Testing the Sigma SD Quattro H in the Black Hills
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- This is truly a camera like no other. For better or worse.
I'm taking my recently built up Sigma SD Quattro H camera setup with me to the Black Hills of South Dakota for a short trip. Here are some initial thoughts with the camera and lenses I brought.
I've been photographing a lot of family stuff along with some infrared on the camera as well, so subscribe if you're looking forward to seeing more about this unique camera.
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“Only ten hours drive away” - that casual sentence just blew my tiny European mind
Canadian here, I can relate to that feeling sometimes... And then sometimes I'll drive 8 hours straight for three days visit 😅
You can drive for over 50 hours and still be in the same state here :P (Western Australia).
Make me realize how HUGE the U.S is. Probably take a week or 2 just to travel east - west
Wanna have your mind blown again? My friends and I once drove from South LA in California, to the SF Bay Area and it took about 7 hours. 7 hours of driving, and we were still in the same state. Keep in mind, the start and end points aren't even at the edges of California so you could drive hours more and still be in the same state.
It's possible to drive for 12 hours and still be in florida
Anyone else loving the studio lighting setup? Great video as always!
I love my SD Quattro - but I treat it like an old medium format film camera (and it gives similar results, direct to digital). Thus, nearly always on a tripod, and using the multi-shot SFD mode (which truly requires initial processing in Sigma Photo Pro). Huge files, great results, requires thoughtful slowdown of technique. I've since moved on to the Sigma fp, which is the opposite - ISO insensitive, still quirky/fun and with great Sigma photo profiles even shooting RAW. I"ve come to appreciate SPP but always have to finish (just to crop, even!) in other software. It does a great job in monochrome, too. The Sigma MC-21 adapter allows full autofocus/connectivity with the fp, so i can use my older SA-mount lenses. Works well for me.
-Tom
You are definitely brave for doing this ! I have come to realisation that camera nerds like us get too lost in the uniqueness and get obsessed with some of these cameras. But sadly reality of travel with family is that convenience is a huge factor. I no longer want to stress about the gear not working and want to enjoy my time travelling. I am happy using my older Fuji XT2 for trips like these as I am used to it and know it will give me results I want without thinking.
Yep, I agree with you! And the XT2 is the best of both worlds. Cool camera and also convenient :) My camera of choice for family trips when I want photography to get out of the way is the Ricoh GR or Pentax K-1. I can count on the results (like your Fuji xt2), they both inspire me, and I know the controls like the back of my hand.
Tent camping with kids is rewarding. What a great trip.
Welcome to Iowa! I've lived here for my 60 plus years!!
Best
Duane
I finally went through Iowa. Will never go back! :) Ha ha just messin... But seriously, I will probably never be back.
I did go through Mason City and stay in the Frank Lloyd Wright hotel.
I've been using the sd quattro for years. And in the past year I tried six other brands new and modern and sold them all. But the SD quattro remains. As strange as it is, I love it.
Since you don't like working with the sigma software I would very strongly advise you to shoot JPEGs. since I started doing this I don't care for the raw files anymore. Also the build in color modes and the way you can tweak them gives very artistic results. Try using the camera in a bit more creative way without trying to reproduce reality exactly as it is. That's not the usual advice you get for using this camera and I also find out that I can never reproduce the look of the straight out of camera JPEGs when working on a raw file in sigma's dedicated software. And I definitely like the look of the JPEGs more than the raw files even if they have a little bit less details :)
you also found some great lenses. I have been using the 30 millimeter kit lens which is nice but I would love to find some other ones too.
I'm looking forward to your next video and hopefully you give my advice a try.
Black and white photography with high iSO is also interesting.
Lovely photos! My favourite was actually the one of the car upright with the bird flying away. The timing was perfect 😊👌
Definitely some luck there ;) Thanks
The nicest thing is that you have had lots of fun with your kid (you can hear how excited he was) and also you took great photos. Well done James :)
Hey there ! I bought an SDQ-H last August and I've used it extensively for a lot of lanscape photography.
A few thoughts :
first is the fact that I personally do NOT want to use SPP for file processing. Thankfully, the SDQ is the only SA mount camera that can shoot DNGs. They are 12bit instead of 14 (and thefiles are huge), so you loose a tiny bit of dynamic range (that isn't really that camera's forte anyway), but you keep all the details and most importantly you keep the colors.. That allowed me to get those files through my usual Capture One processing without an issue. I don't care about the absolute best image quality possible if that means using SPP again. Biggest downside of this is the writing speed to the UHS-1 card.
Second is the fact that the camera EATS through batteries. If you happen to have any Panasonic BLF-19, they are identical to the BP-61 that this camera uses. They're also much easier to buy when it comes to 3rd party batteries, the BP-61 replacements are kinda rare. Also, it does not only eat through batteries, it also apparently has a very heavy processing going on when Live View is active, making the camera heat up quite a lot. I get decent battery life and I manage to keep the camera cool enough by turning it off whenever I can. It's pretty fast to start so no worries there.
For lenses, as far as I'm aware there is only one SLR lens system that is compatible with the SA mount cameras : M42. All other mounts have shorter flange disatnces making them impossible to adapt without optical elements in the adapter, degrading quality quite a bit. If you permanently modify old Pentax K lenses, they fit in the SA mount, but if you don't modify them you'll end up with scratches on the hot mirror and around the lens mount. contacts. I bougnt a Nikon F to Pentax-K adapter which allows me to use my Nikon F mount lenses with it, albeit with a pretty bad quality drop. I managed to find an adapter ring to adapt M42 lenses on SA mount, but I had to get it imported from Ukraine, those are super duper rare (I also paid something like 40 bucks for a small piece of metal). When adapting lenses that are not corrected for figital cameras (i.e that will have light rays hitting the sensor at a more acute angle), you will have a problem with side cyan / gree fringing. What happens is that light coming sideways, the path inside the sensor is longer compared to if it came straight up, meaning that there is green photons absorbed in the blue layer and red ones absorbed in the green later, as well as a decrease of red photons reaching the red layer, leading to a pretty heavy green/cyan side cast. It's fixable in post, you just have to apply a gradient filter with the correct color settings, but it's definitely something to be aware of if you plan on adapting film era lenses to this camera.
Lastly, I would say that I would have never bought this camera without the 2 part review that Forgotten Cameras made about the SDQ (not H). I have a lot of cameras and I'm mostly shooting Nikon nowadays, but I do not want to sell my SDQH for any reason whatsoever. There is special about this camera, both in the images I get out of it, the absolutely great build quality and ergonomics, the sound it makes, and all the quirks of the camera making it hard to use, which makes getting the shot with it so much more thrilling than with any other digital camera I've used. All of my camera are tools for my creative vision, this one definitely doesn't feel like one. It's as close as I could get to a digital film camera for sure.
I wish you all the best in doing a full review of the SDQ-H, that was a really hard process for me. Being objective about this camera is extremely difficult as there is as much bad things as there is good things and trying to find a middle point might have been the hardest thing I've had to do yet. Good luck !
Yep, you're last paragraph really sums up my thoughts so far. It has me really mixed where I love it sometimes and I wouldn't say ever hate it, but just recognize it's weaknesses.
I'll try the DNG trick. I remember learning about that from someone (I had watched ForgottenCameras video years ago, maybe he said it) but I had forgot!
I always enjoy your videos and the shots you capture. This was really special because of the remote locales I'm way more than 10 hours from. And what I'm enjoying most is seeing what a great dad you are-you and your son will remember this trip forever!
As someone who lives an hour away from Banff Canada I really have to say that these black hills are so beautiful. Love the way that lake looks. Could literally sit in a lawnchair all day and just stare at it. Another great video James! Love your channel.
Sigma should reintroduce this camera in a L-mount version with IBIS while working on their full frame camera. IMHO
That would be neat
I would love this. L mount APS-C Foveon sensor. There's just so many more lenses to play with including from Sigma themselves! I have and really like the dp0 Quattro and it's great for landscapes. Stupendous. I treat it as a big little medium format camera (I am aware of how that jumble of words sounds). And I'd love another focal length without buying yet another body.
Truth be told, I had completely forgotten about the Sigma Company's own exclusive mount.
They would indeed do well to simply adopt the L mount on their cameras, while perhaps continuing to offer lenses in Sigma mount by custom order.
I don't know if they ever released sales figures for their bodies, but in thousands it's maybe only a single digit number.
Great video Snaps! Love the photos! Something about camping and cameras so nostalgic! Thanks for sharing as always!
Lovely shots
I really liked the new narrative format and the lighting looks great!
The image quality regarding both textures and colors is stunning, no other camera serie gets it this way.
That’s my home state! My favorite photograph from there is exact visuals on insta dude hasn’t posted in awhile but some of his best work is from the black hills. But truly it’s the best part of South Dakota.
That was a cool review and seemed like an awesome trip as well
Excellent photographs!!
I've been following you for a couple of years when you had like 2k subs or something, really enjoy your content, especially pentax stuff and older things. Keep it up
New snappiness video always makes my day but then I remember that the used camera market is about to climb again
Thanks for the modern day trip down memory lane. I grew up outside Cedar Falls and had an Aunt and Uncle north of Sturgis so this journey and a side trip to see the "Faces on the Mountain" were rites of passage in my youth. Great exploration of one of my favorite technical exploration. I still own a Sigma SD14 and 18-200 the 2nd generation of Foveon technology.
ah, the SD Quattro...One of my favorite cameras. I ultimately had to sell mine as I can't fund multiple systems and it's too limited to be my only camera. But when/if I can, it would be the first I'd re-buy. I felt pangs of nostalgia for those colors + micro-contrast, the quirkiness of handling, and the sheer bullet-proof beefiness of it...And then I saw your huge zoom lenses and remembered why I prefer M43 now, haha.
BTW, the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 Art is a brilliant walk-around lens for the SD-Q. It can be set to auto-crop on the H but I've heard the imaging circle is large enough to still cover the APS-H sensor. It's a small prime and it has the nicest rendering of any lens I've ever used. Lovely, soft bokeh and a vintage look wide open without being unusably soft. Yet sharp as a razor stopped down.
i really like your videos man. you fill a very niche spot in photography youtube
Lovely review. I really like your vibe, please keep going :D
really appreciated the description of Black Hills in the beginning! not everyone is an American and you recognising it is awesome ❤
Very nice pics, my advice to treat Quattro colors (which are quite good already in Standard +2 saturation in my opinion) is to not try to nail the WB in SPP, which is almost impossible, just to bring it somehow close of where you want it and then finishing it with another editing program like PS or Affinity, I usually tend to have better results (for my eyes at least) like that. Just that you mentioned in the video: I really think there is something going on with the SDQH's AF precision, because I've heard about it a lot while there are basically no complaints that I've found about the "regular" SDQ. An my personal experience having had both is the same: the SDQ was almost always spot on, while the SDQH backfocused regularly with a lot of different lenses and was driving me mad. At the end sent the camera all the way to Sigma Japan where they supposedly install some kind of "custom" version of the last FW and when the camera came back focus was spot on, but I've never understood exactly what they did..
2:28 you can almost see the 10 hour drive on your windshield haha.
Jokes aside I just stumbled across your channel, love what you're doing.
Thanks for stopping by!
that name makes me giggle every single time i see it
Love this camera , just great sharpness , 😂internal contrast , simple operation , and yes it over heats in the summer , noisy beyond iso 100 .
Have been waiting for the 100 mg sensor upgrade camera . Had it since they first came out .
A legendary gem, quite unknwown the SD line is nicknamed "the little Hasselblad" for a reason
I agree about the tendency toward green in the images...but I think they look great, and very appropriate for those landscapes.
I have a Sigma SD Quattro, not the H. Even though i shoot just about everything with Fuji X cameras, i still wheel out the SDQ fairly often. Today i shot an outdoor event with the SDQ and the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art. That lens is utterly awesome and made for this camera. The autofocus isn't as bad as people would have you believe, particularly if people aren't moving much. The microcontrast and detail from this combination is breathtaking. I still love using this dead system, and intend to keep going as long as the camera keeps working. 🌹
I was just in the Black Hills as well! If you are back in the general area, check out Shell Canyon in the Bighorn Mountains. Seems like an off the radar spot when I went.
Went to Badlands as well...
It really is a tough situation with Sigma cameras it seems, you and many others point out the great upsides to using them, but the downsides always seem to outweigh the good.
Looking forward to your next video. I used to daily carry a Ricoh GX100 and now I carry a GR. Even when using another primary camera, since as you know: switching to your secondary is faster than reloading ha ha!
What the sigma?
All jokes aside, wonderful and informative video! great work.
I had this camera and literally all the lenses, it took years to acquire. I had taken my best and worst photos with it, loved the build, design and utilitarian style , but through utter frustration i then traded the lot and have ALWAYS REGRETTED IT.
I'll be happy to checkout the ricoh gx review. Sadly , I recently dropped and killed a CX 5 i think it was called. Had that same great interface and switches. I'll need something like it again.
I was so amazed by the detail possible with foveon sensors, but I had the same issues you had with the sigma raw software and those greens. Really made portraits a no go. Had some fun with the infrared though, kinda wish the IR cut filter was removable in every camera.
Quick tip for those also tired of using Sigma Photo Pro: use it to convert your X3F RAW files to 8bit or 16bit TIFF and edit them in your proffered editor. Converting to 16bit takes forever but the headaches of using SPP are worth it with the Foveon cameras.
The images still need initial tuning in SPP, otherwise you're giving up on the unique options it offers, some of which do affect the aesthetical rendering in dramatic ways (by exporting directly you're basically baking only one of these in your exports and escaping it won't be possible...).
@@rebours that may be true. Personally I don't think editing in SPP has yielded better results for me. Fill light is kind of useless past ±0.2 IMO. I've never felt like the color rendering or dynamic range has been impacted dramatically either. I've been using the SD Quattro since 2018 and it was my only digital camera until 2023. I couldn't find a justifiable way to use SPP other than converting the X3F files to TIFF's. Especially since the DNG files out of the SD Quattro are garbage so those aren't worth using unless you really like blotchy colors. I am curious what you have found SPP useful for though as it is a fairly powerful editor, even if it's slower than molasses.
IF ONLY this camera would work with Lightroom or something I would have bought one immediately!
I’ve found that with these raw files, I like to convert them to a negative tiff and run them through negative lab pro. I get beautiful results that way
I was lucky enough to purchase the rare PG-41 battery grip for the SDQ-H which allows the camera to operate for half a day, on top of this, switching on the ECO mode helps to extend the battery life even further. Sigma diehard will never sell their camera because of the special colours foveon sensor offers, and now looking forward to Sigma releasing the full frame L mount foveon camera in the coming months.
Nice photos.
When editing Foveon files in Sigma Photopro, I never even attempt to get a finished photo out of Photopro. I use the basic settings and adjust the color a bit, but I always save the files as tif files and then finish the edit with my regular software creating the final jpg or png files.
Of course, the tif files are huge, but it works for me, and I enjoy editing, so I make it work.
Good tip. I'll play around with that workflow.
I second this 👆🏽 Ali from One month Two camera's has a similar workflow. She covered this in her sd quattro video which was very insightful.
One thing that I've found about the SD Quattro, is that although the color performance falls of very quickly at higher ISOs, you can often still get pretty nice results if you're willing to go monochrome. The layered sensor still often picks up the brightness changes well, and retains a lot of detail, even though the colors get desaturated or blotchy
Another thing that's worth mentioning is that you're not going to lose much, if anything, if you export to a 16-bit tiff from Sigma and do the rest of your tweaking in your preferred photo processing software before doing the final jpeg export
Love the studio lighting in this video. It's looks warm and inviting. I can't afford any Sigma cameras, they are too expensive, I have a couple of Sigma SA zoom lenses, as I do have a Sigma 35mm film slr somewhere in my collection. By the way you live in such a beautiful country.
Regards Rob (UK)
Iowa?! We're practically neighbors! You should explore the Iowa Driftless area in the northeast of the state, it's my absolute favorite.
I definitely will, I've heard a lot of about it from gravel bike riders (another hobby of mine)
@@snappiness there are seemingly endless trails all over the Driftless for photography and biking/hiking/walking. I've lived along the Mississippi for three years now and it feels like I've explored less than 1% of even this small area!
10 HR drive, lmao. Midwest life! Awesome!
Much ❤for the Sigma Quattro series (the sd and the dp versions). Honestly for macro work (flora in particular), I prefer the Sigma Quattro (I have the plain version, not the higher megapickle H-version) with Sigma SA mount glass. It must be the micro-contrast the sensor is famous for, because I swear the Quattro out-resolves my Fuji GFX 100s for macro, and the wider depth of field with APS-C really helps. Still aching and empty, waiting for the long-rumoured 61mp full frame foveon... if they ever get it up and running, I'd sell my Jeep for one!
I am following that news closely too! The last few years it seemed like maybe... now I'm not so sure, but they haven't given up yet!
@@snappiness Never give up hope! BTW, if you're sick of the Sigma software, the last firmware update they did (years ago now) added DNG to the shooting style, which allows you to skip that Sigma software (which still runs slow even on a blazing-fast tripped-out Mac Studio M2 Ultra)
What the sigma?
Only 10 hours - a true midwestern/southerner!
Haha it's true. We were last in Texas, and it was about 8 hours any direction just to leave the state. Nothing like the east coast though, where 8 hours gets you through 5+ states.
The back view of the camera reminds me of a windows media player skin from the 2000s
haha, I totally know what you're talking about! xD I used to love toothy...
Not 5 minutes ago, I saw this camera on mpb and I thought it would be cool if you made a video on it. Wish granted I guess haha.
Oh that's funny xD
Hi, in 10 hours you can drive across whole Croatia ( country in europe ), love youre chanel
as over said as it is to say, they have a natural "film-ic" look to them
The mediocre auto-focus is odd, it's spot on and quite fast in the dp0 quattro.
As a fellow SD Quattro owner (I absolutely adore the camera) I typically import the raw x3f files into the Sigma Photo Pro software and then immediately export them to tiff for editing in Lightroom. Always gets great results!
I see others mentioning the DNG mode in camera… I tried this on a trip excited about the prospect of a simpler editing workflow, but I swear the pictures had less pixel density vs the raw x3f files. Anyone else know if using DNG mode actually has a negative impact on image quality (other than going from 14 to 12 bit)?
Love the videos as always!!
Not qualified to speak on specifics, but…
Reduced bit depth equals lower pixel density-not the quantity of pixels, but the difference one pixel can have from another. TLDR pixel quality and pixel quantity aren’t really independent
Ah, good point. I guess my question is really this: can anyone confirm whether or not there is a reduction in resolution when shooting in dng straight out of camera instead of raw? Seemed to be the case for me.
what a sigma camera
I've been considering getting an SA mount 100-400 too for my sdQuattro set as I have the 1.8 twins too but the slow aperture worries me on Foveon. The lens itself i have fond memories of from my Canon DSLR days and i don't mind its parameters there.
It does limit a lot of situations to a tripod, and I don't think it's as sharp as the others but definitely good.
@@snappinessI agree. Now if only we could shrink and make affordable the 120-300 Sport.😂
Would you ever consider making a mount adapter to use Fuji G-mount medium format lenses on Fuji X mount APSC cameras?
No, please, these cameras are already expensive enough! 😂
Don't worry, I'll talk everyone out of it hopefully xD
My edc is also a GX200, it you want a filter adaptor, I uploaded one to thingiverse, as well as an L-bracket.
Cool, I'll check that out.
I liked the photos regardless of the colour caste. What is the native file format for this camera please? And does it also output jpgs?
I want to love the SDQ and SDQ H so bad. I actually like the weird ergonomics and the IR abilities are awesome. BUT no matter how hard I try I just cant find a place in my photo flow for the SDQ. If I am going to put up with slow and inaccurate AF and weird files I would rather shoot medium format any day.
Bison watching this: slow? that's a feature, not a bug
I have just about every Sigma camera released; I'm a fanboy of the quirky cameras the company puts out. That said, the best camera I've used of theirs, and still use as a side camera for work as a travelling photojournalist, is the fp L. Any honest photographer that does more than landscapes and studio work will admit that Foveon sensers are, at best, a gimmick. People cry about MFT being picky with light, but they've never tried to use a foveon camera before like I have (still do, the Quattro H in studio is still a solid body with the right glass). Funnily enough, I use MFT as my main system along with the fp L (that I almost always use in crop/aps-c mode for the reach, still more MP than my MFT gear). In perfect light they're fine, but with an overwhelming majority of work you're going to miss opportunities trying to work within the limitations.
My ideal camera is the SD Quattro body trimmed down to L-mount with a refined CMOS APS-C version of the fp L+IBIS, refined fp L+IBIS, or even just the S5.ii sensor package along with a multi-way tilt screen like the X-T3/X-T5, Sony that copied, etc. I take heavy advantage of the reach that MFT and the fp L in crop mode gives me along with the small body/lens package to get natural lifestyle portraits out in villages/rural areas in East/Southeast Asia primarily. If Sigma actuallyed released a foveon body right now, they'd basically bankrupt the company. The current market is more driven by zero compromise (that people are aware of it, it's there, most just don't actually understand outside of A or P mode with auto ISO), and foveon is the definition of many many compromises unless you're using it in controlled environments...which in itself is a compromise.
Honestly, with how huge of resolutions we have now on CMOS along with great glass to resolve said resolution, there's not really a reason for foveon to exist as a currently released sensor. In the past, you could get great detail out of them that surpassed most other options on the market that were under or mid 20s for megapixel. Now with 60-100mp+ sensors (or pixelshift/hires, even my OM-5 can put out stupidly good portraits given you limit movement, same for my K-1.ii) you can get that detail and there's so much flexibility with colors that you can't really argue for that either (personally I've always found Olympus colors out of the box as appealing or better, and I'm a Sigma fanboy). Rant aside, the Sigma foveons are all fun to mess with for personal hobby stuff, even work in controlled situations.
Dude, I think you need a channel too!
I think your last paragraph especially is a very good point. If you think about how the company Foveon got started, it was during an era where getting high resolution images out of digital cameras was still the dream. Even then the trade-offs for the supposed benefits wasn't super easy to justify. Nowadays even less.
How accurate is the color to what you saw?
At 4:00 - my main complaint about these cameras. Despite what the fans say, the colors are lousy at best.
How many cameras can you think of that have a viewfinder to the right of centre like this one?
Can you shoot DNGs on this camera? I recently picked up the sigma dp1 Quattro and set it to DNG. Then I edit the DNGs in Lightroom. Most of the pictures look a little bit greenish, but usually it works to set the whitebalance on the cooler side and add a bit magenta…
Someone just told me with a firmware update you can, so I'mma check that out...
Does sigma offer an adapter for their SLR mount to L mount ?
They do from what I understand.
Yes, it's the MOUNT CONVERTER MC-21
SIGMA SA-L. Keep in mind they also make a Canon EF to L mount adapter that's also called MC-21 so make sure you get the correct one.
Custer State Park!
That's right! What a beautiful park.
Очень красивая природа
Did you go to the Crazy Horse monument? Much better than Rushmore IMHO.
I have on previous trips!
Completely unrelated to the photography-- but thanks for saying "bison" and not "buffalo" 😅
I have only and only used cameras with a Foveon sensor for 10 years. Developing the raw of a Sigma with a Foveon sensor without going through SigmaPhotoPro, is to miss the only real advantage of these cameras with stellar image quality. Even using the alternative DNG format is useless. The only way is X3F+SigmaPhotoPro.
what in the hell is this camera? the techie in me is completely enthused, it looks like something old and new at the same time. I don't believe I've seen this before only the FP bodies that still look sexy even with all of their limitations.
now I'm really really curious.
I wish this camera actually had optical viewfinder instead, the live view is horrible specially considering how inept the autofocus is on this camera.
7:48 I guess you're learning this the hard way. The Foveon cameras are tripod cameras. There is no way around this.
I don't need another Foveon camera. I don't need another Foveon camera. I don't need another Foveon camera. I don't need another Foveon camera. I don't need another Foveon camera.
Honestly I don't get why Sigma is pursuing this still. IMHO there is absolutely nothing special in the output that would balance out the PIA of the process.
great camera but let this one go due to horrible EVF frame rate 🥲