A JEWISH FATHER and SON talk about their journey from HATE to LOVE of POLAND
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2024
- A JEWISH FATHER and SON talk about their journey from HATE to LOVE of POLAND
/ michaelrubenfeld
In this video, Michael Rubenfeld talks to his father, Cary Rubenfeld, about why Jews have such a negative relationship to Poland, and they explore Cary's own journey from initially hating Poland, and then ultimately learning to love and even defend it as a result of starting to go there and learning more about history.
My name is Michael Rubenfeld, and I am a Canadian Polish Jewish Theatre Maker who moved from Canada and is now living in Krakow, Poland. On this channel I discuss my experience and my perspectives on Poland through a Jewish lens.
#jewinpoland #polishjews #poland #polska #kochampolskę #winnipeg #canada #jewincanada #Pole #jewinpoland #jews #canadian #expatjews #foreignerinpoland #jewishidentity #jewishculture #jewishlife #holocaust #canadianjews #polishjews #żydzi #żydżiwpolsce #polacy
Check Out My Other Videos:
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The thing that strikes me the most in this discussion is the question of "why Polish people didn't do more". I am polish myself and I find this attitude painful and very demanding. My grandfather and his family lived in Poland which now is Ukraine - they have experienced pogroms of Ukrainians on polish nation which resulted in very brutal murder of over 100 k poles. My grandfather (age 5 at that time) , his siblings and mother had to escape and hide in the forests with no food and constant threat of being killed (again they were polish). They suffered hunger and poverty lost their house and belongings. Seen people being murdered and tortured in very brutal ways. And now someone comes and say - AND WHY DIDNT YOU SAVE JEWS!?
This is horrible ignorant attitude that polish people putting up with for years.
The perception needs to be changed here - whoever saved Jews was a hero to the world and whoever didn't was problaby trying to be a hero to their own family. None had that obligation back then and none has a right to judge it now
So true... My grandfather survived Ukrainian Nazis in 1943 in Wolyn. Majority of people he knew got tortured in most horrifying ways possible and killed. Polish people have been traumatized beyond comprehension during WW II area and later in following years under Soviet communist regime. I think the biggest problem is the history of Wolyn, Katyn was forbidden for decades. Many people don't know about this.
@@avamarie7191im glad Smarzowski made a movie about this terrible period in our history.
Po to, abyś zawsze pozostała na klęczkach i w poczuciu winy.
It is because of deep pain and loss. People in pain will sometimes blame anyone including themselves for their loss. It is hard to imagine for people who grew up in freedom, what it is like to live under something as brutal as the Nazi occupation. How are you feeling about Ukrainians? Have you forgiven them for what they fathers did you your family? They did it to mine as well.
@@edytatehrani3934 Israelis do not selfreflect. I work with them and I know many - when we would talk and conversation was getting difficult they would start to mention "polish nazi" or some calling me a polish nazi. Which means that putting polish on the same level of Nazi is fully acceptable in the country and none intend to do anything about this. So things would change? People my age have not experienced holocaust - they could be the one to make the change but they prefer to just repeat propaganda. I in a way forgived Ukrainians - first of all I know that those ones I m meeting are not the ones responsible for genocide. Secondly I learned the history - I understand motivation of these people back then but I don't justify the actions
This interview will do more good for our Polish-Jewish relations that the Israeli ambasador in Poland ever will.
It will do absolutely nothing. Poles were never the problem.
How many Jewish will risk they family live to save Pols, if will be the other way?
if it were
Good question. When bolshevicks came for Poles , Jews took their side...So...
Very important and interesting conversation. I am Polish. I grew up on Poland and living in Canada for 27 years. I never could understand why so many Jews are so negative of Poland, Poles, past and present. Living in Poland I had no idea there are Jews who actually hate Poland. When I found out about it , I was completely confused and shocked.
.Even I was born several decades after WWii, I grew up in shadow of the war, shadow of concentration camps , Warsaw ghetto , ghetto uprising and Holocaust. Since I can remember I was thought about German Nazis atrocities committed not only against Poles but especially Jewish Poles. Every city, town or even village has some memorial , monument rised to remember victims of this horrible time, Polish citizens, either non Jews or Jews. During my childhood I have learn so much about Polish Jews and Holocaust that as a 12 year old I asked my mom to take me to Auschwit to pay respect to all victims, those who have died and those who survived. The memory of Jews and Poles who were murdered there was so alive and strong. I always knew Jews have been living in Poland for almost 1000 years. They were our brothers, neighbors, our countrymen, integral part of our nation. They were part of our society. They were Poles just like us . I never knew anyone in Poland who would see our different religious beliefs as an issue. Our great Polish Pope John Paul II called Jews our older brothers in faith. This is how I always looked at the Jews. Polish Jews were always and are Polish just like the rest of us. From religious point of view , they are our older brothers in faith.
I grew up with Jewish neighbors, friends , went to school with Jewish kids. It was normal. No one was treating them in any way different then others.
So, when after coming to Canada I met Canadian Jews and find out about their opinion about Poland I was in total shock. I didn't understand at all why Polsnd and Poles are accused of antisemitism. I didn't understand why Poland was accused of persecuting Jews. I couldn't understand where that narrative was coming from. Comparing Poles to German Nazis is perheps the worst insult to Polish person.
We were outraged hearing on TV words " Polish concentration camps". There was not Polish concentration camps! Those camps were in Polish territory occupied by German Nazis created by them. There was officially no Poland at that time .
So, that narrative is elso false, unjust and hurtful.
Anyway, your father helped me a litlle bit better to understand why this is happening . Thank you both for speaking about it and waiting for more.
By the way, we have something in common with your dad. Since I can remember I don't like German language, German anything...
The stories I heard from my grandparents, great grandparents, neighbors, educators , visit in Auschwitz traumatized me for life. It's not like I have aversion to all Germans or after war generations of Germans or blame all Germans for crimes of their fathers but ...everytime I meet German person I can't help but think about their parents, grandparents, great grandparents..I always wonder who were they during WWII...
Thank you.
I'll tell you something, but don't share it too much. If anyone in Poland survived and still accuses Poles, you should ask how they survived? As a communist with the Soviets, and then worked in the security service, murdering Polish soldiers? As a capo and he managed to evacuate with the Germans? A policeman from the ghetto? There was no way to survive without the help of Poles. The history of the war in the West was written by those above. They never assumed that the Iron Curtain would fall and people like you (or me) would return to the "cursed" land, where the bones of our ancestors still lie (hence the land would deserve respect).
Napisałem bardzo chłodny komentarz względem Żydów współczesnych ich zbrodniczej działalności w Palestynie.Nie mogę zrozumieć jak naród poddany eksterminacji kiedyś może eksterminować naród Palestyny. Palestyńczykom odebrali ziemię teraz zabijają ich w obliczu Jehowy. Nie skończy się to dla nich dobrze.opowiadają o tym zapisy w Piśmie Świętym. . Przeżyje tylko garstka mała ilość Żydów którzy się nawrócą i uznają Jezusa . Jehowa jest wierny obietnicom które złożył Abrahamowi więc część Izraela zostanie zachowana. Pozdrawiam serdecznie z Polski.
Well said.❤
Thank you for kind words.
Dokładnie tak jest. W oczach Polaków Żydzi sami sobie zapracowali na taką opinię jaką mają o nich Polacy, a wiesz, że ta opinia nie jest dobra ale Polacy nie krzyczą o tym co jest prawdą, a co nie jest na cały świat tylko znoszą obelgi w milczeniu bo tego jest zbyt dużo.
@@worldcitizen181 Poles are too humble and idiots always consider it a weakness. Polish also means polished, smooth (in manners), noble. Whoever sees the Germans as a nation that bought itself out of extermination with money is the son of Beelzebub.
Many Poles helped Jewish people during the German occupation even though the punishment was death of the whole family. Also Poland had probably the highest Jewish population before WWII as they did not prosecute them for their religious believes. Im glad that your Dad was able to visit Poland.
Poland had largest Jewish population.
My mom (Polish catholic) at age 14 was sent to force labour in Germany, never talked about it. My best friend's great-grandmother was hiding a Jewish neighbor, once found out, both were executed by Germans; the rest of the family escaped; Unfortunately, most Poles have similar family stories. Gret respect for your father, such an intelligent well-spoken open-minded man.
I was born and raised in the USA, second generation Polish-American. I knew nothing of the Polish language and culture but set about studying on my own. I am not living permanently in Poland and very happy here because of the kindness of the people. One might not notice it right away but when one experiences it, it all makes perfect sense why Jews from different periods settled in Poland. The German occupation of WWII had as its goal the extermination of Jews but also the enslavement of Poles and other Slavs (the word from which "slave" comes). The extermination of many Poles also was a consequence of this fascist vision. I had relative with tattooed numbers in their arms from the camps. They are gone now, but their memory and all those who died during that time are forever held in my heart.
Concentration camps were previously build for Polish people, not only Jews. 3mnl non-Jewish people parished on those camps.
A balanced, well-written comment. Thank you. Anyone who is not a native-English speaker might misunderstand.
@ajarnwordsmith628 I understand his comment. I just wanted to point out that first concentration and work camps were destinated first for Poles . That's all.
It is very unfair to say that Poles were a hanchman for Germans. This is not the truth.
You need to work on your English
@@jezalb2710 Komora czeka 😂
@@RealFishGames gdzie?
Its insulting to Polish people who saved a lot of Jews,saying these lies!!!
If Poland was henchman for Germans, then why 12 million Polish people were murdered. People have no clue to what truly happend.
The terror during the war was so huge that "doing nothing" could be an act of courage. To not notice that your neighbor shares bread with somebody you've never seen - in general hunger and poverty, where food was rationed. To pretend that you just don't see strange behaviors, noises in your neighbors basement, whatever of the sort - though it could be counted as helping the Jews, and the penalty was execution of such a person with their whole family, including children.
I can imagine that such horrible times can make some people heroes and some other criminals😢 In many cases, the worse part of human soul prevailed.
And I'm speaking about the situation of the Polish people, which was scary, too. My family suffered a lot and this trauma lives in me since my childhood, transferred to me by my parents and grandparents. Such memories live long.
Blue Police???!
Blue Police???
The Blue Policeman who stationed in my grandfather’s house did “not see” Jewish family that my grandfather was hiding in a seller 10 meters behind the house.
“Did not see” the food delivered every day.
And did not see or smell the bread being baked to feed everyone.
For you to know: all the wheat was supposed be turned to Germans. Bread was supposed to be purchased in the stores ( but you had no money for that).
For baking your own bread the penalty was death.
Baking bread was not forbidden
@@jezalb2710 Too bad my grandfather was not aware of that. It would had made his life so much easier…
Too bad the entire village did not know about that order either.
I still remember my grandma repeating it on several occasions:
“The Blue Policeman that Germans installed in our farm house, it was a good family. They brought them from Silesia. He Spoke fluent German and Silesian dialect of Polish.
When it was his day for duty, his wife would mention that to my grandma.
My grandma would run to the neighbors to let them know.
Soon after, a smell of baking bread would engulf the village.
Everyone would smell it except the policeman…”
Too bad the farmers did not know that that order announced in their village was just a German joke.
@@JDrwal2 he was a gobshite ,your grandfather
@@JDrwal2 your bad
@@JDrwal2there is no record/information that baking bread was forbidden in occupied Poland.
How many Jews from Israel try to protect neighbours- palestinias woman children and man these days? How many people risk their live to Save as many people as is possible ?
I'm amazed that you asked you're father same questions that real Pole would ask. That shows how much you do understand polish perspective. Thank you.
Oh my goodness, I feel like I've returned to being a kid again. I am Polish (and very proud), born in Germany and raised in Canada. My name in Polish is Edziu - so what did the kids call me growing up? I was referred to as "A Jew". I remember my first day at my Catholic High School - a couple of guys came up and asked what are you doing here? I responded, what do you mean? They said, well you're "A Jew". It was so funny. My parents closest friends were Jewish and I remember from a very early age listening to the stories in the kitchen - the happiest time of my life. I encountered anti Polish sentiment in Toronto and even went to Synagogues and met with Rabbis to discuss. I have endless stories and feel that Jewishness was intertwined in my upbringing. Keep this dialogue going - as knowledge and awareness will save us from darkness and ill guided behavior and comments.
Perfect interview. I hope that in this way more Jews will open their eyes wider and they will start to learn that Poland/Polish people do not hate Jews. We know, I know - in every nation, there are different people and you can't blame/put them all into the same basket. Maybe it is time for your father to go to Poland and forgive and forget. Poland is not responsible for what the Germans did on Polish ground.
True, but there are a few dark pages in history that we wrote by ourselves, and we must come to terms with it. As much as I hate the collective "we."
@@Malgosia44 You say - there are a few dark pages in history that we wrote by ourselves, and we must come to terms with it. What do you mean? Clarify it, please.
Even here there is much more to” the story”. Already back then there was a plan to destroy Europe and delete Europeans (if not there were so many young Germans killed there would not be Multikulti. How otherwise they would justify bringing nonwhites to Europe) " How many Poles know that Nazi "SS" trained the Jewish settlers before they left Europe for Palestine and also in Palestine?? Unfortunately, their Zionist brothers are responsible for their demise. Who is behind the events which started in 2020 and NWO?? Who are the people who are behind the Bolshevik Revolution, genocide on Ukrainians then and know?? Have you seen the video from a Jewish conference in Berlin? They have been planning a genocide on Poles as well, reduce the Polish Slavic population to 15M, the rest of our land to populate with non-Christians and non-Whites. Soon the graves of our ancestors will be destroyed, and the history of our nation forbidden. Taking about our nation, history., will be considered as a hate speech towards African, Asians, etc. The Jewish/ Israeli propaganda against Poles started over 30 years. They hate us so much, but they have been taking over Poland again. Jews have been kicked out from every country, always for conspiring against the nation who welcomed them. Have they taught us at school that Jews used to sell us Poles as slaves and ship to Ottoman Empire?? My father was from Subcarpathian Voivodeship, as a child he had no pleasant memories of Jews and how they treated us Polish, even children- as a goy garbage. Yet my grandfather's family saved a Jewish child and after the end of World War II the child was returned to relatives in Israel. Very sad for lost lives during World War II but across the World they teach young people of only Jewish loss, no one talks about millions of Slavic who were murdered and experimented on. So, watch out because now they are losing their land Palestine and Polish people will be new Palestinians- mark my words.
@@inkawsmith2327 mozesz sobie sama dopowiedziec. Tych historii bylo wiele po obu stronach jak jedwabne czy bezpieka.
@@Malgosia44 I would normally agree. In this case, I would caution from mea culpas. There is an agenda, political agenda behind this constant victim-hood and gaslighting from the Israeli side. I am not dismissing the trauma. However, there are political forces that are using this trauma, and the trauma is on all sides. Unfortunately, the trauma that say Poles suffered is not even talked about in the West. They were just "collaborators" and there were "Polish concentration camps". Those are no mistakes. At this point instead of whining, moralizing, and gaslighting, they need to take accountability and be held accountable for their activities in Gaza and the West Bank. I don't mean these two individuals, who are obviously not part of it, I mean Israel and Israeli society as a whole. When it becomes acceptable to block food aid from starving civilians and have picnics to watch the bombing, there is clearly something amiss in that society.
Also something important to mention is that due to the fact that Poland was later essentially occupied by the Soviet Union there was an agreement among the Allies to sit silent about any Polish accomplishments or even to just talk about Poland to not anger Stalin.
You would be surprised how little the "Western" people know what Polish people did or did not during WW2. For example if you count all the Polish troops that fought during the Allied invasion of Europe (West and East front) you would realize that Poland had one of the biggest standing armies among the Allies (obviously split between different different countries GB, USSR, USA). Ask any Westerner, about Polish troops and all you will hear about is 1939. Hell, I would even say that the vast majority of people didnt know that Poland had the biggest resistance movement among the occupied nations.
I might be wrong, but the fact that Polish people never had the chance to defend themselves from false narratives in the post-war period might be one of the reasons why the Jews are so anti-Polish. There simply was no opportunity for pushback.
Your father should ask himself one, but very important question: how would he do himself, then under Nazi occupation. To give you some hint - if you've survived war, statistically speaking 1/3 of people you knowe have perished somewhere. So imagine experiencing it day by day, how people you know, people you love people you only heard about, all of them are dying. Being there then, would he really step up, just to save someone else? I mean even as Jew, not as Pole? Is it really that easy for him to jeopardise his own life, lives of his family, ans sometimes even whole village?
And you guys need to understand that for one polish family saving Jews, were another 10-15 families knowing about this and keeping their mouth shut. Around 2010 I've realised (as a Pole) that if you ask any elder who remember war, about saving Jews, they always knew, who, where, etc. always.
czcams.com/video/jRk5QOKhjS0/video.html
Moje dzieciństwo przebiegło na granicy warszawskiego getta, chodziłem do szkoły w miejscu, gdzie ginęli bohaterowie żydowskiego powstania. Teraz mieszkam blisko Treblinki. Tyle bólu, tyle cierpienia obojga narodów. Czy da się być jeszcze bliżej? Co za demony zatruwają naszą wspólną pamięć?
Jasne demony. To nie Polska ani Polacy nie są problemem w tych relacjach. Można prześledzić jak żyły mniejszości etniczne w Rzeczpospolitej na przestrzeni wieków i jak zachowywały się w obliczu agresji czy to Cesarstwa niemieckiego czy to Prus czy to Austrii czy to Niemiec czy to Rosji.
Te demony nazywają się pieniądze.
Piekny komentarz. Wzruszyl mnie do lez.
As a Pole who spent a decade traveling and working across many European countries after Poland's accession to the EU, I was astonished to encounter Jews harboring animosity towards young Poles simply for being Polish. We had no connection to the events in Tsarist Russia or German-occupied Poland, yet we were met with hostility. I'm not suggesting that all the Jews I encountered held such sentiments, but the fact that a significant portion-1 in 3-is alarming. Many of these individuals seemed unwilling to reconcile.
Mr Rubenfeld, Thank you for sharing this interview. Being born and raised in America with Polish parents who came to the states to escape communism, I never had any negative experiences with Jewish people until recently. My family recently moved to a Jewish neighborhood. I was out in my yard playing with my son, when a few new neighbors began to talk with me. When they found out I was Polish, they told me and my 4 year old son, "My family HATES Polish people!" How would you respond to that?
Wow! That's so sad...I am not sure how I would respond to such a claim... but knowing myself , I would probably ask " why". Then I would either gently respond or not depending of that person behavior.
Living in Poland I had no idea how much Jews dislike Poland and how our relationships being misrepresented or misunderstood.
In Poland I had Jewish friends and neighbors and there was no issues at all.
I only learned about this " hatress", aversion to Poland and Poles by meeting Canadian , American and Israel Jews. It was quite a shock.
Kiedy byłem kilkuletnim chłopcem, dużo słyszałem o tym, co wyadrzyło się w czasie niemieckiej okupacji w Słonimie. To jest obecnie na Białorusi, ale przed wojną to było polskie miasto zamieszkałe w 80% przez Żydów, 10% Polaków i Białorusinów. W sumie to były dwie różne opowieści. Jedna dotyczyła sowieckiej okupacji a druga niemieckiej. W czasie sowieckiej okupacji, rodzina babci (i mojej mamy) musiała przetrwać stalinowskie czystki polskiej inteligencji. Babcia zawsze podkreślała, że byli źli ludzie i dobrzy ludzie. Dobrzy ludzie jej pomagali. Niezależnie od ich etnicznej przynależności. Potem przyszli Niemcy. Miejscowi Żydzi pamiętali Niemców z czasów I wojny światowej. Wielu z nich również było prześladowanych przez komunistów, więc się cieszyli ze zmiany. A potem przyszło piekło. Babcia opowiadała o masowych egzekucjach Żydów, o ukrywających się sąsiadach u niej na podwórku itd. Zawsze widziała w nich ludzi, na których spadło nieszczęście. I taki obraz przekazała mi. Kiedy się dowiedziałem w późniejszych latach, że Żydzi obwiniają Polaków o holocaust, byłem w szoku. Dlaczego? Przecież to nie my, tylko Niemcy. Jednak później już jako dorosły człowiek przeczytałem o pogromie kieleckim w 1946. To był dla mnie jeszcze większy szok. Nie rozumiałem, jak to było możliwe po tych latach okupacji. W moim rozumieniu, eksplozja nienawiści do osób, które dopiero co przeżyły niespotykanie prześladowania przerastało moje rozumienie. Oczywiście z czasem zacząłem dostrzegać całą złożoność sytuacji. Rozumienie nie daje jednak moralnego prawa do uzasadnienia takich zdarzeń, jak pogrom kielecki, czy mord w Jedwabnem. Ale z historycznego punktu widzenia rzuca nieco szersze światło na złożone stosunki polsko-żydowskie.
A czego nie lubię w żydowskiej narracji? Zawłaszczenia cierpienia. Rozumiem ogrom tragedii. Niemcy zaplanowali Żydom całkowite unicestwienie. Ale nie tylko im. Taki sam los spotkał Cyganów. Na dłuższą metę także planowali unicestwienie Polaków. Dla przypomnienia, mordy na polskiej inteligencji wyprzedzały "ostateczne rozwiązanie kwestii żydowskiej".
Przypominam sobie reakcję pewnej żydowskiej znajomej na opowieść mojej partnerki, że śnił jej się obóz koncentracyjny. Reakcja była prawie histeryczna, jak Polka śmiała śnić o byciu w obozie koncentracyjnym. To przecież żydowskie miejsce cierpienia. No nie, nie tylko. Członkowie mojej rodziny też tam ginęli. Polska inteligencja.
What a fantastically interesting interview! I think this interview will be important years on as a historical document in relations to Jews and Poles. It takes guts to talk about these things with your father on this platform, please continue your great work, Michael! Im not even that interested in Jews (as most Norwegians, as they hardly exist in my country or elsewhere in Europe so I never meet anyone to talk to) but through the interest of Poland my curiosity increased.
Its fascinating to see the emotional trauma that is inherited through generations when it comes to war and genocide. I do feel that the idea of Poles "could have done more" through WW2 is a bit unfair, and that we are in a sad situation of comparing two hells. I strongly believe that many people need to come down from their high horses when faced with the question "what would you have done?" if the strongest military on earth comes knocking on your door with absolutely superior technology speaking a foreign language and you as a father are opening the door with your family in the background being terrified knowing the defending army is probably losing. I think the answer in that moment is pretty easy, even though the guilt might be harder to grasp later. Give up your Jewish neighbors or possible your WHOLE family executed? Come on, nobody values their neighbors more than their own children.
Its also very important to understand that antisemitism was on the rise all over Europe long before it happened in Poland, including where I come from, Norway.
Today, my country gives away the Nobels Peace Price, but even here the Jews were "given" away to the Nazis like everywhere else! It doesnt mean my country should be known for antisemitism. However, interestingly enough, mass immigration of muslims WILL make sure that antisemitism grows all over Europe and probably in Canada and your city as well I can only assume.
How ironic history can be, that Poland is once again probably the safest place in the world for a Jew to live.
Just like Michael said, I like to think, that at the time of the ultimate test I would have the courage - but I cannot be sure. None of us can.
Pozdrawiam Norwegię
Greetings 🇵🇱❤
Which country really gave out Jews during WWII? It was France. But you don't hear about it much.
Poland notifyied the UK, USA about attroccities committed by German Nazis against Jews but it was ignored .
Poland always has been and still is one of the safest place for Jewish people.
There are Jews living in Germany , France, UK and other European countries. Well, they are not so safe in there...Today in UK Jews are being told not wear Star of David or other visible Jewish symbols or garments. In Germany there is police present at every synagogue. This would be unimaginable in Poland.
I'm Polish. In the 90's I lived in NY and worked for Mr. Barland. He was a Jew. Not very orthodox anyway. One day, during a conversation, he said that Poles didn't help Jews enough during World War II. I replied like this:
Mr. Barland, let's imagine Canada attacking the USA. And then declares that Americans will be slaves, and Poles are not people and must be killed. Then they introduce a law that hiding Poles is punishable by death for those hiding them and their entire families. And in this situation, one day I knock on your house and ask for help. What would you do?
Mr. Barland, in his honesty, admitted that he would not let me in and help me. We have thus achieved mutual understanding.
To sum up, Jews allocate their negative feelings completely wrong. If anything, they should hate the Germans about 100,000 times more than the Poles... It's because they exterminated them.
P.S. BTW, my grandfather on my mother's side, being Pole, was also imprisoned in Auchswitz. And then deported as forced labor in Linz. He was killed there six days before liberation, when the Americans bombed the factory where he worked... Whom should I hate because of that…?
I applaud your efforts to build bridges. As we can see from your video, it's often about perception. I would skip the works by Gross and Grabowski. Like those authors or not, their work is largely based on second, third, nth hand accounts. There is a series here on YT created by the USC Shoah Foundation where people in personal interviews share their experience with living in Poland before and during the WW2. First hand information is always best. Regards to your father, and post some more interviews if you have the option.
So far this is the best video on this channel (at least for me). It was so interesting to see your fathers perspective. Keep on the good work that you do on this channel
Amazing talk. Very deep and honest. I admire it. Thank you. I didn’t know than in North America is such a perspective on poles during WWII. I am also shocked. You are doing good job by trying to give the true perspective in this topic.
Thank you for sharing your story Michael and extra thanks to your father for being open about his life, beliefs and journey. I am neither Jewish nor Polish, but am very interested in your stories and experience. The first step in moving beyond our biases is to face them and to understand why they exist. I will never be able to fully understand the trauma that the Jews and non-Jews of Poland suffered and which left such deep scars to this day. I am sure that your sincerity and efforts are making a difference in the healing of those deep wounds. Happy Passover to you, your family and all of your celebrating friends.
Thank you Michael, for the change of perspective in your Dad. For inviting him to your wedding in Poland. People like you have a great chance to change the perception of Poland as a country where, it was the Germans who put up their death factories in which 6,000,000 Jews were killed of which 3,500,000 Jews of Polish origin.
Much health to both of you and your families.
Jews have lived in Poland since the 14th century
In 1333, Casimir the Great came to the Polish throne and was considered the protector of the Jewish population and the ruler who particularly privileged them, even earning the nickname of the King of peasants and Jews. In 1334, he confirmed the "Statute of Kalisz" and then extended its provisions to the entire Kingdom of Poland.
They lived, worked, educated, traded, gave birth and raised their children with us. Why there were the most Jews in Poland in the world for 700 years. Because they were persecuted, murdered, why didn't they escape from Poland, just like they fled from Istanbul, Venice, Padua, Itali, Spain, France?
These were and are Poles of the Judaic faith.
There were Poles who helped Jews, there were Poles who sold Jews to the Gestapo.
There were Jews who fought in the Polish army in 1939 and in the Home Army and in the Warsaw Uprising, there were Jews who in September 1939 shot at Polish soldiers in the east when the Bolsheviks entered.
People are good and bad, regardless of skin color, religion or nationality.
It is important that there are more good ones.
Poles were henchmans of germans at ww2? And Your Dad is sure because other jew said it? Polish people were murdered for helping jews(as remember about 1mln died for that) and We have aroun10.000 among the righteous, I also have some information from grandfathers and grandgrandfathers who were there - but history is written by winners
I believe it was(is) political matter that says PolesVSJews, but the reall life don't have to be like that
I was shocked with this statement as well. His dad made an opinion about Poles based on hearsay. I really do not understand why Jews hate us so much
@@Pudelek2025 "Za pieniądze ksiądz się modli, za pieniądze lud się podli...." Taki stary wiersz.
Tylko w Polsce pod okupacja niemiecka za pomoc Żydom groziła kara śmierci a pomimo to Polacy pomagali i ryzykowali swoje życie i swojej rodziny. Mam pytanie czy ten pan ratował by Polaków w podobnej sytuacji?¿?
Nie tylko w Polsce
@@jezalb2710 gdzie jeszcze?bo może niedoinformowana jestem
Pleasd thank your Father, I got to understand many things from his story. Appreciated and thank you both.
If someone is asking a question "why Polish people didn't save mores Jews" I want to ask what else could Family of Ulm's (parents and 6 children under age 8)
do to save Jews - die twice? And their neighbours at that same time hiding Jews? They saved 21 Jews in Markowa, knowing they could be the next. Ask yourself what would you do in that situation?
Wow. Such a emotional conversation between a son and a father.
Stating - I'd rather have an Elvis in Las Vegas at my son's wedding than go to Poland for a traditional Jewish wedding - is very telling. And I'm not being judgmental. It shows the gross of trauma that unfortunately developed prejudice.
And then at the end the change into saying: 'I have a grandson in Poland!' spoken with pride. Wow! What a change in heart.
Michael you're a true Ambassador for Poland!
Wspaniała rozmowa, oczyszczajaca, wyjaśniająca i układająca te rozbiegane uczucia. Cudownie jest móc tak rozmawiać i pięknie się tego słucha. Zastanawiałam się nad traumą karzącą wręcz Polskę jak dziecko które oskarża współuzależnioną matkę za wszystkie przewiny ojca alkoholika. Często ojciec alkoholik jest nawet mniej znienawidzony niż ta matka, która nieumiejętne próbując przetrwać w zwiazku z tyranem też krzywdziła dziecko. Tak bardzo mi ta Panów rozmowa przywodziła na myśl te skojarzenie, nie wiem czy słusznie, ale czy nie ma w tym czegoś...?
Nasunęła mi się ta sama myśl.
Dziwne i trudne są to rzeczy. Moja babcia, której mąż (mój dziadek) zginął na wojnie największy zal miała do dziadka nie do Niemców. Często słyszałam, że ją zostawił z małymi dziećmi....a on przecież został zabity...
@@BarbaraBarbara81010 Tak mówią kobiety z niedojrzałą osobowością, które oczekują opieki ze strony innych przez całe życie.
@@ewasa7061 Może...nie wiem, ale z latami i zdobytą wiedzą , również życiową, myślę, że moja babcia od czasu wojny do swojej śmierci kilkadziesiąt lat później była w depresji.Dla mnie była dobrą, troskliwą babcią i miała bardzo wrażliwą duszę Nigdy później nie wyszła za mąż, chociaż miała wiele propozycji. Faktem jest, że jako dziecko i panienka była rozpieszczona i tak miało wyglądać jej całe życie. a wojna to zmieniła. Tak wychowanych panien było kiedyś wiele . Słowa goryczy słyszałam ok trzydzieści lat po wojnie, kiedy już babcia sama musiała sobie radzić i jakoś poradziła. W jej bliskiej rodzinie zginęło jeszcze kilku mężczyzn. Zostały same kobiety z małymi dziećmi i babcie, ciocie oraz wrogie państwo. Dziadek przed wojną pracował w fabryce swojego wuja. Samej babci nie było łatwo , żyła w strachu w czasie wojny i po wojnie. Ja osobiście mam wielką niechęć i do Germanów (Niemców, Austriaków) i do Rosjan. Byli oni i są bydlakami i mieli bardzo negatywny wpływ na losy mojej rodziny.
Jako feministka i to radykalna, w pełni popieram Twój komentarz, Kasiu. Zresztą, mam ten sam problem z notabene Geddym Lee, który wypisał trochę o Polsce w "My Effin' Life".
To a non-Jewish Pole, the most disturbing paradoxes in the conversation about WW2 are not emotions and trauma -- as important as they are -- but the avoidance of objective facts: 1. Germany attacked Poland to start WW2 (why would Poles as a nation be complicit with the enemy who considered them sub-human?); 2. Poland had the largest Jewish population in the world prior to WW2 (why would the Jews choose to live in a country of notorious antisemites?). After we face these facts, we can consider the possibilities: was it possible for the non-Jewish Poles to hate the Germans but still collaborate with them because of the Poles' deep-seated prejudice against the Jews? Was it possible for the Polish Jews to live in Poland until 1939 despite the notorious antisemitism? Yes, possibilities in large groups of people always exist. Yet, rational thinking dictates that it is irrational to accept glaring contradictions where the entire Polish nation chose to collaborate with the hated Germans in killing the Jews with whom they managed to get along, by and large, until September 1, 1939. Both sides should handle these historical facts before stepping into particular experiences, instances, examples of cruelty, and prejudice. Again, does the country with the largest Jewish population before WW2 deserve the reputation of suddenly becoming as bad or even worse than the Nazis?
No właśnie
It was very much possible for the Polish Jews to "live in Poland until 1939 despite the notorious antisemitism" (Can you show me a place in Central or Eastern Europe where e.g. Gypsies are not stigmatised a.d. 2024? And do they move out en masse from these places/countries?). Even today people migrate volontarily to countries where they know they might face contempt or in the very least condescension (E.g. Poles and other Central-Eastern Europeans who moved to the West for work). And anyway, where would those Jews move before 1939? There wasn't a better alternative back then.
These aren't really contradictions, or at least not so glaring when you compare them with modern-day examples and realize that prejudice is an irrationality to begin with 90% of the time, so it' doesn't have to follow some logical rules (shocker: humans aren't as rational as they think). And you already answered the question in your original comment anyway. At the same time, this irrationality (plus 22:18) is also the reason why the Jews are so slow to make up a more accurate opinion about Poland, which would be the reasonable thing to do...
@@tomaszgarbino2774 Yours is a circular argument. Because there was no "better alternative back then" for the Jews to live in Europe (due to antisemitism), they had to choose a place where antisemitism was at its highest, knowing full well that it was a country of villainous, murderous henchmen. Hence, it is rational to say that the Poles were as antisemitic, or even worse than the Nazis compared to other European nations (like the French, or the Dutch, for example). I hope you will admit that a dangerous fallacy happens here. While we can agree that antisemitism was rampant across Europe, statistically, it must have been the least rampant in Poland for the Jews to live there, judging by the numbers (the most plausible cause-and-effect by all accounts). It is improbable for the least antisemitic nation before the war (based on the numbers) to become the most antisemitic nation in a manner of two short war years, judging by the accusations of some). In such calculations, we are playing with possibilities that don't have to be true. It's about the most likely cause-and-effect, where we don't draw the most harmful conclusions based on shifting probabilities. I came to Canada and still live there, knowing that there might be some anti-Catholic and anti-Polish sentiment here ahead of time. Did I come and stay because I had nowhere else to go? Absolutely not, and most people don't do that, especially knowing that the country of their destination is the worst possible choice. They settle somewhere only because their new home is more tolerable rather than less tolerable. Indeed, among the countries with Roma populations, some treat them relatively better than others. All I'm saying is to keep the dialogue rational without underhanded shifts in logic where the relatively most tolerant country is labeled the worst, which often becomes the essence of this debate.
That is exactly the point. The paradox of it all. Unfortunately that is the pervasive narrative taught in schools in Canada. While in high school in Canada, we a Jewish lady as a guest speaker. She claimed that "Poland surrendered because they wanted to get rid of Jews." Spoke very badly of Poles and claimed that they were the most evil collaborators. Ironically or tragically, she herself was saved by a Polish family who sheltered her for a few years of the war. She said that they had treated her like family and admitted that they had risked their lives. She also mentioned many others having been saved by Polish families. Somehow, this did prevent her from speaking of Poles as evil and vile collaborators. This has remained in my memory as I have found it profoundly offensive. I can't even blame her. She was a child. However, these narratives appear in history books in Canada. The Polish Embassy in Canada file a law suit to address the issue of historical incorrectness in the history books and the anti-polish sentiment. They lost the case to the Jewish organizations. One wonders if there is no agenda behind these narratives. Individuals might well be unaware, and I also accept the trauma, however this narrative is to pervasive and coordinated to be innocent. Thus the statements: "Polish concentration camps" and "Polish collaborators" are not mistakes.
Of course not. Jews lived in Poland for almost 1000 years. Poland had largest population of Jews in Europe. Why? They fled many European countries were they were persecuted and faced pogroms. Only in Polans they were safe. One well known Rabbi ( can recall his name now) said " Poland was safe heaven for Jews until 1939.
In IV century King Kazimierz Wielki opened Poland for Jews from all over Eutope. They not only get Polish citizenship, all rights and privileges as Polish citizens but also had their autonomy granted, so they were allowed to build their own communities, speak their language, have their own schools , synagogues, etc to keep their culture, tradition, religion .
1939 changed everything invasion of Germany and Soviets.
Now , why there was situation such as Kielce pogrom.. Well, in my view it wasn't the hatress towards Jews . Most likely those people were also extremely traumatized by years of war. Don't forget Poland also lost more then 6mln people. Polish people also have died in concentration camps or were taken to labor camps in Germany. Most never came back. Poland was taken by two countries, Germany from the West and USSR from the east. Remember Katyn were Soviets deported and murdered 10000s of Polish officers and intelligentsia? Remember Wolyn where Ukrainian Nazis tortured, murdered with extreme bestiality over 200 thousand Polish civilians? Remember Warsaw uprising where over 250k Polish civilians were killed, Warsaw was turned into ruble?
Well, Poles were traumatized just the same as Jews.
here are some ww2 stories for your dad:
my moms grandma was snatched of the streets of krakow for being polish in the wrong place at the wrong time. she was deemed not aryan enough for slave labor in germany, so they had her do slave labor in aushwitz where she died soon after. her family was not there, so they got to see the poles hanging in the streets instead of their wife/mom coming back home.
my family in the mountains routinely had all their food taken by the germans to the point that they were almost starving, which was pretty typical at the time. they had sick malnourished kids so they snuck some food under the floor. when the soldiers came with their dog to search the house for food, it started barking when it sensed the food. but coincidentally, a german soldier was standing and holding a sandwich in that exact spot, so he just laughed at the dog thinking it wanted his food, which saved their lives.
fun fact my grandma was born sep 1, 1939 but has never talked about the war or her childhood. she pretty stereotypically does not like germany. not much else that i know
my dads friend was sent to do slave labor in germany, for several years. after the war he escaped to canada, lived in america and now retired in canada where he enjoys ice fishing. absolute unit of a man, even at like 95years or so. i think his "reparations" for years of forced labor was like $200 or something else stupid.
fun communism stories:
my mom graduated with a degree in chem (she specifically loved org chem) and to afford the lab coat she needed for work, she spent her entire monthly salary. same story for the shoes.
at one point the lack of food was so bad that her family had to make soup from stray dog meat and it traumatized my mom really badly bc shes always had pet dogs and she lovess dogs
russians brought drinking culture with them into industrial cities, and used a lott of child labor to keep their factories growing. the male children often became alcoholics, along with the male adults. the lawn in front of nowa huta was often strewn with unconscious men, passed out from drinking. women had to deal with this, and work, and raise a family and manage a home while in poverty and under strict surveillance. liberation at last!!! (/s)
in fact since everyone was forced to work, a lot of farmers clocked in 8h at the factory and then went back to work on the farm...insane grind im ngl😭
the russians also tried to force romani people out of their way of life and make then workers living in commie blocks. in my dads neighborhood, they used up all the floorboards in their designated commie block for firewood and then left. some men would make money by walking and playing music in a little band on the street for tips.
a lot of kids (especially in commie factory areas) were really fked up emotionally, and they would harass you for any reason under the sun. it could be because youre younger, are a redhead, or support the wrong soccer team. my dad had to defend his siblings from kids like this, who probably grew up to be soccer hooligans. thankfully with every generation there is less of this, now its not a problem.
in the bottom of my dads building, an old jewish man had a shoe shop (szefc). he owned several cats for the shop, and some local kids would bully him for being an old cat man. my dad was his friend and defended him. he also paid my dad to pick cherries from the local trees where kids climbed and ate all the time, which was his way of showing support.
my mom left poland right before chernobyl happened. russia suppressed all news of it and instead forced everyone to go outside for a victory parade, where they breathed in the toxic air. some people she knew died of esophageal cancer. in fact her mom died of breast cancer quite early, not sure if related. but i hear it was the worst in białoruś.
because of the new factory nearby, the inside of my parents noses were always black with soot after going outside. they also had to constantly clean the windows with toothpaste (they didnt have anything else to clean windows with)
also during communism you couldnt really talk about ww2 unless you were doing it to praise the soviet union. so im sure the trauma was processed well. (/s)
theres a lot more i guess but thats all i have for now
Michael, wonderful conversation, the extraordinary sincerity of both of you! I was very touched… Thank you! What made me sad was the fact that your father still considers Poles to be criminals and the number of righteous people seems too small to him. I think about what, for example, my grandparents, workers from Bydgoszcz, could have done. How were they supposed to help the Jews? they had no underground apartments, no contacts, no transfer networks…Since I was a child, I was taught at school that when something happens, you should call the police or the city guard. Even if they had phones, they had no one to call… There was no social media where you could set up a closed group. I think that history happens to simple people, they don't create it. My grandfather was in german navy before IWW and in 1939 when germans came to Bydgoszcz they wanted him to sign the volkslist. He did not sign and went to prison. Second grandfather signed and when russians came he went to the prison in ZSRR… I understand the trauma and for example If you were robbed in a park, you may have negative associations with that park forever. Even if park is innocent. But for me is hard to understand why negative scenario of polish involvement was passed in schools in Canada.
Trauma from IIWW and holocaust is huge in Poland. I remamebr my granmather. She grow up in small village close to Warsaw in polish/jewish community. When she was old and her Alzheimer started to work in her mind, she all the time was telling me a story: In 1939 germans came to her village and they was catching Jews. All people had to go outside. Then her small classmate, girl, started running away. She was Jewish. When se reached the wooden cross, one of the germans shot her in the back. She died immediately. Grandma couldn't cope with it until her death few years ago....
Thank you very much for this conversation. I only needed to discuss one issue. Some Jews from Poland felt and still feel Polish and Judaism is only a religion for them. When I talked to them, they were "very disappointed" with how Jews (Germans, Americans, Austrian, Russians, Israeli) from abroad, who have never visited Poland and have never had relations with Poles, are destroying their everyday relations with the rest of Polish society.
Thanks to the both of you for this interview. It is always very interesting to hear about other narratives as well as how and why the perspective may change.
Thanks Michael for very interesting interview. You really trying to understand complicated history of Poland. My grandparents (from bouth side's) survive Germans working comps ( my grandma was just 9 years old) When Germans came in to they village first what they did was killing couple of old people just to terrorizie the whole village. Then the whole village were packed up to animal wagons and sent to Germany to work camps. By the way my grandpa had to work as a slave for Bayer company They survived but obviously with massive trauma. At the end I must say that they wasn't Jewish but Polish and for people like my it's very hard and sad that someone can put as to the same basket as Germans. They were suffering through all 5 years of war,I hope that some day world will get better knowledge about what was really like during the 2war in Poland😢 . I really enjoy your content, keep it up good work
Yeah, during ww2 my 16 year old father was taken for works in Germany. In fact it was near Opole, now in Poland. He worked for German bauer hanging 60kg bags with grain. Twice he escaped and back to home, but was taken back and said if he escape one more time all his younger siblings will be killed. He didn’t escape more and all four younger had build communist Poland as miners. After war his work in Germany hasn’t been possible to document so he didn’t get any penny. All I’ve mentioned live in my memory.
Very informative video. Being born and raised in Poland, taught at school about German occupation of Poland with all of its consequences, including Holocaust, I can easily discern facts from misinformation about the WWII. Yet, if you don't know the facts, how can you not believe your close ones? Even if they just say anything, but transfer the message on the emotional level. Thanks for being so open both about the existing narrative - I had no idea of it (I live in Poland, so know only first hand accounts presented in many of our museums, never heard any survivors descendants accounts from abroad) Now it all makes sense, why the press is often so bad for Poland - it just represents common narratives. You're doing more for Poland than our diplomats - you educate :) I really appreciate the delicacy with which you walked your dad through the conversation. Very tough one, at the top of that.
Communists fought will all religions .catholic church also
My personal take after listening a lot about the subject is like this:
Germans who performed the crime were nameless for the Jews. Those Poles, who assisted them, were not nameless for the Jews. Being betrayed by somebody you know and even trust occupies a special place in your memory, I guess (even if the traitor is statistically a black sheep of the community).
Rings very true
How about the Jews who betrayed their own to the Germans? The Judenrat, Adam Czernikow, Chaim Rumkowski and the Jewish Ghetto police that helped the Germans.
I wonder what would it be in case of opposite situation and every Jew would have to risk his neck to save a Polish some people say not even one pole, would survive.
Michael And Your Dad...Love You And God Bless You!!!
Interesting way to talk about Poland. It tells you a lot. Poland is the home of POLES, however you talk about it, as they some kind second place to Jews , who were given shelter when everyone else in Europe killed and prosecuted you. You were able to survive as a viable group only due to hospitality and tolerance of our forefathers. Yet, over the centuries you even did not bother to learn Polish, you spoke Yiddish which is a corrupted German. Now, compare it to the situation in Palestine. What conclusion can you draw ?
I have to say that it is a very interesting interview Michael. It was painful to hear that there are people putting the same blame on Poles like on Germans, but hearing out the perspective was a very informative experience.
Hi ,what are your opinions on Jews like Norman Filkenstein or Shlomo Sand and their views on Jewishness?
Greetings for both handsome fellows:) The truth is that if the Poland had not lost in 1939 to the Germans supported by the Soviets, Polish Jews would not have faced extermination. There would be no Holocaust on our common ground. Despite all the flaws and irritations between Poles and Jews before the WW II , it was a country wich name really have been meaning for a Jews :"Po lin" (here you will spend the night or rest here). Also remember that the books you mention are only part of the truth. For example, Grabowski in his "Judenjagd" described the "hunt for Jews" in Powiśle Dąbrowskie, but he did not find any information out that my family save the entire Jewish family. Grabowski couldn't find it because my grandparents and peoples like he didn't brag about it.
Bad things are always easier to get at than good things, especially when they had to happen in secret. They were certainly not the only ones in this district who helped Jews. After the war my father met a jewish man of his age who was saved by my grandfather. I mean, they survived.
Zapłacili im za ochronę? Tak się działo podobno. Gruba kasa za to
To chyba twój najciekawszy filmik
Big respect for you and your father for making this interview. It takes courage to publicly say that your past views and perceptions were very wrong. I really like what you are doing on this channel Michael - showing Poles and Jews each others perspectives and as a result bringing us closer together.
Thank you for this conversation gentlemen, my mum's family had two Juwish men hiding in their burn during the war . This was risking lifes of the family of 8 kids and parents, the penalty forsed by Germans on the Pols for hiding Jews. My mum is 89 now and warmly holds this memory of her neighbours...
Yes, Jews in Poland and entire Europe have been traumatized during the WWII but Polish people have been traumatized just as same as well. They were facing not only German Nazis from the West but also Soviets and Ukrainan Nazis from the East.
I recommend you find out more about Wolyn massacre, Katyn and other genocidal acts against Poles. Soviets hunted down, deported and murdered most of Polish army officers and intelligentsia . Ukrainian Nazis murdered around 200k Polish civilians , women , children in barbaric , horrifying ways. So, Poles were attacked from all sides and atrocities, genocides were comitted by Germans , Soviets and Ukrainians.
Helping Jewish person in any way was a crime by German occupant and punishment was death . Often not only the person who was helping or hiding a Jew was murdered but their familes and even neighbors as well. Despite that many Poles risked their and their families lives to help Jews. Many priests, parishes and monasteries were hiding Jews. It's well known that priests often falsified doucuments like baptism certificate for Jews, so they had a chance to survive by claiming they were Poles and Catholics .
When it comes to claim that Poles were antisemitic prior the WWII ...
Many Jews assimilated and live their lives as freely as everyone else. Many famous Polish writers, poets, musicians, artists, scientists, proffesors, doctors had Jewish roots. It's worth to ask a question : if Poland was so antisemitic, then how was possible for so many Jews become such successful, prominent, well known and respected members of Polish nation?
It's also worth to mention that Jews not only were welcomed in Poland , got Polish citizenship, all the rights and privileges as Poles but also have granted their autonomy. So, they were free to create their own communities ( often entire viliges, towns or parts of the cities), practice their religion, have their own schools, keep their language, traditions, culture. Many didn't even speak Polish language and never assimilated with Poles. Not because Poles forced them not to assimilate but because Jews choose to do so. They were happy living in their own communities, own circles and no one had any issues with that.
Those are facts many people don't know about it.
I would recommend to look up proffesor Boleslaw Wolniewicz work. It might help you to understand why history of Polish-Jewish relations got so misrepresented.
Great material! I will add something more to the part of helping Ukrainians with my own experience. When I was a childe my parents was taling to me that I should never trust Ukrainians (becouse of sloter of Polish women and kids in Wołyń during WW2). When the war started in 2022 my parents say that they can host refuges in their home. In that time we helped two Ukrainians familys. To help them numerous people were involved. Some voluntiers were riding to the border to bring Ukrainians to other Polish cities. Others offered them temporary shelter for one or two days and then others get them for long stay. One of the families lonly mother with two little douhters had only two small suitcases with them. My sister presented them clothes. They cannot withdraw money from their bank account and it was imposible to exchange their currency at that time. We helped them with our money. I know a lot of people who somehow helped the refuges. I am pretty sure that almost half of Poles where somehow commited to it. Some by action some by foundraising. My point is Poles prove that they are in majority good people. The help to Jaws during the WW2 were so much harder. Polish citizens before and during ww2 often starved during winter. It was dificult to get food for themselves not mention the hiding Jaws who can't work becouse they will be spoted and the host family would be executed. For those Jaws who criticise the Poles of not rescue more Hitlers victims it is the best time to prove your morality. What have you done to stop Putlers agresion where russian bombarding civilians all the time, where massgraves are often found? Your goverment haven't send any military help to Ukraine to fight with new Hitler. Do you donated at least money for Ukraine? If you cannot do such small thing do not blame Polish farmers that they did not helped Jews in their situation.
One quarter of my family spent the war saving Jews, the second quarter in the German labour camps, the rest just trying to survive but never denouncing their neighbours hiding Jewish families. All of them paid the price. None of them ever got the title for Righteous among the Nations but I know how much cooperation from Polish people it required to save just 1 Jew. All of theese people were risking their lives and the lives of their children just to do the right thing. And we are proud of that. That kind of pride is potentially the best bridge between our nations. However every time I hear: "oh, you could have done more" I begin to wonder if my grandparents actions were even worth the effort. You should think about that and show some grattitude not only for those who you know helped your people but for the Poland as a country for a culture that made such bravery so humble and even possible.
Excellent, powerful and such an important conversation! Thank you for it.
Two points: my great aunt was part of a network helping Jewish family survive in Warsaw. Never got any recognition for it. Second, in response to your wondering why more people didn’t help Jews during the war, I would ask… how do WE, today stand up to injustice…. what about the war on Gaza, what about that? Of course I don’t ‘blame’ Jewish people for that but one could ask why so many Israeli citizens go along with what Israel is doing to Palestinians.
Very good story. I think that you help to Cure your father trauma. Now you are like a doctor.
Hahah Dr. Michael :)
Dziękuję Michael za to co robisz. Serdecznie pozdrawiam Ciebie, Twojego ojca i rodzinę.🌹
thanks again and keep up your good work
I always wonder why there is so much hate against Poles and not Germans who invaded Poland, killed milions of Polish citizens, they even introduced the law that any form of help to a Jewish person will be punished by death - no other country only Poland had such German Nazi rule. Why? Because they knew the Polish would and did help the Jews. To mention a few facts: The institute Yad Vashem granted their honourable title for saving Jewish people during WW2 to Poles and Poland is the only nation with the highest representatives with this title; Witold Pilecki - a volounteer to Auschwitz - his sacrifuce to spread the info about the German Nazi death camps to western allies; the Ulma family who were killed together with their 7 children for helping Jewish family, Irena Sendlerowa who saved hundreds of Jewish children, the Żegota organization, Zofia Kossak-Szczucka, The Polish Underground!!!
This comment relates to this video and the video with your father. Having grown up in still communist Poland, I saw no antisemitism. In schools we were taught respect for the Jews and their suffering. Jewish cemeteries were cared for. It was quite a shock, to come face to face with the narrative your father expressed towards Poland and Poles after moving to Canada. It was also deeply offensive. It still is. My grandmother worked at a bakery as a simple sales lady, she would give bread to Poles and Jews alike even when they did not have money or ration cards. She was no hero. Such simple acts of kindness were infinite. To know all of this, and be blamed by the very people we tried to save... . Now, there is a genocide in Gaza and also the West Bank. It is easy to blame the "extremists" in the government. However, one wonders. I saw the protesters blocking humanitarian aid going into Gaza. Jews, claiming to be the victims of genocide with this moral self- righteousness, are having picnics while blocking food from starving people. The same Jews who then go on and blame Poles for "complicity". Yet, Poles threw bread over the ghetto walls. Bread they themselves did not have. Some were shot in the process. Jews are having picnics while blocking aid and enjoy the "fireworks" of a place being bombed to smithereens. And I asked the same question "what's wrong with these people" to quote your father. Then I remember what I've read during the pandemic: To understand history, it is not enough to remember that Hitler killed 6 mld Jews, but how he convinced millions of regular Germans that it was necessary". In the face of this genocide in Palestine, Jews need to do more than just soul search. An explanation, its the extremists in the government does no longer suffice either. There appears to be something deeply troubling in the Jewish society akin to Nazi Germany, and I am not saying it lightly.
Aha, ten naród został specjalnie wyhodowany tak żeby go spaczyć. Wdrukowano im nienawiść do wszystkich i wszystkiego, w połączeniu z przekonaniem o własnej wyjątkowości. Wszczepiono im coś co nazywa się "syndromem oblężonej twierdzy". Mniej więcej oznacza to, że ci ludzie są przekonani, że wszyscy zawsze będą chcieli ich zabić i ich jedyna opcją jest trzymanie się zębami i pazurami tego spłachetka ziemi w Palestynie. Pytanie, komu jest potrzebny naród o takich cechach w tym akurat miejscu? Kto przeprowadził taki eksperyment?
Pytasz co jest nie tak z tymi ludźmi.
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Thank you Michael. That was an honest conversation. My father was Polish and lived through WW2, eventually ended up in UK. He never spoke about the Jews until his sister in law married an American Jew who accused the Poles of not doing enough to help the Jews in the war. He became very angry about that. As has already been said, Poland was the only country in occupied Europe which had the death sentence if you helped a Jew. I respect you for trying to put the record straight. All that is in the past now and let’s hope we can come to a new understanding.
Poland not having a collaborationist Gov during the war, unlike most European countries, had its own underground law in regards to 'szmalcownictwo' (ratting out people to the occupant, including J-people) too.
Polish citizens, including Catholics and J*** involved in this practice were, at times, sentenced to death because of it under the law enforced by Home Army under occupation.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
That was extremely interesting. A very difficult topic to unpack.
Greetings to your Family in Canada! It was an interesting interview, thank you!
Very interesting interview showing complexity of Jewish anti-polish narrative and perception.
It doesn't matter if we agree (or not) with the reasons behind, that's the perception and the background.
Thank you, such interviews and talks are doing way more good than just synthetic explanations with the reasons behind.
The difference is like between talking to each other and talking with each other. At first glance it seems similar but in the latter - people are really exchanging their ideas, feelings instead of talking to the wall and saying their perspective without listening the other side.
Great job Michał! 👍
One of the most moving conversations I have ever heard. A conversation that is a starting point for a thousand more conversations. Oh, Michael... You and your father put me on such a rollercoaster of emotions, that I cannot speak. If I started, I might never stop.
Just one thing: fragmented knowledge is probably worse than complete ignorance. This is true for both our nations. Thank you, gentlemen, for allowing us to witness this very emotional, very intimate exchange. My best wishes to you both. Serdeczne życzenia (s)pokoju i szczęścia - z Warszawy.
Słucham z zapartym tchem. Dziękuję. Życzę Wam i sobie pokoju, szacunku i przyjaźni.
Michael, thank you for your attempt to break this generational hatred towards Poland and Poles.
Michael, Ruben, thank you for this extremely helpful and needed interview.
The Jews people especially the Israeli have a similar opportunity to that of the Polish living during WW 2 to show their humanity by their reaction to the Israeli government occupation and treatment of the Palestinians. Does their silence or blatant support of the war mean complicity in the crimes committed by IDF and the far right Israeli government?
Very uplifting story, thanks.
A heartfelt and very thoughtful conversation on a difficult topic. You have my full admiration. Thank you.
Being openly antipoles is always shocking to me in todays times… imagine selling T-shirt I love Poles in Israel.
Great interview, fresh perspective, very informative!
Thx for the interview! It's good to hear that your father is exploring Poland's history by literally stepping on it, and talking to people who can show him even more then he can learn from books. It was interesting to see his perspective and thoughts.
It is worth noting that the Polish-Ukrainian history is a very difficult one, before and during the IIWW war, when Ukrainians carried out many massacres on Polish civilians, very similar to the slaughter Hamas carried out on 10/7 in Israel. The Chmielnicki ( Khmelnytsky) Upraising was as bloody for Poles as for Jews.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
Skala zbrodni ukraińskich na Polakach, na Wołyniu, i w Małopolsce nie ma porównania do ohydnego zbrodniczego napadu w Izraelu. Ukraińcy wymordowali w okrutny nieludzki sposób od 150,000 do 500,000 ludzi. NIe mozna ustalić tej górnej liczby, ale padła ona w czasie jednej z konferencji historyków z Polski i Ukrainy wiele lat temu.
During the war, Poles were treated just as badly as Jews. Please do not forget that the first concentration camps were built for Poles, not Jews. Polish citizens were killed along with their entire families for saving the lives of citizens of Jewish origin, and yet they saved them. It is obvious that among the Poles there were criminals who betrayed Jewish citizens for appropriate remuneration. But we were the only country under German occupation in which the underground government recognized such conduct as crimes and people who betrayed Jews to the Germans were sentenced to death.
A question comes to my mind. How many Jews sacrificed their lives and the lives of their families to save Poles?
I gave a thumbs up. However I still don't understand as to why most Jews think Poland was a hostile place towards Jews - I mean, if it had the biggest Jewish population, it had to be a good place for them to migrate there, no? It seems very logical and plain. I do however understand that there were unfortunately MANY people who disliked Jews, just how there are many people who dislike blacks, Slavs, Chinese etc etc. however that didn't shape the whole country in any way.
Like you guys were saying, most Jews and Israelis have no idea Polish people themselves were occupied. Majority tried to resist, some sadly collaborated. That needs to be more known in Israel, maybe then relations will improve.
It's true that many Poles are a little unfriendly towards foreigners. Unfortuntely, I feel as Israelis by default take a hostile stance to Poland - the opposite is not usually the case.
Anyway, I'm a little disappointed to what is happening on the Israel-Poland line at the moment (both sides are here to blame a little on the worsening relations) hopefully that gets better soon.
Regards
I hear and try to understand that interview. Very hard to explain what happened and why your father get all negative point if view to hate polish people. I know now living in USA that Jews hate poles just because. I try to understand that hate because I never hate other people,
Ok, you try to be honest in your films, so I'll be honest too. I was raised to respect the history (especially the Holocaust) of Jews and them as co-inhabitants of Poland over the centuries. I heard only positive things about Jews from my family. My grandmother came from the Kielce area and always praised her pre-war relations with Jews. I heard from some random people from time to time that Jews hate us for nothing. But I treated it as gossip and some isolated situations. From your conversation with your father, I learned that these are not isolated cases, but standard. It was a big disappointment, but I must admit that it was easier for me to accept your father's initial views about Poland when he knew nothing about it, than his expectation of "something more" from Poles when he already knew what our situation was and what the consequences were for helping Jews. This is lack of respect for Poles who gave their lives saving Jews. I feel hurt and offended after listening to this conversation. It is simply unfair.
I am happy to see you can feel good in Poland. Your father is so welcomed and I hope you get into love with Poland more and more.
Didn't think I would last an hour, but as usual I got pulled in. Super interesting. Way before I discovered your channel I was thinking about Polish people saving Jews during the war. Poland was one of the poorest countries in Europe. Only 19 years of independence. And it had to contribute a lot to Germany's war efforts. It had to be super tough to feed your own family. Having a whole other family to feed I just can't imagine. Not like one could drive to a nearest supermarket and purchase things. Life had to be hard for everybody. Oh, and yes. Every nation will have complicit citizens. I wouldn't ever want to be facing this kind of decision.
Excellent interview. Thank you
On one side it’s painful to hear that as a Polish person. On the other side I am happy we have a educator. I am happy you do what you do and tell always the true. Poland has dark sides and we have to also talk about it but also write have to talk about non Jews killed in concentration camps and they suffered as much a Jews.
Dude, that was awesome
Great work Mike. Kind regards to your father.
Many thanks!
Michael, you became my another jewish friend! It was all very nice of you. God bless you, Bro.
Interesting conversation (I listened half of it). I've never heard about Piłsudski being specially philosemitic. I think you exagerrate antisemitism in Poland prior to WW II. You're likely refering to Dmowski's National Democracy as those huge antisemites. I've read and listened about situation of Jews in Second Polish Republic (SPR) a lot including pogroms and I would describe it as... the situation of African Amiericans in the US today. I.e. there is a lot of African Americans in the US, and there were a lot Jews in SPR. Many representatives of African Americans believes they are exposed to terrible racism and a lot of Jews believed they were exposed to terrible antisemitism but generally both groups are able to coexist and thrive, make careers etc. etc. (Jewsh physicians, lawers, writers like Tuwim, Brzechwa, Słonimski, etc. etc.) Of course that's my point of view and you can disagree.
Piłsudski walcząc o niepodległość Polski, miał sporo problemów z Żydami kolaborującymi z bolszewikami.
That is very hurtfull to recognise that so much, that Poles had to go throuhg is totally not recognise by one those we sacrifice so much for. So much hurt...
Hello Carry!
Kolejny raz słyszę jak pisze się na nowo historię o WWII i Polakach.
Szkoda tylko, że Was zabrakło na wszystkich frontach WWII, za to dziś dzielnie walczycie o status najbardziej poszkodowanych.. ehh!
Bądźcie zdrów, Bóg w Wami!
Pozdrawiam 👋
Podobała mi się ta rozmowa. Pozdrowienia dla Taty.
Poles? ommision to help Jews? Are you fucking serious?!! We sucrifice our freedom, life, family, for Jews and all who are voulnarble... So many polish people died on streets, on street battles and in concentration camps for freedom of all free nationts. I'm so lost in nowaday history talk. It is so wrong... So forgetting heroes sucrifice...what a rabbit hole to nowhere...
You did not watch the full video did you.
And I think any good Pole will say … we indeed were so always be great for our Jewish brothers and sisters. Although, I dont think comparison to Germans is right one and even painful. I admire your father took courage to visit Poland and change his mind and opinion about our country. He deserves a big hug from us and I am grateful he openly spoke up about his feelings. I feel he is a good man and it was so good to watch and listen to him speaking. I wish all your family members including yourself, your wife and your children to feel really like at home in Poland 🇵🇱. Our country deserves to be a welcoming one open and brave in listening to any voices and we finally as well have a right to defend ourselves tell our Polish story as we see it and as we experienced it through generations. We don’t have to have the exact opinion about this country what matter is we respect it’s people and want to all live in peace. I’m very happy I discovered your podcast here. I will follow you and support as much as I can.
Make your mind up, is it from love to hate or from hate to love?
Hate to love. Sorry. Changed the title.
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@@lerubenfeldthanks.
Very moving and wise discussion. Thank you!
Thank you! Very interesting perspective!
Germany distorted history also
Wonderful interview. Thank you and your father . Enjoy your stay with your dad and your family . Best wishes and happy Pessah.
Thank you so much!
Could you make part two to continue.