I'm not surprised it took 10 days, your postman took one look at that package and thought 'that looks heavy, I think I'll put it off till tomorrow' and 10 days later, he feels guilty enough to drag it up the hill and get it to you.
Great video as always RotarySMP . And no it's not just you wiring is always time consuming when you want it done right. The only ways I have found to clean up the inside of an MPG pendant is to either use wire ties or design a circuit board to hold the switches and encoder .
I guess I could use wiring harness lacing, but will probably just leave it as is. Peter and Tom designed an excellent circuit board to interface everything, convert all the signals to RS-485 and output it down a Cat 6 cable to MESA hardare. www.talla83.de/
Great our favorite aluminum 7075-anything (true fact) as we do not know the commonly used dual 6061, your choice of material got us to watch the whole video, built to last, thank you. Lance & Patrick.
Thanks. I was on a business trip back when Boeing had it's surplus store in Renton, and loaded up my suitaces with some pretty weird junk, including a block of 7075-T6. 20 years later I realised what I had it for :)
The step increment thing makes me wonder if it’s set up for binary or grey code. It might only use the first 2 inputs. Binary would be as follows A off B off = 0 A on B off = 1 A off B on = 2 A on B on = 3 C and D are ignored
Welcome to the channel. Did they ever reopen Boeing surplus? That was the greatest shopping experience I ever had. The had a Monarch 10EE in there for sale one of the times I was there. Shame it didn't fit in my carry on.
I don't know much about this particular configuration scheme. But I might offer some pointers. You say you're selecting 1 based, but what's on the screen is 0 based. Also, you have letter corresponding to numbers and "in" prefixed on a set of variables and "input" prefix on another. To add more confusion, it's "in" could be increment, but can also mean "input.". Naming consistency pays off big time. One strange thing I see at the bottom of the configuration is that you have the selected jog increments connected to different jog scales. Normally, a connection is wired to a unique connection unless you're describing a multiplexing operation. Even so, to select 4 values, you need wires pins, not one, i.e. 00,01,10,11. With only one wire, you can only select 0,1, which might explain why the last two positions are never selected.
Sometimes progress doesn’t look any different than no progress. But we all know significant progress has been achieved. Hang in there. 👍👍😎👍👍. Unfortunately I can’t help you with your incremental issue. 🤔. Wish I could. 👊👊
I don't particularly enjoy wiring. I have a 30 wires in a transfer switch I need to wire into my main electrical panel. I've put off the job for over a month now. Every time I get a new electricity bill I am still annoyed the bill is so high and wonder why I still haven't put in the transfer switch to power the rest of the house from Solar. :-)
At least you were able to get the Aluminium bars. Every time I go to my local Home Depot the shelves, especially in the electrical department, get emptier and emptier each week :-(
As a suggestion to simplify your wiring, why not do a multiplexing setup with your axis and jog selectors, that way you only need 2 inputs for each and have a mux4 selecting through the options? I have a video on mux i just uploaded the other day 👌
I did a 5x5 Multiplexing of the user interface module, but I liked those rotary slectors, and had enough IO that it was easist to do discrete wiring. If I redo the pendant, it would be with Tom and Peters smart serial pendant, so I'd only need a Cat 6 cable.
unfortunately I have no hint about the step increment issue but maybe a tip for aluminium: if you are in austria too as it seems: fixmetall is the best option for small quantities in my opinion. also they ship pretty quick usually. and I´m pretty bad at bringing cutoffs to the the recycler so quite some plate stock accumulated in my workshop over the years. mostly GS27 -> stress relieved stuff. mills nicely. happy to donate some to you and the channel ;) ...grüße aus 1150 wien.
Thanks. I normally go to Fixmetall, but with the lockdown, though it would be better to order, and the german supplier was about 1/2 the price of Fixmetall. Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know next time the need arises. Servus aus 1210.
@@RotarySMP nice! yes - definitely let me know. lots of 15mm plate but also some other pieces "in stock" :) ...and coincidentally I saw on instagram today that somebody wrote a extension for visual studio code for syntax highlighting for hal files. Peter Müller is the publisher and the extension is called LinuxCNC. Maybe that helps or is at least nicer to look at. ...although you probably only make small changes directly on the linux machine by now?
@@bernhard_derProtoTyp Yes. The syntax of the HAL is pretty simple. The only real catch I have seen is that a "_" in the "loadrt name_type" will turn into a "-" in pins created by that comp. I just use whatever text editor is standard to the Debian load.
So the smaller hole is only to get electrizity to the external reader/writer unit and the larger one is the actuall adata port for the reader/writer. so both holes got used for one thing
Thanks for adding to my MAHO knowledge base. As you can see one is already a temporary solution for the spindle ring light cable. Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution. :(
Hi, no experience with Linux CNC however from examining the HAL code at 4:55 and looking at the jogincr.in00-03 and the actually selected jogincr.ouf-f it looks like an "off by 1" kind of issue. I think that might be from the "net selected-jog-incr " and not "
@@RotarySMP Haha, shit happens, more footage for next week. ;) So you have no zero button for the active axis? I would recommend that its really handy! Maybe it's a good time to think about it now, when the pendant is still open.
@@surmetall5596 It isn't. The back lid is only 4 screws though. The issue is that the LPT cable I used has no spare wires. I can see that sooner or later the brick will get retired and I'll be making one to yours and Peters design. I already have the µC programmer sitting on my desk at work, that a colleague let me borrow.
@@RotarySMP you can also use peters PCB in your brick! Then its a SmartSerial brick :o) Anyway let me know if you need a printed case in RAL6011 reseda. ;)
@@surmetall5596 Thanks tom. I thought hard about that, but there is not enough wall thickness in the brick for it. I have such back log of projects I want to do, I will probably just live with the brick for now.
The error shows up a smart serial communication error between the 7177 and the 7184. - I first probed the connecting cable between them - Luckily the MESA 7i96 in the lathe also has a smart serial interface. So I made a new cable and checked the 7i84 actually worked. - Then I tried the 7i77 and 7i84 together with an independant field power supply. - desoldered the power and switch outouts of that rotary switch, and switched them to the other terminals (each position is dual throw). - Still didn't work so desoldered all again, an conencted and test one after another till the wire was ID. -then tried that wire on another 7i77 pin. Took a week on and off.
In your code screenshot you stated values for the different switch stages. No knowledge with the specific language used, but where is the piece of code that writes these values back in to your output variable?
I don't know the syntax of the configuration file you posted but is the error in either: 1: the inconsistency between variables of the form jog-incr-* and jogincr-* 2: that jogincr-sel0, jogincr-sel1 etc are the only variables that are not 2 digit numbers e.g. jogincr-in00 jogincr-in01
Thanks. LinuxCNC HAL always need a signal to join pins. The syntax is net [signal] [pin] [pin] You can connect both on one line, or go "signal to pin in" on one line and "signal to pin out" on another. jog-incr-* are singnals, and consistant. jogincr-in0* are pins connected to those signals. Good thought on the definition of the jogincr pins. These are not user created, but generated as standard components of LinuxCNC, so I'll go searching for thevariable type they expect to be passed.
@Erik Mikkelsaar Thanks Erik, you know I started with a PNCConf HAL setup, and didn't even realise that JOGINCR was a MUX 16 component, I thought it was some core LinuxCNC component. Now that you point it out, I checked the HAL and sure enough loadrt mux16 names=jogincr,foincr,mvoincr Thanks a lot for you tip. Hopefully that is the key to fixing this issue. I guess to start with I can replace it with a MUX4, as I dont need 16 pins options.
@@RotarySMP I think mux16 uses a binary number to select the input. Try setting use-graycode to true and see if that helps. edit: just watched the video again, and it's definitely interpreting the switch inputs as a binary number
@@RotarySMP I cant copy it strictly, my system is based on an arduino board so I have to custumize it to my need, I am converting a butiful machine that is over 100 years old, no ball screws, olds school bronze bearing everwhere, amazing cast iron body with many decorative parts, I wanted to give it a new life, because working on a machine this old is very difficult and time consuming, the makeover will be subtle, the appearence will not be that much altered, it will still look very vintage, I wanted to keep that, but the controll will be all modernized and electronic, but because precision on these machine is pretty much optional converting it to propper cnc would make zero sence, so instead I opted for half manula, half electronical controll using a pendant like this, the wiring is ultra confusing, tons of wires everywhere, I hope I can make it work, looks promising so far.
Now that you got your material.........we can have longer videos???? All of that GEEK SPEAK made my head hurt. I've been able to read some horrible blueprints but electrical schematics are just too much for my simple brain. I hope I don't muck up my CNC router when I start the wiring.
I am also not electrical native. I have learnt what little I know about reading and making wiring diagrams, configuring LinuxCNC etc through these projects, and the excellent support of the LinuxCNC forum. Don't worry, I have already commenced disassembling that aluminium plate :)
# connect selectable mpg jog increments net jog-incr-a => jogincr.sel0 net jog-incr-b => jogincr.sel1 net jog-incr-c => jogincr.sel2 net jog-incr-d => jogincr.sel3 net selected-jog-incr
I am still on LinuxCNC 2.8 and the previous version of Gmoccapy. It is stable, so i really dont see much value in upgrading. I think this is a MUX 16 issue, so I'll switch to Mux4.
@@RotarySMP did you try? If your LCNC is 2.8 the Pnfconf will do it for your version - 2.8, or am I wrong? My firs language is not English. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you? Do you understand how works the pnfconf?
Hi Nikolai. Do you create a wiring diagram as you are working on it? How do you mark the wiring? Color or labels? I use labels. Slows you down a lot, but sure helps with trouble shooting later.
@@TheFeralEngineer That is correct. Tony and regulary exchange info on our Maho's but his use of Ethercat and Mach really has little in common with my use of the Maho controls, Indramat, Mesa interface cards and LinuxCNC. Unfortunatly.
I'm not surprised it took 10 days, your postman took one look at that package and thought 'that looks heavy, I think I'll put it off till tomorrow' and 10 days later, he feels guilty enough to drag it up the hill and get it to you.
:) Good call.
Good to see the aluminum has arrived... I hope one of your viewers can help with the problem...
At least the most important inrements for touch off work, but I am sure one on the LinuxCNC guru's will point out something obvious.
Great video as always RotarySMP . And no it's not just you wiring is always time consuming when you want it done right. The only ways I have found to clean up the inside of an MPG pendant is to either use wire ties or design a circuit board to hold the switches and encoder .
I guess I could use wiring harness lacing, but will probably just leave it as is. Peter and Tom designed an excellent circuit board to interface everything, convert all the signals to RS-485 and output it down a Cat 6 cable to MESA hardare.
www.talla83.de/
@@RotarySMP definitely going to check that out.
Great our favorite aluminum 7075-anything (true fact) as we do not know the commonly used dual 6061, your choice of material got us to watch the whole video, built to last, thank you. Lance & Patrick.
Thanks. I was on a business trip back when Boeing had it's surplus store in Renton, and loaded up my suitaces with some pretty weird junk, including a block of 7075-T6. 20 years later I realised what I had it for :)
The step increment thing makes me wonder if it’s set up for binary or grey code. It might only use the first 2 inputs.
Binary would be as follows
A off B off = 0
A on B off = 1
A off B on = 2
A on B on = 3
C and D are ignored
Looks like I ended up with the grey code multiplexing component, rather that the MUX4.
Here via TOT. Hello from Seattle ( home of original Boeing Surplus)
Welcome to the channel. Did they ever reopen Boeing surplus? That was the greatest shopping experience I ever had. The had a Monarch 10EE in there for sale one of the times I was there. Shame it didn't fit in my carry on.
very good job..thanks for your time
Thanks for watching.
Great work and wiring is tough for me.
I always want to hurry it, but just have to accept it takes ages to do it.
@@RotarySMP yup dont rush it :D
@@RotarySMP rushing makes things take longer (and cost more when components let out the magic smoke)
I don't know much about this particular configuration scheme. But I might offer some pointers. You say you're selecting 1 based, but what's on the screen is 0 based. Also, you have letter corresponding to numbers and "in" prefixed on a set of variables and "input" prefix on another. To add more confusion, it's "in" could be increment, but can also mean "input.". Naming consistency pays off big time. One strange thing I see at the bottom of the configuration is that you have the selected jog increments connected to different jog scales. Normally, a connection is wired to a unique connection unless you're describing a multiplexing operation. Even so, to select 4 values, you need wires pins, not one, i.e. 00,01,10,11. With only one wire, you can only select 0,1, which might explain why the last two positions are never selected.
This turns out to have been my poor implementation of a MUX 16 component. I will replace it with a MUX4 solution.
Sometimes progress doesn’t look any different than no progress. But we all know significant progress has been achieved. Hang in there. 👍👍😎👍👍. Unfortunately I can’t help you with your incremental issue. 🤔. Wish I could. 👊👊
Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah sometimes it is one step forward, two back. I spent all week troubleshooting, nearly buying replacement Mesa cards.
You know, I was pretty sure I clicked this old tonys video but i guess I was wrong.
Sorry about that. Tony and I have been chatting and hopefully he will have his Maho conversion wrapped up soonish.
I don't particularly enjoy wiring. I have a 30 wires in a transfer switch I need to wire into my main electrical panel. I've put off the job for over a month now. Every time I get a new electricity bill I am still annoyed the bill is so high and wonder why I still haven't put in the transfer switch to power the rest of the house from Solar. :-)
:) I can relate to that.
At least you were able to get the Aluminium bars. Every time I go to my local Home Depot the shelves, especially in the electrical department, get emptier and emptier each week :-(
Saves you from having to wire that transfer switch :)
@@RotarySMP lol, yeah. But I have all the supplies so I really have no excuse. Lemme pay the electricity bill and get on with it!
As a suggestion to simplify your wiring, why not do a multiplexing setup with your axis and jog selectors, that way you only need 2 inputs for each and have a mux4 selecting through the options?
I have a video on mux i just uploaded the other day 👌
I did a 5x5 Multiplexing of the user interface module, but I liked those rotary slectors, and had enough IO that it was easist to do discrete wiring. If I redo the pendant, it would be with Tom and Peters smart serial pendant, so I'd only need a Cat 6 cable.
@@RotarySMP that really is a cool project. I've been following that as well
unfortunately I have no hint about the step increment issue but maybe a tip for aluminium: if you are in austria too as it seems: fixmetall is the best option for small quantities in my opinion. also they ship pretty quick usually. and I´m pretty bad at bringing cutoffs to the the recycler so quite some plate stock accumulated in my workshop over the years. mostly GS27 -> stress relieved stuff. mills nicely. happy to donate some to you and the channel ;) ...grüße aus 1150 wien.
Thanks. I normally go to Fixmetall, but with the lockdown, though it would be better to order, and the german supplier was about 1/2 the price of Fixmetall.
Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know next time the need arises. Servus aus 1210.
@@RotarySMP nice! yes - definitely let me know. lots of 15mm plate but also some other pieces "in stock" :) ...and coincidentally I saw on instagram today that somebody wrote a extension for visual studio code for syntax highlighting for hal files. Peter Müller is the publisher and the extension is called LinuxCNC. Maybe that helps or is at least nicer to look at. ...although you probably only make small changes directly on the linux machine by now?
@@bernhard_derProtoTyp Yes. The syntax of the HAL is pretty simple. The only real catch I have seen is that a "_" in the "loadrt name_type" will turn into a "-" in pins created by that comp. I just use whatever text editor is standard to the Debian load.
So the smaller hole is only to get electrizity to the external reader/writer unit and the larger one is the actuall adata port for the reader/writer. so both holes got used for one thing
Thanks for adding to my MAHO knowledge base. As you can see one is already a temporary solution for the spindle ring light cable. Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution. :(
Maho, Maho man. I want to be, a Maho man.
You should get one. It would suite you :)
Hi you should look into the increments selectoe as a bcd code With 2 inputs: 00 = option 1, 10 = option 2, 01 = option 3, 11 = option 4..
Thanks. I think I by mistake used a Mux16
Hi, no experience with Linux CNC however from examining the HAL code at 4:55 and looking at the jogincr.in00-03 and the actually selected jogincr.ouf-f it looks like an "off by 1" kind of issue. I think that might be from the "net selected-jog-incr " and not "
Thanks. The arrow sympbols are not parsed by LinuxCNC, and are optional.
net selected-jog-incr
Yay the brick is working! :)
For what function is the white recycled MAHO switch planed? Set active axis to zero?
It is the hydraulic tool release button. Oh darn, I just realised I forgot to include the footage of that.
@@RotarySMP Haha, shit happens, more footage for next week. ;)
So you have no zero button for the active axis? I would recommend that its really handy! Maybe it's a good time to think about it now, when the pendant is still open.
@@surmetall5596 It isn't. The back lid is only 4 screws though. The issue is that the LPT cable I used has no spare wires. I can see that sooner or later the brick will get retired and I'll be making one to yours and Peters design. I already have the µC programmer sitting on my desk at work, that a colleague let me borrow.
@@RotarySMP you can also use peters PCB in your brick! Then its a SmartSerial brick :o)
Anyway let me know if you need a printed case in RAL6011 reseda. ;)
@@surmetall5596 Thanks tom. I thought hard about that, but there is not enough wall thickness in the brick for it. I have such back log of projects I want to do, I will probably just live with the brick for now.
Such smooth action, very nice. How you managed to track down that fault, that thing just screams time-vampire frustration headache.
The error shows up a smart serial communication error between the 7177 and the 7184.
- I first probed the connecting cable between them
- Luckily the MESA 7i96 in the lathe also has a smart serial interface. So I made a new cable and checked the 7i84 actually worked.
- Then I tried the 7i77 and 7i84 together with an independant field power supply.
- desoldered the power and switch outouts of that rotary switch, and switched them to the other terminals (each position is dual throw).
- Still didn't work so desoldered all again, an conencted and test one after another till the wire was ID.
-then tried that wire on another 7i77 pin.
Took a week on and off.
In your code screenshot you stated values for the different switch stages. No knowledge with the specific language used, but where is the piece of code that writes these values back in to your output variable?
This is the HAL (LinuxCNC hardware abstraction layer) it is only used to connect signal paths.
I don't know the syntax of the configuration file you posted but is the error in either:
1: the inconsistency between variables of the form jog-incr-* and jogincr-*
2: that jogincr-sel0, jogincr-sel1 etc are the only variables that are not 2 digit numbers e.g. jogincr-in00 jogincr-in01
Thanks. LinuxCNC HAL always need a signal to join pins. The syntax is
net [signal] [pin] [pin]
You can connect both on one line, or go "signal to pin in" on one line and "signal to pin out" on another. jog-incr-* are singnals, and consistant. jogincr-in0* are pins connected to those signals.
Good thought on the definition of the jogincr pins. These are not user created, but generated as standard components of LinuxCNC, so I'll go searching for thevariable type they expect to be passed.
@Erik Mikkelsaar Thanks Erik, you know I started with a PNCConf HAL setup, and didn't even realise that JOGINCR was a MUX 16 component, I thought it was some core LinuxCNC component. Now that you point it out, I checked the HAL and sure enough
loadrt mux16 names=jogincr,foincr,mvoincr
Thanks a lot for you tip. Hopefully that is the key to fixing this issue. I guess to start with I can replace it with a MUX4, as I dont need 16 pins options.
What is jogincr? Is it a mux?
I didn't realise it was, but is a MUX16 generated by PNCConf I think.
@@RotarySMP I think mux16 uses a binary number to select the input. Try setting use-graycode to true and see if that helps.
edit: just watched the video again, and it's definitely interpreting the switch inputs as a binary number
@@spacehitchhiker4264 Thanks for that. Since I am only 4 inputs to 4 outputs, I will replace this with a Mux4.
@@RotarySMP Mux4 works the same way, except that it only has 2 input pins that take a binary number from 0-3
@@spacehitchhiker4264 I have four pins in to select four states out.
This old Tony brought me here
I appreciate his shout out. Thanks for coming by.
I am working on my own too
Look forward to seeing that. I would strongly suggest looking at the one from Tom and Peter. It is a really great design.
@@RotarySMP I cant copy it strictly, my system is based on an arduino board so I have to custumize it to my need, I am converting a butiful machine that is over 100 years old, no ball screws, olds school bronze bearing everwhere, amazing cast iron body with many decorative parts, I wanted to give it a new life, because working on a machine this old is very difficult and time consuming, the makeover will be subtle, the appearence will not be that much altered, it will still look very vintage, I wanted to keep that, but the controll will be all modernized and electronic, but because precision on these machine is pretty much optional converting it to propper cnc would make zero sence, so instead I opted for half manula, half electronical controll using a pendant like this, the wiring is ultra confusing, tons of wires everywhere, I hope I can make it work, looks promising so far.
@@DolezalPetr Look forward to seeing you video on that.
@@RotarySMP well it is a project that will probably take one more year, the electricity and wires take the most time to finish
Now that you got your material.........we can have longer videos???? All of that GEEK SPEAK made my head hurt. I've been able to read some horrible blueprints but electrical schematics are just too much for my simple brain. I hope I don't muck up my CNC router when I start the wiring.
I am also not electrical native. I have learnt what little I know about reading and making wiring diagrams, configuring LinuxCNC etc through these projects, and the excellent support of the LinuxCNC forum.
Don't worry, I have already commenced disassembling that aluminium plate :)
Use Pnfconfig with extended settings - multihandwhell option MPG. (in a new machine and copy/paste to your files)
# connect selectable mpg jog increments
net jog-incr-a => jogincr.sel0
net jog-incr-b => jogincr.sel1
net jog-incr-c => jogincr.sel2
net jog-incr-d => jogincr.sel3
net selected-jog-incr
I am still on LinuxCNC 2.8 and the previous version of Gmoccapy. It is stable, so i really dont see much value in upgrading. I think this is a MUX 16 issue, so I'll switch to Mux4.
@@RotarySMP and I'm still on 2.7.15 and Axis with MESA 7i76E. Where did you see about upgrading?
@@DPTech_workroom I have 2.8 and Gmoccapy3 on the mini lathe. The changes to Joint notation would drive a few bit of work to migrate the HAL I think.
@@RotarySMP did you try?
If your LCNC is 2.8 the Pnfconf will do it for your version - 2.8, or am I wrong?
My firs language is not English. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you? Do you understand how works the pnfconf?
Haha i am currently wireing alot of stuff on My dragbike. Oh My its not something i am good at or enjoy very much 😁
Hi Nikolai. Do you create a wiring diagram as you are working on it? How do you mark the wiring? Color or labels? I use labels. Slows you down a lot, but sure helps with trouble shooting later.
when you on hurry ask This Old Tony he knows he have also a MAHO
Unfortunately, ToT uses Mach 4. Control being completely different, he wouldn't be much help with hardware interfacing to a mesa card
@@TheFeralEngineer That is correct. Tony and regulary exchange info on our Maho's but his use of Ethercat and Mach really has little in common with my use of the Maho controls, Indramat, Mesa interface cards and LinuxCNC. Unfortunatly.