Why America Is Running Out Of Carpenters - Cheddar Explains
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- čas přidán 7. 12. 2022
- The United States now has a skilled trade labor shortage of around 650,000 people, but among them it’s carpenters who top the list. Where have they all gone? We break it down to three reasons.
Further reading:
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics:
www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
Angi:
www.angi.com/research/wp-cont...
Associated Builders and Contractors:
www.abc.org/News-Media/News-R...
Stanley Black & Decker:
www.stanleyblackanddecker.com...
www.stanleyblackanddecker.com...
DeWalt Survey:
www.multivu.com/players/Engli...
Bisnow:
www.bisnow.com/national/news/...
Forbes:
www.forbes.com/sites/forbeste...
www.forbes.com/sites/markcper...
Peopleready:
www.peopleready.com/us-skille...
PR Newswire:
www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...
Yahoo:
www.yahoo.com/now/drilling-sk...
www.yahoo.com/now/constructio...
finance.yahoo.com/news/the-la...
Construction Dive:
www.constructiondive.com/news...
Insider:
www.businessinsider.com/labor...
FRED Economic Data
fred.stlouisfed.org/series/US...
NAHB:
www.nahb.org/blog/2021/10/3-R...
NPR:
www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/...
Big Rentz:
www.bigrentz.com/blog/trade-s...
www.bigrentz.com/blog/pandemi...
The Honest Carpenter:
• WHERE HAVE ALL THE CAR...
• THE TRADES ARE DYING.....
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Pay them more and you’ll get more people wanting to enter the trade.
@@WillmobilePlus That’s exactly the kind of attitude that’s driving people out of the industry.
@@WillmobilePlus you just assume he's a clown? He didn't say pay them more just for breathing, he said if you pay them more, more people would join the trade, which is a fact. The company I work for had to raise wages to get new workers to apply, and it worked. When the cost of goods and services rise, wages have to adjust to the new prices, or else you're effectively getting a pay cut. It's just basic economics. Why would I stay at your company if a better job is paying equal or more?
@@WillmobilePlus What are you, an idiot?
@@WillmobilePlus what a stupid comment
You probably love Elon
@@chimchu3232 >He didn't say pay them more just for breathing, he said if you pay them more, more people would join the trade,
From the pot-o-gold they all have sitting around? Oh, like let's just dig into the secret stash here and "pay you more" when you have zero experience?
Then you complain when job sites are full of Hispanics?
*There is no shortage of skilled workers*
There is only a shortage of skilled workers willing to work for peanuts.
The carpenters are here. We've just learned that we can make more working for ourselves, or in other fields.
You know that. I worked for myself for many years, doing other things as well, and made more money. I got back into carpentry but I demand what I want for a wage these days. We're sick of getting pushed around
Exactly! All skilled professionals are in the same boat. Running a small business is a lot more complicated than just knowing how to do the work clients pay you for, but it's the only way to make a decent living and not be taken advantage of by employers who want to pay at the level of a novice top-quality deliverables. I'm a journalist/copywriter, photographer and graphic designer. Publishing companies and corporate marketing departments think I should be willing to give them the benefit of more than 35 years of experience and my expensive cameras, computers, and software and be grateful for a measly $30 an hour. The only way to make a decent living is to be self-employed.
I've been working freelance online for 10 years and my husband and I started a regional photography and website building company a few years ago. We're free to decide when and for whom we work, and we never charge less than $75 per hour. Plus we get all the tax benefits, too. Companies who don't understand the value of exceptional work - in our world, this includes professional photos, signage and marketing materials - are bound to fail This holds true for real estate developers who skimp on payroll for all the construction trades, only they usually don't fail until after they've already pocketed millions due to the value of the real property. I hope someday this will change but I'm not holding my breath.
Even in developing nations the youth are demanding better income. If their rural communities can't provide decent income then they move to the cities.
"There is no shortage of skilled workers
There is only a shortage of skilled workers willing to work for peanuts."
There is a shortage of skilled workers, because few go into it due to the pay. There isn't a vast pool of tradesmen sitting around waiting for wages to go up. The ones that are are also the ones aging out.
@@wisenber There is a "vast pool of tradesmen" waiting for better pay.
Why are you trying to correct me on a subject you have no knowledge or experience in? Are you really that arrogant?
If you had been paying attention you would have learned that there are many qualified tradesmen out there that are not working in the industry. But they would, if the pay was better.
Damn, how are you so ignorant, and confident at the same time? Lol.
There will be a shortage, in the future, if thigs don't change. But currently there is no shortage, if they pay is right.
Ive been working as a carpenter for 5 years, so just about approaching journeyman level. And I quit. Im going back to bartending and waiting tables. The hours are endless, the pay sucks, youre expected to provide all your own expensive tools and an expensive gas guzzling truck and then stand outside getting sunburnt or frostbitten all day. After taxes and expenses of maintaining tools and a vehicle take home ended up being around 15/16 an hour with no benefits. Why on earth would I choose to break my back, work in a toxic industry full of grumpy mean geezers building other people homes when Im not getting paid enough to afford my own home. Its a shit deal. Dont have enough of any profession? pay them more and it will change over night. Sick of hearing "this generation doesnt want to work anymore" when ive been busting my ass and still been on the brink of homelessness while you provide housing for others. Its not that we dont want to work, we just dont want to work for YOU. Because we see that its a bad deal. We see that there are no well paying options. And we see the developers showing up in their f350 lariat with a clean bed and no rust and no stains on their brand new carhartt. We know the money is coming in and were not getting it. So we quit. Its ass backwards and if people want it to change they gotta start paying real money. The only time Ive made any decent money in carpentry was working for myself. If you work for someone else they will always take your surplus value created. And then they bitch about "why cant I find reliable guys" lmao, get with it or get gone. Im glad I did it, now I have theses skills forever and I will always be able to fix things myself and be self reliant, but until the pay and work culture drastically improves I wouldnt recommend anyone touch the industry with a 20 ft pole
Jeebus christ that's awful. And yeah, fuck the people that say you don't work hard enough!
Thank you for summary, i stop watch video at 30 second mark
Don't carpenters have a union?
Your also forgetting its a fairly low skill job
I'd say that 15$ is quite reasonable
(Now accounting for savings/"benefits" and insurance and stuff you might be better off flipping burgers) but again that's your choice
Don't wonna do it Don't
But you can't expect amazing pay your labor isn't worth that much
If it were the msrket would balace and there wouldn't be a shortage
(And I do find the narrative of a shortage a bit absurd
Ideally when there aren't enough carpenters people do such things as switch to other materials be it stuff like concrete aluminum or lighter stuff like icf just to give an example
Even plastics
But change can take a while and people like to maintain old homes rather then tear them down I guess...
It depends..
(Stuff like concrete are also quite a bit more expensive in the short term but require less maintenance so................)
That's the market working
@@donotlike4anonymus594 lmao low skill. if you think 15 is fair for anyone with the cost of living these days, let alone for the work carpenters do you are smoking crack. Go memorize the intl code book, learn all your local codes that contradict it, learn how to do rough and fine carpentry, basic concrete work and rough electrical and plumbing knowledge and then go stack roofs for 12hrs a day 6 days a week, realize thats whats expected and then come talk to me about "its low skill". "low skill labor" is a myth sold to you to justify paying people starvation wages so ceos can line their pockets. Im sure you like living in a house. The people building it deserve their pay. Nobodys asking for amazing pay, or to become a millionaire overnight. We are asking for fair compensation for physically and mentally demanding labor that is the backbone of any society. Thats for all builders and tradespeople.
They say there is a teacher shortage, carpenter shortage, truck driver shortage... EVERY job can't be struggling to find workers.
Maybe jobs don't pay enough anymore.
That's the kicker, every job CAN be struggling to find workers. It's a mix of jobs paying way too little and Americans these days being too lazy to work.
@@Hitherto90 most Americans wouldn't be so "lazy" of they were paid right. It's hard to have the energy and motivation to put in effort when you can hardly afford to house and feed yourself.
Oh no! The “this generation is lazy!” Argument!
Nevermind the fact that inflation have gone faster than the minimum wage. Many Americans are working multiple jobs just to afford rent.
Jobs pay plenty. We Americans have an incredibly inflated sense of what we need to survive and be comfortable. We’re still an extremely well off country. Even poor people in America have it good compared to some other nations.
Maybe? Bruh the pay is shit most of the time
It's sad to know that a real-estate agent makes more on a home than the carpenter that built it
feeling said - Junior Lebowski
That is extremely sad...
They are snakes
Not so much sad as utterly outrageous and infuriating…
@@ClarkCastroI can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people have to deviate from the original print plans because the architect wasn’t educated enough in the field and only understood theory.
I was a carpenter.
The pay sucks.
We build multimillion dollar homes while we can't even afford to build ourselves a modest home.
General contractors keep all the money.
We build America and live in poverty.
Long hours in all weather, no one cares.
It wrecks our body too, no ins or retirement.
That's why you can't get people to aspire to be carpenters.
So be a general contractor then. Too many folks don't want to put their time in to learn the job. Even surgical specialists spend a DECADE of 80 hour/week on the job training (and that's AFTER medical school) to get fully certified and until then they don't make much.
@@oldtwinsna8347 The barrier to entry keeps getting bigger, for every job. Older nurses could get the job out of high school, new nurses take pre-med, 4 years of college and it's an extremely difficult medical degree to earn before they come in making half as much. Older general contractors set their businesses up by themselves when the market was loosely regulated. Now there's zoning, code enforcement, environmental, and banking regulations out the wazoo so an upcoming GC needs to retain a team of lawyers just to get into the industry.
Lmao you can’t afford to build a home because you are a debt slave. Don’t blame your poor decisions on the trade.
@@gorkyd7912 this is completely made up bullshit.
@@apersonontheinternet8006 I'm not a debt slave, I have zero debt. I probably made better decisions than you did. My parents built a house for $20k on land they bought for $9k. For me the land would cost over $70k and it would cost over $20k just to dig a well and get power connected. Don't tell me my bad decisions are the reason I can't earn 10X as much as my parents.
I wasn't a carpenter but I was an electrician. And the environment on a construction site is not conducive to a young person learning. It's a bunch of older guys, giving you shit, acting superior and having outrageous expectations. A more experienced electrician tried to start a fight with me, Told everyone it was me who started it. since I was newer they fired me. So I'm not in construction anymore. I have to assume my story is not Unique.
NOPE It's not unique. Childhood friend/roommate of mine was bullied off an apprenticeship because the entire crew was 25+ years his senior and he was pushing a broom the first month. No learn - just broom and harassment.
That’s pretty common….younger guys get a lot of shit so the older guys turn around and do the same. I did solar panel work and sucked at it but wasn’t paid well either…..stopped doing it altogether because I could make more anywhere else, plus get treated a hell of a lot better!
@@matthewmitchell68 That's exactly why they're hemorrhaging apprentices, then, and you're a clear example
It is a lot like prison, the bigger/stronger you are less people even look at you.
it is very common.. even in truck and coach and i assume across all trades
When there are too many workers and not enough demand then no one seems to think twice about reducing worker's salary. But when there is too much demand and not enough workers at a given salary level, then companies act like they have an impossible problem and they have no idea what the solution could be.
It's not an impossible problem, they just have fewer workers so projects take longer.
THANK YOU for pointing out the absolute HYPOCRISY of conservatives, matthew banta!
It’s not that “this generation doesn’t want to work anymore” it’s because people don’t want to be exploited anymore. So many trades, careers, and jobs pay way too little for it’s actual worth. Look at mechanics, truckers, loggers, wild fire fighters, etc etc. Plus there’s lack of trade education in high school and outside.
EXACTLY!!
Back in 1970 my father told me there was a severe shortage of brand new Cadillacs selling for $1000, but no shortage at all of Caddie's selling at $10,000. It all depends on how much you are willing to pay.
But there were cheap/affordable Cadillacs in 1970 that were far more plentiful. They were called Chevrolets.
This is a great story
@@stevearcher6100 I have lived in the SF Bay Area now for 40 years, home owner for 35 of those years. Used to be that all of the house repair and maintenance trades were white owners with mixed white and black workers. Later, it was more common to see white owners with Hispanic workers. Now, it is mostly Hispanic owners (trades, like plumbing, painting) or Middle Eastern owners (General contractors) with Hispanic workers. Based on reroof, drain replacement, various plumbing jobs, two kitchen remodels, some electrical work. Got a Chinese firm to do our new wooden window blinds, 65% the cost of Home Depot and holding up fine. The only exception seems to be electricians, but my sample size is small. Plumbers are 100% Hispanic, and my sample size is pretty big, at least half a dozen jobs. All have done good work, but of course I screen the contractors very carefully. The rise of Middle Eastern home remodeling GCs around here is quite interesting.
My husband is a skilled carpenter but we unfortunately like to eat and have a home to live in. Because of this, he no longer works as a carpenter.
I'm a fan of Karen Carpenter
@@eddiew2325 kinky
Driving to my last day on the job now. 17vyears in. Knees are shit and backs done. I'm going into insurance adjusting
Sarah what does he do now?
A good old man taught me carpentry and construction when I was 17, 18, 19. He told me, he was teaching me so I could handle my own when needed and as fall back skills for if times got tough and i needed work. He also told me if I made a career out of it, he'd break both of my legs before watching me destroy my body for little to no return. I kept doing ut a few years, went to college for programming, ended up a full Fabricator/welder/maintenance. He was right. I have a completely different career now and will live homeless before I ever work for someone else in the trades again. Sure, I use those skills daily for myself, those I care about and my own personal gain. I won't join that work force again. Treated like the trash while building, designing and fixing what these people want. Most wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for us.
Nah bro, the trash on a job site gets treated better than the workers.
@@jeffshackleford3152 You're not wrong.
I'm a carpenter and I concur. It's hard to find good Carpenters out there, even people who know basic things. But part of the problem is that nobody takes Carpenter seriously or pays a fair wage. I could make 40 bucks an hour, but I also have to buy my own tools and pay gas to drive to various job sites. People don't realize how important it is. Until people are willing to pay Carpenters Fair wages, including the contractors, there won't be anybody interested in taking the job.
40 bucks is good money. one set of tools is in the hundreds, and you make thousands. and everybody drives to work so..
@@MrKongatthegates Agreed. Before this work from home tirade, people routinely commuted 2+ hours a day one-way in brutal traffic conditions for decades on end. Not sure why this whining and complaining about.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Holy hell, have none of you conservative dipshits ever worked a carpenting job in your lives?!
@@cordfortina9073 you’d be surprised how many people in other industries don’t actually have 20k put aside at 40 years old. People show off this middle class lifestyle, range rovers etc but it’s all bad debt.
This is where the rubber meets the road, if you’re an employee why are you expected to supply tools? Do people who work white collar jobs have to supply a desk and printer? It’s crazy that an industry as large as construction with its massive economic contribution is basically kept going by a bunch of guys with no job security, no healthcare, no pension, no employment perks living on a diet of cigarettes and energy drinks.
my step dad was a carpenter and it was miserable hard work that eventually killed him. He was a great carpenter and got paid well for one, being the lead on projects for as long as i knew him but we were not even middle class in arkansas. I'm not trying to do that for sure.
Being a carpenter is more dangerous than being a cop or even a soldier, but with less pay and much less respect.
Also, you can become a doctor with less training than becoming a journeyman carpenter. I hope you appreciated your step-dad, because he didn't get enough appreciation at work.
This video kicks off with a shot of a carpenter working at heights at the edge of a building without any fall protection. I wouldn't want my son to take that kind of risk, that's crazy!
Exactly, I was a field engineer and worked with a lot of tradespeople. All the trades, but especially low barrier to entry trades like carpentry, rebar/steel, roofing, and concrete, were brutally hard work for 12 hour days, often 6 days a week. The pay is alright, but only because these guys are working 70-80 hour weeks.
Not to mention that getting into a union is easier said then done and hours can be really inconsistent. You could be working 80 hours a week for three months, then your project ends and you’re out of work for two months until the union finds someplace new to send you.
All told, the trades are tough work, and unless you’re getting compensated appropriately, it’s understandable why people leave the trades.
@@-XtraCredit- You are confusing the motive. They do not work hard because they are afraid of looking weak.
They work hard because they know that behaviour will get them the job, and better pay.
Getting a wagon to move 50lbs means you will be the first laid off, and the last hired.
At work, in construction, nobody cares about image, or looking manly. Profit and efficiency rules all.
@@-XtraCredit- No, you are wrong. It is clear you have never worked in the trades (or at all). I spent many years as a journeyman. So, listen and learn.
The high expectations come from the need to be competitive. If you go easy on yourself, and use a cart for a 50lbs bag, you will not be able to do the job fast enough or cheap enough to compete.
That is not an "opinion".. You do not get to "disagree". It is a fact. You were wrong. Learn and move forward; don't double down.
The game is about making money. If you don't take the edge, someone else will. It does not matter what "should", or "could" be. That is not how the real world works. This is not the "older generations legacy". It is the laws of a free market economy, and reality. You can't blame everything on the boomers.
The world is gonna be hard on you when if) you move out of moms place. But you will learn.
I was an independent carpenter for almost 30 years. It got harder physically and the business end got way more complicated. I ended up doing custom work for an interior designer who treated me well. Actually we treated each other well. But the big companies? Forget it.
Contractors keep taking a larger and larger share of the productivity instead of sharing with the people who actually create the wealth.
This!
Profits go up year after year for the office, while pay is stagnant or even falling for the tradespeople that actually do the work.
There is no shortage of workers, only a shortage of fair pay.
Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) fraud is a big problem. Many contractors, being the capitalists they are, decided to steal those taxpayer funded loans for themselves. They didn't stop to realize that it's illegal and the law has a long arm.😄
That's the exchange you make when you become an employee. Less money for less hassle on your end with taxes, healthcare, ect. And guaranteed pay depending on your industry. Unfortunately, school just teaches you how to be a good employee, not an entrepreneur. So many choose to work for someone instead of being that someone.
@@NoobToobJamarMemes But only morons equate ripping people off with "being an entrepreneur".
@@NoobToobJamarMemes The "hassle" of paying taxes has nothing to do with why someone takes a job as an employee. None. Employees still pay taxes and for healthcare.
Also, there is no such thing as "guaranteed pay" in construction. If there is no work for the day, you stay home and *do not get paid*
School is not supposed to teach you to be an entrepreneur. That's not what school is for. Even if it was, not everyone can be a business owner. Someone has to be an employee for a business to function.
Also, not everyone wants to be an owner. Do you think a master craftsmen does not deserve a good wage, unless he is also the boss? What is wrong with you? You seem broken both morally, and intellectually.
I don't think it is possible for you to be more wrong. I mean you were wrong about everything, in every way.
It's actually impressive.
The person who builds shelter is the second most important person in society. Right after the food provider. Our priorities are all out of whack.
One important thing they forgot to mention is the effect the pandemic had. All of a sudden in 2020, tons of carpenters were out of work. A lot of small contract companies have little or no benefits, and weren't going to pay their employees to stay home. So these guys just found new jobs and never came back.
Unless they are going to retire, they will come back given the pay increases, as it rightly should.
@@thunderb00mAgreed. In addition to that pay increases would also bring in new talent, it is almost like people will work for you if you pay them enough.
@@garethbaus5471 What a concept! :)
Unfortunately a lot of contractors got rich off taxpayer funded PPP loans that were supposed to go to paying employees. Well guess what.
Who's going to pay you as a homeowner?
I was a laborer for my families company, always wanted to learn but nobody really showed me a standard method of doing something. 2019 I enrolled in a machining certification course I’ve been a cnc machinist for just over a year now and I fucking love it.
I hope all is well for your future then : )
Engineer here, did machining for a few years while in school. Now I want to go back after my first engineering job
40 years as a carpenter so far. Self employed. Truck, trailer,my tools cost as much as a new truck. Wood/metal framing. Drywall, all phases. Trim,doors, floors, locks, place n finish concrete. WDO repair etc. The more you know the less you get paid, the more you know how to do the more you're called a handy man....then just try to get paid....that's a battle all on it's own...
Could be worse, you could be a mechanic with $50k in tools. 😂
I tried contracting on my own as an Electrician... and found out very quickly... Im just a collection agent with tools...
A lot of American “shortages” could be addressed by better pay.
Careful, that's Democrat talk. 😉
It's not only " Better Pay"
It's also having the love and passion to do a labor intensive job. You have to really love to wake up and do this type of work every single day, in hot or cold weather, working in shitty conditions
That's where I am think the real problem lies. Yes the pay can be improved but if you aren't passionate about this job, your going to hate it regardless of the pay at some point
@@mikes4163 Democrats are not consistent. They want higher pay for people without higher skills, and yet they want as many illegals in the country with no minimum wage (or benefits) to harvest produce to keep food prices lower than if they had to pay minimum wage. And guess how much that avocado for their toast would cost if those field workers were paid a "living wage".
@@JDBass36 Both aspects might also be tied to our economy's larger shift away from loyalty to certain companies or careers mattering.
@@mikes4163 Democrat talk is raise taxes on corporations. I fail to see how taking another 30% from the small business gives them the ability to pay a higher wage to carpenters. Democrat talk is raise the "minimum wage." Remember when they were screaming for $15? Now we're paying $25 and that's not enough, gee almost like inflation will eat any pay raise faster than businesses can keep up.
As a 32 year old carpenter with 15yrs of experience I’ve topped out making 60k. Starting your own business is the only way a tradesmen can live in America and not be in poverty. I agree, us tradesmen don’t get respected or valued for what we provide society.
I work in the mid to high end remodel business and some custom new homes. Trim guys in my town start at $30 and go up to $60 depending or not if your in a 1099 position. Owner operators make well into six figures.... sometimes multiple six figures.
@@rjthomasindyusa I’m talking exclusively about being an employee in a company. 1099 is certainly the way to go, you’re basically self employed at that time and you can have more control over yourself. I’ve worked in multiple areas of the country and I’m currently in the southeast. True to stereotype it’s way behind.
Most young guys or guys that have lived week to week don’t have the capital for a truck, insurance, and all the tools that allow you to step outside on your own.
I’ve worked with countless guys over 40 who need their check on Friday just to make it through the weekend. These guys are hard working and most are good people who have had bad luck. Many are good craftsman but as their bodies wear out they’re setting themselves up for a hard life as they age with no retirement. It’s no way to live.
@@Corey_Fox Are you currently an employee? What do you do? Framing? Interior trim?
@@rjthomasindyusa Currently I work for a company doing anything that’s needed. New construction, remodeling, and renovation. This week I’ve been framing out a third story attic into living space. Ive done a little of everything. I can trim, set doors and windows, frame, run siding and boxing, hardwood floors, decks, fences, and general homes repairs. I also have two years experience with timber framing and own all my own tools to do it all. Looking for a city to call home so I can start my own company but I’m a curious person and can’t live in one place for too long.
You also have to pay for all of your own insurance that way too. With a familiar you could be spending thousands a month on insurance alone.
I'm 51 now, and I decided to leave the construction world a few years ago after 25 years of swinging a hammer. I worked for a great contractor for the last 19 of those years, and was well compensated. But it just hurts too much to do that heavy stuff anymore. I still enjoy the work, just not the wear and tear.
Driving past job sites now, I see way more grey hair than young muscle. I know that I could easily get back on the job at a good wage, but I also know that I would be low man on the totem pole and be required to do the grunt work since I would be the young buck and the new guy. No thanks.
It is very rewarding work, bu tit is also pretty damn hard. I recommend specific trades to young guys getting in, things like HVAC and electrical. As you pointed out here, general carpentry does not get the respect, or pay scale as the others usually do.
I came to say same things. I will never leave construction. I love building to much, but now days I do more teaching and supervising. I currently have a crew of young guys who want to learn and are willing to do the work. We are blessed with a owner who values us, ....
Tough to install hvac or wire up something that nobody wants to frame to begin with. We are all in this together
@@user-tn2os8ts7h Very true. All of this is intertwined, with no part being less important to the whole.
@@billziegler600 (You mean young brown illegal guys)
@@user-tn2os8ts7h💯
The last true Cheddar video.
Schools also don’t really tend to have woodshop or home ec anymore. Mine definitely didn’t. So a lot of people don’t realize it’s something they might even like when they’ve never tried it. And a lot of the people I’ve met in college have a fear of saws and most other tools a carpenter would use because they’ve never used one before. I used to be scared of the table saw and nail guns until I took a theater set building class as an elective. That’s when I realized I actually enjoyed making things but I’m almost done with my schooling so there’s no way I’m switching now, also I’ve got a pretty strong fear of heights so a lot of the construction stuff I’d not be able to do. I build stuff for fun though.
The solution is to expose younger kids to trade work in school and not talk about how college is the only way to have a good life. And pay better, if someone can’t afford to pay for the work then that’s their problem. They should be able to pay for the labor going into a project or learn to do it themselves.
Exactly. I went to high school around 2000 and the schools were getting rid of the shop classes for STEM classes (though I don't think they called it STEM back then) and if you wanted that stuff you had to go to a different high school so there weren't many opportunities for people to try out different things just as electives. Plus, there was a big push for everyone to go to college. Even if you go to college, shop classes are valuable learning experiences. And then people wonder why fewer people went into the skilled trades.
I honestly question if any of the schools in my county have a workshop class since I have traveled to quite a few different ones as part of my school's academic team and most seem to have opted for less intensive (in terms of cost and work by the school) clubs. Like, most seem to just push students to take extra virtual classes to learn anything besides the basic subjects taught in school, with only maybe one school having even a baking or agriculture club because they were literally an agricultural school.
@@-XtraCredit- ah, that sucks. I went to high school in the 2010s so if that had happened then, there would have been an uproar and my mom would have had some words with the teacher for being a creep... that is if we’d had an auto shop. It sucks that now that it’s more accepted that girls do trade stuff, it’s no longer available for _anyone_ in a majority of schools.
@@-XtraCredit- Makes sense. I don’t think I would have wanted to learn from that guy either. I didn’t have internet until I was an older teen (couldn’t afford it) so I also had to learn to do research and figure out how to learn things. It would still be great for schools to have these places for kids to learn trade skills though, since unfortunately a great majority of people don’t have access to the necessary equipment even with the internet as a learning tool, and now people also have to be wary of dangerous tutorials that don’t teach the proper safety precautions.
I’m actually really glad my sister’s high school is about to open an auto shop next semester and I think they’re now offering woodshop classes. Even if she isn’t interested, other kids will hopefully take advantage to keep it open. Maybe other schools will start having these things again.
@@-XtraCredit- I googled them right now. There’s apparently many of them within a few minutes drive. Feels like I should have looked them up sooner. I’d heard about them from other CZcams videos but never checked. Looks like a bunch are part of schools. And there’s a few you have to apply to join. Pretty neat for schools to have them.
I’m a multi trade skilled craftsman. Carpenter, finish carpenter, plumber, welder, electrician. Left the building trade due to lowball pay saying I wasn’t good enough. Ended up as a Millwright pulling 120K plus a year applying my skills in a factory. Retiring this year at 58 with full pension and benefits. Nobody coming in with enough skills to replace me.
The same reason why there is a paramedic shortage too. They need more cash to commit to this as a career. They are paid as much as an Amazon warehouse worker, which is absurd.
That's why you would start there for a couple years then switch to being a nurse. Its a lot of heads-on training fast. My sister took that route, and was working crazy hours. Probably making a fantastic amount of money. Haven't spoken to her in years because of her narcissistic personality. She makes awful decisions too. But makes enough to be fine. She got married in a year and pregnant at the same time as she was a nurse in the military for less than a year, got kicked out out in a way. Cheated on her husband. Divorced. She basically stole the child and ran out of the state. Poor kid probably barely sees her mother because of her ego.
Skilled tradespeople are far more important than stock traders, bankers, lawyers etc. But are universally paid less.
...No, those people are important TOO.
They are paid more because their skills are harder to educate for; demand exceeds supply.
There is no need to insult and bring down white collar workers to boost blue collar ones.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 In my mind, "white collar" is too broad a term. I would say all value derives from farming and mining. That's where the stuff is. "Blue collar" workers add to that value by adding availability for tasks. There is some essential complexity in the world, which tends the be the domain of engineers and managers, where value is added by control. Then there is invented complexity, where the work is imposed by an authority, but no value is created. There live the bankers, traders, and lawyers.
Bankers and lawyers create value to our civilization too, even if less visibly, @@bytesandbikes.
You can't eat or drink money or legal documents but you do need them to keep everything running smoothly.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 I don't think bankers make money, or lawyers create documents of any specific value. What they do is deliberately deny access to those outside their cliques.
@@bytesandbikes when a lady claims you raped her and a lawyer finds evidence and saves you then you might reconsider your opinion on them.
Umm because everyone wants to pay 18-28 bucks an hour for a literal back breaking job our body's are ruined by our 50s and usually have 15years to go
Oh? So you rather go 70+K into debt with a degree you cannot turn into a job.....and end up working in retail for 40 years, while you complain that you cant "get ahead"?
>literal back breaking job
Tell me you dont know what carpentry is without telling me you dont.
@@WillmobilePlus I'm in carpentry you giant tool steel stud framing and yes it wrecks your body, I don't know why your going on about college debt I'm saying tradesman deserve fair compensation because we build the world.
Outside of cities the pay is more 10-18, $28 and hour is doctor money for rural places.
@@ctg4818 i 100% agree I have to travel 1.5 hrs for work for decent pay nothing local pays well besides local lumber mills, if you consider 25$hr decent anymore
You already get fair compensation otherwise no one would be doing it. No matter how much you pay people everyone still cries that it's not enough.
I was a carpenter for about 6 years. I went to a trade school, and got certifications just prior to that. I was working on everything from small home renovations and restraunts, to 200+ year old churches, and government buildings. Very few days we're not exhausting, and there were many days that I believed I may never make it back home. Every day, I was either in a crawlspace, on a roof, carrying tremendous amounts of weight, or digging holes, and mixing concrete. Occasionally there would be a trim job, or some siding, but that was rare. I have been injured, and have seen many others get injured as well. A few of my co-workers were decent people, but most of them were a$$holes, and some of them were absolute dogsh!t excuses of human beings. I never made alot of money, and I had to deal with surprise furloughs of unknown length, especially during the pandemic. All the while, my boss would constantly complain that he couldn't find anyone who wants to be a carpenter, and no one wants to work. I just went along with it, and pretended to agree with him. I got fed up one day, and filled out an application for a retail job, and the interview was basically them telling me how great it would be to work there. I was expecting to take a pay cut, but they offered me more money, for a job that's way less physically demanding, way less stressful, with better co-workers, and climate controll. Good riddance to my carpenter career. I'm in my 30's, and I'm retired from that sh!t. I feel bad for those who are in there 60's, who will never retire from the trade, and will probably die on a job site. For anyone who goes into carpentry, good luck. I hope things change for you, and the industry is better than it was when I left it. I have this advice. Don't just learn learn to be a carpenter. Get some experience in other fields as well, so if you feel that your stuck in a dead end job, you have a way out.
60 in 3 months. Carpenter contractor. Make 45$/hour. I have my tools and 24 years old truck. Not even 10k at account. Will die working. Worked at the house of owner of target like employee and CFO of Target. Many photos on the internet of my work. But who cares, account standing is only what counts.
@@zell863 dying on a jobsite surrounded by a bunch of grumpy geezers that don't care about you sounds like the dream.
In 2016 I consulted with a local build assist contractor who pulled permits and supplied subs as needed sort of like U-Build It but a local operation. The only two jobs he said I could not do myself were the carpentry and the painting. The second one caught me by surprise. Why would painting be off limits? I ended up not doing the project. But a couple of years later when a good friend got into the masonry trade he did some work for that contractor I had talked to and it turned out he reaped more profit from carpentry and painting than any other part of the process and that's why he wouldn't allow the owner to do those jobs. He told the owner builders the price for labor on carpentry and painting was extremely high and then paid the lowest wages he could get away with. A lot of pros in those fields but around here at least a lot of dunks, addicts and unstable personalities. Get a guy out of drug money and he'll show up for two weeks at $15 bucks an hour. Whether with my father or while in college I've done a little bit of every job in home construction even though I do something else for a living. It's hard work and I respect all the true pro's in the industry but the industry also has too many slackers, thieves and amateurs with licenses. Oh, make no mistake, that last group has a lot of experience but they still provide amateur level work while demanding professional level pay because they have the license. Commensurate pay and professional respect would go a long way towards decreasing the labor shortage. But being a reliable and trustworthy pro who delivers pro level results for the money asked would help as well. My rule is if I can do the job better than you can then why would I pay you? What I can do I do well but a pro should equal or exceed my capabilities.
In the medical field I've experienced companies tell me they had to cut pay because of impending medicare or insure cuts. So they made the cuts and then the commensurate medicare or insurance reimbursement cuts never happened or were less than anticipated. DId we get our pay restored? Of course not. In times where our offices were booming and reimbursements were up did we see a pay increase? Of course not. Companies once had the advantage of little publicly available information about changes in any industry no matter what that might be. But with the maturation of the internet and the easy availability of information regarding industry reality versus company lies employees often know very well that they are being used while the powers that be do no more work but make a lot more money.
LOTS of insights on two industries. You should write a book!
There are a lot of criminals that can't work any where else. High school dropouts are a pretty good portion of the population. Those are the grumpy people that everyone talks about.
One thing I think you're missing is the utter disrespect to younger people. And I don't mean that as a "Waaaa, I'm Gen Z and people are mean to me!" way. I mean I've watched this from the sidelines as the decades have rolled on. The previous as generation aged out 20-30 years ago and the newer old generation is just a bunch of ***holes. Not all of them. Just a lot of them. They got the giving each other crap banter thing down, which is fine. That has existed for as long as physical labor has been here, the beginning of time. No problem with it. It's just not tempered by the part where they actually care about teaching. I watched it devolve from the old guys yelling at young guys and in the process giving an explanation of what they did wrong, to just yelling. Sure. Eventually there's an explanation, but the two are divorced. Boss goes off angry, "Not dealing with this right now.", then eventually comes back after they've cooled down. It's just not the same. Now, I understand the environment isn't like it was. There's more stress, time crunches, and pressure from above to get things done on a tight deadline to be able to make payroll on crap paying projects. But they cannot do that and expect people to stay. They wouldn't have stayed if the people who taught them did that. It screams they are not valued, not worth the time to teach, and the only reason they are coming back to teach is because they need a body doing the job. While the older generation that's gone now was on average more, "You messed up but we'll fix this, here's how.", just with considerably more cussing. The stereotype of the grandfatherly carpenter teaching the young kid just does not exist in most of the industry anymore. Today's generation isn't being taught a breadth of skills. They are taught what needs be for this job site. Which means some massive holes and blind spots, which lead to mistakes, which causes the above, and people just leave.
In another 20-30 years there are going to be virtually no true master carpenters left. We'll have deck builders, framers, fencer builders, and blah blah blah blah blah. But very very few who can pickup any job and just do it at a high level. Because the construction company they worked for only did framing, and the deck builder was a seperate crew that only did decks, and yada yada yada. There'll be some crossover, but the results aren't going to be pretty. We already see it happening now in results when we look. I'm not a carpenter, never been a carpenter, and I'm getting to the point that I will never hire one. I have seen too many bad results from people I know have years of experience. Just not well rounded experience. I cannot trust them to do quality work because their education in carpentry was spotty at best.
@@halycon404 so you finished staying you won't hire a carpenter. So who is going to nail the lumber together?
34 year old carpenter here, and newly licensed small business owner. I am a carpenter mainly because I enjoy it. Working with my body in fresh air, building something from scratch and standing back and appreciating its lasting value. We carpenters are generalists, we do everything the specialists can't do. It's never monotonous, there's always something new to learn and to experience. Real carpenters love it and find pride and honor in their work. And carpenters become contractors who manage and run the whole project including all the subcontractor specialists. There is growth potential into a solidly middle class lifestyle, and there is no limit to what a contractor can build which is exciting. I've never been motivated by having more money than the next guy, I'm motivated to find an honest living that I enjoy which I have found. Following my father's example, I am now a second generation contractor and have just been hired to build my first home from the ground up. We need to show more respect to the trades as a society. We are an innovation oriented society so we confer status to new fields such as tech, however the tradesmen who've always been building your houses will continue, and I think we'll find the the blue collar jobs will resist automation longer than many of the white collar jobs. We need to focus on promoting and educating for the trades and giving tradesman the respect they deserve.
Hear, hear! Thanks for sharing. Wishing you success.
I don't supoose you work out of the Bay Area, CA?
@@based_yeoman9138 Yes I work out of Marin, George Turner Construction
I left construction because low pay, no benefits, don't get paid for drive time, hours are not set, you have to come in to find out if your able to work that day, you finish early you don't get paid for the whole day but the company keeps the extra money. Plus I had to supply my own tools and vehicle. I now make 50% more in a factory to a 1/4 of the effort.
The biggest problem I had with working in the trades was getting sent home the minute you weren't absolutely necessary and trying to survive on anywhere from 20 to 50 hours a week depending on the needs of the company. The pressure to ignore safety issues, rush through substandard work then take the blame for mistakes, plus the expectation to provide your own tools and truck, turned $20 an hour into more like minimum wage in reality, but I couldn't even rely on getting enough hours to pay bills and rent during bad weather or work shortages.
I thought employers ignoring safety precautions are purely Eastern European thing...
I'm a welder and god knows how many times I was told to work with grinder and welding out in a rain, f those bastards, who all drive newest mercedes benz while we welders and other skilled tradesmen spend HALF a salary for renting tiny studio apartment, damn I even worked on a car factory GAZ (lived my whole life right next to it), chassis welding, made trucks, which I could never afford.
I always forget my friend works as a debt collector in an office and earns 1.2 of what I do, despite him sitting in comfortable heated office wearing clean clothes and breathing NOT toxic vapors filled air, not burning his eyes with all those occasional welding sparks.
In Russia we too had widespread media and general public backed narrative like "SKILLED LABOUR SHORTAGE, BECOME WELDER/carpenter/electrician WELL PAID"
Yet all people who bought this do regret.
My grandfather was a welder in Soviet Union. His salary was enough to provide for himself, my grandmother, their two children and visit Moscow every weekend. Also then welders worked in pairs with general metalworkers, apprentice like guys, who would hold a metal for you, grind it, haul it etc. Now, you do everything by yourself. You unload metal, you grind it, you bend metal sheets, you cut pipes, you hold them for yourself, you paint them, you load finished products in trucks, yet you can barely sustain yourself with what you earn. But the company has 4 engineers with golden watches sitting at computers, doing nothing, and 4 accountants, while 4 guys (who are hired as welders) do all the job from cement mixing and pouring to finishing plaster and electrical matters.
And they have audacity to say young people don't want to marry and have children.
Imagine marrying, when a wedding will cost you 20 months worth of income, not including rings, honeymoon etc. And children are unaffordable by any means. No adequate government support, nothing.
I have been a carpenter for over 40 year's we are the backbone of the building industry, yet the most abused and leased payed, I grew up with a family in the trade and never looked at other option's, I would do thing's different to day, and told my son not to follow in my foot step's, most other country's require you serve an apprentership and gain a license, so you are not competing with those that bought a hammer and suddenly became a carpenter.
I’m training to be a carpenter right now and I love it however the pay is a lot less enticing than I thought it would be.
How much an hour would that be in your state,I am kindly asking because I am a carpenter
@@martinchitembo1883 SW Washington Journeyman Carpenters make about $43 an hour. Electricians and plumbers make over $50.
@@FonandSlimGamingyoutubechannel so backwards isn’t it. They need us to know all there trades plus build them a structure to work in. Love it
One issue with carpentry wages is that the field is wide open. Anyone can walk off the street and pick up a hammer. So they will start you off at some abysmal wage usually because they don't know if you're an actual skilled worker or just a felon addict who can't find other work. Actual merit varies widely. So it's up to you to not just show up and collect a check, you need to prove that you're a skilled and reliable worker and then you should ask for a BIG raise. And if they don't give you a big raise, you can start your own business or switch employers because there's so much demand.
If you like being a carpenter, that's the first step bc starting out of you'll get the short end of the stick. But don't fret, bc once you perfect your skills, you'll get paid way more. efficiency, quality of work, and people skills are what contractors are looking for.
I made over a $100k as a carpenter last year. My best year ever, but I had to travel all across America and work countless hours. I wasn’t working residential either. I was working power plants and I built scaffolds. A member of the UBC. I’m not as skilled as most carpenters but I specialize in scaffolds. There is a lot of money to be made on scheduled outages at power plants and refineries. You just have to be willing to work long hours and also be willing to travel. The money is out there. Go get it.
That pretty cool tho,where are you from?I’m new on CZcams and I’m a kind of person that love to chat and know people that got skills like yours and i don’t know if you want to make friends I just want to know more bout your profession tho 😊
My experience as carpenter is you get paid less, take on more responsibility and have more personal costs than any other trade. We have to facilitate the work of all other trades within the structure, buy our own tools and use our own vehicle.
Almost everyone could frame a wall. Few of us are foolish enough to make it our our career.
No shortage of people who want to build. A shortage of financial compensation to keep people around.
My father is a skilled carpenter and was self employed for 20 years but wasn't making enough to justify the headache of working with a few difficult home owners. He closed up during the pandemic but still does carpentry for a general contractor. It can be a tricky job that requires both creativity and practicality in equal measure. It can be unforgiving at times as you can't add length to something you've cut too short. I would pursue it and carry on the family tradition if it were better paying and more accommodating as a profession.
Another reason why trades in general are dying off in the United States is that they cost almost as much to train in as going to college. So the individuals who would have gone into these Blue collar jobs can't afford it. I was going to go to school to be an electrician at a local trades college here in Jacksonville a couple of years ago and the difference between trades training and associates degree was like $3,000
has this channel stopped making videos? I loved what you've done in the past and am awaiting more! Please let your adoring fans know!!!
From what I can see, there were major disputes between managers at Cheddar, which is currently causing this channel to have no new videos or updates.
@@sunshineimperials1600 Thanks for the input. Trying to decide if to keep subscription...
As a cabinet builder/installer, it's interesting what client and homeowner expectations are when it comes to cost. Some people think the cabinets shouldn't cost so much, but then spend that amount on the appliances and again on the countertops. I guess because it's just "basic wood box". I get so many people trying to talk me down on price for cabinets in their massive house, while I can't even afford to buy a house of any size. Not that there need to be equity and I deserve the same as them at face value, but since I'm self employed, I've poured money into building a functioning and efficient shop, and if I lower my price, that is costing me the money it's saving you
im gonnna make a guess before i get passed the 50 second mark and say back breaking labour. incredibly long hours, seasonal work, artificially low wages due to lack of apprentice retention/development.. and wages that have been stagnent since the 70's
I started out in a trade craft at 12$ an hour working 5 states away from home for 8months working 6 12s, everyone can say boohoo go to college boohoo get a better job but someone needs to build roads someone needs to build bridges build hospitals build homes and grocery stores everything and people should be compensated fairly especially with rising costs in America , terrible homes where I live in Washington start 250-300grand and the average sale price of vehicles in America today is 48,000
I was a framing carpenter for about a year and half. I was making $20/hr when I left and could barely keep my head above water. I got another job and got an immediate $5/hr raise.
Here in Australia all trades are regulated, registered, licensed and insured which makes trades consistent and desirable for young people finishing school.
Back in the 50s and 60as, a man could support his home, own a house, a couple of kids and a stay at home wife, and 2 cars off of a carpenters pay. The pay never rose after that, but the price of living did.
Val, I think this is true of most occupations. We live under a tremendous tax burden that was not present in the 50's and 60's. It seems like we make less. The truth is that local, state, and federal governments are choking us all to death.
It wasn't normal to own 2 cars in the 50s and 60s. The homes were also much smaller, didn't have garages, and children shared bedrooms.
This video failed to mention that during the mid 1970s, the people at the top who run the this miserable world decided to jettison labor unions. This resulted in tremendous abuse of everyone in the construction industry: contractors, skilled tradesmen, apprentices, and laborers... Stealing their tools while their backs are turned is a serios problem. And making excuses to refuse to pay them the last few hundred dollars of what they are owed after the work is completed is a problem for everyone. After a few times of that, they quit, and find another line of work.
On top of all that, the driving expenses are astronomical. They have to drive to several different stores to find a tool. Later when it is stolen, they have to repeat all the driving. They have to do a lot of driving to buy the materials, and a lot to pull building permits. It isn't worth it.
@@francismarion6400they still make $12 an hour here
@@francismarion6400 There is no way in the world that carpenters could possibly make $100,000/year, when everyone gets several bids, and they always take only the lowest bids every time, and the others have gotten nothing for their time working up the bids?
And after that, the theft of their tools is unbelievable, and the driving expenses are astronomical.
Also: Union carpenters aren't paid $100,000/year. So why would anyone want to pay non-union carpenters greater than union scale? It doesn't make sense.
@@WilliamBrinkley45 $12/hour isn't enough to be able to pay rent anywhere!
I mean, even before the pandemic, the only people I knew in carpentry were people with major felonies (or dishonorably discharged from the military) or were in the US illegally. That "average" seems on the high to what people on average are even paid in the industry. It's also physically demanding...61 is on the high end for the very skilled people left.
Noticed this too, never met any tradesman that makes anywhere close to the 70k a year those graphs were showing.
@@ctg4818 it varies alot by region. In a big northern city 70k after taxes is average with a proper trade and licence.
Way to stereotype millions of hard workers. I'm a commercial project manager and we verify all workers credentials (we get huge fines if they are illegal). The US issues millions of visa's, plus many relocate here permanently after their visa if no problems (meaning there's prolly 10 million + "illegals" that are just as much of a citizen as you are. Also very few have felonies, those people generally end up in landscaping, trash workers, etc not the skilled trades.
@@Syn410 bullshit dude. This is a lie. They work residential trades and for all kinds of smaller companies. So.e have visas, some were born here but hell yes they are doing construction
@@MrKongatthegates Of course some are, but he said the only people doing it are illegals. That's false, our average sites have between 300-500 legal workers, way more than even a large scale residential complex.
I worked as a finish carpenter, handyman and general contractor in my 20 years in the construction industry. I can tell you the problem is the system we use to build homes and repair them. General contractors, real estate agents and architectural firms take the most money out of the project. To that you add inflated materials cost and a consumer that constantly feels they are being rob and you have poorly pay carpenters. The biggest issue is no company can fix the system it wouldn't be profitable to do. I try and fail to pay good wages as another GC told me the money is on the contracts not the projects. As a GC you have to pay low wages and that means subcontracting others that are willing to bend the rules of bend them yourself. So GC have created a pool of unskilled labor that has no option but take the low wages. This creates more accidents that raise insurance and more mistakes that waste materials. The Architectural firms create plans mills populated by draftsmen that have no idea of what they are designing. The job of an Architect is to build a prestigious firm that can get the big contracts and put a kid that barely knows how to use Revit to design the building. In a better system all buildings would be design and build by the same firm with a real Architect overseeing the whole project. This would create savings, better design and eliminate the need for a GC. Finally the real estate industry really destroy the construction industry. There is a reason why home building is the least profitable branch of construction. Home building is the one that sustains more real estate workers. Most of the work agents, loan officers and others do is a total waste in the industry. After 20 years in the industry I can say go be a bartender it pays more and is easier. A good bartender makes close to 100k in a city. If you can handle running a business do handyman work. If you know how to square, level and cut you are ahead of most handyman services. What ever you do do not work for this slave wage industry.
Did finish carpentry for a extremely high end GC for 30 years they treated me very well, but 5 years ago I started a handyman business and and feel I can almost name my price and still have tons of work.
Q: Why America Is Running Out Of Carpenters
A: They're not being paid enough or given good working conditions. The wealth they generate is going to the people above them. Just like in most industries.
I count my blessings every day that I work for a good general contractor. 401k, full medical, dental, vision, and I've gotten $10/hour in raises in 2 years. Started at $25/hour and got bumped basically $5/year. The old timers we do have are friendly and try their best to teach you what they know. Unfortunately this is NOT the norm in the industry. I live in Seattle which is very progressive and our owners are well aware of the labor shortage and do everything possible to keep their crew around. It's almost triple in size and very few people opt to leave the company.
Im in seattle too. Union form carpenter mostly on high rises 52$ is our journeyman wage. Reading these comments it just sounds like they live in the middle of nowhere and non union.
you're missing an other massive reason. The current hiring practices push entry level trades people away. I have been hunting for a trade job for a second now, but no one wants to hire someone with less then 4 years experience for entry level pay. We've turned the trades over to hiring by college elites who've never worked our jobs or know the first thing that goes into changing a tire or squaring up lumber or metal. When I'm getting told I need 2 years experience to be a lube tech there's an issue.
2 solutions to the problem:
-1: have trade schools combined with practical education 50% School, 50% real life work in that way the future carpenter gets paid during the education years. Called Duales System in Germany
-2: maybe start building houses in a modern way that does not require so much manual labour on the construction side. Use more modern material instead of putting a house together from a stack of 2x4 on side. Pre manufacture the walls indoors, ship them and stick it together. As a result use more modern tools and offer better working conditions and less man power needed. A carpenter that can move parts with a lift can work more year injury free and can stay in the job till the real retirement age of 60+
The old school experienced carpenters have enough to do to fix all the existing houses.
Manufactured homes have a stigma attached no matter the results. Nobody likes them and only get them if that's all they can afford or get.
@@oldtwinsna8347 I'm not talking about fully assembled or fully identical homes. I'm talking of pre fabricated individual walls. Today every house has a construction plan with all the detailed measurements. I suggest it would be more efficient and labor friendly to manufacture the individual walls indoors and ship them to the construction side. In that way no one has to build walls from a big pile of 2x4 outdoors no matter what the weather conditions are. Maybe then a carpenter can and wants to work beyond the age of 50-55.
I'm an assistant manager for a gas station company. I literally have clerks that make more than the average carpenter. I worked construction. I know how hard it is. That's why I moved my profession. The career path although essential just isn't worth the money
Dude that cannot be true. I make 80k a year as a commercial trim carpenter and my local gas station pays 15 bucka per hour. Maybe in bumb fuck nowhere but not in any major city.
@@JamesJamesly I live in a mid sized urban city with a metro population of about 2.7 million people in Virginia, and the leed carpenter in the company I worked for was making $16hr. The supervisor who was above him was making $14hr.
@@kazeryu17the owner made $13
When I was entering HS, shop courses already were on a major decline beforehand. Some schools did have courses that were more involved than others. Put it this way. One school would bus student to job side and help them learn onsite for 2-3bours while others had 45m class where you would be lucky to learn how to bend conduit or make a bird house. IMO trades are great field to get into but not all can get experience needed. Tradesmen are under valued in our society.
There's another video by Business Insider that features big farmers saying "I can't find enough laborers (who want to work for peanuts below the min wage), the government should ship in more immigrants. Otherwise I'm just going to end up dumping good food." The management class would rather dump valuable goods and miss out on so much money, just because they refuse to raise the pay to the people who make that profit possible.
Pay and treat carpenters better and there will be more carpenters. Working people have learned to walk away from bad jobs. I quit after the first day of an office gig because it became evident the boss wasn't going to abide by basic labor laws, allow reasonable breaks, ie. the bare minimum. Pay and treat your employees well and they'll be loyal and hardworking. Treat them like they're totally replaceable and the bosses will say to themselves and anyone in media who will listen, "We can't find workers. Government help us. No one wants to work these days!" They want to pay less and have fewer breaks than the bare minimum, but they expect us to give our best work during the hours.
It's almost like a system where the guy on top gets everything possible and the workers are given as little as possible, over time, is an unsustainable, inhumane, unjust system. We will not be exploited or kept in poverty by their choice. We will unionize or walk away.
This is my story. Come to USA in 97. from former Yugoslavia at age 33. I knew I'm good at math and did test and was allowed in EE program. Finish entire math with grade A and electrical physics too. However, I was too old and at age 36 gave up on that and started work as a carpenter in 2002 or so. Good at math should give me some advantages. As soon as I started and two years after I was doing the most complicated roof framings at high end homes. Bogh tools and pickup and start like self-employed 2004 I was like self-employed 25$/hour. Today I'm at 45$/hour. And I'm broken, I think it is definition. I have money to pay for food and rent and for small car and my pickup for work and it is all. Never had money to start family and never had money to start flip houses. Today I'm 3 month short of 60. Was in same apartment for 21 years and they kick me out when I asked if they can paint it after 21 years. Now live in a duplex that my biggest customer offer me for a while. I do all that exist in carpentry, handrailing, crown molding at cathedral ceiling, roofs with irregular hips, stairs frame and trim. Only good that I did is I didn't stay working for companies because would be disabled now how much they used me. Would drive across city and do framing of roofs 14/12 for months. Or would carry 3/4 plywood for weeks. I would do better if would go for trucker, would have a small house. If someone need I will connect with my cl page so you can see my handy work. Yeah get tons of glory but like everyone else I'm not into glory I'm into green. My friend said to me recently "Ok you tried it for say 3-4 years and see there is not money for you but you needed 20 years to figure it out?".
It’s because nobody are willing to pay for quality work. They don’t want a job done right, they just want it done. I can get $50 per hour for custom cabinetry; however, they always haggle, supplies are expensive, it’s impossible to find good help who don’t steal, and you can’t do that type of work 40 to 50 hours per week. We need unions in the south, income disparity is finally beginning to shift but only top to bottom and manual labor is still considered the bottom
You have unions in the south. Teachers unions, cranking out workers who can't work.
Just compare the pay and service to society of a DEI HR employee and a experienced Carpenter and you will see exactly how far our society has gone wrong.
I was a carpenter for 17 years, after 2010, all work dried up. I have moved on, and changed profession. I would go back if the pay and more important job security was better. But that is unlikely to happen
TheHyperWolf I was born in 1964. I and my siblings went through all the same excellent public education in New Jersey, USA: elementary, middle, high schools. In 7th grade I had to take woodshop course & a home ec course: sewing.
I did sh&t at sewing. Was a disaster. And woodshop consisted of just fighting off bullies.
But, other than that, there was nothing wrong with the education.
But, THANK you for bringing up the fear of saws and other carpentry tools: because I certainly have ALWAYS had that fear. Still do.
The thing most people don't realize is labor is a commodity. Do I think there is a shortage no. There is a shortage of people willing to do it for pennies. I noticed the mean electricians income is 59k. Must have excluded the IBEW. 125k a year working just 40 hours a week. Every single year we have to turn applicants away and all of our work is manned. If you can't get employees try becoming a signatory at your local union hall. Then your work will be done right the first time, on time, and on budget.
I'm willing to bet that the companies that hire carpenters en mass for their big projects are actually fully capable of paying them a LOT more with benefits AND still be able to charge the exact same price for the build and STILL make a good profit. Anytime I hear about jobs having trouble finding people, it's simple economics. Follow the money and you'll find a very small percentage of it goes to the people who actually do the work. Supply shortages for materials aside, that is going for the crux of the matter of every single job out there that is struggling to find workers. Other issues like certifications (too many can work against you in some cases, and too little means you have no way of picking the right people) and early retirement aren't nearly as big of a factor. If the job payed well, treated the workers right, you'd have people on the job well into their 80s if they could still swing a hammer and teach the younger folks.
The uncertainty of the housing market means that everyone in the building chain takes a bigger chunk of the pie to hedge against any coming downturn, be that from financial markets, from regulation changes, material shortages, etc.
I was working for a international company for a while and supposedly they walked away from a job because the job wouldn’t pay enough for the higher ups to get their bonus and left the actual framers without work
There is some company’s that pay overtime BUT then use that as an excuse to pay you less by the hour . If you are an illegal framer you’ve probably never got paid overtime
I'm a carpenter. Guy I work for has no problem paying plumbers, electricians, etc 75-150 an hour but really complained cause I wanted 45 an hour and im his best carpenter. Kinda planning on getting a different job once the economy picks up. I love carpentry and have done it for 10 years but my body is starting to complain so if it doesn't start paying better I'm gonna have to find something else.
It is good to see people below not saying " no one wants to work" farce. It is not just low pay it is the toll it takes on your body. Your quality of life shortens working the trades. Bad knees, injuries, general wear and tear. I was raised into the trades as a hobby and partially worked in it from house building to auto mechanic. I am in my 50's. My knees hurt, I have arthritis in my elbow, I am simply worn down.
I’m a carpenter and I love it. Since I was a little kid I wanted to build buildings. For me I
Love it so much I couldn’t ever quit. It’s hard work but when you’re doing what you’re born to do it’s not so bad. I stopped working for other people at 22 for these reasons in the video. Bidding my own jobs and doing my own thing helps me with my second passion which is eating and paying the bills.
I've been a carpenter for 32 years. Noone wants to pay anything, I've been in the same 20ish dollars an hour for nearly 20 years. Immigration is a major part of it. Licensing would change all of that. But no one is capable of making any company pay us. That is why there will no longer be any American carpenters whatsoever, in another 10 years.
I’ve been a commercial union carpenter going on 9 years now. We are in fact one of the lowest paid trades on the job. Pension is okay at best. I am site superintendent now and really don’t make a significant amount more than the journeymen trades on the site. However, I still make enough for my wife to stay home with the kids. We don’t overspend and have no debt but our house.
I’m a self employed carpenter in Dallas Texas. I make $1,000 per day on average. Some jobs I make $2,000 a day. I worked for $18 an hour for 6 months, quit and went out on my own. Can confirm a shortage. Can confirm low wages for working for others. But man, go out on your own, and the money is there, and there is more work to be had than you can imagine!
I do not know how you made 100$/hour. I'm at 45$/hour like self employed.
@@zell863 you need to increase your prices man!
I remember back in high school in the early 00's my county had gotten rid of all vocational classes. Replaced them with AP and "dual enrollment" classes cause vocational ed was for the "dumb kids".
There's a massive shortage of trades people now cause 25+ years ago we decided it wasn't worth training people and presented it as low paying, unrespectable work.
I’m a high demand carpenter with a great reputation in my area. Due to high demand and low supply of good, experienced carpenters, I’ve been able to raise my price by 50% in the past 3 years. People who aren’t willing to pay my price end up regretting it because of the quality of work and of their work ethic. Eventually if you want good carpenters with good work ethic, you’ll have to pay good responsible people enough to be worth being a carpenter. If you keep paying carpenters low wages, you’ll only get people choosing the trade who aren’t responsible enough to make it in other professions and people will regret hiring them.
Same in the flooring industry. I was getting $2 a square foot for wood or LVT installation pre pandemic. I get $3 now without issue. Too many older guys are retiring and dying, with very few people to replace them.
Every worker wants to be paid more; every employer does not want to have to pay more. Jobs are getting busier and therefore more difficult, and people just want to be compensated for the extra load that they have to bear. That is what higher wages is supposed to cover. If you aren't going to get paid what you believe you are owed, why take on that particular job? So you hunt for something else, damaging the piece of the work force that everyone else thought was secure because they did not know any of the details/problems going on..
We can't have the world force get damaged, I think that was the plot of Final Fantasy 7...
ive been doing my carpentry apprenticeship for 3 years now and i enjoy most days, i love seeing clients faces on renos when you bring their ideas into reality, i enjoy new construction from dirt too someone's home, i make decent money for my age and have managed to buy a truck and around 3000$ worth of tools from sweat and side jobs. this trade will not die anytime soon get your ticket and take pride in building homes for people to raise families in
I was a carpenter for 5 years, Pay was terrible for the toll it takes on the body. Got a job as a security guard/heavy equipment operator and make $10 an hour more.
Companies need to pay more
#4: The infinity amount of specialty tools needed for the carpentry career. Odd job comes up, and you have to buy a $350 tool that you end up using once every 4 years. Multiply this on almost each job, and now you have a storage and transport problem. You need storage sheds and shops to keep these rarely used tools. Then you need a large trailer to tote them all to each job. Got to spend money to make money but sheesh.
What are examples of those kind of high cost/low use tools? I think there is a business opportunity there in renting those those tools out to spare carpeters all the costs of buying for almost no use.
@@mrbloodmuffins Biscuit tool, concrete hole booring tool.
The high school I went to in Georgia has had an excellent set of trades classes for decades. We weren't a very large school, but we still managed to get a couple hundred kids through those classes and out the other side with great trade skills and a solid knowledge base. But then those kids graduate, and they're only offered $8 hourly with no benefits and are expected to find somewhere to live on that (since for some reason alot of parents around here believe that turning 18 means you're magically ready to go off on your own so you get the boot.) They then dump on everything they learned about trade work in school to take a position at a company that pays more. For us in GA, this also helps feed the pipeline of young workers out of rural areas to population centers, where the money is. So you end up with the Atlanta area thriving and growing while everywhere else dries up and dramatically increases in age.
The only thing I can think of as far as the certification problem is maybe standardization. Plumbers' and electricians' work is powered by the city's public works. And without a natural disaster or accident, the woodwork of a house should be relatively intact after construction. Less maintenance is needed. Carpenters would be called for remodeling or building an addition but after the construction of a building, they're kind of done.
As an ex-carpenter, when you take into consideration the time required to journey out compared to your pay scale your always going to be better off financially getting an associate degree at a local community college for any degree.
Also, as time goes on and we have more educated people in our society compared to uneducated, people begin to understand there’s easier and more comfortable ways to make more money.
Overall, too much work for too little pay.
Carpenters are often treated like crap and not paid fairly is the obvious problem.
Why dont they have leverage over the builders these days?
@@dannydaw59 in many areas it's basically impossible to be a part of a union and actually work as a carpenter. Also many or most homes that are being built today are basically designed to require less skilled craftsmanship using things like laminate floors, mdf trim, and pre cut framing packages. I work for myself as a carpenter working with wood and building useful stuff for people is the work I've ever done that I actually love.
I could go on for hours about how labor organizing in the carpentry trade in the south is difficult. Most people who work as carpenters are men who can't really do other things easily. Either that's because they don't have many other skill (usually not the best carpenters) or people who have dealt trauma and working with wood gives them some peace. Because you are dealing mostly with uneducated men who listen to conservative media non stop convincing men to work together rather than against each other feels like pushing a rope.
I guess i am one of the lucky ones, I am an electrician, and during my apprenticing year, I was treated very well by my senior sparkies, they treated me with respect and taught me with patience, sure there are some bad ones, but never something that made me want to quit, now I am teaching a young guy in his early 20s about highrise fire alarm. honestly, our relationship is very friendly, construction really is awesome (for me).
Residential is its own animal, but there’s enough money in commercial and industrial sectors for unions to thrive. It’s heartbreaking that more people don’t fight for this in their own states. I’m a union worker from Minnesota and I make $42.56/hour as a LABORER, and that’s just what’s on the paycheck not including benefits.
Of course, I’ve seen the writing on the wall; I’m currently switching to the Pipefitters at 30 years old, so that I can fall back on HVAC servicing when my body starts to break down. I’ll get a bit of a pay raise with the fitters but I honestly don’t think about the money as much anymore. I don’t have to being in a strong union state, and because I don’t have to worry about money I can really think about and be excited for my future.
I am going to miss my current trade though. It keeps me in good shape and I love the physical aspects of it.
I'm 21 and just from my personal experience the skirled trades management want to complain that my generation doesn't want to work for them and then turn around and require at least 1 to 2 years of experience as an apprentice already to become an apprentice with them at low starting pay. Also I currently work in manufacturing set up and make more than I would if I did construction in my area however retail jobs are only a few dollars less an hour who in there right mind will work any of these jobs if working in an airconditioned store pays the same or more and often has better 401k and insurance
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it takes a 5 year apprenticeship(2,000 classroom hrs.) to be a union carpenter(that's a NO BS qualified Journeyman)another 5 to master the Skills and Knowledge involved. Numerous continuing education courses to stay abreast of new materials equipment and tech(yes technical things you are clueless about)all the skilled trades are going through this extinction episode because REAL skilled tradesman would rather their sons and daughters do ANYTHING else than what they have spent a life mastering to provide a life for their families.
The reward the general public gives them for providing modern climate controlled living and working environments is to label them dumb manual laborers(untouchables).
Management(educated five year different schools) is constantly trying to decrease their wages, benefits and provide them with third world working conditions.
Give them some respect, quit treating them like third class citizens. Their careers are short that is only one(generally overlooked) reason they are compensated with high wages, by the time they've mastered their jobs their bodies are physically wrecked. Game over, way before 65 for majority of them.
Being a cut man on a framing crew was the greatest honor as a young boy. I did honorable work that could not be farmed overseas. I worked so hard that I could cut for 2 master framers. But when I was asked to move up to be a master framer, I just wasn't fast enough. The master framer just has a finer understanding of geometry. So my boss referred me to a builder to become a superintendent with words like "Hire him as a super before he kills us all." I love this industry.
I’m 30, been building for about 8 years now. I’ve been strongly considering a new career as of late. I live in a smaller rural area the pay even for an experienced foreman is $25 or under. The only way to really make a good living is to join a union and go on the road. But as a family man that’s a tough choice to make. I’ve always found it funny that we pay the guy who gets water into the house more then the guy who built the damn house. Anyway, for me the answer has come in a transition into HVAC work..
Running out of carpenters? I just watched a house be built down the street from us and no one on the carpenter crew spoke a bit of English. They were excellent carpenters, a bit unconventional but quick, efficient with the lumber and accurate with getting the two stories up, plumb, level and square. If you can't grow them from the supply of kids growing up here, just across the border there is an ample supply. Some of this is our antiquated immigration policies as the metrics just don't add up when towns and cities are drying up in some places due to the lack of economic opportunities while other places are overheated by inflationary pressures. Jobs create more economic development and vice versa in a "virtuous cycle". Looking at you, Washington...
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More bad news; if you think they will raise pay or offer incentives you have another thing coming. They will simply replace the industry and everything will go to factory home building. This is how it happens.
A carpenter with a full suite of tools that can install a hip roof on one job and go the next and build an interior stairway start to finish simply cannot be paid what he’s worth(I am one of them).
Solutions:
Work for yourself and never ever negotiate price.
Find a new occupation.
They'll simply get a bunch of Mexicans to do it for shit pay
I have been in the carpentry field since 1978 now 62. Had some rough years when I was younger but always loved the job. Obtained my class A contractor license in 1992.but keep my tools on. Built up a good reputation in a coastal VA. Oceanfront town but always seemed to barely make it. Two years ago raised my rates significantly. Busy as I can be. But at 62 my body is worn out. If you enjoy the trade stick with it and look earn as much as you can. It's been a good tough career but I didn't have to sit behind a desk.
Now 62 years old is not old anymore
It never ceases to amaze me how companies ignore that basic rule of supply and demand. If demand is high, but supply (including workers) is low. Charge more and pay the workers more. It's almost like companies try their very hardest to not be capitalist except when it only benefits them.
The only way to make any real money as a carpenter is to be a union carpenter in a city. Here in Chicago you can make around $50/hr as a union carpenter. However, it’s extremely difficult to get into the carpenters union here. Most people have to wait a couple years at least. It’s a real in-demand position when in terms of union. However, you can work non-union no problem and find a job real easy. But you’ll cap out at like $30/hr. Same for all the other labor unions here. I’ve been trying to get into the electricians union here for a couple years no luck. There’s 600 applicants every year and only about 100 get in. I could get a non-union electrical job that pays $18 with no promise of a raise. But I get into the union and guaranteed to make $50 in 5 years
Can confirm. I'm a union carpenter in Chicago. For commercial work you make over $50 an hour as a journeyman, and all union carpenters, be they apprentice or journeyman get the same hourly fringe benefit package that is around $35 an hour. Those benefits include healthcare, annuity, pension union dues, and a few other smaller benefits. Residential carpenters make a little over $40 an hour, but get the same benefit package. That pay and benefits make us a bit more resilient to economic fluctuations. There's a 4 year on the job apprentice program with pay that increases each year until journeyman. Only about 1 in 5 people make it through the apprentice program.
The unions also offer skill advancement classes free of charge to expand your skills. I think it's only New York, L.A, and Hawaii surpringly that have comparable pay. All in all, it's a pretty good deal. Don't stop trying to get in, especially for the electricians. It's not easy. For the pay, they really expect you to earn it, and we can always use more guys in the trades.
You could make lot of videos that are "America is running out of [job]", and the answer is always at least partially "[job] doesn't pay enough."
Woodworking is so fun but time consuming…I loved shop class in middle school…I made an amazing two toned cutting board….now I work as an engineer designer and in a warehouse with all kinds of power tools and machinery
37 year old carpenter on the home repair side. This is my 2nd year making over a six figure income fixing homes. Downside… I work alone and only getting older, and I wasn’t going to make this amount if I stayed on a crew. Which I left four years ago.
I made a good living as a lead. But you’re working all the time. I still work all the time. But at least I’ve tripled my income.
Critique here: Cheddar usually does great background on their videos, but I feel like this one was lacking. What do carpenters do? I know they build furniture, but do they lay drywall? I don’t know. I feel like a job description should have been included in this video.
Carpentry doesnt really refer to building furniture. Thats more of a woodworker. A carpenter is generally a home builder. Its kind of a jack of all trades role. You need to know how to frame, how to do some concrete, and have a basic knowledge of how all the systems of a house play in to one another to be a solid carpenter. Its a ton of knowledge that takes years to build by being in the field and interacting with different building technologies that perform differently.
You couldn’t figure any of that out from visual clues?
Lets do some math here. if you're building a house for a client and your bid, lets say is $1,000,000. You start to move forward.. Even if you have 10 guys on at $90 an hour that's only $27,000 for 300 hours each worker. Totaling out to roughly $270,000 for 10 guys working 300 hours each. Materials will maybe cost you $350k - $500k. Work will get done at a reasonable time. Nobody wants to work until 8PM (some times later!) framing houses, rough work, etc. We much rather be at home with our wife and/or kids. Give us the proper wage and we will work a proper speed. Contractors need to stop being greedy. When you're building a $1M home for $350K (not including labor) I think it's wrong to sit there and give the guys who are building the whole thing $12 an hour.
That's not how the real world works. Houses don't get built at 70% margin that's absurd.
I agree with the reasons of why there are so few carpenters. I am awaiting my red seal certification (Canada based) and I see it all the time. One thing Canada is moving towards is the certification of more trades. They want to certify carpenters like they do electricians and plumbers which will have an impact on this issue. This could be a benefit as there will be a higher standard of education and work completed but at what cost to the current workforce? Canada is also moving towards more energy efficient housing so this quality of work will be a necessity
I love being a carpenter. I find more loyalty and respect with my coworkers and other subs working the trades than I ever did sitting behind a desk
Because it’s back breaking work and in Canada they don’t get paid that much. Out of all the trades it’s the lowest paid.