FWIW, I love making my own Apfelwein as well. I first fell in love with it when I spent some time working in Frankfurt. What I find odd is that American Apfelwein recipes all seem to jack up the alcohol content. Traditional German Apfelwein is about 4-5% alcohol. It’s a refreshing summer drink and often further diluted with seltzer or even Sprite (which Frankfurters refer to as “sour” or “sweet” mixtures vs. “pure” Apfelwein). I tried EdWort’s Apfelwein recipe, which calls for 2 lbs. of dextrose per 5 gallons of juice, and I found the extra alcohol was very noticeable in the taste. Your recipe is way higher than even that. If you like that style, no worries (it doesn’t have to be “authentic” and you should do what you enjoy), but you may want to try a much lower alcohol recipe just to see if you like it.
I think this might go back to what is defined as an applewine in the US. According to the BJCP: C2C. Applewine The term for this category is traditional but possibly misleading: it is simply a cider with substantial added sugar to achieve higher alcohol than a standard cider. As such it comes closer to a white wine than any other style. No fruit other than apples may be used in this style. You totally could dillute it with a mixer, I've heard squirt, sprite, or even just club soda is common. My personal preference is lower ABV stuff, so I might give that a go. 2lb of dextrose / 5gallons would raise the gravity by .46 * 2/ 5 gallons = .0184. This would increase the ABV by 2.4% - hypothetically. I think that would put it into the wine category, but kinda on the border.
@@CiderWithKevin I just came back from a trip to Germany and picked up a bottle of Possman's (the classic brand for Apfelwein). I was wrong: it is 6% alcohol. Cheers!
I've been using Red Star Pasteur Blanc champagne yeast and results have been good, but too much added sugar puts too much alcohol forward and the taste isn't as nice as when you back off a bit on the sugar. Tend to prefer the result at around 1/2 pound (1 cup) per gallon of 5% alcohol potential raw juice. Trying Lalvin EC-1118 next.
Decaliter, maybe? I did a similar test. Safcider (no letters or numbers), Safale S04, and Belle Saison. Belle Saison was the winner by far. Safcider was just bad, despite the name. I ended up mulling it with honey and spices, and then it was good. I like cote des blanc as a wine yeast, but I have not tried it as a cider yeast. Perhaps I will give it a shot.
It was hectoliters! Major brain fart! There are so many yeast, which makes this fun to experiment with! I have heard good things about Saison yeasts in general, but haven't pulled the trigger on one yet to test. The AC-4 Safcider is really good imo. I haven't heard good things about the rest of the lineup though. I've done s04 in the past, and I would liken AC-4 to being S-04 that retains more apple character and color. Similar flocculation and yeast cake density, similar fermentation temp range, similar time to clear. Honestly, that's exactly what I did with the premiere blanc wine. Mulled it with cinnamon, cloves, and sugar and served it at my holiday party!
@@CiderWithKevin Hey, thanks for the reply. I love experimental videos like this. I went through a stage where I made cider after cider, trying different things like adding raisins or ginger. It was great fun.
Interesting on the malic acid inclusion. I thought that apple juice was high in malic acid. I made a batch last year and it spent a couple months in malolactic fermentation. I used S04 ale yeast.
@@CiderWithKevin If you want to experiment more, use concentrated frozen apple juice to raise the SG. Add it to the juice without diluting it. I do that now, even with concord grape juice. Its adds more concentrated flavor. Last time I did it 2 cans of frozen concentrate raised a gallon of apple juice to 1.070. I used the cotes des blanc on that batch and it was tangy. Good though. Remove enough juice to accommodate the concentrate.
@JAT002 definitely something I'll experiment with in the future. For the BJCP C2C style is not 100% clear if you can or you cannot add Concentrates, but I'm of the opinion that would make a more apple forward product. I like using MoreBeer.com 's UK concentrate for blending and this apple wine recipe would definitely be improved by that instead of the white sugar, without a doubt.
@@CiderWithKevin There is a channel I watch a lot, City Steading Brews. On one of their videos they concentrated apple juice by boiling it down. I left a comment that I use the grocery store frozen concentrate and their response was they wanted the flavor from cooking the juice. A little caramelization of the sugar from the heat. Too much effort for me. I'll just use the concentrate.
Did you take into account the nitrogen requirement for each yeast? Unless they had the same requirements, using too much or too little nutrition can hinder/stress the yeast and not allow each one to bring out their best. Adding the same nutrition measurement for each could change the results.
Good question, but to answer you shortly, no. The point of this test was a bench trail with a single recipe, not a scientific analysis. At a homebrew scale, we can make reasonable assumptions about YAN, but cannot know with certainty what the actual content is. Additionally, a lot of year manufacturers just give vague descriptors of yeast nutrition requirements, high, medium, or low for the Saf yeasts. These Redstar yeasts don't even have the nutrition requirements listed on their data sheets! Not the most helpful. Adjusting for YAN changes the recipe and then kind of defeats the point of testing the same recipe across yeasts. What I can say, however, is the flavor and aroma differences were not due to yeast stress. There was nothing "off" about the premiere blanc, it just lacked all cider character. If you've done a similar test with controlling YAN, I'm curious to know the results!
Thanks for this interesting video. Does fermentation of dates, or fermentation of any other fruit in general, produce harmful methanol alcohol?? Which fermentation-only process without distillation is safe and does not contain methanol?
That is primarily a concern if you're distilling. Methanol production is miniscule compared to ethanol, and ethanol actually neutralizes methanol in homebrewing concentrations: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.376 This is a non-issue if you're not making spirits.
@@CiderWithKevin - Completely correct. I’ve touched base with several fermentation specialists responsible for safety and testing of commercial alcoholic beverages on this. They’re scientists connected to the universities of Ghent, Antwerp and Leuven (Louvain) in Belgium. They apply the safety norms of the EU and those are amongst the strictest worldwide. Just for kicks, they’ve tested several of my meads, fruit wines and ciders. All remained well below safety limits as stipulated by the EU, even when I’d applied fermentation on the fruit skins and seeds with no addition of water and a high ABV up to 18.8% alcohol) with the addition of pectic enzyme. It would take the ingestion of vast quantities in one sitting to induce even mild methanol poisoning. You’d be drunk off your face before that.
FWIW, I love making my own Apfelwein as well. I first fell in love with it when I spent some time working in Frankfurt. What I find odd is that American Apfelwein recipes all seem to jack up the alcohol content. Traditional German Apfelwein is about 4-5% alcohol. It’s a refreshing summer drink and often further diluted with seltzer or even Sprite (which Frankfurters refer to as “sour” or “sweet” mixtures vs. “pure” Apfelwein).
I tried EdWort’s Apfelwein recipe, which calls for 2 lbs. of dextrose per 5 gallons of juice, and I found the extra alcohol was very noticeable in the taste. Your recipe is way higher than even that. If you like that style, no worries (it doesn’t have to be “authentic” and you should do what you enjoy), but you may want to try a much lower alcohol recipe just to see if you like it.
I think this might go back to what is defined as an applewine in the US. According to the BJCP:
C2C. Applewine
The term for this category is traditional but possibly misleading: it is simply a cider with substantial added sugar to achieve higher alcohol than a standard cider. As such it comes closer to a white wine than any other style. No fruit other than apples may be used in this style.
You totally could dillute it with a mixer, I've heard squirt, sprite, or even just club soda is common. My personal preference is lower ABV stuff, so I might give that a go. 2lb of dextrose / 5gallons would raise the gravity by .46 * 2/ 5 gallons = .0184. This would increase the ABV by 2.4% - hypothetically. I think that would put it into the wine category, but kinda on the border.
@@CiderWithKevin I just came back from a trip to Germany and picked up a bottle of Possman's (the classic brand for Apfelwein). I was wrong: it is 6% alcohol. Cheers!
Nice test. Like your content I'm sure you will have a lot more subscribers once the algorithm decides to be your friend lol.
Thanks. I'm focusing on useful content first and foremost. As long as people get value out of my videos then I'm happy with posting them!
I've been using Red Star Pasteur Blanc champagne yeast and results have been good, but too much added sugar puts too much alcohol forward and the taste isn't as nice as when you back off a bit on the sugar. Tend to prefer the result at around 1/2 pound (1 cup) per gallon of 5% alcohol potential raw juice. Trying Lalvin EC-1118 next.
Interesting! There are hundreds of yeasts out there and I'd love to try them all.
Decaliter, maybe?
I did a similar test. Safcider (no letters or numbers), Safale S04, and Belle Saison. Belle Saison was the winner by far. Safcider was just bad, despite the name. I ended up mulling it with honey and spices, and then it was good.
I like cote des blanc as a wine yeast, but I have not tried it as a cider yeast. Perhaps I will give it a shot.
It was hectoliters! Major brain fart!
There are so many yeast, which makes this fun to experiment with! I have heard good things about Saison yeasts in general, but haven't pulled the trigger on one yet to test.
The AC-4 Safcider is really good imo. I haven't heard good things about the rest of the lineup though.
I've done s04 in the past, and I would liken AC-4 to being S-04 that retains more apple character and color. Similar flocculation and yeast cake density, similar fermentation temp range, similar time to clear.
Honestly, that's exactly what I did with the premiere blanc wine. Mulled it with cinnamon, cloves, and sugar and served it at my holiday party!
@@CiderWithKevin Hey, thanks for the reply. I love experimental videos like this. I went through a stage where I made cider after cider, trying different things like adding raisins or ginger. It was great fun.
Interesting on the malic acid inclusion. I thought that apple juice was high in malic acid. I made a batch last year and it spent a couple months in malolactic fermentation. I used S04 ale yeast.
For my pallet, it needs a touch more brightness to not taste flabby, but it would be interesting to do a TA test on this juice and see what we get.
@@CiderWithKevin If you want to experiment more, use concentrated frozen apple juice to raise the SG. Add it to the juice without diluting it. I do that now, even with concord grape juice. Its adds more concentrated flavor. Last time I did it 2 cans of frozen concentrate raised a gallon of apple juice to 1.070. I used the cotes des blanc on that batch and it was tangy. Good though. Remove enough juice to accommodate the concentrate.
@JAT002 definitely something I'll experiment with in the future. For the BJCP C2C style is not 100% clear if you can or you cannot add Concentrates, but I'm of the opinion that would make a more apple forward product. I like using MoreBeer.com 's UK concentrate for blending and this apple wine recipe would definitely be improved by that instead of the white sugar, without a doubt.
@@CiderWithKevin There is a channel I watch a lot, City Steading Brews. On one of their videos they concentrated apple juice by boiling it down. I left a comment that I use the grocery store frozen concentrate and their response was they wanted the flavor from cooking the juice. A little caramelization of the sugar from the heat. Too much effort for me. I'll just use the concentrate.
Did you take into account the nitrogen requirement for each yeast?
Unless they had the same requirements, using too much or too little nutrition can hinder/stress the yeast and not allow each one to bring out their best.
Adding the same nutrition measurement for each could change the results.
Good question, but to answer you shortly, no. The point of this test was a bench trail with a single recipe, not a scientific analysis. At a homebrew scale, we can make reasonable assumptions about YAN, but cannot know with certainty what the actual content is. Additionally, a lot of year manufacturers just give vague descriptors of yeast nutrition requirements, high, medium, or low for the Saf yeasts. These Redstar yeasts don't even have the nutrition requirements listed on their data sheets! Not the most helpful.
Adjusting for YAN changes the recipe and then kind of defeats the point of testing the same recipe across yeasts. What I can say, however, is the flavor and aroma differences were not due to yeast stress. There was nothing "off" about the premiere blanc, it just lacked all cider character.
If you've done a similar test with controlling YAN, I'm curious to know the results!
09:26 kitty!
His name is Maximus. He's a butt and likes to interfere when I'm recording, so I give him a box to sit in when he's onery.
??? What is the nutrient you use and how much do you use ??? - - also... where do you buy it?
Fermaid-O. Usually 1g/gal for cider, 1.5g/gal for anything over 1.080sg. You can get it from Morebeer, northern brewer, or most homebrew shops.
@@CiderWithKevin Thank you so much. Your vids are very helpful 😁
@@shellyl4902 of course, happy to help :)
Thanks for this interesting video. Does fermentation of dates, or fermentation of any other fruit in general, produce harmful methanol alcohol?? Which fermentation-only process without distillation is safe and does not contain methanol?
That is primarily a concern if you're distilling. Methanol production is miniscule compared to ethanol, and ethanol actually neutralizes methanol in homebrewing concentrations: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.376
This is a non-issue if you're not making spirits.
@@CiderWithKevin - Completely correct. I’ve touched base with several fermentation specialists responsible for safety and testing of commercial alcoholic beverages on this. They’re scientists connected to the universities of Ghent, Antwerp and Leuven (Louvain) in Belgium. They apply the safety norms of the EU and those are amongst the strictest worldwide. Just for kicks, they’ve tested several of my meads, fruit wines and ciders. All remained well below safety limits as stipulated by the EU, even when I’d applied fermentation on the fruit skins and seeds with no addition of water and a high ABV up to 18.8% alcohol) with the addition of pectic enzyme.
It would take the ingestion of vast quantities in one sitting to induce even mild methanol poisoning. You’d be drunk off your face before that.
Hmm, tree identical bottles, poor three identical glasses in the bottles are no longer identical in volume??? Strange
I'm not sure what you mean here. It's pretty hard to get identical fill levels in all wine bottles to begin with.
the C will not be pronounced in the word " Blanc"
You can't stop me, Blanco is white in Spanish and blanc is just missing the o