Dave, I am going to ask a few things before I give comment : - did you ever hear the Lucerne Festival Orchestra live? - did you ever hear a concert of Abbado Live in Europe? -- did you ever hear a Live Concert with Abbado?
1. Not relevant. I care about how the orchestra sounds on recordings where the evidence for my reservations is irrefutable. 2. Same answer. Who cares? I am discussing recordings. 3. Many times, but again, so what? We are discussing recordings. Please be guided accordingly.
Based on similar criteria, I think the Sony Bernstein Remastered box richly qualifies in this category. It gives you a great chance to cover this box -what a mess that is😢
I always loved Abbado and went to many of his concerts since the early ‘70. I found his Brahms, Schubert, Mendelshonn, Schubert, some Bruckner, Mahler, Prokofiev, Debussy and Ravel beautiful. Even is early Tchaikovsky was exciting. All in all great stuff, coupled unfortunately with lousy classic repertoire
@@DavesClassicalGuide Maybe though a video on how performance styles have changed, especially orchestral recordings, and perhaps highlights on recordings from the 21st century that because of these shifts present the works better than previous recordings from the '60s? E.g. smaller and more virtuosic orchestras creating a more transparent sound which presents early Haydn symphonies to better advantage? (I have no idea if that's actually correct). And maybe also (this is a completely different idea) how better recording technology has allowed for works to be better appreciated now than before?
I still think Abbado is great, but agree with you on the Bruckner. Abbado plays lyrically, in the Italian operatic style, and often this fits well with the Mahler symphonies, which are operatic in a sense and clearly in part inspired by Italian and German opera. You either like his lyricism or you don't, and if you want hard-edged aggressive playing he's not for you, even if he could sound red-blooded and maniacal when he wanted to.
To say "you either like it or you don't" is to ignore that fact that some music benefits from that approach and some does not. Often as not, it's misapplied, and that is the point.
Great video! Abbado was indeed quite hit and miss. I adore his Mendelssohn cycle, it is definitely one of the references, and appreciate his Brahms more then I like it. As you pointed out there are some interesting Mahler performances he did with Berlin, witch are really quite enjoyable from time to time. However the rest of the box is really unimpressive unfortunately. By the way, I was rewatching some of your old Shostakovich videos, and heard that you were planning on covering the Alto mixed conductors cycle in a video, the one with the original Kondrashin 13 and Mravinsky's 8, 10 and 12. Are you still considering doing it? I am really intrested in your thoughts on the individual performances they have selected for the set, because I really am not sure what to think about it as a complete cycle - the historical performances, that I mentioned above, are in my opinion very smartly chosen, but the Maxim Shostakovich recordings of 5 and 10 I find to be quite boring. They also give us the Rostropovich London version of 11, witch is to my ears inferior to his Washington one. Anyway I would really appreciate if you make a video about the box, as you said you were planning to. From what I saw in your previous video, your opinion is largely positive, but I would be interested in your take on the individual performances in the set. Greetings from Bulgaria and thanks for the great videos!
I think you've summed it up quite well, and I agree with your observations on that Alto cycle. It was because of the dull stuff that I couldn't really get motivated to talk about it further, but thank you for brining it up.
Thank you very much for the reply! Glad we agree on these performances! If you are not going to do a video on the box, can you please write what you think about the K. Ivanov recording of the 7th and Jurowski's 14th, are they any good? These are the only performances in the cycle, that I am not familiar with, and would really appreciate reading your opinion and insights. I wish they would have put in the Mravinsky 7th too, even though the recording quality isn't great, it would have been a nice supplement, but I have never even heard of Ivanov, so I would gladly give his performance a chance. My feelings for the Jurowski 14 are similar, although I at least know who he is through his other performances, like his reference 6th in the same set, so I suspect it would at least be decent.
Egad. All of these rehash boxes, packaging the same old stuff in variable iterations, surely are just efforts by whoever owns the rights to squeeze out a bit more revenue. You would know better than I if they actually make money on them. Evidently they do or we wouldn't see them so frequently.
Sorry Dave for being off topic, it has recently come out the Naxos project on Schubert’s complete lieder. Do you think you will be doing a review about it?
I am sure that DG or DECCA all "Symphony Editions" are not worth collecting! It's for the conductor's fan club to pay as Kickstarter for a complete edition later on. P.S. In the same manner, I would include Boulez's 20th century as well
Off topic to this video, but I just heard Delalande's Concert de Trompettes in a version conducted by Hugo Reyne. Really interesting with the percussion, IMO. Maybe an idea for a future video: your favourite percussive works.
I have a great fondness for his Mahler with Chicago. They truly are excellent performances.
Dave, I am going to ask a few things before I give comment : - did you ever hear the Lucerne Festival Orchestra live? - did you ever hear a concert of Abbado Live in Europe? -- did you ever hear a Live Concert with Abbado?
1. Not relevant. I care about how the orchestra sounds on recordings where the evidence for my reservations is irrefutable. 2. Same answer. Who cares? I am discussing recordings. 3. Many times, but again, so what? We are discussing recordings. Please be guided accordingly.
Can’t complain, I picked this up new for £12 delivered. Loss leader, at that price there’s gotta be some good in there 😅
Neither can I - I got a digital version very cheaply (I can’t remember how much)
Based on similar criteria, I think the Sony Bernstein Remastered box richly qualifies in this category. It gives you a great chance to cover this box -what a mess that is😢
Already done at ClassicsToday.com.
I always loved Abbado and went to many of his concerts since the early ‘70. I found his Brahms, Schubert, Mendelshonn, Schubert, some Bruckner, Mahler, Prokofiev, Debussy and Ravel beautiful. Even is early Tchaikovsky was exciting. All in all great stuff, coupled unfortunately with lousy classic repertoire
Any chance you could do a video on the best recording of each decade of the 21st century? And the best HD recordings?
Sorry, no way!
Why?
@@DavesClassicalGuide
@@DavesClassicalGuide Maybe though a video on how performance styles have changed, especially orchestral recordings, and perhaps highlights on recordings from the 21st century that because of these shifts present the works better than previous recordings from the '60s? E.g. smaller and more virtuosic orchestras creating a more transparent sound which presents early Haydn symphonies to better advantage? (I have no idea if that's actually correct). And maybe also (this is a completely different idea) how better recording technology has allowed for works to be better appreciated now than before?
Because I'm not interested in HD technology, and because the "best" recording of each decade strikes me a meaningless.
I still think Abbado is great, but agree with you on the Bruckner. Abbado plays lyrically, in the Italian operatic style, and often this fits well with the Mahler symphonies, which are operatic in a sense and clearly in part inspired by Italian and German opera. You either like his lyricism or you don't, and if you want hard-edged aggressive playing he's not for you, even if he could sound red-blooded and maniacal when he wanted to.
To say "you either like it or you don't" is to ignore that fact that some music benefits from that approach and some does not. Often as not, it's misapplied, and that is the point.
Great video! Abbado was indeed quite hit and miss. I adore his Mendelssohn cycle, it is definitely one of the references, and appreciate his Brahms more then I like it. As you pointed out there are some interesting Mahler performances he did with Berlin, witch are really quite enjoyable from time to time. However the rest of the box is really unimpressive unfortunately.
By the way, I was rewatching some of your old Shostakovich videos, and heard that you were planning on covering the Alto mixed conductors cycle in a video, the one with the original Kondrashin 13 and Mravinsky's 8, 10 and 12. Are you still considering doing it? I am really intrested in your thoughts on the individual performances they have selected for the set, because I really am not sure what to think about it as a complete cycle - the historical performances, that I mentioned above, are in my opinion very smartly chosen, but the Maxim Shostakovich recordings of 5 and 10 I find to be quite boring. They also give us the Rostropovich London version of 11, witch is to my ears inferior to his Washington one.
Anyway I would really appreciate if you make a video about the box, as you said you were planning to. From what I saw in your previous video, your opinion is largely positive, but I would be interested in your take on the individual performances in the set.
Greetings from Bulgaria and thanks for the great videos!
I think you've summed it up quite well, and I agree with your observations on that Alto cycle. It was because of the dull stuff that I couldn't really get motivated to talk about it further, but thank you for brining it up.
Thank you very much for the reply! Glad we agree on these performances! If you are not going to do a video on the box, can you please write what you think about the K. Ivanov recording of the 7th and Jurowski's 14th, are they any good? These are the only performances in the cycle, that I am not familiar with, and would really appreciate reading your opinion and insights. I wish they would have put in the Mravinsky 7th too, even though the recording quality isn't great, it would have been a nice supplement, but I have never even heard of Ivanov, so I would gladly give his performance a chance. My feelings for the Jurowski 14 are similar, although I at least know who he is through his other performances, like his reference 6th in the same set, so I suspect it would at least be decent.
Egad. All of these rehash boxes, packaging the same old stuff in variable iterations, surely are just efforts by whoever owns the rights to squeeze out a bit more revenue. You would know better than I if they actually make money on them. Evidently they do or we wouldn't see them so frequently.
YOU sir, are.... An absolute delight to watch every day.
Sorry Dave for being off topic, it has recently come out the Naxos project on Schubert’s complete lieder. Do you think you will be doing a review about it?
It's been available for years. I have no plans to discuss it at this time.
I am sure that DG or DECCA all "Symphony Editions" are not worth collecting! It's for the conductor's fan club to pay as Kickstarter for a complete edition later on. P.S. In the same manner, I would include Boulez's 20th century as well
Afraid I did not like Abbado in anything, really. I do have him in one CD and a few vinyls.
Off topic to this video, but I just heard Delalande's Concert de Trompettes in a version conducted by Hugo Reyne. Really interesting with the percussion, IMO. Maybe an idea for a future video: your favourite percussive works.
A fabulous, incisive critique of this diverse collection, Dave.
The Schubert Great C has all repeats.
Sadly.
Among collectors on social media, Abbado seems to have a cult following. I think DG’s superpower is making idols out of people who are just OK.
DG treated him like a KING for decades. Not saying he didn't do good stuff: his Chicago Mahler 6 is exceptional.
Way too much Abbado stuff.
Who are running these record labels nowadays