POND SOIL BUCKET TEST! Will This Test Answer Our Pond Seepage/Leakage Questions? Step by Step!
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2023
- The experts at Natural Waterscapes suggested using a Bucket Test to determine how much bentonite we need to incorporate into the soil to seal the pond. Tractor Time with Tim ran 2 tests on what we thought was our best and worst soil. The results were shocking. Time to rethink everything!
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You are the guy that knows when to ask for help and take it . Best of luck on that decision on what is next.
Always being open to new information is the key. A new video and I’ve learned more about ponds than I ever imagined. Thanks for sharing the journey.
Wow! Sometimes you think you have something figured out and it's totally opposite of what you expected. The tests are definitely worth the Time.
I would of never had thought that building a pond could be this interesting. You dig a hole and water fills in. Yet, there is a lot more to it and I'm learning a lot. Thanks for sharing the process.
Thanks Brad. We were afraid folks were tired of it.
Not tired of it at very informative
I like and appreciate the real world approach. Hind site is 20/20, you approach as 99% of us would and you did the learning for us. Thank you!
Sometimes being a DYIer can cause you more time and money than if an expert was called in the first place. I'm glad that you found these folks before you started to fill the pond. As you said you can grow grass next spring. A winter Rye or an annual Rye will hod the soil till next spring too.
Wow. Very cool...that's why they play the game indeed. Who would have thunk it?
Great information! Excellent episode
I’m a believer in bentonite. We made a pond in our gravel pit to hold water for the wash plant and we just took the dozer and made a big crater in a pile of sand and gravel lined it with 3-4 inches of bentonite and filled it with water and it holds. It cost a pretty penny to buy all the bentonite but it holds water. I’ve also seen farmers use bentonite to seal leaking irrigation ponds they just dump the bentonite right into the pond and it’ll settle to the bottom of the pond and seal the leaks.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing guys.
I would have never guessed thats how it would have went. Glad you found out now instead of after filling it up. It will be great when its done.
Very interesting! I enjoyed the thorough testing!
Tim and Christy great job. It's absolutely fascinating what you have discovered. However, it's a huge step to building a sound pond to enjoy for years to come.
I think you are going to really enjoy your pond
Interesting results with the bucket test. It will sure help with the next steps that need to be taken to seal the pond.
WOW Tim, this is flat out fascinating on the science part, learned a lot about testing soil!
Hate seeing you basically having to start from square one on the levee, hope you can come up
with an adequate and not too tough solution.
Wow Tim and Christy, I’m learning right along on your pond journey as you discover new information. Once again proving that “we don’t always know what we think we know”, and I’m glad I didn’t bet on the outcome of your test. BTW, if I would have been there, I would have had my handy little tape measure with me😉. Blessings.
Yep! Needed your tape measure!
Great video.
Now I never seen that one coming can’t wait to see what’s next 😊
Tim, so glad you have gotten to the place where you can now move forward with the completion of your pond and you are armed with the knowledge and confidence in the final solution to do so. The one thing that I always do on any project no matter what it is, is have a few soil Borings done and some lab work to go with it. I look at it like I’m buying the answers to the test I’m about to take. But I must say that without my 42 year background in heavy industrial construction projects all across this country I would have done exactly the same and started my pond without any consultant input. I’m really really happy this group has help you two so much. I now have them in my Rolodex for my future needs should any of this type arise. This content IS GREAT !! 👍👍🔥🔥
Great stuff 👏
Neat video. Very informative! Good luck with coming up with a lining material!
Go Christy! Go Christy! My husband sits here and says it doesn’t matter just before Tim said it, and I’m looking at him in victory as you go get the measuring tape, then when the mud stuck to the brick and you said you had an idea, I yelled Saran Wrap and there you walk in with it! I did a fist pump! Sisters at heart!
Love it! Glad you guys enjoyed the banter. We had a good time with it!
This is a great video, great example of how testing should be part of planning. Your trials and tribulations have been enlightening when compared other excavating channels who seem to have perfect results each time. They do have more specialized and heavier equipment to get the results. I hope this solves the leakage, I look forward to seeing it completed.
Good thing you tested before filling. Depending on the cost of the bentonite, I wouldn't go the the time and trouble to rework the pond.
Very interesting! I would have never thought of doing this test. Super excited to see what you do next. Could you just rake the bentonite in the soil by hand or does it need to go 6" deep? Seems like treating the existing banks with bentonite would be much easier than switching the soils at this point. Staying tuned...
Very informative. Good lesson learned - don't make assumptions .
Well, even without bentonite I now know how to test my soil's drainability. This was a very useful video!
This was super interesting, thanks for sharing. I do feel for yu' for sure needing to swap out material like that. Huge project. Mixing in all that bentonite would be a big PITA too. Ugh! Whatever you're going to do, do it quick before water starts falling from the sky.
I’ve never seen anybody’s bucket list. Go this way. Two to each their own.
i would try a mix of the two soils without bentonite ...to see if the yellow can stabilize the blue
Well, old boy, you have my head spinning 😮.
What I’ve discovered thru your process is I have ZERO interest in putting in my own pond, but surely enjoy seeing you build yours.
Hey Tim!! I don't remember what BamaBass used to seal his pond but he already had water in it.
Use the rotortiller to mix in the bentonite
Oh my, talk about a plot twist! I’m looking forward to seeing your solution. Sorry to see a well thought out plan falling apart, but it’s better to find out now than thinking you were all done and having to start back at square one… I’m sure the frustration is daunting, but you’ll get there in the end and learn more than you thought you were going to once you get across the finish line. Keep your spirits up, it’s just dirt… now you know one thing for sure, there’s different kids of dirt 😅
Tim, I'm surprised Christie allowed you to cross-contaminate the samples by using the same tamper... 😉
Tim, jump on moving around a lot dirt yet.. work with the bentonite at higher rate.. I do dirt work and have in on bentonite job.. use ur tiller on the tractor to mix it in..
Tim I did a water filter project for my 9th grade science class which I got the top marks with natural rocks gravels and sand my filter made the muddy water the clearest that was actually drinkable with the ventrac and the Harley rake to smooth the sides and bottom out and then mix the 6 pound mixture using the ventrac to mix the stuff in the soil
It’s funny about that sand, I had similar sand hauled in to backfill an area near my garage then topcoat with gravel. It’s a putty type sand and it holds water like no tomorrow! After it rains it will hold puddles of water for 3 days! Never thought it would because well, it’s SAND!
Interesting, really hope it works for you
Pray about it God will help u out / give you your answer it works/✨I know u know Tim ✨✨ Take care, Tim
fantastic episode on a new topic
Tim the blue clay could have leaked out from a micro-annulus when you moved the buckets from the shop. The clay holds it's shape and the handle will ovalize the bucket, when you carry it, and leave a tiny gap. As the clay and bentonite hydrate the tiny gap seals up. The sand has much more friction, as you noticed, and resists the ovalization and no gap. We have this issue in the oilfield with cement. I am no expert but the blue clay should be fine with NO bentonite. Repeat that test but don't move the bucket after final compaction. I would do it without bentonite too. FYI Our red clay here in Texas will hold water when wet without leaking which saves our pond.
Great to see Christy so animated and active....
6 days in…with 4lbs bentonite, blue clay is holding. With NO Bentonite, yellow stuff started leaking at 40 hrs.
Good stuff. Christie was funny with her approach. It’s like I was in chem class. Like how much more delicious does she want chic-filet to be?
Thanks for sharing your humaneness
That was some pretty cool testing. Now you will have a good direction to go. Now it’s the matter of cost and time.😢.
A little bentonite clay goes a long way. That's why we use it in the oilfield. it seals the well bore as we drill. It seals the pores.
Interesting I wonder if the bentonite will allow the ground water hydraulic into the pond then act like a check valve not allowing it to drain back when the water table drops in dry weather I know it works to seal ponds we use it in the mining industry but just pour it on top of the water over a week or so as the level come up hmm time will tell God bless
Tim I'm not a geologist/ecologist but your buckets are mini-models of your pond. The soil at the bucket bottom to replicate compacted materials at the pond bottom and sides. You are doing percolation testing. Also surprised that the company did suggest doing a 'control' as another commenter mentioned. That's good scientific methodology and what Christy refers to as doing it right! You may want to check out LetsDig18 and DirtPerfect youTube channels. As they both do a lot of ponds (DP is doing one right now) and both do an excellent job of explaining why they line the sides of the pond/dam with good clay like it looks like you have (not the blue). As you observed when you flipped the buckets (like a slump test) the clay was dry at the bottom and you could see the water penetration zones from muck (top) to dry clay (bottom) like your pond will be like when filled. Just as you sought knowledge, you may have to recognize that you need help with quick application of a clay lining to the sides of your pond. Glad you're still finding learning opportunities. And yes Christy has great insights. Best to you kind Sir.
Pick up some cheeseburgers an call dirt perfect.
Good video Tim, you are on the right path. Did water ever leak out the bottom of the blue clay bucket? The reason I ask is because a clay is going to have way more absorption capacity than the sandy material. So perhaps the perceived drop in water was due to more of it being absorbed.
Yes, it leaked.
Oh boy what a lot more work now for you but more entertaining pond videos for us though. May be time just to bring in the pool guys and spray it with gunite.
As an old lab worker, was that a calibrated measuring cup? 😊 Doing these jar test (or bucket) was always interesting how increasing or decreasing certain doses affected the out come of the test. I always enjoyed doing some of these test. Chemicals are always expensive and saving money on chemical usage is always a good thing. Sometimes vendors would bring samples into our plant and brag how much money we would save. Most of the time jar test showed just the opposite.
I'm sure you are well past and almost done, but I would be tempted myself to pull the "blue clay" out and mix it with the yellow and some bentonite, remoisten it to the point it could be smeared back on the side. I'm basically thinking like mixing a concrete mix. Probably wouldn't work, but my thought.
I sure would love to know the size of the holes in that bucket! And maybe how many there are. I could check my dirt at home with a regular 5 gallon bucket. Smart move on checking the soils Tim!!
Shouldn’t matter, right? More holes is better.
The advice and support I received from Natural Waterscapes has been more than worth the price of the bucket! Also, the pre-measured bentonite bags are helpful.
Question. Was there yellow soil under the area you put the blue clay?
just a thought... you put the clay on top of the yellow soil...so the clay might not stop the water for the first few feet, but then the yellow stuff below it will stop the water....does that make sense? The other thing you could do is make the pond a little bigger and put the yellow stuff on top of the clay, seems like you only need 8" of the yellow...
My wife too looses enthusiasm after day three of any project. You have gone way past that. I'm enjoying the updates none the less. And.. I'm never coming over for 'Mud Pies with Tim'. Way over thinking it. Oppenheimer would be proud.
Tim
Pond is starting to resemble an open pit mine. Check for valuable minerals before you fill with water.
Pete Hutzel
So that you don't have to move a lot of dirt, could you put a liner down?
Absolutely not
Tim, you say: "Yes, dear"
Tim my neighbor bought a lot of sand a d lined his pond with it. I thought it was to make it like a beach. But I found out just yesterday it was to stop leakage. See sand will fill in small seep holes in soil because of it's small grain like texture to weight ratio.
Sorry, I didn't know this before.
You should have johnny-x do some hay making see if it would do better than the 1025R
15:15, the quality control supervisor uses the proper tool for the job!!!!
Perhaps the clay doesn't mix uniformly with the bentonite and "channels" of blue clay than can let water run remain. GOOD LUCK!!
Much like a perc test for backyard waste digester.... The Yellow sand has siO2 sand and clay. The Blue clay is unique. I'd add Bentonite on it all. Then there isn't this and that and missed over there.
Maybe cover the clay with the yellow to help with sealing? I can't see re-excavating all the blue back out.
Unless Natual Waterscapes is giving you the clay, you might want to shop around. Their price was over $90/50lbs. I found Benseal bentonite for $15.50 locally!
Look at the bulk sizes…especially at volume…22 tons is pretty competitive.
@@TractorTimewithTim Here in Colorado the demolition company gives away soil heavy in bentonite. They have to remove it when digging foundations as it heaves and damages foundations. Their pile is massive.
Tim did you test the plasticity of the soil? Clay at optimum moisture should roll between your hands and not break apart. Silty clay will break into crumbs. Sand will not stick together . To be waterproof you will need a very plastic soil.
I'm only 20 minutes in, and am looking forward to seeing/hearing more on this, but as of now, I have a couple of concerns regarding the test methods. 1. using "3 cups of water" to initiate the mix sounds a bit unscientific, humbly speaking. Because what if it had just rained heavily for a week when you scooped up the soil, and conversely what if you had been in a draught for the past 3 months when you scooped it? One scenario could have 2-3 times the water, or possibly even more incorporated into the initial mix. This could, at least in my mind affect the outcome of the seepage test.
2. Mixing the bentonite evenly and thoroughly into either soil, I believe will not give you real world results when you go to finally try to seal your entire pond.
While you were surprised by the initial result, I wasn't. Although it can often be hard to tell by seeing dirt on video, the "blue clay" you thought would hold up well, actually looked quite loamy to me, meaning it was probably much higher in organics than the sandy mix.
Also, from my own years of research and experimentation, I've found that mixing sand and clay will pretty much always end up with a product that can act very much like cement. When the sand is alone, water can race through it, but when each little particle becomes coated in the sticky clay, they bond together, creating an almost impenetrable layer, for both roots and water.
The reason I think mixing them thoroughly for this test, could in fact be a waste of time, or potentially even cause you more heart and back aches is because in the real world, most people will likely be relegated to just putting a top coat of bentonite on top of their sandy dirt. If you can get machinery or enough butts and elbows to thoroughly mix the top 6-8 inches of your pond bottom and walls, then more power to you. But in the real world, I see a lot of people just sprinkling the bentonite as a top dressing, and in that case the results could be very different from what you got from the bucket test. Because in such a scenario, you would probably need much more bentonite if you were simply top dressing, as the bentonite itself will be the doing most of the work when they aren't blended together. Whereas you "blue clay" which looked loamy to me, may not need as much bentonite to seal, if using as a top dressing only.
In my mind, you would need to figure out exactly what you are planning to do, then conduct your experiment as such. For example, if you are just using bentonite as a top coat, then run that experiment in the buckets.
Anywho, sorry if my comment was long winded, and thank you all the same for this upload. I do find this type of content to be quite fascinating. And again, looking forward to more on this 😊👍
Some good commentary here.
However, most of these concerns are addressed going forward in the following videos. Check out our playlist on the pond. Start at the video you just watched and proceed from there.
TTWT Pond Project
czcams.com/play/PLuUZ6lo0MDxDfN4AhAMXiMI4pphLC0jfa.html
Also, check out this website where naturalwaterscapes.com/ttwt responds to our test by changing and clarifying their instructions. Wonderful partner for us!
Kitty litter and kitties what more could you ask for.
👍👍
👍🏻👍🏻
they sprinkle betonite directly on the soil normally... your pond could have been "treated" as it was i think. over here in Quebec, Canada, Betonite isnt available to everybody, only specialist and well expert normally
Lol, great fun, excellent knowledge. We chemist stick together. Lol, lol. So I guess you spread and then tile it with a tiller? The ocean holds water, lol, that’s sandy😆. absolutely loving the scientific method. This is why we men need a wife. 😉🙂 depending right, if the bentonite does work, then you could mix it with the blue clay in six to eight inch lifts compacting and placing each lift. With a misting of water before tilling. It won’t be too bad, and looks like a lot of fun. Remember, if the sun is too much you can tint the glass in the excavator with as light or as dark a tint as you like. Man! Who knew, science works. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😉🎊 we will have a great pond. Hey DP, Chris, there’s a new kid on the block. 🤣🙂 you are cooking with gas now. Great work!
Now we known where the brains of this company are
We’ve ALWAYS known that!
Holy cats. That’s quite a turn of events. 🤦🏻♂️
Tim I think your clay has gotten silty over the years and turned into the yellow stuff
I think that darker stuff is actually mostly pond muck
And here I am, just using Joan to knock a hole in the ground...
The only advantage of our soils in NC is that we have plenty of clay to make good dams. Never would I have thought it would be this difficult to make a pond.
TTWT does not work on their website
There is no discount,but our info is at http;//naturalwaterscapes.com/ttwt
so it looks like you are not going with the pig poo sealing method
Getting the cats to hold their breath while using the bathroom will be the real trick. Ours aren't drawn to water in the beginning.
just use concrete Jed Clampett.... CEMENT POND!
Looks like your going to have to add alot of bentonite or redue your whole pond lol
🇨🇦
I told you from the beginning that you had to use pond seal from stop losing water. I know you probably it from so these so called experts that never did ponds or ground bases
Hmm. I searched your comment history. I see no such comment. Just some comments about the ground water…which are incorrect.
@@TractorTimewithTim I had made a couple comments rhe one I said that Stoney Ridge Farm had the sam3 problem with his pond losing water. He used this stuff in a 5 gal bucket that he threw into the water that seals the pond and doesn't hurt the fish in the pond. Maybe if you check his video on that then you can get the name of the stuff.
@@malcolmlinch9681ok, I remember now, even though the search didn’t find it.
Yea, the experts told me that the stuff he used would not be the best fit for my situation.
They sell it too, so not a self interest statement on their part.
These guys know more about ponds than Stoney Ridge.
A dollar bill in your wallet is 6 inches and can be used for rough measurements. Mixing is like making thick gooey bread dough times! So check soil before moving dirt and its best to have consistent soil before doing any digging
Add 4 lbs/sq foot to the whole pond
Watch the 12,000 lbs episode :-) that is a start.
What u thought was sand probably isnt sand
Tim that so called clay must have a high sediments level and actually not much actual clay. I did warn of that.
You need controls! No bentonite.
What do you mean?
@@TractorTimewithTim you need to do tests with no Bentonite. That way you can see if it actually does anything. That is a control. Maybe the sand or clay would hold water without bentonite. Maybe a thicker layer of sand or clay would do just as well as bentonite.
@@jackbrunner4126 done. The sand held for 40 hours without bentonite.
The blue is holding still…after 6 days with 4 lb.
Some of that will be shown next episode.
Tim you should really consider editing the video and removing the county name and road number from the satellite photo from natural waterscapes
Oh well!
No point, Anyone who's determined can figure out where someone lives. Public records searches will find everything you need to know.
@@JCWren might as well make them work for it though
The next scientific step is to fill the pond with milk and see if it turns chocolatey.
Mm!
4” of water pressure is nothing! A more thorough test would be to extend the bucket to your ponds depth and see what the weight of water does
Ha! Yea, makes sense…but would be a bit difficult to create a 12’ bucket :-)
Yea you would have to use pipe with a cap
If you are not careful. I think that you will be having a new place to stay for the night. I think that you should listen to your wife.
meh .. if the bentonine work, do that and keep going. It looks good and you will probably be fine. You are talking a lot of work to redo it. ... Then again ... there is the pig method . (questionable effectiveness of an old wives tale / old timer method
Hey tim....y didn't you get "DIRT PERFECT" to come do the pond for you and wife?..personally I think that would have been a better choice...unless he was booked for the rest of the year...but could have started spring 24....or to expensive....u see his project now, well 6wks ago lol...2 acres done 4..5 days I think, he's a guy, very knowledgeable, in dirt, plumbing, uhha???????drawing a blank roflmmfao 😂😂😂just joking, but anyways u have your reasons y u didn't go to mike