This 27FT Fifth Wheel Should Be Half Ton Towable But Here's Why It's Not!
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Half ton towable RV's have been around for awhile but I think they are sending the wrong message to people. Here's what you need to know and understand about them! || Like || Subscribe || Share || #we ightwatcherstruckedition #keystonerv
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These video are very helpful and you should sell this video and some of your others to RV Manufactures. This is the kid of video every RV buyer should have to watch before purchase. It would save a lot of headache.
One of the big problems that we see today are people that want an RV and have a half ton pick up. To move up to a 3/4 or 1 ton is almost impossible when it comes to finding a truck and one you can afford. In a lot of cases most people say screw it and roll with an overloaded half ton. It’s the game they have to play.
Thanks David, the problem is most dealers would lose sales if they were upfront about this. When I bought mine, I signed a paper in the finance off basically saying that I’m responsible for knowing whether or not my truck has enough capacity to tow my fifth wheel 👍🏾
Yes that's the problem I have I had a 2500 it was a Duramax Diesel Chevy Silverado used it broke down twice on the same day. We got rid of it we replaced the fuel pump. But it also needed new fuel lines and maybe a sending unit. Well we now ended up with a Chevy Silverado Texas edition 1500 about the only thing they would approve us for.
Rule of Thumb: Always get more Truck than you need for your rig. You will then always be in your weight restriction capabilities. Great Video. Cheers.
💯! Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
This is by far the best educational video that everyone should have to watch before they buy a truck to pull any trailer
You were a great source of knowledge when I was truck shopping. I had to buy a camper to live in while repairing my home after hurricane Ida. Had it delivered because my 1500 P/U couldn’t haul it. All during the Covid-19 truck shortage. Ended up with a Ram 2500 crew cab diesel. Your info was spot on. Thank you.
Excellent video JB!! It's like I've said before, just because you can make it barely work number wise doesn't mean you should. One person commented on staying within 70%, I've always heard the general rule of thumb at 75% but either way you need a safety factor. Tires on the 1500 truck can be a limiting factor as well. Bottom line is a 3/4 ton all the way for a 5th wheel and highly suggested for travel trailers too. Oh and you mentioned my exact truck, 2022 black 2500 Custom gasser model. Absolutely LOVE IT!!! Keep up the great work JB!
Thank you! Awesome explanation. I really appreciate the visual explanation with actual numbers.
A little addition to my post, even though I think you stretch things a little far, I do enjoy your videos, especially your truck videos
Great video! Never choose an RV based on dry weight.
Earlier this year, maybe end of season last year but I think it was earlier this year, I saw an F-150 Platinum CCSB towing a small 5th wheel. That thing was riding on it's bump-stops. Looks like if he went over a speed bump it'd have torn his bumper off. He was probably going 25-30 MPH and my guess is that's the max speed he could go and still be able to steer.
Blows my mind what some people will tow.
As best I can discern, there is no 5th wheel on the market that is half-ton towable by a CCSB and definitely not by the high trims that have maybe 1,200lbs payload. Everyone looks at capacity and say, hey, I can tow 12, 13k lbs. You can PULL that much weight, you can't safely TOW that much weight, though.
Even staying within payload those half-tons, most of them, really aren't built to tow. Soft springs and absurdly soft tires. You can build up a half-ton to tow better within it's payload rating but then it's like -- why not just buy a truck already built to do what you want and have a much better towing experience?
I saw a guy in Ohio last year, same scenario. That F-150 was squatting so much, I was scared for him. Might be the same guy you saw 😂
Great information, I believe any rv dealer should be accountable on weight more. Rv manufacturers should list the trailer weight as fully loaded. To many times I see neighbors with 1/2 or 3/4 tons that are way over weight. I've heard many times from them stating the empty weight is what it weighs because that is what the sticker says.
Thanks, I’ve been told the same thing when we were shopping. A guy told me I could tow 12k with my 2013 Toyota Land Cruiser years back 😂
@@JB_WhoWork btw be sure to hit up crown or Apollo burger for them same name burgers, while your in slc area
The manufacturers ALWAYS have that disclaimer on their marketing pieces that says something about the specs of the truck that will be pulling the thing. They KNOW that ONLY a stripped half ton with the max tow package, biggest engine, nothing in the bed and one person in the cab can stay within specs for any fifth wheel other than the small fiberglass ones...
Good presentation, you know your stuff. You could discuss the same thing about 3/4 tons as opposed to 1-tons. I safely towed a 37-foot 5th wheel for many years over thousands of miles with a 3/4 ton, it was able to do it. But I admit the combination got "squirrelly" over 60 mph. In retrospect, the stability, all else being equal, offered by a dually 1-ton would have been more comfortable. You allude to that with your remark about the half-ton frame and weight compared to a 3/4-ton, and you're right: Sometimes, it's not just about the numbers, but also how it goes about handling the load.
Appreciate the video. Very telling on that half ton towable label. Reaffirms my not buying a fifth wheel until I get a three quarter ton😊
My 2018 F150 has a heavy payload package, payload is 2449, 5th wheel towing is 11400 and combined is 17000. I’ve determined even with the heavy payload a hitch weight of no more than 1250 dry is max with a max 8500 for trailer weight to stay safe. Almost bought a 2022 gmc hd2500 6.6 Alaskan package, someone beat me too it, then I decided to wait. The F150 runs LT tires from the factory, part of the package.
Another great video, this information is very important and useful. IMO sales people for trucks and RVs should know this information and stop using misleading brochure numbers that consumers don't understand to sell vehicles to customers that are not really rated to do the work they claim. Always do your own research, take your rig over a certified scale, know your limit and play within it. Thanks for the great video JB. Keep up the great work. I was sorry to see your Ram go. Enjoy the GMC.
Thanks, I’m sure their will be another RAM on the channel 👍🏾
@@JB_WhoWork noted. Can't wait to see the next Ram on the channel. I understand having examples from the big 3. I was a GM guy for many years. Then Chev did the weird throw back to the 1958 front end. I dont like it. They changed the seats like are they made of cactus? Obviously not the leather ones they're fine. I had a few that were Lemons in the 90's which turned me off GM. Except the trans am GTA and the 454 corvette I had, they were rockets..but we're talking trucks here. Bought a ram then another and another..now it's coming time for yet another. But do I stay Ram? Check GMC like yours? Or Chevrolet? Yes they all look nice and do what they're designed to do..all be it in their own unique ways. My issue is the ridiculous prices, and these torque numbers..what they aren't saying in the fancy brochure is the specific RPM in the torque band to attain said torque. The towing numbers oh it'll pull 36,000 lbs. Ya lol ok. When specifically equipped in a certain configuration that almost nobody is buying. Maybe fleets are but the general public buying a truck to pull the family RV..no.
It’s good to get as much information as you can👍Love this Video
😃
We got a Chevy Silverado Texas edition 1500 I guess it can pull our 5th wheel it's 5,500 pounds dry unloaded. Payload in the Texas edition is 1,800 and I have seen it can go up to 13,500. I removed all the furniture and the mattress we replaced with sleeping bags and thinking about removing the shower and maybe the slide out flooring. It looks like it needs replaced but thinking about doing that when we get where we are planning on moving to.
JB. Man I need to buy a truck. It has to be my everything truck,
Work, family, towing 16’ cargo trailer for work.
I really struggle with a desire to stay with a 1/2 ton. The better drivability and better gas mileage is compelling. But I know a 3/4 or 1-ton makes a lot better towing platform.
This gets argued so much. IMO, no half-ton has any business towing a fifth-wheel RV. There is more to towing than just numbers on a sticker.
Wow great point, when you look at the frame and rear suspension, it’s almost comical when you compare it to an HD 👍🏾
I'd argue that if a travel trailer and fifth wheel where the same weight the fifth wheel would be safer and easier to tow than the travel trailer.
@@monkeybrainze This is for sure. If you can get in the correct weight a fifth wheel is much more stable and better on the suspension and frame that a bumper pull by a lot.
Don't be such a pussy. Half tons will tow more that you think they will. Manufacturers always under estimate the towing numbers for legal purposes so they don't get sued. The trucks will pull way more than they say
Excellent video. Can you do the same for a Titan XD SL without Cunmings. Do the gas please.
Thank you!
You should have compared it to the best selling truck that most people own - F-150.
Do you notice GM shows a picture of a flat bed trailer on their sticker? Look up the SAE J2807 Tow Test that manufacturers use to determine towing specs. Some of the tests are not everyday driving, at least not the way we tow.
I’m gonna pick your next fifth-wheel toy hauler, and truck for the right payload
Bottom Line is you should go with a 3/4 ton at least for towing anything cross country touring.
The 1/2 ton pickup is perfect for loading all your gear to deer camp dont go nuts here, they are great for dog boxes house hole friges, stoves, dishwashers ect ect but as soon as you step up to a tandem axle trailer that is now a job for a 3/4 ton or bigger outfit. Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
My 250 gas has alot of options so only leaves me 2700 payload so would be tight even for that.
Don’t travel with your trailer tanks full - that will help a lot.
My 2022 double cab sierra sle gas 2500 has a payload of 3750. When I was looking at buying a truck I was considering a 1500 double cab sle gas truck and the reason I didn’t was because it had a payload of 1565 over 2000lbs less. Funny thing is the heavy duty was a only 3000$ more just doesn’t make sense to buy a 1500 if plan on towing really anything of any considerable weight just my 2 cent who work😂
One issue I have with super light weight trailers is where the MFG's cut the weight to make them light. I have seen ultra light 5th wheels where the frames look like swiss cheese with all of the structure removed to save weight. To me this makes them junk! Following several RV forums, it amazes me to see the number of frame related failures from cracks, to broken leaf springs and broken spring hangers and most of these can be attributed to use of inadequate structure. My recommendation is crawl underneath and see what the frames look like and if it doesn't look stout, walk away. If you have ever seen the frame on a Northwood Artic Fox you would understand what heavy duty looks like. Their frames are probably 25% stouter than the competition and they are reinforced in key areas the correct way.
The pin weight of a fifth wheel is one reason why half ton trucks are better suited to towable trailers rather than 5th wheels, much easier to stay within the weight limits.
The price difference between a new Ford F-150 Lariat & and F-250 7.3L (gas) Lariat is only $1000.
Have you ever looked at a Nissan Titan Xd. It’s still a half ton technically and the payload is closer to the 2k range.
Good presentation. :-)
I love this vid! I want to get a chevy high country lz0 max tow. I can't get a denali with the 373 package. I thing it could be a 10k hauler.
Plus airbags
Thanks 👍🏾
That looks like a nice 5th wheel, but there isn't a world in which I'd buy the 1/2 ton towable marketing. I mean could certain 1/2 tons technically do it?... I'm sure. Modern 1/2 ton trucks have impressive numbers. Would I personally trust that sort of combination behind a 1/2 ton? Nope.
I’m just going to go on a diet and say a prayer😂🇺🇸
Lol, I need that too 😂! 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Maybe when RV Manufacturers and RV salesman start getting sued in court after an accident or for truck frame/engine failure, then maybe they will stop promoting 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels. There are only a few that meet the criteria, Escape 5.0, Scamp 19 and formerly Nash 21 which we owned (think Arctic Fox made this one too.)
Great info
Thanks Richard 👍🏾
Good info I enjoyed the video
Thanks 👍🏾
Spot on 100% JB
Thanks bro 👍🏾
Can you share you spreadsheet?
What model camper were you in....tnx. Great video.....keep up the good work.
That was the 23MLS
I guess it would depend if it's the new 1/2 tow truck the Dodge charger or the dodge RVS. It looks like it would pull my 5th wheel it's 5,500 pounds dry or unloaded up to 14,000 pounds. 2,000 something payload and can tow up to 14,000 pounds just at the limit. You might say the truck weight but they ready removed that because it can pull 20,000 something pounds the 14,000 is how much the can tow.
I'll add that it's electric but for the Dodge charger it will have a small gas engine but that's only too charge the battery to go up to 600 miles.
The only half ton truck thats rated for these half ton towable 5th wheels is the F150 with HDPP. I understand this is an older video, but its not said often enough that Ford owns this market completely if you are determined to stay within all rated limits.
My father told me his whole life they always overloaded 1500 trucks and sometimes 2500's even way back when the trucks didnt have the capacities of trucks today and never had any issues with anything going wrong. With that said they only kept the trucks a year or two tops so if it had issues they probably never found out 🤣 but i dont think its a good idea long term to overloaded trucks maybe once in a while is ok.
They make a bigger truck for a reason 👍🏾
Would a Nissan XD for 2022 middle trim work for something like this. But I think a ford f350 srw tremor lariat with the 7.3 gas and a 4.30 axle. Because the one I saw had a payload of 4,000lbs
The Nissan Titan probably has less payload than the GMC Sierra in the video. A gas HD would be more than enough truck for this and a diesel with at least 10800# GVWR would work 👍🏾
@@JB_WhoWork true I forgot about the low payload in the XD
My 2021 Titan xd 4x4 has 2200 payload I pull 33ft travel trailer like nothing is behind it so I know my titan would drag this fifth wheel
Titan XD absolutely has more payload than the truck in this video. It's a different frame than a regular Titan.
There actually is a half ton on the market that is capable. The Ford 150 equipped with heavy duty payload package. Payload is 2500-2800
That truck is a special order too 👍🏾
Yes, but this trailer fully loaded would be close to 10k lbs x 20% pin weight = 2000 lbs in your bed before adding passengers (350),hitch weight (200)and general junk (100) in your truck = 2650#’s. So way over the recommended 75% (max weight x 75%=2100 lbs) of cargo capacity and also over the max amount of manufacturer’s lower cargo weight rating. That 2650 lbs is a static weight. When bouncing up/down that cargo weight/pin weight increases causing extra forces on the tires/frame/suspension. It’s still a 1/2 ton frame no matter what extras you add to it. Too close to be safe in my opinion.
I just hear GM and Ford are going to use new technology (scales in trucks) to void warranty if you go over weight in towing
That is correct, the scales are coming for the 2023 Ford SD and the 2024 GM HD 👍🏾
1/2 ton truck should bumper pull. They are not designed for a fifth wheel pull. Warranty voided number one, number two they are not designed for fifth wheel pull. New gas 6.8 and 7.3 Godzilla engines will do this, but these are F-250 models with the 10speed transmission.
So basically if you set down and and boost all the #s, the only truck out there that should be pulling a 5er is duallys, y’all get a little rediculous with this numbers mess, I pulled wide loads all over the east side of US for 20 years, and anyone that will trade from a 2500 to a 3500 over a couple hundred pods of payload is rediculous, #2 I weighed my camper when I bought it new with tanks full and 2 new batts and it was significantly lighter than tag on door, and most do not put 4000# of gear in one unless they live in it, another thing about pulling 5er with a half ton, trucks are made a lot stronger today than several years ago, I would not hesitate to pull a 30ft mid profile 5er with a half ton truck
Unless you get an F150 that has close to 2000 pounds. With the 8 foot bed.
It boggles my mind that RV manufacturers don't understand this simple concept. It's just plain dangerous and there should be a class action against all manufacturers for this. I went to a few dealers looking for a halt ton bumper pull and none understood payload. They all saw the truck can pull 12k lbs and thought no problem you can get this giant one.
However I will say Ford does make some F-150 with beefy suspension that I suspect could pull this without issue. But basically any other half ton fails.
I own a 29RLI. It's saysv"Half ton". Now I tow it with a 2500 Ram gasser. It's 8,900 lbs dry in think and 11k gvwr. My pin weight is over 1,800 lbs. How the hell is it half ton towable 😆.
Let use your gmc 3500
There should be some integrity upgrades with the OEM Truck manufacturers AND the RV manufacturers. Start putting real world numbers on their products. Who is going to use an RV with empty LP tanks? . Nobody. The weight stickers should include everything on the RV ready to use it so consumers can make a more informed decision.
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@@JB_WhoWork If I may add one other thing to keep in mind. If you do buy a dually with a 14K GVWR and a Fifth wheel with more than 12K GVWR in many states you will also need a non commercial CDL license endorsement. In PA you will be fined if you are towing a trailer that is in excess of the truck tow rating or your license, even if it is an empty flatbed trailer.
My opinion no fifth wheel is half ton towable. Rv manufacturers need to remove that term from fifth wheels
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ALL fifth wheel rv's must never be towed by a 12 ton truck. only use those trucks for small bumper pull trailers. even if you could get the numbers to work. what will your insurance co say when you get in a accident... even if not your fault. they will say sorry your policy is canceled.
so you must think about more than just numbers.
Hitch weight is the killer for fifth wheels and half tons. Just don't do it... I saw a retired single lady with the same trailer you are showing as I was coming out of CVS in the parking lot. I had looked for the lightest fifth wheel out there other doing a best case scenario bit of research and other than the fiberglass ones, this is one of the very lightest standard build and shortest ones there is. It is under 10K max weight... AND, if you stay under 30 feet and you open up a lot of campsites for you to get in otherwise proscribed.
So this lady was heading south from Montana and had a new Ram 1500 Bighorn 5.7 not terribly loaded with heavy accessories and showed me her window sticker and it had the 3.92 gearing. So I figured she likely had a 1500 to 1600 lb payload based upon my knowledge of Rams and it was only her and a small dog in the truck. But, it showed with the fifth wheel on the back. I was sitting on an unused set of the heavy duty AirLift airbags for my 2021 1500. I had traded for a 2500 6.4 and went home got them and gave them to her and told her she needed to get them on before she did her trip. I had this kind of airbag on my 2015 1500 and they helped quite a bit pulling my under 7K 800ish lb tongue weight travel trailer.
I pointed to how the trailer was low in the back of the truck AND I told her she was almost certainly overweight but the airbags would at least help and improve safety. I really hammered the safety thing. But, she was already committed to her set up and had driven a few hundred miles with the set up and said she felt comfortable driving it. I asked her about any "wallowing" as she drove and she didn't seem to get what I was talking about I don't think, which may also tell you something intangible. And, of course, the trailer dealership had told her she would have no problem... I said a prayer for her but there was NO WAY I would have done a couple thousand mile run with that set up. Heck the 7K max loaded travel trailer made me uncomfortable with the 1500. And, I'm not a wussy...
But as to the trailer itself, it is an excellent empty nester couples fifth wheel that will get in lots of places big ones won't, due to how short it is... It would be a great match for an HD gasser of any brand and a retired couple.
35 foot
I would NEVER tow an RV greater than 9,000 GVWR with a 1/2 ton. It might do it, but you’re asking for trouble the closer you get to 10k pounds!!! Rule of thumb…..only use 70% of your trucks capacity and you’ll be in great shape!!!
I tow a 28 ft toy box loaded it's about 11,000 lbs with cclb Duramax, hear people I tow that with my fill in the blank 1/2 ton don't feel it.😂😂😂 BS
Put some airbags on it, it will be fine.
Hopefully you were being facetious? Airbags, extra springs or shocks Do Not improve the integrity or increase the strength of a 1/2 ton frame. It’s still a half-ton frame. Adding airbags is a lie promoted by air bag manufacturers. You can add all the air you want in the airbags, but you still have to have the front wheels make contact with the asphalt in order to steer.
Half tons and fifth wheels are a no go
That's a baby truck
Lol
Towing with a half ton truck is a recipe for disaster.
Always run the numbers and don’t understand estimate anything.
Safety, insurance and warranties are at risk
This video need to be repeated on 3/4 to diesels. that is the most ignorant sector of truck owners when it comes to gooseneck and 5th wheel towing.
135lb female lol
First mistake is buying a Cougar! Cheap with single pane windows and a frame that will have the RV rattling the RV to death. A half ton is a serious NO NO!! Diesel gives you tork that you can not get in a gas engine! And a 3/4 ton will work for most folks or better a 1 ton diesel.
No way 2 people are adding 1700 lbs cargo to the trailer, even with a full water tank. Could easily get by with 8,000 lbs w/o water in this one. Can also easily get 5th wheel hitches at 100 lbs for a small 5th. Would still be pretty close to max payload but wouldn’t explode at 50 lbs over. Most 3/4 tons diesels out there are exceeding payload by way more than that.
I think the difference is that most 3/4 ton trucks are built exactly like the 1-ton trucks just not as hefty in the suspension department. So a 3/4 ton truck is still built to handle heavy duty loads whereas a half ton is still a half ton with its light duty frame and components. Event he heavy payload packaged f150 that has 7 lug wheels is not as heavy duty as the 8 lug axles under the f250 or f350.
Also, I think you discounting how easy it is to throw 1000 lbs in a trailer lol. As for the hitch mount, can it get away with a light hitch mount, sure, but most people investing $70k in a trailer and $50-65k in a truck are likely wanting to buy a hitch mount that is the longest lasting and most secure mount which will be heavier. And also, the calcs shown in the vid was only adding weight for passengers and the hitch mount to the truck and not the fuel weight so that would have to be accounted for too. I agree you can drive without water in the tank especially if it’s a hook up site. But if it’s not a hook up site, would you want to bring your $70k trailer to go camping without water? I wouldn’t. His point still stands, but enough truck or buy a trailer within your trucks means.