Sea the Stars, he was the greatest i have seen in 40 odd years of watching, Peintre Celebre, Treve and Montjeu were also mighty performances in the arc, Dancing Brave prior to the years listed was one of the great performances also to win the arc, the list is endless when it comes to a race that for me eclipses the Epsom Derby by a fraction because of the all age group.
All phenomenal! And while Peintre Celebre smashed the record on firm ground, his win was the most eye catching, so I agree he is the best since 1989. Hellisio was magnificent, probably the best front running performance I've seen over 1m4f. Sea The Stars seemed capable of anything, and Zarkava was very similar. I feel Sakhee has been underrated and almost forgot about. He was just fractions away from becoming an all-time great when he bumped into a legend of the Dirt in Tiznow. And what can I say about El Condor Pasa vs Montjeu! That was a epic clash of Champions and one we haven't seen in years. El Condor Pasa was outstanding in Japan and then saved his best til last in the Arc. Unfortunately, on the heavy ground, he happened to bump into an extraordinary colt in Montjeu and still fought bravely once headed. I rate them as good as eachother and they probably had the highest quality duel seen in the Arc.
Dancing brave,was mighty impressive winning the arc,,,it would have taken a mighty horse to dethrone him,,plus should have walked the derby,,bar for rubbish jockey,,they both won from what you might think,,impossible positions
@@markllewellyn2824 they where both world class horses you would have got any price you want in running for them. For me it's sea the stars I still don't think he has ever got the credit he deserved he might have only won his races by no more than 2 lengths but was value for a lot further. 2 champions
Great selection and pretty much mirrors my own racing experiences (first went to the Arc in 1989, Carroll House). I am going again this year. Before I watched this and knew the order, my brother asked me what I thought was the best I had seen, and without hesitation I said Peintre Celebre. Plenty will cite others, but I guess you had to be there to really appreciate how awesome it was.
Wow, Peintre Celebre nearly took off at the final furlong! Montjeu showed absolute strength and stamina coming back at the front runner. Sea The Stars powered through a congested field like they weren't even there. Amazing races
I remember Sea The Stars winning in 2009. His dam, Urban Sea won the 'Arc' in 1993. The 'Arc' is a high class race and it is as big as the 'Epsom Derby' or the newly reformed 'Champion Stakes' at Ascot.
I have followed the race from 1972. I loved the Brave and adored STS but for me Peintre Celebre was the most devastating performance in the race in my lifetime. Hope to see another this weekend. Well picked. Isn't CZcams great.
To be honest that ain't even a race. Never ever have I wanted to see breeders cup never the charm of British Racing is far more than any other Racing. Period
@@harpalchauhan428 , Mick Kinane sang that same tune on Giant's Causeway the year prior at Churchill Downs, just narrowly getting nipped by Tiznow in the BC Classic. That said, what Sakhee nearly accomplished in 2001 at Belmont was almost unbelievable. Taking what IMO is the toughest middle distance turf race in the world and a month later missing by a whisker winning what is arguably one of the toughest middle distance conventional dirt races in the sport. Speaks to how tough Tiznow really was though, because everyone remembers what tough horses Giant's Causeway and Sakhee both were.
Totally agree, he was virtually ignored in the betting and the build-up and gubbed the lot of them comfortably. Really good performance and a really good horse too.
NDRonin 1401 She was a Great filly..But No Horse had that Burst of Speed that the Brave Had...To Quicken in a Slowly Run guineas to Rout a Sprint Champion that year..To Slaughtering the Older Horses..To Beating the Greatest Arc Field with an Awesome Turn of Foot..And the Brave never raced beyond 3...Unlike Frankel & others...Watch theses Arc winners Finish & Watch Dancing Braves Finish...Different Class Colt...Oh, 6,7,8,9,10 Also Dancing Brave...
All superb horses, but lammtara ran 4 times won all of them its first run I think was the English derby then I think it went to the arc and won it unbelievable,I might have my facts wrong but it doesn't matter the fact is it was a fantastic horse RIP Walter Swinburn brilliant jockey sadly missed 👍👍👍👍big thumbs up from Scotland
Dancing brave 86 easily the best was in 10th place with 200m to go. Then under the brilliant Pat Eddery he blitzed the field with the fastest recorded time for the last 200m of a race to beat a top class field.
El condor pasa & Sakhee. Between 1995 and 2016, considering the handicap and the difference in finish, I think these two were the only ones who were particularly strong. Despite their 59.5 kilogram weight handicap, they showed their strength. El Condor Pasa was particularly unlucky. Because there was Montjeu.
awesome, though personally i'd have Zarkava 2nd and Sea The Stars 1st :) maybe even the other way round... simply because they were both in similar situations coming into the straight and have to do a lot of weaving to find the gaps! plus i loved Zarkava for being the only girl in the race :')
That's a fair question but Montjeu was hampered by injury in his last few races and wasn't the same as 12 months earlier. Sinndar's was a stronger Arc but look at Montjeu's win and see how far he and ECP are ahead of the 3rd who in turn is way ahead of the 4th. I was there for both those races and Montjeu's win was one of the very best. Both were great horses but for me I'd pick a 100% Monty over Sinndar but it would be close.
great stuff Sea the Stars was great Zarkava likewise pentre celebre quicked amazingly Sakhee left the field for dead Montjeu practically won race on the bridle Dalakhani was one of the biggest certain arc winners i have seen go to post.
Sinndar and Sakhee were under-rated, what a great derby they ran in .. also, I think Peintre Celebre was sthing special , some gr8 horses in behind and he really whizzed away
Sakhee was some animal he smashed the best in Europe by some way in 2001 shame he got a injury in America otherwise he would have won the Dubai world cup the next season
+Antoine Godbille DB beat the most talented ARC ever assembled . Other winners down the years have won impressively , but beat donkeys. Nothing like the field DB beat
+999LDS Dancing Brave did not beat the best Arc field ever assembled. The 86 Arc field was very deep, but Sea Bird defeated arguably the most talented field ever assembled for a flat race period - in the 65 Arc: French Derby winner Reliance, Fr Oaks winner Blabla, Diatome who later won the DC Int, US champion 3yo Tom Rolfe, Irish Derby and King George winner Meadow Court, and Russian champion Aniline. Sea Bird destroyed this field. Depending on whether you are considering the best horses that have ever won the Arc, or the single best performances in that specific race, the list would be slightly different.
My favorite was Lammtarra. 4-runs, 4 wins. I dunno if he had soundness issues but they should've kept him in training... Actually a lot of them. Zarkava in particular, why retire at 3 - before they'd reached their peak????
The problem with STS is that his raw form was not that of an all-time great. But he produced that form over and over again and always looked as though there was plenty more in the tank. That makes him a difficult horse to assess. On the other hand, Peintre Celebre was absolutely flat out to win his Arc, but the bare form of that performance is better than anything STS achieved. So, yes, I grudgingly agree with this assessment.
She was the one to say "screw them all" and then breaking the track record indeed. But she did it in 2011 so there's no way she could be listed on this video.
Yep, you're probably right, Sea Bird was one of the greatest horses of all time, but then so was Ribot. It's a pity American horses didn't really run much in it, for me Secretariat was an exceptional horse.
99LDS I Could not agree more...The top 6 or 7 in Dancing Braves Arc would have won most of the subsequent Arcs Since..Dancing Brave could run a last furlong in 10 seconds..That's astounding & nothing can live with that..Not even Frankel & other greats..
For me the top 3 are wrong it should read 3 1 2 for me (not named any winners so wont spoil your viewing). Your 3rd had a much tougher season than the other 2 and yet still prevailed bar Dancing Brave no 3 for me is simply the best since Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef. Oh and congratulations great idea these top 10s I hope they stir plenty of debate.
Peintre Celebre was rightfully #1. The best Arc performance I've seen and no doubt the world didn't see the best of this horse due to a career ending injury. Sea The Stars, meh, nothing special. Start awarding some decent prizemoney for your races and you might see some of our Aussie horses over there to kick your arses just like we did with So You Think and Black Caviar.
Adrian Mills ... don't make me laugh.. black caviar scrambled home ( and I don't want to hear excuses please) and so you think wudnt even be in the top 5 of the horses Aidan o Brien has trained.. sure o Brien even sends over some his OK horses (highland reel) and spanks your bums.. !!!!
People don't seem to understand "Top 10 Arc de Triomphe winners" means that. It doesn't mean a look at their career. Sea The Stars wasn't the most impressive winner of the race in this period. Chimes At Midnight must one of very few horses to run in the Arc and the Champion Hurdle although he was equally terrible in both, One of his four career wins in 60 races was a Class 7 at Kempton seven years after his last win.
+Tim Gregory Yes, in the first dirt race of his life. I thought Sakhee did remarkably well in the dirt Classic considering he had just dominated in the world's premiere turf race less than a month prior. Not to take anything away from Tiznow, one of the gutsiest horses ever.
***** If you go su timeform and you open the site of the JOCKEY you will see that to SEA BIRD rate is 145 SECRETARIAT 144 and RIBOT and brigadier GERAR 143...CIAO
Sea the Stars, he was the greatest i have seen in 40 odd years of watching, Peintre Celebre, Treve and Montjeu were also mighty performances in the arc, Dancing Brave prior to the years listed was one of the great performances also to win the arc, the list is endless when it comes to a race that for me eclipses the Epsom Derby by a fraction because of the all age group.
My own favourite came from before your list started. Dancing Brave....probably the most glamorous and dashing horse of all.
seathestars-toughest trip greatest ride perfection in equine form!
All phenomenal! And while Peintre Celebre smashed the record on firm ground, his win was the most eye catching, so I agree he is the best since 1989. Hellisio was magnificent, probably the best front running performance I've seen over 1m4f. Sea The Stars seemed capable of anything, and Zarkava was very similar. I feel Sakhee has been underrated and almost forgot about. He was just fractions away from becoming an all-time great when he bumped into a legend of the Dirt in Tiznow.
And what can I say about El Condor Pasa vs Montjeu! That was a epic clash of Champions and one we haven't seen in years. El Condor Pasa was outstanding in Japan and then saved his best til last in the Arc. Unfortunately, on the heavy ground, he happened to bump into an extraordinary colt in Montjeu and still fought bravely once headed. I rate them as good as eachother and they probably had the highest quality duel seen in the Arc.
Have i just woken up in another planet. Dancing brave greatest arc line up ever. Period
Just made a comment, Dancing Brave by a country mile.. 👍
SEABIRD THE BEST HORSE EVER YOU FOOL
@@paulregan2881 NEVER HEAR OF SEABIRD YOU AMADAN
See the stars,looked in an impossible place,,,to win the race,,,,he must have had wings to win,,,,what a horse,,,1 of the greats,,,
The greatest
Dancing brave,was mighty impressive winning the arc,,,it would have taken a mighty horse to dethrone him,,plus should have walked the derby,,bar for rubbish jockey,,they both won from what you might think,,impossible positions
@@markllewellyn2824 they where both world class horses you would have got any price you want in running for them. For me it's sea the stars I still don't think he has ever got the credit he deserved he might have only won his races by no more than 2 lengths but was value for a lot further. 2 champions
Great selection and pretty much mirrors my own racing experiences (first went to the Arc in 1989, Carroll House). I am going again this year. Before I watched this and knew the order, my brother asked me what I thought was the best I had seen, and without hesitation I said Peintre Celebre. Plenty will cite others, but I guess you had to be there to really appreciate how awesome it was.
NONE of these would have lived with Dancing Brave in 1986 ..Different Class..
Thanks for all these top 10`s Arazi24
Wow, Peintre Celebre nearly took off at the final furlong! Montjeu showed absolute strength and stamina coming back at the front runner. Sea The Stars powered through a congested field like they weren't even there. Amazing races
I remember Sea The Stars winning in 2009. His dam, Urban Sea won the 'Arc' in 1993. The 'Arc' is a high class race and it is as big as the 'Epsom Derby' or the newly reformed 'Champion Stakes' at Ascot.
I have followed the race from 1972. I loved the Brave and adored STS but for me Peintre Celebre was the most devastating performance in the race in my lifetime. Hope to see another this weekend. Well picked. Isn't CZcams great.
Greatest Arc winner post war has to be Dancing Brave, It was such a great field
+David Hurley the 65 field??
Sea The Stars .... Horse of a lifetime .. Won everything there is to be won ... starting with derby and Guinness double :)
His owner thought so too
thats why he never won a breeders cup classic!
To be honest that ain't even a race. Never ever have I wanted to see breeders cup never the charm of British Racing is far more than any other Racing. Period
The greatest of my live time don't care what the ratings show he is better than Frankel
Don't rate the breeders cup mate . Personal opinion I prefer horse racing in Europe compared to the states.
@@tannuj0007 agree if the drugs where out of the USA racing would be better
Dancing Brave 86 hands down best arc winner imo... and the ratings concur. Sts close 2nd. Great to see sauve dancer again there... Very stylish winner
Impressive win by sakhee.,.
Absolutely pissed it!!!!
This is the arc n battered a great field
And very unlucky for frankie to lose on the wire to the great tiznow in breeders cup classic
@@harpalchauhan428 , Mick Kinane sang that same tune on Giant's Causeway the year prior at Churchill Downs, just narrowly getting nipped by Tiznow in the BC Classic. That said, what Sakhee nearly accomplished in 2001 at Belmont was almost unbelievable. Taking what IMO is the toughest middle distance turf race in the world and a month later missing by a whisker winning what is arguably one of the toughest middle distance conventional dirt races in the sport. Speaks to how tough Tiznow really was though, because everyone remembers what tough horses Giant's Causeway and Sakhee both were.
I've always like Helissios Arc. It's very rare to see a horse go Wire to Wire and pull away like that especially in the Arc.
Danedream, not shown here, is the most beautiful underdog story ever.
Totally agree, he was virtually ignored in the betting and the build-up and gubbed the lot of them comfortably. Really good performance and a really good horse too.
NDRonin 1401
She was a Great filly..But No Horse had that Burst of Speed that the Brave Had...To Quicken in a Slowly Run guineas to Rout a Sprint Champion that year..To Slaughtering the Older Horses..To Beating the Greatest Arc Field with an Awesome Turn of Foot..And the Brave never raced beyond 3...Unlike Frankel & others...Watch theses Arc winners Finish & Watch Dancing Braves Finish...Different Class Colt...Oh, 6,7,8,9,10 Also Dancing Brave...
1999 Montjeu still gives me goosebumps,how the fuck did he catch that Japanese horse!!!
All superb horses, but lammtara ran 4 times won all of them its first run I think was the English derby then I think it went to the arc and won it unbelievable,I might have my facts wrong but it doesn't matter the fact is it was a fantastic horse RIP Walter Swinburn brilliant jockey sadly missed 👍👍👍👍big thumbs up from Scotland
Peintre Celebre best horse ive ever seen,savage turn of foot
They are all brilliant
@147ard I believe that Dancing Brave won the Arc in 1986 which is outside this time frame.
Sea the Stars....No1 by 15 lenghts!!!!
Great ride by piggott on enable
Sea the Stars should have been NO.1
dancing brave is the best arc winner since sea bird and i would agree that peintre celebre is a worthy winner in this choice
Dancing brave 86 easily the best was in 10th place with 200m to go.
Then under the brilliant Pat Eddery he blitzed the field with the fastest recorded time for the last 200m of a race to beat a top class field.
Sea The Stars 1 Peintre Celebre 2 Zarkava 3.
A good list
Sea the stars number 1 the greatest
After SEABIRD SECRETARIAT RIBOT
***** iF YOU GO SO TIMEFORM SPECIALLY ON THE SITE OF THE JOCKEY THIS IS THE RANGE SEA BIRD 145 SECRETERIAT 144 RIBOT AND BRIGADIER GERARD 143...ciao
Do you have any of Arazi's races you can post?
2011 Danedream from Germany broke the Record from Place 1
Yeah, Peter O'Sullevan just assumed that Lammtarra would be swallowed up, and had been swallowed up.
@daeuri Yes i know that, i was implying where would Dancing brave fit into this top ten if it was from 86- 2010.
El condor pasa & Sakhee.
Between 1995 and 2016, considering the handicap and the difference in finish, I think these two were the only ones who were particularly strong. Despite their 59.5 kilogram weight handicap, they showed their strength.
El Condor Pasa was particularly unlucky. Because there was Montjeu.
awesome, though personally i'd have Zarkava 2nd and Sea The Stars 1st :) maybe even the other way round... simply because they were both in similar situations coming into the straight and have to do a lot of weaving to find the gaps! plus i loved Zarkava for being the only girl in the race :')
Alleged is the best ever for me.
That's a fair question but Montjeu was hampered by injury in his last few races and wasn't the same as 12 months earlier. Sinndar's was a stronger Arc but look at Montjeu's win and see how far he and ECP are ahead of the 3rd who in turn is way ahead of the 4th. I was there for both those races and Montjeu's win was one of the very best. Both were great horses but for me I'd pick a 100% Monty over Sinndar but it would be close.
Good list
Helissio for me was the best winner. He beat an amazing field with pellier doing cartwheels.
Every pole a winning one
Sea the Stars, "he is a champion"
great stuff Sea the Stars was great Zarkava likewise pentre celebre quicked amazingly
Sakhee left the field for dead Montjeu practically won race on the bridle Dalakhani was one of the biggest certain arc winners i have seen go to post.
Sinndar and Sakhee were under-rated, what a great derby they ran in .. also, I think Peintre Celebre was sthing special , some gr8 horses in behind and he really whizzed away
Sakhee was some animal he smashed the best in Europe by some way in 2001 shame he got a injury in America otherwise he would have won the Dubai world cup the next season
Best top 5 winners of the Arc of all time.
1. Dancing Brave
2. Dancing Brave
3. Dancing Brave
4. Dancing Brave
5. Dancing Brave
+999LDS SEABIRD-RIBOT SORRY
+999LDS i agree! dancing brave better than bering better than the fourth aga khan!what a wonderful arc de triomphe!
Ah come on where's fucking danedream he was awesome
+Antoine Godbille DB beat the most talented ARC ever assembled . Other winners down the years have won impressively , but beat donkeys. Nothing like the field DB beat
+999LDS Dancing Brave did not beat the best Arc field ever assembled. The 86 Arc field was very deep, but Sea Bird defeated arguably the most talented field ever assembled for a flat race period - in the 65 Arc: French Derby winner Reliance, Fr Oaks winner Blabla, Diatome who later won the DC Int, US champion 3yo Tom Rolfe, Irish Derby and King George winner Meadow Court, and Russian champion Aniline. Sea Bird destroyed this field. Depending on whether you are considering the best horses that have ever won the Arc, or the single best performances in that specific race, the list would be slightly different.
Just saw Michael Kinane won in 1989, 1999. 2009...consistent...lol
Pentre celebre,my number one as well.
Sea the stars...
Good selection but personaly I'd have Sea The Stars no.1
Great video here, i agree with the top 3, i know it's from 1989 but where do you think Dancing Brave would fit into this top 10.
No1👍
Sea the stars - no1
Do you have any European race footage of Arazi?
czcams.com/video/mBugH7ZApRw/video.html
before the juvenile
and
czcams.com/video/NF6zB2p_eM8/video.html
back from the KD and knee problem
Sea the stars greatest beat a top field easily even with all went wrong for hin
He'd be a good second to Dancing Brave in 1986..
1.Dancing Brave...
2.Lamtarra...
3.Sea the Stars...
Good lits and thanks. Why does this start in 1989? Unfortunately the list misses the best Arc of all time with the best winner - Dancing Brave in 1986
she is the fastest horse ever, she never lose❤🐎
1-dancing brave
2-ribot
3-sea bird
4-mill reef
5-alleged
My favorite was Lammtarra. 4-runs, 4 wins. I dunno if he had soundness issues but they should've kept him in training... Actually a lot of them. Zarkava in particular, why retire at 3 - before they'd reached their peak????
one of the world's great races.
I thought see the stars was a cert I was right 👍
Sea the Stars No 1 all day long...
Where the he'll was hurricane run and Dylan thomas
1 Sea the Stars
2 Sea Bird
3 Vaguely Noble
4 Mill Reef
5 Alleged
Update this to best rides up to 2017 and put Frankie and Golden Horn as No1
1989-2011
Red rum pissed it
Clip 9 poor commentary Dettori was never headed.Sea The Stars excellent win and excellent commentary.
The problem with STS is that his raw form was not that of an all-time great. But he produced that form over and over again and always looked as though there was plenty more in the tank. That makes him a difficult horse to assess. On the other hand, Peintre Celebre was absolutely flat out to win his Arc, but the bare form of that performance is better than anything STS achieved. So, yes, I grudgingly agree with this assessment.
STS had another 2 gears left,kinase reckons he never hit full reserves😎😎💪💪
Rubbish. All out to beat RVW and only did do as Kinane clipped RVW as he was going to go past.
Pientre Célèbre the best 1mile 4furlong horse of its generation
Danedream...
She was the one to say "screw them all" and then breaking the track record indeed. But she did it in 2011 so there's no way she could be listed on this video.
the best that never won this race, and should have done, User Friendly in 1993
Sea the Stars was the best horse to win the Arc since Dancing Brave - but not the best actual Arc winner.
As good as these ten are, none of them would hold a candle to Sea Bird the 1965 winner, but of course that is my opinion ( and also Timeforms)
Yep, you're probably right, Sea Bird was one of the greatest horses of all time, but then so was Ribot. It's a pity American horses didn't really run much in it, for me Secretariat was an exceptional horse.
nice upload but arbritary ranking. Dancing Brave - first to last in the quickest final furlong in race to rout a high class field
86
Zarkava 😍😍😍😍
99LDS I Could not agree more...The top 6 or 7 in Dancing Braves Arc would have won most of the subsequent Arcs Since..Dancing Brave could run a last furlong in 10 seconds..That's astounding & nothing can live with that..Not even Frankel & other greats..
Zarkava would have smoked him
sea the stars
🇯🇵勝ちたい
For me the top 3 are wrong it should read 3 1 2 for me (not named any winners so wont spoil your viewing). Your 3rd had a much tougher season than the other 2 and yet still prevailed bar Dancing Brave no 3 for me is simply the best since Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef. Oh and congratulations great idea these top 10s I hope they stir plenty of debate.
Spot on number 1 Arazi.Dancing Brave would have beaten the other 9,but even he would have struggled to beat Peintre Celebre
Would have Suave Dancer higher than Sakhee Zarkava, and STS higher than Montjeu. Great list though, could watch all day.
Zarkava number one!
Sea Bird-Secretariat-Ribot....
Peintre Celebre was rightfully #1. The best Arc performance I've seen and no doubt the world didn't see the best of this horse due to a career ending injury.
Sea The Stars, meh, nothing special.
Start awarding some decent prizemoney for your races and you might see some of our Aussie horses over there to kick your arses just like we did with So You Think and Black Caviar.
Adrian Mills ... don't make me laugh.. black caviar scrambled home ( and I don't want to hear excuses please) and so you think wudnt even be in the top 5 of the horses Aidan o Brien has trained.. sure o Brien even sends over some his OK horses (highland reel) and spanks your bums.. !!!!
Stupid comment but imagine all these 10 winners in one race!!!!
Dancing Brave was a great Arc winner but Sea Bird definitely and Mill Reef possibly would have beaten him I thin.
Lammtarra was never headed by Freedom Cry ffs.
No 1 is justified
He built super consistent horses
Sea Bird II was the greatest racehorse of them all, nothing compares to him.
Sea Bird
Ribot
Dancing Brave
Mill Reef
Peintre Celebre
Totally agree with you.
RIBOT could have but you never know:P
I obviously don't agree with the order and also felt the last call was the poorest among all.
Was 86 but the DB sectionals were superior to all of this lot. PC even thojh looked amazing sectionally he was not that great.
People don't seem to understand "Top 10 Arc de Triomphe winners" means that. It doesn't mean a look at their career. Sea The Stars wasn't the most impressive winner of the race in this period. Chimes At Midnight must one of very few horses to run in the Arc and the Champion Hurdle although he was equally terrible in both, One of his four career wins in 60 races was a Class 7 at Kempton seven years after his last win.
danedream
Put all 10 winners in their peak in a race then one will know!!!
Otherwise
Mere speculation
Montjeu is the strongest!
Didn't Sakhee lose to Tiznow? Nobody's going to bring this up? Sorry, just an ignorant American here.
+Tim Gregory Yes, in the first dirt race of his life. I thought Sakhee did remarkably well in the dirt Classic considering he had just dominated in the world's premiere turf race less than a month prior. Not to take anything away from Tiznow, one of the gutsiest horses ever.
Sakhee lost a few times!
the 3 best horses of the century are Sea Bird-Secretariat and Ribot
***** If you go su timeform and you open the site of the JOCKEY you will see that to SEA BIRD rate is 145 SECRETARIAT 144 and RIBOT and brigadier GERAR 143...CIAO
***** The best horse of the XXI century...
+guido greco frankel mate
nijinsky???? jesus where do some of you get your opinions from it seriously worrys me a lot!
Go to TIMEFORM and see the opinion of the JOKEY..ciao