if you do the same thing. outcome will be the same always in classic. every different decision you make changes the outcome. basically rng is predetermined.
Fun Fact! It's like this in the base games too!(or at least hgss) if you load save states on an emulator in a battle that you're trying to catch a pokemon in, and the fist ball breaks free, the 2nd ball shakes twice, and the third ball catches, it will always happen that way as long as you start your save state in the battle. the moves that the enemy pokemon uses will be the same every time also. really cool to see happen in a web browser fan game also! staying true to the base games while being more fun than the new ones :D
That's pretty neat! Never knew that about hgss. That wasn't in the actual games though, right? Just the emulator for when youre loading a state? That's awesome though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
@@BigSharkGaming good point. it could have been the emulators messing with the game. we may never know for sure unless nintendo releases the old games as software on the switch(idr what the apps are called but the ones with like punch out and stuff that you can save state) AFAIK the cart dump shouldn't have messed with the function of the code, so i dont think its an emulator thing, but as i said we really cant know for sure!
I'm very certain this is discoverable via the retry mechanic in the settings I want to say this is pretty obvious and if you've ever played ROMs or emulated games, it's pretty common knowledge that the Pokemon games are also seeded. However, it would be mean to exclude those that don't have as much experience and so this is a helpful video for that demographic. Also agree with the sentiment that hard battles are now converted into intriguing puzzles which may be more fun for some!
It's not true seeding, though. There's a bunch of seed variables that are altered by your active decisions and can be rescrambled based on other inputs. But I 100% agreed. This video was intended to be informative, and admittedly, I didn't know retry was built into the menu until after, and my brother told me. And also, I 100% agree that the puzzle element adds and entire level of intrigue and has been confirmed to be a intended game mechanic
I tried so hard to use this technique to catch a level 86 boss Spectrier, nothing I did ever worked to catch it though, no combination of pokeballs or moves or turn number, and i got so frustrated i eventually decided to just kill it It seems the game's rng builds off the most random thing of all: you!
Yes, different things you change results If you double kick, the enemy may swap If you Wing attack the enemy may crit It's a dynamic rng seed that has a web of IFs
its called rng seeds, everything is intertwined but none of it is predetermined till you do it, every move has a different outcome but it all depends on the order/how you do it. if you just refresh the rng seed doesnt change, thats why the same actions happen in the same exact moments n what not
Good work. Makes seeded runs very understandable for new players. I dont get why you get flamed in the comment section for literally using the retry option that can be enabled, just manually. Yes the game might not be intended to be played like this if you want the original experience. But most games have an easy option and just help to get you used to the mechanics. Doesn't every player that also enjoys the game matter more than your "hardcore gamer" ego?
Thank you! And yup, games are literally meant to be for fun. It's single player. Not intended to be competitive And was just trying to bring light on a discovery that may help others enjoy it more too
All rng use seeds. The only difference is when and how the seeds are generated and the algorithm that consumes the seed. Computers cannot do random by nature.
@@BigSharkGaming rng means random number generator. Random number generators are used in coding, but, unless you consider quantum computers or hrng (takes outside variables like heat or airsaturation into account), there is no way a rng can generate truly random numbers. Cause computers cannot produce randomness by themself. Meaning same input -> same output. With rngs we just don't see most of the inputs.
@deathmastersnikch4365 I know. Thatd why i said it's literally random It's based on a set of possibilities and weights of occurance But pokerogue is set on a mixed based on RNG and loose directory seeding, where the RNG seed can swing and sway within a series of IFs/ANDs/ORs. If you do A. You get A result If you do B. You get B result This is normal, but IF/AND/OR can change things, right? IF you do A, you get A result IF you do B, you get A OR B Etc. However, it's still a random dissertation dependant on inputs and pseudo predeterminations
@@BigSharkGaming I have no idea of the exact workings of the pokerogue rng. The issue is the decision taken in case an OR needs to be evaluated is also deterministic. And if i'd hazard a guess in poke rogue based on the seed. This is by definition not random but looks like it. Hence pseudo random.
@deathmastersnikch4365 I'm not disagreeing with that tho. I even said it is in fact seed based. But RNG by definition. Is random. If we're using RNG to define the game, then we are either mislabeling it, and need to not call it RNG or RNG Seed, or admit there has to be an element of randomization.
1. No 2. Yes they have. 3. This video was just a for fun thing that I discovered on my own about a game I was playing and wanted to showcase my findings on my form of public presentation
Don't know if "everyone" knows that As I've talked to people who did not know this. I wouldnt say pointless, but once you figure it out, it's figured out and doesn't need further investigation
@davidsantiago7808 The game itself is cheating, your ability to win or lose is predetermined. This is the exact reason I stopped playing in the first place, because the game is unironically rigged. I don't care if it's rigged for or against me, knowing that I won solely because the game predetermined that outcome is absolute bull
@@SOFUBIS buddy pokemon games has always been this way, with the exception of pvp. Go look up pokemon speedruns they use the predetermined outcomes of the game to perfectly frame by frame speedrun the game and trigger glitches. If you save scum like this in a game you can learn all of the outcomes just like this guy did, this isn't an intentional mechanic of the game because you are cheating. Your take os actually so brain dead because you wouldn't even experience this if you weren't cheating. Every run is unique and different.
The game uses seed generations. EVERYTHING is predetermined when you join the battle.
Yup, discovered that from this video
if you do the same thing. outcome will be the same always in classic. every different decision you make changes the outcome. basically rng is predetermined.
Yup, seems to be seed based
Which honestly, I kind of enjoy?
Takes the "shame" out of retry and makes it more of a puzzle to figure out.
Fun Fact! It's like this in the base games too!(or at least hgss) if you load save states on an emulator in a battle that you're trying to catch a pokemon in, and the fist ball breaks free, the 2nd ball shakes twice, and the third ball catches, it will always happen that way as long as you start your save state in the battle. the moves that the enemy pokemon uses will be the same every time also. really cool to see happen in a web browser fan game also! staying true to the base games while being more fun than the new ones :D
That's pretty neat! Never knew that about hgss. That wasn't in the actual games though, right? Just the emulator for when youre loading a state?
That's awesome though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
@@BigSharkGaming good point. it could have been the emulators messing with the game. we may never know for sure unless nintendo releases the old games as software on the switch(idr what the apps are called but the ones with like punch out and stuff that you can save state)
AFAIK the cart dump shouldn't have messed with the function of the code, so i dont think its an emulator thing, but as i said we really cant know for sure!
I'm very certain this is discoverable via the retry mechanic in the settings
I want to say this is pretty obvious and if you've ever played ROMs or emulated games, it's pretty common knowledge that the Pokemon games are also seeded.
However, it would be mean to exclude those that don't have as much experience and so this is a helpful video for that demographic.
Also agree with the sentiment that hard battles are now converted into intriguing puzzles which may be more fun for some!
It's not true seeding, though. There's a bunch of seed variables that are altered by your active decisions and can be rescrambled based on other inputs.
But I 100% agreed. This video was intended to be informative, and admittedly, I didn't know retry was built into the menu until after, and my brother told me.
And also, I 100% agree that the puzzle element adds and entire level of intrigue and has been confirmed to be a intended game mechanic
I tried so hard to use this technique to catch a level 86 boss Spectrier, nothing I did ever worked to catch it though, no combination of pokeballs or moves or turn number, and i got so frustrated i eventually decided to just kill it
It seems the game's rng builds off the most random thing of all: you!
Yes, different things you change results
If you double kick, the enemy may swap
If you Wing attack the enemy may crit
It's a dynamic rng seed that has a web of IFs
This is something I do as well in my classic runs. The AI usually does the same thing, thus you can change your strategy in order to win
Yup! 100%
Turns luck into puzzle
its called rng seeds, everything is intertwined but none of it is predetermined till you do it, every move has a different outcome but it all depends on the order/how you do it. if you just refresh the rng seed doesnt change, thats why the same actions happen in the same exact moments n what not
also, its not cheating, its more of a feature then an exploit atp
Yup discovered that from this video. And then found there's actually a retry setting in the menu. Which I do enjoy the fact it's rng seed.
@@moon-gv4ol yeah once I saw retry was built into the menu I realized it's intended gameplay feature.
@@BigSharkGaming sorry if i sounded hostile or said sum u already said in the video, i never finished it 😭all love
@moon-gv4ol haha you're all good! No offense taken. I posted on the internet expecting a mix bag or responses. I don't take anything as hostile :)
Good work. Makes seeded runs very understandable for new players.
I dont get why you get flamed in the comment section for literally using the retry option that can be enabled, just manually.
Yes the game might not be intended to be played like this if you want the original experience. But most games have an easy option and just help to get you used to the mechanics.
Doesn't every player that also enjoys the game matter more than your "hardcore gamer" ego?
Thank you!
And yup, games are literally meant to be for fun. It's single player. Not intended to be competitive
And was just trying to bring light on a discovery that may help others enjoy it more too
All rng use seeds. The only difference is when and how the seeds are generated and the algorithm that consumes the seed.
Computers cannot do random by nature.
Well, that's not necessarily true because RNG is literally random.
@@BigSharkGaming rng means random number generator.
Random number generators are used in coding, but, unless you consider quantum computers or hrng (takes outside variables like heat or airsaturation into account), there is no way a rng can generate truly random numbers. Cause computers cannot produce randomness by themself.
Meaning same input -> same output. With rngs we just don't see most of the inputs.
@deathmastersnikch4365
I know. Thatd why i said it's literally random
It's based on a set of possibilities and weights of occurance
But pokerogue is set on a mixed based on RNG and loose directory seeding, where the RNG seed can swing and sway within a series of IFs/ANDs/ORs.
If you do A. You get A result
If you do B. You get B result
This is normal, but IF/AND/OR can change things, right?
IF you do A, you get A result
IF you do B, you get A OR B
Etc.
However, it's still a random dissertation dependant on inputs and pseudo predeterminations
@@BigSharkGaming I have no idea of the exact workings of the pokerogue rng.
The issue is the decision taken in case an OR needs to be evaluated is also deterministic. And if i'd hazard a guess in poke rogue based on the seed.
This is by definition not random but looks like it. Hence pseudo random.
@deathmastersnikch4365 I'm not disagreeing with that tho. I even said it is in fact seed based. But RNG by definition. Is random.
If we're using RNG to define the game, then we are either mislabeling it, and need to not call it RNG or RNG Seed, or admit there has to be an element of randomization.
Were you born yesterday my guy? Games have been doing this since 1987 💀
1. No
2. Yes they have.
3. This video was just a for fun thing that I discovered on my own about a game I was playing and wanted to showcase my findings on my form of public presentation
Everybody knows that lol but even when fighting with Ivy i never reload more than 2 times because after 3 fights its just pointless xD
Don't know if "everyone" knows that
As I've talked to people who did not know this.
I wouldnt say pointless, but once you figure it out, it's figured out and doesn't need further investigation
lame
It's not really. It adds an element I guess
Just don't cheat and it won't be lame lmao.
@davidsantiago7808 The game itself is cheating, your ability to win or lose is predetermined. This is the exact reason I stopped playing in the first place, because the game is unironically rigged. I don't care if it's rigged for or against me, knowing that I won solely because the game predetermined that outcome is absolute bull
@@SOFUBIS buddy pokemon games has always been this way, with the exception of pvp. Go look up pokemon speedruns they use the predetermined outcomes of the game to perfectly frame by frame speedrun the game and trigger glitches.
If you save scum like this in a game you can learn all of the outcomes just like this guy did, this isn't an intentional mechanic of the game because you are cheating.
Your take os actually so brain dead because you wouldn't even experience this if you weren't cheating. Every run is unique and different.
@davidsantiago7808 I don't think retrying or refreshing is cheater tbh. Especially with retry being built into the menu