This exact kind of pumping of the image was mentioned in the text books at school when we learned to fix these things. I recognized the problem at once you had tried to clean the heads.
@@12voltvids yes. :) In fact when I did my test after apprenticeship and got my degree it was a CRT tv and a VCR I got to work on. Sadly just a VHS deck. What they did was put a tape on the head used for tracking. lol. Strangely enough only 2 of us out of 12 made it to get the degree. Just show you can’t read your way to electronics. There must be an understanding of what make this and that happen.
Used to have one of those, even had the service manual. Our had a similar issue as yours. Playback was flickering but recording was just fine. Had stopped using it around 2009.…
I have my Sony SLHF450 and it works great without any problems. I got it off of eBay last year when I first got it, it had a bad picture since the video head was dirty, but I checked and cleaned the heads and the picture looks perfect.
It's hard to believe Sony used these bad Sanyo caps on their 1981 model, and after that huge failure rate, they still insisted on using them on their 1988 model. What were they thinking? My 1983 SL-T30 and T50 also have one or two of them in the luminance/video circuit but playback and recording looks fine so I haven't touched them yet.
For a reason we don't unknown most Sanyo electronics come defected or fail after some time, I remember to saw a documentary in 90's about SANYO manufacture and assembly lines in Japan and when investigators found was really huge logistic problems on the assembly line, can't remember the details, but literally employees had to assembly everything from scratch on their stage it was ineffective procedure to provide quality manufacture goods, Every stage was like a miniature parts' shop, electronics everywhere and usually employees had to assembly different stuff at same stage, Similar as you see today in China but with smaller space and fewer people working with similar amount of goods output. It was insane. If I remember well was a early 90s documentary, I came to assume it was the same or more basic procedures in the 80's, can't imagine how capacitors and IC's manufacturing procedures should be at SANYO that time.
Yup sanyo was known for their cheap and shoddy electronics. Why do you think their betamax unloaded the tape when you pressed stop? Because they used the same microcontroller that was used on their vhs machines. Yet some defend sanyo. They were garbage as were their components.
@@12voltvids Absolutely, I still have a Sanyo portable cassette player you won't believe but also had to replace their Sanyo capacitors on it due to issues with motor stability, I replaced then with brand new capacitors and work like new. I have a SL HF900 I will take a look at those capacitors more closely, I'm planning to replace the old 10000uf Elna capacitors on power supply. They start looking slightly swallowed. STK regulator had been replaced, but still not change anything on the power unit yet.
Really interesting, thank you for this vid! I picked up 6 SL-HF400/600's and they all seem to pulse very similar to yours timing wise, except I am not having any visible glitching. I assumed that's just how this model was since they all do it, but now I'm wondering if they all have bad caps in the servo circuit or maybe those little yellow caps. hmm
@ilanuriel2573 sanyo did supply some average caps around 1982, notoriously the PAL sl-c6 equivalent as well. And I suppose Daves done heaps of these SL-HFs to even (say blindfolded) without a manual figure where the servo circiut would roughly be then track it down.
It it didn't have those known bad sanyo caps i would have rocked some pots. However after having changed thousands of them on brand new machines that had not even made it to the store for sale yet back in 82/83 when I worked for Sony, when I spot them I am on high alert. That was the symptom back in the day with servos that would not lock up just like it was on this one so seeing the symptom and seeing those blue Samuel the illumined solid caps That was the symptom back in the day with servos that would not lock up just like it was on this one so seeing the symptom and seeing those blue sanyo aluminum solid caps, They just had to go and as you saw fixed the problem
Great 👍 Edit: I would assume even DC powered lights would flash, (using AC and a rectifier to convert to DC) but only if they're not filtered, correct? Or do they behave differently? Interesting strobe effect, if that's what it is called.
Led do slightly, but its more of a fade between the power pulses. Fluorescent on the other hand Is a pulse light source. They light up during the power cycle and extinguish completely during the phase reversal. So you get the strobe effect. It only works with magnetic ballast. Early compact fluorescent had magnetic ballast. Then they went I high frequency electronic ballast. Those don't work.
@@12voltvids The video codecs YT uses getting worse and worse, they are not optimised for old CPUs. Once I had a Core2Duo E7500 CPU in this system, and in 2017 it was able to play back 720p 60fps YT videos flawlessly, it was marginal but mostly watchable at 1080p 60fps with occasional frozen frame issues when the scene changed. A few years later after a browser upgrade I couldn't watch the very same 60fps videos with it, they turned into slideshow at 720p 60fps. I changed the CPU to a Quad Core Q9550 about 2-3 years ago, it was flawless with 1080p 60fps videos then, now it's struggling with them, I have to watch 60fps videos at 720p again, and even at 720p it has the occasional freeze frame at scene changes with some videos. I wish developers were not so lazy (and/or servants of hardware manufacturers to boost sales by intentionally making code that runs bad on older systems) and optimize their code for older CPUs too. This CPU is old, but very powerful, it just doesn't have the latest instruction set. I mean if it was able to do something 3 years ago, and now with the newer versions of the same codecs it's struggling, I would not call that development.
Thanks for demonstrating this with the florescent light. When the servo goes out of sync like this, does it happen on recordings for all speeds BI, BIi, BIII in a similar way. I’m guessing it is most sensitive on BIII? Are there other scenarios that would cause this such as a tape that was recorded on a bad machine, or a tape that had somehow been stretched in an irregular way? I have some BIII recordings that have similar issues and I’m trying to determine if it is the playback machine or not. They came from a collector who I think recorded everything but didn’t watch any of it.
Thats just too bad isn't it. If you can't handle the sound of a fan running in the background then you have bigger issues. If I turn the ac off it gets to about 40c in here. Even with the ac on it is still bloody hot.
That is a youtube issue. My levels are fine and the background noise does NOT increase when I am not talking. It is quiet in the background. CZcams choses to apply AGC and level out the sound. i suggest you send youtube a message and tell them not to do it and see how far you get. It annoys me too because sometimes the radio playing at the neighbors gets boosted to the point that it draws a copyright match. Anyway i am not doing any work in a shop that is over 40C and that is how hot it gets. When it is 30 outside the shop is unbearable, I have to have the AC on or I can't work. I would rather not use it, because I have to pay for the power used, but I am also not working in a dangerously hot environment.
This exact kind of pumping of the image was mentioned in the text books at school when we learned to fix these things. I recognized the problem at once you had tried to clean the heads.
Good old analog servo circuits.
@@12voltvids yes. :) In fact when I did my test after apprenticeship and got my degree it was a CRT tv and a VCR I got to work on. Sadly just a VHS deck. What they did was put a tape on the head used for tracking. lol. Strangely enough only 2 of us out of 12 made it to get the degree. Just show you can’t read your way to electronics. There must be an understanding of what make this and that happen.
Used to have one of those, even had the service manual. Our had a similar issue as yours. Playback was flickering but recording was just fine. Had stopped using it around 2009.…
Interesting thing about this player is it will playback beta 1 speed recorded in 6.0mhz super high band.
I have my Sony SLHF450 and it works great without any problems. I got it off of eBay last year when I first got it, it had a bad picture since the video head was dirty, but I checked and cleaned the heads and the picture looks perfect.
Nice Sleuthing Dave...
It's hard to believe Sony used these bad Sanyo caps on their 1981 model, and after that huge failure rate, they still insisted on using them on their 1988 model. What were they thinking? My 1983 SL-T30 and T50 also have one or two of them in the luminance/video circuit but playback and recording looks fine so I haven't touched them yet.
Obviously sanyo convinced them that the problem was fixed.
For a reason we don't unknown most Sanyo electronics come defected or fail after some time,
I remember to saw a documentary in 90's about SANYO manufacture and assembly lines in Japan and when investigators found was really huge logistic problems on the assembly line, can't remember the details, but literally employees had to assembly everything from scratch on their stage it was ineffective procedure to provide quality manufacture goods,
Every stage was like a miniature parts' shop, electronics everywhere and usually employees had to assembly different stuff at same stage,
Similar as you see today in China but with smaller space and fewer people working with similar amount of goods output. It was insane.
If I remember well was a early 90s documentary, I came to assume it was the same or more basic procedures in the 80's,
can't imagine how capacitors and IC's manufacturing procedures should be at SANYO that time.
Yup sanyo was known for their cheap and shoddy electronics. Why do you think their betamax unloaded the tape when you pressed stop? Because they used the same microcontroller that was used on their vhs machines. Yet some defend sanyo. They were garbage as were their components.
@@12voltvids Absolutely, I still have a Sanyo portable cassette player you won't believe but also had to replace their Sanyo capacitors on it due to issues with motor stability, I replaced then with brand new capacitors and work like new.
I have a SL HF900 I will take a look at those capacitors more closely, I'm planning to replace the old 10000uf Elna capacitors on power supply. They start looking slightly swallowed.
STK regulator had been replaced, but still not change anything on the power unit yet.
Nice one!
These caps are probably not measuring to spec because they're leaking electrons. I bet Mr. Carlson's cap analyzing tool would show red or yellow.
Of course they are leaky. Those are the sample / hold caps.
Really interesting, thank you for this vid! I picked up 6 SL-HF400/600's and they all seem to pulse very similar to yours timing wise, except I am not having any visible glitching. I assumed that's just how this model was since they all do it, but now I'm wondering if they all have bad caps in the servo circuit or maybe those little yellow caps. hmm
Light blue. The bad ones are light blue made by sanyo.
How did you know that this is a component failure and not a potentiometer tune of servo lock required after all these years?
@ilanuriel2573 sanyo did supply some average caps around 1982, notoriously the PAL sl-c6 equivalent as well. And I suppose Daves done heaps of these SL-HFs to even (say blindfolded) without a manual figure where the servo circiut would roughly be then track it down.
It it didn't have those known bad sanyo caps i would have rocked some pots. However after having changed thousands of them on brand new machines that had not even made it to the store for sale yet back in 82/83 when I worked for Sony, when I spot them I am on high alert. That was the symptom back in the day with servos that would not lock up just like it was on this one so seeing the symptom and seeing those blue Samuel the illumined solid caps That was the symptom back in the day with servos that would not lock up just like it was on this one so seeing the symptom and seeing those blue sanyo aluminum solid caps, They just had to go and as you saw fixed the problem
Great 👍
Edit: I would assume even DC powered lights would flash, (using AC and a rectifier to convert to DC) but only if they're not filtered, correct? Or do they behave differently? Interesting strobe effect, if that's what it is called.
Some LEDs are well filtered, some are poorly filtered. The poorly filtered ones might also work.
Led do slightly, but its more of a fade between the power pulses. Fluorescent on the other hand Is a pulse light source. They light up during the power cycle and extinguish completely during the phase reversal. So you get the strobe effect. It only works with magnetic ballast. Early compact fluorescent had magnetic ballast. Then they went I high frequency electronic ballast. Those don't work.
6:55 its also better to view this at the 60p option
What? You mean you watch it at less quality than I produce at.
@12voltvids watching videos online yes i turn it down to 144p to save internet data except for detailed scene's I notch it up.
@@12voltvids The video codecs YT uses getting worse and worse, they are not optimised for old CPUs. Once I had a Core2Duo E7500 CPU in this system, and in 2017 it was able to play back 720p 60fps YT videos flawlessly, it was marginal but mostly watchable at 1080p 60fps with occasional frozen frame issues when the scene changed. A few years later after a browser upgrade I couldn't watch the very same 60fps videos with it, they turned into slideshow at 720p 60fps. I changed the CPU to a Quad Core Q9550 about 2-3 years ago, it was flawless with 1080p 60fps videos then, now it's struggling with them, I have to watch 60fps videos at 720p again, and even at 720p it has the occasional freeze frame at scene changes with some videos.
I wish developers were not so lazy (and/or servants of hardware manufacturers to boost sales by intentionally making code that runs bad on older systems) and optimize their code for older CPUs too. This CPU is old, but very powerful, it just doesn't have the latest instruction set. I mean if it was able to do something 3 years ago, and now with the newer versions of the same codecs it's struggling, I would not call that development.
Thanks for demonstrating this with the florescent light. When the servo goes out of sync like this, does it happen on recordings for all speeds BI, BIi, BIII in a similar way. I’m guessing it is most sensitive on BIII?
Are there other scenarios that would cause this such as a tape that was recorded on a bad machine, or a tape that had somehow been stretched in an irregular way? I have some BIII recordings that have similar issues and I’m trying to determine if it is the playback machine or not. They came from a collector who I think recorded everything but didn’t watch any of it.
Nope the servo is hunting. A bad tape with a damaged control track could cause capstan servo trouble but not drum.
Not through the video yet but my guess is bad compacitors.
Love your work, but please use a lapel mic.
I did and people bitched about that too.
@12voltvids the poor bitches what a demanding audience wants introduce them to a 78rpm cylinder with tinny horn
7-Eleven
Mmmm i want a burpy
If you are filming, please put the AC off, the sound is therible
Thats just too bad isn't it. If you can't handle the sound of a fan running in the background then you have bigger issues. If I turn the ac off it gets to about 40c in here. Even with the ac on it is still bloody hot.
@@12voltvids i can understand the AC when its getting Hot but the AGC off your mike increases the sound off the AC when the is no comment from you.
Please check the post on CZcams and you will hear the issue
I watched the video on CZcams as soon as it posted and it sounded fine to me.
That is a youtube issue. My levels are fine and the background noise does NOT increase when I am not talking. It is quiet in the background. CZcams choses to apply AGC and level out the sound. i suggest you send youtube a message and tell them not to do it and see how far you get. It annoys me too because sometimes the radio playing at the neighbors gets boosted to the point that it draws a copyright match. Anyway i am not doing any work in a shop that is over 40C and that is how hot it gets. When it is 30 outside the shop is unbearable, I have to have the AC on or I can't work. I would rather not use it, because I have to pay for the power used, but I am also not working in a dangerously hot environment.