See Inside Sherman Firefly | Tank Chats Reloaded
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Inspired innovation or a bit of a lash-up? In this video we look inside the legendary Sherman Firefly, the British Army’s Tiger killer. We also hear from a Firefly veteran, Ken Dowding, ex-14th/20th Hussars.
Watch David Fletchers Tank Chat on the Sherman Firefly here:
► • Tank Chats #41 Sherman...
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00:00 | Intro
00:40 | Firefly Development
09:37 | A Look Inside
16:03 | Veteran Interview
#tankmuseum #ShermanFirefly #TankChatsReloaded
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Hi Tank Nuts! We hope you enjoyed seeing inside the Sherman Firefly. Let us know what you'd like to see next.
Patton or super Pershing
I agree on the Patton or Super Pershing, either would be a good next and both are interesting tanks.
Praying Mantis!
Any information about German Commander “ Luck”?… I think any first hand stories from or about the men who were there is a chance to get some insight into how and what occurred in battle.
Great video for the who killed Micheal Wittman I know history seems to be recording it as Ekins whom did the fatal shot but I think he only got two Tiger 1 tanks that day and it was Radley Walters and his troop that got Witman that day. Yes they had standard Sherman tanks but side on at 140meters they hit the soft spot of the Tiger 1 tank near the engine bay. See Link for very good documentary on this battlefield mystery: czcams.com/video/hn-t2JjHny0/video.html
The commentary by Sergeant Ken Dowding was a brilliant addition and really brought the video to life for me. RIP Sergeant Dowding.
I absolutely agree!!! I could listen to these old heroes for hours.
That dude meant damage all day long.
@@jim7297 Same here. There is no Hollywood Glorification with those Guys, they tell you how it really was.
My father as a loader/radio operator on a Firefly with the Governor General’s Horse Guards from Toronto, Canada. He served in Italy, Holland and Germany. They survived after having their tank shot out, however they lost everything in the ensuing fire. Hero’s all.
My Uncle Clarence was with a communications outfit in Italy, and their vehicles were attacked by Stukas. I think everyone got out in time, but like your father, all their kit was destroyed, Including my uncle's beloved accordion! He always said that was the worst thing Hitler had ever done to him in the whole war!
My Grandfather drove an M3 Stuart light tank in Africa and Italy, had his tank destroyed 3 times luckily the rounds didnt hit near him each time and he got out. Ultimate respect for all tankers in WW2 on every side, it was a tough job.
Respects!
3 tigers in 12 minutes with 5 rounds.........LEGEND 🤝🍻
If He shot from behind, its possible! I dont think anyone would win if the tiger was facing forward, with its gun locked on you! It was luck and quick thinking, that he managed to kill those tigers!
@@samanyupalthiYou might be surprised to find that ambushes and defense are the most common ways to achieve kills against tanks.
What people imagine to be "tank duels" hardly ever took place.
@@samanyupalthi Sherman Fireflies had 17 pounder guns that were more than capable of taking out a Tiger I frontally (from ranges up to 1000m). Not to mention that the German Tigers were advancing across an open field in broad daylight and the Sherman Fireflies were hiding and engaged them first.
The tank that fired first would almost always win the tank duel. Most tank "duels" were ambushes, war doesn't work like a War Thunder or World of Tanks (fun games they are), there is no fair 1v1 duel. In any case, pure tank vs tank duels were rare.
In fact even regular 75mm Shermans could take out Tigers, albeit from the side or rear, one such engagement happened in Italy.
I hope this comment is a one off, I hope you are not a Wehraboo.
1/ 35 scale? (:-)
17 pounder would go straight through the front armour of a tiger lol@@samanyupalthi
Chris has such a warm personality. I feel like I could listen to him talk about anything, whether it's how the HVSS suspension works on a Sherman, or a detailed step by step tutorial on how to make a perfectly crafted lasagna. 👌
Yeah he had very big shoes to fill when David Fletcher retired but I think Chris has fit them very well.
Was great seeing him do the live show at the tank museum too.
I had a brief one-on-one with him on Wednesday after the Tanks On Display; quite informative!
Lmao Tank Museum Cooking Episodes when?
@@frostedbutts4340Cooking with Chris is a series I'd pay to watch.
I'm so up for a tutorial on emergency combat tea prep in British tanks (I'm normally assuming they would fight while sipping their cups)
I was at the Tank Museum the day before yesterday, so I got to see these vehicles up close; It was well worth the visit!! The Tanks In Action display was GREAT!!
So were my son and I!
We'd been planning the trip all summer and we weren't disappointed.
I'm glad you enjoyed you visit@@sciencebus3119
The Firefly conversion reminds me of when you see someone keep trying to fix something, wrongly , getting nowhere, and finally you say "Move!" and fix it right😅 That was the British putting an awesome gun in a pretty good tank
Excellent video. But then I am I bit biased.
My fathers last tank was the (some would say equally terrifying) Sherman with cast hull and the American 3” (76.2mm) high velocity gun (52 calibres if I remember).
He was in 2nd Lothians and Border Horse Yeomanry and I have a picture of him, looking very smart in front of this tank with ‘Arezzo’ written in pencil on the back of the picture. (The name painted on the side of the turret was ‘Blackness’.)
One of the crew was next to him, sadly he was seriously injured in the action shortly afterwards.
The Lothians was a smart prestigious outfit and, whenever possible, crew were to be as smart as possible, and, of course, the tank and weaponry. Apologies to Brad Pitt in ‘Fury’, but my father would have expected to be put on a charge if he ever looked that scruffy.
He said very little about actual warfare, but had army humour about bits and pieces:
Reminiscing with George Martin (he then lived in Chesterfield), a friend and fellow Lothians troop commander, they were laughing about dad’s disaster when his tank rolled some 1,000’ down a cliff in the Appenines and survived to be nearly blasted into oblivion by a Mark VI later on, because his recovered tank actually had a bent barrel and missed with AP at point blank range.
As, I suspect, with the 17pdr, my dad had to quickly shout at helpful infantry to get behind the tank. His didn’t have the attenuator (or blast deflector) fitted - just a protective screwed end cap - and the blast was enormous and may have caused concussion with unprotected infantry.
As many who served in North Africa and Italy in front line tanks, he was perpetually irritated by poorly researched documentaries (often with good intentions) that didn’t reflect what every soldier knows happened in combat; using initiative to reflect the changing situation, the changes not necessarily recorded in ‘official’ histories.
Keep up the good work with these excellent videos!!
It would be so cool to see that picture
@@_steffastrostuff_2502 👍👍
Chris is doing such a phenomenal job!
Briggs and his compatriots who rallied hard for the Firefly saved many lives! Well done them!
Just listened to the “muscular loader” comment. My Firefly loader/radio operator father was 5’ 4” and weigh about 150 pounds! Fit but not muscular.
I love modern revisionist looks at WW2 history. Crazy to see how much History Channel BS we took on in our younger years.
I love Chris' presentations - knowledgeble, unfussy and precise. He really does know his stuff!
That old gent was a true warrior, there to do a job kill the enemy
True; talk about getting the job done.......
Veterans like this - The best generation. Takes some guts to do it
Wow! Brilliant! Mi Uncle was in tanks in North Africa but I don't know much. Dad was RAF ground crew keeping the Nazis from the Med. Bit more than that if his photos I got tell a story.
God Bless Ken Downing for sharing his memories which I'm so glad are being preserved for all!
He will have been so young at the time! Proper brave lad.
Here 16 minutes after posting. Haven't watched the video yet, but im sure it will be another bangar
Great video. Love Chris’ clear delivery and description. Also the use of examples from the collection as illustrations.
I’ve got a soft spot for the Firefly and the multi bank engine. Visited many years ago with my son. Now a man, then a little boy. He asked me what my favourite tank was and I picked out the Firefly. I hope to be back for a visit in the spring.
Back to the video, name checking Joe Ekins and the interview with Ken Dowding was a nice addition.
Really enjoyed this one.
I have watched a lot of WWII tank videos. Too many in fact, lol. This is the best I’ve ever seen. Just the Dwight amount of background. No fluff. And a veteran interview! This was the first I’ve heard about how the crews had to open their mouths, close their eyes, and squeeze their ear phone or be temporarily deafened and blinded Great job.
Ken Dowding is a badass tank commander! We need a lot more men like him.
About the Firefly - brutally powerful and effective tank that was painful to man. I suspect that a lot of those crewmen wish that someone had thought of the extended mantle of the Israeli M-50 Super Sherman. On the other hand, you go to combat with what you have...
Great video gentlemen!
Wow Chris's presentation has improved spectacularly 👏 Eminently watchable and listenable to.
The veteran was amazing,I daresay to the modern mindset he might seem a bit bloodthirsty, but it's worth remembering what he was experiencing, threatened invasion of his country by a country whose mindset even today seems to be the embodiment of evil, all the best to all our veterans
not at all bloodthirsty as you call it as a veteran myself fire first ask questions later or you will be dead. that is the unfortunate job of a soldier!
I always loved the archer. Take an 'ancient' Valentine tank, stick a 17 pounder on it and go for it!
Didn't Joe Ekins hit a Mk IV later that same day ?
In recognition of his incredible feat of gunnery, he was immediately transferred to radio operator.
He knocked out a Panzer IV so 4 tank K.O's in one day, but his Sherman was then knocked out, after he was then reassigned as a radio op.
@@nightshiftrider819saw him give an interview about the action. Stated that his Sargent tank commander fell to the ground and suffered a concussion at the beginning and didn’t get aboard again until after the firing had stopped.
Having destroyed more Tigers than the rest of the squadron put together and having 4 kills from five shots he was disappointed to be assigned radio operator. I don’t know if we should read between the lines about the commander being missing from the action or if they just didn’t get on. Maybe the new gunner was a mate of the commander. I do find it a waste of talent but realise office politics often plays a role in these maters.
Nobody would get assigned to radio operator after such a performance without there being a pretty good reason we don't know about. I seriously doubt army politics had anything to do with it. They'd want decent gunners over anything else. The gunner and radio operator are the same rank, so not like someone got promoted ahead of him.
You had to be one tough individual to survive tanks back then. The firefly was one of the tanks that the Germans were afraid of. I have read a book from a German tank commander and even he mentioned in the book how they hated the firefly. Thank You for a great piece of history.
It wasn't the tank we wanted.....but it was the tank we needed. Seeing the size of the 17pndr compared to the size of the standard 75mm gun on a Sherman really is something to behold. Easily one of my fav's at the Museum.
Tank Chats #111 | Sherman M4A1 (76) W | The Tank Museum
czcams.com/video/LIPG2_TOITo/video.html
Favourites.
One of the things that I found quite astounding about the Firefly story is in the very first efforts to mount the 17pdr into a Sherman turret. Major George Brighty, unimpressed with what was (not) happening with Challenger, decided to get round the recoil issue by just removing the recoil gear completely and bolting the 17pdr direct to the turret, allowing the entire tank to effectively act as the recoil damper. And it worked, although that’s not a vehicle I’d like to be in for any period of time. When Lt.Col. Witheridge arrived on the scene, he worked with Brighty to achieve a more realistic mounting for the weapon. And then, they were told to cease activity by the Dept of Tank Design, who were probably highly miffed at these ‘amateurs’ trying to make something better than their own A30 Challenger. Fortunately after some behind the scenes briefings, wiser heads prevailed. Good job too! Having said that, for all that the Challenger looks like an enormously tall vehicle, it’s actually only within an inch or so of the basic M4 Sherman.
That was a sobering interview with the Firefly veteran at the end of the video. No messing about, just "Shoot the ********!". Gripping stuff.
For those interested the Royal Ordinance Factory in Cardiff was a mammoth site and the city's biggest employer whose front gate was on the spot now occupied by Memory Lane Cakes on Maes y Coed. Road.
IIRC the large flash from the Firefly was also used when it was suspected that there might be German forces in ambush, the Firefly would go up, lob a round in the direction of the suspected ambush, and then back off sharpish, the other tanks in a different location would then watch for muzzle flashes from the suspected ambush point and engage the enemy.
I like the old Firefly commanders answer on how did it handle? "Well, to us it was a tank, it had a gun it..."
Tank you for doing the firefly its one of my favourite ww2 tanks
What an absolutely fantastic video! I've always loved the Firefly, it's the perfect example of 'needs must' and the British way of just getting on with things. It also shows the versatility of the M4 platform and why it is, in my opinion, the best tank of the war (if you count Centurion as post-war).
So glad you included the veterans account! I really enjoyed your video, the gunner interview is priceless!
Excellent presentation of a classic US/UK tank. Thank you.
Amazing how far the production quality on these has ramped up since the first episodes. I love the interview with Veterans, gives such valuable context!
great interview and well made video! thank you!
Excellent service as always.
I could watch these all day 👍
Love to see that full interview with that tankie from the firefly, cos that's been strategically cut.
Awesome video! The addition of an actual Firefly tanker interview was most appreciated!
Great stuff. Love these extended revisits
Excellent video on the Sherman tank and different types of Firefly
Fantastic video! Enjoyed the interior footage, especially how points of interest were highlighted in red.
I am honored to hear Sgt. Dowding's experience from the man himself.
Simply outstanding.
Excellent filming in that difficult, tiny space - as well as the compelling presentation, great original footage, interview, and the information given.
Absolutely brilliant video, the firefly holds a special place in my heart and I’m happy to see it shown in such light. Much respect to the men and women of that time.
Brilliant! Loved the interview at the end
What a lovely old gent. You learn so much from them when you stop to listen. I could have watched him a lot longer. Him, his crew and those like him were the silent heros of WWII. Thank you.
Just saw a short saying why the Sherman was the best tank, the chassis could fit ANYTHING!
I think the US strategy of mass producing reliable medium chassis vehicles certainly helped to win the war. Sherman's participated in almost every front of the war.
@@tristantully1592 Going off of deployment numbers and lend lease, it's unlikely the Sherman was not deployed on every single front of the war. Pacific, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Africa, Italy, and maybe even China (haven't looked into it yet).
@@bluntcabbage6042 The US sent Shermans to the Russians which were used for the invasion of Manchuria, which was occupied by Japan but is now reunited with China. It was actually simpler for the US to send tanks by Russian-flagged ships to the Far East than it was for the Russians to send tanks all the way from Germany across Russia along a badly overloaded Trans-Siberian railroad. They transferred entire armored divisions of men from Europe and they arrived to find brand new Shermans waiting for them.
I think that the US and UK sent obsolescent M3 Grant and Lee tanks to fight on the Burma-China-India front because they were still good enough to destroy Japanese tanks but were outclassed by German tanks.
@@Ensign_Nemo I figured some Shermans would find their way into China (during the war, I know they had Shermans immediately post war and maybe a bit before in Chinese service), I just didn't have any source material on hand to verify. Great info, thanks!
correct,a saying (:-)
Cracking video , well presented and a bonus top notch interview with a no nonsense veteran tanker. Thank you.
Really enjoyed that, especially hearing from the veteran.
I cannot wait to visit the tank museum in the future!
It's well worth the trip, even if the rail fare is pricy.
Do it, I've been twice and can recommend it totally as the museum unlike what some may think is not about war but is about the tanks that were used and the crews that fought with them.
One of the best series ever please continue the great effort
I love all the knowledge that you all share!
My dad was a driver in a Firefly in C sqdn 4/7 RDG. When he did start to open up about his wartime experiences at around 70, he always talked about the fiercely loud bang and muzzle flash. He suffered from hearing problems in his right ear all his life. The length 17pdr gun could be a problem. On one occasion some of the crew from a disabled 75 were crammed into the Firefly.... literally like Sardines. It was pitch dark and as dad pulled away, the tank lurched forward and down into some sort of gulley. The gun barrel dug into the opposite side of the gulley and gently recoiled back into the turret ejecting a round into the lap of one of the 'hitch hikers' ( Austin Baker). Dad said the Chrysler Multibank engine had to be cranked about 100 times when first starting, but he thought it was a good engine. I got the chance to get into the drivers seat of the TM Firefly...it was certainly an eye opener on the incredibly cramped conditions the crews had to endure. I can never begin to imagine or comprehend what dad and his fellow tankers went through in action in such primitive machines. They were a remarkable generation.....and the Firefly was a remarkably effect tank, given it's hasty development and almost 'Heath Robinson' design ! But, the Sherman was a pretty reliable tank and the 17pdr packed a killer punch....so certainly a radical, stop gap answer to an increasingly desperate situation....but it worked. Necessity and invention come to mind ! 'Quis Separabit' Dad
Great video especially with the accompanying interview, very Frank & honest
A great example of wartime improvisation. I wonder if fitting the 17 pounder gun in to a 76 mm Sherman turret was ever considered ?
Replace a HV 76mm gun with a HV 76.2mm gun?
Tank Chats #111 | Sherman M4A1 (76) W | The Tank Museum
czcams.com/video/LIPG2_TOITo/video.html
Good old British spirit still at heart the Tanker! Hit first ask questions later! Not like today eh
Thank you excellent video, including the interview.
Thank you. Very well put together and I really appreciate the interview from Ken Dowding. It would be good to see his full interview. Is that possible, please?
I’ve often wondered if I was back then, would I prefer this over a 75? I could probably deal with the lack of space, the hefty thwump chest smack in the turret when firing, and would have preferred the additional punch-through. One fewer crew member to maintain, stand watch and cook? That might be one step too far.
Superb - the content, Chris Copson and the museums Sherman VC Firefly itself
This new guy is pretty good, very often familar hosts get replaced with sub par replacements but this guy is really good.
Another fantastic video.... Thank you.
A Firefly with Gurkha infantry in support... The Germans were screwed.
The Firefly is my favourite tank, so much so it's my regular in Warthunder ;)
A very good, informative video, thanks. I also see that Chris now has his own Tank Museum "Tank Overalls"....About time sir. A very privileged item to wear.
As for the battle where Michael Wittmann was killed. It had been quite well reviewed and now most CZcams video on this subject do now mention that the damage Wittmann tank had damage that knocked out on the left rear and the British tanks were about 1200 yard off her right side. The other two were quite a bit closer to the British tanks. The Canadian Sherbrooke Hussars were only 600 yards off the left side and only 600 yards from Wittmann's tank. There are a number of videos out there and more and more mentioning the evidence does point that way. Radley-Walters was in command of the Sherbrooke Hussars at that time and did not see the hit but did see the explosion and believes it was one of their Fireflys that took her out. At the time they did not know Micheal Wittmann was there and General Radley-Walters retired from the Canadian Army in 1972 and he was the Allied Tank Ace of WW II.
Wow Chris's presentation has improved spectacularly Eminently watchable and listenable to.. 3 tigers in 12 minutes with 5 rounds.........LEGEND .
11:11 did he say "Lotus Position"? Wow. Tank-yoga is definitely something we never got from Mr. Fletcher. I am happy and sad about this.
Loader's
It is a real credit to the designers of the Sherman just how easily it was up-gunned and upgraded.
Very good well rounded talk on the Firefly. I appreciate the focus on historical accuracy. Now I want to build a Firefly model. lol.
The firefly is such a unique and cool tank, absolutely love it!
Excellent Chris.
A great very interesting hard hittingTank Chat Sir.Have a good one.
Fascinating listening to Mr Dowding. I’d roll into action with a guy like him feeling pretty confident.
Brilliant interview with the tanker. I mean great episode but nice to hear a vet.
I love your tank museum videos along with the restoration series. I would like to request that when you speak of guns size as pounders you could at least correlate to millimeter bore size. Thanks.
Even do i know forefly is not the best tank . I have the feeling that is the best tank ever ! Because its improvised and tuned ,, whatever we had ,, we took it and made it supercharged ! Best regards from Serbia ! 🇷🇸❤️
Great Video. Best one on the Firefly. Good show Chaps.
Good work
Good video, As a engineer I might despise the development situation of the sherman, but I cant state how much I love the firefly.
Excellent video.
Good video/ Thanks to Chris and homage to WW2 veteran Ken Dowding.
Should have interviewed War Daddy. He was the best tank commander ever. He fought a entire SS battalion 12 hours all alone
I love the red highlights on the parts inside the tank! Not sure if another colour would be better for colour-blind folks, but feel free to chime in!
Nice job Chris! I wanna pair of those overalls!
Again , well done Chris . that interview with the old chap , shows that " they ' were a different type of person than you get today , well done
There are no fundamental differences between my grandfather's generation and my daughter's generation.
Haha yup. Bet old farts back then were talking about "Kids today are a bunch of sissies, in my day we rode horses into battle and we liked it"@@neiloflongbeck5705
Didnt mention the vital work of the australians that led the british being able put the 17 pdr in the first place, Armoured Archives did a video a while back
“See it, and shoot it” good advice at anytime
Imagine not being prepared for the 17pdr going off though. Hopefully the crew got a split second warning most times.
It’s been demonstrated that the shot that took Wittman out, came from the Sherbrooke tanks of the Canadian army, on that 8th day of August.
Demonstrated not very well. The fatal shot hit the top of the tank by the turret . That means the Canadians would have had to have been higher or further away from Whittmans tank, not lower and close as the Canadians were positioned.
Great video! I did not know about the nuisances of the 17 pounder such as closing the eyes and opening the mouth.
No mention of the Australian Sentinel tank which inspired mounting of 17Pdrs in the Sherman.
I wonder what would have happened if the 500 ish planed AC4 had been made and shipped to Europe how they would have faired with the greater slope in armour.
I was always surprised the Brits didnt swap out the turret for a fabricated one
I guess it was a matter of time allowed
It is kind of about time but it's also about the scarcity of labor. People tend to think a tank turret is a lot simpler than it is. The existing turret already has a ring and basket that perfectly fits the tank it's attached to, equipment on board for rotating it, seating and controls. You'd have to strip all that out and reuse the parts in the new fabricated turret and hope they work after you put them back together, a process which uses up a lot of labor hours that could be better spent elsewhere if you just made simple cut and weld modifications to the existing cast turret. What you want to avoid doing is using scarce British labor to undo and redo the work that was already done by abundant American or Canadian laborers on the opposite side of the Atlantic.
Chris gave some commentary on the unsuccessful Challenger project, which did, indeed, have a new fabricated 17pndr turret. But it was a massive, lightly armoured square box, and perhaps not a practical option to stick on the top of an already very tall vehicle.
@@Roll_the_Bones and to @AlRoderick
yes I do understand this, but consider that Shermans were being made with full weldment bodies instead of the cast version, meaning the plate chemistry was available. And that considerable gymnastics were being put to use to remove the old gun and fit the new. If they made a new welded turret the size and hatches they needed at any other location, they could have slipped that on to any other Sherman and just removed the co-driver position and replaced all the storage to 17lb shells.
All that and, they did change to the bigger better ventilated T23 turret for the 76mm gun, and this on the same turret ring which is on the body anyway.
With Ken Dowding's firefly gunner being told no dallying, fire instantly at any sign, I'm thinking the crew might have a few massive surprises as the 17pdr went off.
Just love the Sherman Firefly, the most effective Allied tank to see combat in WW2, no matter how it is described, it was a winner and took a huge toll of Tigers and Panthers. It was good to look inside and it was certainly not as cramped as some Soviet designs.
It was the least effective tank against "soft" targets which were the majority encountered by Western Allies.
Tank Chats #111 | Sherman M4A1 (76) W | The Tank Museum
czcams.com/video/LIPG2_TOITo/video.html
Effective at taking out tanks yes. Wasn't so effective against soft targets like trucks, AT guns, infantry.
@@nickdanger3802 It's not the least effective, tanks with the 2 and 6 pounders were less effective.
@@Frserthegreenengine That is why tank troops were mixed. In Normandy 3 x 75mm Shermans to 1 x Firfely. By October the ratio was 2 x 75mm to 2 x Firefly and stayed at that ratio until the end of WW2
Now thats really a good one (:-)Fireflies were outstanding,destroying more Tigers than Germany had build!
Definitely my favorite Sherman variant!
Firefly and Pershing have always fascinated me.
the trance music in the begining was a nice touch
One of the joys of the Sherman, as discussed by Chieftain wasn't that it was any more reliable than other tanks.....but had the parts supply required to get a tank repaired and back on the front quickly
Meanwhile at the
British Tank
Devepmont Office
Back in 1943...
Sir, the 17 Pounder wont fit!
- Then put it in sideways!
Sir, the radio wont fit!
- Cut a hole in the back and have it stick out the back!
The engines no good!
- Get 5 car engines and put them together!
I love Potential History
good work