I often feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with smart home stuff. As a disabled person, it's totally life changing as an accessibility tool and enables so much more independence. But equally as someone with a computing background and an interest in electronics, I know just how bad a lot of it is. I appreciate people like Clive who dissect them so I don't have to and can make a much more informed decision. And fortunately I do have that knowledge and it allows me to make decisions about what to buy and how to set it up that allow me to get the best of both - the independence and as much control at possible over risks. Not everyone has that though and it makes me so sad that people either miss out or don't realise the risk they're taking because manufacturers are often in a race to the bottom rather than actually following both cyber security and electrical best practices.
I wouldn't worry about that. Most stuff that a normal person would but is safe enough. Also, you may be thinking "oh, all those poor people are making stupid choices because they don't know my field as well as I do," but they are thinking the same about you...
a lot of it is just crap marketed to non-techy-people who think they're going to be techy _edit:_ and I'm an I.T. nerd and have none of it (mainly because of security, usability and billing headaches). Anything I need to automate is done with cheap mechanical timers, dusk-to-dawn sensors, old-school programmable thermostat, etc... Cameras are on a closed wired Lorex system that I myself have set up and is not on my home network (though I could, and set up remote access, but I don't *_need_* to [it's more of a scare tactic to ensure passers-by behave themselves]). I don't need to interface with some bullshit smartohone app to switch a light, brew coffee for me, unlock my front door, tell me a dog has ran on my lawn, ... I have legs, arms, eyes LOL. Only once in maybe the past 20 years have I wished to remotely check the thermostat while on a biz trip LOL LOL LOL
UL..underrighters laboratory...they run it by insurance inspectors v, it means they tried hard to test the devil out of it...it's American ( and not perfect)..but I do like to see the ":UL $ label on A toaster ect .you can place new trinkets ..in a fire proof space - make it run 3:days. , No smoke no smells no hassels... Before you put it to work...the coffee pot test...
I totally agree one needs to be worried about things like that, but really, what are they going to do in the average home? Turn your lights on? Turn the heater up? Not really the end of the world. I guess if your house has a self destruct button don't put it on this circuit? I'm far more concerned about things with microphones and cameras we spread everywhere and the perverts who can hack into those.
They used to sell mains double adapters in Australia that swapped the active and neutral pins, because that was the easiest way to do it with physical strips and one socket upside down.
Do you recall what brand they were or about what era Dave? Pre the insulated prongs era? I guess I should just ditch all my old ones that don't have insulated prongs anyway (I thought I had already but I found I still had some Click branded ones in my inventory).
Dave Jones thought I'd see you in these comments has Sagan in the other kiddo doing been awhile since I've seen them on any videos as well as not seem to email bags and just not much I've been interested that's been uploaded recently which is kind of Rarity here on CZcams with any channel similar to yours but still thanks for the content it does keep getting more interesting
@@Aussiblue Decades ago. All the brands did it. They're the triangular style ones, and they're obvious because the top socket is up the right way, and the bottom one is upside down. Also not a 90 degree angle like the modern ones, so they're a flatter triangle than modern ones.
It's not that important. A lot seem to be raising fluff about that, meanwhile over here in Europe we get to plug 🔌 it in either way and there are no beneficial safety risks that matter enough for it to be rectified(pun intended)
I wouldn't necessarily have thought to check the continuity across the earth terminals - every other socket I've ever seen has a bloody great bus-bar joining the mounting holes/earth terminal. Having installed it, I've got a little rudimentary plug-in tester, there's no guarantee that I'd have tried both sockets. So, maybe I'm painting a picture of me as an oaf, but it's the danger of making assumptions about how stuff works: that "an earth" would mean the whole thing earthed. I think it would be easy to be caught out if not checking stuff that shouldn't need checking. A lesson learnt - thanks Clive.
@@stargazer7644 Well yes, but generally I would be using a tester to test that the socket is wired into the house correctly, rather than that it is internally safe/correct. I also wouldn't necessarily have checked continuity between the earths, and I'm pretty careful to double check almost everything! As David said, pretty much everything I've ever seen connects all of its earth terminals together. And I think I would see that and think "oh, that's nice, they've provided an extra terminal to use to bond the socket to the backbox, or whatever". I can think of literally no situation where you'd want different things connected to the earths of both sockets, they have shared line and neutral so it's not like they are simply saying it's 2 completely separate sockets that you wire into the ring separately, so why would they not be connected?!
BS 1363 sockets normally have 2 E terminals because, until a month ago, BS 7671 required circuits with high cpc ("earth wire") currents to have 2 separate cpcs attached via two separate terminals. Think of a bunch of computer equipment in a data centre with lots of filtering capacitors giving lots of earth leakage. If there's only cpc and it disconnects, any metalwork becomes live via the relatively low impedance of the capacitors.
as someone who is DIY and has been changing out GFCI's in the u.s I likely would have thought both shared a ground/earth. this was good to know, and now i'm going to be testing all new outlets.... Clive, you're amazing, and i can't wait for you to hit 1m
Every GFCI receptacle I've seen has just one ground terminal. there are two sets of hot and neutral, one labeled "Line" where power comes in from the source, and one set called "Load" where you can attach downstream receptacles so they can be GFCI protected.
I absolutely agree with your trepidation around all things IoT. I was gifted one of the Sonoff wifi controlled switching devices, and I chose not to use it until i flashed my own code onto it. Which was surprisingly easy. And, yes, it was the same chip as this one.
Tasmota as well. The capability to flash these devices with open-source firmware is the only reason I’ve adopted IoT devices into my home. Any other cloud based solutions present a serious cybersecurity vulnerability into an otherwise secure network.
Yeah sonoff is a well known company for making devices suitable for custom firmware, which will probably remain necessary until the more local network stuff (Bluetooth, z wave, ZigBee) becomes as cheap: if I control how it connects and the protocol is simple, I don't care as much about the firmware.
Did you guys notice around 11:15 that the ESPs GPIO-0, RX and TX, and a handy GND, are brought out to nice big pads on the solder side of the PCB? Like Sonoff only even easier to get your hands on the re-programming pins. Cool. I personally like Sonoff Basic units flashed with NodeMCU running self-written code. So far so good...
@@sootikins While you're in the Sonoff Basic with a soldering iron ... I like to reinforce the somewhat thin-looking traces between the line/load and line/relay/load by piggybacking a piece of solid 12AWG wire, running the full length of the trace. That's the safe bet when you're switching loads of more than 1-2A with those.
"There's always a bit of a weakness" in Web-connected things. How right you are, Big Clive. Years back there were Chinese USB-rechargeable vape sticks that contained malware/spyware, and they got plugged into computers used by US government employees. It is a *real* problem. The ol' "trust but verify" has become "don't trust at all" for good reason. We love your channel!
When I worked on a DoD Federal contract back in 2011 all of the USB ports on the desktop PCs were disabled. CD and DVD-RWs were how data was transferred into and out of them.
I have to say that I'd never install one of these things without a hard on/off switch next to it. My Mum had one of those simple USB sockets and one day it started to smoke. She panicked as she couldn't turn it off and had to call me, whereupon trying to explain how to isolate the circuit at the consumer unit while she was flapping around and stressed wasn't ideal. I eventually had to tell her to "flip the big red switch" to turn off the whole supply and then drive over as quickly as possible because she doesn't have a mobile and was calling me from a cordless landline phone that got disconnected when the power went off.
@@BigClive No, no according to the wiring I saw decades ago in my east German apartment (before it was rewired for "western" standards): brown is earth, black is neutral (because they look similar and connect at the fuse box) and that funny green-yellow one is live, because it already has those very visible warning colors. If one of the colors is not available you can also use that muted blueish or dirty grayish color - as long as the most visible color is the live wire. If you happen to have a roll of red wires - don't waste them! The foreman of the local industrial plant will swap them for two rolls of gray wire or a pack of ceramic tiles, because he has party officials coming next month and needs to prove that the electric system is fully socialist...
The most shocking thinking was seeing that it was designed well enough to be dismantled without the need for the dremel of enlightenment or snips of gnostic-gnibbling. I'm not sure I've seen a socket come apart non-destructively before(this may admittedly be a feature rather than a bug).
A decent piece of kit let down by dumb earthing, even a label would help, definitely the instructions should have the fact in large red letters. Lots of non smart sockets have dual earth connections, a lot that I've installed in recent years have, but every one of them had the earth terminals connected, normally by a metal plate going around the live and neutral brown connection block and picking up the mounting screws at the same time and yes I tested every socket with a continuity test at the *distribution board or at the socket with radial circuits and spurs. *Consumer unit, if domestic. I have mainly done commercial & industrial installations as well as event work (stage sound & lighting) for the last 47yrs. Some electricians I've worked with use the second earth for a metal back box strap putting the ring earths in one terminal which is something I do myself but most times I've seen the terminals used to complete the ring earth with plastic back boxes. I often - even with plastic boxes - put the ring earths in one connector, there is just something nice about seeing the wires connect in one terminal especially as 2.5mm (ring circuit) twin & earth has only a 1.5mm earth. Top tip! Never twist any of the solid-core wires together on a ring circuit before inserting into a brass terminal hole, that can cause the grub screw to sever one of wires with very little torque when tightening. Inserted straight, side by side shotgun style into the orifice so the screw can clamp both wires firmly from the top creates a much stronger connection.
I think the text being upside down is so that it reads correctly as you wire it facing down, then rotate up to mount to the wall. Cheers for the video, always informative and interesting.
It's a shame really because it seems in many other ways that it's a good socket (tho I don't like the screwless façade). Especially considering the Rx, Tx and Rst pins are visible on the reverse so this could easily be loaded with a custom firmware from eg ESPHome as I have done with other TCP products in the past.
Depending on the out-the-box FW, many of these ESP based devices can be flashed OTA using something like Tasmotizor, so no need to even get to the GPIO pads... ;)
@@dougle03 That's a real pain though, unless things have improved greatly recently it's a rare case where the hard mod (serial connection and esptool) is much easier and quicker than doing the exploit "ritual" to do it OTA
@@Yrouel86 Just flash it once from ESPtool / similar with OTA enabled, then you can flash it remotely as many times as you want. I will always prefer this method over messing with original firmware!
@@Yrouel86 all of the smart devices I've obtained and tasmotized were done via the hard mod rather than OTA. I dump the original firmware too, since it's never protected.
I hope you keep this type of videos reviewing recalls in electronics, I love reading the big posters at targets Walmart ect about recall products like baby carriers folding while in use 😀 and other dangerous products 😀
Best one I've seen stated a recall on a lawn chair due to "the possibility of having a limb removed." Turns out that someone got a finger cut off while attempting to sit down. 🤪
May cause oily, gassy discharge. Sad to say, my preferred sporting goods store no longer has the section of posters, just a big QR code. We Yanks make fun of universal healthcare, but half of the recalls I've seen look like applications for a Darwin Award.
Hi Clive, another excellent video. I have never thought it's a good idea to have any consumer electronics hard wired into a socket box. It can be damaged during installation, it can be prone to overheating, and difficult for a consumer to deal with in the event of a fault. At 17 seconds into you video, it clearly shows the product as being CE marked. It's not the first time that TCP, has been in trouble for put a test marking on its product without the appropriate design review and testing, without having been done first.
I felt so sorry for that tiny baby transformer having four thousand volts across it. (As Cleese: "That transformer wouldn't 'voom' if you put four thousand volts across it!")
Love how you attack this exactly how any of us would , I’ve got about eight of those I bought home from a clearance store and I’m extremely grateful you did this video before I’ve fitted any , however the brand British general I have got has all the earths tied together by a bar from the screw mounts to both screw clamps
I agree with you on those circuit board mounted relays, I'm a machine technician and one brand of edgebander I've worked on many times uses thermostats to regulate the temperature of the glue nozzle. There are two separate sections of the glue nozzle, the main heating section which uses five heater elements and the application nozzle which uses one heater. Each section has it's own thermostat and these thermostats use these board mounted relays to switch on the heaters. For years they used the thermostats to switch on separate larger relays that took the brunt of the load the heater elements drew. Somewhere along the line someone decided that the nozzle only had one element so they could save a few bucks by eliminating the second relay and switch the element straight from the thermostat. As you can imagine, eventually the circuit board relay burnt out from the load, I don't remember the wattage of that element, it was either 500 watts or 250 watts at 240 VAC, but the relay could only handle it for so long. What I started doing was recommending to the customers to add an inexpensive relay to the circuit to switch that element because those thermostats weren't cheap. Most of the time they would agreed and I would install the relay and draw it into the schematics.
Two earth terminals is quite common - mostly on double pole switched sockets, but almost always with a very clear obvious commoning bar between the two. Definitely uncomfortable with the size of those relays & even more uncomfortable with it being a "smart" internet connected thing - very much a solution looking for a problem....
I have a fairly intensive HiFi system for which the inrush is fairly substantial and a power sequencer for it would be needlessly expensive. Instead I can say “Alexa turn on the cinema.” and it sequentially powers the speaker system, display screen, amplifiers, etc. and sets the lights to an appropriate level.” Not all of it was a problem looking for a solution but it is a very tidy way of solving one problem whilst adding nice bells and whistles to the whole arrangement.
The relays are fine, they are only switching a single connection and it's ac. Look at some of the specs of such relays, and you will find that current ratings of 10A to 20A are avaiable in very tiny packages. eg 21.2 x 20.6 x 16mm for a 20A relay picked out at random. The biggest issue is that the relays have to be powered on all the time and that means some dissipation will need to be accounted for. Bi-Stable relays could overcome that, but introduce other issues, Remote sockets are VERY useful for a lot of things, especially those daft items of kit with the power switch on the back, when once installed it awkward to get at! Remote access power switched have been used for years in comms systems where you might need to power cycle a system remotely in some situations Andy
Nope,your not alone on that one, plus I generally try to keep my mind and body active, I have absolutely no desire or need for a hand held controller to tell the oven to turn on when the latest episode of crap has just finished and to alert the fridge that I have just taken the chicken out and I have now run out of chicken.
@@dcallan812 the problems are planned obsolescence, because it will outlive the "cloud service" its probably connected to and for the takeover scenario, there have been bot-nets built entirely from IOT devices, so you would give away bandwidth to criminal activities.
Some people use network connected outlets (usually of the plug-in kind instead of the built-in kind) as a remote kill switch for when a 3D printer has trouble and the operator is not near to stop it.
@@anessenator and if it's not well-secured, someone could break into it and rewrite the firmware, best case scenario being the socket is also part of a botnet, worst case being someone specifically targeting an individual and, say, forcibly turning off the power to a home medical device
I remember when I saw a BS1363 plug for the 1st. time, I thought that it was for industrial use because hers huge pins in comparison with NEMA plugs and from another standards, another surprise with them was when I discovered hers built-in ceramic fuses... Greetings from Brazil!!!
Clive you missed the first part of the recall! At 1:21 you can clearly see that in the instructions leaflet they show only one of the earth lugs connected in the wiring diagram! (there is actually a small wiring diagram on the other side of the paper)
@@CableWrestler Yes, some of the USB sockets we have in caravans at work have one of the socket switches connected to the USB charging circuit. so turning off one of the sockets disconnects the USB charger (though I don't know if it's DP or SP switching). Personally I like regular DP switched sockets from a reputable manufacturer. Redid all the sockets in my Grans old place with cheapo Crabtree Capitol sockets/switches/spurs and whilst they are not the best they are certialy built to some sort of standard. Plus I like their switched fused spurs with the neon in the tip of the switch.
On total failure, the only thing stopping it drawing a full 32A continuous ring main current is that 1W wirewound resistor. And once that goes black creating a new carbon tracking path, the full current is available to set fire to it. Fuses have a purpose, but only if there is one... I love clive's product recall autopsies. I knew it'd be an interesting one as soon as YT offered it to me! Thanks clive 👍🏻🇬🇧
And the R for Reliability, L for long life.. U for userfriendlyness, D for documentation and F for fireprotection... C for collaboration and N for norms.
I just don't trust smart switches/outlets or really even outlets with USB ports. I don't like the idea of having random circuit boards inside my wall, seems like a fire hazard compared to an analogue switch. I have a few smart bulbs around the house and I like those, but that's about as far as I'd go IOT wise
Yeah its a bit dangerous and the quality is unknown i would rather use a sepperate safe adapter that outputs 5v and has protected output to power the esp chip and relay
A lot of sockets do have two earth terminals for earthing to the back box. A line-earth fault can burn the fixing screws and lugs, and a direct tail to the back box provides a better, safer earth. Of course, this can be connected straight into the same terminal as the CPC, but anyone who's connected a spur will know how difficult it can sometimes be to fit three wires into one terminal (I have seen a model that had two L and two N terminals that makes this easier, but bizarrely still only had one E terminal 😵💫).
I was once on the trip to smartify my home - when none of those products were available and my education as an EE came into place. But when I figured, what an effort it would be, avoiding the risk to burn down my home and then having a safety inspector stating "this is a non compliant installation - costs for the burned home are on you" - I just chose to not smartify my home as much as I initially wanted.
That actually looks like a reasonably nice piece of kit. I wouldn't want one in my wall, but plonk the thing on the end of an extension cable and I can think of loads of uses for it (once earthed properly). Ideally I'd want to replace the firmware with something custom, but that might not be hard --- there are some handy-looking RX and TX pins on the bottom, which might connect to the ESP's UART. That chip's got either 1MB or 2MB of onboard flash, too.
You're right being worried about shady firmwares (and their cloud stuff) but this one and many other devices like this are based on an ESP chip thus can be flashed with a number of open source firmwares. Tasmota is perhaps the most famous one and it really unlocks the potential of these devices. Another firmware is Home Accessory Architect which is specific for direct Apple HomeKit integration (this is the one I use and it works really well for me) and another is ESPHome. Unfortunately these days some companies like Tuya have caught on the fact that a lot of people bought their devices but got rid of their cloud s**t and replaced the ESP based wifi modules with equivalents which are however not supported by these alternate firmwares. So now you need to do a bit more research or be ready to return the device if it doesn't have the right chip
@@geremyis5191 in my case direct HomeKit integration without their apps or cloud. Also you can configure and use gpio if there are any and you want to expand capabilities. With Tasmota you have Alexa/google home and you can also integrate these devices in home assistant which is a very powerful tool and again you keep control of your devices
@@geremyis5191 Less of unlock, more lock. You're no longer relying on a "cloud" (marketing speak for somebody else's server that they can stop at any time). Gives you full control over your own devices, for as long as you want, not a few years and suddenly they stop working unless you pay a subscription or have to update the hardware.
@@geremyis5191 In the case of my wall switches, the factory firmware does on/off and requires an Internet connection even for direct physical operation. With open firmware I can program patterns, such as double-tapping, to send an arbitrary message to an arbitrary device and it can receive messages from any source on my network. It doesn't require a server _at all,_ local or "cloud". A slight downgrade in control security, perhaps, but I prefer to do the heavy lifting of securing a network on networking devices: routers, firewalls, switches, etc.. I think there's an access whitelist option, but I don't use it - their most common use in my experience is to lock _yourself_ out of a device.
your entire mains installation is hard wired really. This is a design mess-up in a double socket, that can cause some rather serious issues. These SHOULD be caught on testing, but not everyone will spot the problem. The product should not have gone on sale in the first place in it's current form, so the big question is how did it pass approval?
I don't even like the sockets with USB chargers built into them. Not only are they guaranteed to fail at some point, they are invariably some poorly designed and built charger circuit that risks isolation and/or smoke/fire issues.
@@ferrumignis USB sockets can mask some earth leakage problems in your house wiring too. You'd have to disconnect them all & bridge the conductors to get correct readings on an EICR. Too much time & cost, so it isn't done by most sparks.
@@andye2005 Yeah I'm just trying to think of how many people this had to go through and make it all the way through validation and manufacturing and sale without _anybody_ seeing there was a problem. _Really_ makes you wonder.
I know of a seasoned electrician that transposed the the connections in a wall socket that was in an office of a laboratory. Several years later, a cleaner unplugged a computer in the office and plugged it back into the miswired socket. The computer died and sent mains down the RS232 network ,frying various lab analysers. *Very expensive* I don't recall if seasoning was used in the frying process. To add insult to injury ,the electrician was the husband of one of the lab staff.
I didn't notice whether you tested if that USB socket had any connection to ground. Considering how people have been electrocuted through their headphones listening to something while a mobile device is being charged, I think it's essential
The USB outlets are isolated, just as they would be in a regular phone charger. Probably just as well; if they were tied to one of the ground terminals that was floating it would increase the chance of a dangerous fault condition if an earthed appliance was plugged in.
I was almost worried I wouldn’t get a ‘one moment please’ in this video after the first pause 😮 but nope, Clive just kept us on the edge of our seats 😊
13:27 Back in the days of valves it was quite common for the first smoothing capacitor after the rectifiers to be fairly modest (8uF was common in Fender guitar amps) so the rectifiers saw less ripple current, with a more substantial reservoir capacitor (16 or 32uF - us Yanks loved multiples of 8 for "condensers" back then) after the choke. Go too big with that first capacitor and the cathode bonding wire acts like a fuse. No idea why they'd do this with low power solid state except, perhaps, "Tradition!"...or maybe knock down a harmonic resonance.
The difference now is that the inductor is much smaller in value so it only has significantly impedance at 10s of kHz and works into the MHz. No effect at 100 or 120Hz but keeps the PSU noise in.🙂
Ahh Clive! You should have torture tested it with a nice 4kw inductive load! Would have loved to see how many times you can cycle those relays before the weld themselves closed? Side note, always use the same terminal for looping in an accessory. Lowest amount of failure points as possible. Great tear down, thanks!
I always see that yellow magnet wire referred to as "triple insulated wire" or TIW. As far as I can tell it's the only compliant way to wind the secondary on those little SMPS transformers.
Thank you for explaining the background of the issue. That's something that I didn't know/thought about. Maybe that's why there are no installation instructions in the box so that only electrician install it that knows how to deal with it. At the same time, any DIYer can get it so there is a risk that it will be installed incorrectly. Really strange design choices not to include instructions, jump cable or any lable on the back of the device.
We do like a good recall product. So many jokes about the missing link. I t is odd not to have the earths tied, randonJoe would just wire this the same way as "normal" sockets and have 1 side un-earthed. ⚡⚡We could put it down to Natural Selection. Interesting video 2x👍
I've seen these cheap sockets that break neutral with the relay, not hot. Also, I recently saw some smart outlets with a recessed ground (about half an inch, 1.25cm). That's a risk, because a faulty device can have the case energized before the ground is connected. I have an outlet tester that specifically tests for a recessed ground, so it must be a common enough fault to design a test for.
Think it was MK who brought dual earth sockets out to satisfy some regulation about I.T. equipment about 25 years ago. The k2747 was standard and the K2746 had dual earths and outboard rocker switches. Now some cheapo sockets have dual earths although some are upside down compared to the line and neutral. Think the example in the video is a result of a foreign copy. Excellent videos thanks.
The dual earth sockets like the K2746 still have the earths tied together within the socket itself though. The two ground connections is for redundancy in the external wiring.
Shame about that design flaw, other than that (and the dubious idea of USB in a wall plate) it looks like a pretty reasonable smart outlet (with two relays which is awesome) and suitable for ESPHome or other custom firmware.
@Keltic D My modern phone uses USB to to charge... Or are you making a comparison to USB-C? My phone came with a USB-C to A cable, and any phone with USB-C can be charged via USB-A right?
@Keltic D the problem isn't the A port, but that it isn't smart. Default USB, also Type C, will charge at 500mA if nothing is communicated between device and charger.
@Keltic D the majority of phones still pack cables with an A male on one end. Yes, c-c and lightning-lightning cables are growing more common but the most common cable is still a-c.
@Keltic D Doesn't matter if phones don't use USB-A ... there are millions of cables lying around that match your phone and have a USB A on the other end!
@@youdontknowme5969 Yeah, not a bad company. I had one of their plug-in ethernet extender kits years ago that used mains sockets. Later we upgraded to a BT system that was faster but more pernickerty. Gave it up when we went over to fibre optic internet with the router bang in the middle of our flat. Always wondered how safe mains-carried internet was, though
Hey Clive. I’d love to see you strip down and figure out a “Medicur Electromagnetic Field Therapy Unit”. My mother has one and swears that it works for her but I’m pretty sure it’s just a box with some blinking lights and it actually does nothing. I can’t find a taredown of one anywhere. I might be able to temporarily disassemble my mothers and take some pics.
@@ferrumignis yes absolutely, I couldn’t believe when my mother bought it. I know the placebo effect works and if it makes her feel better then great but I’d like to figure out what (if anything) it does. There are a fair number of reviews of people who were desperate and spent so much money hoping it would help them and got no result from it at all :/
I found something similar recently in French, but can't find it now. It was a small device, but rather expensive. Then there is czcams.com/video/6H_4gPWEqgM/video.html from Play with Junk. And for teardowns (in French) on nice and also cheaty stuff look at czcams.com/users/dexsilicium
The metal screw holes on either side was connected to individual Earth connections. If screwed in properly, the Earth connections would have continuity
In the USA, duplex outlets never have more than one ground terminal. I think the reason why is that they don't want the ground to be interrupted if the outlet is removed or damaged. You have to splice all the grounds in the box together with a wire nut, crimp sleeve or a WAGO.
@@MrSleepProductionsInc Duplex receptacles however are designed to let you split them into isolated receptacles so one can be switched and the other always on.
@@MrSleepProductionsInc At a minimum they should use the screw terminals instead of those awful backstab terminals. I've seen where electricians use the backstab AND the screw terminals (most common on a switch) just to avoid pigtailing.
Those relays look like the same (or similar) ones that I recently salvaged out of an old Microwave when converting it to a spot welder, they were also rated at 16 amp.
I don't care for having wifi switches or built in USB power supplies as a fixture, but it's not because of hackers. Either one is likely to fail long before a standard switch or receptacle. Just for my own ease of replacement, I prefer to use smart bulbs and plug in smart outlets, and USB adapters. I guess it just makes me a lazy tech geek instead of a modern one! 😆
I can't agree more. I rather have a few plug-in smart outlets (that also usually have a power button on them as well) and smart bulbs just because of the failure chances. Also as the SysAdmin of a site hit daily by thousands of compromised devices being used as a bulletproof proxy, I am beyond wary of having Internet of Sh*t devices. With plug-in devices, being able to just kill it instantly is doubly appealing.
Judging by the copper wiring coming from each socket to the plate, it looks like the manufacturers expected these to be bolted to a metal frame box for grounding purposes.
As a disabled person, smart home stuff is invaluable, but I generally tend to have devices plugged into a regular socket, just because if all goes wrong it can be unplugged, even though it is more ugly. I can see why they recalled that, the ease of installing that badly is shocking! It's a shame that most of the Tuya based (like TCP Smart, Aldi, Poundland etc) smart devices are all wifi that need the internet to work (usually, there are ways around that) but these days I'm tending to go for Zigbee stuff that I can control locally (doesn't depend on internet, and it doesn't connect to a naughty privacy violating server). That's something I might have missed (the non-continuous earth) although I do tend to test cables and devices for continuity/fuses or if they've used cheap CCA cables (horrible!) and our RCD both at the db and with a socket RCD tester I have, thanks to the knowledge I've gained from people like you over the years! I really appreciate it
I don't really agree with this being grounds (no pun intended) for a recall, it will just create tons of e-waste for basically nothing, instead they could just have informed the public that a jumper is needed, and further, issued a correct wiring diagram plus a free jumper for every customer. Besides that anyone who messes around with mains voltage must know you need to test your work and thus would have found out that the earth terminals aren't interconnected and thereupon would have re-wired it accordingly.
How many people would have bothered to either fit the jumper themselves (if they had the ability) or pay for an electrician to do it? A recall was the only sensible option here, as much as I hate waste.
Any decent electrician would've con-checked both those earth terminals, but electrical regs are written to the lowest common denominator & in this respect, you can't release a product that doesn't show this in the instructions in bold text & is also repeated in bold text on the rear of the unit (perhaps even with an included earth-bar pre-installed between the earth's. If it requires common-sense to be fitted safely it is inherently unsafe.
I'm an industrial electrician, I occaisionally get involved in sockets, I wouldnt have thought twice about the earth sides not beng connected, but I will from now on.
Yeah- I’d be happy to use that with a proper earth bridge. In any event, I ALWAYS check earths, AND correct active/neutral after doing any fixed wiring.
Thought I saw some reference to wiring in the instructions at 1:23. Bottom row 2nd from the left image seems to show the rear of the unit with wires illustrated..
@@BigClive I was thinking the same thing... Perhaps the engineer expected the metal frame to tie the two earths together (via the screws)? And then someone else decided it should be painted, which ruined the connection.
From a security POV IOT is still somewhat wild west - even basic things such as secure (signed) boot are not in place, despite being fairly easy to implement. Also if anyone has these & is using them knowing the limitations it is probably best to loop the earth through both terminals (So in one, link from 1 to 2, out of 2) as that way any electrical circuit test tests the full path - if the 3 wires-in-one and a link across is used the link isn't tested by that sort of test.
At least the ones I've seen in the US, pretty much all of those wifi outlets seem poorly made. Especially the cheapo no-name ones that can be found on Amazon that aren't UL listed. They're probably fine for a lamp, but I've seen people use them with space heaters and window air conditioners and it just seems like you're asking for a fire running cheap no-name Chinese relays at 100% all the time. Although I wonder if the same basic design is actually somewhat safer in 230V countries. A 15 amp load in the US is only a 7.5A load for you, after all. (Give or take a bit) Much less stress on those little cheapo relays, I'd assume.
The most common ones are just as bad. But you can get good ones from "old and respectable" companies nowadays, but then you pay about 50-100 Euros per (single port) outlet. Also, outlets are rated 13A (UK) or 16A (CEE) and there are appliances that use that extra power. So no, not much gained there...
I've seen the Hive brand smart plugs overheat and turn themselves off with a red flashing light when running a full 13A load. I guess they must have a temp sensor inside for the relay to shut it off before it catches fire...
@@connerlabs I suppose thats a good thing. But I'd argue that if it's rated for 13 amps, it should be able to take 13 amps indefinitely. But at least the under-rated components won't burst into flames at least. There's a few heavy duty appliances I've wanted to control with smart outlets. Like the window air conditioner in my garage (pre chill it before I go out to work) but I couldn't trust those wifi outlets to handle the load. I instead rigged up a contactor with a 120v coil that I connected to a cheap wifi outlet, so the contactor does the heavy lifting and the smart switch just has to handle a few watts to latch the contactor.
Well this was useful, I shall be testing earth continuity across any unfamiliar outlets from now on
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6:42 Rule number one: USB ports in outlets are bad because they can fail, burn, often don‘t deliver (close to) 5V and generally are slow. Rule number two: A outlet with some relays most likely will fail 10 times faster compared to a normal outlet.
I have some outlets with USB ports in them and so far they've lasted longer than some plug-in USB power supplies I've had in the past. I think the difference is that these outlets are made by Eaton and cost about $15 a piece, so the USB power supply within is probably better quality.
Před 2 lety
@@brianleeper5737 I have had one USB power strip (failed, probably capacitor or switching chip) and have another one from IKEA which only outputs 4V rendering it useless for most applications. Most USB supplies lasted like 5 years, I have some that are 8 years old.
On a normal double 13A socket the earth link is visible, to the screw holes etc. Not being able to see the whole earth link imediatly rings alarm bells ! The point about no earth link between the two terminals being possibly to avoid blocking the wifi signal is not valid as it would make no difference with the socket fitted to a normal metal pattress box !
With the grounds separated, you could make one socket standard ground and other an "isolated" ground. an example of the need for an isolated ground would be in a sound booth where you have all the electronic devices such as lighting and computers using the standard ground, but you only plug the sound board into the isolated grounding circuit to help ensure noise doesn't get into the sound system. Of course I'm sure they didn't have that in mind when they made that device. You normally have the isolated grounding socket with a green dot and if there are two sockets the both would be isolated. I forget but I think hospital grade has an orange dot and the completely orange sockets used indicate that they are able to provide emergency power.
I absolutely love your videos, Clive. I've watched almost everything on your channel and I've learnt so much. Always entertaining, honest and informative reviews. Love it 👍🏼
Just wondering if you were to connect both "earth" connections would the lug or terminal where the jumper is added be rated for two wires under one lug or screw? I suppose you could tail it out. I guess just need to do what you needto do to make it safe.
Sounds like the mix up of Brown and Brown into the same terminal is technical/graphic design issue, where QA checks for the manuals got blurred between two different countries wiring codes. I have similar issue in our IoT work we do trying to fact check every possible thing, with the exception we don't work with any voltages over 50volts - so there isn't really a big liability. I feel these IoT products for mains control shouldn't be in the power point behind the wall, nothing wrong with fitting a smart plug piggy back in - less risk of someone putting an heater into the power point too. Very interesting and scary video :)
The weaknesses with IoT products is that they are dependent on a server and app, which will disappear when the company ceases to exist or decides they don't want to support that product anymore. There is nothing better than directly controlled circuits.
US IoT firm Insteon just vanished off air in the past week and all the board have edited their LinkedIn profiles to either remove any reference or to say they left.
@@masteryoda394 In this case, it seems (so far) to be only if they reset a device then that device fails as it needs the Insteon registration server to reset. Seems that the devices can be added to the open-source software Home Assistant so some users may have a work around. But still not good as many people may not have the skills to set-up an open-source based platform at home or may have ruined the devices by resetting them when they spotted an issue with the IoT services.
This is why these ESP based units are regularly re-flashed with either Tasmota or ESPHome, with both being non-internet, local only protocols; so fully isolated from the internet.
I would never want a SMPSU permanently connected to a 30A circuit in my house wiring, but if for some reason I did want something like this I'd want to add a connection from the low voltage side of the SMPSU to the mains earth.
I would hope it would be adequately protected from a short but from experience these would never be totally reliable and would only use them for non critical equipment.
Great summary Clive, you miss nothing. This is why we do test certificates for new and existing installs, but early test both sides of a double socket with a plug in tester. 50-50 chance of finding it
I was wondering as well. In Germany its forced by law to test all new or changed installs by a certified testing service. The licensed testers work automatically and will find any and all faults associated with these sockets
If I can't unplug it, I don't want it in my walls, I just don't trust there being always-on electronics connected directly to a 32 Amp ring, if it's of "cost-reduced" construction, whose to say that it won't go bang and start a fire in the wall? I just don't trust sockets with electronics inside...
Given that most people leave things pluged in all the time, I wonder if the house fire hazard is higher inside the box, or on the outside of the wall? Electrical boxes are designed to contain the fire afterall, and who knows what nearby fuel might be near the socket outside of the wall? I'm not saying your wrong, it just makes me wonder.
@@animefreak5757 The handy part about something that is plugged in is you can readily switch it off and/or unplug it if something goes boom, for something integrated into the wall, you'd need to shut off the circuit or the whole house at the distribution board to isolate it, I'd prefer the easier option...
As somome who have spent first 25 years of my life living in Eastern European old-style Soviet apartment buildings without ANY ground connectivity at all (grounding was not a part of Soviet electrical safety code - soviet time IEC sockets didn’t even had a grounding pins), I don’t see a problem here. All my youth I used the most terrible Soviet-made appliances that has little-to-no electrical safety measures at all AND no ground pins in sockets, and have never received anything but the faintest shock in worst case fault scenario. This whole “hazard” thing is a bit overrated…
@Artúrs Savickis Just because we have done something for decades means it is the best way to do it. There are multiple good reasons for installing an effective grounding (return to source) system. No dissrespect to Soviet technology, but I have to dissagree regarding total lack of a grounding system.
You must forgive those west born snowflakes. They are made of more conductive skin and have more fragile nerves. Checking a 4.5V battery with their tongue would send them to the emergency room. Anyone who grew up in the East has received enough electric shocks in childhood to make us immune to it, some of us even like it. If it gives us an electric shock it means it is modern and futuristic - something to be proud of! Friends: don't be afraid of electricity! Embrace the future! Receive your first electric shock today. (SCNR) To be fair: accidents were much more common in those times. It just didn't make national news, because it was considered part of life.
@@alanpatterson2384 He was talking about grounding, not polarization. Polarization is kinda a moot point since all outlets are AC and breakers in the past 30 years cut both poles, so it's not a huge issue. Also you can't generalize about Europe, as AFAIK some countries require phase and neutral to respect a wiring otrder. Other doesn't but as I said, those countries also usually have RCI and breakers that both separate live and neutral. As for switches, it is really and probably will remain an UK only thing.
06:50, totally justified. I was given code to review once for a mobile app and the fin product had the email address of one of the outsourced developers, listed as a secondary recipients for email queries send through the site 🙈! Also, motherboards with preinstalled malware I've heard is a thing. Edit: Perhaps the metal bracket wasn't meant to be painted/coated. I may be wrong but it seems those tabs would otherwise be making contact. Still not exactly 💯...
They could have put a flat earth strip on the back of the socket for earthing. I still don't like the idea of circuits in sockets, they could burn up. A charger built into a socket is on all the time, not my cup of tea.
I'm wondering this question myself. My guess is the manufacturer didn't want to pay the 20 cents per outlet for a substantial copper strip to connect the two outlets. I am surprised this passes code as it is.
@@JordyValentine Then if they are the first importer, place them on the market and have their name on them, they are legally considered to be the "Manufacturer" and are responsible for the compliance with the relevant regulations.
I often feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with smart home stuff. As a disabled person, it's totally life changing as an accessibility tool and enables so much more independence. But equally as someone with a computing background and an interest in electronics, I know just how bad a lot of it is. I appreciate people like Clive who dissect them so I don't have to and can make a much more informed decision. And fortunately I do have that knowledge and it allows me to make decisions about what to buy and how to set it up that allow me to get the best of both - the independence and as much control at possible over risks. Not everyone has that though and it makes me so sad that people either miss out or don't realise the risk they're taking because manufacturers are often in a race to the bottom rather than actually following both cyber security and electrical best practices.
I wouldn't worry about that. Most stuff that a normal person would but is safe enough. Also, you may be thinking "oh, all those poor people are making stupid choices because they don't know my field as well as I do," but they are thinking the same about you...
Yeah I wish it didn't take nerds like us to have self-hosted (not cloud dependent, not phoning home) smart home stuff.
a lot of it is just crap marketed to non-techy-people who think they're going to be techy
_edit:_ and I'm an I.T. nerd and have none of it (mainly because of security, usability and billing headaches). Anything I need to automate is done with cheap mechanical timers, dusk-to-dawn sensors, old-school programmable thermostat, etc... Cameras are on a closed wired Lorex system that I myself have set up and is not on my home network (though I could, and set up remote access, but I don't *_need_* to [it's more of a scare tactic to ensure passers-by behave themselves]). I don't need to interface with some bullshit smartohone app to switch a light, brew coffee for me, unlock my front door, tell me a dog has ran on my lawn, ... I have legs, arms, eyes LOL. Only once in maybe the past 20 years have I wished to remotely check the thermostat while on a biz trip LOL LOL LOL
UL..underrighters laboratory...they run it by insurance inspectors v, it means they tried hard to test the devil out of it...it's American ( and not perfect)..but I do like to see the ":UL $ label on A toaster ect .you can place new trinkets ..in a fire proof space - make it run 3:days. , No smoke no smells no hassels... Before you put it to work...the coffee pot test...
I totally agree one needs to be worried about things like that, but really, what are they going to do in the average home? Turn your lights on? Turn the heater up? Not really the end of the world. I guess if your house has a self destruct button don't put it on this circuit?
I'm far more concerned about things with microphones and cameras we spread everywhere and the perverts who can hack into those.
For some reason both of my cats were totally fascinated by this teardown. I hope that they learned something.
Toxoplasmosis
are you planning to train them as electricians?!
Theyre planning to hack the neighbours smart home.
They used to sell mains double adapters in Australia that swapped the active and neutral pins, because that was the easiest way to do it with physical strips and one socket upside down.
Do you recall what brand they were or about what era Dave? Pre the insulated prongs era? I guess I should just ditch all my old ones that don't have insulated prongs anyway (I thought I had already but I found I still had some Click branded ones in my inventory).
Dave Jones thought I'd see you in these comments has Sagan in the other kiddo doing been awhile since I've seen them on any videos as well as not seem to email bags and just not much I've been interested that's been uploaded recently which is kind of Rarity here on CZcams with any channel similar to yours but still thanks for the content it does keep getting more interesting
@@Aussiblue
Decades ago. All the brands did it.
They're the triangular style ones, and they're obvious because the top socket is up the right way, and the bottom one is upside down. Also not a 90 degree angle like the modern ones, so they're a flatter triangle than modern ones.
Isn't that dangerous? I am not a electrical engineer but that doesn't sound very good
It's not that important. A lot seem to be raising fluff about that, meanwhile over here in Europe we get to plug 🔌 it in either way and there are no beneficial safety risks that matter enough for it to be rectified(pun intended)
I wouldn't necessarily have thought to check the continuity across the earth terminals - every other socket I've ever seen has a bloody great bus-bar joining the mounting holes/earth terminal.
Having installed it, I've got a little rudimentary plug-in tester, there's no guarantee that I'd have tried both sockets.
So, maybe I'm painting a picture of me as an oaf, but it's the danger of making assumptions about how stuff works: that "an earth" would mean the whole thing earthed. I think it would be easy to be caught out if not checking stuff that shouldn't need checking.
A lesson learnt - thanks Clive.
Assume nothing, check everything. Expect the unexpected. Especially anything from China.
Well then you'd have only tested half of it.
You've summed up quite well why I love watching Clive's channel.😸
@@stargazer7644 Well yes, but generally I would be using a tester to test that the socket is wired into the house correctly, rather than that it is internally safe/correct.
I also wouldn't necessarily have checked continuity between the earths, and I'm pretty careful to double check almost everything!
As David said, pretty much everything I've ever seen connects all of its earth terminals together. And I think I would see that and think "oh, that's nice, they've provided an extra terminal to use to bond the socket to the backbox, or whatever".
I can think of literally no situation where you'd want different things connected to the earths of both sockets, they have shared line and neutral so it's not like they are simply saying it's 2 completely separate sockets that you wire into the ring separately, so why would they not be connected?!
BS 1363 sockets normally have 2 E terminals because, until a month ago, BS 7671 required circuits with high cpc ("earth wire") currents to have 2 separate cpcs attached via two separate terminals. Think of a bunch of computer equipment in a data centre with lots of filtering capacitors giving lots of earth leakage. If there's only cpc and it disconnects, any metalwork becomes live via the relatively low impedance of the capacitors.
:o
What changed in the spec to drop the mandate?
as someone who is DIY and has been changing out GFCI's in the u.s I likely would have thought both shared a ground/earth. this was good to know, and now i'm going to be testing all new outlets.... Clive, you're amazing, and i can't wait for you to hit 1m
Judging by his appearance, I’d guess Clive’s already about 1.75 m
@@laustinspeiss It's the beard, people see the beard and think Clive must be related to Gimli and Gloin.
@@laustinspeiss That's bad, verging on pain. Anyhow, he must be about 1.85.😆
Every GFCI receptacle I've seen has just one ground terminal. there are two sets of hot and neutral, one labeled "Line" where power comes in from the source, and one set called "Load" where you can attach downstream receptacles so they can be GFCI protected.
I absolutely agree with your trepidation around all things IoT.
I was gifted one of the Sonoff wifi controlled switching devices, and I chose not to use it until i flashed my own code onto it. Which was surprisingly easy.
And, yes, it was the same chip as this one.
ESPHome all the way. Established and Connected FW rules on a dedicated IOT vlan and you're good to go.
Tasmota as well. The capability to flash these devices with open-source firmware is the only reason I’ve adopted IoT devices into my home. Any other cloud based solutions present a serious cybersecurity vulnerability into an otherwise secure network.
Yeah sonoff is a well known company for making devices suitable for custom firmware, which will probably remain necessary until the more local network stuff (Bluetooth, z wave, ZigBee) becomes as cheap: if I control how it connects and the protocol is simple, I don't care as much about the firmware.
Did you guys notice around 11:15 that the ESPs GPIO-0, RX and TX, and a handy GND, are brought out to nice big pads on the solder side of the PCB? Like Sonoff only even easier to get your hands on the re-programming pins. Cool.
I personally like Sonoff Basic units flashed with NodeMCU running self-written code. So far so good...
@@sootikins While you're in the Sonoff Basic with a soldering iron ... I like to reinforce the somewhat thin-looking traces between the line/load and line/relay/load by piggybacking a piece of solid 12AWG wire, running the full length of the trace. That's the safe bet when you're switching loads of more than 1-2A with those.
"There's always a bit of a weakness" in Web-connected things. How right you are, Big Clive. Years back there were Chinese USB-rechargeable vape sticks that contained malware/spyware, and they got plugged into computers used by US government employees. It is a *real* problem. The ol' "trust but verify" has become "don't trust at all" for good reason. We love your channel!
Rubber duckies. USB sticks that emulate a keyboard and execute a string of commands without need for permission.
When I worked on a DoD Federal contract back in 2011 all of the USB ports on the desktop PCs were disabled. CD and DVD-RWs were how data was transferred into and out of them.
I have to say that I'd never install one of these things without a hard on/off switch next to it. My Mum had one of those simple USB sockets and one day it started to smoke. She panicked as she couldn't turn it off and had to call me, whereupon trying to explain how to isolate the circuit at the consumer unit while she was flapping around and stressed wasn't ideal. I eventually had to tell her to "flip the big red switch" to turn off the whole supply and then drive over as quickly as possible because she doesn't have a mobile and was calling me from a cordless landline phone that got disconnected when the power went off.
That's why I connected router and cordless landline on UPS...
@@kornaros96 or just use your mobile/ cell phone
@@anthonybarra2391 it's called "redundant means"
That's why I'll be using plug in switches only.
Why does she have a usb socket if she has no mobile?
it does give wiring at 1:23 near the bottom left, step 8, although it doesn't tell you to put it in both earth holes
And shows a brown (live) wire going to the earth connection.
@@BigClive No, no according to the wiring I saw decades ago in my east German apartment (before it was rewired for "western" standards): brown is earth, black is neutral (because they look similar and connect at the fuse box) and that funny green-yellow one is live, because it already has those very visible warning colors. If one of the colors is not available you can also use that muted blueish or dirty grayish color - as long as the most visible color is the live wire. If you happen to have a roll of red wires - don't waste them! The foreman of the local industrial plant will swap them for two rolls of gray wire or a pack of ceramic tiles, because he has party officials coming next month and needs to prove that the electric system is fully socialist...
The most shocking thinking was seeing that it was designed well enough to be dismantled without the need for the dremel of enlightenment or snips of gnostic-gnibbling. I'm not sure I've seen a socket come apart non-destructively before(this may admittedly be a feature rather than a bug).
A decent piece of kit let down by dumb earthing, even a label would help, definitely the instructions should have the fact in large red letters.
Lots of non smart sockets have dual earth connections, a lot that I've installed in recent years have, but every one of them had the earth terminals connected, normally by a metal plate going around the live and neutral brown connection block and picking up the mounting screws at the same time and yes I tested every socket with a continuity test at the *distribution board or at the socket with radial circuits and spurs.
*Consumer unit, if domestic. I have mainly done commercial & industrial installations as well as event work (stage sound & lighting) for the last 47yrs.
Some electricians I've worked with use the second earth for a metal back box strap putting the ring earths in one terminal which is something I do myself but most times I've seen the terminals used to complete the ring earth with plastic back boxes. I often - even with plastic boxes - put the ring earths in one connector, there is just something nice about seeing the wires connect in one terminal especially as 2.5mm (ring circuit) twin & earth has only a 1.5mm earth.
Top tip! Never twist any of the solid-core wires together on a ring circuit before inserting into a brass terminal hole, that can cause the grub screw to sever one of wires with very little torque when tightening. Inserted straight, side by side shotgun style into the orifice so the screw can clamp both wires firmly from the top creates a much stronger connection.
I think the text being upside down is so that it reads correctly as you wire it facing down, then rotate up to mount to the wall. Cheers for the video, always informative and interesting.
It's a shame really because it seems in many other ways that it's a good socket (tho I don't like the screwless façade). Especially considering the Rx, Tx and Rst pins are visible on the reverse so this could easily be loaded with a custom firmware from eg ESPHome as I have done with other TCP products in the past.
Depending on the out-the-box FW, many of these ESP based devices can be flashed OTA using something like Tasmotizor, so no need to even get to the GPIO pads... ;)
@@dougle03 That's a real pain though, unless things have improved greatly recently it's a rare case where the hard mod (serial connection and esptool) is much easier and quicker than doing the exploit "ritual" to do it OTA
@@Yrouel86 Just flash it once from ESPtool / similar with OTA enabled, then you can flash it remotely as many times as you want. I will always prefer this method over messing with original firmware!
I noticed that too. Just connect that GPIO0 pad to ground, and then the chip will be in flashing mode when powered up.
@@Yrouel86 all of the smart devices I've obtained and tasmotized were done via the hard mod rather than OTA. I dump the original firmware too, since it's never protected.
- _They recalled it because it's so dangerous._
- _Yeah, Clive needs to see this product for sure!_
I hope you keep this type of videos reviewing recalls in electronics, I love reading the big posters at targets Walmart ect about recall products like baby carriers folding while in use 😀 and other dangerous products 😀
Best one I've seen stated a recall on a lawn chair due to "the possibility of having a limb removed." Turns out that someone got a finger cut off while attempting to sit down. 🤪
@@jasonkuehl639 lol yeah those are funny 😄 not saying I want anyone hurt in any way, but they are fun to read..
"This treadmill may eat small children, pets or rubber balls."
May cause oily, gassy discharge.
Sad to say, my preferred sporting goods store no longer has the section of posters, just a big QR code. We Yanks make fun of universal healthcare, but half of the recalls I've seen look like applications for a Darwin Award.
Baby carriages folding up is actually a *good* thing when there's a really idious child contained within!
Hi Clive, another excellent video. I have never thought it's a good idea to have any consumer electronics hard wired into a socket box. It can be damaged during installation, it can be prone to overheating, and difficult for a consumer to deal with in the event of a fault. At 17 seconds into you video, it clearly shows the product as being CE marked. It's not the first time that TCP, has been in trouble for put a test marking on its product without the appropriate design review and testing, without having been done first.
That high voltage tester is brutal! I would like to know if the HV is AC, DC or both. Thanks, Clive.
I believe it's AC.
I felt so sorry for that tiny baby transformer having four thousand volts across it.
(As Cleese: "That transformer wouldn't 'voom' if you put four thousand volts across it!")
Yeah, that tester is definitely not made of the finest Chinesium; it probably has HV safety features and such.
@@zh84 Maybe it was pining for the earth strap. 🤷♂
The display was labelled as kV~ instead of kV⎓
Love how you attack this exactly how any of us would , I’ve got about eight of those I bought home from a clearance store and I’m extremely grateful you did this video before I’ve fitted any , however the brand British general I have got has all the earths tied together by a bar from the screw mounts to both screw clamps
Ideal for plugging in the oscilloscope, mark one as not earthed, top tip 😉😅👍
this is both dumb and smart at once yet no better than just taping of the earth pin on the scope which you shouldnt do either
I prefer Germoline over TCP, it's down to the smell. 😆👍
I agree with you on those circuit board mounted relays, I'm a machine technician and one brand of edgebander I've worked on many times uses thermostats to regulate the temperature of the glue nozzle. There are two separate sections of the glue nozzle, the main heating section which uses five heater elements and the application nozzle which uses one heater. Each section has it's own thermostat and these thermostats use these board mounted relays to switch on the heaters. For years they used the thermostats to switch on separate larger relays that took the brunt of the load the heater elements drew. Somewhere along the line someone decided that the nozzle only had one element so they could save a few bucks by eliminating the second relay and switch the element straight from the thermostat. As you can imagine, eventually the circuit board relay burnt out from the load, I don't remember the wattage of that element, it was either 500 watts or 250 watts at 240 VAC, but the relay could only handle it for so long. What I started doing was recommending to the customers to add an inexpensive relay to the circuit to switch that element because those thermostats weren't cheap. Most of the time they would agreed and I would install the relay and draw it into the schematics.
Two earth terminals is quite common - mostly on double pole switched sockets, but almost always with a very clear obvious commoning bar between the two. Definitely uncomfortable with the size of those relays & even more uncomfortable with it being a "smart" internet connected thing - very much a solution looking for a problem....
But I can turn my iron on and off when I'm away from home!
There are lots of good uses (think of it as a fancy light timer if you like), but very few if any would require it to phone home.
Very handy for cycling power to sky equipment when it locks up but it does impact my 10000 steps a day.
I have a fairly intensive HiFi system for which the inrush is fairly substantial and a power sequencer for it would be needlessly expensive.
Instead I can say “Alexa turn on the cinema.” and it sequentially powers the speaker system, display screen, amplifiers, etc. and sets the lights to an appropriate level.”
Not all of it was a problem looking for a solution but it is a very tidy way of solving one problem whilst adding nice bells and whistles to the whole arrangement.
The relays are fine, they are only switching a single connection and it's ac. Look at some of the specs of such relays, and you will find that current ratings of 10A to 20A are avaiable in very tiny packages. eg 21.2 x 20.6 x 16mm for a 20A relay picked out at random.
The biggest issue is that the relays have to be powered on all the time and that means some dissipation will need to be accounted for. Bi-Stable relays could overcome that, but introduce other issues,
Remote sockets are VERY useful for a lot of things, especially those daft items of kit with the power switch on the back, when once installed it awkward to get at! Remote access power switched have been used for years in comms systems where you might need to power cycle a system remotely in some situations
Andy
I've never quite understood the inclination to fill a house with security flaws and fire hazards. Maybe that's just me though.
@Jannie Kirsten I don't dispute that people will do it and indeed have and will continue to do so. I just think they are misguided.
@Jannie Kirsten
Do you know who instilled a lot of that fear of AC? Let's just say he didn't actually invent the light bulb...
@@tin2001 Topsy the elephant (along with the countless other animals Edison electrocuted) would agree.
Nope,your not alone on that one, plus I generally try to keep my mind and body active, I have absolutely no desire or need for a hand held controller to tell the oven to turn on when the latest episode of crap has just finished and to alert the fridge that I have just taken the chicken out and I have now run out of chicken.
I use a lot of such devices for security purposes. You have to balance risks.
Well, it's got the other problem of being an internet-connected wall socket, but that doesn't appear to be a design flaw in their eyes
LOL true who would want the internet having access to a plug socket.
So on top of the shock risk we get an increased fire risk and it's obsolete in a few years. Great stuff.
@@dcallan812 the problems are planned obsolescence, because it will outlive the "cloud service" its probably connected to and for the takeover scenario, there have been bot-nets built entirely from IOT devices, so you would give away bandwidth to criminal activities.
Some people use network connected outlets (usually of the plug-in kind instead of the built-in kind) as a remote kill switch for when a 3D printer has trouble and the operator is not near to stop it.
@@anessenator and if it's not well-secured, someone could break into it and rewrite the firmware, best case scenario being the socket is also part of a botnet, worst case being someone specifically targeting an individual and, say, forcibly turning off the power to a home medical device
I remember when I saw a BS1363 plug for the 1st. time, I thought that it was for industrial use because hers huge pins in comparison with NEMA plugs and from another standards, another surprise with them was when I discovered hers built-in ceramic fuses...
Greetings from Brazil!!!
Clive you missed the first part of the recall! At 1:21 you can clearly see that in the instructions leaflet they show only one of the earth lugs connected in the wiring diagram! (there is actually a small wiring diagram on the other side of the paper)
It's worse. It shows a brown wire going into the earth terminal.
@@BigClive Yeah, about that... Electrocution is always an option...!
I think we need to see a hot dog across that flash tester...
Not even close to enough amps...
Always test a new socket before installation!
I get into trouble for taking things apart before putting them in😅
Hardwiring any electronics into fixed house wiring is a really stupid idea.
Agreed. It should have a means of local isolation, even if it's a single pole switch to serve the electronics.
@@CableWrestler Yes, some of the USB sockets we have in caravans at work have one of the socket switches connected to the USB charging circuit. so turning off one of the sockets disconnects the USB charger (though I don't know if it's DP or SP switching).
Personally I like regular DP switched sockets from a reputable manufacturer. Redid all the sockets in my Grans old place with cheapo Crabtree Capitol sockets/switches/spurs and whilst they are not the best they are certialy built to some sort of standard. Plus I like their switched fused spurs with the neon in the tip of the switch.
I bought an American version of that and then thought, “what will I do when the USB supply fails?” Never installed it.
Connected directly to 32A supply without a fuse or safety device 😀
On total failure, the only thing stopping it drawing a full 32A continuous ring main current is that 1W wirewound resistor.
And once that goes black creating a new carbon tracking path, the full current is available to set fire to it.
Fuses have a purpose, but only if there is one...
I love clive's product recall autopsies. I knew it'd be an interesting one as soon as YT offered it to me! Thanks clive 👍🏻🇬🇧
In IOT, the S stands for security
And the R for Reliability, L for long life.. U for userfriendlyness, D for documentation and F for fireprotection... C for collaboration and N for norms.
And the T stands for "Things"
Just in time for my breakfast and coffee thanks for the quality video love recalled videos
I just don't trust smart switches/outlets or really even outlets with USB ports. I don't like the idea of having random circuit boards inside my wall, seems like a fire hazard compared to an analogue switch. I have a few smart bulbs around the house and I like those, but that's about as far as I'd go IOT wise
Yeah its a bit dangerous and the quality is unknown i would rather use a sepperate safe adapter that outputs 5v and has protected output to power the esp chip and relay
A lot of sockets do have two earth terminals for earthing to the back box. A line-earth fault can burn the fixing screws and lugs, and a direct tail to the back box provides a better, safer earth. Of course, this can be connected straight into the same terminal as the CPC, but anyone who's connected a spur will know how difficult it can sometimes be to fit three wires into one terminal (I have seen a model that had two L and two N terminals that makes this easier, but bizarrely still only had one E terminal 😵💫).
at 1:23 you can see a basic wiring image that is only using the earth next to the live and neutral terminals
And shows a brown (live) wire going into it.
I was once on the trip to smartify my home - when none of those products were available and my education as an EE came into place. But when I figured, what an effort it would be, avoiding the risk to burn down my home and then having a safety inspector stating "this is a non compliant installation - costs for the burned home are on you" - I just chose to not smartify my home as much as I initially wanted.
Today on "sounded good on paper" we see a dangerously smart wall socket.
That actually looks like a reasonably nice piece of kit. I wouldn't want one in my wall, but plonk the thing on the end of an extension cable and I can think of loads of uses for it (once earthed properly). Ideally I'd want to replace the firmware with something custom, but that might not be hard --- there are some handy-looking RX and TX pins on the bottom, which might connect to the ESP's UART. That chip's got either 1MB or 2MB of onboard flash, too.
You're right being worried about shady firmwares (and their cloud stuff) but this one and many other devices like this are based on an ESP chip thus can be flashed with a number of open source firmwares. Tasmota is perhaps the most famous one and it really unlocks the potential of these devices.
Another firmware is Home Accessory Architect which is specific for direct Apple HomeKit integration (this is the one I use and it works really well for me) and another is ESPHome.
Unfortunately these days some companies like Tuya have caught on the fact that a lot of people bought their devices but got rid of their cloud s**t and replaced the ESP based wifi modules with equivalents which are however not supported by these alternate firmwares. So now you need to do a bit more research or be ready to return the device if it doesn't have the right chip
what exactly do you unlock when you hack the power socket?
@@geremyis5191 in my case direct HomeKit integration without their apps or cloud. Also you can configure and use gpio if there are any and you want to expand capabilities.
With Tasmota you have Alexa/google home and you can also integrate these devices in home assistant which is a very powerful tool and again you keep control of your devices
@@geremyis5191 Less of unlock, more lock. You're no longer relying on a "cloud" (marketing speak for somebody else's server that they can stop at any time). Gives you full control over your own devices, for as long as you want, not a few years and suddenly they stop working unless you pay a subscription or have to update the hardware.
@@geremyis5191 In the case of my wall switches, the factory firmware does on/off and requires an Internet connection even for direct physical operation. With open firmware I can program patterns, such as double-tapping, to send an arbitrary message to an arbitrary device and it can receive messages from any source on my network. It doesn't require a server _at all,_ local or "cloud".
A slight downgrade in control security, perhaps, but I prefer to do the heavy lifting of securing a network on networking devices: routers, firewalls, switches, etc.. I think there's an access whitelist option, but I don't use it - their most common use in my experience is to lock _yourself_ out of a device.
Came to comment that there was a wiring diagram but you figured that out already.
I'm really not comfortable with this kind of thing being hard wired.
your entire mains installation is hard wired really. This is a design mess-up in a double socket, that can cause some rather serious issues. These SHOULD be caught on testing, but not everyone will spot the problem. The product should not have gone on sale in the first place in it's current form, so the big question is how did it pass approval?
I don't even like the sockets with USB chargers built into them. Not only are they guaranteed to fail at some point, they are invariably some poorly designed and built charger circuit that risks isolation and/or smoke/fire issues.
@@ferrumignis USB sockets can mask some earth leakage problems in your house wiring too. You'd have to disconnect them all & bridge the conductors to get correct readings on an EICR. Too much time & cost, so it isn't done by most sparks.
@@andye2005 Yeah I'm just trying to think of how many people this had to go through and make it all the way through validation and manufacturing and sale without _anybody_ seeing there was a problem. _Really_ makes you wonder.
I know of a seasoned electrician that transposed the the connections in a wall socket that was in an office of a laboratory.
Several years later, a cleaner unplugged a computer in the office and plugged it back into the miswired socket.
The computer died and sent mains down the RS232 network ,frying various lab analysers.
*Very expensive*
I don't recall if seasoning was used in the frying process.
To add insult to injury ,the electrician was the husband of one of the lab staff.
I didn't notice whether you tested if that USB socket had any connection to ground. Considering how people have been electrocuted through their headphones listening to something while a mobile device is being charged, I think it's essential
The USB outlets are isolated, just as they would be in a regular phone charger. Probably just as well; if they were tied to one of the ground terminals that was floating it would increase the chance of a dangerous fault condition if an earthed appliance was plugged in.
I was almost worried I wouldn’t get a ‘one moment please’ in this video after the first pause 😮 but nope, Clive just kept us on the edge of our seats 😊
13:27 Back in the days of valves it was quite common for the first smoothing capacitor after the rectifiers to be fairly modest (8uF was common in Fender guitar amps) so the rectifiers saw less ripple current, with a more substantial reservoir capacitor (16 or 32uF - us Yanks loved multiples of 8 for "condensers" back then) after the choke. Go too big with that first capacitor and the cathode bonding wire acts like a fuse. No idea why they'd do this with low power solid state except, perhaps, "Tradition!"...or maybe knock down a harmonic resonance.
The difference now is that the inductor is much smaller in value so it only has significantly impedance at 10s of kHz and works into the MHz. No effect at 100 or 120Hz but keeps the PSU noise in.🙂
Doubles between each step, not just multiples of 8.
2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc
Ahh Clive! You should have torture tested it with a nice 4kw inductive load! Would have loved to see how many times you can cycle those relays before the weld themselves closed? Side note, always use the same terminal for looping in an accessory. Lowest amount of failure points as possible. Great tear down, thanks!
I always see that yellow magnet wire referred to as "triple insulated wire" or TIW. As far as I can tell it's the only compliant way to wind the secondary on those little SMPS transformers.
Thank you for explaining the background of the issue. That's something that I didn't know/thought about. Maybe that's why there are no installation instructions in the box so that only electrician install it that knows how to deal with it. At the same time, any DIYer can get it so there is a risk that it will be installed incorrectly. Really strange design choices not to include instructions, jump cable or any lable on the back of the device.
We do like a good recall product. So many jokes about the missing link. I
t is odd not to have the earths tied, randonJoe would just wire this the same way as "normal" sockets and have 1 side un-earthed. ⚡⚡We could put it down to Natural Selection.
Interesting video 2x👍
I've seen these cheap sockets that break neutral with the relay, not hot. Also, I recently saw some smart outlets with a recessed ground (about half an inch, 1.25cm). That's a risk, because a faulty device can have the case energized before the ground is connected. I have an outlet tester that specifically tests for a recessed ground, so it must be a common enough fault to design a test for.
at the 1:24, you can clearly see the wiring diagram which lacks the necessary instruction for the second ground connection.
Yes and it shows brown going to earth, brown in the uk being live. Earth is green, This is probably the reason for recall
Think it was MK who brought dual earth sockets out to satisfy some regulation about I.T. equipment about 25 years ago. The k2747 was standard and the K2746 had dual earths and outboard rocker switches. Now some cheapo sockets have dual earths although some are upside down compared to the line and neutral. Think the example in the video is a result of a foreign copy. Excellent videos thanks.
The dual earth sockets like the K2746 still have the earths tied together within the socket itself though. The two ground connections is for redundancy in the external wiring.
@@ferrumignis yes they should have continuity between the two earth terminals. If not it’s obviously not safe.
Shame about that design flaw, other than that (and the dubious idea of USB in a wall plate) it looks like a pretty reasonable smart outlet (with two relays which is awesome) and suitable for ESPHome or other custom firmware.
In my experience, those small relays have a tendency of catching fire.
@Keltic D My modern phone uses USB to to charge... Or are you making a comparison to USB-C? My phone came with a USB-C to A cable, and any phone with USB-C can be charged via USB-A right?
@Keltic D the problem isn't the A port, but that it isn't smart. Default USB, also Type C, will charge at 500mA if nothing is communicated between device and charger.
@Keltic D the majority of phones still pack cables with an A male on one end. Yes, c-c and lightning-lightning cables are growing more common but the most common cable is still a-c.
@Keltic D Doesn't matter if phones don't use USB-A ... there are millions of cables lying around that match your phone and have a USB A on the other end!
A lot of good grounding to a painted frame ;-)
I've got several TCP products in my house, luckily not one of those. The lights and remote plugs are very good so it's a shame to see how bad this is.
I still have 10+ year old CFL bulbs of theirs that just. Will. Not. Die. 😎👍 I hope their LED bulbs are as reliable (when I'll finally need them)
@@youdontknowme5969 Yeah, not a bad company. I had one of their plug-in ethernet extender kits years ago that used mains sockets. Later we upgraded to a BT system that was faster but more pernickerty. Gave it up when we went over to fibre optic internet with the router bang in the middle of our flat. Always wondered how safe mains-carried internet was, though
Excellent Clive thanks I have shared this on a neighbourhood page
Hey Clive. I’d love to see you strip down and figure out a “Medicur Electromagnetic Field Therapy Unit”. My mother has one and swears that it works for her but I’m pretty sure it’s just a box with some blinking lights and it actually does nothing. I can’t find a taredown of one anywhere. I might be able to temporarily disassemble my mothers and take some pics.
Just looked that up, it absolutely screams "scam" to me and the price is astonishing at around £200.
@@ferrumignis yes absolutely, I couldn’t believe when my mother bought it. I know the placebo effect works and if it makes her feel better then great but I’d like to figure out what (if anything) it does. There are a fair number of reviews of people who were desperate and spent so much money hoping it would help them and got no result from it at all :/
@@bend1483 Stuff like this makes me angry, preying on desperate people is such a scummy thing. Getting hold of one to take apart may be a challenge.
@@ferrumignis I agree as well! I’d happily send my mothers to Clive but she wouldn’t be happy!
I found something similar recently in French, but can't find it now. It was a small device, but rather expensive.
Then there is czcams.com/video/6H_4gPWEqgM/video.html from Play with Junk.
And for teardowns (in French) on nice and also cheaty stuff look at czcams.com/users/dexsilicium
The metal screw holes on either side was connected to individual Earth connections. If screwed in properly, the Earth connections would have continuity
Only if it was a metal back box ...
Sadly the metal plate they sat against was painted, which means that a connection would be by luck.
In the USA, duplex outlets never have more than one ground terminal. I think the reason why is that they don't want the ground to be interrupted if the outlet is removed or damaged. You have to splice all the grounds in the box together with a wire nut, crimp sleeve or a WAGO.
People should do that with the hots and neutrals too!
@@MrSleepProductionsInc Duplex receptacles however are designed to let you split them into isolated receptacles so one can be switched and the other always on.
@@MrSleepProductionsInc At a minimum they should use the screw terminals instead of those awful backstab terminals. I've seen where electricians use the backstab AND the screw terminals (most common on a switch) just to avoid pigtailing.
Actually isolated ground receptacles do have. One grounds the actual socket and the other provides the ground contact.
@@okaro6595 One's a ground connection, one's an isolated ground connection. They're different, not connected together in the outlet.
Those relays look like the same (or similar) ones that I recently salvaged out of an old Microwave when converting it to a spot welder, they were also rated at 16 amp.
I don't care for having wifi switches or built in USB power supplies as a fixture, but it's not because of hackers. Either one is likely to fail long before a standard switch or receptacle. Just for my own ease of replacement, I prefer to use smart bulbs and plug in smart outlets, and USB adapters. I guess it just makes me a lazy tech geek instead of a modern one! 😆
I can't agree more. I rather have a few plug-in smart outlets (that also usually have a power button on them as well) and smart bulbs just because of the failure chances. Also as the SysAdmin of a site hit daily by thousands of compromised devices being used as a bulletproof proxy, I am beyond wary of having Internet of Sh*t devices. With plug-in devices, being able to just kill it instantly is doubly appealing.
Judging by the copper wiring coming from each socket to the plate, it looks like the manufacturers expected these to be bolted to a metal frame box for grounding purposes.
TCP was designed to be reliable, ordered and error-checked!
Of course, I'm speaking of the Transmission Control Protocol, of course.
As a disabled person, smart home stuff is invaluable, but I generally tend to have devices plugged into a regular socket, just because if all goes wrong it can be unplugged, even though it is more ugly. I can see why they recalled that, the ease of installing that badly is shocking! It's a shame that most of the Tuya based (like TCP Smart, Aldi, Poundland etc) smart devices are all wifi that need the internet to work (usually, there are ways around that) but these days I'm tending to go for Zigbee stuff that I can control locally (doesn't depend on internet, and it doesn't connect to a naughty privacy violating server). That's something I might have missed (the non-continuous earth) although I do tend to test cables and devices for continuity/fuses or if they've used cheap CCA cables (horrible!) and our RCD both at the db and with a socket RCD tester I have, thanks to the knowledge I've gained from people like you over the years! I really appreciate it
I don't really agree with this being grounds (no pun intended) for a recall, it will just create tons of e-waste for basically nothing, instead they could just have informed the public that a jumper is needed, and further, issued a correct wiring diagram plus a free jumper for every customer.
Besides that anyone who messes around with mains voltage must know you need to test your work and thus would have found out that the earth terminals aren't interconnected and thereupon would have re-wired it accordingly.
How many people would have bothered to either fit the jumper themselves (if they had the ability) or pay for an electrician to do it? A recall was the only sensible option here, as much as I hate waste.
Any decent electrician would've con-checked both those earth terminals, but electrical regs are written to the lowest common denominator & in this respect, you can't release a product that doesn't show this in the instructions in bold text & is also repeated in bold text on the rear of the unit (perhaps even with an included earth-bar pre-installed between the earth's. If it requires common-sense to be fitted safely it is inherently unsafe.
@@ferrumignis
Requires less effort than ripping it out and putting in a new one honestly.
I'm an industrial electrician, I occaisionally get involved in sockets, I wouldnt have thought twice about the earth sides not beng connected, but I will from now on.
That was quick!
Some things are irresistible to explore.
Yeah- I’d be happy to use that with a proper earth bridge.
In any event, I ALWAYS check earths, AND correct active/neutral after doing any fixed wiring.
It must be OK its got a CE sticker on it
Thought I saw some reference to wiring in the instructions at 1:23. Bottom row 2nd from the left image seems to show the rear of the unit with wires illustrated..
That was pointed out afterwards. And shows a brown (live) wire going into the earth terminal.
Shocking (literally) that such a basic and dangerous error has been made by a fairly reputable manufacturer
I wonder if their manufacturer changed something unexpectedly mid run.
@@BigClive I was thinking the same thing... Perhaps the engineer expected the metal frame to tie the two earths together (via the screws)? And then someone else decided it should be painted, which ruined the connection.
@@BigClive They mention the installation instruction, so maybe they specced a big warning label on the back to bond both connections...
@@bbgun061 Beat me to it. I think this is probably what happened.
From a security POV IOT is still somewhat wild west - even basic things such as secure (signed) boot are not in place, despite being fairly easy to implement.
Also if anyone has these & is using them knowing the limitations it is probably best to loop the earth through both terminals (So in one, link from 1 to 2, out of 2) as that way any electrical circuit test tests the full path - if the 3 wires-in-one and a link across is used the link isn't tested by that sort of test.
At least the ones I've seen in the US, pretty much all of those wifi outlets seem poorly made. Especially the cheapo no-name ones that can be found on Amazon that aren't UL listed. They're probably fine for a lamp, but I've seen people use them with space heaters and window air conditioners and it just seems like you're asking for a fire running cheap no-name Chinese relays at 100% all the time.
Although I wonder if the same basic design is actually somewhat safer in 230V countries. A 15 amp load in the US is only a 7.5A load for you, after all. (Give or take a bit) Much less stress on those little cheapo relays, I'd assume.
The most common ones are just as bad. But you can get good ones from "old and respectable" companies nowadays, but then you pay about 50-100 Euros per (single port) outlet.
Also, outlets are rated 13A (UK) or 16A (CEE) and there are appliances that use that extra power. So no, not much gained there...
I've seen the Hive brand smart plugs overheat and turn themselves off with a red flashing light when running a full 13A load. I guess they must have a temp sensor inside for the relay to shut it off before it catches fire...
@@connerlabs I suppose thats a good thing. But I'd argue that if it's rated for 13 amps, it should be able to take 13 amps indefinitely. But at least the under-rated components won't burst into flames at least.
There's a few heavy duty appliances I've wanted to control with smart outlets. Like the window air conditioner in my garage (pre chill it before I go out to work) but I couldn't trust those wifi outlets to handle the load. I instead rigged up a contactor with a 120v coil that I connected to a cheap wifi outlet, so the contactor does the heavy lifting and the smart switch just has to handle a few watts to latch the contactor.
Well this was useful, I shall be testing earth continuity across any unfamiliar outlets from now on
6:42
Rule number one: USB ports in outlets are bad because they can fail, burn, often don‘t deliver (close to) 5V and generally are slow.
Rule number two: A outlet with some relays most likely will fail 10 times faster compared to a normal outlet.
I have some outlets with USB ports in them and so far they've lasted longer than some plug-in USB power supplies I've had in the past. I think the difference is that these outlets are made by Eaton and cost about $15 a piece, so the USB power supply within is probably better quality.
@@brianleeper5737 I have had one USB power strip (failed, probably capacitor or switching chip) and have another one from IKEA which only outputs 4V rendering it useless for most applications.
Most USB supplies lasted like 5 years, I have some that are 8 years old.
I suspect that secondary winding on the transformer is actually *triple* enamelled wire (TEW). Very safe !
On a normal double 13A socket the earth link is visible, to the screw holes etc. Not being able to see the whole earth link imediatly rings alarm bells !
The point about no earth link between the two terminals being possibly to avoid blocking the wifi signal is not valid as it would make no difference with the socket fitted to a normal metal pattress box !
With the grounds separated, you could make one socket standard ground and other an "isolated" ground. an example of the need for an isolated ground would be in a sound booth where you have all the electronic devices such as lighting and computers using the standard ground, but you only plug the sound board into the isolated grounding circuit to help ensure noise doesn't get into the sound system.
Of course I'm sure they didn't have that in mind when they made that device.
You normally have the isolated grounding socket with a green dot and if there are two sockets the both would be isolated. I forget but I think hospital grade has an orange dot and the completely orange sockets used indicate that they are able to provide emergency power.
I would have tested the connection between earth's if failed would kick it back for replacement
Only to get another one
I absolutely love your videos, Clive. I've watched almost everything on your channel and I've learnt so much. Always entertaining, honest and informative reviews. Love it 👍🏼
IOT just screams please make part of a bot net. the security from name brands is lax, random brands are even worse.
The King has returned once again.
Just wondering if you were to connect both "earth" connections would the lug or terminal where the jumper is added be rated for two wires under one lug or screw? I suppose you could tail it out.
I guess just need to do what you needto do to make it safe.
This is an American electrical code thing. In the UK you can stuff as many wires as will physically fit in the hole and nobody bats an eyelid.
Sounds like the mix up of Brown and Brown into the same terminal is technical/graphic design issue, where QA checks for the manuals got blurred between two different countries wiring codes. I have similar issue in our IoT work we do trying to fact check every possible thing, with the exception we don't work with any voltages over 50volts - so there isn't really a big liability. I feel these IoT products for mains control shouldn't be in the power point behind the wall, nothing wrong with fitting a smart plug piggy back in - less risk of someone putting an heater into the power point too. Very interesting and scary video :)
The weaknesses with IoT products is that they are dependent on a server and app, which will disappear when the company ceases to exist or decides they don't want to support that product anymore. There is nothing better than directly controlled circuits.
US IoT firm Insteon just vanished off air in the past week and all the board have edited their LinkedIn profiles to either remove any reference or to say they left.
@@tinplategeektoo good to know. And then everyone with an app dependent device from them is left hanging 🙄.
@@masteryoda394 In this case, it seems (so far) to be only if they reset a device then that device fails as it needs the Insteon registration server to reset. Seems that the devices can be added to the open-source software Home Assistant so some users may have a work around.
But still not good as many people may not have the skills to set-up an open-source based platform at home or may have ruined the devices by resetting them when they spotted an issue with the IoT services.
@@tinplategeektoo exactly my point. In some systems you lose all functionality since they only have the remote server option
This is why these ESP based units are regularly re-flashed with either Tasmota or ESPHome, with both being non-internet, local only protocols; so fully isolated from the internet.
5:20 'I shall use brute force'
Clive, we expect nothing less. Lol.
I would never want a SMPSU permanently connected to a 30A circuit in my house wiring, but if for some reason I did want something like this I'd want to add a connection from the low voltage side of the SMPSU to the mains earth.
I would hope it would be adequately protected from a short but from experience these would never be totally reliable and would only use them for non critical equipment.
Great summary Clive, you miss nothing. This is why we do test certificates for new and existing installs, but early test both sides of a double socket with a plug in tester. 50-50 chance of finding it
I was wondering as well.
In Germany its forced by law to test all new or changed installs by a certified testing service.
The licensed testers work automatically and will find any and all faults associated with these sockets
i feel smart sockets always seem to have more issues than any other.
Because they’re designed by computer hobbyists in a non-standards-aware country - not qualified electrical component designers.
This seems like a tremendous engineering oversight that is such a simple problem.
If I can't unplug it, I don't want it in my walls, I just don't trust there being always-on electronics connected directly to a 32 Amp ring, if it's of "cost-reduced" construction, whose to say that it won't go bang and start a fire in the wall? I just don't trust sockets with electronics inside...
Given that most people leave things pluged in all the time, I wonder if the house fire hazard is higher inside the box, or on the outside of the wall? Electrical boxes are designed to contain the fire afterall, and who knows what nearby fuel might be near the socket outside of the wall?
I'm not saying your wrong, it just makes me wonder.
@@animefreak5757 The handy part about something that is plugged in is you can readily switch it off and/or unplug it if something goes boom, for something integrated into the wall, you'd need to shut off the circuit or the whole house at the distribution board to isolate it, I'd prefer the easier option...
@@twocvbloke if you happen to be there and catch it yes, thus the first line in my previous comment.
Saw this recall notice on the wall at Argos while waiting for an order. Should be good for 4kv as the user can handle the USB socket.
As somome who have spent first 25 years of my life living in Eastern European old-style Soviet apartment buildings without ANY ground connectivity at all (grounding was not a part of Soviet electrical safety code - soviet time IEC sockets didn’t even had a grounding pins), I don’t see a problem here. All my youth I used the most terrible Soviet-made appliances that has little-to-no electrical safety measures at all AND no ground pins in sockets, and have never received anything but the faintest shock in worst case fault scenario. This whole “hazard” thing is a bit overrated…
@Artúrs Savickis Just because we have done something for decades means it is the best way to do it. There are multiple good reasons for installing an effective grounding (return to source) system. No dissrespect to Soviet technology, but I have to dissagree regarding total lack of a grounding system.
You must forgive those west born snowflakes. They are made of more conductive skin and have more fragile nerves. Checking a 4.5V battery with their tongue would send them to the emergency room.
Anyone who grew up in the East has received enough electric shocks in childhood to make us immune to it, some of us even like it. If it gives us an electric shock it means it is modern and futuristic - something to be proud of!
Friends: don't be afraid of electricity! Embrace the future! Receive your first electric shock today.
(SCNR)
To be fair: accidents were much more common in those times. It just didn't make national news, because it was considered part of life.
Similarly in Spain up to about 40 years ago. Even now in Europe (ex UK) now polarised sockets are standard with no switches.
_"in Soviet Union my comrade, you shock the current..."_
@@alanpatterson2384 He was talking about grounding, not polarization. Polarization is kinda a moot point since all outlets are AC and breakers in the past 30 years cut both poles, so it's not a huge issue. Also you can't generalize about Europe, as AFAIK some countries require phase and neutral to respect a wiring otrder. Other doesn't but as I said, those countries also usually have RCI and breakers that both separate live and neutral.
As for switches, it is really and probably will remain an UK only thing.
06:50, totally justified. I was given code to review once for a mobile app and the fin product had the email address of one of the outsourced developers, listed as a secondary recipients for email queries send through the site 🙈! Also, motherboards with preinstalled malware I've heard is a thing.
Edit: Perhaps the metal bracket wasn't meant to be painted/coated. I may be wrong but it seems those tabs would otherwise be making contact. Still not exactly 💯...
They could have put a flat earth strip on the back of the socket for earthing.
I still don't like the idea of circuits in sockets, they could burn up.
A charger built into a socket is on all the time, not my cup of tea.
Wait. Flat earth is not real. That's why you can't put a strip of it on anything!
Okay, I'll see myself out now...
@@KonradTheWizzard lol yes you see yourself out, How could you see yourself out... two mirrors maybe?
A very good day to you all from Wellington Somerset
How annoying that the most important terminals aren't interconnected. How can such bad design have been approved for production.
I'm wondering this question myself. My guess is the manufacturer didn't want to pay the 20 cents per outlet for a substantial copper strip to connect the two outlets. I am surprised this passes code as it is.
@@rotaxtwin Penny wise pound foolish.
5:16
Me at the beginning of a repair project: "I will be careful."
Me 1 minute into a repair project: "I shall use brute force."
As someone who’s worked in electrical supplies for nearly 20 years now I can confirm to everyone TCP makes nothing but absolute cheap garbage
I doubt they are even the manufacturer, probably just import them and slap their name on them
Chineseum crap 😠
@@JordyValentine well they import the absolute biggest pieces of garbage they can so they must have a real sense of pride lol
Worse than BG? 😂
@@JordyValentine Then if they are the first importer, place them on the market and have their name on them, they are legally considered to be the "Manufacturer" and are responsible for the compliance with the relevant regulations.
"We are going to take this apart" Sounded like a gentle threat😈