people learn when they try and sell jewelry second hand, unless it's an extraordinary piece. That's the stuff you buy because you like the look of it on you or your wife, not as an investment. For gold I prefer stuff with only a small premium over spot. Small bars (not assay) or bullion standard Maple Leafs. Easily tested when buying or selling.
Leo, you said in your comment (I am paraphrasing): I did Sigma Pro and XRF. Got same results you did. This implies your XRF came back as gold. But your recent comment above made it seem like it showed it was not pure gold. Or did you mean that Sigma Pro was pure gold but XRF shower differently. I was going to buy a Sigma Pro because I was going to start buying pre-33 gold coins, some gold buffalos maybe. Now I am not so sure.
@@salvatorelivreri Think you might wanna learn how your scanner works, if your results came back as 77% W, which is the symbol for Tungsten it means your bar was 77% Tungsten. Not gold.
One way to check the purity of bars is to use an ultrasonic depth gauge and a vernier thickness gauge. Every metal has a different speed of sound transmission, so knowing the relevant speeds of sound for Au & Ag and the physical thickness of the metal the ultrasonic depth gauge will give the same reading only if the metal is pure and homogenous. I haven't tried blister packed metal but for loose coins/bars they work.
I would think if the bar came from a government mint or or a private mint like Pamp, Perth or Credit Suise, with a serial # , it would be a much safer buy.
From a major retailer or trusted coin shop, yeah. Otherwise the chinese fakes are distributed on ebay regularly, daily, and it takes a long time to report them and get listings removed.
If you want to see or feel what tungsten is like, electrodes for tig welding are made from tungsten, which you can get pure tungsten 'trodes for a couple bucks apiece. I buy them by the box of 10. The rods of tungsten will only bend slightly and then snap. In a thick piece like these bars are, you probably couldn't bend them by hand if they're tungsten.
@@stephenm8100 not all are radioactive. Pure tungsten isn't. 2% Thoriated tungsten is, it's only alpha, which is technically the most dangerous, but it is stopped by paper, and even your skin. Ingesting or breathing the dust would be of concern, but I have known people who have worked around it for years and have lived past 80.
I doubt the tungsten being used to make fake gold bars is pure. It's most likely made from bits of scrap old welding electrodes etc. So if one has a fake gold bar made out of tungsten is most likely very slightly radioactive.
Im new to this, but why would someone invest in a precious metal carded in .02 cents worth of plastic that severely limits a buyer's ability to authenticate and is going to be removed for authentication when being liquidated? Wouldn't uncarded coin or bar be a more secure investment?
I worked for over 40 years as a machinist and I can say that tungsten will NOT bend, even if it is one millimeter thick. 24K gold at 1 mill thick will bend very easily. What you have there is probably gold plated copper. Copper at one mill will be slightly difficult to bend with your hands. If you want to drill it get a pin chuck and use a #80 carbide drill which is only .0135 in diameter and twist it in my hand, if you manage to get any chips, test those in acid. If you don't want the hole to be noticeable, drill in a inside corner, like between the dragon's toes.
Have you tried purchasing a known fake bar (preferably with the same styling) and then doing the bend test on the known fake? This way you will know what the fake "feels" like and will be able to better gauge the result of the test performed on thisone.
@@Adierit I'm just addressing his reticence after doing the test. In general I agree, but if only to put his mind at ease he should attempt the same test on a known fake. Cheaper then having to destroy another assay card on a known legitimate bar to "feel" the bend on a real one. Not to mention he can do the test on the exact same (looking) bar.
Tungsten does not bend. It will snap. Tungsten is hard but brittle. I work with it daily. It has a crazy high melting point and very hard to work with. Welders use Tungsten for tig welding electrodes, and its also used in old school light bulbs.
I sold gold and silver back in the early 2000's, when gold was $400ish/oz and silver was $4ish/oz, and these type of bars were avoided like the plague. Pamp Suisse was the preferred back then, but nothing to doubt with physical in hand bullion. My suggestion, if you like "collector" items in plastic feel, stick with the vintage toy catagory. :-)
@@nidhogg6344 I actually held on to my own personal stash and ended up selling it all around 2007/2008, and I sold my gold for double plus and my silver for triple plus...so I think I did pretty good. Do I wish I still had it today?...heck yeah I do! LOL!
@@southernoregonprospector9074 tough you said in the early 2000 ... that was when gold and silver were extremely low, especially when you look at the chart inflation adjusted. 2011-13 were the best years to sell, back then :) Then buy back in 2015-18 xD ...
@@nidhogg6344 yeah, I thought about that in 11-13 how I wished I would have waited a little longer, but I still turned a few thousand dollars of investment into over $25k of profit, so I was happy. Now what I REALLY wish I still had was my tens of thousands of shares of Sirius Satellite Radio stock...I was buying thousands of shares each week for pennies per share back then, and then stupidly sold it all in 2009, and years later I saw it was like $5+ a share! I could have paid my house off easily with that....live and learn I guess.
@@southernoregonprospector9074 ye, sure, every profit is good. And we can never really time the top or the bottom. The best thing you could have done, if you knew the future, sell the gold in 2010, buy with that a massive computer, and start mining bitcoin xD Then when bitcoin hit that top last year, sell the bitcoin for gold :D But ye, those are only dreams.
As of now I only own bars. But the bars I own are Pamp and Metalor brand, both of which have VERISCAN or in the case of Metalor, a QR code imprinted into the bar itself . Both are easily scanned using the Pamp Suisse Veriscan app or Metalor App.
If you purchase your gold bars from a reputable source like jm bullion, apmex, sd bullion etc then there’s no need to worry about it to begin with, they get their shipments right from the mints/refineries. I don’t get anything off eBay, Facebook etc. i don’t buy from lcs much either but if I did it would be only be one who has a sigma or xrf
I think maybe the best way to preserve packaging and test fully is a tiny drill bit in the corner through the plastic? use a loop look at the "hole " (dont have to go all the way through) it will have the same presentation but even when you sell it it would be proof its real as well, dont have to worry about air getting into the package much either since the gold wont tarnish
I am new to this, please help. 1. Since tungsten is in the center, how will drilling in the corner prove there is no tungsten in the center. 2. Since the gold is in plastic to keep it pristine, wont a hole in the the plastic and gold , however small, be conspicuous so that now the item is not pristine anymore, making the gold worth less, and defeating the entire point of having bought a plastic encased item in the first place. Thanks for clearing that up. 3. How can you put a hole in the package and consider the package Preserved. Thanks for clearing that up.
@@DrSchor number one Im suggesting drilling a hole halfway through the bar, the location doesn't matter much Im suggesting putting it in a place thats not as noticeable at 1st...but it would show whats inside the gold wrapper, is it more gold or tungsten? second Im suggesting a small hole so the look and feel of the entire package is preserved but the bar is still tested so the next seller can enjoy the look and feel of the bar in the plastic, its a better option than completely removed or completely sealed if the new owner is \concerned with its legitimacy...if it was mine and I was worried about it being real I would drill a tiny hole in the eye of the dragon it may not even go noticed at 1st glance...you only have to drill through one side of the plastic not all the way through..the new potential owner may not like the hole or they may find it valuable in that the piece was verified real among fake ones that look the same..
I only buy well known gold rounds for a few reasons but primarily for ease of resale. I try to stick with Krugerrand because they’re easy to confirm with a weight and ping test and the premiums are among the lowest.
The bar you've used to seemingly try and convince people (for some strange reason) that purchasing gold wafers in general should be avoided is highly questionable to begin with. The vast majority of experienced PM investors that buy gold wafers in blister packs are usually from world renown refiners such as PAMP, Perth Mint, Valcambi, Heraeus/Argor-Heraeus, Royal Canadian Mint, Royal Mint, Austrian Mint, Rand Refinery, Metalor, Scottsdale Mint, Geiger etc. from reputable dealers, and in a lot of cases, authorised distributors that source their stock directly from the refiners themselves. There is also a lot of investors that buy directly from the mint, personally, I would have essentially zero doubts about the authenticity of a minted gold bar in such cases. It's not that hard to spot fakes in this format either from observing the packaging alone, there is a few videos on CZcams that are quite helpful in spotting the inconsistencies in counterfeit packaged gold minted bars, especially PAMP and Perth Mint, arguably two of the best refiners in the world, that almost every dealer and investor would be more than happy to purchase in any format. You've simply taken some random comments from a user on CZcams who also apparently bought this obscure piece and turned it into a whole ordeal, whilst raising doubts about your own logic applied in earlier videos, as well as contradicting yourself. Sure, you're going to get hits on your video, but your credibility is slowly trickling down the drain.
I dont trust silver dragons or his commenters at all. I am going to see if salivate metal has anything about bending or drilling holes in your bars. Sounds sus.
I have a stack of 1gr & 2.5 gr Valcambi bars in Assay along with 1/10 oz Gold Brittanias. However, I only buy from SD or Hero Bullion. Those make up all my gold stack.
Gold 1/10 Brits to hard to copy and wouldn't really be worth it .. good security features on sov gold coins .. got heaps tenths and quarters and half's for fractional cause it's recognised as safe ..
My local coin shop will test any items you wish for between $12 to $15. I’ve had them test gold jewelry to coins and have had very good results. Keep the great vids coming!
Gold plated tungsten coin isn't going to be easy to test either. I have two oz gold, one coin one bar that I find questionable. The bar was bought at a local coin shop in Windsor Ontario, the Maple coin was bought from SGB. What makes the coin questionable is the assay card it was in was very warped, have a hard time thinking they'd send them out that way, or that they could easily be damaged by heat. SGB doesn't seem interested in doing anything about it (its been six years since I bought it, but did complain the day I got it), and the local coin shopI bought it ten years ago and don't think they'll do anything. I'm now totally out of buying gold and will stick to silver.
Wahoo happy you got your results and it’s 100% gold. I must say I was deep down kind of wanting to see you break it out of that case and drill into it.
No, tungsten cannot bend. It is like a very heavy, very hard, brittle stone. You can put a tungsten ring in a vice and it will not bend or move until it shatters due to being so hard and brittle.
If you were ever to sell them how much do you think you would lose between purchasing and buying them percentage wise against what the actual gold market returned in that time period?
Whether you purchase GOLD coins or bars, it is more IMPORTANT to buy from a reputable dealer. GOLD coins can be easily counterfeited too. In fact, throughout history, you see fake coins consistently produced like U. S. hundred dollar bills...
It's easy to distinguish magnetically. You need a strong neodymium magnet, I got one 50x50x20mm from ebay. Put the gold bar on a styrofoam floater in the kitchen sink and slowly bring the magnet close to it, like half a centimeter. Gold gets pushed away ever so slightly, tungsten gets attracted. The forces are weak but clearly distinguishable.
Even if you buy your bar from somewhere trusted, like directly from the mint, whoever you sell it to is going to say 'yeah right buddy, how do I know you didn't buy it on Aliexpress?'
Ill say this, if the assay doesn't mean its real then break it out, lol thats literally the ONLY purpose for these plastic holders and paper cards it to ensure its 100% legit so once they are questioned whats the point of keeping them in there? Id rather break it out carefully and pout it in a plastic holder...
All the assays I’ve bought come with some kind of verification code. Would be pretty stupid for a scammer to waste their time on something that can be easily identified as fake or real.
It seems weird to me to worry about taking it out of the plastic if it adds no legitimacy to the product and it’s not name brand. So much concern over opening it for no reason it would seem. 🤔
@@nopeitschucktesta1 scammer keep scamming becasue it works...a fake assay is enough for many sales without people going the additional, step of scanning the item or checking serial numbers...It doesn't work with everyone but it doesnt have to, scams work in masses so if they try to trick 100 people and only 4 are tricked well in this case thats like 8k they made lol..its worth the trouble...
@@michaelbrady4432 well since it has a premium as a collectible and not bullion the owner would want every penny its worth, look at what people pay for slabbed coins, 2X, 10X, 1000X face value or melt value becasue its in a plastic case that someone said its special...
Full depth xrf WILL detect tunston centres! The xray difraction patern of gold and tungsten are quite different. Cheap surface scaners aren't very good. Electrical frequency/conductance will also spot tungsten centres.
I like gold bars… from reputable dealers and companies. I wouldn’t buy “Random Dragon Bar from Generic Company.” But we’ll known stuff from real sites and this won’t be a problem, regardless of the product. Buy from shady dealers and sites… and this will be a problem, regardless of what you are buying.
I would absolutely recommend it. It’s coming from a reputable manufacturer and dealer and has a holographic security feature. I haven’t seen many spot deals these past few years, I’m all over it.
I bought one gold bar and it's the only gold purchase that I really regret. I'm glad you were able to verify yours. I know I will *never* buy another one. Thanks!
I would buy 1/4 or 1/10 coins from U.S. , Canada or South Africa. Those are most recognizeable. Also if gold ever shoots up to $5k. Its gonna be a little difficult to sell a 5oz bar.
I think people prefer fractional or at the highest 1oz gold. Not too many have a 10k trade to do, unless you need a used APC.
Před 5 měsíci
I've been on the fence past few years about buying gold bars. VERY GLAD that I watched this video first. I'll stick to gold coins, and sovereign at that.
Glad you didn't get scammed. Why did you buy the bar in the first place? All i could think of while watching the video is what a pain it will be for you when you try to sell it. I guess if you ever sell it, just sell to one of the big online dealers who often pay extra if it's in an assay and they have machines that test inside of the assay.
I believe it's more safe to purchase fractional gold in assay cards than full oz bars since they are less likely to be faked. I prefer the PAMP or Valcambi bars since they tend to be the most easily recognizable.
They can copy the QR code and serial number of a legit bar and stick it on the card too. Unless the owner is entered into the Database and you see your name there, I see this security feature more like false security. Heraeus has some cool hologram on the back of the bar itself. Trust that more.
Fairly safe when you buy them from a trusted dealer. If you are getting them from someone who got them straight from the source then there's not as much room for a fake. I think the serial numbers are more for you to report if they're stolen tho, to try and recover if they end up at a pawn shop or whatever.
@@randomnetwork1995 I doubt 100% of your viewer's comment is true @Silver Dragons especially the claims about the XRF reading. I picked up a "Pay Tribute to Tungsten Discoverer 1.5inch diameter Pure W Metal Coin" from eBay for $30-$40 to test on my Sigma Metalytics PMV (non-pro model). The high resistivity of Tungsten is the 'tell' when comparing Tungsten vs Gold. It reads around 5.5 for Tungsten compared to around 2.3 for .9999 Gold.
@@randomnetwork1995 Ya, I saw it. I have a Sigma Pro also just because it could penetrate top and bottom. Maybe I misunderstood. XRF should go all the way through also. That is why bullion vaults use it on loaf bars.
@@jerryellis835 and? The sigma did not verify it was real. If it can’t be trusted, it’s not worth $2000. Seems stupid to use a machine that ultimately has to be verified by another.
@@jerryellis835 just cause they use it doesn’t mean it can be trusted 100%. You just saw the very machine you speak of not 100% verify a bar as real gold. That’s a fact.
Really surprised it's not serialized with a secure hash. If it was you could see if it was from a real bar. This would at least prevent scammers from producing fakes without first purchasing the real thing for the serial numbers to copy. If they reused a serial number the provider could warn you that the serial number was checked on a different date and it would be easy to spot a duplicated number
So, you sold the community the idea of using a pmv pro to validate gold, without even knowing that tungsten and gold have almost the exact same density? Isn't that the whole purpose of the pmv pro, to detect tungsten right through a bar or coin, not just the surface?
The middle cant be tested by XRF. XRF relies on light reflection there is no surface in the middle to reflect off. Thin plating can be detected, but thicker plating cant.
Depending on Xray energy, XRF only enters a few µm into gold, unpack that thing and smack it hard with a hammer, if it bends, it's gold, if it fractures, tungsten plate.
step 1. Weigh. Step 2. Measure. Step 3 XRF. Step 4 GVS Magnetic Test. If still concerned, remove from plastic and density test. Any reputable dealer will follow these steps and prove your bar out one way or another without bending, acid testing etc
If you wanted to sell that bar you need to take it to a place that can machine test it (like you did) without having to take it out of the plastic but would be also willing to buy the bar from you. Don't go to a place that cannot machine test before buying from you.
You do definitely need to be careful with these packaged bars. As a beginner I'd avoid unless direct from the mint. The more experienced dealer / investor should not have any difficulties identifying real from fake. They go just fine though XRF and Sigma, and you can account for the packaging with ultrasound. I would recommend buying something like this from the mint direct, or from a dealer that can show you exactly how they are testing it. If they're relying exclusively on the packaging, QR codes etc, then avoid!
What do you think about the 100g combibar for silver? It's premiums 90%-100% over spot, however APMEX 1oz bars currently are about 30% over spot WITHOUT the bartering ability of the combibar. Also if you buy 50g-100g plus of the GOLD combibar the premiums are negligible at best, 3%-7-13% 13% for 20g. So my question is are these premiums justified, & are combiars in silver & gold worth the price for investment purposes?
@@ebayaccount675 I don't think it will matter when your last meal was a cockroach and you find an actual, civilized, working town that you can trade in.
@@esquared5064 It seems the gold in combibars is already so thin it would be hard to fake with tungsten, do you think? My plan for fractional gold is combibars purchased from reliable, big name, online sellers. I have almost no interest in other gold bars or, other than perhaps having a single gold eagle for looking at, gold coins. My metals interest is almost exclusively in what I might sell or trade it for later in life.
@@therealhawkeyeii7888 yeah, but if the makers of this machine were smart, it would print out a picture of the bar, assay number and its verification result.
The question is how does a tungsten bar plated in gold have less utility than a gold bar? Value is derived from utility. I already know the answer but it should give you some hints.
What kind of utility are you referring to? Gold's monetary utility is based on both its scarcity and universal recognition as a store of value and makes up far more of its value than its industrial utility. Which is why it retains its value far better than other equally useful metals like silver when the economy stutters and industry slows.
Investing in "Precious Metal" is fine, Easy to Buy. But it seems no one is talking about SELLING. I found it near impossible to sell during Good times, yet it is touted as an investment for the future. How and Where to Sell? Most won't buy without an actual Assay, yet opening the package is alleged to decrease the Value of the Bar? How is that? Seems to me on the face of it, "Precious Metals" is a scam.
Buy from unquestionably reputable sellers. Also, I don't buy for the look of the item, but, instead for its resale marketability which leads back to only using reputable sellers. Buying on Ebay or the like is an additional risk I will not tolerate.
Our local coin shop has the big, expensive testing machine. One thing he said to me when I went to him with a question on a defective Vacambi one-ounce gold bar was, "NO MORE BARS!!" He must've said it a half-dozen times. I agree with him and will never purchase any again!
I'd just cut the metal out the freking card, measure the density by "wet weighing", ring it to hear the sound, try to measure the conductivity. I hate all these boxes and slabs that supposedly say something about authenticity, but really exist only to rip off your money. Metal should speak for itself.
Great video! I've actually been really considering 5g and 10g gold brittania bars a lot based on the reputation, beauty, and low premium. Any advice or reasons I should maybe reconsider?
If you want pure metal at the lowest premium thats easily testable and identifiable, why would you buy a dragon in a card in the first place? Anything thats not plain metal is speculative and a different conversation. You get second market circulated or just eat the premium (remember what you paid it in and how long ago) and pop the card yourself. Its not 'losing value' if you're overpaying in the first place or have to do weeks of forensics to determine what you hope it *isn't*. Metal only stores value. If a $40 premium on something that isnt getting sold any time soon is going to make you lose sleep, then its not stacking, its investing. Investing presumes different goals, and PMs would take forever. Even coins appreciate at a snails pace when at all. A second market known 1z Au bar is great for stacking. A designer unknown bar in a card that makes it harder instead of easier to verify, not so much, eh?
I don't understand why the sigma metalytics pro would not give you an accurate result on the through test setting.(the second test, not the first). I have spoken with the tech support at Sigma and they have confirmed Tungsten will not pass the through test (the second test). SG tolerance between tungsten and gold is so close, the margin of error is to close to be definitive. But test 2 should fail. I own multiple machines and different sg devices. I test over a thousand items a year. Curious to see if anyone has different opinion on the sigma pro...... on the secondary test. I do understand if you cannot fit the bar under sensor 2 on the right side, you should rip it out without hesitation before buying. Please chime in on this, as it is new to me. Thanks for being so detailed!! Like your video's!
Also super happy you have the real deal. Tungsten is extremely difficult to bend. Also takes alot of pressure to drill. Anyways at least it's all good news. 👍👍
If you just buy from bullion dealers you would not have to worry even if second hand it is properly tested before they can sell. And i doubt anyone on ebay can beat a large bullion dealers price.
As far as 12-15 years ago . There are already exist stories of tungsten coated gold bar . In the end you have to destroy the gold bar somehow to prove it when you sell it back to dealer who only want the gold .
But but... what about bars w/ security features? Also, aren't coins (those without security features) also subject to counterfeiting? I think the rational conclusion is to stick to modern bullion items w/ security features.
Crossroad Coin in Vandalia Ohio has one of these XRF units. I used it a couple years ago on a kilo panda that I had. They charged me $10 and I just walked in, I didn't need to apply or fill out an application. My panda ended being fake but when I got the composition report it said 15% rhodium. I was shocked. It was supposed to be a kilo of 9999 silver but if it was 15% rhodium then it would be worth more as a fake than it would have been worth it if was real. When I asked the guy laughed a little and said no, 15% of the plating was rhodium. Unfortunately the plating being only a couple micrograms didn't really have much rhodium in it. The good news is that the LCS I bought the panda from took it back.
There is no added value from the plastic or the design. It's only worth spot price, if you manage to sell it to another collector for more you are effectively ripping them off.
I went ahead and purchased this sale one at SD Bullion since it's from reputable dealer and manufacturer, serialized, and uses kinebar technology for added high security features. Do some research and decide for yourself.
@@jetfocus1152 I've ordered a decent amount from SD Bullion (probably more than any other online dealer) and have yet to have an issue. Also, I'm sure much of their products (especially those in large quantities) come directly from reputable mints and I'm sure whatever they buy elsewhere they test to verify, as their reputation depends on it. So, yes, i trust what i get from them.
During the depths of the recent lows in gold prices, I bought a one ounce, carded, ASAHI bar. Even though I bought it from a major online bullion dealer (Liberty Coin), all the talk about tungsten fake gold bars in cards had me just a little worried. Contacted Liberty, and they assured me that there was no way they'd sell me a fake (They buy only from authorized suppliers), but that was not enough for me. I took it out of the card, brought it to a local coin shop, and asked them to test it on their Verifier, which they happily did, no charge. When the lady assured me, after the test, that it was 100% real, I felt completely at ease. Now you've put an inkling of doubt back in my mind. Thanks a lot, LOL.
He’s buying shady stuff from goodness knows where.
Reputable dealers with reputable product in reputable brands do not typically have this issue.
You shouldn’t take your bars out of the casing, from what I understand… it has the potential to decrease the value.
This is all my opinion. I could be wrong.
@@dandrake337 yes, gold without the card is worth less since amateur collectors don’t have the machines to verify gold. And the machines dealers use to verify doesn’t need the gold to be taken out.
But better to buy coins. So annoying to have gold you can’t touch and feel...and hug and rub...
@@TheBooban I was planning on taking it out of the card, anyway, as I can't stand not being able to hold it normally. From what I've heard from dealers, they will not accept a carded bar, anyway, and immediately take them out of their cards to test them before they buy them from any but authorized dealers of the various mints. Little point in keeping them carded, then, since being carded doesn't assure anyone of anything.
@@therealhawkeyeii7888 yes, he said so in the video also, which sounds crazy because they do have machines to verify them, also as seen in the video. But as I said, the card is important for regular folks.
But you make a good point. Everyone talks about buying buying buying. Few ever talk about selling. And the reality is, it’s pretty much a sham. It’s such a pain jn the butt to sell, you are beholden to your LCS whatever he wants to charge.
I also bought a few bars from Liberty Coin. It’s reassuring to hear your story. I just stick with trusted Sellers when buying Gold bars. I have no problems selling them either. I just put them on EBay. I’ve also been selling on EBay for the last 10 years.
When you buy silver or gold, you get scammed by thinking the artwork has value, be it a coin or jewelry. You need to accept that what you have has only the melt value at spot price. If you paid double for the artwork, you do not recover that premium until the spot price increases.
Your so right , people get scam by byinh the art but at end that bar is the same price as the next bar as long g as it's the same carrot
Occasionally I will purchase something with a certain design or message because I like it. I know it may be just melt value but I'm not purchasing for the monetary value alone.
Certain coins have a history of selling for more than others. Just look at the American silver eagle. That artwork will score you a nice premium.
@@MrThe1234guy The premium for the American Silver Eagle is more for universal recognition of a reputable mint. There is higher risk and lower trade value with lesser known and trusted coins, even those that the owner may subjectively find appealing.
A lesson most people learn when they try and sell jewelry second hand, unless it's an extraordinary piece. That's the stuff you buy because you like the look of it on you or your wife, not as an investment.
For gold I prefer stuff with only a small premium over spot. Small bars (not assay) or bullion standard Maple Leafs. Easily tested when buying or selling.
Glad to hear yours is real. XRF best option. My results were 77% W, 22% AU and 1% trace elements. Mine would not bend at all like yours did. 🎉🎉🎉
Do you have it? Send it to him and lets see a video of him testing it and comparing to the real thing.
I'm assuming the W is for wolframite, the ore of tungsten.
Leo, you said in your comment (I am paraphrasing): I did Sigma Pro and XRF. Got same results you did.
This implies your XRF came back as gold. But your recent comment above made it seem like it showed it was not pure gold.
Or did you mean that Sigma Pro was pure gold but XRF shower differently.
I was going to buy a Sigma Pro because I was going to start buying pre-33 gold coins, some gold buffalos maybe. Now I am not so sure.
@@salvatorelivreri Yeah I think he just wanted to see SD try to bend or drill that bar :P To see if he could get him to try it, lol.
@@salvatorelivreri Think you might wanna learn how your scanner works, if your results came back as 77% W, which is the symbol for Tungsten it means your bar was 77% Tungsten. Not gold.
In my opinion, if you're just stacking metal, not collecting, it'd be better to avoid anything collectible, unless you get it for below spot price.
One way to check the purity of bars is to use an ultrasonic depth gauge and a vernier thickness gauge. Every metal has a different speed of sound transmission, so knowing the relevant speeds of sound for Au & Ag and the physical thickness of the metal the ultrasonic depth gauge will give the same reading only if the metal is pure and homogenous. I haven't tried blister packed metal but for loose coins/bars they work.
I would think if the bar came from a government mint or or a private mint like Pamp, Perth or Credit Suise, with a serial # , it would be a much safer buy.
From a major retailer or trusted coin shop, yeah. Otherwise the chinese fakes are distributed on ebay regularly, daily, and it takes a long time to report them and get listings removed.
@@XtremeChiliPepper why would anyone buy something like that on ebay and introduce such an obvious risk
If you want to see or feel what tungsten is like, electrodes for tig welding are made from tungsten, which you can get pure tungsten 'trodes for a couple bucks apiece. I buy them by the box of 10. The rods of tungsten will only bend slightly and then snap. In a thick piece like these bars are, you probably couldn't bend them by hand if they're tungsten.
Tungsten is also slightly radioactive. Would testing it with a geiger counter work?
@@stephenm8100 not all are radioactive. Pure tungsten isn't. 2% Thoriated tungsten is, it's only alpha, which is technically the most dangerous, but it is stopped by paper, and even your skin. Ingesting or breathing the dust would be of concern, but I have known people who have worked around it for years and have lived past 80.
I doubt the tungsten being used to make fake gold bars is pure. It's most likely made from bits of scrap old welding electrodes etc. So if one has a fake gold bar made out of tungsten is most likely very slightly radioactive.
@@jeffwombold9167 have you gotten around to testing my theory with a geiger counter?
No, I don't have access to one. But tungsten by itself is not radioactive. Only certain welding electrodes are.
Im new to this, but why would someone invest in a precious metal carded in .02 cents worth of plastic that severely limits a buyer's ability to authenticate and is going to be removed for authentication when being liquidated? Wouldn't uncarded coin or bar be a more secure investment?
I worked for over 40 years as a machinist and I can say that tungsten will NOT bend, even if it is one millimeter thick. 24K gold at 1 mill thick will bend very easily. What you have there is probably gold plated copper. Copper at one mill will be slightly difficult to bend with your hands. If you want to drill it get a pin chuck and use a #80 carbide drill which is only .0135 in diameter and twist it in my hand, if you manage to get any chips, test those in acid. If you don't want the hole to be noticeable, drill in a inside corner, like between the dragon's toes.
Man that's rough. It's like a lose lose situation. If it's fake you lose, if it's real then you lose because it's damaged.
Where did you buy it from? I have far less reservations when buying Bullion bars or “coins”from reputable dealers, such as SD Bullion.
Have you tried purchasing a known fake bar (preferably with the same styling) and then doing the bend test on the known fake? This way you will know what the fake "feels" like and will be able to better gauge the result of the test performed on thisone.
Also if he had a known fake, he could show us the difference.
Tungsten doesn't bend, it's very brittle. It would shear in half provided you're able to put enough force on it.
@@Adierit I'm just addressing his reticence after doing the test. In general I agree, but if only to put his mind at ease he should attempt the same test on a known fake. Cheaper then having to destroy another assay card on a known legitimate bar to "feel" the bend on a real one. Not to mention he can do the test on the exact same (looking) bar.
Tungsten does not bend. It will snap. Tungsten is hard but brittle. I work with it daily. It has a crazy high melting point and very hard to work with. Welders use Tungsten for tig welding electrodes, and its also used in old school light bulbs.
I sold gold and silver back in the early 2000's, when gold was $400ish/oz and silver was $4ish/oz, and these type of bars were avoided like the plague. Pamp Suisse was the preferred back then, but nothing to doubt with physical in hand bullion. My suggestion, if you like "collector" items in plastic feel, stick with the vintage toy catagory. :-)
OMG, that was such a wrong time to sell ... :(
@@nidhogg6344 I actually held on to my own personal stash and ended up selling it all around 2007/2008, and I sold my gold for double plus and my silver for triple plus...so I think I did pretty good. Do I wish I still had it today?...heck yeah I do! LOL!
@@southernoregonprospector9074 tough you said in the early 2000 ... that was when gold and silver were extremely low, especially when you look at the chart inflation adjusted. 2011-13 were the best years to sell, back then :) Then buy back in 2015-18 xD ...
@@nidhogg6344 yeah, I thought about that in 11-13 how I wished I would have waited a little longer, but I still turned a few thousand dollars of investment into over $25k of profit, so I was happy. Now what I REALLY wish I still had was my tens of thousands of shares of Sirius Satellite Radio stock...I was buying thousands of shares each week for pennies per share back then, and then stupidly sold it all in 2009, and years later I saw it was like $5+ a share! I could have paid my house off easily with that....live and learn I guess.
@@southernoregonprospector9074 ye, sure, every profit is good. And we can never really time the top or the bottom.
The best thing you could have done, if you knew the future, sell the gold in 2010, buy with that a massive computer, and start mining bitcoin xD Then when bitcoin hit that top last year, sell the bitcoin for gold :D But ye, those are only dreams.
As of now I only own bars. But the bars I own are Pamp and Metalor brand, both of which have VERISCAN or in the case of Metalor, a QR code imprinted into the bar itself . Both are easily scanned using the Pamp Suisse Veriscan app or Metalor App.
Explain to me why a scammer can’t make a mimic of a real PAMP including the certificate code and QR code
If you purchase your gold bars from a reputable source like jm bullion, apmex, sd bullion etc then there’s no need to worry about it to begin with, they get their shipments right from the mints/refineries. I don’t get anything off eBay, Facebook etc. i don’t buy from lcs much either but if I did it would be only be one who has a sigma or xrf
Cut it into 31 pieces, that way the premium is higher and you make a profit.
I think maybe the best way to preserve packaging and test fully is a tiny drill bit in the corner through the plastic? use a loop look at the "hole " (dont have to go all the way through) it will have the same presentation but even when you sell it it would be proof its real as well, dont have to worry about air getting into the package much either since the gold wont tarnish
Been watching you for years man love your vids
I am new to this, please help. 1. Since tungsten is in the center, how will drilling in the corner prove there is no tungsten in the center. 2. Since the gold is in plastic to keep it pristine, wont a hole in the the plastic and gold , however small, be conspicuous so that now the item is not pristine anymore, making the gold worth less, and defeating the entire point of having bought a plastic encased item in the first place. Thanks for clearing that up. 3. How can you put a hole in the package and consider the package Preserved. Thanks for clearing that up.
@@jaredm2123 Hey thnaks Jared 😁
@@DrSchor number one Im suggesting drilling a hole halfway through the bar, the location doesn't matter much Im suggesting putting it in a place thats not as noticeable at 1st...but it would show whats inside the gold wrapper, is it more gold or tungsten? second Im suggesting a small hole so the look and feel of the entire package is preserved but the bar is still tested so the next seller can enjoy the look and feel of the bar in the plastic, its a better option than completely removed or completely sealed if the new owner is \concerned with its legitimacy...if it was mine and I was worried about it being real I would drill a tiny hole in the eye of the dragon it may not even go noticed at 1st glance...you only have to drill through one side of the plastic not all the way through..the new potential owner may not like the hole or they may find it valuable in that the piece was verified real among fake ones that look the same..
@@cutlerylover funny to see you here. I as well watched many of ur videos as a kid. I’ve got a nice zippo and knife collection to show for it lol
The fact that you lose value if you take the “gold” out seems like a scammers dream.
Yeah but on the other hand when you buy real ones it keeps them in Mint condition
@@RiccardoPatrese4 debatable. Not all of mine are in assay cards and the ones in the cards look much more presentable and classy in my opinion.
I only buy well known gold rounds for a few reasons but primarily for ease of resale. I try to stick with Krugerrand because they’re easy to confirm with a weight and ping test and the premiums are among the lowest.
Absolutely the Only way to go. Buy melt value gold.
Should their be any worries is buying from SD bullion or Jm bullion? I would imagine their testing is pretty strict?
The bar you've used to seemingly try and convince people (for some strange reason) that purchasing gold wafers in general should be avoided is highly questionable to begin with. The vast majority of experienced PM investors that buy gold wafers in blister packs are usually from world renown refiners such as PAMP, Perth Mint, Valcambi, Heraeus/Argor-Heraeus, Royal Canadian Mint, Royal Mint, Austrian Mint, Rand Refinery, Metalor, Scottsdale Mint, Geiger etc. from reputable dealers, and in a lot of cases, authorised distributors that source their stock directly from the refiners themselves. There is also a lot of investors that buy directly from the mint, personally, I would have essentially zero doubts about the authenticity of a minted gold bar in such cases.
It's not that hard to spot fakes in this format either from observing the packaging alone, there is a few videos on CZcams that are quite helpful in spotting the inconsistencies in counterfeit packaged gold minted bars, especially PAMP and Perth Mint, arguably two of the best refiners in the world, that almost every dealer and investor would be more than happy to purchase in any format.
You've simply taken some random comments from a user on CZcams who also apparently bought this obscure piece and turned it into a whole ordeal, whilst raising doubts about your own logic applied in earlier videos, as well as contradicting yourself. Sure, you're going to get hits on your video, but your credibility is slowly trickling down the drain.
I dont trust silver dragons or his commenters at all. I am going to see if salivate metal has anything about bending or drilling holes in your bars. Sounds sus.
I have a stack of 1gr & 2.5 gr Valcambi bars in Assay along with 1/10 oz Gold Brittanias. However, I only buy from SD or Hero Bullion. Those make up all my gold stack.
Gold 1/10 Brits to hard to copy and wouldn't really be worth it .. good security features on sov gold coins .. got heaps tenths and quarters and half's for fractional cause it's recognised as safe ..
My local coin shop will test any items you wish for between $12 to $15. I’ve had them test gold jewelry to coins and have had very good results. Keep the great vids coming!
They charge you to test? What kind of cheapskates are they?
@@trp2413 I reckon you might get away with that once. Why would a dealer test until a price had been agreed on?
@@lorenzoas8500 CHeapskates with tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. I can't blame them for wanting to recoup costs.
@@Fanta.... bro the jeweler I go to will throw anything you want onto the xrf.
My guy will check anything for free, he just has to be available.
Gold plated tungsten coin isn't going to be easy to test either. I have two oz gold, one coin one bar that I find questionable. The bar was bought at a local coin shop in Windsor Ontario, the Maple coin was bought from SGB. What makes the coin questionable is the assay card it was in was very warped, have a hard time thinking they'd send them out that way, or that they could easily be damaged by heat. SGB doesn't seem interested in doing anything about it (its been six years since I bought it, but did complain the day I got it), and the local coin shopI bought it ten years ago and don't think they'll do anything. I'm now totally out of buying gold and will stick to silver.
Wahoo happy you got your results and it’s 100% gold. I must say I was deep down kind of wanting to see you break it out of that case and drill into it.
No, tungsten cannot bend. It is like a very heavy, very hard, brittle stone. You can put a tungsten ring in a vice and it will not bend or move until it shatters due to being so hard and brittle.
I stick to PAMP bars, just because I feel reassured with the verification code method QR code and serial number. Am I right to be reassured by this?
A good preventive measure you can take to ensure your not buying fakes is not buying on ebay.
Depth of penetration of xrf is only a few microns. Sound velocity is a better test.
I have a lot of 1 gram bars from JM Bullion, SD Bullion in cards. I'm pretty confident they're real.
If you were ever to sell them how much do you think you would lose between purchasing and buying them percentage wise against what the actual gold market returned in that time period?
@@johngill2853 I would sell them on Ebay and not lose anything. If I went to a LCS, I would definitely lose money.
Whether you purchase GOLD coins or bars, it is more IMPORTANT to buy from a reputable dealer. GOLD coins can be easily counterfeited too. In fact, throughout history, you see fake coins consistently produced like U. S. hundred dollar bills...
Gold doesn't tarnish or scratch very easy. No need to protect it in plastic. Touch your gold!
It's easy to distinguish magnetically. You need a strong neodymium magnet, I got one 50x50x20mm from ebay. Put the gold bar on a styrofoam floater in the kitchen sink and slowly bring the magnet close to it, like half a centimeter. Gold gets pushed away ever so slightly, tungsten gets attracted. The forces are weak but clearly distinguishable.
Been thinking about gold lately BUT your video has made me see the light....I'm sticking with silver.... easy peasy
Measure the velocity of sound in the material. The velocity in tungsten will be much higher than in gold.
Even if you buy your bar from somewhere trusted, like directly from the mint, whoever you sell it to is going to say 'yeah right buddy, how do I know you didn't buy it on Aliexpress?'
Very interesting video, SD. I'd be curious to see how the bar tests with your basic model Sigma using the wand attachment? Please let me know. Thanks!
Ill say this, if the assay doesn't mean its real then break it out, lol thats literally the ONLY purpose for these plastic holders and paper cards it to ensure its 100% legit so once they are questioned whats the point of keeping them in there? Id rather break it out carefully and pout it in a plastic holder...
All the assays I’ve bought come with some kind of verification code. Would be pretty stupid for a scammer to waste their time on something that can be easily identified as fake or real.
It seems weird to me to worry about taking it out of the plastic if it adds no legitimacy to the product and it’s not name brand. So much concern over opening it for no reason it would seem. 🤔
@@nopeitschucktesta1 scammer keep scamming becasue it works...a fake assay is enough for many sales without people going the additional, step of scanning the item or checking serial numbers...It doesn't work with everyone but it doesnt have to, scams work in masses so if they try to trick 100 people and only 4 are tricked well in this case thats like 8k they made lol..its worth the trouble...
@@michaelbrady4432 well since it has a premium as a collectible and not bullion the owner would want every penny its worth, look at what people pay for slabbed coins, 2X, 10X, 1000X face value or melt value becasue its in a plastic case that someone said its special...
Full depth xrf WILL detect tunston centres! The xray difraction patern of gold and tungsten are quite different. Cheap surface scaners aren't very good. Electrical frequency/conductance will also spot tungsten centres.
That’s crazy scary. Love your channel. Keep up the great work!
I like gold bars… from reputable dealers and companies.
I wouldn’t buy “Random Dragon Bar from Generic Company.”
But we’ll known stuff from real sites and this won’t be a problem, regardless of the product.
Buy from shady dealers and sites… and this will be a problem, regardless of what you are buying.
So would you not recommend the 10g spot gold offer from SD bullion right now?
If it's froM sD bullion it should be okay. But becauze of this, I stick to only coins (even if there is a slightly higher premium
I was wondering the same... 🤔
@@tronziebit spot for fractional gold must be a good deal! But I would check what they would buy it back from you for, for better understanding.
I would absolutely recommend it. It’s coming from a reputable manufacturer and dealer and has a holographic security feature. I haven’t seen many spot deals these past few years, I’m all over it.
I bought one gold bar and it's the only gold purchase that I really regret. I'm glad you were able to verify yours. I know I will *never* buy another one. Thanks!
Now you are glad of your purchase 😊
I would buy 1/4 or 1/10 coins from U.S. , Canada or South Africa. Those are most recognizeable. Also if gold ever shoots up to $5k. Its gonna be a little difficult to sell a 5oz bar.
I think people prefer fractional or at the highest 1oz gold. Not too many have a 10k trade to do, unless you need a used APC.
I've been on the fence past few years about buying gold bars. VERY GLAD that I watched this video first. I'll stick to gold coins, and sovereign at that.
Glad you didn't get scammed. Why did you buy the bar in the first place? All i could think of while watching the video is what a pain it will be for you when you try to sell it. I guess if you ever sell it, just sell to one of the big online dealers who often pay extra if it's in an assay and they have machines that test inside of the assay.
I believe it's more safe to purchase fractional gold in assay cards than full oz bars since they are less likely to be faked. I prefer the PAMP or Valcambi bars since they tend to be the most easily recognizable.
I’m other words you like to pay $500 more an ounce for gold.
I have a few Pamp Swiss gold bars from SD Bullion and Hero bullion. They have a QR code and a serial number on them. What do you think of those?
They can copy the QR code and serial number of a legit bar and stick it on the card too. Unless the owner is entered into the Database and you see your name there, I see this security feature more like false security.
Heraeus has some cool hologram on the back of the bar itself. Trust that more.
Fairly safe when you buy them from a trusted dealer. If you are getting them from someone who got them straight from the source then there's not as much room for a fake. I think the serial numbers are more for you to report if they're stolen tho, to try and recover if they end up at a pawn shop or whatever.
I only by from sd bullion I’ve never had an issue. I bought some 1 oz bars when it hit 1600
I thought the Sigma Pro could test the whole way through items up to 4mm since it tests from the top, and bottom?
Check his other video he ran it on a sigma pro it was weird.
@@randomnetwork1995 I doubt 100% of your viewer's comment is true @Silver Dragons especially the claims about the XRF reading. I picked up a "Pay Tribute to Tungsten Discoverer 1.5inch diameter Pure W Metal Coin" from eBay for $30-$40 to test on my Sigma Metalytics PMV (non-pro model). The high resistivity of Tungsten is the 'tell' when comparing Tungsten vs Gold. It reads around 5.5 for Tungsten compared to around 2.3 for .9999 Gold.
@@randomnetwork1995 Ya, I saw it. I have a Sigma Pro also just because it could penetrate top and bottom. Maybe I misunderstood. XRF should go all the way through also. That is why bullion vaults use it on loaf bars.
im kinda new but whats the point of the assay card if dealers dont trust them lol
Crazy that more people don't know about tungsten.
Doesn’t say much for the $2000 sigma.
The sigma machines are used by gold refiners.
@@jerryellis835 and? The sigma did not verify it was real. If it can’t be trusted, it’s not worth $2000. Seems stupid to use a machine that ultimately has to be verified by another.
Contact your closest refiner and ask them what they use. My comment is not for argument it is a fact.
@@jerryellis835 just cause they use it doesn’t mean it can be trusted 100%. You just saw the very machine you speak of not 100% verify a bar as real gold. That’s a fact.
@@KriswithaK4821 Actually it did. You just don't have a clue of what your talking about.
I just ordered a gold bar from SD bullion at spot. I assume SD Bullion would verify the gold that they sell.
Weight is also different between gold n tungsten. Thickness is also different..
I got a 10 gram gold bar in an assay and it somehow became loose in the assay, does that affect its value at all? I have not opened it.
Really surprised it's not serialized with a secure hash. If it was you could see if it was from a real bar. This would at least prevent scammers from producing fakes without first purchasing the real thing for the serial numbers to copy. If they reused a serial number the provider could warn you that the serial number was checked on a different date and it would be easy to spot a duplicated number
So, you sold the community the idea of using a pmv pro to validate gold, without even knowing that tungsten and gold have almost the exact same density? Isn't that the whole purpose of the pmv pro, to detect tungsten right through a bar or coin, not just the surface?
The middle cant be tested by XRF. XRF relies on light reflection there is no surface in the middle to reflect off. Thin plating can be detected, but thicker plating cant.
every model of XRF tells you how deep it can go in micrometers some are deeper than others. Are the manufacturers lying? 🤷🏽♂️
Depending on Xray energy, XRF only enters a few µm into gold, unpack that thing and smack it hard with a hammer, if it bends, it's gold, if it fractures, tungsten plate.
step 1. Weigh. Step 2. Measure. Step 3 XRF. Step 4 GVS Magnetic Test. If still concerned, remove from plastic and density test. Any reputable dealer will follow these steps and prove your bar out one way or another without bending, acid testing etc
How much drop in value I drop you looking at at this point it might be worth it to break the assay
If you wanted to sell that bar you need to take it to a place that can machine test it (like you did) without having to take it out of the plastic but would be also willing to buy the bar from you.
Don't go to a place that cannot machine test before buying from you.
You do definitely need to be careful with these packaged bars. As a beginner I'd avoid unless direct from the mint. The more experienced dealer / investor should not have any difficulties identifying real from fake. They go just fine though XRF and Sigma, and you can account for the packaging with ultrasound.
I would recommend buying something like this from the mint direct, or from a dealer that can show you exactly how they are testing it. If they're relying exclusively on the packaging, QR codes etc, then avoid!
In my opinion with the level of scams I will never buy gold in a package it's just where we are today
Why not send to have certified? I stay away from gold bars to risky for me the loss would hurt!
I don't understand this video. The poster said the bar fooled an xrf test so how can doing an xrf test on the bar in the video prove it is real?
But metalor bars have qr code on them which u can scan to verify if its real, so no issue there
What do you think about the 100g combibar for silver? It's premiums 90%-100% over spot, however APMEX 1oz bars currently are about 30% over spot WITHOUT the bartering ability of the combibar. Also if you buy 50g-100g plus of the GOLD combibar the premiums are negligible at best, 3%-7-13% 13% for 20g. So my question is are these premiums justified, & are combiars in silver & gold worth the price for investment purposes?
Gold combibars are fine. But I'd never buy a silver one. If you want fractional silver, just buy constitutional. A dime is about 2.22 grams.
@@esquared5064 Yeah but which ones cooler?
@@ebayaccount675 I don't think it will matter when your last meal was a cockroach and you find an actual, civilized, working town that you can trade in.
@@XtremeChiliPepper lol true
@@esquared5064 It seems the gold in combibars is already so thin it would be hard to fake with tungsten, do you think? My plan for fractional gold is combibars purchased from reliable, big name, online sellers. I have almost no interest in other gold bars or, other than perhaps having a single gold eagle for looking at, gold coins. My metals interest is almost exclusively in what I might sell or trade it for later in life.
I never, ever buy precious metals on eBay. I always buy from reputable gold and silver dealers direct.
Couldn't you, by your registration with the XRF scan, have enough of a proof for an easier time selling?
That would be true if he documented every step, and maybe got a notarized letter from the owner of the device.
@@therealhawkeyeii7888 yeah, but if the makers of this machine were smart, it would print out a picture of the bar, assay number and its verification result.
And how would anyone know the printout was not fake?
@@deltalima6703 by confirming with the company that did it...bearing a time/date stamp and notary/witness signatures
@@deltalima6703 good question!
The question is how does a tungsten bar plated in gold have less utility than a gold bar? Value is derived from utility. I already know the answer but it should give you some hints.
What kind of utility are you referring to? Gold's monetary utility is based on both its scarcity and universal recognition as a store of value and makes up far more of its value than its industrial utility. Which is why it retains its value far better than other equally useful metals like silver when the economy stutters and industry slows.
Investing in "Precious Metal" is fine, Easy to Buy. But it seems no one is talking about SELLING. I found it near impossible to sell during Good times, yet it is touted as an investment for the future. How and Where to Sell? Most won't buy without an actual Assay, yet opening the package is alleged to decrease the Value of the Bar? How is that? Seems to me on the face of it, "Precious Metals" is a scam.
So glad that it's real gold and yeah some bars you don't want to take out of the assay because it loses value
Tungsten is very brittle. Wont bend but may break if dropped on a hard surface
I only buy precious metals in assay from reputable companies and brands. I don't buy little known brands.
Wait what an XRF won't pick up tungsten in a coin? You'd expect a machine that expensive would do the job it was made for.
Hey Silver Dragon. What gold bars would you suggest to get for a real gold bar?
Tungsten will shatter with the slightest bend!
If you got it at a good price it's probably fake
Buy from unquestionably reputable sellers. Also, I don't buy for the look of the item, but, instead for its resale
marketability which leads back to only using reputable sellers. Buying on Ebay or the like is an additional risk I will not tolerate.
Our local coin shop has the big, expensive testing machine. One thing he said to me when I went to him with a question on a defective Vacambi one-ounce gold bar was, "NO MORE BARS!!" He must've said it a half-dozen times. I agree with him and will never purchase any again!
I'd just cut the metal out the freking card, measure the density by "wet weighing", ring it to hear the sound, try to measure the conductivity. I hate all these boxes and slabs that supposedly say something about authenticity, but really exist only to rip off your money. Metal should speak for itself.
Great video! I've actually been really considering 5g and 10g gold brittania bars a lot based on the reputation, beauty, and low premium. Any advice or reasons I should maybe reconsider?
I like the Britannia bars also. I was unaware of them until recently though. I’m looking forward to adding one to my stack.
No reason to reconsider, don’t forget these guys pump out 'content' for ad revenue. With little care for those watching.
Bill?
If you want pure metal at the lowest premium thats easily testable and identifiable, why would you buy a dragon in a card in the first place? Anything thats not plain metal is speculative and a different conversation. You get second market circulated or just eat the premium (remember what you paid it in and how long ago) and pop the card yourself. Its not 'losing value' if you're overpaying in the first place or have to do weeks of forensics to determine what you hope it *isn't*. Metal only stores value. If a $40 premium on something that isnt getting sold any time soon is going to make you lose sleep, then its not stacking, its investing. Investing presumes different goals, and PMs would take forever. Even coins appreciate at a snails pace when at all. A second market known 1z Au bar is great for stacking. A designer unknown bar in a card that makes it harder instead of easier to verify, not so much, eh?
I don't understand why the sigma metalytics pro would not give you an accurate result on the through test setting.(the second test, not the first). I have spoken with the tech support at Sigma and they have confirmed Tungsten will not pass the through test (the second test). SG tolerance between tungsten and gold is so close, the margin of error is to close to be definitive. But test 2 should fail. I own multiple machines and different sg devices. I test over a thousand items a year. Curious to see if anyone has different opinion on the sigma pro...... on the secondary test. I do understand if you cannot fit the bar under sensor 2 on the right side, you should rip it out without hesitation before buying. Please chime in on this, as it is new to me. Thanks for being so detailed!! Like your video's!
Also super happy you have the real deal. Tungsten is extremely difficult to bend. Also takes alot of pressure to drill. Anyways at least it's all good news. 👍👍
I have always been suspicious of assay cards - if I don’t have XRF access, I won’t buy anything I can’t touch.
Thanks so much for sharing. I only own two but after seeing this, I won't be buying any more! Better safe than sorry!
If you just buy from bullion dealers you would not have to worry even if second hand it is properly tested before they can sell. And i doubt anyone on ebay can beat a large bullion dealers price.
As far as 12-15 years ago . There are already exist stories of tungsten coated gold bar .
In the end you have to destroy the gold bar somehow to prove it when you sell it back to dealer who only want the gold .
But but... what about bars w/ security features? Also, aren't coins (those without security features) also subject to counterfeiting? I think the rational conclusion is to stick to modern bullion items w/ security features.
Question. Not familiar with the bend test. Would the bend you did return to straight straight if it was pure gold?
Gold has zero elasticity, so no.
Crossroad Coin in Vandalia Ohio has one of these XRF units. I used it a couple years ago on a kilo panda that I had. They charged me $10 and I just walked in, I didn't need to apply or fill out an application.
My panda ended being fake but when I got the composition report it said 15% rhodium. I was shocked. It was supposed to be a kilo of 9999 silver but if it was 15% rhodium then it would be worth more as a fake than it would have been worth it if was real. When I asked the guy laughed a little and said no, 15% of the plating was rhodium. Unfortunately the plating being only a couple micrograms didn't really have much rhodium in it. The good news is that the LCS I bought the panda from took it back.
Like you said, PAMP or something more popular - that's it if you're going to this assay case. But to your point - coins are the way to go.
If you open it I think you can do a ping test on it?
There is no added value from the plastic or the design. It's only worth spot price, if you manage to sell it to another collector for more you are effectively ripping them off.
Tungsten is slightly radioactive. Have you tried testing with a geiger counter?
So, after this headache, what would you recommend about the SD Bullion 10g gold bar sale at spot. Worth it or not?
I went ahead and purchased this sale one at SD Bullion since it's from reputable dealer and manufacturer, serialized, and uses kinebar technology for added high security features. Do some research and decide for yourself.
Do you guys trust that dealers like SD are testing what they sell enough?
@@jetfocus1152 I've ordered a decent amount from SD Bullion (probably more than any other online dealer) and have yet to have an issue. Also, I'm sure much of their products (especially those in large quantities) come directly from reputable mints and I'm sure whatever they buy elsewhere they test to verify, as their reputation depends on it. So, yes, i trust what i get from them.
@@christophergarland2266 good to hear. I would assume so but these days it’s hard to assume anything