Why I Don't Quarantine, Why You Might Not Want To, And What You Should Do If You Don't
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- #quarantine #saltwateraquarium
Quarantine is not the only way to ensure you have no disease in your marine aquarium. I talk through why it's not always a good idea and what you can do to replace quarantine.
But don't just take my word for it - read this too... www.reef2reef.com/ams/the-oth...
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Sooo 4years later...im interested to know if you still dont agree with quartine?
My opinion is still the same. I did lose a blenny a few years ago and noticed he had a few spots, but that's all I've ever seen in this tank. However, now the tank is 5 years old, I think twice about adding new fish at all - if I put one in with a disease now, it'd be a disaster. So while I still think most people shouldn't quarantine and that the risks are much lower than some people will have you believe, I'm not saying you should be blasé about it 🙂
@@ReefDork yh that makes sense lol, i just ordered a TMC UV sterilzer for the tank and a new TMC 2000 to power it hopefully i can get it in the cabinet lmao
Some extra stress, potentially sure...but many would say that the short-term stress is better than mass die-off in a display tank with no sterilizer and many fish.
Exactly
You say that like sterilizing fixes it…
exposing any creature to that wallpaper is just evil....
I couldnt be more agreed with that statement 😂
dude lol im with ya mate I like this guys passion but wallpaper is shit
British... Oy
This whole commen section was funny as
It would look cooler if it had a black background
I have kept reef and marine fish only tanks for 20 years. I have tried many variations of quarantine holding tanks over those years…some with live rock, high quality water, already cycled tanks, copper, lower salinity, QT community fish and the list goes on. Still, the death rate had been high and had not improved in any of my QT setups. I found this especially frustrating and demoralizing because I’m a veterinarian. In the last year, I have stopped using QT. Also, I no longer shop for fish off the internet. I use use only local fish shops that have healthy eating fish that have been held for at least two weeks. I NEVER buy a fish with thin body condition. In addition, I will rehome healthy looking fish from people leaving the hobby. Thus, I concur with all the points in this video. My new and existing fish death rates have decreased to near zero now. I think your video was well done, but initially had a poorly chosen title..which you wisely changed, later.
You’ve just been lucky. Def not the best Way. It’s jot hard to keep water conditions in a qt tank
@@malinoisnation9392that’s your opinion
I have been in the hobby for ~30 years; never had a quarantine tank and never had any sick fish ever.
I run 2 UV lights 24/7, water change every week, extreme filtering(6 filters on 500L tank), heavily planted/co2(Freshwater)
I walk out if I see poorly maintained tanks at LFS.... maybe I was simply lucky for all these years :)
@stan S Like stated, maybe I was lucky... helped by good husbandry
I don't quarantine either, cichlids.
Uuuuhh freshwater is much different. I kept africans for years adding fish straight in. For one freshwater fish have a fraction of the parasites that the ocean contains. Plus freshwater fish such as cichlids are much less sensitive to bad water parameters or disease. Saltwater is a whole different beast but worth it if you can do it right and be patient
Well i have been in the hobby for only about 8 months and already had ich and velvet blow up into all 3 of my tanks, which has been 4 months of straight hell trying to get rid of it. Killed all 14 of my fish in my 150g(around $2000 worth). I DO NOT recommend anyone to buy a fish anywhere without quarantining at least 2 weeks. Thank me later.
@@ryandraper456 you had 14 fish in a tank less than 8 months old.... I think it more to do with your stocking and undeveloped tank than the disease mate..... It wasnt the lack of QT that did your fish in it was the lack of maturity on your tank the over bio load for 150 gallon tank. ICH attacks already stressed and weaker fish odds are it could be in your tank for years without you ever knowing and never taking hold. Not to say a QT tank would not have helped you here but I think husbandry may have played a larger role than you are giving it credit
I QT because you won’t know you needed to QT until it’s clear you needed to have QT’ed. Basically it’s a gamble.
This is the most practical advise by far i have come across on youtube and other reefing forums.
From my experience and what I’ve heard from others, I feel a lot of people don’t fully understand quarantine. Water parameters are important in the main tank as well as minimizing stress is definitely the most important thing. I had 2 fish that were in my tank for a while and had places to hide if necessary, and when more fish were added and ich broke out slightly after the established fish did not show any signs of ich and have not been affected what so ever. I feel adding fish slowly is key, as well as definitely quarantining fish that are more prone to disease such as tangs. But I feel if someone can quarantine they should, I personally haven’t. But I don’t have a massive display tank. And I feel it’s cruel so many people add copper straight away into a quarantine tank even if fish show no signs of disease, that’s just really messed up, if there’s no other alternative then yes do that. But I have had success with natural solutions as well as fresh water dips if things get worse.
It really depends. Some people are fine without QT since the source they are getting their fish from are already quarantined
This. I found a shop that quarantines very effectively before I get it, and I love them for it.
Yes but u pay top dollar for that service
I think this was incredibly helpful! It’s great to hear everyone’s tips n tricks. Thanks so much.
Have you ever used metafix or primafix for fin rot?
I used Myzaxin once - long time ago now though
I didn't QT, after losing every fish in the tank to marine velvet. I learned how to QT. Your choice it's your tank. I just feel bad for the fish
Its not really effective in nano tanks because many nanos are the bare minimum for the selected fish. And most people running a nano are beginners who either doesn't have the budget or will do it wrong. Also with so few fish in a nano the chances are low anyway
Kenton you lost every fish? Ever think that maybe a problem with your tank or your supplier? What QT method do you use?
mmddhh34 most stupid comment
@@dsedean if you wanna call me out for a stupid comment, you should explain why? I asked questions. But if you wanna be an ass feel free.
@@silurtenr.3309 you should probably think before you speak. I asked questions. Legit questions. Never said it wasnt a parasite did I? I just questioned the fact that the problem could have already existed in the tank. Or maybe hes getting the Velvet from the place supplying the fish hes getting. SMH
Here's how I QT, and have never lost any of the 10 fish I've added with this process. Keep extra bio media seeded in the fuge or filter. Set up hospital QT with this media in an HOB filter, and use tank water to fill. Add heater and circulation pump with PVC hideouts. Once fish are added, use freshly mixed water for regular water changes (not tank water). If you're using enough seeded material, there shouldn't be Ammonia issues. Once fish is acclimated and eating, proactively medicate exactly as directed. 👍 IMO, this is less stressful on the fish than dropping straight into the DT.
Nice QT process 👍
What do you mean by IMO?
@@theholysynopsis5100 IMO = In My Opinion.
thats what i do aswell just proactive meds against flukes and internal parasites.
You change environment twice. Straight in DT is changing environment once = less stress.
Great video and very informative, to quarantine or not quarantine is the question! I've never quarantine and been lucky but you make a lot of good points especially with the stress factor for the fish going from place to place , absolutely will stress them out more . Anyways great video and to each their own. Keep up the great videos!!
Respect the info on the years of experience you’ve had on this, I don’t get why people are so spiteful and aggy in CZcams comment sections. I will probably still QT as I have a tendency to pricey fish aha but the points raised are very valid and being new to the hobby and a fellow brit am glad I found a new source of hobby inspiration, might have to try saltwater
Appreciate your video I do not qt because of the space and time.... I trust my lfs and take other precautions .... And like you said this hobby is expensive as it is... But people... Do whatever makes you feel comfortable.... No 2 tanks are the same and everyone does things differently.... Live and learn
I want to repeat my earlier comment as I didn't stress it enough. As a reefkeeper with over two decades experience I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE with the OP. He's experienced and competent. If I was propagating corals I would quarantine. Otherwise I do not.
I rewatched this video a few time but I have to disagree with parts of it. You do have good info from 5:10 to the end on making proper preparations. But After losing $750.00 worth of fish and having to rebuy fish an extra qt tank is nothing. My wife doesn't care for the hobby but would deal with an extra QT Tank instead of money lost to unnecessary fish death. She allows me 5 Qt tanks.... in the living room lol. only issue with QT i have is new guys don't know what to look for e.d sign that a fish has flukes or the fish has just arrived at the LFS and should remain there for a week.
I disagree with 99.999999999% of it, it's complete nonsense and this guy is an idiot.
I didn't quarantine... Got away with for 2 years.... Got hit with marine velvet lost 1000 in fish... I will be quarantining from now on...
Totally agree! Also, before you buy a fish, spend time observing the fish in the tank and all the other fish. This has always worked for me.
One reason I always QT is salinity stress. My LFS keeps their fish at 1.017, and Live Aquaria ships fish at 1.019. I keep my tank at 1.026. I always match my QT salinity to the salinity the fish was previously in so I can simply temperature acclimate and plop them in.
I have been reefing for over 20 years, I have never qt'd or lost a fish to disease. I know lots won't believe but I get what you are saying. I don't doubt there things like ich in my system. They don't cause any issues though.
You’re just playing Russian roulette my friend.
Me too. I’ve been keeping fish for 30 years and never QT’d any fish. I select from highly trusted sources and watch the fish at the LFS including feeding until I’m satisfied. Never had an issue.
Hi Alex i can also sympathise with you that it can be a pain and cost more, but like some of the other comments, you are play Russian Roulette with adding fish. I myself have done this in the past while stocking my tank, added some fish from a good LFS, 2 weeks later has a white spot outbreak lost most of my fish after ripping apart the scape to catch the rest and treat the in a QT. After leaving the DT fallow for 72 days I vowed never to add fish without a QT again. Interested if you have ever have a tank wipe out due to WS, Book, Valvet etc? Thanks for taking the time to do the channel.
No, never had a wipeout thankfully. I might well feel differently if I had, but having thought about and researched this topic for years, I like to think i'd stick with my methods. It's worth noting I do get a little nervous when I add a new fish, especially now my tank is established. But then, I felt the same nerves when I took fish out of quarantine...
@@ReefDork Yesterday I would've been with you 100%, today I couldn't disagree with you more. When lights came on my reef tank my yellow tang is covered in velvet. With no qt available and no salt water made, I'm pretty much in panic mode. I know right now that I may loose most if not all my reef fish due to my lack of qt and how quickly velvet spreads, before I can even get a qt tank set up and ready to house my reef fish so my display tank can go fowl for 6 six weeks, 10 fish in all and many have been with me for almost three years now including the yellow tang. Sad to say this could've all been avoided if I just qt my new arrival that I got last week. Sadly the fish died which I thought was from shipping stress and gill damage, the fish went through acclimation alright but was dead the next morning. It showed no signs of illness, but after reading a few articles on velvet sometimes fish die before showing symptoms. lesson learned, for now on I will be quarantining my all new arrivals.
Reefing is Russian roulette in a nutshell.
Thank you
I completely agree. But I also have a full time qt system with live rock.
Don't agree about cost being an issue, especially in this hobby. A 20 gallon tank, cheap light and filter probably costs less than most fish that we buy.
Having wiped out an entire tank from ich in the past, I only QT everything I buy now. Sure I've lost a couple of fish in QT, but the same happened when I didn't QT when I first entered the hobby 15+ years ago. Rather have their issues confined to QT, than risk spreading disease in my display. Also gives me a chance to directly observe, target feed, and get them used to me in a small tank rather than be lost amongst all my rockwork.
Water isn't a big issue either. New water goes in the display and display water goes into buckets to be used for the QT. When it's time to move fish to the display, they can go right in with no acclimation.
Storage is the only downside, but the tank and other things can be put in a closet when not in use. Luckily I have room to allow that.
Otherwise enjoy your videos. Thanks for the content.
It also depends on what fish u put in your tank. Great example a blue or blue powder tank will almost always have white spot.
I have never QT and I know the risk
Saying that I try to buy from good fish store. And roll the dice. Thanks great video.
Lol i did the same thing you did and now im going fallow for 2 months on my tank due to a massive ich infestation lol
@@marcelrodriguez2067 Exactly Marcel, I am also going fallow for 76 days :/ let them say that it's bad to quarantine until they lose all their fishes in 2 days.
Fallow?
@@tommyriordan870 fallow period (fishless tank)
@@tommyriordan870 no fish in tank for 76 days, and yes it sucks ASS.
I use the water from my 140 tank to refresh my smaller tanks. The water from my big tank is always pristine. That way all my tanks match. And my quarantine always matches my main tank. So moving is not a strain and they are already aclimtised for the big tank. I am freshwater tho. I just started this a year ago and I will always do it this way from now on.big tank is 45 ppm or less nitrates are always yellow when I test. Trying to keep all 3 tanks the same was hard now it is easy. Just got 33 fish from Greg sage. All are still alive and kicking. Never had this success before I started doing this.
For me it depends on the sickness, tank size and the tank age as well as where you get fish from.
I feel like you explained why not to quarantine as honestly and accurately as anyone can. Tough topic as many people will slam you for it but at the end of the day quarantining adds more stress to the fish and if not done properly won’t even help. One thing many people do, not sure if you do or not, is put the fish in some sort of acclimation vessel within the tank for a short period to get a feel for any issues with aggression, make sure they are eating etc. once they are in the display they are so hard to get out!
Chucking a fish straight in copper out of a bag from the shop will cause undue stress, I put my new arrival, I say arrival as I only ever add multiple fish if the fish shared a tank, I often think a tank buddy reduces stress, or if it’s a clown pair or a shoal of chromis or a like, so they go in a decent size 60l untreated quarantine tank to get them feeding and observe for 7 days, I then move the fish to a treatment tank with 0.5 therapeutic cupramine for 14 days, you may think that’s harsh but fish can have pathogens and parasites and not show symptoms, what’s more harsh is adding a sick infected fish to an established community of fish, I’d rather put one fish through the quarantine process than pull apart a reef tank again, trust me pulling apart 6 year old corals to get your fish out to treat them is heart breaking
Especially watch out adding tangs as he said. A little stress and they get ich or velvet easily. My blue hippo tang wasnt quarantined and he infected all my fish killing them all one by one. Hes bulletproof though so the killer went free lol
We have a product called safety stop two part dip in the United States. This works well for me. Thank you Jim Fisher.
Thanks for the heads up.
My new favorite reefer. I also don’t quarantine, I have a very prestigious coral shop in my area and only shop with them, period. Imported fish and coral sit in the NFS section for 60 days before it gets put for sale.
I tought you had a aldi tshirt on😂😂but seriously im jealous of your tank
My local fish shop has seperate filtration for every tank one further away is ver similar but some tanks are joint with a sump
^also I can’t be bothered quarantining
I've tripled my workload with a second QT. What's it for? Coral. I can quarantine fish and coral simultaneously and use any methods I need to treat infections and pests for both. It's really not that hard. Afraid of losing the bacteria? Ghost feed. Really not that hard lol you don't even need to do water changes on one of them unless you really screw up.
No you cannot, there is no coral safe way to treat ich or velvet. Add copper to that tank and watch your corals die fast as hell lol
@@marcelrodriguez2067 - I didn't believe when I heard, but their is reef safe antibiotics and pesticides the are reef safe. Sorry I don't have the names of the product but if you look it up you will find they do exist. I've never used them, maybe reefdork should do a video / experiment on that product.
I agree with you
i used to quarantine but in 20 years of fishkeeping, I've lost maybe 2 or 3 new fish to disease outbreaks. and pretty much all of those were very early in my hobby when i had no idea what i was doing. so yeah, i think its dependent on circumstances. some people are lucky enough that qt's aren't worth the expense or fish stress
I've since added a video clarifying a couple of things! czcams.com/video/vuREIhzxbL8/video.html
Could you please do a video on how to start the tank cycle with dry rock and sand
Great tips! - I believe you really should add a fish isolation box for introducing the fish especially if you are not going to QT.
I am in the "you should QT" camp - but the issue for me is then you have to QT corals too and it's hard (in an apartment) to have an extra 2 QT tanks.
I haven't got my big display up but I set up a small QT in my son's room for coral. I would like to put new fish into the QT coral setup and let them settle for a week or 2 and then do the tank transfer method in a couple of buckets or small cheap tanks. All you really need is 2 extra cheap powerheads and heaters.
Pro Tip: You can buy little filters with UV the provide enough flow and I think they are GBP30.
The problem with this method is that the ich then gets on the corals and you have to keep them fish free for an extra 90 days.
So I will probably just buy a 40L tank and put it on the bench with the UV filter and for those fish that like to pick take some rock from my sump. Then use an old salt bucket to do the tank transfer method and on the first transfer use some PraziPro (I am about to try shipping from the US). Wiping out a tank/bucket with some vinegar solution that I used to clean the powerhead that has been running for a few days is not a hassle - the problem for me is the space = the missus.
I do think though that a frag tank to QT corals is absolutely essential for long term success and iif you have that the wise thing to do is at least fatten up and observe the fish in there before introducing (through an isolation box) in to the main display.
Isolation boxes are awesome! A QT tank for corals is a proper hassle too, much harder than fish. The dream is a separate fish room with all of this stuff in it!
@@ReefDork Have to agree with that (except I'm not a fish room guy - I think a small second tank you can use to QT on the way in and (hopefully) put frags on the way out is the way to go - I keep looking at the Waterbox 28.2 AIO Frag;)
Don’t add the fish to the coral qt! It completely destroys the point of a coral qt.
The tomonts will release the free swimmers to find the fish. The fish will then drop the white spot only to release theronts that go back on the coral.
Just saying I agree with you. I prefer not to stress the new fish anymore than I have to and I'm not full-time running an otherwise useless tank. I also don't think it is a good idea to drip-acclimatise as this simply increases the risk of ammonia burn. I do exactly as you do. There's far more important things - to me- to keep fish healthy like good diet, good filtration, and not over stocking or keeping incompatible species. ps I like the wallpaper too :-)
Friend of mine has two tanks hooked together with a pump and valve. Display is 120, other is 30 gallon. 30 has hob 110, so both tanks have same parameters but are disconnected by the valve and pump. So if the fish ends up in bad shape the 30 can be drained cleaned and doesn’t affect the display tank. If the fish does good, it’s already in the same water… and in she goes.
I prefer not to quarantine.. it’s very stressful on the fish, but my 5th fish I bought was a healthy eating coral beauty angel, next day it had velvet, next day everybody else had velvet, only thing that lived was my conch.. now I quarantine.. Always
same experience for me, velvet wipeout starting with a coral beauty...qt always now...
I have a great local fish shop in SWFL, They quarantine before so it's really nice . And I only buy fish/corals and water from them .
I think it depends on the situation. I bought two fish recently in a Boxing Day sale. The store was crazy busy and I ended up with 2 sick fishies and noticed it before adding them to the display.
I generally do not qt because I pick healthy fish with no signs of illness but in this case I did not and I'm not going to add sick fish to my DT. I've spent thousands getting it to where it's at and I'm not about to grenade it.
I'm currently trying hyposalinity for ich so fingers crossed.
I didn't QT until I bought a yellow tang with velvet and it wiped my tank in 3 days.
Ah, sorry dude 😔
I have never quarantined and my fish keeping hobby spans 20 years even though I’m 24 lol, my dad started me on it and he never quarantined
@@xXBrianBelloxX no lol
Hi Alex, great video as usual! You know the fish in your tank that keeps diving! what kind is it please?? 😀👍
It's a Naoko wrasse - cool isn't he?!
I didn’t quarantine my fox face and he’s doing amazing, I did quarantine my dwarf angels since they were tiny when I got them and they did fine!
Same with my yellow tang, it really depends if ur fish is doing good or idk 🤷🏼
Do you think that doing a freshwater or medicated dip before adding the fish to you tank could also be helpful?
Yes, for sure.
I’m with you Stress is the biggest killer . and white spot mostly only comes with Tanks . Feeding helps them forget about there stress ..
So the second batch of fish I ever bought cost me $90 died the next day and infected my fish with ich. So after fallow of 11 weeks I thought I will ALWAYS QT after buying new fish to save myself that headache again. But ever since then I’ve lost a few fish in QT just recently another $100 in fish. I’m starting to wonder if QT is even worth it.
I was always worried that the bare quarantine tank would stress even more,already stressed fish. Its probably a good idea to quarantine over the long haul. I mean you can make them swim in methylene blue..unlike the main tank.
I was thinking of setting up a quarantine tank because I want to get a fish from the internet and I don’t want exposed my fish to any diseases but I think I’m just going to get it from a local shop now. It’s too complicated for a newbie
When you put the fish in your display tank, is there anything you add to the water, or do you just acclimate and drop them in?
No need to add anything to the water
Hey Alex I also don’t quarantine i use a product called safety stop it is a 2 part system where you put the fish in part one for 45 min then part 2 for 45 min as long as the fish are no showing visible spots or fungus this 2 part system will kill anything on the fish even in their gills I’ve been doing this for the last 10 fish that I’ve purchased and have had no problems
That sounds good - treating fish with prazi or even a freshwater bath appeals to me.
Wouldn’t that put stress on the fish though? Fish gets to the store,fish gets put in the bag acclimate and then In one part for 45 min second part 45 min and then tank??
Only i ask.. cause when they get stressed then things can go south I usually just drip acclimate for a good amount of time depending on the species and the temp it was in at the LFS
Bree Williams hi Bree I can only tell you that I’ve been using this for my last 8 fish and have had no problems with stress I learned about this product from a you tube guy called melsreef he has a chapter on safety stop I would recommend you watch it’s great and Marc is a great guy with lots of info
I’m sorry Bree I spelled his site wrong it’s Melevsreef
Frank DiBartolo thanks I’ll check it out
Ive been hit with white spot and now QT, went 3 months fallow, fish put through copper and prazi still got white spot 😳 oh the joys of keeping marine fish!
😔
Once they have it no turning back..my husband got a Coral Beauty last week she did have a white spot he saw it brought it home I freaked guy convinced him it’s ok
Well today it died I called the place owner of the LFS said she said it did have ich but she treated it...well it came back but viciously thank god it didn’t effect my clowns
@@breewilliams2521 white Spot is writh in marine shops, many will tell you they run copper or low salinity but they are never in the right levels or doses. Just enough to keep the white spot subdued, you take the fish home and than boom, out it comes.
Darren's Marine World do you think online is better? I don’t really like the LFS stores here there’s maybe 3 that are descent majority of the tanks are dirty and fish never seem right
I see a lot of people order now these days do you think they take better care of their fish etc..
@@breewilliams2521 I think they are just as bad if not worse as no one can see what they are up to. It's a gamble at least in a store you can see the fish. Once white spot is in your tank it will keep coming back. Some fish deal with it better than others. But even QT can go wrong so there's no truly fail safe way I'm afraid.
I personally have an amazing fish store who always QT the fish for me, 9 years buying from them and never got any issue, and never QT any fish, i wish every fish store did the same, many tell you they do but they actually dont.
Number one is a great fish store in my book!
What’s the name of the store?
My lfs runs copper in their tanks where you buy your fish from.
I run filterless tanks only. They're actually more likely described as "aquascapes" since the fish, shrimp and snails are really just secondary to the plant life. I've run this tank for seven years like this, and the only disease I've had was when I moved from a smaller tank to a larger one.
The fish all live their normal lifespan, and after seven years I'm down to a lone gourami. I have never quarantined a fish before adding it, and I purchased 3 new sparkling gourami today and I don't intend to quarantine them either.
But like I said, the fish really are just there to provide fertilizer for the plants and they're relatively inexpensive fish.
What r u talking about freshwater tanks have to worry about 1 thing ick
Hot topic Alex sure will get chin's wagging great stuff
Yep! Got my flack jacket ready 🤓
Reef Dork great subject I wonder how many people really do quarantine I suspect that not many new marine tank keepers do
2:19 I literally died!
🤣
Hi buddy. I can sympathise with almost all your reasons for not going through the rigmaroles of quarantine apart from the one about arriving at your home after being through the process of Ocean to wholesale to retailer etc. But I would like to think that after being through all that, any if not all fish would rather be placed somewhere peaceful on their own to recover and fatten up without having to be possibly bullied and definitely compete for food. I use the tank transfer method and would rather waste the £12 on salt and an hour of my time once every 72 hours, than risk a £100/200 wrasse/tang (financial comparison only all fish life should mean something to the purchaser) I qtd my chromis and yes I even qt my inverts, inc. Coral for 6 weeks in a fishless system. I understand about the extra tanks and equipment too but again, its pennies compared to the cost of a normal reef system. (Coming from someone who takes reefing in a budget to a new level) 😂😂🏴🐠💚❤🙏. I am very limited as to where I can purchase livestock and am yet to visit a store where I dont see a fish flashing or even dead in the tank so i insist on ordering fish specifically when I want them and am ready for them and i collect them before they enter the lfs tanks, they're still in their tmc packaging. 👍👍
I would agree with this ;)
Absolutely - the hassle/cost aren't as important as the health of the fish. It's just a nice bonus of the way I prefer to do things 😀
@@ReefDork Yeah - I get it... I know having a wife can be the real limitation. See my comment above - I know what I want to do but the reality is totally different and I think if you are not going to do QT the right way you are much better just dropping them straight in (and using UV) because you are just adding extra stress to the fish.
**** There is an awesome post on not QTing on R2R - it basically says you gotta go all the other way and improve immunity. They have great success but I feel like there is no middle ground here
Great points Welshie. 👍🏻👍🏻
@@ReefDork Each to their own and I totally respect your opinion/methods and reasoning as I would hope you do mine, but I would challenge anyone to come to my lfs, 2 of which are Maidenhead Aquatics stores just like the 1 in your video and buy a cpl fish and pop n drop them....Have to say, I think this is the only video i have seen of yours that i didnt enjoy, in fact, somehwat annoyed me.. Maybe im just jealous of the success you have had without going through all the tedious, expense ridden process of qt that i did, though I have never lost a fish in qt apart from a wrasse that jumped thru the eye of a darning needle. I wish you well pal and Happy Reefing!
I really get you're point of new with the fish being tired and worn out once they arrive at their new home, I'm still kinda unsure how to think about quarantine.
Also regarding the cleaner shrimps, I don't know if they really help but to me they kinda belong into a reef tank, just like clownfish. It isn't a real reef tank without the two.
^
I had a pair of clowns for 6 years, they aren't sociable fish and killed my cleaner shrimps. I won't be replacing the clowns.
Hello Alex, I'm from the UK and I'm in the process of starting my first very nano reef. Since all my LFS are far from me, do you recommend any good trusted online retailers who sell fish online via post?
I'd never buy fish online I'm afraid - selecting a healthy looking specimen is really important so I've only ever bought in shops.
I would never add a new fish in my DT unless Qt. If you never had ick or velvet in DT. Only way to get it if you introduced an infected fish or anything that wet including snails or coral. Bad advice but it’s your opinion.
Same! I was in the hobby 5 years ago and had 4 tanks without QT and never lost any fish or had problems. I just recently got back into the hobby and decided to QT because most people rave about the importance and I assumed I just got lucky 5 years ago. Well, I have already lost 2 fish in QT. So, I realized that I am done with QT. I put the other fish that were in my QT with the 2 that died and they are fast and healthy with no signs of illness or disease 2 months later. I think you hit it on the head about picking healthy looking fish and fish that are actively eating in the store.
Fish can harbor disease without showing symptoms if their immune system is healthy but things happen and just like people, they can get sick. when that happens there's a chance for something deadly to take hold if its floating around in the tank or already harbored by the fish. You must have not been doing quarantine correctly, did you monitor ammonia levels daily, add bacteria starter and do waterchanges? A QT is not established and with even using existing filter media, it needs time to catch up(A tank definitely needs more than 2 weeks to get established so don't thing a new QT will be. Did you dose with copper and buy a test to check levels? Every time Ive dosed coppersafe/ copper power it is usually over the safe level for fish and that's a recipe for disaster, a test kit is 100% needed. Ive had a succesful reef tank for years without quarantining and I lost all of my favorite little swimmers to brook and velvet from adding the very last fish to the collection.
@Anthony Clarkson You picked the wrong one, buddy. I've been in this hobby for 30 years, so keep scrolling.
You do you
@@anthonyclarkson8480 I do and don't need your permission either.
Aggressive asf🤣
My sentiments exactly been trying to find a way to tell my wife i need another tank smh
I never quarantine my fish, because I don’t buy to many fish. I only got two tanks, a 29 gallon and a 10 gallon so why bother? I don’t see the need of a quarantine tank as I only have 2 running tanks and I don’t but fish very often.
Does this include fresh water as well
I know very little about freshies but I think it's easier to treat them in your display tank so QT not necessary. But check that, I'm salty only!
I also agree with not quarantine based on knowing your LFS. Minimizing stress on fish. It seems to me I rarely see comments regarding what people do regarding issues which arise during the quarantine process. Fish die during process, get rid of fish that show issues, treat and then put into main display, I doubt there are zero issues even after quarantine. I have never bought fish on line...if I did I would definitely not put them directly into main display. But fish from a LFS you can trust and observe the fish.
People diss your wallpaper... but it looks quite nice with the tank!
The main point ain't about the wallpaper! Jeez
I've lost many fish in my freshwater tank due to columnaris alone. I then had velvet disease in it. All my serpae tetras have died. The first time, it was my fault for putting the store water in the tank as my boss told me to do. Not gonna do this mistake again. My pearl gouramis lasted only a year in my tank and then they had wasting disease or internal parasites in which case I couldn't treat at the time because I couldn't get the treatments. Plus, some medications will affect corals and plants. And when I bought my second batch of serpae tetras, they looked healthy. They only got sick when I put them in my tank for some reasons.
Its nice to see the counter-argument to quarantining. I've watched a lot of videos on this subject and it appears to me more of an advanced reefer thing. As a noob just setting up my first tank and not sure of what I'm doing, it's kind of daunting to think that I need to setup another tank right away. I just don't want that extra work and worry right now. I'm going to get setup with a few fish in my tank, and also carefully select them for behaviour compatibility. Once I'm comfortable with the process I'll look at quarantining, especially as the gamble gets higher.
Nice wallpaper
I personally don't think I'll be quarantining when it comes time to get some fish, mainly for a few reasons:
1: I only have a small 20 gallon, and don't plan on having more than 3-4 fish at a time.
2: all the fish I've picked out (clownfish, jester goby, shrimp goby, green banded goby) are avaliable captive bred, and can be shipped out from an already clean, quarantined environment.
3: I don't have the space or extra budget for a quarantine tank
4: all the other reasons listed in your video
Would you say all this applies to freshwater as well?
I haven't kept freshies for many years but my understanding is that it's much easier to treat them in-tank so QT isn't necessary. But I know very little about that side of the hobby so fact check that!
i have noticed that some fish don't take to the medication /copper, and some require sand and sand with living creatures to eat like some gobies,
I didn’t quarantine the first few fish I added, nor did I quarantine the inverts. All was well for several months. Then I added a new fish and a single snail from my LFS who claims they don’t sell sick fish and keep them in a degree of hypo salinity. Silly me by trusting them and dropping the fish in my tank. Within days they all had flukes and then velvet. In less than a week all my fish were dead.
I tried saving my DT but the meds failed and also seriously harmed some of my corals.
Now my tank has to remain fallow for 2.5 months.
Lesson: Invest in a QT and meds. Risking your DT just isn’t worth it.
How much were the cleaner shrimp you bought
Can't remember I'm afraid - probably £20ish
It’s enough of a pain in the ass to maintain the main tank. I’m not running a second identical tank just for quarantining.
I like the emphasis on avoiding disease-prone fish to begin with, especially if a novice. Still thinking, however, that quarantine is best for most reefers *who are prudent and have a few extra bucks to spend*... if only for observation (ecofriendly, cost-friendly, lowers stress, etc.).
1- have a great fish store! Who quarantines! 2- get healthy fish see 1
3- research what fish you buy!
4-pay attention to your fish! And your tank!
5- dont overtreat if you dont know what is happening!
Many healthy fish will be able to deal with most disease without drastic intervention, or worse yet not knowing what you are doing and treating something you may not actually have.
You cant just "have " a great fish store if you don't live by one
Great video! I have a 75 gallon african cichlid aquarium and a 32 gallon saltwater biocube. I do quarantine my fish most of the time. In my experience I have had fish die whether I quarantine them or not. Most of the fish in my 75 gallon are 2.5 years old and I just put them directly in my tank.
I gotta ask. So many ppl talking about UV. Do you have or just decide against pod populations in your system? Seems to me you either 1: Have UV/have not pods or 2: Have not UV/can maintain pods...
Pods live in the rocks and other small crevices and on the sand, they aren’t floating in the water. Any that are, probably are on their way out anyway. UV doesn’t kill pods in the rocks and sand.
Check out the BRS series on UV. They cover everything you need to know and I think I remember them discussing the unlikely event of pods being killed by UV.
I’m very confused. The inconvenience and cost of quarantine is minimal compared to a tank wipeout. I have to say you present yourself like you are a master keeper of knowledge who knows best... you are in fact a trainee when it comes to fish, like most reefers.
I don't pretend to be a master - i've posted my full tank history on my channel - this is just my opinion.
Reef Dork I think you understand that the video is on a platform that people turn to, to gain knowledge and advice. The content was poor advice. You know you are playing Russian roulette by not quarantining new fish. I appreciate the follow up video... I never comment normally but felt compelled to in this case. I’ve experienced a total tank wipe out with marine velvet, all because of a £20 fish that presented as perfect before going in. Patience returns the most success in this hobby.
100% you will wipe out your tank if you continue like this. Maybe not today, maybe not next year, but eventually. Stress can just make fish show symptoms but they are not going to get parasites due to stress, that just isn't possible. If stress makes them show parasites they already had them. If I eat pizza while I'm running it doesn't mean it's going to give me stomach parasites, but it will upset my stomach. If you have room for a 100 gallon tank, you have room for a 10 gallon qt tank. If you have room for a nano tank, you have room for a 5 gallon bucket or 2. You are making it seem like quarantining fish is so hard, when in fact in most cases it's so easy. It's easier then keeping them in a reef. You don't need to be checking nitrate / nitrite in a fish qt system. An ammonia alert badge and checking salinity / temp is all that is needed. You can buy an extra inkbird controller for next to nothing. You can also rely on the heater since you are just risking a fish or 2 and not an entire system. Airline and airstones cost less than even the cheapest damsel. Even half quarantining is better than nothing, in fact doing it half right would be as much as half as good. Doing nothing is just that nothing. If you can keep fish and corals alive in a reef, you can keep fish alive in another tank for 1-2 months.
I agree. Risking everything for a few bucks and a cpl hours of your time a week seems ludicrous to me.
Just my opinion (but I stand by it) 😀
Great points! 👍🏻👍🏻
Exactly, lowering stress levels will do nothing for you when you eventually get a dose marine velvet.
@@ReefDork Here's the thing. If you don't qt your fish and wipe out your tank that's your own business, but consider that your successful youtube channel may be one of the first things a new person watches. They may think Reef Dork doesn't qt I don't have to. You have a nice looking tank, a nice selection of fish. You are quite possibly and likely condemning fish to death by making this video. Additionally having tank wipe outs is a big reason why people get out of the hobby. Pretty much any reputable reefer or business is going to recommend that fish be quarantined, nowadays a lot of people recommend everything wet be quarantined. Given the continued deterioration and now dropping of quantity in the fish supply chain it's more important than ever to keep healthy fish because there may very well come a time where you can't replace some of them.
Your shirt reminds me of aldi
wait is that a harlequin tusk? how are they in a reef?
Yep. Generally fine although mine ate a cleaner shrimp right in front of me and I haven't heard my pistol shrimp for months! Stunning fish though 🙂
Edit. I just heard my pistol shrimp! He hides though ever since I added the tusk.
Where do you buy your fish from?
The Ocean Project, Reefkeeper Windsor, reefdreams, AAC.
You playing Russian roulette w your tank.
I actually agree with this video. It’s funny cause I’ve only been in the hobby for a little over a year and I rationalized everything you just talked about in this video in almost the exact same way.
If you think about it, the big killer is velvet, so when you go to the pet store ask the pet store owner how long the fish has been in the tank, because if that fish has velvet it’s not gonna last for more than a few days. So right there if the fish doesn’t have any spots on it and it’s been in the pet store for more than a few days you can rule out velvet, and as long as you don’t see any other sick fish in the tank.
Man I just totally agree that it’s stress that kills the dang things, and quarantine, 90% of the time people don’t do it right and it stresses the fish to death with all the medication on top of stress.
Good video, it goes against what a lot of other people say and I like that. Liked and subscribed.
Agree
@@BlueOrangutan. do you have any recommendations of where you can buy fish pre quarantined?
Not sure i really agree with a lot of this TBH, QT tank are small, cheap and can be set up and packed away when needed so maintenance is minimal (not sure how often folks are adding fish, but assume its not monthly). Couple of extra plastic tubs which you can throw into the garage is hardly a deal breaker for most.
I get the stress argument, and its a valid one, and agree re treatments (i visually QT for a month so no copper etc) but the risk of losing my entire display tank, animals i've grown to love outweighs the downsides.
Can assume you've never experienced a tank collapse, hope that continues but perhaps opinions would change if you suffered one.
Ik for my experience in the fish hobby for the past 10 years or so that I don't ever have to quarantine unless I get my fish from places like petsmart or petco. Because I even quarantined my clowns a d blenny and put the blenny in th qt tank wit the clowns 3 days later and they all did fine till I had moved them over into my display tank
I had a total tank wipeout. Everything coming in now will be dosed with copper. In fallow period for 100 days now. Holysmokes.
😕
Its amzaing that you have so many fish and dont qt! I am not sure i quite understand how besides uv? I cant seem to keep fish. They always die for some reson or another. Last week I got two fish in and the watchman goby disappered for 2 weeks almost. Day before yesterday he aome out looking really bad but I figured he must have been eatting bristle worms or something but I guess not because yesterday I found him dead inside the return nozzle on my 20 nuvo aio. i guess my royal gramma scared him into starving to death, because when he came out she was after him! He swam off so fast I couldnt feed him! Funny thing was the first few days in he seemd fine and was perched on frag rack out in the open. Now I want to add about 3 more fish but scared. The place I ordered from sent me 3 dead ones and 2 I ordered didint pass their inspection. Their so damn cheap though and I id get my money back.
I would also like to add, have a plan in advance of what fish you are going to stock in your tank, do not buy on a whim. Do your research as some fish will need to be added first to establish their territory and seek out hiding places before more aggressive fish are added.. Some fish, particular schools of fish, will need to be added all at once. Be cautious if you add to an already existing school of fish as the odd one out may get bullied. My son and I started a marine aquarium over the holidays after having fresh water for 10 years... We have made some impulse buys and lessons learned..
I don’t quarantine as such I simply put them in a small tank first for a week or to using the water from my tank
always QT fish, take my advice!
I have seen disease in my main tank and in my quarantine tank. Of course I’m not running salt water running freshwater so it’s kind a damned if you do damned if you don’t. And where I get the fish from it’s a local store I trust they’ve been in quarantine from where they buy them at and then they keep them in quarantine for a couple weeks so we’re talking a month so technically you should float the bags and they should be ready to go in. Because I think four weeks in quarantine is enough.but some people on Certain CZcams channels think six weeks plus Is the way to go-that’s a little extreme
I don't quarantine either. Lost way more fish to quarantine than I ever have in the tank. Even if they have ich once the fish gets into quality water they recover